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Topic: Is spooky more about sales?
Message: Posted by: reese (Aug 17, 2014 01:47AM)
My impression... comparing Penny to Spooky, it seems to me that Spooks is much more about marketing & sales than an honest discussion about something useful... beyond sales.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Aug 17, 2014 03:00AM)
It wasn't always, but that seems to be the way it is now. :(

There are some great threads here, but it seems that more than half of what is posted here concerns product announcements or are product/sales oriented. But this may not be the true situation.

It seems that the membership is drawn to the product threads and they get the most attention and stay near the top, this may be why it seems to be more product than anything else. This does not mean other topics are not posted, they are. But for the most part, they don't receive as much attention from the membership.

Let me put it this way, if the membership was not interested in the "product" topics, they would sink to the bottom and not be noticed, and the other types of threads would be more prominent and at the top do to large member involvement in them.

What we see is driven by member interest.

Tony
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Aug 17, 2014 03:39AM)
Another thing to keep in mind, we don't have a designated "product area" (Penny has Mentally Speaking), so everything gets posted here in Spooky.

Tony
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 17, 2014 04:06AM)
Sales, only sales. Yes.
A cultural thread is easy to recognize, you've only 2 or 3 comments.
Message: Posted by: KOTAH (Aug 17, 2014 11:58AM)
Spooky is all about sales.
If it weren't, we wouldn't be getting PMs from the head administrator,
dealing with availability of new releases from his good friends.

It is annoying to see the flashing sign saying I have a message, only to discover an unsolicited sales pitch.


But that is the nature of the beast.

Like it or leave it the only option other than not purchasing anything.


Kotah
Message: Posted by: Roth (Aug 17, 2014 01:42PM)
[quote]On Aug 17, 2014, reese wrote:
My impression... comparing Penny to Spooky, it seems to me that Spooks is much more about marketing & sales than an honest discussion about something useful... beyond sales. [/quote]
I see 5 product threads in Penny on the front page and 6 product threads front page here.

We have better toys :)
Message: Posted by: PROF BC (Aug 17, 2014 02:52PM)
While I do create products and discuss them here, I for one have always tried to keep posts focused upon usage and presentation as much as humanly possible. I have lost count of the number of routines and handlings I have posted on Spooky for props other than my own (whether currently 'for sale' or simply owned by another performer--be it a '7 keys' handling, an automaton needing a backstory, or any number of other bizarrist needs).

I note, too, that many of the 'sales' posts rapidly morph into handling and usage discussions, how to link the new product to other routines, and ultimately the thread evolves into a mini seminar in the art of shaping an act. That surely represents a very strong community spirit here on Spooky dedicated to the guiding spirit of 'magicians helping magicians'.

It also may simply be the nature of the beast that forums relating to bizarre, which is so very much about story surrounding artifact, will have a number of products on offer to take care of one half of that equation. We need artifacts--sometimes from the Bring and Buy sale or flea market, more often something specifically designed, loaded and ready to perform. This is a relatively young art form, and the props are, to some extent, struggling to catch up with the decades (even centuries) of development that other styles of magic props can boast.

Nevertheless, I for one have been more often than not informed and inspired by the writings on Spooky of Christian Chelman, Christopher Gould, Todd Landman, Jim Magus, Dr. Spektor, Michael J. Fraughton, MatCult, Roni, Doug Higley, Perkins, TH1, Steve Drury, and many, many (many!) others who had nothing to sell and yet much to say.

I'd have to say, then, (at least for me) Spooky is not 'mainly' about items for sale (though I am always intrigued and often thrilled to see what other creative minds are making). It is primarily about sharing ideas. Sometimes (not always) these ideas take the form of 'and you can own one, too.' For me, that is how our art form will grow and is growing.

Professor BC
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Aug 17, 2014 03:20PM)
I am curious to how some of the Creators and Members that do post threads in 'Spooky' about products, that can be discussed here ... seem to VANISH like magic !
Message: Posted by: Christopher Gould (Aug 17, 2014 04:19PM)
...some of us have different outlets to discuss our work and serve our customers.

