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Topic: Becoming The Marketing Minded Mentalist
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 20, 2014 09:27PM)
I'm on the Train!!!! And David Thiel is the conductor.
Honestly, I've read very few books from cover to cover in one sitting, but this is the exception!

Insightful and inspiring, low key yet exciting, uncommon common sense plus facts and experience only a few might have.

The ebook arrived today and I had read it before lunch. That's a grand slam for someone like me.
After almost 40 years of singing/dancing/performing on stage and 10 years of studying Mentalism it's time for me to take the plunge ...... And this is just the diving board I've needed.
If you are in a position like myself, I can't imaging a better book. It lays out a marketing plan and a whole lot more. I like David's comparison of performing Magic/Mentalism and achieving success with a business plan. There is a lot here (But not too much) ... I'll be reading it again!
I'll be happy to resurrect this thread in a few months... Hide and watch ;) ... This is great stuff. :dancing: :bigdance: :bigdance: :band:
Message: Posted by: JayFredericks (Oct 20, 2014 09:45PM)
Your enthusiasm makes it sound really good - is it still available?
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Oct 20, 2014 10:10PM)
It just came out.

So, yes.
Message: Posted by: Scott Soloff (Oct 20, 2014 10:44PM)
You may find Mr. Thiel's new book here:

http://www.magicpendulums.com/the-marketing-minded-mentalist.html

Best,

Scott
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 20, 2014 11:29PM)
I wouldn't be blowin' sunshine up you drainpipe..... I heard they were talking about this at Mindvention. Had to check it out.
Message: Posted by: MatthewSims (Oct 21, 2014 01:48AM)
Just read the ad. I'm excited, as I know David is a real time worker, out there on the hustle and grind.

I also know he focuses mainly on corporate work (I think I know that). My question is, is this geared toward corporate work?

Matthew
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 21, 2014 08:43AM)
Yes and no. It's more inspiring to get you to jump in and do the daily work it takes to actually "Make It" in the professional world. I'm adapting one of the principles today ..... I'm on it. I'll apply another tomorrow. I certainly won't be on the Café as much as I've been in the past, which will be a relief to many, and help me focus on my REAL GOAL!
Message: Posted by: harris (Oct 21, 2014 09:00AM)
I liked your post Slim, not because you won't be here as much, but that I also can prioritize my time better.

Thanks for the review.

Harris
who has played his harp/harmonica on 18th & Vine(in Kansas City) to The Ellen Show.
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Oct 21, 2014 09:03AM)
Thanks, Dave for the post. I really appreciate it...and thanks Scott for posting the link.

Matthew: The book isn't geared to the performers who just want to sell to private events (family reunions, weddings etc.) And you're right: most of what I do is sold to the corporate market and fairs and exhibitions. But I tried to make the book work for everyone who:

* Is trying to transition their career from "Magician" to "Mentalist"
* OR is considering going full or part-time with their show
* OR is trying to figure out how to go about selling their show for the first time
* OR sell themselves as mentalists more efficiently

There are some basic sales strategies that would apply to anyone selling themselves as entertainers in the book, because there will be some people buying it who know performing -- but don't know the BUSINESS. I explain, for example, how to build a client list, what marketing materials you need, how to keep track of the clients once you have them, how to set goals for your business -- how to stay motivated.

More specifically -- I've geared the book more toward the process of selling mentalism because this is what I really wrestled with when I went from full time magic to full time mentalism. They are two completely different products and they need to be sold in two completely different ways. For me it was very difficult to "un-think" marketing myself as a magician -- and flip the mental switches to allow me to market myself as a mentalist WITHOUT losing 20 years worth of solid magic clients.

I'm not saying that what's in the book won't be controversial to some...and I'm sorry about that. Starting a fight really isn't my intent. But I've read a lot of "pie in the sky" books where the people writing them go on and on, spouting advice on things they don't actually do themselves -- but sound good when they are written down. Those books don't show respect for the reader, because what's in them isn't true. There's nothing in this book that I don't do every day in building my business.

There are concrete examples of the contracts I use and why they are structured that way. I show you what components go into a database and how to use one. I share what I've learned about websites and marketing materials -- and that's all in the book because it's all stuff I use.

I go step by step through the process of pitching your act to THE client (or committee) -- who can provide an especially lucrative show, or a series of shows. I give specifics (what to say and what to do) on how I've structured my face to face meetings for maximum impact so that the client WILL remember me, have a clear understanding of what mentalism is and ultimately book me.

Once you know how, marketing yourself as an entertainer isn't difficult -- but it is hard work. The Marketing Minded Mentalist is simply designed to make that process easier by raising some ideas for your consideration.

Think of it as a REALLY long post here on the Café.

David
Message: Posted by: jstreiff (Oct 21, 2014 09:29AM)
Let me chime in here as well. I saw David's lecture in marketing at Mindvention and, as a former marketer myself, immediately recognized the legitimacy and value if his approach. Grounded firmly in established marketing and sales principles and adapted to mystery performance, I knew this material was valuable and useable. I bought the book and am thoroughly pleased with it.
Message: Posted by: Cervier (Oct 21, 2014 09:59AM)
Ok, you got me. I just ordred it :)
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 21, 2014 11:18AM)
Congrats on the release of your book. Those of us following David's journey, as well as his writings/postings here surely know you are in for a treat.
Message: Posted by: Paul Shirley (Oct 21, 2014 11:27AM)
From the little I know of David, besides being one of the nicest chaps you are likely to meet... he knows his stuff when it comes to marketing in the entertainment biz.

I will also be picking this up.

Well done David :)
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 21, 2014 12:02PM)
Well ... I did my two hours of work this morning ... And I feel great!!!!!!
Time for lunch.
Looking for a nice little open mic tonight to try out a new routine.
Message: Posted by: Cervier (Oct 21, 2014 02:01PM)
It just came in! I quickly browsed through it and so far, it looks like what I need: not an essay but closer to a step-by-step "how to" guide. Good :D
Message: Posted by: Randwill (Oct 21, 2014 02:26PM)
Well...just got back from the grocery store and have all the groceries put up. Feels great!!!!!

Guess I'll do a little work and then have supper.

I've got several television shows from last week I'm going to watch tonight.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 21, 2014 04:02PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2014, Slim King wrote:
Well ... I did my two hours of work this morning ... And I feel great!!!!!!
Time for lunch.
Looking for a nice little open mic tonight to try out a new routine. [/quote]
Not to tip anything here Randwill..
But David advocates working a few hours before lunch and performing new routines whenever possible.. and that's how I'm BECOMING The Marketing Minded Mentalist. :dancing:
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Oct 21, 2014 04:16PM)
I figured it this way: the amount of time I WANT to do marketing (sales calls etc.) is no more than a couple of hours a day. But I HAVE to market and sell what I do -- otherwise I'm just talking to myself. When you know what you're supposed to be doing on any given day (your database) and you know what you're going to say and who you're going to call the time gets used very efficiently.

You'd be amazed at how much you can get done in just a couple of hours in the morning. My ideal time is 9-11. I can catch potential clients before they get irritated with the world and are still relatively open to hearing from someone they don't know. My family and friends know not to bug me during this time unless someone's on fire.

But this period is also a time for work with NO distractions (the latest cool thing from ParaLa*s or Bob's newest book etc) -- just putting my head down and contacting clients. I do the same two hours every possible day...Monday to Friday...even when I'm on the road.

The whole idea is to maintain a routine (much as I hate routines) so that sales and marketing are always moving forward.

Since I set goals for how many new contacts I'm going to make in any given month, I also know when I'm done and get get on with the fun stuff of being a mentalist...like reading Bob's latest book or playing with the new ParaL*bs prop. Or doing shows.

David
Message: Posted by: Mormo Zine (Oct 21, 2014 10:05PM)
Wow, this sounds good!

I love marketing!!
Message: Posted by: lucavolpe (Oct 22, 2014 02:03PM)
Im reading the book right now, is FULL of very good information, I think that this book will help performers a LOT to be more "marketing minded".
David you did really a GREAT job my friend!
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Oct 22, 2014 05:10PM)
Thank you, Luca. I appreciate those words. And it was wonderful finally seeing you perform at MindVention.

David
Message: Posted by: jlevey (Oct 22, 2014 10:05PM)
Sounds like very valuable material, David. Thanks for sharing this with the Mind Reading and Magic Community. I plan to order this e-book very soon. :)

Jonathan
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Oct 23, 2014 09:15AM)
This isn't a post to "bump" the thread. It's a post to say "thank you" to each person who has ordered this book. I woke up this morning and found orders from all over the world that came in overnight. Thank you most sincerely.

It feels a little presumptuous to write a book, to be honest. And each time I send one out into the community I sort of hold my breath and wait for the emails to come in, or reviews to be posted...so that I'll know if the project I've released is hitting the mark and helping people or not. So far, The Marketing Minded Mentalist has only resulted in happy people.

Here's the thing: IF you purchased the book...and you use the techniques I suggest for just three months and they haven't worked, let me know and I'll make it right. That's my promise to you.

Some of you guys know me. My motivation in writing this book isn't the fourteen million dollars I'm going to make from the sales, movie rights and foreign distribution deals. ( :) ) My reason is to provide a little help each performer get to where they want to be in their career.

Mentalism is a beautiful art. The people who perform it, care about it and work hard to do it justice are beautiful as well. They deserve to move forward.

But there are a lot of very good performers who don't understand the BUSINESS end of what they do. That's what this book is about.

So thank you to each one who has given The Marketing Minded Mentalist a chance. I truly wish you all wild successes, more bookings and a steady advancement of your art.

