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Topic: Paint job on steps for cane cabinet.
Message: Posted by: TheMagicOfLuke (Jun 15, 2014 12:09PM)
Hi, I was wondering if I should have the steps to the cane cabinet or abbott's "girl vanish" painted completely black or just the trim black. Thanks, Luke.
Message: Posted by: TheMagicOfLuke (Jun 15, 2014 02:33PM)
Also, the canes all have bar codes on them and I want to get them off without damaging the wood or paint. Does anyone know how I could do this? Thanks, Luke.
Message: Posted by: MentalistCreationLab (Jun 15, 2014 03:57PM)
[quote]On Jun 15, 2014, TheMagicOfLuke wrote:
Also, the canes all have bar codes on them and I want to get them off without damaging the wood or paint. Does anyone know how I could do this? Thanks, Luke. [/quote]

If its just a sticker use a hair dryer to soften the glue then the sticker should pull free. Just go slow heat up the sticker and pull a bit then reheat.

If its a type of printed on barcode first you need to know what finish is on the cane.
A mild soap and water could work but it the finish is shellac it will spot. If its shellac use denatured Alcohol. Its hard to say without knowing the finish on the canes if the wrong cleaner is used on the wrong finish it will cause issues.
Message: Posted by: TheMagicOfLuke (Jun 15, 2014 04:28PM)
I used a hair dryer and they peeled off mostly and then finished it up with some WD-40 to get rid if the residue. Thanks for the reply!
Message: Posted by: TheMagicOfLuke (Jun 15, 2014 05:49PM)
Does anyone know if I should do all black or just the trim or if it matters? Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 15, 2014 06:45PM)
To take the sticky stuff off left behind by a label, you use a product called "Goo-Gone" purchased at any hardware store.

No, I would not recommend the steps to be painted black. Better to paint them in contrast with your cabinet, blue, red, whichever color is least used on the cabinet design. Don't forget those none skid/slip strips from the home improvement store, they can save a serious accident from happening. I hope you put some design on walls, it creates interest and holds attention. I tis to bad that Abbott's is selling Paul Osborne plans in place of their own plans. I think they put all their planes in a book. They have more detail.
Message: Posted by: TheMagicOfLuke (Jun 15, 2014 07:44PM)
I had them painted white with black trim. The black is flat to make the steps look thinner. For the design should that be painted or something extra added on? Thanks, Luke.
Message: Posted by: TheMagicOfLuke (Jun 15, 2014 07:50PM)
Sorry about the blue tape but here's the panels as they are now. I plan on keeping the black and white color scheme throughout the rest of my illusions, but I won't make them plain black and white, I'll add something to each one. Thanks, Luke.
Message: Posted by: TheMagicOfLuke (Jun 15, 2014 07:52PM)
It didn't post the first time so here's attempt 2
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 15, 2014 09:58PM)
In my opinion, and it is only my opinion, is that the white will get very dirty looking on the steps very fast. You will be constantly painting them.

I posted the drawing of the trick from Abbott's as that shows an artistic design. You can do something like that in black and white if that is what you like. Just make some stencils from stencils card and spray paint the design on them.

If you put some of the non-slip strips on the steps that may be enough to make the steps look more like steps.
Message: Posted by: TheMagicOfLuke (Jun 15, 2014 10:10PM)
I'll work on some stencils soon. Thanks for all the help, Luke.
Message: Posted by: illusionman2 (Jun 16, 2014 04:54AM)
Illusion -- ORIENTAL MYSTERY
http://www.magicauction.com/Mag_auc/illusion.htm
this is the way I would paint the steps.
Message: Posted by: Thom Bliss (Jun 16, 2014 09:41AM)
My two cents worth: You want the steps to be one dark dull color.

You don't want to call attention to the steps. They should be, in the audience's mind, just something to allow somebody to climb onto the raised platform or into the box. It's better if they don't even notice them, or forget about them immediately. The less they think about them the better.

White and pastel colors, and bright (gloss) colors both call attention to themselves and make things look bigger, while dark, dull (matte) colors look smaller and are less likely to be noticed.
Message: Posted by: magicwatcher2005 (Jun 19, 2014 09:27AM)
The structural design and the paint scheme on those steps is possibly the worst you could have used. The black frames with the white center panels make it look like exactly what it is - one big hollow box. Even the least mechanically inclined spectator will be reminded of every hollow packing crate they've ever seen.

The stair treads need to be thick, and overhang the front and sides of the structure by a couple of inches. They'll be hollow where it counts (of course) but should appear to be heavy solid lumber stock. 2 inches "thick" would not even come close to overkill, and the audience will subconsciously assume the first step is as solid as the top step appears to be, so even with the closed support sections it would "eliminate" the possibly of one big hollow center section.

The "solid" stair treads should be a dark color and the support section a different color. Personally, I would make the treads a medium-dark brown and the support sections black - suggesting the treads are solid stained lumber and the supports are plywood painted black.

For added deception the toe-kick panels should each angle back toward the bottom, suggesting the idea of angled "shelf supports" under each tread. A very slight angle - 10 to 15 degrees - will go a long way toward misleading the spectators' minds.

You probably won't rebuild them, of course, but you should if you want to fool anyone over the age of 10.

