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Topic: David Penns Mystery Solved
Message: Posted by: Wayne Fox (Oct 30, 2014 07:01PM)
This is the one I have been waiting for!

Here's the link to David Penn’s Mystery Solved at World Magic Shop:

https://www.worldmagicshop.com/david-penns-mystery-solved/

Here is the link to the trailer on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGiUacmnOYY

At the LADs Convention David Penn said he was releasing his version of signed card to impossible location called Mystery Solved. An instantly clear (on all sides) switching box! Since demonstrating it there has been a lot of speculation online.

The card to clear box is great but personally, I am very excited about the mentalism possibilities and Peter Turner’s insights on this.

Cheers guys

Wayne Fox
Message: Posted by: Matthew U (Oct 30, 2014 07:02PM)
I must say, this thing is totally awesome and the first time I saw this, I didn't believe it! This is what other things should have been!

I know I used to work at World Magic Shop, but let me tell you guys, I'm not saying this because of that, I'm saying this because of how genius it is!!!

Matthew
Message: Posted by: Nojrraf (Oct 30, 2014 07:03PM)
Thanks for posting this Wayne

Mystery Solved will be shipping to dealers Worldwide a few days before Black Friday.

 World Magic Shop has this on pre-order and you will automatically receive, for free, Craig Petty’s Parlour DVD as a nice little extra.

We had a great time filming the instructional DVD, which Guest Stars Peter Turner, talking about the mentalism possibilities as well as the showcased, clear card to box.

Thank you also, to all the performers and artistes that got a chance to see this during it’s development and provided quotes.

All the best
Jon (Off The Sticks) Farr  
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Oct 30, 2014 07:20PM)
Incredible, I think the quest to find the best card in box ever has ended.
Message: Posted by: Sashac (Oct 30, 2014 07:22PM)
Ordered.
Message: Posted by: mike donoghue (Oct 30, 2014 07:26PM)
David did this on me several times a few weeks ago & it looked fantastic. Well done David you can be proud of this & know that everyone WILL BE USING IT. Mike donoghue
Message: Posted by: James Diamond (Oct 30, 2014 07:35PM)
I'll put my order through today. Looks great!
Message: Posted by: Adam Joseph (Oct 30, 2014 11:48PM)
Looks amazing! Almost certainly going to get this.

A few questions:

Anyone know if the box is examinable at the end? I realize that it doesn't need to be examined because it looks so fair, but I'm just curious. My guess is that it's not really examinable (otherwise that fact would have been included in the description), so I'm just wondering if you're left dirty at all? Would you feel comfortable leaving the box on the table while you did another trick or do you basically have to pocket it after you reveal the card/billet/etc.? Also, anyone know what the reset is like on this? Is the reset similar to the kennedy mystery box?
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Oct 31, 2014 12:22AM)
Question: Since Penn has been known to make questionable decisions at times in the recent past, WHY did he choose to use the EXACT same music for his promo as John Sheets newest QB3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkTVw9FjonE

C'mon David - you can do better. A little originality maybe?

Enough already.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Oct 31, 2014 12:26AM)
Also how does this differ from David Regal's Clarity Box? I know that's an obvious question but curious.
Message: Posted by: pepka (Oct 31, 2014 12:32AM)
I've used a variety of boxes over the years, my current favorite being Kohler's Lightning Box. I didn't jump on Clarity Box because I'm not 100% sold on the idea of having the card visible. This DOES look fantastic though.
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Oct 31, 2014 12:47AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, saysold1 wrote:
Question: Since Penn has been known to make questionable decisions at times in the recent past, WHY did he choose to use the EXACT same music for his promo as John Sheets newest QB3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkTVw9FjonE

C'mon David - you can do better. A little originality maybe?

Enough already. [/quote]

I don't see the problem with using the same music? It's probably some royalty free track that is sold or given away as trailer music... and as far as I'm aware, this is 100 times better than the clarity box because it is a lot more compact, and there is no sticker on the box so it is 100% clear in the spectator's mind
Message: Posted by: Adam Paul (Oct 31, 2014 12:48AM)
Ok, that looks REALLY good! Will be pre-ordering this.

What are the angles like? I'm guessing not as good as the Mystery Box, before, during and after the switch and possibly similar angles to the Clarity Box before, while its on the table?

Can anyone (preferably David) come on and discuss this please?
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 31, 2014 01:42AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Adam Paul wrote:
Ok, that looks REALLY good! Will be pre-ordering this.
[/quote]
You people never learn. :rolleyes:

Two words: hidden hand
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Oct 31, 2014 01:56AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Adam Paul wrote:

Ok, that looks REALLY good! Will be pre-ordering this.

What are the angles like? I'm guessing not as good as the Mystery Box, before, during and after the switch and possibly similar angles to the Clarity Box before, while its on the table?

Can anyone (preferably David) come on and discuss this please? [/quote]

Before David comes on, let me give it a try. ;)

After watching the demo vid, the 'Mystery Solved' box cannot be examined by the spectator (before, during & after the effect) nor can it be left on the table in its natural upright position. Whereas the 'Clarity Box' has the same limitations but can be left on the table in its natural upright position.

And . . .

The 'Mystery Box' is a wooden box that can be left on the table (before, during & after the effect) and can be handled as well as casually examined by the spectator after the effect.

Hence my personal opinion on the 'Mystery Solved' box, as compared to the other two boxes discussed, has much more limitations/ restriction than the other two boxes. Also, as seen in the demo vid, after the effect is over, one needs to get rid of the box at the earliest.

Sorry, not my cup of tea.

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 31, 2014 02:02AM)
I saw this live and wasn't impressed at all. Far too many restrictions.

The dump out looks really unnatural as you'll need to keep one of the sides of the box hidden from view. Check out the vid to see what I mean.

It's anything but 'mystery solved'.

Ustaad nailed it.

No doubt all the pre-order lemmings will be lining up to jump off the cliff of disappointment. :rolleyes:
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Oct 31, 2014 02:15AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Adam Joseph wrote:
Looks amazing! Almost certainly going to get this.

A few questions:

Anyone know if the box is examinable at the end? I realize that it doesn't need to be examined because it looks so fair, but I'm just curious. My guess is that it's not really examinable (otherwise that fact would have been included in the description), so I'm just wondering if you're left dirty at all? Would you feel comfortable leaving the box on the table while you did another trick or do you basically have to pocket it after you reveal the card/billet/etc.? Also, anyone know what the reset is like on this? Is the reset similar to the kennedy mystery box? [/quote]

If you look at the very last, close up photo of the box in hand that appears very briefly at the end of the trailer, it seems to give a pretty good idea of what you'll be getting, and should answer at least some of your questions. If that's indeed what this is, it's a new use of a very old idea, and Ustaad's comments will be right on. But kudos to the marketing team for leaving it in the trailer.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Oct 31, 2014 02:26AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:

[b]If you look at the very last, close up photo of the box in hand that appears very briefly at the end of the trailer, it seems to give a pretty good idea of what you'll be getting[/b], and should answer at least some of your questions. If that's indeed what this is, it's a new use of a very old idea, and Ustaad's comments will be right on. But kudos to the marketing team for leaving it in the trailer. [/quote]

That is exactly what I saw and thus formed my educated opinion. ;)

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: Peter_turner (Oct 31, 2014 02:42AM)
Let me add something (before anyone chimes up I wasn't paid to be on the DVD and I have no affiliation with wms) the thing I think I like the most about this is the load feature.

I would go as far as saying a big advantage (if you are bold) is the participant can sign a card or a billet and that gets dropped in and is on display. Using it for a prediction or a card to location I feel is wasted. There are many utilities the load feature enables that the standard boxes don't.

I don't think there should be a worry about examining the box, if you are putting that much emphasis on your props then so will your participants (imho). The box is just there to facilitate in stopping you touch whatever is inside. If a participant Is asking to look at the box then that is the fault of the performer not the box.

I don't use props and I liked this.

Then again what does my opinion count for, I'm not here to sway anyone's opinion as I gain nothing from it.

Pete x
Message: Posted by: Raj Suman (Oct 31, 2014 03:31AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Peter_turner wrote:

I don't use props and I liked this.

[/quote]

So in summary you like it but you would never actually use it.
Message: Posted by: Peter_turner (Oct 31, 2014 03:40AM)
When did I say that? You're spectating.

Look at the quote I gave the product x
Message: Posted by: Peter_turner (Oct 31, 2014 03:41AM)
This is one of the only ones I have liked for sometime just because I have an effect that fits it perfect x
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Oct 31, 2014 03:57AM)
Are the cards / billets MCF'd or folded in half?
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 31, 2014 04:12AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Peter_turner wrote:
When did I say that? You're spectating.

Look at the quote I gave the product x [/quote]
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. So you will be using this.

It's also worth investigating the work on The Glass Box Prediction by Al Mann and Devin Knight. You could do what you're saying without a gimmicked box which is fully examinable before, during and after. Very powerful stuff.
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 31, 2014 04:23AM)
I think it would be very odd for someone to ask to inspect the box in a mentalism context. But having said that, I'm not quite sure it qualifies as the sort of everyday object I would consider suitable for a mentalism performance.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 31, 2014 04:26AM)
The glass box prediction involves more than one billet though doesn't it...
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 31, 2014 04:36AM)
Surely Mystery Solved and Glass Box Prediction are two distinct products? The glass box prediction was principally designed to be used for Headline Predictions. Would Mystery Solved survive being left in the possession of the client until the evening of the show?
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 31, 2014 04:45AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Surely Mystery Solved and Glass Box Prediction are two distinct products? The glass box prediction was principally designed to be used for Headline Predictions. Would Mystery Solved survive being left in the possession of the client until the evening of the show? [/quote]
Glass Box Prediction is a lot more than just a prediction. That's just one effect. Have you read all the literature produced for it? Probably not.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Oct 31, 2014 04:57AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:

I think it would be very odd for someone to ask to inspect the box in a mentalism context.[/quote]

Yes. But it would also be very odd to get rid of the evidence in a hurry, like in this case. This in any case is an odd working prop i.e. after the job is done the prop is to be left lying on its side.

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 31, 2014 05:00AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Surely Mystery Solved and Glass Box Prediction are two distinct products? The glass box prediction was principally designed to be used for Headline Predictions. Would Mystery Solved survive being left in the possession of the client until the evening of the show? [/quote]
Glass Box Prediction is a lot more than just a prediction. That's just one effect. Have you read all the literature produced for it? Probably not. [/quote]

What a strange comment? Of course I have read all of the literature produced for it. I bought it nearly ten years ago. It was designed and marketed very specifically as a headline prediction. Still is. It can obviously be used for any on-stage prediction, but that hardly makes it the natural alternative to Mystery Solved.
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 31, 2014 05:06AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Ustaad wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:

I think it would be very odd for someone to ask to inspect the box in a mentalism context.[/quote]

Yes. But it would also be very odd to get rid of the evidence in a hurry, like in this case. This in any case is an odd working prop i.e. after the job is done the prop is to be left lying on its side.

:xmas: [/quote]

I don't understand what you mean about getting rid of the evidence in a hurry? Once you've tipped the prediction out of the box, the box should cease to be of any interest to your audience, so it would be completely natural to put it in your pocket. Why would you leave it lying on its side?

That's not to say I see this as a natural fit in a mentalism routine. I think we should stick to objects that are found in the real world, and I'm not sure that a clear perspex box qualifies. However, Peter knows his onions and I'm sure he has something devilish up his sleeve using the product.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 31, 2014 05:20AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Surely Mystery Solved and Glass Box Prediction are two distinct products? The glass box prediction was principally designed to be used for Headline Predictions. Would Mystery Solved survive being left in the possession of the client until the evening of the show? [/quote]
Glass Box Prediction is a lot more than just a prediction. That's just one effect. Have you read all the literature produced for it? Probably not. [/quote]

What a strange comment? Of course I have read all of the literature produced for it. I bought it nearly ten years ago. It was designed and marketed very specifically as a headline prediction. Still is. It can obviously be used for any on-stage prediction, but that hardly makes it the natural alternative to Mystery Solved. [/quote]
That explains it. If it was 10 years ago then you haven't yet read Glass Box Revisited & Other Predictions. If you had, you'd know why it's a better alternative.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 31, 2014 05:25AM)
...jamie, how do you suggest using this new box with the three predictions needed then?

And I would say martin is easily better read than yourself, so you should take on board his points..
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 31, 2014 05:27AM)
Iain, if you were better read you'd know it doesn't need three predictions.

Now back in your (glass) box.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 31, 2014 05:34AM)
I cant...david Blaine is still in it..
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 31, 2014 05:35AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, IAIN wrote:
I cant...david Blaine is still in it.. [/quote]
:lol: Good one!
Message: Posted by: James Diamond (Oct 31, 2014 05:35AM)
It's funny how "fully examinable" is such a big thing these days.

When you know the moves, and have it mixed perfectly with good patter which not only keep the pace moving, but it keeps them engaged with not just the visuals but also in processing the audio for what you're saying, there's just no need.

Who's handing out for examination Double Lifts, The Invisible Deck etc.?

Just do it, and get on with it. The more it's not an issue for you, it won't be an issue for the audience.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 31, 2014 05:41AM)
Lets not forget the sanda panda box..
Message: Posted by: wally (Oct 31, 2014 05:41AM)
Please make up my mind for me David Penn’s Mystery Solved or Kennedy mystery box 2. this is for my adult close up. magicwalsh@gmail.com
Message: Posted by: James Diamond (Oct 31, 2014 05:54AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, wally wrote:
Please make up my mind for me David Penn’s Mystery Solved or Kennedy mystery box 2. this is for my adult close up. magicwalsh@gmail.com [/quote]

I'd say Mystery Solved from their point of view, looks more fair. (only cause it's "completely clear")
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 31, 2014 05:56AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, James Diamond wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, wally wrote:
Please make up my mind for me David Penn’s Mystery Solved or Kennedy mystery box 2. this is for my adult close up. magicwalsh@gmail.com [/quote]

I'd say Mystery Solved from their point of view, looks more fair. (only cause it's "completely clear") [/quote]
Brilliant, recommending a product that hasn't been released and you haven't even seen or used.

You've just lost all credibility with that one post. :rolleyes:
Message: Posted by: James Diamond (Oct 31, 2014 06:02AM)
Relax Jamie.

As I clearly said, that was based purely on the aesthetics of it, nothing else.

Obviously none of us own it yet, so that parts a given. Common sense I would have thought? ...
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Oct 31, 2014 06:04AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:

[b]I don't understand what you mean about getting rid of the evidence in a hurry?[/b]
[/quote]

[b]The BOX.[/b]

[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:

[b]However, Peter knows his onions and I'm sure he has something devilish up his sleeve using the product[/b]. [/quote]

Sorry, in no way I would like to sound rude, nor is my intention to show any disrespect towards Peter. All I want to say is, Peter is simply trying to push a prop that doesn't live up to the expectation in my personal view (it’s OK with me if nobody cares for my views ;) ) when compared to already released similar much more logical and effective props. And as for Peter knowing his onions, it doesn't mean that one underestimate others.

OK, once again coming to your point of view and I humbly quote:-

[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:

[b]I think it would be very odd for someone to ask to inspect the box in a mentalism context.[/b][/quote]

3SIXTY By Wayne Dobson is another similar prop in competition with Mystery Solved. 3SIXTY boasts of being fully examinable at the end (which is also a major selling point in my view). Would you still say the above for Dobson's prop?