David
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Oct 23, 2014 10:35AM)
Man, I love this guy. A class act all the way.
Message: Posted by: Scott Soloff (Oct 23, 2014 12:45PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2014, Mindpro wrote:
Man, I love this guy. A class act all the way. [/quote]

Yep!
Message: Posted by: jlevey (Oct 23, 2014 06:52PM)
I just sent David payment via his web site with PayPal and received his confirmation of receipt of payment, an thoughtful note of encouragement AND the Ebook --all within ten minutes! Now THAT's great customer service! :)

I look forward to gaining insights and further encouragement in the weeks to come from reading and thinking about this very valuable material.

Thank you David! :)

For those that wish to read a synapse of the book and even read a motivational sample page as a Free gift from David, click on the link below!
http://www.magicpendulums.com/the-marketing-minded-mentalist.html

Jonathan
Message: Posted by: jlevey (Oct 24, 2014 08:20PM)
Umm... meant "synopsis", not synapse. But you knew that! ;)
Message: Posted by: BenSalinas (Oct 25, 2014 12:47PM)
This sounds like exactly what I need! I'll be ordering it today!
Message: Posted by: John C (Oct 25, 2014 06:46PM)
David is right on! I don't have the book but what he posts above about it is exactly correct. Activity activity activity. Same time each day. Same amount of time. Reach the tipping point and never go back.
Message: Posted by: jlevey (Oct 26, 2014 10:55AM)
Just read through your Marketing Minded Mentalist materials. Very inspiring and insightful. Thank you David.

...Now I need to set up, organize and actually "use" my database system, so that I am no longer a fallen tree in the woods that no one hears, but (instead) "out there" beating the drum! :)

Jonathan
Message: Posted by: Klas Andersson (Oct 27, 2014 10:18AM)
Ordered mine just now, after reading the The Last Rest Step. Really timely advice for me!!

//Klas
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Oct 29, 2014 12:23PM)
Thanks for the comments about "The Last Rest Stop," Klas. It's very kind of you. It keeps me from feeling like I'm talking to myself.

The strange thing is that I finished the first draft nearly three months ago. But I couldn't think of a good way to end the book that DIDN'T feel forced, preachy or...well...unfinished. And I didn't want to send it out until I had one.

Here's the thing: I don't like marketing or selling. It's my least favorite aspect of doing this for a living. So I needed to do two things. I needed to figure out how to do it more efficiently so that every minute would be well used. AND I had to come up with a way to make it fun.

Why fun? Because if it's not "fun" I know myself well enough to be sure that there's no way I am going to continue doing it long-term. How many projects have I started and then abandoned because they got to be too unpleasant? Lots.

The other aspect, as John observed, is that selling and marketing are things that need to be done EVERY DAY. When you do this for a living (or part of a living) your career always has to be moving forward. (Previously, when I was solidly sold for the foreseeable future -- my tendency was to put my feet up and concentrate on "fun" stuff. Of course eventually, it bit me in the butt because the work got done and I'd find myself scrambling again. Which sucked. Actually...it SUPER sucked.)

The ONLY solution -- for me anyway -- was to be active in marketing every day. To prevent myself from procrastinating I set aside the times of 9-11 to focus solely on marketing. And it works for me. This means that I can relax and know that the sales work is done well and constantly moving forward. I can do whatever I want for the rest of the day.

I got the idea for avoiding the Last Rest Stop from there.

So put the pedal to the "mental," Klas. I expect I'll see you somewhere on the highway.

David
Message: Posted by: Klas Andersson (Nov 4, 2014 08:38AM)
Yeah I know about all the times when I have done the same. You know I put my feet up and did NOTHING for too long, just thinking that everything would be okey. And it kinda was until the banking crisis of 2008. Things have been a struggle since and I truly want to find a way to market myself in a fun and productive way.

David, did you send me a copy? Or do I download it from your site?
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Nov 4, 2014 11:32AM)
I hear you, Klas.

The first year I went full-time was 1990. I'd spent a lot of time getting everything ready to make the leap to full time. I had marketing materials, contracts and a list of clients I'd done "no charge" shows for over the previous three years. There was no internet back then...so I took a HFP ("Huge Fricking Pile") of paper to the printer.

I left with a BOX of copy and that's what I used as sales material for the next couple of years. (No internet in the olden days.)

The first year got off to a shaky start. Despite my careful planning, I'd gone from being grossly over-paid as a radio reporter to needing to live off of my savings. I really hadn't considered ALL the costs I needed to cover in my day to day life. It was tight but manageable. I plugged along and eventually things picked up. By the start of the next year I was really flying with as many bookings as I wanted for the next four or five months.

My reaction?

"This is easy," thought I. "I have now weathered the storm, paid my dues and am now a full time performer. Whoopee for me."

I was young and stupid and was too busy patting myself on my back to see what was coming. I what I wanted to do. I performed shows, took in money and spent my time on "fun" stuff: learning new effects, playing around with new props etc. I didn't work at marketing. I didn't work at selling...and I didn't notice that weeks were going by without anything new appearing on the horizon.

Anyone in Alberta will tell you how utterly dependent we are on oil prices...and this province hit the first bump in a very nasty up and down ride in 1991. Before I knew it, I was out of contracts, having not yet heard the show biz saying that "as soon as you finish a show, you're out of work again."

I had a pile of bills coming in and for the first time in my life I didn't have the money to pay them. Baaaaaad feeling.

It was either go back to the radio industry on my knees or put the pedal to the metal. That's what I did. I worked HARDER that year than any other time in my life. I honed my marketing materials until they were razor sharp. I cut every cost possible without letting it look like I was cost cutting. I was on the phone for six to seven hours a day. I was doing EVERYTHING from kids birthday parties to shopping mall promotions -- but I always kept my eye fixed on the corporate market, because that's where I'd decided I was going.

The upshot? In 1992 I was close to sold out again. By then some other performers were giving up and going back to their old jobs or grousing about how the market was killing them etc. But I learned the real ropes of show business in 1991...how hard I had to work and how tough, determined and DELIBERATE I had to be in everything I did.

I can honestly say I've never forgotten that lesson...which is why I developed the routine of two hours of marketing a day, every Monday to Friday...and why I built databases so I didn't forget anyone...and why I sat down and really thought through goals etc.

There was so much more to doing this for a living -- or even a part time living -- than I thought there would be.

Ah well. Live and learn, huh?

Thank you for your comments, Klas. I expect that the book I sent previously is floating around in cyberspace somewhere. I've already sent it to you again. Can you let me know when you get it?

Thank you for your patience.

David
Message: Posted by: Klas Andersson (Nov 4, 2014 03:30PM)
Thanks for sharing David, I truly appreciate hearing about both your ups and downs.
I have been working full-time as an entertainer in some shape or form since 1998, and I am determined to do so in the future.
Even more so when I hear your story.

Got the book alright :) and I am looking forward to reading it.

Thanks yet again!

//Klas
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 4, 2014 11:22PM)
Just ordered :-)
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 7, 2014 08:41AM)
David-

Love your PDF and I am still absorbing the wealth of great ideas and strategies within it. Great stuff! Very helpful!

Question:

Many booking agents request that you provide them with "unbranded" links to sample photos, videos, pricing and other info about you as a performer.

I would like to hear whether you in fact have either an "unbranded" web site or unbranded marketing materials that many agents seek.

I am currently having my web designer create a separate unbranded domain set aside just for booking agents and their potential clients to view my stuff. Also I will be setting up an on screen calendar so booking people can see at a glance my performance schedule without having to call or email me first for availability.

If you do offer such "unbranded" links or sites etc, cam you please elaborate a little on how you use them and the contents?

Thanks.
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Nov 7, 2014 11:05AM)
Hi, Brett...

Glad you're enjoying the book.

I don't have unbranded websites. I DO have unbranded sales packages -- the same packages I sent to corporate clients...with my direct contact information removed. These packages include:

* What they can expect to see in my show
* Testimonials and references
* Performance clip LINKS. I don't embed performance videos in my package because they take too long to download...which irritates some clients. (I have found irritating clients to be a bad thing.)
* Pictures -- both posed and performing

Each of the agents I work with regularly have one of these packages available to them for emailing to clients.

Two of the agents that I work with on a fairly regular basis have packages with THEIR contact information.

In all cases, I have an agreement with agents that:

* If the client wants to talk directly to me, that I will ONLY reference the agent as the selling body

* That I will send them email updates or contact them by phone after each conversation or contact with the client they referred to me

* That any further sales that are made to or through that client, will go through the agency and not me

In return, the agents agree to tell me when they've sent a package out to a client. This is in their interests as well -- because if the client contacts me directly (sees my package and finds me on the internet) I'll know only discuss my show with them, but refer them back to the agent to make the booking.

I don't have a publicly available calendar anywhere. I ALWAYS want to talk to someone who is interested in booking me, whether I'm available for the date they want or not. Here's why: If I have an interested client who looks at my calendar and sees that I'm not available on the day they wanted to book me, they simply go away and very likely forget about me.

But if they have to contact me, I can get their information, add them to my database, get to know them a little, send them a package and hopefully get a booking on another date from them. In the first scenario, I walk away with nothing. In the second I have a new potential client. (A client who calls YOU is usually worth five clients YOU have to call.)

The idea, from my perspective, is to retain as much control and awareness of who is looking at my materials as possible.

Hope this is useful to you, Brett.