Here is my take on things.
I do agree that a forum becomes what it's users want - to a degree. It also becomes what the dealers want too.

I think people here want to hear about new items that both big and small creators are putting out. However, I think most people (quite rightly) resent having the forum flooded with ads and then bumped up with 'wow that looks great' comments.

I used to make posts here on topics that I thought were of interest to the community, but I have stopped doing so as it seems quite pointless to spend time constructing an article or topic for discussion only to see it flooded out and relegated into darkness within a day of two. I am not pointing any fingers here. My own view is that the Café and spooky has become what it has become and this is what we have. So this is a good place to come to hear what latest stuff is coming out, not so good a place for evolved discussion. To some extent this is the nature of forums.

I am not blaming any other dealers for this state of affairs, I see it more as a natural consequence of the forum structure. Speaking as a dealer, I know the importance of exposure on here and other forums. On the whole, dealers seems to respect each others work here, and when we see dealers fighting to knock each others posts from the top slots it is both regrettable and thankfully rare.

In it's present form, I am not sure that this forum is the best way to give after sales content either, and for the same reasons. I, as well as fellow users, have put a tremendous amount of content linked to AM's catalogue on the moon and regularly give after sales advice to users. I would not do this here as it would appear that I was just attempting to bounce my own threads. Also, what would justify the investment of time if the thread will be gone in a day or two?
From a personal point of view, I am only one guy and between developing new ideas, writing, drawing the graphics, making the objects, keeping up with orders, contacting customers, parcelling stuff up etc.etc (you get the idea), I have very little time left over and this time needs to be spent wisely and to best effect. So I was going to say that I apologize for not being here that often, but I have laid out my reasons. There is certainly no lack of after sales support for AM's work, if you know where to look.
For the Café to work in the way that would allow both product announcements *and* in-depth discussion would mean that the forum would need to be restructured, with an area for both product announcements and one for discussion. As well some way to ensure that discussions are kept live and at the top of the page (there are many ways for a forum to achieve this). Another idea would be to organise the forum so that each active dealer had their own sub thread where they could effectively promote their work on an even playing field, as well as offer post sales support and discussion. This would give a good platform for dealers and a useful resource for customers, as well as freeing up the main forum threads for discussion of our art. This in turn would motivate people to contribute to such discussions. None of these things will happen.
So with what we have here, I think it is important to users that they can come in and find out about what the dealers are up to, but also leaves the dealers with an obligation not to enrage their customers and particularly their potential customers by abusing this. In a one section forum with no control over how threads are bumped to the top, it is a matter of balance and equilibrium, and we all have a part to play if we want to ensure this, don't we?
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 17, 2014 05:16PM)
Well, as it has been said sooner, if you want a cultural and useful thread, please participate.
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Aug 17, 2014 05:28PM)
Good thread. Personally I attempted to remove the 'sales' aspect from my own website, as well as refraining from 'selling' on the Café. However I did notice a misconception being posted about on the Café and tried to address it as succinctly as I could as well as answering a request (I get often) about something I used to offer in other's posts. On my own site I had to put a couple of effects back on because of having to answer constant questions and people thinking I croaked or something. Basically I am way out of sales mode...but not dead yet. :-)

There is that issue though of discussing effects and concepts in spooky (and elsewhere) that can be construed as giving up the secrets to the 'muggles'...a fine edge.

Any other thoughts I have were touched on nicely by Gould and BC...excellent posts! :-)
Message: Posted by: Dave Scribner (Aug 17, 2014 06:37PM)
Tony said it best in that what you see is driven by the members. We set up the forums and if members misuse them, the result is what you currently see.

Penny was set up for the general discussion of mentalism, not product reviews or sales.

Mentally speaking is solely for product reviews and not sales.