[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, James Diamond wrote:

[b]It's funny how "fully examinable" is such a big thing these days.[/b]
[/quote]

This is exactly what 3SIXTY boasts of.

:xmas:
P.S. If one compares the two fresh releases i.e. 3SIXTY By Wayne Dobson and Mystery Solved by David Penn, I would personally pick the 3SIXTY in spite of it needing a little table management. I am restricting myself by saying table management so as not to expose the working of 3SIXTY.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 31, 2014 06:09AM)
I find all the excitement over a transparent box to be a little odd...do any of them beat an ostin clip or sankey's paperclipped? You can easily ring in both very naturally..
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 31, 2014 06:09AM)
I'm so glad you're back at the café Ustaad.

All I want to do is applaud your thinking.

:applause:
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (Oct 31, 2014 06:11AM)
I don't think it matters about ditching the box quickly. The box is merely a holder for the card. The card is what is most important and not a clear box. Why should the clear box be left out if it is just a 'clear box' and thus 'empty'? It has done its job and no longer needed. Not an issue.

Clever box! :)
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 31, 2014 06:13AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, IAIN wrote:
I find all the excitement over a transparent box to be a little odd...do any of them beat an ostin clip or sankey's paperclipped? You can easily ring in both very naturally.. [/quote]
You just cut through the c*** and delivered a dose of reality.

Great point Iain.
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 31, 2014 06:15AM)
Ustaad,

By editing my comments you are misrepresenting them. My reply to you was completely separate from my comment about Peter, so I wasn't comparing you in any manner, shape or form.

But to address your point again: in a mentalism context I don't think the audience should be suspecting the box, so getting rid of it in a hurry shouldn't cause suspicion. Stick it in your pocket and move on to opening the prediction. Why would you do anything else?
Message: Posted by: James Diamond (Oct 31, 2014 06:28AM)
Ustaad, even though 3SIXTY being fully examinable " is exactly what 3SIXTY boasts of", what I'm trying to say is it doesn't need to be.

If the heat is on a clear box instead of the prediciton, then something isn't being done correctly. It's really no different to people asking to see the paperclip in paperclipped (which I use regularly).
Message: Posted by: warren (Oct 31, 2014 06:33AM)
Looks really good and for what it's worth who cares about the music it's the effect we as magicians are interested in lol
Message: Posted by: corindaman (Oct 31, 2014 06:43AM)
I just think it is a very odd way to hold a box. Normally it would be at fingertips?
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Oct 31, 2014 06:55AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:

Ustaad,

By editing my comments you are misrepresenting them. My reply to you was completely separate from my comment about Peter, so I wasn't comparing you in any manner, shape or form.
[/quote]

OK, point taken. Thank you.

[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:

But to address your point again: in a mentalism context I don't think the audience should be suspecting the box, so getting rid of it in a hurry shouldn't cause suspicion. Stick it in your pocket and move on to opening the prediction. Why would you do anything else? [/quote]

So may I ask why the great Mr. Dobson leave the box for the spectator to examin?

OK, just forget it, I will reply. ;) I think it is to simply strengthen the illusion in the minds of the spectator that nothing hanky-panky is going on. Rather, in fact this would be more applicable for the magician than the novice audience. It is, IMHO, primarily meant to lure the magician in purchasing the effect/ prop.

We are simply the supporters of the creator(s) (whom at times we don’t even know personally) depending how much we like one from the other.

There is never an end to this and I certainly would not like to get into a lengthy debate. I have given my personal view with logic & reason - May be I am right, may be I am wrong. :)

Thank you.

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 31, 2014 07:17AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Ustaad wrote:

We are simply the supporters of the creator(s) (whom at times we don’t even know personally) depending how much we like one from the other.

:xmas: [/quote]
Good point. David Penn is a master of marketing and spin. That's why he recruited Peter to promote the product, to widen the potential audience who will buy because his name is attached.
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Oct 31, 2014 07:33AM)
I just remember the bending knives gimmick.
in my personal opinion a waste of money.
for mystery solved I see a not convincing
manouver when removing the folded card.
is unnatural and suspect way of doing this.

:spoon:
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 31, 2014 07:41AM)
Ustaad,

Mr Dobson is a magician. I'm commenting on this from the perspective of a mentalist. For all I know, it may be essential in magic for boxes to be examined. I simply have no idea.

Regards, Martin.
Message: Posted by: GeneTony (Oct 31, 2014 07:45AM)
Some of you are being WAY too critical. This is a brilliant use of an ancient magic concept, and one that easily deceives spectators. It looks really innocent and unsuspicious. Great idea Dave!
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 31, 2014 07:45AM)
I'm surprised they didn't do a wooden box version so that certain magicians can "magically transform" it into the transparent one...
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 31, 2014 08:01AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, IAIN wrote:
I'm surprised they didn't do a wooden box version so that certain magicians can "magically transform" it into the transparent one... [/quote]
Brilliant! :rotf:
Message: Posted by: bobgill (Oct 31, 2014 08:24AM)
Here's an idea: wait until it comes out, go along to a convention (thereby supporting magic in general) and see it demmed, then make an informed opinion?
I hate the !@#$%iness in magic: pages of speculation before the thing's even out, seems unfair and unnecessary to me.
I really find the Forum useful and interesting - but have to sift through the 90% guessing game: thinly veiled attempts to hound the originator into disclosing his methodology and discover 'how it works', equipping the reader to either rip it off, or loftily dismiss it as "it's only IT" or "not another BA principle".
You're grown-ups, no one's making you order the thing.

My view, for what it's worth, after 20 years of doing the card in box, using a myriad of different models.

The magician in me is fascinated by the challenge of having a clear box, with the climax card on view throughout. I got Clarity Box because it was so clean, and remains excellent for stand-up use. For close up use, however....

Take another look at the Tommy Wonder L&L DVD with his presentation of the Card In Box within the contact of an Ambitious Card. The theatricality is faultless - he builds anticipation and genuine amazement when he simply glances at the wooden box on the table and allows the spectators the time to realise where the card might be. This makes a strong case for an opaque box. I also loved Sankey's Paperclipped, but there is something to consider about the impact of having the revelation a surprise rather than signalling it with the clear box. As ever, the impact on the audience and how you involve them in the routine is, for me, the decider - rather than the technology involved.

That said, I'm sure I'll end up getting both this and Wayne Dobson's 3Sixty. But that's because I love boys toys. And it has to be admired that David Penn's handling of this box looks very clean. Plus, he'll almost certainly have put some workable, thorough routines on DVD with it.

My own favourite clear box version is Mark Southworth's 'The Box'. Beautifully deceptive and clean-looking. And no, you can't hand it out for examination and no, it doesn't matter. If they give any thought to the box with such a strong climax, you haven't done it justice, and you present puzzles rather than wonder-making entertainment.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Oct 31, 2014 08:24AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Ustaad,

Mr Dobson is a magician. I'm commenting on this from the perspective of a mentalist. For all I know, it may be essential in magic for boxes to be examined. I simply have no idea.

Regards, Martin. [/quote]

Hmm! OK, That is very reasonable reason. I agree. :)

Thank you.

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: MagicDamo (Oct 31, 2014 08:33AM)
I am pretty sure I know the method, if I'm right I think it's a good creative idea and I expect that many people will be pleased with this item. The way you dump the card out of the Mystery Solved box will fly straight by the spectators and putting the box back in your pocket is not suspicious at all as the box is no longer needed at that point, besides where else would they expect you to put the box. I already have the Clarity box which I am pleased with and therefore I will not be purchasing this but if I didn't already have the Clarity Box then I would be tempted.
Message: Posted by: Willie mcgregor (Oct 31, 2014 08:39AM)
Well said Bobgill
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 31, 2014 08:53AM)
Mystery Solved is the new Hidden Hand.

Let's hype it to the point of bursting then allow the pin prick of reality to pop the balloon of pre-order lunacy.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Oct 31, 2014 09:04AM)
I don't post a whole lot on here anymore. I just got the email announcing this and clicked on the trailer.

I think it's brilliant. Excellent use of an old principle. Great for use in a formal close up show.

As to the dumping looking "unnatural", that's silly. You're holing the box in your hand and just dumping out a card. Why does it have to be "at the fingertips"? The spectator can clearly see the box is empty.

And examinable, shmamible. Who cares? Do you hand your card to wallet out to spectators so they can examine it after you produce a card? No! For this, you dump the card out, the box is empty, you pocket it. Makes total sense. The spectator doesn't care about the box because they believe the card came from it. What's to examine? The box is totally irrelevant at that point.

Anyway, I love the compactness and elegance of it. Really, really nice. One of the few props of late that I'm actually considering ordering.
Message: Posted by: magicinsight (Oct 31, 2014 09:17AM)
For the price I think it would have been better to provide an ungimmicked identical plastic/acrylic box so you can do a simple sw...h in your pocket if needed.

Michael
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 31, 2014 09:18AM)
I wonder if jay sankey will release an omni-paperclip?
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Oct 31, 2014 09:20AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Ustaad wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Adam Paul wrote:

Ok, that looks REALLY good! Will be pre-ordering this.

What are the angles like? I'm guessing not as good as the Mystery Box, before, during and after the switch and possibly similar angles to the Clarity Box before, while its on the table?

Can anyone (preferably David) come on and discuss this please? [/quote]

Before David comes on, let me give it a try. ;)

After watching the demo vid, the 'Mystery Solved' box cannot be examined by the spectator (before, during & after the effect) nor can it be left on the table in its natural upright position. Whereas the 'Clarity Box' has the same limitations but can be left on the table in its natural upright position.

And . . .

The 'Mystery Box' is a wooden box that can be left on the table (before, during & after the effect) and can be handled as well as casually examined by the spectator after the effect.

Hence my personal opinion on the 'Mystery Solved' box, as compared to the other two boxes discussed, has much more limitations/ restriction than the other two boxes. Also, as seen in the demo vid, after the effect is over, one needs to get rid of the box at the earliest.

Sorry, not my cup of tea.

:xmas: [/quote]

Interesting. Thanks as always Narendra.
Message: Posted by: Rus ANDREWS (Oct 31, 2014 10:09AM)
Hi All

I have seen this, its a great bit of kit with so much potential, the ideas mentalism wise have been spinning around in my head, I have to agree with peter turner that the loading for this is brilliant.

As for the examinable bit, whats to examine? you show a clear box, place a folded card in it, perform a bit of muggle magic, card vanishes from your magical palms, attention is guided to the clear box that has had a folded card in it from the start ( which they have been able to see from the start ) you tip it out and hand it to the spec.... they can see the box is empty, Whats to examine?

Great stuff David....

Best

R
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Oct 31, 2014 10:20AM)
Ah...ha...okay then. Guess those posts are gone.

In answer to your question Jamie: I don't think I was taking pot shots at those that didn't agree with me. I merely pointed out the errors being posted by some that didn't even own the product. Also answered some questions...that's all.

As for the other thing...i guess you were right seeing as the posts are now deleted.

However, for the record, anyone that's old enough to read some of the stuff posted on this forum is more than old enough to have read that term and not be adversely affected by it.

Peace my scooptastical friend.
Message: Posted by: ftlum (Oct 31, 2014 10:21AM)
You folks have sharp eyes-- I didn't catch anything in the trailer initially, myself. If I am understanding the nature of the gimmick correctly, it would mean that not only are you restricted to having the box remain on its side, but you also couldn't put it back down on a table after the dump out-- you're stuck holding it in your hand until you pocket it. I could be wrong, but after the dump, you'd also have to be very careful about angles if you're performing for seated spectators; and before the dump, you'd have to make sure no one could see the back of the card in the box. Does that sound right?
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Oct 31, 2014 10:43AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, ftlum wrote:
You folks have sharp eyes-- I didn't catch anything in the trailer initially, myself. If I am understanding the nature of the gimmick correctly, it would mean that not only are you restricted to having the box remain on its side, but you also couldn't put it back down on a table after the dump out-- you're stuck holding it in your hand until you pocket it. I could be wrong, but after the dump, you'd also have to be very careful about angles if you're performing for seated spectators; and before the dump, you'd have to make sure no one could see the back of the card in the box. Does that sound right? [/quote]

Yes - Right! Right!! Right!!! :)

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: RSchlutz (Oct 31, 2014 11:00AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, IAIN wrote:
I wonder if jay sankey will release an omni-paperclip? [/quote]

Lol! :).

Thank you for that.

Ryan
Message: Posted by: Jared (Oct 31, 2014 12:08PM)
One feature that was mentioned at the very end of the trailer that I found interesting is that you can apparently place an object inside the box before going straight into the revelation.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Oct 31, 2014 12:58PM)
Well, yeah. Why not? You can do the same with any other box of this genre.

You know, I think that magic producers have been operating a tag-team system with over-hyped pre-order tat for quite some time now.

"Hey, I am about to start hyping a complete load of sh*te that I came up with when I was drunk, and I need to pay child support next month. Do you have anything sh*te that you're planning on releasing?"

"Hi, yeah, funny you should say that, but I also have a truly sh*te product coming out too. It was inspired by looking in the toilet after a chicken vindaloo. How about I release my trailer just when your product starts getting bad reviews? Sound good?"

"Cheers mate, that'd be awesome. Your stupid trailer will bury my bad reviews. Owe you one, yeah?"



:lol:
Message: Posted by: Cole Gross (Oct 31, 2014 01:21PM)
Hey guys,

I know this is already 3 pages deep of HIGH and DESERVING compliments and excitement, but I wanted to post about it as well. David Penn has really struck gold in this version. I was fortunate enough to get a skype view of this and he showed it to us at Hocus Pocus and this thing really is all that everyone has said and more. We could not be more excited for him and know this will be a holiday smash hit. We just listed it for presale at Hocus Pocus to be shipped on the worldwide release date of November 28, 2014. We are offering FREE WORLDWIDE SHIPPING for those who preorder here. If you have any questions please let me know and again congrats to David and his team on a job VERY well done.

http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/?p=28309

Cole
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Oct 31, 2014 01:31PM)
Not all pre-orders are created equal. I would have no problem pre-ordering something like this because I use my common sense to figure out if I would be able to use it or not. If I can use it, why not pre-order it?

Now... If it's a product where the trailer is jumpy and it's by someone you've never heard of and the method looks too good to be true, then don't preorder it. it probably will be junk. Or if I'm not sure what I would be getting, then I wouldn't pre-order. But in this case, because I have a fairly good idea of what I'm getting, I might be so inclined to pre-order it.

I don't get bashing on stores and producers who put out stuff for pre-order. Surely we are bright enough to sort out what's wise to pre-order and what isn't? Or am I expecting too much?

BTW, for the record, I only know Dave Penn in passing. He's always been nice to me but I didn't come on here to pump up his product. I just think this looks really good and practical. Practical is big with me.
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 31, 2014 01:58PM)
I think, all things considered, the increasing ubiquity of pre-orders has been an unhealthy development in the magical arts.
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Oct 31, 2014 02:08PM)
Yes this one has the hype machine going full tilt and its well regarded by Peter Turner, Rus Andrews and Chris Kavanagh.

But if I ignore all that then the one thing that stands out is that you have an empty clear case at the end of the effect which I cannot imagine is going to raise any interest from spectators. Clarity Box for example has that label before and after which could attract attention.

So it looks pretty good...except for the ridiculous price...no chance I'd pay that even with Chris Kavanaghs recommendation.
Message: Posted by: genius (Oct 31, 2014 02:13PM)
The use of a prop in this effect is obvious. Who carries clear glass boxes with them? This is not organic mentalism!