David
Message: Posted by: Sean Giles (Nov 8, 2014 07:22AM)
David, this book is great. I sincerely mean that, it's a wonderful book. I would love to have this on my bookshelf next to Maximum Entertainment 😄
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 8, 2014 03:15PM)
I Agree.
Message: Posted by: Klas Andersson (Nov 8, 2014 04:39PM)
Third that! David's book and Maximum Entertainment are the two books I'm reading and working on right now.
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Nov 9, 2014 09:14PM)
Thank you guys for the very kind words. Right alongside Maximum Entertainment, huh?

I was going to make a joke about "Gee...maybe I should have charged more..." But you know something? I can't tell you how happy it makes me that you all are using the book and getting something out of it. That's why I wrote it...to help guys put the 'pedal to the mental.' :)

David
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 10, 2014 03:07PM)
Yes I agree that the info David has provided was really needed and will help me and others to take their business to the next level - superb!

I have another question please:

David I keep running into situations lately for strolling gigs where at the end of (say) a 2 hour gig the hose asks me to stay an extra 1-2 hours. Now I love these situations, because (lets face it) even though I may be a little ravished for some food, I have the night set aside anyway and I have no issue with letting the taxi meter go overtime for my usual rate.

This situation has happened MANY times this past month especially. The issue however is whether I ask the host to pay me the overage on the spot (which I think is tacky) or not???

Yes I do try to discuss this possibility up front with clients, and most of the time they say "well, 2 hours or probably more than enough so we should be fine."

Well in many cases two hours for a group of 200+ people goes by like the wind... and then when my time comes to an end the host asks me to stay longer. The challenge though for me is:

1. The host at this stage has probably been drinking a little (or a lot). Asking and getting a card on the spot (and I have a PayPal swiper) seems a little tacky and it breaks the vibe - so I never do this.

2. After working an hour or two extra, I've run into least one hose who (even after agreeing to extend me at mu usual hourly rate) then asked for a discount promising me a load of future referrals etc + to add a little insult said they would pay me the overage in a few days.

Another challenge is getting paid after the event for extra hours has meant me chasing people for up to a week for the $$$ which is a pain.

I would love your thoughts David or others on this subject - I am flattered when people want me to keep going like the Energizer Mentalist, but I hate chasing money after a show as you might imagine!!!

BRETT
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 10, 2014 03:09PM)
Sorry for the HOSE type.... lol ... maybe I felt HOSED! H O S T
Message: Posted by: Scott Soloff (Nov 10, 2014 03:27PM)
Brett,

Great question. Interested to see how different people handle this.

Best wishes,

Scott
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Nov 10, 2014 04:51PM)
That's not an uncommon situation, Brett. Neither is a case where the show is delayed...and winds up starting much later than the contracted time. Here's the way I handle these situations:

When I send the agreement to the client -- if it's someone I don't know well and haven't worked with before -- I tell them in the email that goes with the contract that I'll be calling them in just a few minutes to go over the agreement with them. I have two reasons for this. First, I want them to understand the terms of payment along with any performance specific components (riders) that I have. It is in this talk that I will explain that I've been booked for two hours of walkabout/strolling and...whatever else. I explain that, should they choose to keep me longer, I'll bill them at an hourly rate and put it on their credit card (if they've paid with one) or invoice them accordingly if they've paid by cheque (that's "check" for our American friends.) But I ensure they KNOW the rate while we are talking...and that they hear it while they're sober.

In the case of a stage show, I tell them that I have a 15 minute window on either side of the contracted start time. If the show starts later than that, we need to arrive at an agreement that works for everyone.

If you look at the small print on my contract in the book (just above the signature line), you'll see this is covered there as well.

The second reason for going over the agreement with them on the phone is that it greatly speeds up the return of the agreement. People often have a tendency to put off signing an agreement for whatever reason. At the end of our conversation, I'll tell them that I look forward to working with them and will can send invoices later today -- after the agreement's been returned...operative word is "today."

In cases where you're not sure of the client -- if they've been difficult to collect from or you simply don't want to stay, tell them you have another place you need to be and you're sorry...but you can't stay. (You're not lying...because you NEED to be HOME. :) )

I'd much rather err on the side of passing up a couple of extra paid hours when I'm dealing with someone I think may be a hard client to be paid by. Why? Because the instant you've had to press a client for payment, chase them for it, you've burned the client. They won't work with you again...either because they are embarrassed or because they're angry. That negativity can also spill over in their conversations with other people...other potential clients. It's not worth the risk.

But I absolutely would not process payment on-site. It looks bad...and if you have problems? Oi.

If it's someone I've worked with before...someone I have a good relationship with? "No problem. My pleasure. I'll bill you for it later."

Two quick pieces of (unsolicited) advice about strolling mentalism:

1) Take the number of tables you're working and divide that by the amount of time you're booked for. THAT becomes the maximum amount of time you have with each table. Why do this? Two reasons. First, we all like tables that like us. When they react nice and loud to everything you do, we have a desire to spend more time with them because they are so receptive. But that's a mistake. One minute you give to them is one minute the next table doesn't get. Second: Performing this way means you'll hit the vast majority of people (if not all of them) in you allotted time.

2) If it's a longer booking (a full evening in a hospitality suite or a trade show), or if it's a booking where people AREN'T seated, assume that some will see you several times throughout the night (bringing friends over etc.) Try to mentally plan out your night in "sets." That means that you do only perform three effects for the first time period (whatever that may be)...another three for the next period etc. This way you never need to worry that the groups you entertain will have seen the effect you're performing. (Not that this is necessarily bad...but fresh material throughout the performance is much stronger for most audiences.)

Hope this is helpful.

David
Message: Posted by: Scott Soloff (Nov 10, 2014 05:56PM)
David,

As always, thank you. Practical advice from real world experience. Priceless!

Best,

Scott
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 10, 2014 08:11PM)
That Savis is so smart - scary huh?

Thank you David. Lots and lots of nuggets and I know what you mean by spending too much time at certain tables that love you. That is a mistake as we need to spread the love.

As an aside (and since strolling is easily 75% of my workload) I have found that the toughest portion of any strolling gig is the first 20 minutes. Your new to the room and you haven't earned your cred yet. In many cases I find the first few tables in some cases don't take you seriously. It takes a good 30 min sometimes to generate some room buzz but once it's started then the rest of the night is usually (not always!) a breeze. Some of the toughest initial people you approached many times become groupies following you around and saying "you gotta see this guy!"

With strolling all your material needs to be strong.

Thanks again David.
Message: Posted by: Richard Osterlind (Nov 10, 2014 08:18PM)
David didn't ask me for a quote, but I volunteered it. I thought it would be good to post it here.



“I had the pleasure of seeing David Thiel present his workshop The Marketing Minded Mentalist earlier this year. I was also privy to getting one of the very first copies of his book. Let me just say this – If I had this material 40 years ago I would have made many thousands of dollars! Everything David states in the book is right on. If you get this material, and apply it, you WILL succeed. There is nothing else I can say!

Richard Osterlind"
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Nov 10, 2014 08:25PM)
That's true, Brett.

Here's another 'little something' that may be of use to you.

When I perform my first effect in a walkabout situation, I make sure that it's one of the strongest things I do (typically a CT...maybe a pendulum routine) and at the end, once the reveal is done, I will stand and smile. I'll open my arms and bow. Why? People are conditioned to applaud when they see someone doing this...and they will applaud very loudly if they really enjoyed what you just performed...which hopefully they did.

In those first few groups you're performing for, you WANT applause. As loud as possible. That gets the attention of the room fixed on you...and further, makes them really look forward to getting you to come to their table or area. (It also tends to annoy any other entertainers who aren't getting that kind of reception. Ah well...) It takes great confidence to non-verbally command applause and attention...but if you work at it, it becomes almost second nature after a while. Try it the next time you're strolling. You'll see it working.

Also: choose an outgoing woman for your first effect. You want someone really expressive....so stay away from the image conscious executives. Avoid the drunks too. When you perform -- if it's a casual setting where they aren't seated -- draw as large a crowd as possible. Crowds beget crowds. If you handle it right, you're no longer "strolling." You're doing a parlor show because they're coming to you.

The evening makes itself after that. Once the room has seen other groups of people applauding for you, they will too. And the REALLY great thing? The client sees all of this.

Hope this helps.

David

Edit: I just posted this and who do I see? Richard Freakin' Osterlind! Thank you very much, Richard. I appreciate the kind words. I am having them inscribed on a pillow as we speak. :)
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 10, 2014 11:31PM)
[quote]On Nov 10, 2014, Richard Osterlind wrote:
David didn't ask me for a quote, but I volunteered it. I thought it would be good to post it here.



“I had the pleasure of seeing David Thiel present his workshop The Marketing Minded Mentalist earlier this year. I was also privy to getting one of the very first copies of his book. Let me just say this – If I had this material 40 years ago I would have made many thousands of dollars! Everything David states in the book is right on. If you get this material, and apply it, you WILL succeed. There is nothing else I can say!

Richard Osterlind" [/quote]

May I also extend my thanks to you and your lovely wife, who were incredibly gracious to all the MV attendees and I especially appreciated the spoon bending hints at your sales booth. I did two gigs this past weekend and hadn't done spoons in awhile and people just love it. Thanks again.
Message: Posted by: Richard Osterlind (Nov 11, 2014 07:40AM)
I'm glad that worked out so good for you! It was a pleasure meeting you and so many others at MindVention who, up till then, were only names on the Internet!
Message: Posted by: eric50 (Nov 11, 2014 01:46PM)
Very excited to announce David will be conducting an extended lecture at the Magic Business University Convention April 17-19 in CLinton, NJ . Magicbusinessuniversity.com a new convention focusing on the business side of magic and performing.
Message: Posted by: Scott Soloff (Nov 11, 2014 02:36PM)
[quote]On Nov 11, 2014, eric50 wrote:
Very excited to announce David will be conducting an extended lecture at the Magic Business University Convention April 17-19 in CLinton, NJ . Magicbusinessuniversity.com a new convention focusing on the business side of magic and performing. [/quote]

Link please.