.
Message: Posted by: TheMagicOfLuke (Jun 19, 2014 07:39PM)
Thanks for the advice! These are the actual steps from the Osborne plans, which I tried to base mine off of structurally. What are the main differences between mine and these? Are these also wrong? Thanks, Luke.
Message: Posted by: TheMagicOfLuke (Jun 19, 2014 07:40PM)
Here's another angle of mine.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 20, 2014 01:47AM)
Luke, obviously Magicwatcher2005 doesn't own or even have built this illusion, he advice is totally outrageous. Making inaccurate comments on an illusion without taking the effect and routine into account is totally incorrect thinking. Look up the illusion and find out what the effect is, before making any recommendations. Please!

As far has having the stairs a dark color, is very dangerous for the magician and assistants. Shadows on stage can be cause big accidents. What terrible comments.

Luke, you do what you like, if it does not work, it is easy to repaint the areas you find troublesome. You have done a fine job from your pictures.
Message: Posted by: magicwatcher2005 (Jun 20, 2014 03:27AM)
As usual, Hegbli goes looking to start a fight with a personal attack.

The Osborne designs are often "quick and dirty" when it comes to things like bases and steps, and what is pictured above looks exactly like what it is - a hollow crate. If you think that will fool the average audience then go ahead use it; most audiences are polite enough to not boo even when the secret is quite obvious.

Hegbli IS right about one thing: feel free to build whatever you want, Luke. Most magicians fool themselves more than anyone else anyway. On the other hand, if you want to see a good example of how design (rather than just a paint scheme) can be used to make a load space look like separate entities - and therefore NOT hollow - see the below image.

http://www.magicauction.com/Auction_L_Pics/dollhouse_l46980.jpg
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 20, 2014 07:46AM)
And magicwatcher2005 fools himself into thinking he knows what he is even talking about, once again. No fight here, just trying to set the excellent young man he is doing good, and not listen to someone that has no experience. You have to reference an auction site, really! Some expert you are, lets see your self built cane cabinet illusion, with you in front of an audience standing beside it, then I may think you have an ounce of credit.
Message: Posted by: magicwatcher2005 (Jun 20, 2014 11:36AM)
Yeah, listen to Bill Hegbli - he's a "[i]Graduate of Chavez School of Prestidigitation and Showmanship[/i]" (lol), and an expert on how they did it two centuries ago... so he still thinks that's good enough. Goes right by 'em, huh Bill?
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jun 20, 2014 12:16PM)
Settle down gentlemen. Save the nit-picking for another forum. We try to keep the Workshop a positive place. We "construct" things here. We don't "destruct" them.

Regarding Luke's steps... the design is not the best. The easiest fix would be to reverse the colors. Draw the eye to the thinnest part of the prop, not the part you want to hide.

Even better would be to eliminate the vertical trim. It adds size to the dimension that you want to downplay.

Better still would be to not have the steps the same color scheme as the cabinet. It makes it appear as if it is part of a whole. Keep the cabinet bright, but let the steps recede, as if they are unimportant.

The photo of the Osborne steps shows me one glaring fault. They are designed to look like a crate, yet you may never in your lifetime see a crate that looks quite like that. If I was charged with making such a set of steps to look as if they are just a crate, I would take that design and turn it into two crates, one atop the other. I would probably even position the top one to appear slightly askew, and might even go so far as to have the top one shift a bit so as to REALLY appear to be a separate piece. As with the example given above of the Doll House, divide the space optically.
Message: Posted by: TheMagicOfLuke (Jun 20, 2014 03:23PM)
Thanks! I will most likely build a new set of steps, or just repaint. Thanks for all the help, Luke.
Message: Posted by: TheMagicOfLuke (Jun 20, 2014 03:27PM)
I came across this video and it looks like I have a pretty similar design and color scheme to his. It looks like his trim is thinner and the front of his steps are black though.

http://youtu.be/Am3Thew6P10
Message: Posted by: TheMagicOfLuke (Jun 20, 2014 03:29PM)
In this video the steps have thin trim and are painted completely black.

http://youtu.be/vm8V-gkhrIA
Message: Posted by: magicwatcher2005 (Jun 20, 2014 08:40PM)
[quote]On Jun 20, 2014, Michael Baker wrote:
Settle down gentlemen. Save the nit-picking for another forum. We try to keep the Workshop a positive place. We "construct" things here. We don't "destruct" them.

Regarding Luke's steps... the design is not the best. The easiest fix would be to reverse the colors. Draw the eye to the thinnest part of the prop, not the part you want to hide.

Even better would be to eliminate the vertical trim. It adds size to the dimension that you want to downplay.

Better still would be to not have the steps the same color scheme as the cabinet. It makes it appear as if it is part of a whole. Keep the cabinet bright, but let the steps recede, as if they are unimportant.

The photo of the Osborne steps shows me one glaring fault. They are designed to look like a crate, yet you may never in your lifetime see a crate that looks quite like that. If I was charged with making such a set of steps to look as if they are just a crate, I would take that design and turn it into two crates, one atop the other. I would probably even position the top one to appear slightly askew, and might even go so far as to have the top one shift a bit so as to REALLY appear to be a separate piece. As with the example given above of the Doll House, divide the space optically. [/quote]

Thanks Michael. I always appreciate it when a skilled builder agrees with me completely.

.
Message: Posted by: blamobox (Jun 29, 2014 08:07PM)
Luke,

Check out some of the photos online of 'Deceptive steps'
Also, check out some of the Osborne illusion system books and Rand Woodbury"s work.

Study how a 'normal' staircase is built and how it looks.

If the risers are a matt Black and the steps overhang it can all be very deceptive.

The steps should look incidental, they are not part of the illusion.

I hope this has been of some help.