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Topic: First success with hypnosis
Message: Posted by: seamagu (Jun 17, 2014 06:34AM)
Hi all,

After a few failed attempts I managed to bring someone into hypnosis and went through a few phenomenon with them. From hand lift to hand stuck to face to laughing outrageously and back into a relaxed trance. It was quite an amazing experience for me and the hypnotee. The hypnotee said they felt brilliant afterwards and had a great nights sleep just as I had suggested!!
Can't wait to do more,

Sea
Message: Posted by: Nico (Jun 17, 2014 06:36AM)
Nice... how did you start hypnosis?
Message: Posted by: seamagu (Jun 17, 2014 07:28AM)
I did magnetic hands and then used a kind of relaxation with deep breathing and counting backwards till they got confused. It worked really well and was quite fast. Once I got a hand floating up I knew I had them under.
Message: Posted by: insight (Jun 17, 2014 04:50PM)
Congrats, hypnosis is not too difficult once you get the hang of it.

Regards,
Mike
Message: Posted by: Jesse Lewis (Jun 18, 2014 10:30AM)
Bravo Seamagu for taking the first steps towards becoming an awesome hypnotic performer we all started somewhere welcome to the club.

Jesse
Message: Posted by: seamagu (Jun 18, 2014 01:36PM)
Thanks guys,

I just can't wait to do it again and try for even more interesting phenomenon,

Sea
Message: Posted by: insight (Jun 19, 2014 09:42PM)
Please keep us updated, Sea!

Regards,
Mike
Message: Posted by: Ben Seatreader (Jul 5, 2014 02:13PM)
Is it a good idea for the beginner to have 'outs' as it were? Perhaps a ct as a backup just in case?
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 5, 2014 02:22PM)
Outs? Hypnosis isn't magic? How is a CT a backup for hypnosis? Perhaps you don't have an understanding of hypnosis?
Message: Posted by: innercirclewannabe (Jul 6, 2014 01:33PM)
[quote]On Jul 5, 2014, Ben Seatreader wrote:
Is it a good idea for the beginner to have 'outs' as it were? Perhaps a ct as a backup just in case? [/quote]

Your post makes no sense at all? In regards to "outs" - that would depend on the routine you were doing, but I am at a loss to think how you can equate this question to Hypnosis.
Message: Posted by: Jesse Lewis (Jul 6, 2014 02:23PM)
Hi Benseatreader

In hypnosis there are no outs. It truly is you and nothing else and it really should be presented that way as well.

Jesse
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 6, 2014 06:23PM)
Magician's thinking.
Message: Posted by: seamagu (Jul 7, 2014 05:30AM)
OK, so I had another go yesterday. I tried an instant induction which worked as I got a hand lift, hand stick with open eyes and even a small visual hallucination of a butterfly. I tried to make up a post hypnotic suggestion on the fly but it was so crappily delivered and stupid that the hypnotee started to come around so I just went through the wake up procedure. I then tried on a guy, I could not even get a hand lift but went through the wake up process and he said he felt good.

I found the instant induction did not get them as deep a the last time doing a count down. Also I was not as prepared myself and it was sprung on me yesterday afternoon

Thanks,

Sea
Message: Posted by: seamagu (Jul 7, 2014 05:35AM)
Forgot to mention I had a failed name amnesia with the first hypnotee which shook my confidence a bit.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 7, 2014 10:01AM)
Actually it is quite easy to build outs into a street hypnosis routine. If the hypnosis works, great. If not, then you blend seemlessly into another routine. No problem. Perhaps instead of criticising someone who knows less than you, and flexing your mighty egos, some of you might think before you post.
Message: Posted by: The Forgotten One (Jul 7, 2014 10:19AM)
I remember my first time when I was newbie in hypnosis. My first time was horrible and I read everything straight from the paper and didn't know how to observe my "test subject" or anything at all.
He didn't respond very well as you can guess. I stepped away from hypnosis for some time and it destroyed my self-confidence.

I started newly, I read everything what I could find. I read 5-10 books (try library!) before I dared to try hypnosis again. After that, I was very sure I knew enough about everything and how hypnosis work and I could do it, but still, it was new situation for me and I had very bad experience (IMHO) in my shoulders.
Next session went a lot better! It wasn't a lot in visual or entertainment way, but it was a lot for me! I gave coins in my subject hand and told him not to give them back to me. I hypnotize him and just asked him to give the coins for me (with finely planned words) and he gave them to me. After that sun was shining for me.