Best,

Scott
Message: Posted by: Scott Soloff (Nov 11, 2014 02:37PM)
Never mind. Can't believe that I didn't see that.

Scott
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Nov 12, 2014 12:09PM)
Re-reading the book again!!!!!
Message: Posted by: genius (Nov 12, 2014 01:07PM)
Did the 9am to 11am ritual work well for you?

Mindblowingly,
Charles

[quote]On Nov 12, 2014, Slim King wrote:
Re-reading the book again!!!!! [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Mr. F (Nov 13, 2014 06:45PM)
I have read the ebook 5 times...no really I have. This is definitely one of my favorite purchases, and I am in the process of taking the necessary initial steps to start up my mentalism career. The book is full of practical, easy-to-follow information. I had no idea how to start this journey, but David gave me the map and the fuel. Thanks David!
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Nov 14, 2014 01:26PM)
I need to come back to this thread more often. I was delighted to read your post, Mr. F. That is EXACTLY why I wrote the book and your words simply made my day. Thank you for sharing them with us.

Please let me know how you make out...and if there's anything you'd like to know, something maybe that you wish had been covered in more detail. AND if you can make it to NJ in the spring for my workshop at MBU, I'll even buy you a beer and we can talk about your career in more detail!

David
Message: Posted by: Scott Soloff (Nov 14, 2014 02:04PM)
David,

I'll show up if you buy the beer.

Best wishes,


Scott
p.s. To hell with that! I'd like to invite you and your wife to dinner. Set some time aside and I'll make it happen.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Nov 14, 2014 02:14PM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2014, genius wrote:
Did the 9am to 11am ritual work well for you?

Mindblowingly,
Charles

[quote]On Nov 12, 2014, Slim King wrote:
Re-reading the book again!!!!! [/quote] [/quote]
There are many aspects to the book. I'm working on several of them at once. There are a couple of improvements I've needed to make in my act to make it bulletproof as can be as well as totally clean at the end. The 9 to 11 time frame is quite easy to maintain for me. I've accomplished several of my goals already!
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Nov 17, 2014 10:41AM)
I have waited to see what others would say about this book and as I suspected every response and review has been positive, supportive and most encouraging. This is what anyone who knows David and his contributions here on the Café would expect from him. His posts are very helpful and insightful, and always encouraging. Then he releases this book.

It is exactly what one would expect from a professional of David's caliber, plus much more. This is David's contribution to each of us and our magic business. Marketing is one of the most important areas to operating a mentalism business, yet for many, one of the most feared, dreaded, confusing and overwhelming areas as well.

David opens up his world and does much more than just saying "this is what I did and what works well for me." He takes us on his journey on his transition from magic to mentalism. He clarifies that there is difference between mentalism and magic. He very clearly addresses the many differences including perception, execution and implementation as he first had to identify these things, THEN accept these things himself, and commit to these differences. He's done this is a nice way that is non-offensive, non-elitist (as often accused by magicians) and from multiple perspectives - his, the customers, agents and more.

In opening up and sharing his journey, David also hits on the two key aspects of building the proper foundational structure for your business and the ever-important "process" that is required to implement this. Make no mistake, there is much more to marketing than contained in these 58 pages as I'm sure David would agree, but these pages contain a years-long journey and are filled with excellent perspectives and advice.

I decided I would highlight points as I was reading this. It was a fun, enjoyable and easy read that offered so much useful and practical advice, it was obvious highlighting would be to my advantage. A few hours later I finished the book with both a smile and a pride for what David has accomplished, both in his mentalism business but also in his journey. I know I'm proud to say I now have a yellow copy of most of David's book as I ended up highlighting the majority of the whole d**n book. Over 50 of the 58 pages were nearly all highlighter-yellow!

Aside from the great story and perspectives, and David being a great writer, he hits on some of the most important elements of the process from having the proper perspective required to make the transition from magic to mentalism, to having a plan and setting goals, to commitment and discipline, and to making it all happen by taking action. What David offers is his method of exercising his system and the required discipline. I knew the one thing that would resonate with many is his morning ritual. This is productive, and doable for any performer, part or full-time. I knew this would garner a great response and be one of the standout points that would encourage many to believe they can do it and to get off of their a***s and make it happen, which after knowing the right information, is what it really is all about.

We can see the path to David's success and his successful transition. He "gets it." This will help performers of all levels and offer great insight and clarity to those confused. Confused people will never take action, and David's book takes away that confusion so all that is left is for you to take action.

Very well-done David!
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Nov 19, 2014 11:48AM)
Thank you very much, Mindpro. And Dave. And Scott. And Richard. And Josh..and everyone who has talked about enjoying -- but more importantly -- USING The Marketing Minded Mentalist. Every one of these posts makes my heart smile.

I appreciate the PMs and the emails as well.

THAT'S the reason people write books. The whole idea of sharing information within the community is an exciting concept, isn't it?

David
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 22, 2014 06:13PM)
[quote]On Nov 17, 2014, Mindpro wrote:
I have waited to see what others would say about this book and as I suspected every response and review has been positive, supportive and most encouraging. This is what anyone who knows David and his contributions here on the Café would expect from him. His posts are very helpful and insightful, and always encouraging. Then he releases this book.

It is exactly what one would expect from a professional of David's caliber, plus much more. This is David's contribution to each of us and our magic business. Marketing is one of the most important areas to operating a mentalism business, yet for many, one of the most feared, dreaded, confusing and overwhelming areas as well.

David opens up his world and does much more than just saying "this is what I did and what works well for me." He takes us on his journey on his transition from magic to mentalism. He clarifies that there is difference between mentalism and magic. He very clearly addresses the many differences including perception, execution and implementation as he first had to identify these things, THEN accept these things himself, and commit to these differences. He's done this is a nice way that is non-offensive, non-elitist (as often accused by magicians) and from multiple perspectives - his, the customers, agents and more.

In opening up and sharing his journey, David also hits on the two key aspects of building the proper foundational structure for your business and the ever-important "process" that is required to implement this. Make no mistake, there is much more to marketing than contained in these 58 pages as I'm sure David would agree, but these pages contain a years-long journey and are filled with excellent perspectives and advice.

I decided I would highlight points as I was reading this. It was a fun, enjoyable and easy read that offered so much useful and practical advice, it was obvious highlighting would be to my advantage. A few hours later I finished the book with both a smile and a pride for what David has accomplished, both in his mentalism business but also in his journey. I know I'm proud to say I now have a yellow copy of most of David's book as I ended up highlighting the majority of the whole d**n book. Over 50 of the 58 pages were nearly all highlighter-yellow!

Aside from the great story and perspectives, and David being a great writer, he hits on some of the most important elements of the process from having the proper perspective required to make the transition from magic to mentalism, to having a plan and setting goals, to commitment and discipline, and to making it all happen by taking action. What David offers is his method of exercising his system and the required discipline. I knew the one thing that would resonate with many is his morning ritual. This is productive, and doable for any performer, part or full-time. I knew this would garner a great response and be one of the standout points that would encourage many to believe they can do it and to get off of their a***s and make it happen, which after knowing the right information, is what it really is all about.

We can see the path to David's success and his successful transition. He "gets it." This will help performers of all levels and offer great insight and clarity to those confused. Confused people will never take action, and David's book takes away that confusion so all that is left is for you to take action.

Very well-done David! [/quote]

Great review!

I am still re-reading and think that David's PDF is one of the best investments I have made in my business.

Coming from a Real Estate sales background already, I knew that prospecting would be a key component when I decided to transition to performance full time. However even though I know the importance of dialing for dollars daily (prospecting), like many I tend to procrastinate and I am at times not consistent in my efforts.

These past two years have been the best ones I've had and when I look at my overall booking there is no doubt that most of them were the direct result of going out and seeking opportunities rather than waiting for then to seek me (which rarely happens).

I love much of what David has put into this book but the prospecting component ritual is some of the best advice to be found. I plan on making 2015 a bigger year for booking and raising my fees as well, and David's advice will be a good portion of what will help me achieve my goals.

Thanks again David and look forward to buying you a drink next year at MV.
Message: Posted by: Wolfmindreader (Nov 24, 2014 09:35AM)
I really like this ebook! Great advice and a real wake up call.
I'm allready using the advice and principles and it is really paying off!

Ps; David's customer service is very good!
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Nov 24, 2014 09:24PM)
Thank you, Wolfmindreader. I am delighted to hear that. Seriously.

Here's the thing: marketing -- as a task unto itself -- isn't rocket science. It's ultimately about putting your product in front of potential buyers in a way that will tip them into the decision to buy it...and knowing how often you need to to that in order to get where you've decided you're going with your career. That's it. That's successful marketing.

The Marketing Minded Mentalist is just a book that lays out the nuts and bolts of how to go accomplish that.

But if you want to know the REAL secret of The Marketing Minded Mentalist -- here it is: for free. You need to have the discipline to do the work day in and day out. You need to be willing to hit the phones on days when you absolutely do NOT feel like it or when you feel like you just don't have the confidence to sell your show...and always be acutely aware of where you stand with reference to your sales and achievement goals -- and where you still need to go.

You need to hit the phones when times are really good and your booking schedule is loaded -- and you need to hit them when the coffers are running dry and you're fighting for each job -- without the client ever suspecting how much you want the work.

