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Topic: Magician's choice help
Message: Posted by: _Trickstar_ (Jun 30, 2014 01:15PM)
Hi this is my first time posting on these form and I've loved magic all my life and I've only recently got into it again, but I like to perform this one trick which is based on Daniel Garcier's iCard effect but I have my own variation on it, instead of performing the trick how it's meant to be done I use the magicians force to force the card, it normally goes like this:
(im forcing King of hearts)
ME: you can have red or black
Spectator: black
ME: ok we will get rid of black and were left with red, so you can have hearts or diamonds?
Spectator: Hearts
Me: ok we'll get rid of Diamonds and were left with Hearts, You can have high cards or low cards?
Spectator: Low cards
Me: ok we'll get rid of low and were left with high cards that's 7,8,9,J,Q,K of hearts, would you like face cards or number cards?
Spectator: number cards
Me: ok we'll get rid of number cards and were left with face cards, pick 2 from J,Q,K?
Specator: J,Q
Me: okay we'll get rid of them and were left with the King of hearts, that was a completely free choice, we kept some cards and got rid of others until we were left with the king of hearts
then go on to finishing the trick by revealing the predicted card

(No matter what they pick I'm always keeping the king of hearts in play)
i feel its a bit long though and some people catch on that I'm manipulating there choices

so I was wondering is that kind of patter okay for the magicians force, could it be improved? or is there a better way to force 1 card out of 52 without a pack of cards?

Your Knowledge is much appreciated
Message: Posted by: greerj (Jun 30, 2014 02:38PM)
If you'll seach for magicians choice in the search function under the magic Café sign, pages and pages of (mostly) helpful hints will come up. You can also look for Max Maven's Verbal Control as a source.
Message: Posted by: _Trickstar_ (Jun 30, 2014 03:04PM)
Hi greerj thanks for replying, I have already searched for the magician's choice but only found bits of information, the information I have found has only been for forcing a couple of object where I'm trying to force just 1 card from 52 choices, I will definitely look up Max Maven's Verbal Control where can I get hold of it?. will I find a better way of forcing a card? As for the script is there any improvements that could be made?

Message: Posted by: RobertlewisIR (Jun 30, 2014 03:35PM)
I don't want to discuss methods too much in this section of the forum (when you get 50 posts, you'll have access to a section where methods are discussed more freely). But what I will say is that the absolute key to this principle upon which it will either succeed or fail completely, is the linguistic choices you make. If it's a choice of two piles of cards, for instance, I wouldn't say "choose a pile." Instead, I would say "hand me a pile." That way, there's an ambiguity about what the decision is actually all about.

Feel free to send me a private message if you want more of a detailed answer or help scripting yours, since I'm not really comfortable saying much more in a public forum.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jun 30, 2014 03:56PM)
Definitely what Robert said. Lose the "you can have..." and it will flow much smoother. The fewer the "choices" the better as they can catch on rather quickly if you change tactics between each "choice"
Message: Posted by: _Trickstar_ (Jun 30, 2014 04:07PM)
Thanks very much, I understand what you mean, what could I replace "you can have" with? and in regards to the fewer choices the better, the trick requires 1 card from 52 and that's the only way I could think of narrowing down the forced card, would it be better to alternate between saying that "we'll get rid of..." and "we'll will keep..."?
after ive talked about the prediction I would normally say, " so I want this to be a free choice, we will get rid of cards until were left with one and that will be your chosen card" then move onto the magicians choice.

Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jun 30, 2014 04:35PM)
Good luck in "improving" Garcia's work. His subtleties are diabolical.

If you know the rough position in the deck, just have someone cut the cards and pick up the half with your force card in it. (one verbal force eliminated)
Cut again if you're sure of the location in the upper or lower half (two verbal forces eliminated) You're now down to a much more manageable 10-20 cards.

Can the cards be seen by you? If so, fan the remainder face up, and spot your card. If not, mark the back. Look up PATEO force at this point and proceed from there.
Message: Posted by: _Trickstar_ (Jun 30, 2014 05:13PM)
Dave, I'm trying not to give anything away about Garcia trick since I'm a huge fan of his tricks,but the trick doesn't use a deck, the summery of the trick would be a card is thought of, card is pulled out of phone, the elimination process is done verbally, if you search icard on youtube and watch garcia performance you'll no what I mean, the way I do it I don't use a deck of cards,i have the force card awalys setup so it's impromptu, I just want to try and improve the way I do it?
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jun 30, 2014 07:01PM)
I just watched two Garcia videos. One is simply another "reveal" different from "Card in Can" or any other folded card routine only by using a phone graphic as the "container". The other, cardless reveal is way too powerful to dilute with a simple elimination force. Learn his routine before trying to modify it.
Message: Posted by: _Trickstar_ (Jun 30, 2014 07:20PM)
I've already learnt his routine, I just prefer my way for it's simplicity but Thanks for all the advice, ill definitely take it all on board as I'm constantly trying to find ways to improve my technique and patter.