Mindblowingly,
Charles
Message: Posted by: doriancaudal (Oct 31, 2014 02:15PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, genius wrote:
The use of a prop in this effect is obvious. Who carries clear glass boxes with them? This is not organic mentalism!

Mindblowingly,
Charles [/quote]

This post sums everything up! Thank you.
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 31, 2014 02:22PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, genius wrote:
The use of a prop in this effect is obvious. Who carries clear glass boxes with them? This is not organic mentalism!

Mindblowingly,
Charles [/quote]

I certainly don't think it feels like a natural fit for mentalism, but Peter Turner has a habit of coming up with unexpected angles so I'm looking forward to finding out what he intends to use this for.

Let's see if Peter can once again think outside the (clear glass) box.
Message: Posted by: rasp (Oct 31, 2014 02:30PM)
'Organic'??....... I wish people would look up the meaning of that word before using it
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 31, 2014 02:38PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, rasp wrote:
'Organic'??....... I wish people would look up the meaning of that word before using it [/quote]

The Oxford Dictionary gives this definition (among others):

Organic (adjective): Denoting or characterized by a harmonious relationship between the elements of a whole: the organic unity of the integral work of art.

Example Sentences:
I took diverse or disparate elements and gave them some kind of organic unity.
The majority of the songs on the album blend each element into a full, organic, and integrated whole.
There is no sense of organic unity in the work as a whole - one is simply taken from event to event, often at speed.
Message: Posted by: Peter_turner (Oct 31, 2014 02:46PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Ray Chelt wrote:
Yes this one has the hype machine going full tilt and its well regarded by Peter Turner, Rus Andrews and Chris Kavanagh.

But if I ignore all that then the one thing that stands out is that you have an empty clear case at the end of the effect which I cannot imagine is going to raise any interest from spectators. Clarity Box for example has that label before and after which could attract attention.

So it looks pretty good...except for the ridiculous price...no chance I'd pay that even with Chris Kavanaghs recommendation. [/quote]

I'm not hyping anything, you look around the Café I am not one to take part in hype. Why do I need to? I make my money consulting, I've just got back from Holland, was in France the week before and I lectured and performed in Vegas the week before. I have known David penn less than two months, I have NEVER reviewed or looked at any of his material before, I have not been paid one penny for being on the Dvd and do you really think I would be on a dvd adding ideas to something that I thought would be a flop?

If I didn't like it I would have not offered ideas for it.

I have (what I consider) a beautiful presentation, I will film when I get chance, the mechanics I will not be sharing... Why should I?

I am not underestimating anyone and I don't see what the issue is with me saying I like it...

If your happy with what you use and it works for you why change that, if you don't think you can get use out of this don't buy it and if you think it's too expensive then purchase something worthwhile. I'm not here to sell units or sway anyone's decision, I gain nothing if you do or you do not :)

Like I stated at the start of this the load feature is what struck me about this box.

have a good evening x
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Oct 31, 2014 02:52PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Peter_turner wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Ray Chelt wrote:
Yes this one has the hype machine going full tilt and its well regarded by Peter Turner, Rus Andrews and Chris Kavanagh.

But if I ignore all that then the one thing that stands out is that you have an empty clear case at the end of the effect which I cannot imagine is going to raise any interest from spectators. Clarity Box for example has that label before and after which could attract attention.

So it looks pretty good...except for the ridiculous price...no chance I'd pay that even with Chris Kavanaghs recommendation. [/quote]

I'm not hyping anything, you look around the Café I am not one to take part in hype. Why do I need to? I make my money consulting, I've just got back from Holland, was in France the week before and I lectured and performed in Vegas the week before. I have known David penn less than two months, I have NEVER reviewed or looked at any of his material before, I have not been paid one penny for being on the Dvd and do you really think I would be on a dvd adding ideas to something that I thought would be a flop?

If I didn't like it I would have not offered ideas for it.

I have (what I consider) a beautiful presentation, I will film when I get chance, the mechanics I will not be sharing... Why should I?

I am not underestimating anyone and I don't see what the issue is with me saying I like it...

If your happy with what you use and it works for you why change that, if you don't think you can get use out of this don't buy it and if you think it's too expensive then purchase something worthwhile. I'm not here to sell units or sway anyone's decision, I gain nothing if you do or you do not :)

Like I stated at the start of this the load feature is what struck me about this box.

have a good evening x [/quote]

Unfortunately, whilst you may be an international globe trotting mentalist of genius levels, your reading skills are rubbish.

Read my opening paragraph again, I don't accuse you of hype.

Back to the Janet & John books for you Peter :)
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 31, 2014 02:53PM)
Peter,

Is it not enough that you are one of the leading figures in UK mentalism? Do you have to rub it in that you're trotting round the globe at the same time!!! :)
Message: Posted by: genius (Oct 31, 2014 03:00PM)
You will not be sharing the mechanics of your presentation? So, in other words, purchasers will see you do something amazing on the dvd, but the purchasers will not be afforded the opportunity to learn how to do what you do with this prop?

Mindblowingly,
Charles

[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Peter_turner wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Ray Chelt wrote:
Yes this one has the hype machine going full tilt and its well regarded by Peter Turner, Rus Andrews and Chris Kavanagh.

But if I ignore all that then the one thing that stands out is that you have an empty clear case at the end of the effect which I cannot imagine is going to raise any interest from spectators. Clarity Box for example has that label before and after which could attract attention.

So it looks pretty good...except for the ridiculous price...no chance I'd pay that even with Chris Kavanaghs recommendation. [/quote]

I'm not hyping anything, you look around the Café I am not one to take part in hype. Why do I need to? I make my money consulting, I've just got back from Holland, was in France the week before and I lectured and performed in Vegas the week before. I have known David penn less than two months, I have NEVER reviewed or looked at any of his material before, I have not been paid one penny for being on the Dvd and do you really think I would be on a dvd adding ideas to something that I thought would be a flop?

If I didn't like it I would have not offered ideas for it.

I have (what I consider) a beautiful presentation, I will film when I get chance, the mechanics I will not be sharing... Why should I?

I am not underestimating anyone and I don't see what the issue is with me saying I like it...

If your happy with what you use and it works for you why change that, if you don't think you can get use out of this don't buy it and if you think it's too expensive then purchase something worthwhile. I'm not here to sell units or sway anyone's decision, I gain nothing if you do or you do not :)

Like I stated at the start of this the load feature is what struck me about this box.

have a good evening x [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Oct 31, 2014 03:02PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, genius wrote:
You will not be sharing the mechanics of your presentation? So, in other words, purchasers will see you do something amazing on the dvd, but the purchasers will not be afforded the opportunity to learn how to do what you do with this prop?

Mindblowingly,
Charles

[/quote]

Why should they? Peter Turner isn't selling it. I'm much more interested in what he does with it, than how he does it.
Message: Posted by: dduane (Oct 31, 2014 03:08PM)
I think that all the "mystery box" type tricks have the same effect on the spectators, who do not look for "trouble" as much as us magicians do :) I see 2 advantages that Mystery Solved might have. One is to be able to load as well as to remove the card or prediction. The other is for the magician to have a clever gaff - of course spectators don't give a rat's a** about the method. I don't think I would get a bigger reaction from Mystery Solved than from Paperclipped or the other boxes.

Just my opinion.
Dennis
Message: Posted by: Peter_turner (Oct 31, 2014 03:08PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, genius wrote:
The use of a prop in this effect is obvious. Who carries clear glass boxes with them? This is not organic mentalism!

Mindblowingly,
Charles [/quote]

I think there is something to look at here.

If you jump onto the first use for a prop or the first premise you can think of then it is never going to be interesting from an audience's perspective in any sense.

I always think if you took a small table of regular folk and told them they had the ability to read minds for a brief period of time and you handed them a prop (like a spoon) and asked them what they would do with it and they come up with the same premise as a performer then it is expected and only half entertaining (dependant on the performer). These are the quickest explanations that regular (Lay folk, although I have never liked that term) folk would come up with. So naturally they don't interest me.

"What is the purpose of bending a spoon?" Quickest answer - "To prove I can", "you don't have to have a reason you just do it", "Because it's entertaining". All the quickest possible solutions and all lack a premise or an entertaining plot. Does everything need a plot? No, but I think it certainly helps in giving specific props relevance.

I can think of two situations that this box makes complete sense and does nothing but adds to the nature of the effect (as opposed to detracting). Like I said earlier this box is wasted on card to impossible location.

Instead of focusing on why you are carrying a box, focus on why you are using the box in the first place and why it matters to the participant.

In my latest video (just filmed) I used an old pair of shoes for something.. I will let you work out how I made these seem totally natural and when you watch the video hopefully you will agree they suddenly become relevant.

The box should NOT be the thing in question, what goes inside it should be of more relevance.

Anyway chaps, thank you for the thoughts.

Pete x
Message: Posted by: Peter_turner (Oct 31, 2014 03:14PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Ray Chelt wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Peter_turner wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Ray Chelt wrote:
Yes this one has the hype machine going full tilt and its well regarded by Peter Turner, Rus Andrews and Chris Kavanagh.

But if I ignore all that then the one thing that stands out is that you have an empty clear case at the end of the effect which I cannot imagine is going to raise any interest from spectators. Clarity Box for example has that label before and after which could attract attention.

So it looks pretty good...except for the ridiculous price...no chance I'd pay that even with Chris Kavanaghs recommendation. [/quote]

I'm not hyping anything, you look around the Café I am not one to take part in hype. Why do I need to? I make my money consulting, I've just got back from Holland, was in France the week before and I lectured and performed in Vegas the week before. I have known David penn less than two months, I have NEVER reviewed or looked at any of his material before, I have not been paid one penny for being on the Dvd and do you really think I would be on a dvd adding ideas to something that I thought would be a flop?

If I didn't like it I would have not offered ideas for it.

I have (what I consider) a beautiful presentation, I will film when I get chance, the mechanics I will not be sharing... Why should I?

I am not underestimating anyone and I don't see what the issue is with me saying I like it...

If your happy with what you use and it works for you why change that, if you don't think you can get use out of this don't buy it and if you think it's too expensive then purchase something worthwhile. I'm not here to sell units or sway anyone's decision, I gain nothing if you do or you do not :)

Like I stated at the start of this the load feature is what struck me about this box.

have a good evening x [/quote]

Unfortunately, whilst you may be an international globe trotting mentalist of genius levels, your reading skills are rubbish.

Read my opening paragraph again, I don't accuse you of hype.

Back to the Janet & John books for you Peter :) [/quote]

I am far from a genius ;)

Hence why I love children's books so much :D

In regards to sharing what I will be using the box for that is not on the dvd, why should it be? ..It's not my product and I have no affiliation with it other than the additional ideas I share on the dvd. Giving people something for free (as I make nothing from it at all) should be enough for anyone and before you claim it was not for free as they have to pay
for the dvd I don't make money from that so I gave it for free.

People are buying the prop here, isn't that what is on sale? The dvd should just be the cherry on the cake (or that's how I see it) but I am going to be 100% honest I have never bought a prop..Well I tell a lie, I bought a hotrod when I was 12 it was the bomb. So I am not sure maybe that warrants a thread of its own.

Pete x
Message: Posted by: Raj Suman (Oct 31, 2014 03:14PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Cole Gross wrote:
Hey guys,

I know this is already 3 pages deep of HIGH and DESERVING compliments and excitement, but I wanted to post about it as well. David Penn has really struck gold in this version. I was fortunate enough to get a skype view of this and he showed it to us at Hocus Pocus and this thing really is all that everyone has said and more. We could not be more excited for him and know this will be a holiday smash hit. We just listed it for presale at Hocus Pocus to be shipped on the worldwide release date of November 28, 2014. We are offering FREE WORLDWIDE SHIPPING for those who preorder here. If you have any questions please let me know and again congrats to David and his team on a job VERY well done.

http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/?p=28309

Cole [/quote]
I believed what you said about hidden hand and look how that turned out. You are the boy who cried wolf I think.
Message: Posted by: Peter_turner (Oct 31, 2014 03:17PM)
Just to quickly clarify as I think we have our wires crossed here...I did share methods on the dvd and additional uses for the box.

The filming thing I meant I would be recording a video outside of the dvd of me using the box real world. Sorry for the confusion everyone x
Message: Posted by: Peter_turner (Oct 31, 2014 03:19PM)
Oh and Raj, sorry I didn't mean to offend. I read on the fly and misread it brother.

Pete x
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Oct 31, 2014 03:29PM)
Its my belief that the longer we are in magic we lose the fun of the mysticism. It is great to share as that is how we learn. Spectators have no idea the kind of things going on in this thread. If you're a real worker you understand this,otherwise the debate goes on.
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Oct 31, 2014 04:41PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Peter_turner wrote:
Just to quickly clarify as I think we have our wires crossed here...I did share methods on the dvd and additional uses for the box.

The filming thing I meant I would be recording a video outside of the dvd of me using the box real world. Sorry for the confusion everyone x [/quote]

What I took your statements to mean is that you would share some methods and additional uses on the DVD, but that you would not be sharing how you plan on actually using this in the real world. Not just video showing you performing it in the real world, but that you wouldn't be sharing how you are planning on actually using it.

And, for the record, I think that is 100% acceptable and personally I'm thankful anytime someone of your caliber is willing to share anything.
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Oct 31, 2014 04:45PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Cameron Francis wrote:
...

Surely we are bright enough to sort out what's wise to pre-order and what isn't? Or am I expecting too much?

...
[/quote]

I know you don't post much on here anymore, as per your prior post, but are you on here AT ALL? :bigsmile:
Message: Posted by: baobow (Oct 31, 2014 05:24PM)
Pre-orders are only worthwhile when a product is released in limited quantities. I don't see that point of pre-ordering a mass produced product that will be available just about everywhere in afew weeks time other than receiving a bonus, which in this case is a DVD.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 31, 2014 05:38PM)
...has there been a downsizing of bridges recently? why the sudden influx of trolls on here?
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Oct 31, 2014 05:55PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, IAIN wrote:
...has there been a downsizing of bridges recently? why the sudden influx of trolls on here? [/quote]
I think people are getting to the end of their tether with the amount of c*** being released, dealer hype, testimonials from friends and the pre-order rip-off.

Change is in the air my friend.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Oct 31, 2014 06:43PM)
You are correct, Jamie.

If there is [i]one[/i] thing which really irritates me, it is the tendency to class people who offer negative feedback as "trolls".

Another classic example of intellectual vacuity is the use of the word "hater".

People who employ these terms are often bereft of both humour and the ability to think critically about [i]other people's ideas which may conflict with their own.[/i]
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 31, 2014 06:54PM)
...stating an opinion is great, even better if its eloquent and logical over aeolistic - however, trolling and bating is rife in this section (and in this thread)...

the irony is not lost on me, that others now getting huffy over me bringing up the trolling issue, and defending it saying "well, its just..like...my opinion, man..." - are also guilty of the thing they accuse others of...i am allowed to think that people are bating and trolling, that is my opinion...

maybe some people are trolling accidentally...

example - I could say that one of the meanings of "vacuity" is "absence of thought or intelligence" so you don't need to say intellectual vacuity...but that could also be seen as out and out pedantry instead...

hey-ho...
Message: Posted by: Cohiba (Oct 31, 2014 07:15PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, genius wrote:
The use of a prop in this effect is obvious. Who carries clear glass boxes with them? This is not organic mentalism!