You need to be on the phone when you're in a hotel room far from home and no one will know if you did the work or not...and you need to do it when you've had a busy weekend and you're bone tired and you just want to sleep. Or rest.

People run out of "steam" because they lose sight of the end goal...or they can't tell where they are in reference to where they have to be...or they simply turn around one day and the passion they started the whole undertaking with has evaporated. It's happened to me many times in my life with many different projects.

The ONLY solution I've ever found is a) to have a plan and measurable goals to use as "road markers" along the way and b) to agree with myself to work hard for just two hours each day on marketing and sales. That's really all it takes. Two hard hours -- and you have the other 22 to do the fun stuff -- like exploring new props, sleeping...spending time with family or friends...creating or refining new aspects of your show etc.

If show BUSINESS was easy, everyone would be doing it.

Hearing all you guys saying that it's paying off for you is literal music to my heart. So keep the pedal to the MENTAL and watch the real magic happen in your lives.

David
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Nov 25, 2014 08:26PM)
Ain't it the truth!!! :gossip:
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 26, 2014 09:26PM)
David-

If I might ask do you send holiday cards or gifts to your best or past clients? This seems a wise idea.

Thanks.
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Nov 27, 2014 11:35AM)
[quote]On Nov 26, 2014, saysold1 wrote:
David-

If I might ask do you send holiday cards or gifts to your best or past clients? This seems a wise idea.

Thanks. [/quote]

No I don't for several reasons.

First: I am in regular contact with my best and repeat clients. In some cases I will have lunch with them...but most of the time I am in touch with them on as often as they want to hear from me.

Second: I don't send gifts to clients. It smacks of manipulation to me -- although that's a purely personal viewpoint. I will do favors for some of them and they know it. For example, I recently did a Paranormal Evening for a meeting planner who has booked me a respectable number of times over the years. She was looking to make her mother's family birthday party memorable and I offered this as a gift to a friend.

I do lots of special things for my clients -- usually when I'm on-site. Sometimes I start early. Sometimes I have an interaction with people who are special to them (high profile clients etc.). With the fairs, I'll usually do a special show on behalf of the fair board for hospitals or old folks homes...or do a set in their VIP rooms. I think something like that goes a long way toward cementing the relationship on a personal level and the bottom line is that I'm there anyway.

Third: The purpose of a card is to let someone know you thought of them. My clients already know I am thinking of them. As I said -- I'm in regular contact with them by phone and email so I'm in touch with them when they are planning their events. But I also send out one "industry specific" mass email once a year: in December for the fairs...and in the fall for my corporate clients. This is the ONLY "generic" contact I have with them...but I am always telling them about something specific...something new I'm offering or a "special" that they can get from me if they book early.

I want my contacts with them to be something they enjoy and are open to...and don't want to ever cause them to feel crowded or manipulated by me.

Having said all that, I know a number of entertainers who always send out cards and gifts to clients...and they swear by it.

David
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 28, 2014 09:40AM)
Thanks again - I need to think about it as a fun holiday card makes sense for me.

I think the idea is to make an effort to be top of mind throughout the year. Taking some clients to lunch seems a good plan to cement those relationships and understand needs.

I also show up early at gigs and sometimes give a little extra time. I usually never wear a watch to strolling gigs and that is to my detriment at times as the time flies by quickly lol.

Lots of great information in your pdf and this thread for anyone seeking to make 2015 and beyond amazing.
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Dec 1, 2014 09:17PM)
I had the pleasure of sitting beside Bobo (the author of Modern Coin Magic) at a convention one time. He was this little old guy, sitting all by himself at a table. I'd been reading his book, carefully earmarking pages where I'd mastered the sleight...or felt it was something I should work on. It was a real highlight for me.

He had these business cards that had a mathematical puzzle on them. You added various numbers from columns and reached a predicted outcome. They were all marked "Bobo The Magician."

Anyway -- he told me that he sent these out to clients every Christmas -- and on a number of occasions, people pulled them out of their wallets to show him that they'd kept them.

I think there's tremendous value to something like that. The "trick" is finding the right something that sends the right message.

David
Message: Posted by: eric50 (Dec 2, 2014 10:10AM)
David has great insight and I am thrilled he has agreed to speak at the Magic Business University Conference April 17-19 in New Jersey. For those of us that heard him speak at Mind Vention this year he was great. But at MBU he will be giving a much longer talk on Marketing and Mentalism going over many things and answering all your questions. I really didn't know David ( only by a great reputation) before starting to talk to him about coming on board and I can say he is a very thoughtful and insightful guy and I look forward to hanging with him and getting to know him better and the conference, If you are interested in growing your business, then you should consider coming to MBU. http://magicbusinessuniversity.com
Message: Posted by: DrewBstoss (Dec 2, 2014 12:03PM)
I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of everyone praising David's work on this publication.

I received my copy over a month ago and in the same week of reading it I applied many of the principles David shares regarding the "Face-to-face Pitch" to great effect! The pitch went as smoothly as I've ever experienced and the show is set for December 12th.

An unexpected highlight for me was David's thoughts on the reality that most clients don't understand what a "mentalist" is. This section of the book has given me some much needed food for thought as I continue down the path of pitching my services to companies and clients that don't know me from Adam nor really understand what I do.

Thanks again David!

Best,

Drew
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Dec 4, 2014 01:35PM)
This has been such a busy season that I hardly have time to get around here as often as I'd like. That means that I risk coming off like a jerk when people like Eric and Drew make a point of coming here to say kind things about The Marketing Minded Mentalist. So...thank you.

You guys blow me away. Seriously. That book has gone out all over the US and Canada -- into Europe, Iceland and Norway and Asia -- even a couple into Africa. It's gratifying because sending a book out into the world is sort of like sending your kid to school for the first time. You hope you've dressed him right...and that the other kids will like him. But eventually you have to take your hands off and let the kid go. Thank you for liking this particular "kid."

I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to post that they're using the material to take their careers closer to where they want them to be -- and those of you who have PMed or emailed me with the same kind of comments or questions about everything from databases to sales material. (If I haven't gotten back to you yet, it's just because this is the busiest season of the year for me.) That was the purpose of the whole project.

I have an idea. A couple of years ago I registered a website domain. The concept was to create a presence online where mystery entertainers could talk specifically about marketing themselves and share ideas and strategies within the safety of a closed environment...sort of an ongoing online marketing and sales minded workshop.

I know I don't have time to run it myself. But if there's enough interest, I'll work out a template in the new year and we can see where it goes.

What do you guys think?

David
Message: Posted by: Scott Soloff (Dec 4, 2014 02:53PM)
David,

A great idea and very doable. Be happy to participate.


Best wishes and Merry Christmas,


Scott
Message: Posted by: DrewBstoss (Dec 5, 2014 11:37AM)
David,

I think I speak for everyone when I say that you in no way would come off as a jerk! Honestly, it's great to hear that you're staying busy because that just adds credibility to the marketing advice that you offer in the book! So in that vein--we wish you so much success that you'll have even less time to hang out on the Café!

The "online marketing workshop" sounds GREAT! While I won't have much to offer by way of implementing your idea, I will definitely look forward to being a part of it.

Best,

Drew
Message: Posted by: robvh (Dec 6, 2014 03:09PM)
I had the pleasure of sitting down with David a couple of weeks ago while visiting Edmonton, Alberta. David was generous with his time and insight and I enjoyed getting to know him.

With all the praise here, I'm surprised David's book has yet to appear in the "Official Book of the Year 2014" thread! If David's book is in your Top 3 this year, head over there now and cast your vote!

Here's the thread: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=572237&forum=110
Message: Posted by: DrewBstoss (Dec 7, 2014 03:42PM)
Rob,

Thanks for the recommendation and link! I just added "The Marketing Minded Mentalist" as part of my vote!

Best,

Drew
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Dec 12, 2014 02:33PM)
:)

I certainly didn't expect this. Thanks Drew...and Slim King for your voting for the MMM. It means a lot to me. You don't usually see books that don't talk about effects nominated as "book of the year" -- so I am both humbled and delighted.

Thanks, guys.

I appreciate it very much.

David
Message: Posted by: Mortimer Graves (Dec 12, 2014 04:37PM)
David, I don't generally buy anything for myself, especially the sorts of things that people sell here, because I feel I should be making money with this stuff, rather than spending money on it. But what I've seen so far in regards to this tells me that when I do decide it's time for me to get something for me (and not the house, my girl or the kids) again, I can get your book and feel no guilt whatsoever.

It seems it would be more of an investment than an indulgence, and that's awesome.

I'd probably be able to actually afford more indulgences after putting it to work for myself, as well, and that's beautiful. I'm very seriously considering purchasing this, and that's saying a lot. Most of the time getting money out of me is almost impossible, so yeah.
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Dec 15, 2014 02:11PM)
Thank you MG. I'd be delighted to send you a book.

To be completely honest: marketing mentalism isn't hard. Really -- it's not. But when people think about it, I think they may be seeing this huge mountain in front of them. Where do you start? Website? How do you attract clients...and when you have them...what do you send them...and how do you keep them...and how do you power the whole process forward? How do you make reasonable plans? Sent goals?

Getting sales and marketing yourself effectively is actually a series of small steps. Once you've started taking those steps, you're on your way and the whole process has started.

THEN the REAL task is to continue that process day after day. I think many people -- myself included -- start new projects with lots of fire and determination. But as the days slip by, you tend to feel the drive you started with leaking away. It's not JUST about getting motivated in the first place...it's much more about staying motivated...and that's where goals come in.