Spooky is for the general discussion of the bizzare and again not for sales.

All sales should be in the let's make a deal forums
Message: Posted by: Darkness (Aug 17, 2014 06:43PM)
Yes, I think you all summed it up nicely. I do enjoy the discussion of the new effects but it does get a little too focused and detailed. There is so much else to talk about. As long as great new effects are being offered it would be expected the discussion to be directed in those areas. It not wrong it actually makes sense.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Aug 17, 2014 07:15PM)
...i see it as more of people over-relying on the props that get released to provide the "wow" or the "eurgh" factor...rather than thinking for yourself...so much that is released and available to us, comes with a backstory - and thought that's fine, they are obviously themed...and for me, that spoils things...forces everyone's creativity down one particular road, and people have to create their own back alleys as a creative outlet...

should be the other way round...

spirit slates are yet to be 'branded', and look at all the stuff you can do with them, and how many different themes and angles you can explore with them...
Message: Posted by: Christopher Gould (Aug 17, 2014 10:41PM)
[quote]On Aug 17, 2014, Dave Scribner wrote:
Tony said it best in that what you see is driven by the members. We set up the forums and if members misuse them, the result is what you currently see.

Penny was set up for the general discussion of mentalism, not product reviews or sales.

Mentally speaking is solely for product reviews and not sales.

Spooky is for the general discussion of the bizzare and again not for sales.

All sales should be in the let's make a deal forums [/quote]

With all due respect, I would like to defend the dealers here to some extent. Bizarre magic is something of a unique phenomena. We have always held ourselves apart from mainstream magic, whilst paradoxically being closer to its roots. The problem with putting up information (and it should be information, rather than sales pitch) onto other sections of the forum is that there is a real danger that it would not be understood in a more generalised context. I would feel that I was sending a precious and rather delicate child off to a mainstream school where I would fear for its safety. The converse is also true. People in bizarre magic tend to have rather peculiar and somewhat focused tastes. We tand not to care too much for the latest and greatest in magic. I for one do not understand why anyone would bother to perform most of the stuff out there. (this reflects my personal tastes and is not an indictment of the potential value of making an Iphone appear in a coke bottle). So I would not go to this section of the forum, although perhaps I should. This problem arises from knowing that this is also true of my potential customers. Although I see your point, and I really do. There *is* a logic and a value to dealers letting people know about what they are doing here. It is an intimate family here, and we do not get out much. There is also value to be had in reading genuine and unsolicited testimonials from real customers. I want to know what the creative minds in our neck of the woods are up to, and I want to know what the genuine thoughts are of fellow travellers. I think we all feel that there is a place for this, and that this does not constitute abuse of the service. If this board turned into merely hype and stupid bumping of threads that preclude any other form of discourse, then it is a cause for concern. Frankly, sometimes this is evident. However, I sense a maturity here that is rare elsewhere. Dealers are responsible on the whole, and there seems to me to be an unwritten code of conduct. If you, as users do not contribute to hyping and bumping threads to the exclusion of all else, then I think there will be little cause for concern and we can all enjoy intelligent debate alongside having a convenient resource for keeping up to speed about what is happening in terms of new thinking and new products.
Message: Posted by: Darkness (Aug 17, 2014 11:22PM)
Agreed.

When we discuss new products, we also feed ideas back into the machine, directly or indirectly, which helps to spawn inspiration and direction. This is much needed for our growth and future.
Any discussion may be beneficial, even if it is only the talk of the day.

We need to beware of these offerings to determine if its a good fit as we experiment and develop our own paths. Why not talk about them? We are also free to open threads on other topics and we do.

Maybe it becomes unbalanced at times when there is so much worth talking about with respect to these amazing effect, which are just getting better and need to be front and center. We don't have a ton of iphone in coke bottle tricks. These are special and deserve the attention they are getting. All good, just be thankful we have great toys of importance.

