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Topic: Re: Exposure in Penny
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 2, 2014 09:36PM)
To those who insist on exposing mentalism methods in this forum. Feel free to post this link after any post that exposes methods here in Penny:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AHZmP15rs0
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 2, 2014 09:43PM)
Come to think of it, that would be a great way to handle hecklers.:eek:
Message: Posted by: Nathan Pain (Aug 2, 2014 10:40PM)
Beautiful! Just beautiful!

Nathan
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Aug 2, 2014 10:56PM)
When Men were Men!!!! :nana: :cowboy:
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Aug 2, 2014 11:10PM)
One of my favorite shows of all time. If I remember correctly, Ralph had tickets to a hit Broadway show that was a murder mystery. His mother-in-law, the blabbermouth, suddenly gives away the ending of the play and who is the murderer. A BLABBERMOUTH!!!

Greg
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 2, 2014 11:16PM)
Yep, that's the episode. The entire thing is on YouTube, but I just wanted that one brief segment because it expressed my thoughts regarding exposure in Penny.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Aug 2, 2014 11:41PM)
I love that episode!

How about this TV classic when you feel like screaming:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pe1RNFhIiE
Message: Posted by: C.J. (Aug 3, 2014 12:41AM)
He even does the eyes from your smiley, Bob! :eek:
Message: Posted by: Suffolk (Aug 3, 2014 02:50AM)
Well I've often thought the easy solutions would be to take the entire site off Google search using robot txt
Message: Posted by: zinser (Aug 3, 2014 05:27AM)
I think Suffolk's suggestion is actually a wonderful one. If I weren't so new here I would post it on the See the Manager section myself. However, I suspect that the management here are very much against this otherwise they would have done it earlier. It is their site and we must respect that. However, I must say that I do agree with Bob. I must say that I have never worried very much about exposure in the past even with TV exposure such as the Masked Magician etc; I figured that people would forget the explanations within a week. However, lately I have been quite bothered by exposure of secrets on the internet generally (not just the magic Café) although I have heard spirited defences of it by well known magicians (especially the younger ones). I have to say that it does bother me though and I feel that apart from the exposure aspect it trivialises both magic and mentalism to a large degree. I just can't get used to it I am afraid.
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Aug 3, 2014 05:56AM)
Exposure of any sort is despicable and totally against the spirit of the art but I fear the genie is well and truly out of the bottle. As soon as a magician has raced through a store-bought mentalism effect on AGT the chat rooms and YouTube comments have exposed the name of the effect. We even had someone on here ask for the name of the losing the power to read effect performed on AGT and members actually told him!

One doesn't like to pine for the good old days, and the cross-pollination of ideas enabled by the Internet has led to some brilliant effects- but the smooth is arguably outweighed by the rough.
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Aug 3, 2014 05:58AM)
Great clip, I think we should deal with exposure in a similar manner to that which was used in the gaffer thread.
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Aug 3, 2014 06:49AM)
The Honeymooners was brilliant. I could never understand why it wasn't a bigger hit in the UK like I Love Lucy or The Phil Silvers show.
Message: Posted by: B. Morrison (Aug 3, 2014 09:13AM)
Although exposure has been around since at least 1584, I doubt if any of the practitioners since that time have been subscribers to the "it makes our craft stronger because we have to come up with new and better methods" argument.

I'm a big believer in Omerta and its accompanying consequences.

.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 3, 2014 11:38AM)
Go to the Right or Forum where you'll actually find one new member who's been going on for weeks about his idea that exposure is okay- even to an audience you're just performed for. His idea seems to be that since people want to know how its done, its good entertainment to show them.


I think I'll post this link there.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 3, 2014 11:49AM)
[quote]On Aug 3, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Exposure of any sort is despicable and totally against the spirit of the art but I fear the genie is well and truly out of the bottle. As soon as a magician has raced through a store-bought mentalism effect on AGT the chat rooms and YouTube comments have exposed the name of the effect. We even had someone on here ask for the name of the losing the power to read effect performed on AGT and members actually told him!