As I've said previously -- I don't like marketing and sales. But I acknowledge that it's a critical part of doing this for a living. So I treat every dollar that comes in like another point in a "game" -- and I'm always looking for the high score.

I hope that makes sense. :)

I look forward to sending you the book whenever you feel you're ready, Mortimer.

David
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Dec 20, 2014 04:17AM)
I can only add my own praise for this book. Conversational in tone, witty in places, insightful throughout. Having just moved to a new market, I found it particularly intriguing and riddled with wisdom. David brings that same 'old time' work ethic to marketing that so many feel is missing from the arena of practising and performing, and it is a refreshing look at an essential segment of the business aspect of entertainment.

Inspired by this book, I've made a number of changes in my marketing plan recently, and I fully expect them to pay dividends - indeed, some already are.

If you are serious about working as an entertainer, take some time to read David's advice - you'll be glad you did.

Best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Dec 22, 2014 08:45PM)
[quote]On Dec 15, 2014, David Thiel wrote:
Thank you MG. I'd be delighted to send you a book.

To be completely honest: marketing mentalism isn't hard. Really -- it's not. But when people think about it, I think they may be seeing this huge mountain in front of them. Where do you start? Website? How do you attract clients...and when you have them...what do you send them...and how do you keep them...and how do you power the whole process forward? How do you make reasonable plans? Sent goals?

Getting sales and marketing yourself effectively is actually a series of small steps. Once you've started taking those steps, you're on your way and the whole process has started.

THEN the REAL task is to continue that process day after day. I think many people -- myself included -- start new projects with lots of fire and determination. But as the days slip by, you tend to feel the drive you started with leaking away. It's not JUST about getting motivated in the first place...it's much more about staying motivated...and that's where goals come in.

As I've said previously -- I don't like marketing and sales. But I acknowledge that it's a critical part of doing this for a living. So I treat every dollar that comes in like another point in a "game" -- and I'm always looking for the high score.

I hope that makes sense. :)

I look forward to sending you the book whenever you feel you're ready, Mortimer.

David [/quote]

And to add to the wisdom from the PDF...

In many cases the hardest time to prospect and seek new business is when you are busiest - at the moment when you feel you can kick back.

Having been in sales for over two decades the best and most consistent business is when you have a pipeline of present and future business lines up.
Message: Posted by: Mortimer Graves (Dec 23, 2014 09:51AM)
Yeah, complacency is poison; if you don't keep planting you can't expect the harvest to last.

If you don't keep it rolling even when you think you're doing well, you won't stay in business for long. It's never about reaching a stopping point, because if you stop, you're done. An object in motion, and all...
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Dec 23, 2014 10:25AM)
Great thoughts here. Couldn't have said them better myself. :)

Here's another idea that isn't in the book. (I guess remembering things you should have included is where second editions come from.)

We all get calls for dates where we are already booked. The way guys usually handle this is to tell the client that they are sorry but the date's sold. More on-the-ball guys will say "I'm sorry...the date is sold out. But can I send you information for another event you might be working on."

Even if I know I am sold out for that day, I will say "I think I may have something already on that date. Let me look into it. Meanwhile, I'll send you my package. You look it over and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Okay?"

This does a couple of things. First: it lets the client know you are in demand. Second: it nearly ENSURES that they will watch/read/contemplate your package because, as opposed to being one of the many performers that said "no" to them, you're one that just might say "yes." So they're interested in you.

When you call the client back to tell them that you're sold out (and don't leave it too long...no more than 20 minutes so that they can still chase down other options) you ask them specifically about other dates they might be working on. Does this always work? Not always. But SOMETIMES it does. And if it doesn't, you've at least made an impression on the client. There's a good chance that now that you are known by them, that they WILL call you for another show. Why? Because your response to them made you stand out.

Finally...do something that IS in the book: suggest someone else that you know will do a good job for them. This allows you to help another performer along (and hopefully get some of their referrals) AND lets you help the client -- which is always a good thing.

The "upside" of handling a "no" this way can really be significant...because with the standard "no" you -- and the client -- walk away with nothing.

David
Message: Posted by: peculiarone (Dec 26, 2014 09:09AM)
This is an awesome post. Besides the excellent information posted here, it showed me that I am not alone in the "disliking, procrastinating, just don't feel like doing it, mode. For me the calling time has to be 3-5 PM as I work fulltime and I simply cannot call anyone in the morning. I will be ordering the book today. I look forward to some good stuff.

thanks

Tony
Message: Posted by: peculiarone (Dec 26, 2014 09:28AM)
JUST HIT "PAY NOW" :)

PO
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Dec 29, 2014 01:25AM)
I am in Brazil today. Sheree and I are knocking another item off of the bucket list spending the next three weeks traveling through South America. (I post updates on my Facebook site if you're interested)...and this morning, I sent The Marketing Minded Mentalist out to a guy in Texas. (At least I hope I did...because the Internet is a little spotty here.)

Why am I telling you about this? That book sale allowed me to hit the "bestseller" goal mark I set when I wrote it.

I just want to thank each person who purchased this book. Thank you for the kind things you've said about it...and thank you for putting what you've read to work. I appreciate it. I'm honoured just seeing it nominated for Book of the Year. THANK YOU!

David
Message: Posted by: guitarmagic (Dec 29, 2014 03:52PM)
The Marketing Minded Mentalist:
1. Provides "reality orientation" for the student working their way towards success by having one re- examine their product(s)/performance pieces
2. Assists, motivates, inspires one towards creating a delineated process regarding a successful marketing plan in light of personal and commercial success
3. Is comprehensive, powerful, relevant, inspiring, giving workable "real world" concepts in the market
4. Thoroughly informative dealing with fresh, imperative aspects of marketing as they relate to financial success
5. Will set the standard in the industry as THE go-to book recommended by the many which assists others to create a SUCCESSFUL CAREER as a mentalist, magician, mystery artist.

But that's the impression I've got from my first, cursory read. Forgive me if I've missed something! :) If I did . . . I'm sure it was something powerful.

Its rocked my world!!!

Can't thank you enough David Thiel!!!
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Dec 29, 2014 11:24PM)
[quote]On Dec 29, 2014, guitarmagic wrote:
The Marketing Minded Mentalist:
1. Provides "reality orientation" for the student working their way towards success by having one re- examine their product(s)/performance pieces
2. Assists, motivates, inspires one towards creating a delineated process regarding a successful marketing plan in light of personal and commercial success
3. Is comprehensive, powerful, relevant, inspiring, giving workable "real world" concepts in the market
4. Thoroughly informative dealing with fresh, imperative aspects of marketing as they relate to financial success
5. Will set the standard in the industry as THE go-to book recommended by the many which assists others to create a SUCCESSFUL CAREER as a mentalist, magician, mystery artist.

But that's the impression I've got from my first, cursory read. Forgive me if I've missed something! :) If I did . . . I'm sure it was something powerful.

Its rocked my world!!!

Can't thank you enough David Thiel!!! [/quote]
I told you so!!! David is quite the world traveler!!!!
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Jan 9, 2015 03:21PM)
[quote]On Dec 29, 2014, guitarmagic wrote:
The Marketing Minded Mentalist:
1. Provides "reality orientation" for the student working their way towards success by having one re- examine their product(s)/performance pieces
2. Assists, motivates, inspires one towards creating a delineated process regarding a successful marketing plan in light of personal and commercial success
3. Is comprehensive, powerful, relevant, inspiring, giving workable "real world" concepts in the market
4. Thoroughly informative dealing with fresh, imperative aspects of marketing as they relate to financial success
5. Will set the standard in the industry as THE go-to book recommended by the many which assists others to create a SUCCESSFUL CAREER as a mentalist, magician, mystery artist.

But that's the impression I've got from my first, cursory read. Forgive me if I've missed something! :) If I did . . . I'm sure it was something powerful.

Its rocked my world!!!

Can't thank you enough David Thiel!!! [/quote]

Sheree and I are in South America at the moment where the Internet is quite spotty. So I have not been here much. But thank you for these kind words. They rocked my world too...so we are even, fella. :)

David
Message: Posted by: bond19 (Jan 21, 2015 07:57AM)
I know David's credentials are rock solid. But before I hit pay button can David, or perhaps others outside the USA who have read this book confirm it is not US centric in its approach?

Thanks in advance (and I'm in the UK)

Chris
Message: Posted by: bond19 (Jan 21, 2015 09:53AM)
I've just purchased and look forward to learning from a genuine good man who has worked hard and achieved his goal. I can see this being read many times over!

Thanks
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Jan 23, 2015 07:30PM)
You've already purchased the book, so I'll be interested to know what you think once you've worked with it.

I have never sold what I do in the UK, although I've sold to people from the UK. My honest sense is that there's no good reason why the material wouldn't work as well across the pond as it does here. It really is a book about how to sell mentalism...and how to market it.

I really didn't want it to be another "You Too Can Be Earning $70,000 Per Show With This Revolutionary Miracle System." That kind of idea smacks of "magic bullet" marketing -- the notion that there's a pill/course/guru that will cause money to fall into your lap from the heavens. IF this thing existed, I'd be all over it. But trust me. It doesn't.

A little luck doesn't hurt -- but nothing takes the place of hard work and focused planing. **sigh**

The book is about how to find clients and what to do with them once you've got them.

It's about developing habits that will lead you to turning strangers into clients.

It's about how to overcome the rather shocking notion that most of your potential clients really have no idea what a mentalist is.

It's about the importance of maximizing the power of a live face to face appointment -- and a step by step guide of how to work through that appointment so that, when you leave, the client will have a crystal clear idea of what mentalism is -- and the kind of show you perform.