Start to worry when they start turning into discussions about pencil through finger tricks, or whatever. Feel free to discuss prop-less routines as well. We are what we contribute.
Message: Posted by: Lo Pan (Aug 17, 2014 11:36PM)
I don't think that there is a problem with this forum - I have visited other areas of the Café and I won't go back. - There is a strong sense of community in Spooky that I believe is balanced and unique.
Message: Posted by: Darkness (Aug 17, 2014 11:40PM)
True..
Message: Posted by: Brynmore14 (Aug 18, 2014 01:02AM)
I don't bother with most other areas of the Café, for most of the reasons outlined by Chris above. Perhaps with need an area like the mentalists have just for sales and promotion. General discussion would then be in Spooky and any serious talk regarding methodology would go in the crypt.
Message: Posted by: DocBenWiz (Aug 18, 2014 01:20AM)
[quote]On Aug 17, 2014, Darkness wrote:
Yes, I think you all summed it up nicely. I do enjoy the discussion of the new effects but it does get a little too focused and detailed. There is so much else to talk about. As long as great new effects are being offered it would be expected the discussion to be directed in those areas. It not wrong it actually makes sense. [/quote]
Agreed,...and regarding discussion of new effects, I really would like to see more extensive and consistent contributions to the individual specialized "Forums".
I have found that over the past couple of years, I have purchased some new effects/props, been excited with the initial info and suggestions in the manuals provided, but then look to the forums for creative, helpful, enhancing contributions and they are either (1) few and far between (2) outdated by a year or more since anyone has contributed or (3) a few kind souls make some enthusiastic and very useful suggestions and then nothing more is seen in that particuler forum!
In some cases certain dealers have included in their sales descriptions the point that additional material (instructions, enhancememts, script ideas, ways of adapting props, etc, etc) will be discussed and included inthe special "forums". I have bought some items, gone into the forum for that item, and found that no one has made any posts there for well over a year!
I say this, not so much as a complaint, but as a wish and an encouragement that some folks would consider going back again into one of the forums of their favorite prop/effect/collectible item (assumimg they still remember the secret pass code, ha, ha) and make a current contribution. New ideas, enhancements, suggestions for presentation, additions, results of performance, etc and revive some interest there.
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Aug 18, 2014 01:54AM)
I, wish more would post about Spooky/Bizarre products & reviews here !

I would like to know about different options from several, than just a few ...
Message: Posted by: Dave Scribner (Aug 18, 2014 05:02AM)
[quote]On Aug 18, 2014, Brynmore14 wrote:
Perhaps with need an area like the mentalists have just for sales and promotion. General discussion would then be in Spooky and any serious talk regarding methodology would go in the crypt. [/quote]

Just for what it's worth, the mentalist do not have an area for sales and promotion. As I wrote above, Penny is for discussions and Mentally speaking is for reviews. Sales should be in Let's make a deal although that doesn't always happen.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Gould (Aug 18, 2014 07:37AM)
[quote]On Aug 18, 2014, DocBenWiz wrote:

I have found that over the past couple of years, I have purchased some new effects/props, been excited with the initial info and suggestions in the manuals provided, but then look to the forums for creative, helpful, enhancing contributions and they are either (1) few and far between (2) outdated by a year or more since anyone has contributed or (3) a few kind souls make some enthusiastic and very useful suggestions and then nothing more is seen in that particuler forum!
In some cases certain dealers have included in their sales descriptions the point that additional material (instructions, enhancememts, script ideas, ways of adapting props, etc, etc) will be discussed and included inthe special "forums". I have bought some items, gone into the forum for that item, and found that no one has made any posts there for well over a year!
I say this, not so much as a complaint, but as a wish and an encouragement that some folks would consider going back again into one of the forums of their favorite prop/effect/collectible item (assumimg they still remember the secret pass code, ha, ha) and make a current contribution. New ideas, enhancements, suggestions for presentation, additions, results of performance, etc and revive some interest there. [/quote]

This is how this works. I speak for myself, but I am sure it applies to other dealers equally.

