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Topic: ROPS
Message: Posted by: Mirokai (Jan 15, 2004 01:35AM)
Let talk about ROPS. This is the kind of sleight that we don't discuss to often and I think it is a shame because is a great technique! So here are some questions?
First of all: do you know this move? Do you use this move in your routines? How often? What do you think about it? Who invented it?

Personally I think itís a great move (some times it even fools me when I do it in front of a mirror) that I use a lot but I think itís a difficult move to achieve that needs a lot of practice to get the right timing, however when you get itís just awesome!
I donít know who the author is, bout I want to know it (this is one of the mean reasons why I do this thread;))

Message: Posted by: Slightly Offhand (Jan 15, 2004 02:01AM)
The ROPS is a fantastic move, extremely deceptive, invented I believe by Dr Rubinstein. It requires impeccable timing to do convincingly. I use it often, but I don't think think it should be discussed in a forum like this...It takes only a little bit of information to know exactly what this sleight is...of course it is difficult to replicate without having seen it performed...which may lead to poor replication being performed...Anyway, that's just my view of it.
Message: Posted by: Dan Watkins (Jan 15, 2004 02:13PM)
Read all the threads [url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/search_results.php?search_id=c623991c2ace5cfc7f332340ab1667f8]HERE[/url] for the ROPS move.
Message: Posted by: twistedace (Jan 15, 2004 02:52PM)
NOT a fan of it. I just think that it looks too obvious sometimes. I've fooled magicians in the course of routines with it but as far as laypeople they can sometimes retrace what happens. His fingerless retention vanish is much better taught on the Knockout Coin Magic DvDs.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 15, 2004 07:05PM)
I like the version in Discoverie of Witchcraft. Also works in a spectator's hand. : note bene... it was the good doctor who cemented the connection between the basic idea and the retention of vision timing technique.
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Jan 15, 2004 09:28PM)
I made my reputation in the 80's with the R.O.P.S. move. Until I released it on video, it had been kept strictly underground, shared with only the top close up guys. Its all about the timing. If you don't have the timing down, it will look obvious. Only practice will get you the timing, even though the mechanics aren't that hard. Good luck!
Message: Posted by: fonda57 (Jan 16, 2004 12:40AM)
I think ROPS is fantastic. Im going to devote some serious practice time to that and the fingerless rentention vanish. I really like those knocout coin magic videos.
Message: Posted by: thimblerig (Jan 17, 2004 03:33PM)
Actually, I have a write up of ROPS in a set of your lecture notes from the 80's, significantly pre-dating the video description. Looking forward to picking up the dvd's soon to see it actually performed.
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Jan 17, 2004 06:07PM)
Yes, the notes predated the videos, but they were mostly sold in Europe. Thanks for the kind words.
Message: Posted by: owen.daniel (Feb 27, 2004 07:19AM)
Chris Korn has some great ideas for usig the R.O.P.S vanish.
What does it actually stand for?
Message: Posted by: Mike Powers (Feb 27, 2004 08:14AM)
I can attest to the deceptiveness of this move since Michael FOOLED the heck out of me with it at the New York Magic Symposium in the early '80s. I had no idea what happened. I only learned what was recently on Chris Korn's lecture tape. I haven't tried to master it, but I'll bet it isn't easy.

Message: Posted by: Yves Tourigny (Feb 27, 2004 08:53AM)
Daniel, I think that ROPS stand for Retention Open Palm Steal. Ever since I saw this technique when Videonics put them in on video, I have practiced and used them a lot. Many of the techniques that I saw on these videos I use regularly which is more than I can say about any materials, whether written or visual.

The bonus was, and probaly still is, that very few magicians know about it. As for the laymen, the ROPS technique are guaranteed foolers. I am pleased to see that someone like Chris Korn uses these techniques wisely, even though it means that they will be known by too many people. ;)

Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Feb 27, 2004 09:07AM)
When your routine has you putting stuff onto your hand ... the ROPS is context appropriate.

This is the kind of thing that updates the older moves using a wand.

IMHO a great idea and a good tool to have.
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Feb 27, 2004 01:23PM)
It's a fantastic tool. I use it professionally in two routines, and have found no other vanish that works better at certain points in those routines.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Feb 27, 2004 02:46PM)
The very first time I ever did a decent retention, was after practicing the moves taught on that old Videonics tape (vol 4) of Mike Rubinstein's Mastering Coin Magic series...I could never find the first 3 vol's, so I settled for that. Glad I got that, as Roth and Ammar were my only coin authorities, and Mr. Kaufmann's book was never conveniently available to me. Bobo's book has been my main tome, but video-wise, I now MUST obtain that 3 vol DVD Encylopedia set of his...the other DVD (KNOCK-OUT COIN MAGIC SPECIAL EDITION DVD) is a must have...but don't tell too many people! Need SOME exclusivity! LOL!

Message: Posted by: owen.daniel (Feb 28, 2004 05:35AM)
Thanks, I have been wondering about that for some time.


P.S. My name is Owen, Daniel is my surname. Just pointing it out, I get that mistake a lot!
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Feb 28, 2004 07:00PM)
Ditto, Yves! Thank you!

I had been saying it was called, "Rubinstein's Open Palm Steal"...I stand corrected...glad you posted that!