Mindblowingly,
Charles [/quote]

Well the average guy on the street isn't going to have a clear glass box in his pocket, but a magician or mentalist aiming to be as fair as possible to his audience very likely would.

The concern should be whether or not the prop makes sense in the routine, and whether or not it looks suspicious. If its use makes complete sense, and it arouses no suspicion, then I believe you are still abiding by the "organic" ideal.

A portable finger-chopper, for example, makes sense (because you're a magician showing something impossible - you carry weird props to show your skills); however, it arouses suspicion as a funky magician prop, so it does not fit into the organic ideal.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Oct 31, 2014 07:19PM)
Well, dear chap, the number one definition of vacuity is [i]an absence of[/i]. I don't think we need to refer to a dictionary, do we? Or do we not understand how dictionaries work in terms of listed definitions? Ahem.

Now, what I'm doing there, Iain, is being fairly abrasive towards you. It's not trolling, it is cut and thrust. Similarly, "accidental trolling" is oxymoronic. Trolling is by definition deliberate.

I enjoy reading your contributions here, they are often pithy and amusing. But you don't like it when anyone disagrees with you. Not my problem, as Douglas Adams would have it; it's an SEP, as far as I'm concerned.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 31, 2014 07:31PM)
I did say "one of the meanings"...do please keep up old bean...

yes - you are being abrasive, maybe even provocative (not just you, but a couple of others, and myself in return)...and its not that I dislike people disagreeing with what I think/say - its the simple act of fairness/honesty in our communications with one another that I feel is important, and when it is degraded in some way (usually to provoke a reaction, other times its because someone is talking down to someone else, or being snobbish, priggish or a multitude of other -ishes), that's when I sometimes feel its fair to return that particular favour...a taste of their own medicine, a reflection of their behaviour...that kind of thing...

some of the comments in this thread have been said to deliberately provoke others in a negative way...if you don't want to define that as trolling, that's your choice...likewise, to some people its "cut and thrust", to others its "being a bit of a d**khead for no good reason"...
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Oct 31, 2014 07:37PM)
Well, that as you say is your opinion. No problem here.

Yes, you did say "one of" the definitions. So why say it at all, when in fact it is meaningless?

Is it you that is the troll, my lovely? Has the world gone mad?

:-)




:fruity: :innocent:
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 31, 2014 07:40PM)
Just for this thread, yes...it made me feel special...

i find latest and greatest to be the biggest digital zoo of all, and it is both enticing and depressing in equal measure...y'know when you see an animal rock back and forth out of either delight or madness, and you're not entirely sure which? its that...
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Oct 31, 2014 07:42PM)
Rocking back and forth? Ooh. Really? Okay. See ya.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 31, 2014 07:44PM)
Anyway - a transparent box...

plenty of metaphors to play with to bring some meaning to it...i've always felt that having the item on show from the start gives it an air of inevitability which you may or may not want for a routine...i suppose you could do a version of the andy nyman effect with it (but without showing the face before you start)...

a crystal clear box could symbolise clarity of thought, that there's one thing that you have been focusing on intently for a while...its there, on the table, you know what it is, and you think your participant knows what it is too, they just don't know how they know it...
Message: Posted by: pepka (Oct 31, 2014 07:54PM)
I don't think it will be an issue if this can be examined or not. The most beautiful card to box I've ever seen was Tommy Wonder's, and it is dirty as Hell. I mean that box couldn't be examined by Ray Charles! But, the design utilized produced an illusion of a folded card, actually falling out of the box. The small size kept it easily hidden in the hand and while not really palmed, it was kind of out of sight out of mind.

I use the Kohler Box which is not examinable but it serves another purpose, holding some coins for a previous routine. This is Jamy Swiss's excellent addition to the plot. David's new box looks a bit too small for that, but still looks great and if handled properly, it should not matter if it is examinable or not.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Oct 31, 2014 08:01PM)
Yes, a transparent box.

It's a different plot, but for magicians is it a better one?

Whit Haydn, in his excellent writing, suggests learning a good script and just doing that to begin with.

I would suggest, to young magicians, to watch Tommy Wonder's ACR; to buy his books; to buy his videos, and to learn the script.

As most of us know, the climax is the signed card ending up in a wooden box, which has been introduced prior to the ACR. Nobody knows what is inside that box, until it is opened. If properly constructed, and properly executed, the box will fool anyone who is not a magician. Nobody will ask to see the box.

I bought Clarity Box, and it's a lovely prop, but compared with the TW approach it is low on mystery and high on implied premise. Does this make for good theatre? I don't think so.

But for a mentalist? Well, I can see the potential, even not being a mentalist.
Message: Posted by: Funnybaldbloke (Oct 31, 2014 08:37PM)
When I was performing close up, the end to my ambitious card was a 'card to box'.

I just used the normal Bicycle card box, which had been on the table throughout my spot, with a subtlety from Steve Bedwell to enable you to hear something rattling inside, then pulled out the folded signed card. It always got a fantastic reaction. No one ever said 'ah but that box should have been clear', it's immediately examinable and it didn't cost anything as the box came free with every deck of cards.

Lay people don't give a s**t what type of box it is as long as they've been entertained. Throw some gags in, get em laughing and they won't care where the card came from.

I'm all for forwarding the art but this is getting silly now.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Oct 31, 2014 08:40PM)
I agree, you funny bald bloke, with most of what you say. But if the box is clear, then it's a totally different trick. C'mon now.
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Oct 31, 2014 11:51PM)
The biggest thing that concerns me, on reflection (ahem), is that Penn ditches that box very quickly after the switch. From a spectators point of view I hate rapid movements, it always signifies something shonky has happened even if they don't know what it is.

Never mind examinable, I just wonder whether the box itself doesn't even bear looking at for too long after the moment.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Nov 1, 2014 12:09AM)
One might like to check out the - "Secret sessions » » Howie Diddits"

Enjoy! :)

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: Cole Gross (Nov 1, 2014 12:28AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Raj Suman wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Cole Gross wrote:
Hey guys,

I know this is already 3 pages deep of HIGH and DESERVING compliments and excitement, but I wanted to post about it as well. David Penn has really struck gold in this version. I was fortunate enough to get a skype view of this and he showed it to us at Hocus Pocus and this thing really is all that everyone has said and more. We could not be more excited for him and know this will be a holiday smash hit. We just listed it for presale at Hocus Pocus to be shipped on the worldwide release date of November 28, 2014. We are offering FREE WORLDWIDE SHIPPING for those who preorder here. If you have any questions please let me know and again congrats to David and his team on a job VERY well done.

http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/?p=28309

Cole [/quote]
I believed what you said about hidden hand and look how that turned out. You are the boy who cried wolf I think. [/quote]

I am entitled to post my opinion on here just like everyone else. If you don't like my opinion or thoughts you are welcome to ignore them. Others appreciate my perspective and thank me for them. I think this is great and I meant everything I said about it. If I have left the impression that I am just here to sell something it am sorry. That is not my intent. I would always rather a customer be a log time customer and satisfied with products we sell rather than make a one time small sale and lose a customer for life. That is why I try to give my honest opinions and would never sell something just to sell it. If anyone has any specific questions about this item feel free to pm me and I am always happy to help.

Cole
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 1, 2014 02:31AM)
Cole is relatively new around here (compared with dad) and of course he has every right to his views - but of course he is in the business of selling stuff.

In the end it is always best to weigh multiple opinions and then decide.
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Nov 1, 2014 10:43AM)
With all due respect, if "people" are getting to the end of their "tether" then perhaps said "people" should look at themselves in the mirror, for they are looking at the person most responsible for their journey down that tether line in the first place.

NO ONE forces anyone to read the hype, to believe the hype, or to purchase any product, pre-order or otherwise. Last I checked, I have the free will to ignore any hype and simply wait for actual reviews to come rolling in before I decide to purchase any product. Any person not willing to regulate their wants and desires subjects themselves to the vagaries of the market and the goodwill of the others, to the extent that that good will exists at all.

The people are their own worst enemy...

[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, IAIN wrote:
...has there been a downsizing of bridges recently? why the sudden influx of trolls on here? [/quote]
I think people are getting to the end of their tether with the amount of c*** being released, dealer hype, testimonials from friends and the pre-order rip-off.

Change is in the air my friend. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: dp (Nov 1, 2014 12:08PM)
Hi Guys

First of all, thank you so much for all your interest in Mystery Solved.

People have commented about the amount of trolls on this particular thread. This is a great compliment to the interest in this product. After hosting a review show for many years now, it would be very naive to think the only opinion out there is my own. Some people have genuinely seen everything and some people are speculating. I will leave it up to you to decide.

Someone attacked myself for the use of the same music as QB3 by John Sheets signing off with “C'mon David - you can do better. A little originality maybe? Enough already.” I have let this person know via pm that this was royalty free music purchased well over a year ago when I first used it in Tom Wright’s Oblivion trailer (prior to QB3). I am not insinuating for one second that John has done anything wrong at all. It’s just royalty free music.

I would like to make a few points about Mystery Solved but please understand that these will not be direct comparisons to any other creator’s work. These are just points I would like to make about my own product.

All interest is great, but don’t be upset if I mention a couple of points that people have made genuine mistakes on. Genuine mistakes! If I had just seen the trailer I would make the same assumptions.

The box can be placed on the table in front of the people seated on either side in a banquet situation. Because of the angle of the card/billet in the box you don’t see anything you shouldn’t. I even go as far as letting the spectator’s hold the box themselves, and this just comes down to audience management.

We spend time on the DVD explaining how the box can be left in full view after the dump if this is something you want to achieve. You are certainly not stuck with it in your hand.

On advice from Jason at Murphys, I chose to show it stupidly close at three points in the trailer. It is the equivalent of doing it 5 inches from their nose and yet they will still never see a thing. Of course we know that a participant will never be this close and I believe the angles of Mystery Solved are superb.

Something that I don’t think gets across clearly in the trailer is the fact that it can easily be placed under a glass and be further isolated if you wish. It really is a great size!

You are only limited by your own imagination when it comes to creating applications for Mystery Solved. With my level of Mentalism knowledge it was great to be joined by Peter on the DVD. He provides so many insights into justification as well as great suggestions for scripting and routines.

For myself, as a booked magician and illusionist, the justification for having a clear box is not an issue in the slightest. If I had to start being concerned about strange looking boxes, my warehouse would have a lot more floor space. Peter justifies it so well on the DVD for mentalism, but as a magician, it’s just production value for me personally. I also received a phone call from Peter today to inform me that he is planning a performance video very soon that further justifies the use of Mystery Solved for mentalism.

People who have seen the quality and handled the prop have already mentioned that this has been built from the ground up. This is why the principles work so well, so close up. All this is explained on the one and a half hour DVD that comes with the product.

Thank you ALL for your interest in Mystery Solved and I’ll check back again later. x

Cheers

David
Message: Posted by: magicinsight (Nov 1, 2014 12:36PM)
David,
Thank you chiming in with your additional comments and clarifications. It looks great.
Michael
New York
Message: Posted by: LeeEarle (Nov 1, 2014 02:49PM)
Here is one recovering magician's solution to the problems presented:

1. Why use the box? "To keep the object safe" is a null program since the object would be equally safe just sitting on the table, bar, or someone's hand. Obviously, the box is necessary to do the switch but unless there is an easily understood reason to have the darned thing at hand, it will always seem affected and, thus, suspicious.

2. Since the box is indeed gimmicked, leaving it in view after the 'dump' is problematic. This suggestions covers that with a very innocuous 'cleanup'.

Were I forced to use it, I'd design and print a liner closely to fit all 6 sides of the cube on the inside - something glossy and colorful that would mimic retail packaging, complete with a UPC code. It would also be designed to conceal the eventual bill, card, or billet that must be installed in preparation. The liner would be pulled out of the box to facilitate removing the contents, in this case a tuft of the 'shredded currency' that's available from multiple sources. The patter line could be along the lines of, "The ad copy says there's over $100.00 in shredded bills making up this little haystack. It's a shame we couldn't reassemble them into spendable currency. Still, since the box has an affinity for money, let's try it with a single bill - one of yours, signed, please." Shortly after the 'bill' appears in the box and is dumped out, the little haystack of shredded currency could be stuffed inside which would allow the box to remain present, if not fully examinable, laying on one side with the open top toward the audience.
Message: Posted by: paperinick (Nov 1, 2014 10:52PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Funnybaldbloke wrote:
a subtlety from Steve Bedwell to enable you to hear something rattling inside
[/quote]
Intriguing. Where was this published?
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 1, 2014 11:26PM)
[quote]On Nov 1, 2014, LeeEarle wrote:
Here is one recovering magician's solution to the problems presented:

1. Why use the box? "To keep the object safe" is a null program since the object would be equally safe just sitting on the table, bar, or someone's hand. Obviously, the box is necessary to do the switch but unless there is an easily understood reason to have the darned thing at hand, it will always seem affected and, thus, suspicious.

2. Since the box is indeed gimmicked, leaving it in view after the 'dump' is problematic. This suggestions covers that with a very innocuous 'cleanup'.

Were I forced to use it, I'd design and print a liner closely to fit all 6 sides of the cube on the inside - something glossy and colorful that would mimic retail packaging, complete with a UPC code. It would also be designed to conceal the eventual bill, card, or billet that must be installed in preparation. The liner would be pulled out of the box to facilitate removing the contents, in this case a tuft of the 'shredded currency' that's available from multiple sources. The patter line could be along the lines of, "The ad copy says there's over $100.00 in shredded bills making up this little haystack. It's a shame we couldn't reassemble them into spendable currency. Still, since the box has an affinity for money, let's try it with a single bill - one of yours, signed, please." Shortly after the 'bill' appears in the box and is dumped out, the little haystack of shredded currency could be stuffed inside which would allow the box to remain present, if not fully examinable, laying on one side with the open top toward the audience. [/quote]

So cool to have you here Lee... thanks for sharing
Message: Posted by: Funnybaldbloke (Nov 2, 2014 04:15AM)
Paperinick I've PM'd you.
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Nov 2, 2014 05:55AM)
Are people actually saying the box is suspicious? WOW really...

after you do card to impossible location, card tranposition or whatever, you've already established you are awesome at 'sleight of hand'. You hands are obviously ' too quick' for their eyes to catch.

If you do mystery card box by putting the mystery card on the card on the table, they will assume you've switched it with your god like quick hand skills. But if you put a box in their hand for safekeeping, so you can't get to it, and its clear so you can obviously see whats inside, what could possibly be more fair?

F
Message: Posted by: Aus (Nov 2, 2014 06:31AM)
I only ever browse this section of the Café and rarely if ever comment on things but after reading all 5 pages of this thread I was left a little amused by the antics.

We magicians are our own worst enemy we over complicate things unnecessarily, I still do the double lift from Royal Road but if I wanted to I could get the DVD Double Take by Greg Wilson from a magic shop and learn over a dozen different ways to do it. How did holding two cards as one get so complicated?

Methods seem to me to be the modern day currency for magicians these days, when the real factor should be how the method affects the effect of a trick and how it is perceived, nothing more, nothing less. Unfortunately even this seems to be a point of analysis paralysis since the semantics of a clear box being questioned as a secure way of holding an object seems to be a sticking point. With security lock boxes in banks, treasure chests (a form of box) and clear display boxes in jewellery stores and the like, are we really going to waste sleep on this issue?