When I release a product, it is not put out until it is complete and performable. This is what you are paying for.
However, other ideas may occur to me through further performance or evolution of ideas. Also, other users may get back to me with observations or ideas that they have come up with. Finally, I think it is important for dealers to be around to answer questions that new users may have.
All of this is dealt with by AM on the special users forums. Other dealers have similar procedures. But this is an *extra* it is not what you are paying for. It is done as a free extra service by dealers, and as a mark of respect and consideration for customers. So there should be no automatic expectation of this facility being there at all, nevermind that this should be regularly updated. Content in these forums is totally dependent upon user feedback. Some of the items I sell are very popular and generate a lot of interest and thought from active users. Therefore there will be a lot of content on the Kadar forum for example. Other products may have a lower level of interest, or it may be the case that the routine just works, and that there is little more to say about it. I really would not expect this to be regularly updated, it is more like a library of ideas that is by the community and for the community. The dealers are facilitators of such a feature, not the authors, their job is done when they send out the item you have paid for.
As to secret passwords, if anyone has forgotten theirs, the solution is only a pm away.
I am delighted at the positive response on some of these support forums and is is great when people take the time to contribute their thoughts, ideas and experiences. However, I do not have (and should not have) any expectations.
Message: Posted by: Joshua J (Aug 18, 2014 08:46AM)
Come on now Reece what are you trying to sell?

In part the forum restriction do stop a certain amount of discusion as a lot can't be done openly. But both of the forums for penny and spooky down below always have a lot more content. But in the case of bizarre a lot of us will be working from many of the wonderful dealer props, so sales threads will be popular. Luckily there are some very creative individuals such as the curator who inspire with routines they have made themselves.
Message: Posted by: PROF BC (Aug 18, 2014 09:03AM)
As per usual, I am in complete agreement with what Christopher Gould is saying. I would add the following:

Spooky is very like an ongoing, on-line convention. As such, Spooky has all of the hallmarks of any professional convention: We have our headline presenters (who post links to their performance videos). We have the smaller, 'breakout' seminars on topics of special interest (Salem witches, cryptozoology, paranormal phenomena, relevant new movies, trends, current events, &c.--conducted by some of the world's leading proponents--some of these seminars are better attended than others, as happens with any convention program.) We have even smaller, more private 'corridor chats' that occur spontaneously between a few persons sharing similar interests (often old friends just catching up after a lengthy and unintended silence)--chats that the rest of us eagerly sneak up close to and eavesdrop upon. And, like any convention, we have a rather large and centrally located Exhibition area where items of commercial interest are on display for sale or order.

As at any convention, the Exhibition area is the most regularly attended and often the most immediately interesting location. While new products always create the immediate buzz (in any convention, be it Academic, Business, or Bizarre), it is ultimately the 'star' seminar or exciting conversation that carries the most significant weight and is best remembered after we come home again.

Conventions are not mainly about sales. Sales happen, of course, and products create a certain palpable cynosure for the event, but in the end it is the conversations, seminars, and shared ideas that carry the day.

So it is with Spooky . . . except you don't have to register at a rickety table, pay the registration fee, or figure out where 'the Gold room' is or locate the West Tower on the tiny map printed in your program booklet.

BC
Message: Posted by: MatCult (Aug 18, 2014 09:03AM)
I should point out, the *hilarious* image above is aimed at the OP, not the good Prof
Message: Posted by: Christopher Gould (Aug 18, 2014 09:11AM)
[quote]On Aug 18, 2014, The Curator wrote:
So, the solution is easy: more sales posts. [/quote]

Christian, I think you may be missing my point entirely. I am referring here to customer back up on the Moon forum, not here. So I am talking about how to reduce such posts by having them in the appropriate place. The case I am making is a simple one. If the structure of this forum remains the same then it is up to both dealers and consumers (and all shades in between) to ensure that we all get the forum that we want. It is a shared responsibility.