Message: Posted by: Brian Morgan (Feb 28, 2004 09:12PM)
I love the ROPS move and since we're on this topic and I was watching the Encyclopedia of Coin Sleights (again) and wanted to tell Dr. Rubinstein that I love his move, the Rubinstein Toss. I have been using a HPC-CPH Sankey routine and will definitly be putting your move into my routine.
Message: Posted by: Darrin Cook (Feb 28, 2004 11:38PM)
When I first saw ROPS, I discounted it. Then I came across a problem in a coin trick. I spent days kicking around options, until it finally occurred to me --ROPS.

Most coin vanishes are either false "puts" (i.e. retention vanish) or "takes" (i.e. French drop). ROPS is neither. It is a move that I think should be in the vocabulary of every coin worker. Chris Korn uses it to great effect, vanishing a coin on the offbeat.
Message: Posted by: owen.daniel (Mar 1, 2004 02:15PM)
I found a description of the ROPS vanish in MAGIC Magazine. it is quite an old copy (2 or 3 years ago, maybe more). it is called the Retention Open Palm Steel, and I had never made the connection that this was the ROPS vanish till this weekend. To think I have been searching for a description for so long and it has been right under my nose!
If anyone wants to know which issue I found it PM me.
Message: Posted by: Karl Miller (Mar 1, 2004 06:04PM)
I just started working on the ROPS move. I am learning it from one of Chris Korn's new DVD's. It is hard to learn, but it looks fantastic when performed correctly. Chris does a great job of breaking down the move into steps.
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Mar 1, 2004 07:58PM)
The R.O.P.S. move was published in Magic magazine, without my knowledge or permission. The text was basically lifted from my lecture notes. Before that the magazine printed two other moves of mine from my DVD series (then tapes), submitted by OTHER (unknown by me)people with their name on the moves (along with mine, and misspelled!) as well!! I still have no friggin idea who those people were, and why they chose to print my moves without my permission. I asked the head of the column where my unauthorized work appeared, and he gave me a very lame story about trying to protect my proprietorship of the R.O.P.S. move by printing it on his own before someone put out a similar move.
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Mar 1, 2004 08:07PM)
Unfortunately, magic can be a cesspool.

I've said it many times publically, your R.O.P.S. move is TOPS. Before the release of the Korn DVDs, I think he and I (and of course you) were among only a handful of magicians performing the move, and for selfish reasons I almost wish nobody else knew about it. It's extremely powerful and I'm grateful that you created and shared it.

Larry D.
Message: Posted by: Bob Kohler (Mar 2, 2004 11:33AM)
First of all I'm extremely happy to see my long time friend Michael Rubinstein not only back in magic but finally getting some long overdue respect for the work he's done to give all of us some really powerful weapons to use.

ROPS fooled the heck out of me when Michael first demonstrated it to me. It's a totally deceptive move when done with correct technique and proper timing. One facet I believe that is often overlooked is adding Ramsay Vanish technique. By that I mean the performer should control where the audience is looking.

If you study Ramsay (and everybody should) you'll discover the real secret to his vanish was his interaction between timing, choreography of the move and where he placed his attention.

I find that if I look at the coin on my open palm during the first part of the reveal, the audience looks at the coin too. Next I look up at the audience as I do ROPS. The audience looks at my face but still sees the hands in their frame. This idea takes a little heat off of the move so if your timing or technique is slightly off it will still work.

ROPS is a hot topic right now, but if you love coinmagic you really need to investigate Michael's body of work. Many overlooked ideas that should really be more in the mainstream...
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Mar 2, 2004 06:51PM)
Gotta chime in here,

Roth, Ammar...they're great...great routines, great sleights. Why do I like Mike Rubinstein's videos so much?


He shows you the effect, then the method...over and over. No ego, no "frills", no fancy segues...just "the facts, ma'am"...the "over the shoulder" camera angle is perfect. I can slow it down and do it frame by frame...I learned more from Mike's one tape (vol. 4 of Master Coin Technique, pgm 89, Videonics), than all the Roth and Ammar tapes combined...no exaggeration.

Another thing I like is the fact that it seems filmed at home, people talking and laughing in the background. It gives an "informal" air to the teach-in. It just feels right. I have no feeling that Mike is "showing off" or "pumping up", so to speak...

Mind you, I'm NOT slamming Roth, or Ammar, I regard them as top performers/teachers...it's just that Michael Rubinstein seems like a "guy like me", and is very thorough, and detailed in his presentation. To say he is a master performer, would of course, be redundant.

I cannot say enough good things about him, and it GALLS me, that someone would attempt to hijack his material. I've always called it, "Rubinstein Open Palm Steal", and Mike...I hope you don't mind...I'd like to make that official...That's the way I will refer to it from now on. It's only fair...it's YOURS, it should have your name on it.

I'm bound and determined to own every video that bears Mike Rubinstein's name. Even if I have to eBay my record collection! LOL!

Just call me a true fan! :bg:

Message: Posted by: Brian Morgan (Mar 2, 2004 08:55PM)
I second everything you just said. The Ency. of Coin Sleights has all the moves necessary to become an accomplished magician. Thanks for the great set of dvds Dr. Rubinstein.
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Mar 5, 2004 06:54AM)
I don't mean to be argumentative, but in my opinion it takes MUCH more than moves to become an accomplished magician. I think Michael Rubinstein would agree. My comment has nothing to do with the quality of his material, because as I've said before, I think it's great and I personally use the ROPS move.