I went even through the hypnotherapist course to build more self-confidence and know better what hypnosis is and what all I could do with it. It was fun course, but I already knew pretty much everything from the books.

But in the end. Reading books and learning what hypnosis is, is only one part of the trade. And it is important part where everyone should be starting. After that you must start to practice it and practice a lot. You must build your self-confidence as hypnotist. You must learn who you are as hypnotist (what you can do, what you like to do, what are your weak spots and so on. Not everything fit for everyone!) When you trust yourself, others will (more likely) also trust your skills.
Now after 10 years I'm still newbie in hypnosis, but I know I can hypnotize anyone who I want and when ever I want (as long as they are co-operative!) Of course not everyone are able to see visual hallucinations and if they don't go "deep" enough I don't even try those things. I just work with what I have in my hands during that moment. (I'm not stage hypnotist, so I don't send "weak subjects" back to their seats.)
Message: Posted by: MatthewSims (Jul 7, 2014 02:11PM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2014, TonyB2009 wrote:
Actually it is quite easy to build outs into a street hypnosis routine. If the hypnosis works, great. If not, then you blend seemlessly into another routine. No problem. Perhaps instead of criticising someone who knows less than you, and flexing your mighty egos, some of you might think before you post. [/quote]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with having outs in hypnosis when presented as a form of entertainment. It's comforting to know that you have a safety net to fall back on and will boost your confidence, which will in turn aid in the success of the hypnosis piece.

By having an out, it allows me to relax and focus on the hypnotic techniques that I must deliver. If their hand sticks, wonderful. If not, I segue into staging the entire thing as an experiment in unconscious communication. I pull out a swam* and say...

"I was actually trying to send you a number..." sort of thing.

This sure beats saying..."Now TRY as hard as you can to UNSTICK your hand"...and then they clearly lift their hand up.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 7, 2014 02:48PM)
Sure, a swami* is part of every good hypnotists performance!
Message: Posted by: innercirclewannabe (Jul 7, 2014 02:50PM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2014, TonyB2009 wrote:
Actually it is quite easy to build outs into a street hypnosis routine. If the hypnosis works, great. If not, then you blend seemlessly into another routine. No problem. Perhaps instead of criticising someone who knows less than you, and flexing your mighty egos, some of you might think before you post. [/quote]

Don't know if you directed that post at me, however, for the record - " a mighty ego" is something I do not have. If it wasn't directed at me then I suppose it is a "mighty lack of observation" I suffer from.
;)
Message: Posted by: innercirclewannabe (Jul 7, 2014 02:55PM)
By the way, keep at it Seamus and you'll find the more you do it, the easier and more automatic it will become. Remember, it is more about how you present it and yourself than the hypnosis itself.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 7, 2014 03:19PM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2014, MatthewSims wrote:
I pull out a swam* and say...
[/quote]

It was this I was referring to.

I'd say it is the "mighty lack of observation" you suffer from.
Message: Posted by: innercirclewannabe (Jul 7, 2014 04:09PM)
On the contrary, it is your "observation skills" that are awry. I wasn't even answering your post, rather,it was my reply to TonyB - hence me quoting him with my reply.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 7, 2014 05:56PM)
My post was not aimed at anyone specifically. Just the general !@#$%iness that is a feature of these pages, where everyone knows everything and puts down the newbies. The Café is supposed to be about magicians helping magicians, but this section seems to be about hypnotists sneering at hypnotists.

Hypnosis is more and more popular, but this section sees very little activity. Read the typical replies to posts and you will know why.
Message: Posted by: MatthewSims (Jul 7, 2014 06:55PM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2014, Mindpro wrote:
[quote]On Jul 7, 2014, MatthewSims wrote:
I pull out a swam* and say...
[/quote]

It was this I was referring to.

I'd say it is the "mighty lack of observation" you suffer from. [/quote]

What lack of observation am I suffering from?
Message: Posted by: Jesse Lewis (Jul 7, 2014 08:20PM)
And the fighting starts, good job Seamagu keep going soon it will be second nature.
Message: Posted by: MatthewSims (Jul 8, 2014 07:01AM)
I'm not trying to "fight", more of a fencing, if you will. Just intellectual conversation in which our thoughts my be brought to light a little better is all I'm looking for.

I would like to see where my observation has failed me, as Mindpro says.

Kindly
Matthew
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 8, 2014 07:07AM)
Take your pick - believing sticking someone hand to anything is hypnosis, or using a swam*.