People have already said that this is the place that they want to come to to find out about what is coming out, and that they would rather come here to get this information than elsewhere. At the same time, there is understandable concern if dealers posts swamp out general discussion. So, as I have said, it is a matter of balance and a balance that we all play a part in.

It is important for me to let people know when I have something new that they may benefit from or enjoy hearing about (incidentally, I do not really make a living from this, for me it is more for the intellectual and creative challenge/engagement).
At the same time, I do not think it is appropriate for me to keep bumping my posts. Generally, if a post is made on one of my treads, it is for a genuine reason. Either I have some information that needs adding, or I am responding to a question, or someone has independently decided to make a comment. Giving support and feedback to customers is a vital service. However, in my view, this is not the best place to do it (although sometimes this is unavoidable) there are other more appropriate places, such as 'down below' (which clearly has a different meaning here than what it did to my mother), or on private forums linked to the dealer's website. This is a call for less posts promoting, not a call for more.
This for me is a good code of conduct, it is up to other dealers to arrive at what works for them. All we seem to be asking here that dealers and posters respect this need for balance.
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 18, 2014 09:39AM)
[quote]On Aug 17, 2014, Dave Scribner wrote:
Tony said it best in that what you see is driven by the members. We set up the forums and if members misuse them, the result is what you currently see.

[/quote]

You said it all.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Aug 18, 2014 10:45AM)
I would say that with bizarre in partic-ulaaaar, there are far more collectors than performers... how and when do you perform the creepy spooky stuff some of you love? context is king, I would find it hard to take to see someone in a pub with a huge box full of all kinds of stuff...

and this is said by a person who used to perform at a table, after a dinner party...with a chinese wooden box, with self-workers inside and all my own written stories...after dinner as a special guest works...doing it in a pub, not so much...then again, doing ONE thing in a bar or pub, can be spectacular too...but its not a living as such...putting on shows, no doubt parlour more suitable than stage (i know there are some excellent spooky performers who do stage though)...

but for those who buy the latest "thing", I wonder how much they do with it? and don't get me wrong, there is no bad answer...its just that if there are more collectors than performers, then you won't get the creative juices flowing, because there's nothing to create apart from a few ideas...testing them out, and sharing them with others who will also go and perform is were you'll find the nuances and subtleties and new/fresh approaches...

collecting something odd and wonderful is certainly no bad thing...its just not one that will spark new ideas, that's all...

from my point of view - a lot of spooky is about the new product, or a show and tell (look what I have!), and then some say "hey, where did you get that unique and odd object, I WANT ONE TOO!"... which always feels odd to me! bizarre is about different, counter culuture, old school and nu skool and archaic and odd references all thrown together...

it seems that people need a plot given to them, rather than building up the story themselves...storytelling is the key, surely? without that - what do you have? some old looking stuff and not muc else...

looking from the outside in, and with some very fond memories of bizarre "stuff" - I feel some people are losing touch with what made bizarre, bizarre...losing the skills and creativity...

tell an unique and engaging story...
the fine line between reality and paranormal
metaphors and tales that people can identify with, yet also can't quite believe or not want to listen to the potential horrors it hints at...
forget the props, the ancient keys to a lost civilisation...
make me identify with some part of it, because then when I'm invested in it, the risk of loss, the fear of something not going right is when I will believe in YOU...