It's also about how to set reasonable goals and then go about achieving them.

It's also about websites and marketing materials.

There's not a single thing in this book that I don't really do every day in my career. I really hate it when guys sell pie in the sky books, loaded with ideas that sound good on paper -- but fall apart when you try to apply it in the real world. Will the way I do things work for everyone? Maybe not...but they all have worked for me and that's a fact.

I am getting emails from guys who are using the book and are excited because it's actually working for them...and that's exciting for me because that's why I wrote the frickin' thing in the first place.

So...again: I will be very interested in hearing how you do with The Marketing Minded Mentalist. Please send an update or two. That goes for those of you who have had the book for a while. IS it working for you? Are there problems we can figure out together? I'm not asking so that I can get glowing reviews. I'm asking because I want this to be a system...a book...that works for anyone who applies it. If something isn't working...if something isn't clear...let's fix it.

So if YOU'VE been marketing yourself...what kind of progress have you made?

David

PS: I'm not an American. I'm Canadian. :)
Message: Posted by: Dr Weevil (Jan 26, 2015 07:22AM)
Having just read the book for the 3rd time last night, I think it's going to be entirely appropriate for UK performers: there isn't anything in there that makes me think 'that's not the same over here'. Personally I think it's a gold mine of solid practical advice.

One question, David: are there any MS Access tutorials or resources that you'd specifically recommend? I've been consulting Google and YouTube but still feel a bit lost!

Thanks,
Will
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Jan 26, 2015 02:37PM)
I'm very glad you feel the material will work in the UK, Will. I am of the same mind. And thank you also for the kind words about the book. I very much appreciate hearing them.

Here's the thing about Access: when I was developing my sales strategy...it was back in the 1980's. Databases were few and far in between. When the time came to computerize things, the options were still very limited...and since I was working with my certification in Access, doing an Access database to track the sales process was a very simple decision.

The reason I included the photo of my Access screen was so that people would get a sense of the categories I use:

* Client Name
* Organization Name
* Phone Number
* Email
* Mailing Address
* Materials Sent
* Notes...where all the rest of the information goes

There are now dozens of much simpler databases out there...many for the iPad that would function perfectly -- with a minimum of muss, fuss and bother. If I were you, I would not do Access unless you have other DBs that would justify the cost. I am much happier using materials on my iPad, which is instantly backed up on the Cloud...and more easily transported than my laptop. I also have the added convenience of having the same information synched with my iPhone.

As long as you have a database that can index by "Follow Up Dates", you're homefree.

If you're still keen on Access, I'd go to Lynda.com -- where there are specific video tutorials that show you how to do the specific things you need to do in a very short time frame. You can get memberships for around $25/month -- and one month should be more than enough to get a database up and running.

I'm not running Access down, of course. It does everything I need it to do...and I use it for many other projects. But I think respect for the time required to climb the learning curve needs to be considered as well. You have a whole lot more options open to you now than I had then.

Hope this is helpful. Please let me know if you have additional questions.

David
Message: Posted by: Dr Weevil (Jan 26, 2015 03:38PM)
David, thanks for your detailed and very helpful reply!

I have a copy of Office on my laptop from work, so it seemed natural to try to get to grips with Access. However, it sounds like something more basic will actually be a better idea. Great advice.

All the best,
Will
Message: Posted by: seamagu (Jan 26, 2015 05:16PM)
I just want to mention how great I've found this book.
It's an informative, funny and thought provoking book.
It has got me moving in the right direction.

Thanks David for that extra help, I really appreciate It.
Message: Posted by: seamagu (Jan 26, 2015 05:16PM)
I just want to mention how great I've found this book.
It's an informative, funny and thought provoking book.
It has got me moving in the right direction.

Thanks David for that extra help, I really appreciate It.
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Jan 26, 2015 05:53PM)
If you already have Access, Will, there may be no issue. Designing a basic Access database is very simple. Lynda.com can teach you how to create and define the categories in DESIGN VIEW less than a couple of minutes. Then just SAVE AS a FORM and you're done. (Don't get sidetracked by all the stuff you don't need to know. That's where people get confused...there's a great steaming pile of useless crap in Access that so many guys waste their time learning...and never EVER use.)

Take one more Lynda lesson on how Queries work -- and you will be set. Failing that, just hunt down a computer geek, throw them two bags of Doritos, and tell them what you want. If you show them the form in the book, they'll know exactly what you need. They can build it for you in just a few minutes...forms for input as well as some basic Queries. (I'm...mostly...kidding about the Doritos. But there are on-line services like Guru.com where techies will bid on creating what you need. It shouldn't cost much at all -- because it is painfully simple to anyone who knows even basic Access. The nice thing about using a pro for design is that they can easily re-define it or re-design it if you find there are changes you want made.)

To do the things you need to do with Access isn't complicated at all once you get the basics.

There are programs that translate Access DBs into formats that can be read on your phone, so you can source event details when you're on-site or on the road. They cost a couple of bucks. But you know what's even simpler? I just use my phone to take a photograph of each contract and that way when I get on-site I have ALL the details at my fingertips. I add them as a picture to my calendar on the performance day. What could be simpler? I can also show the photo to the client if they don't have their copy.

Low tech, I know. But it works.

As for backup...I just save a copy of the most recent DB in Dropbox at the end of each day...and make a copy on a stick each week. You need to do this...or something like it...no matter which way you wind up going with your DB. There's no DB known to man that isn't subject to corruption -- or more likely -- bad input from you. If you have a recent copy, you won't have to start all over. You're going to find that, as you use it, your DB is one of the most important tools you have. The very notion of having mine corrupted makes my knees sweat.

And Seamus: it is a sincere pleasure to lend you a hand. Anytime.

David
Message: Posted by: Dr Weevil (Jan 27, 2015 08:57AM)
So I made a test form last night, and managed to sort some test entries by follow up date! It wasn't pretty, but it worked! I think my next one will be for real.

Thanks so much for taking the time to help: it's very generous of you.

Will
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Jan 27, 2015 09:20AM)
Glad to hear it, Will. Pretty doesn't matter. "Working" matters. :)

In Access I've found the best date format to be the two digit year, followed by the month, followed by the day. Today would be 15-01-27. It makes for a fast bulletproof entry.

Play around with your template extensively before committing to it. Changing the format of data can be very risky once you've started using it. In all honesty. You are probably better off creating a whole new field than messing with existing formats.

Use drop down menus when you can for things you input all the time. This makes entry much faster (you only have to type the first letter or two) but more importantly, you eliminate the problem of input errors. You want the data to be free of errors so you can use it in the Queries. (who buys close up...who books in February, etc.) If the data is even slightly different. Access can't find it. If Access can't find it, you can't use it. The freedom to Query ANYTHING is where I find Access really shines.

Office is out now for the iPad. This makes it much easier...and as soon as I can figure out if it's possible to synch from my PC to myiPad (or not) it may just turn out to be perfect. Right now I just copy each revised DB to Dropbox and open it in my IPad.

So pleased to hear this is working for you, Will.

David
Message: Posted by: Darby (Jan 27, 2015 09:55AM)
Here's my 2 cents on Access.
Access is a Relational Database. What does that mean? It relates multiple tables for a very powerful capability. A typical example is a merchant. One table would have a record for each customer (name, address, phone number, email, etc.). A 2nd table would have all your products and services (name, inventory quantity, price, etc.). And then a 3rd table is used for your Sales, which has unique information, but also relates a customer to products/services during a specific sale (customer record number, products/services record numbers, date of sale, discount, salesman, etc.).

At the very big risk of oversimplifying things, a general rule is that if you don't design a true relational database to meet your needs, but just need a "flat file" (i.e., a single table with the categories like David discusses), the Access will do the job, but will likely be far more complex than necessary.

Check out the "database functions" of spreadsheets, like Excel, to do the job. You can have forms, data validation checks sorting, filtering, statistical (min, max, average), just like a database. You can more easily export and import to other tools (e.g., mobile devices) or use an online spreadsheet (e.g., Google sheets) with Google forms. Most people only envision spreadsheets as the bare table, but they can be the basis of very powerful capabilities with less complexity.

- Larry
Message: Posted by: bond19 (Jan 29, 2015 07:10AM)
David, the book is certainly relevant to UK markets and I have gotten tremendous value from reading it, and I'm only half way through!

So far it's an excellent resource for establishing yourself as a mentalist in your market, and then ways to build your business.

No fluff, just concise and easy to grasp methods direct from a successful working mind reader.

Thanks
Chris
Message: Posted by: Dr Weevil (Jan 29, 2015 07:29AM)
I feel much more confident in creating something that will work for me... thanks David & Darby! Yous are both awesome (or should that be 'awful'? ;-))

Will
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Feb 2, 2015 12:43PM)
That's outstanding advice, Darby. Thank you! Access is, indeed, a HUGE program. When I was learning it many moons ago I remember really needing to discipline myself to stay on track with the things I was learning and not venture into any of the many rabbit holes that present themselves. I appreciate you taking the time to share your DB expertise. Any other nuggets you choose to share would be most welcome.

I'd be delighted to know what you think once you've been through the whole book, Bond. Please let me know!

David
Message: Posted by: peculiarone (Feb 24, 2015 09:26AM)
[quote]On Dec 29, 2014, guitarmagic wrote:
The Marketing Minded Mentalist:
1. Provides "reality orientation" for the student working their way towards success by having one re- examine their product(s)/performance pieces
2. Assists, motivates, inspires one towards creating a delineated process regarding a successful marketing plan in light of personal and commercial success
3. Is comprehensive, powerful, relevant, inspiring, giving workable "real world" concepts in the market
4. Thoroughly informative dealing with fresh, imperative aspects of marketing as they relate to financial success
5. Will set the standard in the industry as THE go-to book recommended by the many which assists others to create a SUCCESSFUL CAREER as a mentalist, magician, mystery artist.