One thing I see increasingly with judgement of a trick is the linear perspective we all seem to judge a new effect by. There seems to be no conceptual thinking on what I the magician can bring to this effect, if said magician sees a flaw or something wrong the usual result is the baby gets thrown out with the bath water. So many issues with tricks we relegate to the draw of no return could so easily be solved with a little thinking.

As far as suspiciousness goes, three things need to be considered, the trick, the prop and our actions, granted sometimes one of these things can affect the other but as I said before a little thinking might just remedy that. Tricks that draw suspicion by their own nature are tricks like a T&R card effect where an original state is changed then brought back again by whatever means; this is why I never liked versions of the trick that couldn't be examined after. If a coin vanishes from your hand then most probably they will want to see your hand empty, it’s simply the nature of the trick. In terms of this trick however I think you shouldn't have any suspicion since the box is clear offering a sense of openness well maintaining security, a point which I feel won’t be lost on your audience. As far as the rest, we will just have to wait and see.

Just as a side note if you have the November 2014 issue of Genii is to check out “Clear Glass Concept” in Magicana for the same idea using a drinking glass, sometimes the simple things are usually the best.

Magically

Aus
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Nov 2, 2014 07:15AM)
It seems that magicians will jump on the newest toy purely from the methodological point of view. You have to ask yourself why you would want to perform with any prop. One thing mentioned in another thread is that a card in a clear box is a completely different effect to the card in an opaque box. You need to decide what you want from your box of choice. Do you want the appearance of the card inside the box to be a surprise... or do you want people to see the card and wonder how it was able to be in the box all the time? Is your audience management good enough to leave a clear box on a table, or in someone's hand, and be confident they will not want to have a peek at the card or open up the box? These are the important elements to performance that sometimes get lost in the excitement of a new release.

Magicians will talk amongst themselves (at some length!) about examinable props. Most don't need to be but what will you do when that one eagle eyed, suspicious or intelligent person wants to examine the box? "It will never happen!" some say. That's what they said about the Titanic sinking. While it is not the most important aspect to consider, it is *something* to consider.

When it comes to clear boxes, you may want to check out Alexander de Cova's Lager Switch. It is brilliant! The box is examinable and if you want to give it away, you can. You won't, but you could. In the following video clip, he uses a double backed card which may confuse you but it is all legitimate. Here it is: http://youtu.be/DlJ7ofptpvg
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Nov 2, 2014 08:19AM)
I think the fact that this box is being marketed at both magicians and mentalists is causing some of the confusion on this thread.

The examinability of the box seems to be more of an issue for the magicians. Most mentalists seem more concerned with justifying its existence in the first place. I remain to be convinced that a little, clear perspex box of uncertain origin is the most natural home for a prediction in a pure mentalism routine. But I'd love to be proved wrong.
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Nov 2, 2014 08:28AM)
As stated on one of the many other threads, check Alex Linian's take using a regular drinking glass in the November Genii. As it stands Paperclipped is as clean and organic as it gets.
Message: Posted by: Craig Petty (Nov 2, 2014 09:02AM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Jon Allen wrote:
It seems that magicians will jump on the newest toy purely from the methodological point of view. You have to ask yourself why you would want to perform with any prop. One thing mentioned in another thread is that a card in a clear box is a completely different effect to the card in an opaque box. You need to decide what you want from your box of choice. Do you want the appearance of the card inside the box to be a surprise... or do you want people to see the card and wonder how it was able to be in the box all the time? Is your audience management good enough to leave a clear box on a table, or in someone's hand, and be confident they will not want to have a peek at the card or open up the box? These are the important elements to performance that sometimes get lost in the excitement of a new release.

Magicians will talk amongst themselves (at some length!) about examinable props. Most don't need to be but what will you do when that one eagle eyed, suspicious or intelligent person wants to examine the box? "It will never happen!" some say. That's what they said about the Titanic sinking. While it is not the most important aspect to consider, it is *something* to consider.

When it comes to clear boxes, you may want to check out Alexander de Cova's Lager Switch. It is brilliant! The box is examinable and if you want to give it away, you can. You won't, but you could. In the following video clip, he uses a double backed card which may confuse you but it is all legitimate. Here it is: http://youtu.be/DlJ7ofptpvg [/quote]

Interesting point Jon. Surely the Sam logic could be applied to your routine Double Back. That's a routine that's based on an existing routine (Doc Dalleys Last Trick) which you improved and marketed. By improving it you made it unexaminable. I'm assuming though you feel the the fact it can't be examined was worth it for the improvements you made.

As you say not being able to examine something is a consideration so how do you justify using your effect instead of the original which is the same effect but is examinable. And whatever justification you come up with why can't that be applied to David's effect?
Message: Posted by: Christopher Taylor (Nov 2, 2014 09:45AM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Jon Allen wrote:
It seems that magicians will jump on the newest toy purely from the methodological point of view. You have to ask yourself why you would want to perform with any prop. One thing mentioned in another thread is that a card in a clear box is a completely different effect to the card in an opaque box. You need to decide what you want from your box of choice. Do you want the appearance of the card inside the box to be a surprise... or do you want people to see the card and wonder how it was able to be in the box all the time? Is your audience management good enough to leave a clear box on a table, or in someone's hand, and be confident they will not want to have a peek at the card or open up the box? These are the important elements to performance that sometimes get lost in the excitement of a new release.

Magicians will talk amongst themselves (at some length!) about examinable props. Most don't need to be but what will you do when that one eagle eyed, suspicious or intelligent person wants to examine the box? "It will never happen!" some say. That's what they said about the Titanic sinking. While it is not the most important aspect to consider, it is *something* to consider.

When it comes to clear boxes, you may want to check out Alexander de Cova's Lager Switch. It is brilliant! The box is examinable and if you want to give it away, you can. You won't, but you could. In the following video clip, he uses a double backed card which may confuse you but it is all legitimate. Here it is: http://youtu.be/DlJ7ofptpvg [/quote]

Jon, I cannot agree more; both on your point about the newest toy and Mr. de Cova. In fact, I have been using another innovention of Alexander de Cova's for many years to facilitate a switch. The device is totally above suspicion and can be fully examined by a spectator. After all this time using it, the switch is never noticed and the device is put a way leaving me completely clean. Sometimes, I even have the spectator remove and open the billet. The device that facilitates Mr. de Cova's brilliant switch is called a paperclip.

CT
Message: Posted by: Christopher Taylor (Nov 2, 2014 12:54PM)
Upon reflection, I feel that I may have come across as being overly dismissive regarding the value of this switching device. Performing as magician, the box could certainly prove worthwhile and could add an extra note of mystery to a magic effect. Speaking personally, in terms of my persona as a mentalist's however, I want any prop I use to be invisible or completely innocuous. Hence my preference for the simple paperclip.

All the best,

Christopher
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Nov 2, 2014 03:24PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Jon Allen wrote:
It seems that magicians will jump on the newest toy purely from the methodological point of view. You have to ask yourself why you would want to perform with any prop. One thing mentioned in another thread is that a card in a clear box is a completely different effect to the card in an opaque box. You need to decide what you want from your box of choice. Do you want the appearance of the card inside the box to be a surprise... or do you want people to see the card and wonder how it was able to be in the box all the time? Is your audience management good enough to leave a clear box on a table, or in someone's hand, and be confident they will not want to have a peek at the card or open up the box? These are the important elements to performance that sometimes get lost in the excitement of a new release.

Magicians will talk amongst themselves (at some length!) about examinable props. Most don't need to be but what will you do when that one eagle eyed, suspicious or intelligent person wants to examine the box? "It will never happen!" some say. That's what they said about the Titanic sinking. While it is not the most important aspect to consider, it is *something* to consider.

When it comes to clear boxes, you may want to check out Alexander de Cova's Lager Switch. It is brilliant! The box is examinable and if you want to give it away, you can. You won't, but you could. In the following video clip, he uses a double backed card which may confuse you but it is all legitimate. Here it is: http://youtu.be/DlJ7ofptpvg [/quote]

Interesting point Jon. Surely the Sam logic could be applied to your routine Double Back. That's a routine that's based on an existing routine (Doc Dalleys Last Trick) which you improved and marketed. By improving it you made it unexaminable. I'm assuming though you feel the the fact it can't be examined was worth it for the improvements you made.

As you say not being able to examine something is a consideration so how do you justify using your effect instead of the original which is the same effect but is examinable. And whatever justification you come up with why can't that be applied to David's effect? [/quote]

Big flaw in your logic is that Penn's box isn't an improvement on Jon's. It's a step backwards.

In Jon's not only is the mystery of the box much better, you can load anything, card, ring, note, coin etc.
Message: Posted by: Craig Petty (Nov 2, 2014 04:11PM)
Firstly I'm not taking about the quality or perceived quality or usefulness of a prop. I am referring specifically to Jon's comment that the examinability of any prop should be an issue and not dismissed. If he feels this way then he must have the same thoughts about his own trick Double Back which faces the same issues.

Secondly I am not comparing Mystery Solved to Destination Box I am comparing Mystery Solved to Double Back. Your opinion is that Mystery Solved is not an improvement on Destination Box which is fine that's your opinion but that has nothing to do with what I posted. If you wish to reply to my post then answer the question - do you feel that Mystery Solved not being examinable an issue? If so do you feel this is also an issue with Double Back?

For the record I used to use Destination Box and stopped as it was too bulky for me. I have tried many boxes and have been unhappy with all of them. I currently use Card 2 Phone for a Mercury Folded Card revelation. Will I use Mystery Solved? Maybe, maybe not. However unlike you I will not judge it without having even played with it or watch the DVD.

Craig
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Nov 2, 2014 04:25PM)
Well although I can't judge the prop without seeing it, I can judge the premise. And in my opinion a box where you can see the climax as soon as you display it is a backwards step.
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Nov 2, 2014 04:26PM)
I must also say that this does look very well made, and the illusion is great.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Nov 2, 2014 04:27PM)
Nice to see you here Craig. :)

[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:

[b]. . . I have tried many boxes and have been unhappy with all of them.[/b]
[/quote]

. . . then, probably you might like the Lager Switch by Alexander de Cova. :)

On the Lager Switch, you might like to check out -----> Latest and Greatest? » » Clarity Box vs. 3Sixty vs. Mystery Solved

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: Craig Petty (Nov 2, 2014 04:36PM)
If you are judging the premise then you really shouldn't compare Destination Box and Mystery Solved as they are two totally different effects. Destination box is a card (or object) to impossible location. Mystery Solved is more like Bro John Hammons Mystery Card. A card that has been on display the whole routine becomes the card selected. You would be better off comparing Mystery Card with Mystery Solved.

I personally love the mystery card premise, a card that is clearly seen throughout the routine turns out to be the signed selection. It's very strong and I have played with many versions. I equally like Card to Impossible location but saying the mystery card premise is a step backwards from it is frankly shortsighted. Have you ever tried this premise with audiences? You would be surprised how strong it is. It's one of the reasons I feel David's prop has potential - I love the mystery card plot and this seems to be a very clean and commercial way of doing the same thing.

Craig
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Nov 2, 2014 04:47PM)
Good point Craig, instead of spending £45 on this,maybe study Bro. John Hamman and others work on mystery card. The Hamman routine is available on DVDs and books and you don't need to do a MCF or have a suspicious looking box.
Message: Posted by: Craig Petty (Nov 2, 2014 04:57PM)
How is the box any more or less suspicious than a big wooden box with little metal tins in it. You keep bringing up issues with David's release that can equaly be applied to Destination Box. I'm sure you don't have an agenda but it's sure coming across like that.

Also you could spend time on looking at Bro John Hamman instead of spending £45 on Mystery Solved. In my opinion Mystery Solved improves the Mystery Card plot by allowing you to isolate the card and hand it to the spectator and eliminate the use of the table meaning it can be done Walkaround. Of course your logic could once again be applied to the Destination Box, why spend £100+ on a Destination Box when you could learn a card under spectators watch routine which would be equally as strong and requires no props other than a pack of cards?
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Nov 2, 2014 04:57PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:

Interesting point Jon. Surely the Sam logic could be applied to your routine Double Back. That's a routine that's based on an existing routine (Doc Dalleys Last Trick) which you improved and marketed. By improving it you made it unexaminable. I'm assuming though you feel the the fact it can't be examined was worth it for the improvements you made.

As you say not being able to examine something is a consideration so how do you justify using your effect instead of the original which is the same effect but is examinable. And whatever justification you come up with why can't that be applied to David's effect? [/quote]

Hi Craig,

You bring up a very interesting point, probably inadvertently.

You said I improved DDLT. Thank you; I do too. I do feel the increased impact created by the use of the gimmick outweighs the use of it. In fact, Richard Kaufman said in Genii that it was one of the best uses for a card gimmick he had ever seen. I think only on three occasions has anyone asked to examine the cards. Part of why such a minuscule percentage is in the routining.

I changed the original routine and created a more magical moment. I use my effect over the original because of the presentation it allows me to perform the original doesn't allow me and the increased impact the gimmick offers.

One cannot apply the same justification here. You wrote "David's effect" but you are wrong. It is not his effect; it is Bruno Hennig's. David is introducing an unexaminable prop to achieve exactly the same effect as it already exists. As such, he is not bringing anything new to The Card to Box *effect* so you cannot group this and Double Back together. I can achieve the same effect as Mystery Solved with an ungimmicked perspex box; I cannot achieve the same effect as Double Back without the gimmick. I am sure there will be a semantics issue...

What can be said for it is that the size is such that it can be carried around easily in a pocket.

When different props that do the same effect are on the market, magicians have to ask themselves what each prop offers. The same goes for wallets. As such, the question is, "What does this bring to the table (pun intended) that doesn't already exist?"

Btw, I agree that my Destination Box and this one cannot be compared. Two different effects and premises.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Nov 2, 2014 05:08PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:
"... why spend £100+ on a Destination Box when you could learn a card under spectators watch routine which would be equally as strong and requires no props other than a pack of cards? [/quote]

I'd be more than happy to answer that one!

:-)
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Nov 2, 2014 05:13PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:
How is the box any more or less suspicious than a big wooden box with little metal tins in it. You keep bringing up issues with David's release that can equaly be applied to Destination Box. I'm sure you don't have an agenda but it's sure coming across like that.

Also you could spend time on looking at Bro John Hamman instead of spending £45 on Mystery Solved. In my opinion Mystery Solved improves the Mystery Card plot by allowing you to isolate the card and hand it to the spectator and eliminate the use of the table meaning it can be done Walkaround. Of course your logic could once again be applied to the Destination Box, why spend £100+ on a Destination Box when you could learn a card under spectators watch routine which would be equally as strong and requires no props other than a pack of cards? [/quote]

Well I can't be bothered to argue with you. Funny you accuse me of having an agenda, yet you are defending a product of a company you have a long standing relationship with....

Oh and really, you would hand this out...really....yeah right.
Message: Posted by: Craig Petty (Nov 2, 2014 05:14PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Jon Allen wrote:
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:

Interesting point Jon. Surely the Sam logic could be applied to your routine Double Back. That's a routine that's based on an existing routine (Doc Dalleys Last Trick) which you improved and marketed. By improving it you made it unexaminable. I'm assuming though you feel the the fact it can't be examined was worth it for the improvements you made.

As you say not being able to examine something is a consideration so how do you justify using your effect instead of the original which is the same effect but is examinable. And whatever justification you come up with why can't that be applied to David's effect? [/quote]

Hi Craig,

You bring up a very interesting point, probably inadvertently.