There is a difference between actual performance hypnosis and claiming something is hypnosis when its not but rather a magic or mentalsim trick. I go back to my original sentiments - there are no outs in hypnosis, outs are in magic.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 8, 2014 03:28PM)
[quote]On Jul 8, 2014, Mindpro wrote:
There is a difference between actual performance hypnosis and claiming something is hypnosis when its not but rather a magic or mentalsim trick. I go back to my original sentiments - there are no outs in hypnosis, outs are in magic. [/quote]
If you are doing a stage show - as you and I prefer to do - then there are no outs. But if you are doing impromptu hypnosis to learn the ropes, it is easy to create routines that can go into hypnosis if that is working, and that can go a different direction if the hypnosis is not working.

I learned hypnosis by taking the plunge and doing stage shows, but the modern way seems to be to start with street hypnosis and one on one stuff. And that leads to inevitable failures. So it is no harm to build in a safety net. Once you begin doing stage shows, the safety net has to disappear.

I remember one of my first stage shows, in a small pub. The room was bad, the sound system was bad, and I was not expected, so I knew it would be a very tough night. So I prepared an hour of solid mentalism as a fall back. As I was leaving the house, I looked at the mentalism show, and knew that if I brought it, I would use it. So I left it at home.

The show was tougher than I imagined. But I got a panel hypnotised, and I gave the crowd a good laugh. That would not have happened with a safety net. Still, I see no harm in a safety net for beginners doing one on one stuff.

The very first time I did one on one hypnosis I had an invisible deck in my pocket. When I failed to get as far as I wanted, I told the subject that this was all part of a process of tuning our minds into each other, and I moved into the invisible deck routine. After the experience I sat down and figured out what went wrong, and I have not needed an out since. It is just part of the learning process, like stabilizers on a bicycle.
Message: Posted by: seamagu (Jul 8, 2014 03:44PM)
So far I have not used an out, I've been keeping my mentalism and my hypnosis experiments very seperate. if it does not work I just discuss the experience and the participant agrees that they were very relaxed and that it was a pleasant experience. I tell them that that is the main thing and maybe next time they will experience an even deeper level of relaxation
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 8, 2014 03:57PM)
[quote]On Jul 8, 2014, Mindpro wrote:
There is a difference between actual performance hypnosis and claiming something is hypnosis when its not but rather a magic or mentalsim trick. I go back to my original sentiments - there are no outs in hypnosis, outs are in magic. [/quote]
If you are doing a stage show - as you and I prefer to do - then there are no outs. But if you are doing impromptu hypnosis to learn the ropes, it is easy to create routines that can go into hypnosis if that is working, and that can go a different direction if the hypnosis is not working.

I learned hypnosis by taking the plunge and doing stage shows, but the modern way seems to be to start with street hypnosis and one on one stuff. And that leads to inevitable failures. So it is no harm to build in a safety net. Once you begin doing stage shows, the safety net has to disappear.

I remember one of my first stage shows, in a small pub. The room was bad, the sound system was bad, and I was not expected, so I knew it would be a very tough night. So I prepared an hour of solid mentalism as a fall back. As I was leaving the house, I looked at the mentalism show, and knew that if I brought it, I would use it. So I left it at home.

The show was tougher than I imagined. But I got a panel hypnotised, and I gave the crowd a good laugh. That would not have happened with a safety net. Still, I see no harm in a safety net for beginners doing one on one stuff.

The very first time I did one on one hypnosis I had an invisible deck in my pocket. When I failed to get as far as I wanted, I told the subject that this was all part of a process of tuning our minds into each other, and I moved into the invisible deck routine. After the experience I sat down and figured out what went wrong, and I have not needed an out since. It is just part of the learning process, like stabilizers on a bicycle.
Message: Posted by: Gordon the discombobulator (Jul 8, 2014 06:25PM)
My very first success at hypnosis was rather strange.
I tried an induction on someone in a pub. Went through all the classic induction speel... count back from 5 to 1... open your eyes.. won't think you've been hypnotised.. but if I say the word SLEEP you will close you eyes and return to this deep level of sleep.

I counted back and she woke up and giggled... it had not worked (again)
For a laugh I said SLEEP, clicked my fingers and no response from her... but her friend suddenly fell deeply asleep.
I somehow hypnotised the wrong person without even realising. I thought the other person was just having a laugh, but no it was a real deep hypnotic trance.
Message: Posted by: MatthewSims (Jul 9, 2014 04:41AM)
[quote]On Jul 8, 2014, Mindpro wrote:
Take your pick - believing sticking someone hand to anything is hypnosis, or using a swam*.