But that's the impression I've got from my first, cursory read. Forgive me if I've missed something! :) If I did . . . I'm sure it was something powerful.

Its rocked my world!!!

Can't thank you enough David Thiel!!! [/quote]

I wholeheartedly concur. This book will save you a lot of time. Marketing and sales is something that I really struggle with. Have tried to read sales and marketing books but soon it's ZZZzzz. David has distilled the requisite information and applied it specifically for magical performers (I believe you can use this information to book shows even if you're not a mentalist). It seems that he has covered everything you need to know.

The only stipulation is that you must 'do it'. The book will be useless if you don't apply what you learn. Calling people IS hard work, but with David's book your job just got a whole lot easier. What a minimal investment for maximum returns. Don't miss this!!

Tony
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Mar 12, 2015 10:21AM)
Thank you, Tony.

I've often thought about these motivational speakers who whip into your life and then fade away. They get people all worked up, tell them nothing is impossible and pocket their cheques go away. (I've always wanted to suggest that IF nothing is impossible, they should prove it by dribbling a football.) But when they go away, the fire of what they've had to say cools because reality comes crashing down. They provide short-term motivation...the long term stuff is up to the individual.

The trick (forgive the expression) really is to do it on the first day, and REMIND yourself to REMEMBER why you're doing it on each day that follows. And then just do it.

A critical part of the process is to track your goals as you work toward them. Seeing progress is always a wonderful thing...and reminds you you're going somewhere. That's important because without goals you have no way to measure where you are in comparison to where you want to go. It's like being dumped in the middle of the ocean, surrounded by water. How do you know which way to swim without any terms of reference?

In the early days, shortly after I went full time in 1990, I had a stock picture of a man tearing up the mortgage on his house. That became my goal. I looked at it every day. We paid off our house over twelve years ago. It was a literal goal that was made real. Ideas...goals...things you write down have incredible power if you buy into them and look for every opportunity to make them happen.

The new goal was for Sheree and me to see the world and we've been joyfully working on that one for over a decade now.

Doing it for a little while doesn't ensure success...but at the risk of sounding corny...doing it every day assures progress. Progress = Success in the long run.

So thank you for your words and your kind reviews. Now get out there and make your life happen! :)

David
Message: Posted by: francis farrell (Jun 11, 2015 09:35AM)
PS: I'm not an American. I'm Canadian.

Well, that means you are North American! Somehow the USA seems to have appropriated the entire continent! After all, people from Central and South America are Americans, too ;)
Message: Posted by: Lar (Jun 26, 2015 03:05PM)
I recently read 'The Marketing Minded Mentalist' and I can confidently say that it is going to have a profound impact on how I approach the marketing and business end of what I do, in much the same way that Ken Weber's 'Maximum Entertainment' changed my approach to performances.

This is solid, practical wisdom from a guy who has been performing Mentalism for a living for years. David has a no-nonsense writing style which really cuts to the heart of the matter.

For anyone that is thinking of turning what they do into a REAL business then books like this are invaluable. Make no mistake, if you want to do more shows, raise your public profile and command more money for your services, then there's a lot of hard work ahead of you. TMMM though will help your sharpen your focus, so that your time is spent on doing the things that will have the most impact on turning what you do into a real business.

Very nice work David - two thumbs up from me.

Regards,
Lar.
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Jul 21, 2015 11:31AM)
Lar: Thank you so much for the wonderful review. It makes me smile.

I greatly enjoyed getting to know you at the PEA convention. You have outstanding ideas and it's an pleasure to play a part in helping you take your career wherever you want it to go.

I hear from people who have purchased the book fairly often with follow up questions or updates on how they're making out with marketing themselves via PM and email. Each contact makes me smile because it means that the book is having an impact on careers -- which is the only reason for it to exist.

If you've bought TMMM and you'd like to share how it's working for you here...or via PM or email, please feel free. The summer is a very busy time for me, but I will respond as soon as I can.

I'd really like to get a dialogue happening about the BUSINESS of marketing mentalism. It's uniquely different than marketing magic.

The latest greatest effects are wonderful of course. But for those who what to start making money from what they do, starting to market themselves may be the greatest effect of all.

David
Message: Posted by: Twisted Mentat (Aug 23, 2015 09:02AM)
I really like this book. Especially inspiring words on the last pages. The book has a strong and positive effect, even if English - not your native language and marketing techniques are a little different in your country. When I lost the inspiration this book and some other things help me restore my inspiration.
Message: Posted by: tctahoe (Aug 23, 2015 01:46PM)
Not sure how I missed this one...But time to rectify that oversight.
Message: Posted by: RickThibau (Aug 27, 2015 04:17PM)
Can't checkout on the website, of course I wanna read it! ;) I will keep trying until it's fixed!
Best regards from Brazil!
Message: Posted by: takeachance (Aug 30, 2015 07:25PM)
Can't add to cart or checkout. Any ideas as to what is wrong with the site. May need to take a look.
Message: Posted by: takeachance (Aug 31, 2015 09:29AM)
OK just got through, excellant, looking forward to reading this
Message: Posted by: RickThibau (Sep 3, 2015 08:02AM)
I really enjoyed reading the book - I wish I knew some of these stuff 11 years ago. I'll definitely apply things I weren't already conscious of. Economy here in my country made the purchase feel more costly than it actually should be, it was worth it anyway. The motivational page near the end also got my flames burning higher!!

I don't know if you guys talked about ways of keeping a database updated and synchronized here, I've been using Evernote for a few weeks now and so far is the best solution for my needs. I enjoy pasting links, pdfs, emails and there are reminder functions and the integration with all I need. Here's a simple Evernote tutorial if anyone is interested: http://techtalkamerica.com/all-about-evernote-2015-live/

Best regards from Brazil!
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Sep 3, 2015 05:11PM)
Sorry to have been absent so long. It's been a very busy season.

I was unaware of problems with the website. I spoke with the admins and apparently there was a hiccup with the PayPal link...but the issues have been fixed now. If anyone else has trouble ordering, please let me know via PM.

Rick...I very much appreciated the kind words you have shared here. I've never sold what I do or performed in Brazil...so it's wonderful to hear that you see an application for some of the ideas I suggested.

I'm also very glad that you found worth in the motivational page. I really wasn't sure if people would benefit from it or not. I put it in...and took it out again several times. On the one hand, I didn't want it to feel "strange" to the readers...but then I started to think about all of the motivational speakers I've seen. They are great at whipping people up. But then they pocket their money and leave town. I finally decided that one of the most important components for a book on self marketing would be providing a tool or two to KEEP the person motivated to go out every day and do the work...because it IS hard work.

Performing for a living is a tough proposition and it calls for tough, determined and committed people. Talk to anyone who does this for a living -- or part of their living and I'm sure they'll tell you the same thing. I saw a play at the Edmonton Fringe Festival last month where the main character stood up on a chair and yelled at the top of his voice "You guys don't get it! We have to work our ***es off to avoid a 9-5 job."

We talked about databases earlier in this thread and there was some excellent information shared.

Here's the bottom line: IF your database works for you and you can keep track of each client and were you are in the sales process with each one, you've got a winner. I have used Access for years now and I'm comfortable with it, although it feels a little clunky when I have to transfer the information to my phone...so I may look into Evernote. Thank you.

You know what I've taken to doing? I take a picture of the client agreement with my phone. That way when I go out to do a show I have the "agreement" with me...and I just delete the picture afterward. Low tech, I know...but it works and I don't need to remember any extra paper.

David
Message: Posted by: bond19 (Sep 5, 2015 01:44PM)
David I'd look into Giggio. Once you've had a play, its quite intuitive to use.
Message: Posted by: Natural Mystic (Sep 7, 2015 10:25AM)
Check out the gig management software for musicians called The Bandleader.

http://www.thebandleadersoftware.com/index.php
Message: Posted by: David Thiel (Sep 8, 2015 03:14PM)
I looked at Giggio a while back. I'm sure it's fine software...but here's the thing: if it's something I base my business on, I want to own it. It's important to me that it be completely under my control all the time. When I was researching this, my understanding was that it was a month by month subscription...which made me feel very uncomfortable. If it belongs to someone else and something happens to it? Oi!

Understand that I'm not dissing the software or the company that makes it. Not at all. To be honest, I don't know a great deal about Giggio because my research stopped when I realized that I couldn't own it.

Here's the thing with client contact software: for my purposes it needs to satisfy only TWO basic things:

1) It needs to help be keep track of the clients I'm working with. I want a snapshot of each relationship: what I've discussed with them, where we're at in terms of the next show...and what materials I've already sent.

2) It needs to tell me when I need to be in contact with them again, since my database is sorted by the "follow up date."

That's it. I don't need to mass email out to hundreds (thousands?)of potential customers. I just need to take care of the existing people I'm building a relationship with and take good care of them. Sending impersonal emails out would run counter to my goal of dealing personally with people.

I've played around with several options...but I have yet to see something that is as simple to run as what I'm using...clunky though it may feel at times. Keep in mind that I'm getting old, set in my ways and I don't much like the notion of hopping onto another learning curve. :)

Again -- I'm not trying to run down other options...just saying that I will be delighted when I find a way to synch my Access Database seamlessly with my iPad and iPhone.

David