Thanks for all the replies
Message: Posted by: MRSharpe (Jul 3, 2014 07:41AM)
There are better forces to use for the purpose of forcing a single card than Equivoque (Magician's Choice). Breaking it down to that many steps can't help but sound contrived, especially when want them to choose, say black, and they choose red. Then you must set their choice aside and the process is exposed.
Message: Posted by: _Trickstar_ (Jul 4, 2014 06:09AM)
What better forces are they? they have to be forces without a deck? atm that's all I've got. if you could point me in the direction where I could learn different and better techniques it would be much appreciated, but I think the magician's choice is all I've got at my skill level, I recently got the devils picture book by Derren brown, it had some good information, sadly I don't see my self being able to pull it off and get them to think off the right card everytime. I'm thinking into looking at get max mavens duplicity is that any good?
Message: Posted by: MRSharpe (Jul 4, 2014 10:33PM)
PM me and I'll point you in the right direction.
Message: Posted by: Ben Seatreader (Jul 5, 2014 10:16AM)
Docc Hilford's E'voque is very subtle when it comes to the 'choices' of the spectator.It serves not only as a trick, but an adaptable system. If you ever want to use the magician's choice principle in areas other than cards you know where to look.
Message: Posted by: gr81disp (Jul 7, 2014 01:48PM)
The issue you have is setting these false limits on how you want the trick to work. Use a deck of cards to force one or carry an invisible deck as an out. They name the King of hearts, great! They don't, whip out the ID and say, "It's funny you mention that particular card, as earlier today I turned one card in this deck backwards from all the others..."
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jul 7, 2014 05:21PM)
You seem to be missing the point that DG's iCard *is* a force. Change that, and you might as well be doing something else.
Message: Posted by: edshern (Jul 19, 2014 03:38PM)
Look up Hotel 52
Message: Posted by: Kanawati (Jul 19, 2014 11:41PM)
I really enjoyed this example from Dan Harlan:
Message: Posted by: jeffAwesome (Mar 13, 2018 12:52PM)
I would also like to recommend dropping certain phrases. I believe that every single phase has to be presented with confidence and no round of choices can repeat. There are loads more thoughts from smarter men than I including Eugene Burger, Max Maven, Joshua Quinn, Joshua Jay, David Berglas, Peter Turner and so so many more. If you'd like more direction I can point you in the direction of some of their publications... but a quick search should point you in the right direction .
Message: Posted by: 1KJ (Jul 28, 2020 09:37PM)
I didn't read every response, but think about using different phrases for different selections. There are so many ways to make it seem like you are not manipulating them.

I would suggest Hotel 52 by David Regal. It is almost exacetly what you are looking to do, but he has crafted the decisions into carefully selected words and using psychological tricks that 99% of people will fall for. Also, at the end, he has a real free choice which makes the whole thing seem like it was free choices.

Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Aug 1, 2020 05:27PM)
I've taught my "handling" of magicians choice in quite a few of my books. I'll prepare for screams about my ego here, but I really don't care...at my age I just care about telling it like it is --- I've been told over the decades, many, hundreds of, times - that my handling of same is the best out there.
Ya' gotta' start reading the good stuff, guys!!

A suggestion you may be interested in - who knows? Go to my new magic website, thanks to my daughter-in-law, Elizabeth. scroll down a bit at that first page and you'll see the information of that very expensive ($14.95) new e-book of mine, MORE JAW DROPPERS. One of the effects included is Secrets Of Five -- which teaches my handling of magicians choice for five items, three items, etc.

While you're at the site, even if you don't buy anything, you van still enjoy some stuff. Click on "Videos" and you'll see choices of videos of my last appearance on The Tonight Show, with Johnny Carson, me doing my magic square, scroll down and the video from my 90th birthday party. And, if you click on youtube near bottom of the paragraph you'll be able to see some performances of close-up card magic which, who knows, you might enjoy.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Aug 1, 2020 05:31PM)
That website is --- harryloraynemagic.com .
Message: Posted by: edshern (Aug 1, 2020 07:26PM)
Harry, your magical reputation precedes you. I don’t know you from Adam, but as a self promoter
I have never seen the likes of you before. So you’re right though, to he__ with everyone, you go get em,
and I may even buy your book!
You have earned the right to blow your own horn.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Aug 2, 2020 08:01AM)
Seems as if the "horn blowing" is being done by you. I just try to help - and if you checked out what I'm telling all it might help you stop doing the"blowing." So to repeat:

I've taught my "handling" of magicians choice in quite a few of my books. I'll prepare for screams about my ego here, but I really don't care...at my age I just care about telling it like it is --- I've been told over the decades, many, hundreds of, times - that my handling of same is the best out there.
Ya' gotta' start reading the good stuff, guys!!