You said I improved DDLT. Thank you; I do too. I do feel the increased impact created by the use of the gimmick outweighs the use of it. In fact, Richard Kaufman said in Genii that it was one of the best uses for a card gimmick he had ever seen. I think only on three occasions has anyone asked to examine the cards. Part of why such a minuscule percentage is in the routining.

I changed the original routine and created a more magical moment. I use my effect over the original because of the presentation it allows me to perform the original doesn't allow me and the increased impact the gimmick offers.

One cannot apply the same justification here. You wrote "David's effect" but you are wrong. It is not his effect; it is Bruno Hennig's. David is introducing an unexaminable prop to achieve exactly the same effect as it already exists. As such, he is not bringing anything new to The Card to Box *effect* so you cannot group this and Double Back together. I can achieve the same effect as Mystery Solved with an ungimmicked perspex box; I cannot achieve the same effect as Double Back without the gimmick. I am sure there will be a semantics issue...

What can be said for it is that the size is such that it can be carried around easily in a pocket.

When different props that do the same effect are on the market, magicians have to ask themselves what each prop offers. The same goes for wallets. As such, the question is, "What does this bring to the table (pun intended) that doesn't already exist?"

Btw, I agree that my Destination Box and this one cannot be compared. Two different effects and premises. [/quote]

Jon you and I are never going to see eye to eye and most definitely will never 'get on'. You were very rude to me and Blackpool this when all I wanted to do was spend money with you this is not something I will ever forget.

However I also have never had a bad thing to say about you or your products. You are a good performer and many of your effects are very commercial. I personally use a few different effects of your including Silent Treatment (after you eventually sold it to me).

I tell you this because I want you to know I do not appreciate your saying I bring up 'an interesting point, probably inadvertently'. I am not an idiot Jon, neither are you so I would at expect you to not treat me like one.

Now regarding your post, I agree Double Back is an improvement however to an average laymen there is no real difference between your effect and the original. You could perform Double Back then later on they good see a good performance of The Last Trick of Dr Daley and they would not be able to explain the difference. In fact if they were asked to describe the effects they would probably describe them identically.

With Mystery Solved the improvement is the box is clear. To the average audience this is now a different effect depending on the presentation. Using the same example as above a performer could perform the Bruno effect then Mystery Solved and get two different descriptions.

Also you say that David is introducing an unexaminable prop to achieve exactly the same effect as the original. Isn't that what you did with Destination Box? Have 'the move' when you tip the contents of the box out that box cannot immediately be examined. If they were to look in it they would see the secret. The only option is to put the box away and focus on the contents. So how is this different to what David has done?
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Nov 2, 2014 05:15PM)
So would I Jon, I've used your box at every show for about 5 years, it's fantastic.
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Nov 2, 2014 05:17PM)
Aha, the truth is out, he hurt your feelings, and you are sticking up for a mate.
Message: Posted by: Craig Petty (Nov 2, 2014 05:20PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, tricktac wrote:
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:
How is the box any more or less suspicious than a big wooden box with little metal tins in it. You keep bringing up issues with David's release that can equaly be applied to Destination Box. I'm sure you don't have an agenda but it's sure coming across like that.

Also you could spend time on looking at Bro John Hamman instead of spending £45 on Mystery Solved. In my opinion Mystery Solved improves the Mystery Card plot by allowing you to isolate the card and hand it to the spectator and eliminate the use of the table meaning it can be done Walkaround. Of course your logic could once again be applied to the Destination Box, why spend £100+ on a Destination Box when you could learn a card under spectators watch routine which would be equally as strong and requires no props other than a pack of cards? [/quote]

Well I can't be bothered to argue with you. Funny you accuse me of having an agenda, yet you are defending a product of a company you have a long standing relationship with....

Oh and really, you would hand this out...really....yeah right. [/quote]

I had to hold my tongue on forums when I was part of the WPR as whatever I said reflected badly on WMS. Now that is no longer the case so I can be myself. This is me being myself and told being told what I cannot or can say.

Let me be clear I don't give a *** if David sells any of these boxes. I haven't discussed this thread with him. I am happy however to call out someone that either doesn't have a clue what they are talking about or has an agenda. That person is you. It's I pity you don't want to discuss this anymore you are probably selling more boxes for WMS than any trailer. David must love you.

Craig

Craig
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Nov 2, 2014 05:22PM)
Well done you, finally showing your true colours.
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Nov 2, 2014 05:24PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, tricktac wrote:
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:
How is the box any more or less suspicious than a big wooden box with little metal tins in it. You keep bringing up issues with David's release that can equaly be applied to Destination Box. I'm sure you don't have an agenda but it's sure coming across like that.

Also you could spend time on looking at Bro John Hamman instead of spending £45 on Mystery Solved. In my opinion Mystery Solved improves the Mystery Card plot by allowing you to isolate the card and hand it to the spectator and eliminate the use of the table meaning it can be done Walkaround. Of course your logic could once again be applied to the Destination Box, why spend £100+ on a Destination Box when you could learn a card under spectators watch routine which would be equally as strong and requires no props other than a pack of cards? [/quote]


Well I can't be bothered to argue with you. Funny you accuse me of having an agenda, yet you are defending a product of a company you have a long standing relationship with....

Oh and really, you would hand this out...really....yeah right. [/quote]

You can't be bothered arguing because you don't have any more points to argue. Unfortunately all the points you brought up in your argument were invalid and irrelevant to the actual issue at hand. Also you think that an effect performed with the destination box is a stronger effect than an effect performed with the clarity box, but your audiences will beg to differ.
Message: Posted by: Craig Petty (Nov 2, 2014 05:25PM)
I love Jon's products. He's a clever performer and a brilliant creator. His Fool Us performance was great and I have always enjoyed watching him.

It doesn't mean he's always right though.

I find it amusing that you feel I'm showing my true colours because I'm disagreeing with you.

Funny
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 2, 2014 05:25PM)
I'm happy to see Craig back on form. I've missed him.

Welcome back Craig :welcome:
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Nov 2, 2014 05:27PM)
Well, erm actually, I've used both the clarity box, and the destination box, so I know which worked best for MY audience, thanks very much.
Message: Posted by: Craig Petty (Nov 2, 2014 05:33PM)
I thought you weren't going to argue.

That didn't last long!

The fact that you used the Coarity Box means you purchased it. So at some point you must have thought that having a clear box was better than Destination Box as you stated that you used Destination Box for 5 years and Clarity Box is a recent product. By spending money on something you must have at least liked the idea. I imagine that having performed with the clarity box you decided Destination Box is better - why was that?

Oh and Jamie, thanks for the welcome.

Craig.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Nov 2, 2014 05:53PM)
Craig, we do and will see eye to eye on some things. There's just more that we don't.
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Nov 2, 2014 06:22PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Jon Allen wrote:
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:

Interesting point Jon. Surely the Sam logic could be applied to your routine Double Back. That's a routine that's based on an existing routine (Doc Dalleys Last Trick) which you improved and marketed. By improving it you made it unexaminable. I'm assuming though you feel the the fact it can't be examined was worth it for the improvements you made.

As you say not being able to examine something is a consideration so how do you justify using your effect instead of the original which is the same effect but is examinable. And whatever justification you come up with why can't that be applied to David's effect? [/quote]

Hi Craig,

You bring up a very interesting point, probably inadvertently.

You said I improved DDLT. Thank you; I do too. I do feel the increased impact created by the use of the gimmick outweighs the use of it. In fact, Richard Kaufman said in Genii that it was one of the best uses for a card gimmick he had ever seen. I think only on three occasions has anyone asked to examine the cards. Part of why such a minuscule percentage is in the routining.

I changed the original routine and created a more magical moment. I use my effect over the original because of the presentation it allows me to perform the original doesn't allow me and the increased impact the gimmick offers.

One cannot apply the same justification here. You wrote "David's effect" but you are wrong. It is not his effect; it is Bruno Hennig's. David is introducing an unexaminable prop to achieve exactly the same effect as it already exists. As such, he is not bringing anything new to The Card to Box *effect* so you cannot group this and Double Back together. I can achieve the same effect as Mystery Solved with an ungimmicked perspex box; I cannot achieve the same effect as Double Back without the gimmick. I am sure there will be a semantics issue...

What can be said for it is that the size is such that it can be carried around easily in a pocket.

When different props that do the same effect are on the market, magicians have to ask themselves what each prop offers. The same goes for wallets. As such, the question is, "What does this bring to the table (pun intended) that doesn't already exist?"

Btw, I agree that my Destination Box and this one cannot be compared. Two different effects and premises. [/quote]


The examinability issue with double back is a much bigger issue than with mystery solved. Yes your box and mystery solved can't be compared in premise, but they can be compared in practicality and impact on audience (to which yours is sub-par).
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Nov 2, 2014 06:27PM)
Hi Fatgumbo,

Sub-par in practicality and impact? Can you expand a bit on why you feel this to be the case and was is level par? What have your audiences' reactions been to both?

Regards,
Jon
Message: Posted by: simon hughes (Nov 2, 2014 06:46PM)
Destination box is the strongest close up trick I do by far. Nothing comes close and it's an incredible prop.

If you hold up a mirror to compare both props you'll see many differences.

Reflect on that.
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Nov 2, 2014 06:48PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Jon Allen wrote:
Hi Fatgumbo,

Sub-par in practicality and impact? Can you expand a bit on why you feel this to be the case and was is level par? What have your audiences' reactions been to both?

Regards,
Jon [/quote]

Hi certainly. You have previously mentioned (not on this thread) using the destination box for walk around by giving it to the spectator to hold at the start of the routine. What do you think is more practical, producing a glass box from your pocket and giving it to your spectator to hold, then place back in your pocket at the end, or carrying that wooden suitcase with you, and carrying it with both hands to the next table?

In terms of impact, a card which has been seen in full view the whole time and in the spectators hands which undoubtedly could not have been switched makes for a stronger impact. I observed this when switching from kennedy's mystery box to mark southworth's the box.
Message: Posted by: simon hughes (Nov 2, 2014 06:52PM)
Your talking nonsense.
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Nov 2, 2014 06:56PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, simon hughes wrote:
Your talking nonsense. [/quote]

If you want to raise a point for an argument, you have to at least point out where you think I'm wrong. At this moment, you have zero credibility. Nice try though.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Nov 2, 2014 07:09PM)
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Fatgumbo wrote:

Hi certainly. You have previously mentioned (not on this thread) using the destination box for walk around by giving it to the spectator to hold at the start of the routine. What do you think is more practical, producing a glass box from your pocket and giving it to your spectator to hold, then place back in your pocket at the end, or carrying that wooden suitcase with you, and carrying it with both hands to the next table?

In terms of impact, a card which has been seen in full view the whole time and in the spectators hands which undoubtedly could not have been switched makes for a stronger impact. I observed this when switching from kennedy's mystery box to mark southworth's the box. [/quote]

Thanks.

I do indeed use my Destination Box for walkaround. From the two options you gave, the more practical is the glass box. However, seeing as my Destination Box is not the size of a suitcase and does not require two hands to carry it round, it go with the one that doesn't come from my pocket, taking up more pocket space. You call my box a suitcase for which you need to use both hands which is funny. Just how small are you? :-)

As for impact, this is purely subjective. Whenever people say X is stronger than Y, if they have genuinely worked both X and Y for laymen and discovered that X is stronger then nobody can argue against their experience. You wrote that my Destination Box is sub-par compared to David's one but you have not used either?
Message: Posted by: jconstantine (Nov 2, 2014 07:34PM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, Cohiba wrote:
[quote]On Oct 31, 2014, genius wrote:
The use of a prop in this effect is obvious. Who carries clear glass boxes with them? This is not organic mentalism!

Mindblowingly,
Charles [/quote]

Well the average guy on the street isn't going to have a clear glass box in his pocket, but a magician or mentalist aiming to be as fair as possible to his audience very likely would.

What's more fair then a folded card with a paperclip on it?

The concern should be whether or not the prop makes sense in the routine, and whether or not it looks suspicious. If its use makes complete sense, and it arouses no suspicion, then I believe you are still abiding by the "organic" ideal.

A portable finger-chopper, for example, makes sense (because you're a magician showing something impossible - you carry weird props to show your skills); however, it arouses suspicion as a funky magician prop, so it does not fit into the organic ideal. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: jconstantine (Nov 2, 2014 07:42PM)
Why is anyone listening to Craig anyway. With his last dishonest outright theft RED. Since that I have pretty much sworn off WMS all together. I hope I don't magically (pun intended) get banned for expressing my opinion. As far as the thread subject, go with paperclipped. Nothing is fairer and the switch is perfect. Also if need be the prop (paperclip) can be examined. I'm sure the box cannot be examined.
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Nov 2, 2014 07:54PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Jon Allen wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Fatgumbo wrote:

Hi certainly. You have previously mentioned (not on this thread) using the destination box for walk around by giving it to the spectator to hold at the start of the routine. What do you think is more practical, producing a glass box from your pocket and giving it to your spectator to hold, then place back in your pocket at the end, or carrying that wooden suitcase with you, and carrying it with both hands to the next table?

In terms of impact, a card which has been seen in full view the whole time and in the spectators hands which undoubtedly could not have been switched makes for a stronger impact. I observed this when switching from kennedy's mystery box to mark southworth's the box. [/quote]

Thanks.

I do indeed use my Destination Box for walkaround. From the two options you gave, the more practical is the glass box. However, seeing as my Destination Box is not the size of a suitcase and does not require two hands to carry it round, it go with the one that doesn't come from my pocket, taking up more pocket space. You call my box a suitcase for which you need to use both hands which is funny. Just how small are you? :-)

As for impact, this is purely subjective. Whenever people say X is stronger than Y, if they have genuinely worked both X and Y for laymen and discovered that X is stronger then nobody can argue against their experience. You wrote that my Destination Box is sub-par compared to David's one but you have not used either? [/quote]

yes it is subjective because it is my opinion. The argument I made was based upon an opaque box vs. a transparent box, and argued that dave's is stronger because it is transparent and smaller. Please don't change the wording of my argument.

Also, it was quite transparent that my usage of the word 'suitcase' was merely figurative, no need to poke fun at my stature for it.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 2, 2014 09:02PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, jconstantine wrote:
Why is anyone listening to Craig anyway. With his last dishonest outright theft RED. Since that I have pretty much sworn off WMS all together. I hope I don't magically (pun intended) get banned for expressing my opinion. As far as the thread subject, go with paperclipped. Nothing is fairer and the switch is perfect. Also if need be the prop (paperclip) can be examined. I'm sure the box cannot be examined. [/quote]

:-)
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Nov 2, 2014 09:13PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, jconstantine wrote:

[b]Why is anyone listening to Craig anyway. With his last dishonest outright theft RED.[/b][/quote]

That should keep him in his place for a little while . . . . but I am sure he will be back soon with his hype machine. ;) :)

[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, jconstantine wrote:

As far as the thread subject, go with paperclipped. Nothing is fairer and the switch is perfect. Also if need be the prop (paperclip) can be examined. [b]I'm sure the box cannot be examined.[/b] [/quote]

. . . but Lager Switch by Alexander de Cova can be examined. :)

All of a sudden we see a spur of Card to Crystal Box props popping up. It would now be in the best interest of the consumer that an honest comparison be made of the many such props . . . till then my humble suggestion for the prospective buyer would be to wait for an honest and impartial comparative review . . . . but I am afraid, with the bigwigs involved with their Hype Machines, that might never come.

