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Topic: Who do you consider the Dai Vernon of mentalism?
Message: Posted by: LoveKey1988 (May 16, 2014 07:30AM)
Who in mentalism do you consider the equal of Dai vernon in magic?
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (May 16, 2014 08:54AM)
No one. There was only one Vernon.
Message: Posted by: cirrus (May 16, 2014 09:54AM)
I can tell you the Richard Osterlind of Mentalism though... Richard Osterlind.
And the Bob Cassidy of Mentalism... Bob Cassidy.

These 2 gentlemen will give you enough material to perform and think a lifetime.
Message: Posted by: Philemon Vanderbeck (May 16, 2014 10:25AM)
No love for the Maven?
Message: Posted by: Rogerbest (May 16, 2014 06:04PM)
Dai Vernon of mentalism.........Ted Annemann.
Message: Posted by: MichaelCGM (May 16, 2014 06:19PM)
Richard Osterlind - because of his diverse approach and his exhaustive teaching contributions to the craft.
Message: Posted by: davidmag (May 17, 2014 02:25AM)
[quote]On May 16, 2014, Rogerbest wrote:
Dai Vernon of mentalism.........Ted Annemann. [/quote]


What he said.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (May 17, 2014 05:13AM)
Peter Turner is the Dai Vernon of mentalism.
Message: Posted by: robwar0100 (May 17, 2014 06:38AM)
Philemon,

I think one of the reasons you will find a lot of love for Bob and Richard here is that they interact with us. Richard not as much anymore, but he still pops in now and again.

Also, look at the kinds of releases in which Bob and Richard have been involved: Their DVDs include their whole acts. They have not kept their best stuff back for themselves.

Max Maven is an incredible actor, performer and creator of magic, but most here don't have the same level of access as we do with Bob and Richard.

Bobby
Message: Posted by: robwar0100 (May 17, 2014 06:44AM)
Now, on to the original question, I like what Tom Cutts said about this in that Dai Vernon was one of a kind.

Who do all of the great mentalists of today look up to? Who do all of the rising mentalists turn to? Who is the mentalist that every other one has a story about? Which mentalist is sitting in a club every night continually working on his craft, entertaining others, reminiscing about the good ol' days and teaching others?

I don't know who the person is.

Bobby
Message: Posted by: Jerskin (May 17, 2014 03:41PM)
Dai did mentalism, he was the first to have cards thought of and not "picked".
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 17, 2014 05:14PM)
Actually, there is an entire chapter in Erdnase devoted to determining a thought-of card.
Message: Posted by: landmark (May 18, 2014 03:09AM)
It might help to define what is meant by being the "Dai Vernon" of a field.

To me, Vernon's place of importance in magic is because of his:

1) Teaching and mentoring.
2) Insistence that methods and performance could and should be refined until they appeared absolutely natural.
3) Feeling that fields outside of magic (in Vernon's case, gambling in particular) could provide fruitful avenues of investigation for the magician.
4) Passion that magic was worth caring about.
Message: Posted by: lopike (May 18, 2014 03:13AM)
Richard osterlind for his contributions to teaching the craft.
Message: Posted by: rjbullock (May 19, 2014 12:44PM)
Osterlind, definitely. I can think of no other mentalist who has produced even 1/2 of the teaching material Richard has. Granted, Richard didn't create all of the material he teaches, but neither did Vernon.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 19, 2014 02:53PM)
[quote]On May 19, 2014, rjbullock wrote:
Osterlind, definitely. I can think of no other mentalist who has produced even 1/2 of the teaching material Richard has. Granted, Richard didn't create all of the material he teaches, but neither did Vernon. [/quote]

While I certainly don't claim to be the Dai Vernon of anything, I think that my published output over the last forty years is rather substantial (as is my good friend Richard's):

Releases include:

61 eBooks exclusively at Lybrary.com
2 hard backs from H&R (Both volumes of The Artful Mentalism)
1 hard cover from Collector's Workshop (The Art of Mentalism)
numerous contributions to Magick, Magic Magazine, Invocation, Vibrations, etc.
1 softcover from Bob Lynn (My 1st book, Pseudomentally Yours, in 1978)
2 DVDs at Meyer Yedid (Mental Miracles and The Black Box)
8 exclusive Teleseminars from Marketplace of the Mind
6 exclusive eBooks at Marketplace of the Mind
Billet Killers from Penguin Magic
and at least a dozen physical products, including the Master Mentalists Blindfold, the Hanussen Switch Bag, Test Conditions, impression devices, the PW23 PocketWriter, et al)
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (May 19, 2014 03:14PM)
Thank you professor.

Caling someone a master of their craft takes time - flavors of the year and month come and go.

To call a newer on the scene mentalist in a class with the likes of a "Dai Vernon" makes little sense.

You have to look at someone's entire body of work over many (20-30) years to make that kind of opinion.

Just because some flavor of the year performer is talenetd and cutting edge this year does not mean they will necessarily stand the test of time.
Message: Posted by: innercirclewannabe (May 19, 2014 03:15PM)
I never really understood these comparisons. Ultimately, we are all individuals, De facto - unique. The comment regarding number of releases is not really a benchmark either, particularly in this day & age when new releases are almost suffocating! There is no question that Richard Osterlind & Bob Cassidy have released material that any serious Mentalist should be familiar with. Another giant in this area is Max Maven. Point being, all three(3)are individual and unique, as we all are. Drawing comparisons IMO, is a futile exercise.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 19, 2014 04:09PM)
I agree. The number of releases is not a benchmark as quality is always more important than quantity. The only reason I even brought it up was because the post I was responding to was hardly accurate.
Message: Posted by: Richard Osterlind (May 19, 2014 06:48PM)
I feel equally uneasy with threads like this. Although I am very flattered to have my name brought up, comparisons and competitions are really not what the art should be about. There are so many creators I admire, but Bob's books sit on my shelf right beside Annemann and Corinda. (literally)
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 19, 2014 07:38PM)
Besides- neither Richard or I smoke cigars and Vernon couldn't sing. :eek:
Message: Posted by: John C (May 19, 2014 09:34PM)
[quote]On May 19, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Besides- neither Richard or I smoke cigars and Vernon couldn't sing. :eek: [/quote]


Hey Bob PM me I want to send you some words.

J
Message: Posted by: MichaelCGM (May 19, 2014 10:03PM)
[quote]On May 19, 2014, Richard Osterlind wrote:
I feel equally uneasy with threads like this. Although I am very flattered to have my name brought up, comparisons and competitions are really not what the art should be about. There are so many creators I admire, but Bob's books sit on my shelf right beside Annemann and Corinda. (literally) [/quote]

While I agree that the art, itself isn't about comparisons and competitions, one's legacy is something that others bestow upon those who work diligently and faithfully to elevate the art and to both maintain the quality and the integrity of the art they love. One’s legacy, like one’s beauty, is in the eye of the beholder and cannot be self-achieved. Thanks again, Richard for your love of and contributions to mentalism.
Message: Posted by: guitarmagic (May 25, 2014 05:11PM)
I admire, support, endear, venerate and enjoy the works and performances of ALL the great performers aforementioned as well as others not mentioned here, living and dead. GREAT is GREAT . . . period. Beyond them being performers and even more importantly: THEY ARE GREAT PEOPLE!!! And I am open-heartedly thankful and grateful to you all for sharing your works. You are all champions.
Message: Posted by: MentalistCreationLab (May 25, 2014 06:13PM)
[quote]On May 19, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]On May 19, 2014, rjbullock wrote:
Osterlind, definitely. I can think of no other mentalist who has produced even 1/2 of the teaching material Richard has. Granted, Richard didn't create all of the material he teaches, but neither did Vernon. [/quote]

While I certainly don't claim to be the Dai Vernon of anything, I think that my published output over the last forty years is rather substantial (as is my good friend Richard's):

Releases include:

61 eBooks exclusively at Lybrary.com
2 hard backs from H&R (Both volumes of The Artful Mentalism)
1 hard cover from Collector's Workshop (The Art of Mentalism)
numerous contributions to Magick, Magic Magazine, Invocation, Vibrations, etc.
1 softcover from Bob Lynn (My 1st book, Pseudomentally Yours, in 1978)
2 DVDs at Meyer Yedid (Mental Miracles and The Black Box)
8 exclusive Teleseminars from Marketplace of the Mind
6 exclusive eBooks at Marketplace of the Mind
Billet Killers from Penguin Magic
and at least a dozen physical products, including the Master Mentalists Blindfold, the Hanussen Switch Bag, Test Conditions, impression devices, the PW23 PocketWriter, et al) [/quote]

Lets not forget the other hundred or so marketed and non marketed products/effcet that you have contributions in or have worked on or consultated on over the many years.

Now Bob I would not go as far as saying that your a Vernon of mentalism or anything like that after all there is only one Vernon but I will say your contributions to the art of mentalism are of paramount importance to the art as a whole. As there is only one Vernon there's only one Bob as well. I don't think I could handle two of you anyway.

So I jsut really wanted to say thank you again for all your help in the past not only for the works of mine you assiasted with be helping me keep ground in tradition aspects but for all of your help in the art of mentalism as a whole. -Bill Montana

PS I still think 39 steps should be a sticky at the top of the Penny section of this forum. And I also still think it should be expanded and I not changing my mind about that.
Message: Posted by: Doc Ben (May 26, 2014 08:34PM)
[quote]On May 18, 2014, landmark wrote:
It might help to define what is meant by being the "Dai Vernon" of a field.

To me, Vernon's place of importance in magic is because of his:

1) Teaching and mentoring.
2) Insistence that methods and performance could and should be refined until they appeared absolutely natural.
3) Feeling that fields outside of magic (in Vernon's case, gambling in particular) could provide fruitful avenues of investigation for the magician.

I would not rule out including "The Professor's" character, humor "wrankling" attitude and presentation.....when considering who today is "the Dai Vernon of mentalism". I only saw him twice perform and lecture in person, and several times saw and heard recordings, but IMHO as a totality, there is no one since "like Dai Vernon"...!
:worry: :righton:
Message: Posted by: bdekolta (May 27, 2014 12:53AM)
Well Vernon's printed output was far less than many today. But people trying to make the comparison probably don't understand what Vernon was about. Trying to explain that is a bit tough. In my opinion there isn't a Vernon of mentalism. Or magic for that matter today. But the Annemann connection may be the closest. Except that Annemann published a lot as opposed to Vernon. If you didn't know him and what he was about it is difficult to understand.

If you saw Vernon "twice perform" then you were doing pretty good on that front. He really wasn't a performer. Some people like to argue that point but it is true. He was a silhouette cutter. Doesn't mean he never performed but it wasn't that frequent of an event.

I bring that up because most of the people mentioned for being his replacement are performers.

Annemann wasn't much of a performer either. Didn't like doing it. But he was a heck of a good writer.
Message: Posted by: Davidzajac (Aug 6, 2014 11:32AM)
There really is no comparison. Not even to Annemann because comparing what someone does to elevate his/her art with someone else is sure to be completely wrong. No one is the equivalent of another and, if you were comparing time periods that is still sure to be inaccurate.
Message: Posted by: IbiMania (Aug 7, 2014 03:33AM)
I will not compare to Dai Vernon but what is being perceived by some as Dai here, I will use that perception for comparison.

legendary performer: Dunninger
legendary teacher: Tony Cordina
Classic both: Anneman
Message: Posted by: Sven Rygh (Aug 7, 2014 11:21AM)
[quote]On May 17, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Peter Turner is the Dai Vernon of mentalism. [/quote]
You don't know what you are talking about.
Message: Posted by: Lior (Aug 7, 2014 03:15PM)
I think that Max,Bob and Richard are the big 3.
They are giving for the art for so many years.
Amazing

Lior