There is a difference between actual performance hypnosis and claiming something is hypnosis when its not but rather a magic or mentalsim trick. I go back to my original sentiments - there are no outs in hypnosis, outs are in magic. [/quote]

I'm not saying swam* work is hypnosis. I don't perform with a swam* and present it as hypnosis. Of course there is a difference there. I'm saying such tools can be used as an out for when first beginning the learning curve. It keeps you from standing there with you know what in your hand.

As for saying "there are no outs in hypnosis, only in magic" is a subjective statement. That's along the same lines as "mentalism shouldn't be mixed with magic". I just don't understand for the life of me where these "rules" come from. Is there some man behind a desk with a feathered fountain pen writing these? The beauty of hypnosis is that it has an ability to, at any time...take flight into a new direction.

Unlike singing and music, where there must be organization and structured rhythm to follow along with it, hypnosis is much like a bird. It hops from branch to branch. It can fly off, change directions, come back again. Enrique would call this the "language of the birds".

I now go back to eating my ice cream with a fork.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 9, 2014 07:04PM)
Good post, Matthew.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 10, 2014 06:41PM)
I used to practice inducing arm catalepsy while doing palm readings. The sitter never knew I was even doing it. I used to practice conversational hypnosis that way too.


But it wasn't stage hypnosis I get what Mindpro is saying. I also get what Mathew is saying.

In my opinion "outs" are ok for practicing certain things. But for using hypnosis as a full on performing medium outs are no good. Unless your a magician but that's another subject.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 11, 2014 02:42PM)
MP, I am with you. On a stage you should have no outs. In different settings, different rules apply though.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 12, 2014 09:39AM)
I understand the "annoyance" of some hypnotists though when magicians try and turn hypnosis into a cheap trick. Or tell the public they have been hypnotized to forget a card when in fact all it was was a double lift etc. I doubt most of the public buy into these types of routines as being hypnosis anyway.

These types of "outs" should really be in another forum.

Personally these days I couldn't care less I am taking hypnosis in a completely different direction its unlikely I will be doing any stage work.
Message: Posted by: quicknotist (Jul 12, 2014 08:24PM)
Well, as you're usually one of the first to tell people they shouldn't be posting here if they don't do stage hypnosis, I guess you won't be around here for much longer.

[quote]On Jul 12, 2014, mindpunisher wrote:
Personally these days I couldn't care less I am taking hypnosis in a completely different direction its unlikely I will be doing any stage work. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 12, 2014 09:37PM)
In reality you haven't been doing much stage work at all have you?
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Jul 13, 2014 01:13PM)
That's right Reg Im hardly around here at all these days as it is. And yes Danny I do very little stage work these days. It is very unlikely I will do stage work again I don't need to. Ive moved on to something a lot more interesting....and a lot more lucrative at least for me. Still using hypnosis though. Although those years doing stage were a good grounding I wouldn't change them

Still its nice to drop in and see the lovely people in here on the very odd occasion..

Still as charming as ever..

Not many people about to sell courses to on here these days eh Reg? Still I guess its worth hanging around to make the odd piece of pocket money... everything adds up I suppose.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Jul 13, 2014 01:42PM)
MP, some of us appreciate your acerbic wit, and miss you when you are not here.
Message: Posted by: quicknotist (Jul 13, 2014 02:26PM)
Hilarious.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 13, 2014 02:33PM)
He will never leave.
Message: Posted by: ELDEMONIO (Jul 18, 2014 11:54PM)
I believe Kenton Knepper has "outs" for hypnosis (not magic or mentalism related). By out I mean that if the hypnosis doesn't work then there's still some type of apperant hypnosis for the audience and is achieved through some other method besides actual hypnosis.

Let's suppose a person did not forget their name through a demonstration of amnesia. One could easily do, as an example, 100th monkey to get the proper effect. Note that this is not a magic trick or mentalism effect for the audience. It is still in the realms of hypnosis. Heck the participant might even believe he really is hypnotized after this. I suppose this might be what an out in hypnosis might look like.

However, I agree with the sentiment that Mindpro stated firstly. There's no outs in hypnosis it either works or doesn't. In the case above, the hypnosis did not work and was masked with a trick that still looks like hypnosis and the show continues.
Message: Posted by: Marmen (Jul 19, 2014 05:41AM)
Actually outs are very good for stage hypnosis. Almost essential in fact. Not having outs in a stage situation can lead to some very pitiful disasters. I have no idea about close up hypnosis (whatever on earth that is) though, although I suspect it can be a good idea here too.