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: Angelo Carbone (Nov 2, 2014 09:43PM)
Why is any box a problem? The more card to/in box products are out there, the more choice there is for the consumer. X is better than Y, Y is better than X. It doesn't matter. Buy what you like and use what you want. Simple. We all don't want to be performing with the same props at our gigs, so choice is good. :)
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Nov 2, 2014 09:53PM)
. . . . but no harm in waiting for a good, honest, impartial comparative review (like I said earlier - IF it ever comes) so as to help the consumer select the right suitable prop for his need. Right? :)

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 2, 2014 10:11PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Ustaad wrote:
. . . . but no harm in waiting for a good, honest, impartial comparative review (like I said earlier - IF it ever comes) so as to help the consumer select the right suitable prop for his need. Right? :)

:xmas: [/quote]

It is so cool to have you back Narendra...

Also a heartfelt apology to David Penn from me regarding his choice of the music on his demo video. Apparently (unbeknownst to moi) this was music that anyone can buy, and apparently many magic producers have.
Message: Posted by: genius (Nov 2, 2014 10:20PM)
I got one word for you, craig petty. I wont say it, but it is a color. Not blue or yellow. So there...lol.

Mindblowingly,
Charles
Message: Posted by: Magic Oli (Nov 3, 2014 12:44AM)
Here's an idea for you all:

Why don't you stop being a bunch of b*tches? You are literally having an fight over something you guys know absolutely nothing about, calm down like seriously, no need to get all defensive and sh*tty with anyone who disagrees with you. Also, in regards to Craig and RED; get over it. He made a mistake, I'm sure you lot aren't perfect and I'm sure you've done something that you shouldn't have. Leave the bloke alone. Craig is a person, he doesn't claim to be perfect so stop treating him like he acts like he is. Oh and also, saying RED is not a very good argument, it just makes you look like a complete and utter prat. Everyone needs to get over themselves. By the way, Craig, I miss seeing you on the WPR and hope everything with your family and business is all good :)

Oli
Message: Posted by: Magic Oli (Nov 3, 2014 01:10AM)
Oh and also, If you don't like it or want it then don't buy it, simple. You don't have to let everyone know why, most of us don't care about what you like to buy
Message: Posted by: tricktac (Nov 3, 2014 01:17AM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:
I thought you weren't going to argue.

That didn't last long!

The fact that you used the Coarity Box means you purchased it. So at some point you must have thought that having a clear box was better than Destination Box as you stated that you used Destination Box for 5 years and Clarity Box is a recent product. By spending money on something you must have at least liked the idea. I imagine that having performed with the clarity box you decided Destination Box is better - why was that?

Oh and Jamie, thanks for the welcome.

Craig. [/quote]
I've pretty much every card to impossible location going, I'm a junkie, so I never thought clarity box was better, just different. But I can honestly say that as far as a signed card the fact that it's not seen makes the reactions that much stronger.

What mystery solved looks like it will be good for is a business card or billet prediction.
Message: Posted by: puggo (Nov 3, 2014 01:27AM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, Angelo Carbone wrote:
Why is any box a problem? The more card to/in box products are out there, the more choice there is for the consumer. X is better than Y, Y is better than X. It doesn't matter. Buy what you like and use what you want. Simple. We all don't want to be performing with the same props at our gigs, so choice is good. :) [/quote]

Well said Mr C.
Message: Posted by: Craig Petty (Nov 3, 2014 02:07AM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, jconstantine wrote:
Why is anyone listening to Craig anyway. With his last dishonest outright theft RED. Since that I have pretty much sworn off WMS all together. I hope I don't magically (pun intended) get banned for expressing my opinion. As far as the thread subject, go with paperclipped. Nothing is fairer and the switch is perfect. Also if need be the prop (paperclip) can be examined. I'm sure the box cannot be examined. [/quote]

I love it when people bring up Red it's the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and saying 'I can't structure a real argument so instead I'm just going to bring up
Something that has nothing to do with the discussion in question!'

Yes I made a mistake and you know what I tried to fix it. I did everything in my power to fix it and will never release another product again. There are many people out there that rip products off daily and keep doing it - why not go after them? Probably because they aren't hear on this thread.

But please don't stop with Red bring some other stuff up. Don't you know I bullied a cripple. I expose illusions to Corporate audiences. I run a children's magic company that's ruining the children's entertainment industry and taking work off real magicians. They so much more to go at.

If you want to talk about this stuff fine phone me. I don't hide - my number is all over the net. But please do not insult my intelligence by using it to try and stop me contributing to a discussion about a product I am interested in. That's just pathetic.

Oh and regarding paper clipped it's a good trick but if your sooooo hot on call out rip off you might want to stop calling it the name Jay Sankey gave it when he ripped it off and credit to to Alexander DeCova who actually created it. Or do you not care about other rip offs or was your post just a way to take a shot at me?
Craig
Message: Posted by: Raj Suman (Nov 3, 2014 02:33AM)
They are idiots Craig. They have nothing else to do but try to make you feel bad but there are lots of people including me who like hearing about your opinion so keep on going and don't let them stop it! Thanks, Raj.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Nov 3, 2014 02:56AM)
For me:
a perspex box is for a magician, where reality doesn't especially matter in a performance (as in, you can have pretty much whatever you want out on a table, in the pocket or even under your toupee if you want to) - so you can strange things happen (i thought the weakest presentation for paperclipped was when the mystery card was in fact, somehow, their own signed card - that for me just said 'well, he switches it in some way', whereas a matching one with a different coloured back makes it look and feel like a possible prediction)...having it out at the beginning, the card clearly displayed gives it an inevitability to your presentation "look, we're using cards, and look - in the see thru box, a card...i can join up the dots, I'm not silly"

a paperclip or a wooden box is more for mentalism, because it is more ordinary object, and there is the inherent mystery of "well, that box is there, I wonder what's in it?" - I liked eugene burger's thinking of (if you're using a box to hold your props in) - to never let people see inside the box, and you treat it as a highly personal 'space'. There are even paperclip stands out there for about a fiver that look both a little odd, but kinda nice at the same time. But a small wooden box of some kind, I think its far healthier and in keeping with the mundane side of mentalism items to be a more standard looking item... I've used a wedding/party favour box before, they can hold a MCF...and I've used a small brass trinket box with a nice little peacock design on it for a folded billet...you can get 'em on e.bay...

the de cova lager switch is very good..
Message: Posted by: am.magic (Nov 3, 2014 06:54AM)
A most interesting thread, however, at the end of the day, if you like a product, buy it, if you don't like it, then no one is forcing you to buy that product. Surely it is better to have these different methods props for revealing predictions, it would be a boring workd if we all used the same one.
Message: Posted by: Molando (Nov 3, 2014 07:09AM)
I like it. Each performer to their own style. Will probably use it at the dinner table or pubs.
I will have it sitting on a table somewhere I am unable to reach, with either a mini paper bag with a paper handle on, or a wrapping paper cover with a bow on (if it is somebodies birthday), so the box is covered and they have no idea what is there. no bottom to the bag so it can be lifted directly up.

I will let the audience know it is there, and may ask them to make sure I do not go near it as I can not be trusted.

Would not be the first trick. After a small ACR, when I have made the signed card vanish and go hunting for it, hamming it up a bit. will then either lift up by the bow or handle with a fork held at arms length (if at a dinner table), or may have somebody else lift it up to reveal the transparent box. Will just leave the bag on the table (so they can get the idea to examine it, and can), or let the person keep it.

Will let the idea sit with them for a while, then reach over, tip out the card and hand it still folded at arms length with fingertips to one of the people there. Then sit and wait.

If having a bit of flirty fun, would have also stuck a sticker on the face of the card with my e-mail address on.

They have seen that I have not been near it. the box is innocent as transparent, the bag is dubious, but have let them keep it.

To me the card sitting there in full view all the time is a bit much, they know what is going to happen.

Only time may use it that way would be through a challenge to them to pick a card which is not the same as the card in the box whilst I influence them (bit of fun comedy, faces, noise, bad puns). Let them have a deck, let them between themselves choose a card and make sure I do not see it. Then use an extractor. The reveal is clean. The joy of the trick is the journey, not the reveal at the end.

To me this works well, as I am making them choose a duplicate of the card in the box which has been in view all of the time.

Personally a clear box is an innocent prop. if half the box was black plastic, it would loose much of its innocence.

I use wow 2.0 often as an ultimate three card monte kicker.
Tell people it is one of the card holders that kids use to protect their Pokémon cards, using it so that I can not interfere with the card once it is inside. before it is used, have it standing up against something so they can see light going through it. Have used it many many times, and it has never drawn any heat. If you can get away with that, see no reason why a clear box will cause any problems.
Message: Posted by: Mr Magic Trousers (Nov 3, 2014 07:17AM)
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:
Don't you know I bullied a cripple. I expose illusions to Corporate audiences. I run a children's magic company that's ruining the children's entertainment industry and taking work off real magicians.[/quote]

Please explain more.
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Nov 3, 2014 07:31AM)
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Mr Magic Trousers wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:
Don't you know I bullied a cripple. I expose illusions to Corporate audiences. I run a children's magic company that's ruining the children's entertainment industry and taking work off real magicians.[/quote]

Please explain more. [/quote]

How about he doesn't, and you do a bit of searching on the Café before you further de-rail this thread with your pointless and irrelevant comments?
Message: Posted by: Raj Suman (Nov 3, 2014 08:06AM)
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Fatgumbo wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Mr Magic Trousers wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:
Don't you know I bullied a cripple. I expose illusions to Corporate audiences. I run a children's magic company that's ruining the children's entertainment industry and taking work off real magicians.[/quote]

Please explain more. [/quote]

How about he doesn't, and you do a bit of searching on the Café before you further de-rail this thread with your pointless and irrelevant comments? [/quote]
You are very nasty saying that comment. Like a bullying in the playground. Maybe you can be nice and apologise and talk about the product than being nasty all the time.
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Nov 3, 2014 08:08AM)
I wouldn't hold your breath Raj.
Message: Posted by: Raj Suman (Nov 3, 2014 08:19AM)
OK I wont , I'm not a Harry Houdini underwater! :)
Message: Posted by: genius (Nov 3, 2014 08:54AM)
It is a sad day indeed when anyone admits to bullying a cripple.

Mindblowingly,
Charles

[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Fatgumbo wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Mr Magic Trousers wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:
Don't you know I bullied a cripple. I expose illusions to Corporate audiences. I run a children's magic company that's ruining the children's entertainment industry and taking work off real magicians.[/quote]

Please explain more. [/quote]

How about he doesn't, and you do a bit of searching on the Café before you further de-rail this thread with your pointless and irrelevant comments? [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Nov 3, 2014 08:56AM)
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Raj Suman wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Fatgumbo wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Mr Magic Trousers wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Craig Petty wrote:
Don't you know I bullied a cripple. I expose illusions to Corporate audiences. I run a children's magic company that's ruining the children's entertainment industry and taking work off real magicians.[/quote]

Please explain more. [/quote]

How about he doesn't, and you do a bit of searching on the Café before you further de-rail this thread with your pointless and irrelevant comments? [/quote]
You are very nasty saying that comment. Like a bullying in the playground. Maybe you can be nice and apologise and talk about the product than being nasty all the time. [/quote]

Is Don Dasher back?
Message: Posted by: James Diamond (Nov 3, 2014 09:50AM)
Let's stay on topic gentlemen.
Message: Posted by: atouchofmagic1 (Nov 3, 2014 01:23PM)
Agreed, this bickering is getting old I thought I got out of high school some time ago.

-Bobby
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Nov 3, 2014 01:47PM)
I personally do not believe everything has to be "organic" merely that it needs to be innocent. To me a clear Perspex box, whilst not necessarily organic, certainly appears to be innocent. What could it possibly hide? This would be ideal for a lottery illusion, attention is drawn to the box at the very start with instructions to ensure that the contents remain in view the entire show. When it finally comes to the lottery effect the numbers are called out by the audience. The performer again draws attention to the clear box that has been in view the whole time, walks over, cleanly tips out the contents and hands the folded lottery ticket to a spectator. Both the performers hands and the box are "clearly" seen to be otherwise empty.

Whether the box is returned to the table or pocketed, it is highly unlikely that the audience will think the box is in anyway responsible for the correct numbers being printed on that lottery ticket. Derren Brown used a huge glass box full of money in Evening of Wonders (I think), hardly "organic" but I do not think a single member of the audience were thinking "why has he got a big glass box, that's not an every day item". Context, as always, is king.

Like any prop of this type it is not an effect in and of itself it is merely a tool to assist in creating an effect. The effect you are trying to produce will determine if this is the right tool for you or if another would be a better fit. I will definitely be taking a close look at (through lol) this box when it is released. I would however agree that this is far better suited to a prediction effect than to a card to impossible location effect.

Mark
Message: Posted by: genius (Nov 3, 2014 02:10PM)
This is a great prop for magicians.

Mindblowingly,
Charles
Message: Posted by: Steve Hook (Nov 3, 2014 03:35PM)
[quote]On Nov 2, 2014, tricktac wrote:
Aha, the truth is out, he hurt your feelings, and you are sticking up for a mate. [/quote]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 3, 2014 04:32PM)
So some of you have accused me of 'stirring' rather than 'scooping' on this thread.

In response I'm going to go back to my roots now to shock you with my latest scoop about Mystery Solved.

Get ready here it comes....

You all first saw the Mystery Solved box back in September. Don't believe me? Check out the shelf behind Mark and Dave on this WPR.

http://www.worldmagicshop.com/wizard-product-review-221/

There it is for all to see!

Is it subliminal advertising or something darker?

I'm not telling. The Scoopmaster's sources are the best kept secret in magic ;)
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Nov 3, 2014 05:02PM)
Truly a magnificent scoop, Jamie! :cheering:
Message: Posted by: Raj Suman (Nov 3, 2014 05:31PM)
I can see it too on the glass it is. That is a good observation. How do you know to look?
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Nov 3, 2014 05:32PM)
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
Derren Brown used a huge glass box full of money in Evening of Wonders (I think), hardly "organic" but I do not think a single member of the audience were thinking "why has he got a big glass box, that's not an every day item". Context, as always, is king.

Mark [/quote]

Not sure that's the best example, Mark. I don't think you can really compare a prop used in a large-scale stage show to a prop for close up mentalism. Derren was putting on a large, theatrical production. A large glass box was "organic" within that context. At the end of the evening his final reveal was on large revolving circular boards; a close up mentalism would be unwise to use mini-revolving circular boards in a close up routine. In fact, didn't he don a gorilla suit at one point? Another item I might skip in a close up setting.

In general, I would say mentalists should think carefully before introducing any unusual items into their close up performances.
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Nov 3, 2014 05:38PM)
Who said anything about close up? If I were to use this box for a lottery prediction for example it would be in a stage/cabaret/platform show. Close up I would probably produce the lottery ticket from my wallet.

Mark
Message: Posted by: James Diamond (Nov 3, 2014 05:39PM)
Took me and my poor eyesight a little while to find it, but it's nice and clear from around the 5:45 mark when the camera goes off the sticks.

Nice one!
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Nov 3, 2014 05:48PM)
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
Who said anything about close up? If I were to use this box for a lottery prediction for example it would be in a stage/cabaret/platform show. Close up I would probably produce the lottery ticket from my wallet.