One doesn't like to pine for the good old days, and the cross-pollination of ideas enabled by the Internet has led to some brilliant effects- but the smooth is arguably outweighed by the rough. [/quote]

You seem to be fixated on AGT. Years ago, when I worked in a magic shop, the same thing would happen after a magician appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show or after a Doug Henning or David Copperfield special. The VERY NEXT DAY, the phones would be ringing off the hook with calls from people wanting to know the names of the effect that were performed and where they could be purchased.

Same with the David Blaine, and other specials, that are seen today.

That's one reason why I never perform ANY effect that has just been seen on national TV. Why would I want to? So I could be remembered as the guy who does the same thing as "that guy on television?"
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Aug 3, 2014 12:47PM)
You may be right Bob. I am a little fixated by mentalism on AGT. Same as you are fixated, rightly, on exposure on a searchable forum. I consider AGT performances and YouTube performances of other's effects a kind of exposure by proxy, or indirect exposure. I think the difference with Henning et al, apart from the instant exposure of the Internet, is that they were/are magicians. As a kid I was aware you could buy magic tricks (they sold them in the local market) but when Berglas performed it didn't cross my mind that he was performing tricks. He had powers! A slightly foreboding aura. I didn't dream you could learn that stuff from a book. He clearly had an innate gift. You could tell from his posture, his voice, his eyes! Or take Bob Cassidy. Funny, yes, but in a lightening sharp, slightly dismissive way that suggests a superior intellect-entirely capable of the effects he is producing.

But now, with non-descript, perfectly normal, agreeable kids reading minds on YouTube and AGT, the mystique of mentalism is in danger of disappearing.

But I'm aware that I am repeating myself and the nurse is demanding I take my medication, so I'll try to temper my exasperation at the state of the art. :)
Message: Posted by: Trickstar (Aug 4, 2014 12:15AM)
[quote]On Aug 3, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Go to the Right or Forum where you'll actually find one new member who's been going on for weeks about his idea that exposure is okay- even to an audience you're just performed for. His idea seems to be that since people want to know how its done, its good entertainment to show them.


I think I'll post this link there. [/quote]

I know the guy you mean Bob, I've given up arguing with the bloke and for the life of me I cannot figure out his angle - he hasn't really posted on any other topic... I actually got to the point of thinking that he wasn't here out of any genuine interest or background in magic or mentalism and just wanted to practice arguing.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Aug 4, 2014 12:33AM)
Who are you guys talking about?
Message: Posted by: Scott Soloff (Aug 4, 2014 12:43AM)
Martin,

You're absolutely right. My father used to say that and a dime will get you a cup of coffee (tells you how long ago that was).

My thinking is simple, I run my own race. I want to be the best mentalist that I can be. And, by that I mean performer. To the best of my knowledge, AGT and Youtube has not interfered with my ability to entertain an audience.

Not once has someone comment that they saw that same 'trick' on TV or the internet. And if that does happen some day, so what?

They still gasp; jaws drop and they whisper among themselves. Oh yeah, they applaud.

Do I like the present state of affairs. Hell no. But it ain't going to stop me from doing what I love to do and giving it everything I've got.

Enjoyed our little chat.

Best wishes, as always,

Scott
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 4, 2014 12:43AM)
Brett- This guy:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=519090&forum=177&30&start=0#29
Message: Posted by: Scott Soloff (Aug 4, 2014 12:49AM)
First time I saw that.

Is it flaming to call someone an idiot? I suppose that it is.

Better to quote Einstein: The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.

Best,

Scott
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Aug 4, 2014 10:14AM)
Thanks Mastermindreader... never seen that person but quite irritating.

My take is that some in the tech field seem to gravitate toawrds the concept of total "open source" extending to everything. What is good for the Goose...

I have had my own run-ins with this much higher profile and well known Café member some months ago and I pretty much gave up as there was NO possibility of changing his mind - and similar to your guy he seems to actually feed off of the disagreement:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=502985&forum=218&start=150

Maybe the best thing is just to ignore these clowns. They probably aren't performing tp make a living - but rather see our art(s) as just another thing to disect and disseminate like computer code.

I just saw P&T's act a few weeks ago for the first time (even though I have met T a few times before) and I liked most of it.