"i could tell you a story right now, about a young boy who saw a very odd sight whilst conker picking in the woods...and how he squeezed the spikey conker shells so tightly in fear, he pricked and bled his palms something awful...he kept telling himself over and over it wasn't real, what he saw... he soon told himself that nothing was real so much and so often, that the blood in his hands dissapeared, the holes in his hands vanished...and before he realised it, his family mourned him for running away, despite him living with them still...he was no longer real himself...."

nothing special, short, to the point, opens up to a few effects/presentations...a lot people in the UK will identify with playing conkers as a kid...conkers on strings convert over to pendulums, blood in the hands convert over to stigmata...all kinds of open avenues...
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Aug 18, 2014 10:49AM)
So what we currently see is the result of misuse rather than the free flow of information? Really?
I think Prof BC nailed it with the convention analogy.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Aug 18, 2014 11:00AM)
A forum is always the collective sum of its contributors!
Message: Posted by: Darkness (Aug 18, 2014 11:04AM)
Its not too late to organize this better but everyone has to "buy in" so to speak and stop going against the grain of the coffin. I think more discussion downstairs is appropriate for a start, but look how well that's going. How have we evolved in our communications? Its a little like mob mentality. Unfortunatley, its now part of the culture. Dave is right, they built it and we just mess it up. We have to be our own janitors and pickup after ourselves. Reviews downstairs for starters? Can we agree to that at least or whats the point?
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Aug 18, 2014 11:16AM)
Why not use mentally speaking to post reviews?

Use crypt to discuss more in depth ideas and nuances, and up here for general chat and help?
Message: Posted by: The Curator (Aug 18, 2014 11:26AM)
[quote]On Aug 18, 2014, IAIN wrote:
I would say that with bizarre in partic-ulaaaar, there are far more collectors than performers... [/quote]

Sure, but some of us perform.
Bizarre magic has always been a pipe dream for most of the magicians, but there are few exceptions. And it seems to me very interesting to compare various approaches.
I'm also very interested by original creators like Prof BC or others.
But as you say, people make the forum.
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Aug 18, 2014 11:37AM)
I'm sure there will be those (many most likely) who will disagree but I'm old and don't give a hoot...continuing Prof BC's analogy to a 'Convention'...how successful would any convention be with stern restrictions on the conversation that randomly breaks out amongst the attendees? One might see large amounts of convention goers go to the one next door without thought police waving thier fingers. Most adults that I know would rather speak freely and not be concerned that ideas and thoughts that form and beg to be shared should be so regulated and pigeon holed with the inevitable admonishment soon to follow. Not that I'm saying good, qualified, even exceptional 'attendies' would go elsewhere...oh wait...I am saying that. But it is not too much to ask that a post be thoughtful and useful and that monitors are needed to control the unruly and trollers, that's a given...but one person's apple is another's bitter melon...eat what you like, spit out what you don't, leave it up to the monitors to pay attention and enjoy ALL that the convention has to offer. :die:
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Aug 18, 2014 11:48AM)
One other thing but I go to Spooky because that's what I'm interested in. I don't even bother or have the time to go to the other 'rooms' to find if what I might be interested in is included. So personally I like it that everything is in the same room so to speak. It's convenient and interesting to see the different threads in one place that have to do with SPOOKY. The Spooky section IS the Café to me. It's not like there are a limited number of threads allowed per day...
Message: Posted by: Lo Pan (Aug 18, 2014 11:58AM)
[quote]On Aug 18, 2014, Doug Higley wrote:
One other thing but I go to Spooky because that's what I'm interested in. I don't even bother or have the time to go to the other 'rooms' to find if what I might be interested in is included. So personally I like it that everything is in the same room so to speak. It's convenient and interesting to see the different threads in one place that have to do with SPOOKY. The Spooky section IS the Café to me. It's not like there are a limited number of threads allowed per day... [/quote]


I agree totally with Doug - I think that it is nice to have one location for all the general discussions and news/reviews of releases with the more involved talk occurring in the Crypt. I'm looking in Spooky right now and the threads don't seem over-weighted with product pitches - I really don't see a problem here at all.
Message: Posted by: PROF BC (Aug 18, 2014 12:13PM)
[quote]On Aug 18, 2014, Doug Higley wrote:
One other thing but I go to Spooky because that's what I'm interested in. I don't even bother or have the time to go to the other 'rooms' to find if what I might be interested in is included. So personally I like it that everything is in the same room so to speak. It's convenient and interesting to see the different threads in one place that have to do with SPOOKY. The Spooky section IS the Café to me. It's not like there are a limited number of threads allowed per day... [/quote]

Here, here. Well said! This is my experience, too. What's the advantage in making our discussion section LESS convenient? We each have the ability to ignore those threads we don't wish to read, after all.