And no. Hypnosis NEVER works! It just appears to and of course that is good enough.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jul 21, 2014 12:12AM)
[quote]On Jul 19, 2014, Marmen wrote:
Actually outs are very good for stage hypnosis. Almost essential in fact.
[/quote]

I would love to hear what these outs are that you speak of that are good and essential. Hypnosis outs, not magic outs. Please share.
Message: Posted by: Marmen (Jul 21, 2014 04:35AM)
Oh, I have done already. I am talking about stage hypnosis. You really need to have outs if people are refractory or not cooperating. You don't want to have a bad night with only one or two people hypnotised. Or even none at all. I know you can do some sort of show, and even occasionally good ones with a tiny few volunteers but I don't find it satisfactory or reliable. I prefer to have a few more good subjects than just one or two. And if nobody is a good subject you need an out for it. I do believe I have the best one but I prefer not to share it on an open forum. I did so once before on here but on reflection I should probably have kept quiet as this place comes up in search engines. And in any event most hypnotists don't like my system and would prefer to stand up there looking like a lemon for an hour or so. No skin off my nose.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 21, 2014 07:57AM)
Welcome back Mark.

Your system is idiotic. Having one or two subjects can be fantastic. The audience does not know what you are going for in the first place.
Message: Posted by: Marmen (Jul 21, 2014 10:21PM)
I have no idea who Mark is. However, my system is NOT idiotic. It is the height of genius actually. Yes, having one or two subjects can be fine and I have done shows with that many. However, every hypnotist including yourself has had occasions when things go south. Sometimes the one or two subjects are pathetic and everybody else is even worse. The best thing to do in that case is to wake everybody up and try again using my system which I can assure you is quite foolproof. As I say other hypnotists have occasional disasters and shows which are not up to par. Not me. At least not any more since I have adopted this system. I have turned potential disasters into standing ovations using this wonderful idea.

If other stage hypnotists want to stand up there struggling like a lemon and looking pathetic that is up to them. Not me. I know what I am doing and will use any method to gain the reaction. But then some of us have it and some of us don't...............
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 21, 2014 11:05PM)
Yea handing out cards that say"play along" is idiotic. Sorry.

Especially if you are working for a company that all the participants know each other. You may think you get by with it but when they talk later, and they will, you are the but of the joke.

But keep using your system. The only question is do you sell the blinders that are needed to be that delusional?

61 posts and counting. Not bad.
Message: Posted by: Marmen (Jul 22, 2014 07:51AM)
I have no idea what Danny is talking about regarding cards that say "play along". He must be confusing me with someone else.

I shall merely say that if you work for a company and stand there for an hour dying a death they will talk about that too and you really WILL be the butt of the joke! No. You MUST have an out when doing hypnosis shows. What that out may be is up to you. Danny has an "emergency show" so he must believe in outs too. I do believe and in fact KNOW that I have a far better out than that. No delusion when you get standing ovations from shows that would go down the tube in the hands of others.

In any case Danny is talking nonsense as he often does about people talking afterwards. Strangely enough they don't. And do you know why? Because the method makes them go into GENUINE hypnosis however you define it!

I am the expert in these matters and I really think Danny should listen to me if he wishes to progress. I do know that I actually made him change his mind about one thing in his show. He once admitted it to me with gritted teeth! It must have been hard for him to do that! Perhaps he might even admit that I am right in this case one day. Of course by then I will be dead and gone so I might as well take joy now while I have the chance in the fact that one day he will change his mind.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 22, 2014 10:10AM)
No you are an idiot in this matter Mark.
Message: Posted by: Marmen (Jul 22, 2014 10:50AM)
Mark, whoever he is may be an idiot but I am certainly not. I have used this system MANY times and it works like a charm. You seem to be an expert in something you haven't actually tried. I have and it works perfectly. Still, I am quite happy for others not to do it. I may as well keep it exclusively to myself while the rest of you struggle with refractory subjects and hit or miss hypnosis shows. I never miss and always hit. I have never had a bad hypnosis show in the last ten years I have been doing this. Before I tried it I would get trouble in one out of ten shows. Just like the rest of you in fact. No more. But then some of us are born to lead and some of us are born to follow.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 22, 2014 12:13PM)
Some are born with delusion. You seem to have plenty.
Message: Posted by: Marmen (Jul 22, 2014 06:01PM)
I put it to a vote. Who is more deluded? Me or Danny? After all he recommended "How to Win Friends and Influence People". Either he is a very bad student or he has deluded himself that he is a good one!