There really isn't much in the way of *real* exposure - most of it is pseudo and many routines end with the unexpected twist which makes you forget what the supposed exposure was in the first place.

I wasn't wild about their book t**t routine as to me it dragged on (and on) and was pretty weak from an entertainment standpoint. Overall the highlight were the 1st routine and last, with some beautiful moments in the middle (especiallt the famous rose routine). Anyway, overall P&T provide a nice evening of Libertarian tinged entertainment that exposes almost nothing imo.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 4, 2014 08:29PM)
It puzzles me why trolls who openly support the exposure of secrets aren't permanently banned from the Café.

Guess how long this guy would last at my workshop.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 5, 2014 05:32PM)
I just checked and discovered this guy has well over the minimum posts required to access the secret sections of the forum.

He openly supports the public exposure of the secrets of magic.

What's wrong with this picture?
Message: Posted by: innercirclewannabe (Aug 5, 2014 05:52PM)
[quote]On Aug 5, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
I just checked and discovered this guy has well over the minimum posts required to access the secret sections of the forum.

He openly supports the public exposure of the secrets of magic.

What's wrong with this picture? [/quote]

Crazy stuff. I said it before, if this site was subscription based, it might deter some of these cretins from joining with their twisted logic when it comes to revealing secrets.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 5, 2014 06:30PM)
I called him out as a troll in the thread on Right or Wrong and he's decided to argue that as well.

I'm done with him.
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Aug 5, 2014 06:55PM)
**sigh**

I find exposure completely reprehensible. But I have to say that the YouTube link made me laugh out loud.

This guy isn't worth the time. I agree. Ignore him. Fires can't grow without fuel.

David.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 5, 2014 07:11PM)
I think it's disturbing, though, that people who openly advocate exposure are allowed to remain members here and are even able to access the hidden areas.

I certainly will think twice about posting anything of substance in the Banquet Room.
Message: Posted by: Trickstar (Aug 6, 2014 02:15AM)
[quote]On Aug 5, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
I called him out as a troll in the thread on Right or Wrong and he's decided to argue that as well.

I'm done with him. [/quote]

I get the feeling that what he is doing is part of some kind of assignment or class project on deductive logic or critical thinking and he will argue anything just for the sake of it.
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Aug 6, 2014 03:19AM)
Hard to believe such blatant trolling doesn't result in an immediate ban.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 6, 2014 04:10AM)
That's what is puzzling me. Why should I remain a member of a forum that allows trolls who advocate exposure to have access to the hidden forums?
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Aug 6, 2014 04:16AM)
I've created a post in "see the manager", asking this question...
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 6, 2014 06:05AM)
Looks like the problem has been rectified.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Aug 6, 2014 06:23AM)
Yeah, job done...looks like route one is the best way forward - report the offender, and/or PM mr scribner...
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Aug 6, 2014 08:04AM)
I think it's a shame the Café doesn't reconsider its policy towards entry to the inner forums. The 50 posts thing worked at first when building up a membership but it would be much better now to switch to a system where someone has to have been a member of the Café for a set length of time and contributed a minimum number of posts in that time. I'd say 2 years and 100 posts would sort out those committed to the art from the passing fad brigade.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Aug 6, 2014 08:21AM)
Don't discuss it here, post ideas and suggestions in the proper section��

the mods are too busy to read everything I reckon...

"i want to see the manager" section seems best...
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Aug 6, 2014 11:15AM)
[quote]On Aug 6, 2014, mastermindreader wrote:
Looks like the problem has been rectified. [/quote]

Se la vie
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Aug 6, 2014 11:29AM)
La vie! (Okay, I said it.)
Message: Posted by: Sean Giles (Aug 6, 2014 12:39PM)
I don't thing he was trolling. Is say he was a moron but that's way too disrespectful...


...to morons 👹
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Aug 6, 2014 12:59PM)
Someone who joins a magician's forum to argue in favour of exposure? I think he knew exactly what he was doing.
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Aug 6, 2014 02:36PM)
Has he actually been banned from the Café ?
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Aug 6, 2014 03:36PM)
It looks like it.
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Aug 6, 2014 05:46PM)
:-) :-) :-) :-)