BC
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Aug 18, 2014 12:15PM)
[quote]On Aug 17, 2014, Godzilla wrote:
I am curious to how some of the Creators and Members that do post threads in 'Spooky' about products, that can be discussed here ... seem to VANISH like magic ! [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Aug 18, 2014 12:27PM)
If that is rhetroical, I appologize for answering personally...for me it was a LONG time of not being able to get in. The password thingy wasn't working for me and numerous attempts over many months failed...finally after a bunch of communications with the a tech mod it was fixed for me so TA DA...I reappeared...add to that I got a bit bored with trying.

As to others...there's a cornicopia of reasons they 'vanish'. We know some...others might be blamed on UFOs or Bigfoot.

What are your thoughts G?
Message: Posted by: Godzilla (Aug 18, 2014 12:39PM)
Doug, that in no way was against your post !
It was what I posted earlier and I am in agreement with you!
I would prefer to come to Spooky & Crypt over going through other forums such as 'Latest & Greatest' to find any bizarre effects or releases.
I have seen posts about products, leave the Café then later to return to a thread, that is no longer here.

It is either UFO's , Bigfoot, or Politics !

Again, if I offended you in any way... I, am sorry for that !
You are one of the ones, I hold in the Highest Respect in Spooky !

Best,
Gary
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Aug 18, 2014 12:45PM)
Absolutely 100% not G! I was honestly curious what your thoughts were and to what you were referring and only put my own 2 cents in in case it was relevent...like maybe others 'vanish' like I did from password silliness. :-)
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Aug 18, 2014 01:49PM)
I enjoy coming here and chatting, finding out the latest creations etc. Living on a very small Spanish island has its drawbacks. No magic shops, no magic club, not really any magicians.
Bet you all feel sorry for me now. Don't worry, always happy to receive large donations of Euros ;-) :spinningcoin: :spinningcoin: :spinningcoin:
Message: Posted by: Lo Pan (Aug 18, 2014 01:56PM)
[quote]On Aug 18, 2014, george1953 wrote:
I enjoy coming here and chatting, finding out the latest creations etc. Living on a very small Spanish island has its drawbacks. No magic shops, no magic club, not really any magicians.
Bet you all feel sorry for me now. Don't worry, always happy to receive large donations of Euros ;-) :spinningcoin: :spinningcoin: :spinningcoin: [/quote]

Sounds like opportunity knocking - especially if you can perform/demo for your customers!
Message: Posted by: Darkness (Aug 18, 2014 01:59PM)
Agreed, there is no problem other than being thoughtful.
Message: Posted by: Brynmore14 (Aug 19, 2014 05:18AM)
[quote]On Aug 18, 2014, Dave Scribner wrote:
[quote]On Aug 18, 2014, Brynmore14 wrote:
Perhaps with need an area like the mentalists have just for sales and promotion. General discussion would then be in Spooky and any serious talk regarding methodology would go in the crypt. [/quote]

Just for what it's worth, the mentalist do not have an area for sales and promotion. As I wrote above, Penny is for discussions and Mentally speaking is for reviews. Sales should be in Let's make a deal although that doesn't always happen. [/quote]

Ok, so replace 'sales' with 'reviews' in my original quote, my point still stands.
Message: Posted by: MatCult (Aug 19, 2014 06:09AM)
Anyone who thinks Spooky is only about promotion of products is missing out. Clearly they haven't spent any time here.

Case in point:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=558196&forum=14

When was the last time Penny forum users came together, shared ideas, plots and techniques to enable the compilation of a 50+ page PDF of routines - all without any sort of commercial venture being involved? I only ask because it happened here last month.