Mark [/quote]

I think it looks a little small for a stage/platform show?
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Nov 3, 2014 06:24PM)
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
Who said anything about close up? If I were to use this box for a lottery prediction for example it would be in a stage/cabaret/platform show. Close up I would probably produce the lottery ticket from my wallet.

Mark [/quote]

I think it looks a little small for a stage/platform show? [/quote]

Depends on the size, if I do a cabaret it tends to be between 60 and 150 people. Whilst they may not be able to clearly see the exact contents they will be able to see that the box is clear and has something inside. For a larger stage show this could very easily be projected onto a bigger screen so both the box and it's contents are clearly visible.

I'm fairly confident that for the purpose of holding a lottery ticket which would be tipped out and immediately handed to a spectator to open this would be fine. If the box is positioned stage left and the volunteer is stage right it would make sense me picking up the box and tipping the contents out, great thing with the lid is it should be possible to lift the lid and tip the contents straight into the spectators hand although not really necessary.

I will reserve full judgement until I can see the box in the flesh so to speak.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 4, 2014 02:19AM)
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, James Diamond wrote:
Took me and my poor eyesight a little while to find it, but it's nice and clear from around the 5:45 mark when the camera goes off the sticks.

Nice one! [/quote]
Well spotted Hawkeye.

If you look back at previous episodes you'll see many interesting things on the shelves, put there for those in the know to see, signals to the community if you like.

Hidden in plain sight ;)
Message: Posted by: magicinsight (Nov 4, 2014 01:40PM)
[quote]On Nov 4, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
[quote]On Nov 3, 2014, James Diamond wrote:
Took me and my poor eyesight a little while to find it, but it's nice and clear from around the 5:45 mark when the camera goes off the sticks.

Nice one! [/quote]
Well spotted Hawkeye.

If you look back at previous episodes you'll see many interesting things on the shelves, put there for those in the know to see, signals to the community if you like.

Hidden in plain sight ;) [/quote]

It's kinda like the hidden messages in The Beatles album covers or songs (Paul is dead type of thing).
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Nov 4, 2014 01:46PM)
Paul is dead man! Miss him...miss him....
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 4, 2014 02:17PM)
If anyone has any outstanding questions about Mystery Solved you'll probably find them answered in tomorrow's WPR. Although the show doesn't usually focus on WMS products an exception is being made this week.

I'll be watching. Will you?
Message: Posted by: Al Straker (Nov 4, 2014 08:06PM)
I think this is a brilliantly designed prop and it will be useful for those who want to take this route. The strength of this from an audience point of view all hinges on one concept. The box is clear and they can see the card in the box right throughout the routine and the box provides a form of 'isolation' of the object lifting the impossibility of manipulating it somehow during the routine.

So here's some food for thought. What if you were to take an un-gimmicked clear box and have a paper clipped card resting in it. You could ask the spectator to hold the box without fear and even open the lid as you reach in. You can also be extremely clean and fair when removing the card from the box. You then 'execute the business' as you ask them to close the lid of the box and hold out their other hand - perfect misdirection and you simply place the un-clipped card on their other hand as y6ou place the paperclip away in your pocket doing round 2 of 'the business'. Your spectator now has all the 'props' in their own hands and they can be examined to their hearts content. Now ask yourself what the audience has just seen and how they would describe it.....

1. I was given a clear box to hold with a paper clipped card in side it.
2. I chose a card from a deck and signed it, and lost it in the deck, shuffled etc.
3. The magician then asked me to open the lid of the box I was holding the whole time.
4. He took out the card and placed it on my hand.
5. When I unfolded it, this was my signed card!!
6. I checked everything and there was no explanation.

Just some food for thought.....

Cheers
Al
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Nov 4, 2014 09:23PM)
[quote]On Nov 4, 2014, Al Straker wrote:
I think this is a brilliantly designed prop and it will be useful for those who want to take this route. The strength of this from an audience point of view all hinges on one concept. The box is clear and they can see the card in the box right throughout the routine and the box provides a form of 'isolation' of the object lifting the impossibility of manipulating it somehow during the routine.

So here's some food for thought. What if you were to take an un-gimmicked clear box and have a paper clipped card resting in it. You could ask the spectator to hold the box without fear and even open the lid as you reach in. You can also be extremely clean and fair when removing the card from the box. You then 'execute the business' as you ask them to close the lid of the box and hold out their other hand - perfect misdirection and you simply place the un-clipped card on their other hand as y6ou place the paperclip away in your pocket doing round 2 of 'the business'. Your spectator now has all the 'props' in their own hands and they can be examined to their hearts content. Now ask yourself what the audience has just seen and how they would describe it.....

1. I was given a clear box to hold with a paper clipped card in side it.
2. I chose a card from a deck and signed it, and lost it in the deck, shuffled etc.
3. The magician then asked me to open the lid of the box I was holding the whole time.
4. He took out the card and placed it on my hand.
5. When I unfolded it, this was my signed card!!
6. I checked everything and there was no explanation.

Just some food for thought.....

Cheers
Al [/quote]

:applause: :applause: :applause:
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Nov 5, 2014 02:03AM)
[quote]On Nov 4, 2014, Al Straker wrote:

[b]I think this is a brilliantly designed prop and it will be useful for those who want to take this route.[/b] The strength of this from an audience point of view all hinges on one concept. The box is clear and they can see the card in the box right throughout the routine and the box provides a form of 'isolation' of the object lifting the impossibility of manipulating it somehow during the routine.
[/quote]

The design of the gimmicked prop might be quite brilliant, but as I look at the props design, the prop in my eyes has a major limitation. After the dirty work is accomplished the prop must be left lying on its side. Let the many ardent supporters of the creator thrash me on this (but that's OK with me :)), but the FACT remains that keeping the box lying on its side simply looks awkward. I am sure people in their good senses will agree with me as to what I am trying to harp and convey from the very first post (on this thread) of mine.

[quote]On Nov 4, 2014, Al Straker wrote:

So here's some food for thought. [b]What if you were to take an un-gimmicked clear box[/b] and have a paper clipped card resting in it. You could ask the spectator to hold the box without fear and even open the lid as you reach in. You can also be extremely clean and fair when removing the card from the box. You then 'execute the business' as you ask them to close the lid of the box and hold out their other hand - perfect misdirection and you simply place the un-clipped card on their other hand as y6ou place the paperclip away in your pocket doing round 2 of 'the business'. Your spectator now has all the 'props' in their own hands and they can be examined to their hearts content. Now ask yourself what the audience has just seen and how they would describe it.....

1. I was given a clear box to hold with a paper clipped card in side it.
2. I chose a card from a deck and signed it, and lost it in the deck, shuffled etc.
3. The magician then asked me to open the lid of the box I was holding the whole time.
4. He took out the card and placed it on my hand.
5. When I unfolded it, this was my signed card!!
6. I checked everything and there was no explanation.

Just some food for thought.....
[/quote]

Appreciate the nice performance idea using an [b]un-gimmicked clear box[/b] with a paper-clipped card placed inside the box.

The same performance idea can be applied but without a paper-clipped card by using Alexander de Cova's Lager Switch, which in my opinion is simply brilliant.

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: TheTableTopTrixta (Nov 5, 2014 02:38AM)
I have just seen this.

It is flawless in design and operation. The DVD is so well produced, really classy.

This could have been priced higher, a lot higher.

The size is not a problem and I was surprised that angles aren't really a problem at all.

Just my thoughts.
Ps - who is Jamie F? Café legend!
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 5, 2014 04:52AM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, TheTableTopTrixta wrote:
I have just seen this.

It is flawless in design and operation. The DVD is so well produced, really classy.

This could have been priced higher, a lot higher.

The size is not a problem and I was surprised that angles aren't really a problem at all.

Just my thoughts.
Ps - who is Jamie F? Café legend! [/quote]
I'm not a legend. Just some guy who likes to share the occasional scoop.

Might have more news for you soon ;)
Message: Posted by: twistedace (Nov 5, 2014 06:00AM)
I really like the idea of having the card paper clipped in a clear box. It's a bit overkill, but a great idea. My buddy and I debate which is stronger all the time: the Kennedy Box or Paperclipped. I personally like the box, but use both. I use Paperclipped for different applications. I actually don't like the idea of a clear box. I bought Regal's box, but want to get rid of it for many of the reasons listed. This new box has some advantages and some disadvantages. To each his own.
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Nov 5, 2014 11:49AM)
For me personally the limitations aren't a problem as once the item comes out of the box the box becomes dead there should be absolutely zero heat on the box, the prediction should always be the focus not the container used to hold it. Once the prediction comes out of that box if my audience give one, let alone two hoots about the box then I have failed. This of course may not be true when the box is being used for a card to impossible location/transposition type effect. For the type of prediction effect that I am likely to use this for there should be no logical way in which a clear box could have anything at all to do with the outcome.

Even close up I don't think I'd have problems justifying it. I would simply talk about esp testing and test conditions. The prediction needing to be both isolated and fully visible from start to finish. I could probably get some mileage out of talking about the Randi challenge and use the box to illustrate the conditions required to claim the prize. Using this for a lottery prediction then allows me to joke about needing to make my mind up whether to claim the Randi prize or the lottery jackpot.

Let me just add that I am not specifically a fan of David Penn, I did use his fobbed (although his handling on the trailer nearly put me right off), fortunately a far more natural looking handling is pretty simple to achieve. I do have coinvexed 3 although I prefer the QB. I met David for all of about a minute at lads and he seemed like a pleasant chap but I have no relationship or affiliation with DP whatsoever and personally don't care one way or another whether anyone else buys this particular box. I will certainly be taking a close look once it is released with a view to possibly using it myself. At this point in time I have not seen the box in the flesh, only on video.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 5, 2014 02:59PM)
Check out this weeks WPR for a 'close-up' of the Mystery Solved box. Have a look at the last couple of seconds of the video. David shows you exactly what you're getting. He can't be more fair.

Also (scoop) look out for a sly dig at Hidden Hand around the 5.24 mark ;)
Message: Posted by: rasmus (Nov 5, 2014 04:01PM)
This box looks really nice and as clean as it gets.

rather then perform it as a card to impossible location I would do it as a 100% surefire card
prediction. the reason is simple: if the card is allready there in the box and at the end revealed
as the signed card of the spectator, the first conclusion will be, that the card had to be switched.
that imho is a dead giveaway and will burn the whole heat onto the box as a switching device.

if I would do card to impossible location, I would definetly coverup the box with a cloth or similar
item. then I explain that the spectators signed card has vanished out of the deck. after that, removing
the cloth and showing the card inside the box. now tipping out the card to show, that this is the spectators card.

perhaps the gimmick gives the ability to be shown empty at the beginning and then to be covered with a cloth and after that showing, that a card has appeared? that really would be great.

that said, with all clear switching devices, I would never ever show the card allready in the box, when you perform
with a signed card.

just my 5 swiss francs and congrats to david for this nice little device
Message: Posted by: magicinsight (Nov 5, 2014 04:05PM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Check out this weeks WPR for a 'close-up' of the Mystery Solved box. Have a look at the last couple of seconds of the video. David shows you exactly what you're getting. He can't be more fair.

Also (scoop) look out for a sly dig at Hidden Hand around the 5.24 mark ;) [/quote]

Jamie,

Totally agree with you. I like the fact that you can show the box empty and put a note inside and then later take it out. Looks great!
Michael
Message: Posted by: Magic Oli (Nov 5, 2014 10:37PM)
I saw that dig too mr ferguson very funny
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 6, 2014 02:16AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Magic Oli wrote:
I saw that dig too mr ferguson very funny [/quote]
Nice one Oli, you're one of the sharp ones. ;)
Message: Posted by: Russell Davidson (Nov 6, 2014 03:09AM)
Looks a good product to me. Glad I don't post here often anymore, nothing has changed, whinging & moaning for pages on end.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 6, 2014 03:19AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Russell Davidson wrote:
Looks a good product to me. Glad I don't post here often anymore, nothing has changed, whinging & moaning for pages on end. [/quote]
Yes, including you by the looks of it ;)
Message: Posted by: deanbarlow (Nov 6, 2014 03:26AM)
Hi guys,
Can the box be shown empty prior to the effect, placed into a cloth bag, gimmick activated, card selected, MCF and then the card tipped out of it?
Thanks in advance.
Message: Posted by: Sashac (Nov 6, 2014 03:50AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, deanbarlow wrote:
Hi guys,
Can the box be shown empty prior to the effect, placed into a cloth bag, gimmick activated, card selected, MCF and then the card tipped out of it?
Thanks in advance. [/quote]

Yes.
Message: Posted by: Russell Davidson (Nov 6, 2014 03:52AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Russell Davidson wrote:
Looks a good product to me. Glad I don't post here often anymore, nothing has changed, whinging & moaning for pages on end. [/quote]
Yes, including you by the looks of it ;) [/quote]

Whatever no mark.
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Nov 6, 2014 03:52AM)
I asked if earlier if cards had to be mcf'd but they look folded in half?
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 6, 2014 03:57AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Sashac wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, deanbarlow wrote:
Hi guys,
Can the box be shown empty prior to the effect, placed into a cloth bag, gimmick activated, card selected, MCF and then the card tipped out of it?
Thanks in advance. [/quote]

Yes. [/quote]
Ye....as long as you manage your audience.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 6, 2014 04:01AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Russell Davidson wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Russell Davidson wrote:
Looks a good product to me. Glad I don't post here often anymore, nothing has changed, whinging & moaning for pages on end. [/quote]
Yes, including you by the looks of it ;) [/quote]

Whatever no mark. [/quote]
See, I was right. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Nov 6, 2014 04:17AM)
To be fair, Jamie, Russell is usually pretty cheerful when his products get promoted on here. ;-)
Message: Posted by: deanbarlow (Nov 6, 2014 04:24AM)
Cheers chaps,
If this is the case that the box can be shown empty prior to the card 'appearing' in it this could be good.
Message: Posted by: pepka (Nov 6, 2014 05:41AM)
The most curious thing to me is that this and 3Sixty seem about to hit the market at the same time. In the eyes of a laymen, they would be identical, although they have different methods. I am wary of how the 3Sixty method will look in the real world. But I REALLY don't see the advantage of having the card in a clear box.....mentalism and billet applications sure, but not for a signed card to box.
Message: Posted by: MagicDamo (Nov 6, 2014 07:56AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Sashac wrote:
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, deanbarlow wrote:
Hi guys,
Can the box be shown empty prior to the effect, placed into a cloth bag, gimmick activated, card selected, MCF and then the card tipped out of it?
Thanks in advance. [/quote]

Yes. [/quote]
Ye....as long as you manage your audience. [/quote]

When showing the box empty prior to the effect will the box need to be on it's side rather than upright? if so it would look a bit odd.
Message: Posted by: ftlum (Nov 6, 2014 08:41AM)
In every picture where the seemingly empty box is shown, the box has to either be held or put on an upside down glass.
Can the empty-looking box simply be set down on a (non-glass) table or close up mat?
Message: Posted by: James Diamond (Nov 6, 2014 10:00AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, ftlum wrote:
In every picture where the seemingly empty box is shown, the box has to either be held or put on an upside down glass.
Can the empty-looking box simply be set down on a (non-glass) table or close up mat? [/quote]


David's been very fair in his trailer and what he's shown of Mystery Solved, so it's pretty clear (no pun intended) what you're getting.

So with that in mind but without saying anything more, no, it probably won't look right putting it on a non glass surface or close up mat...
Message: Posted by: Darkness (Nov 6, 2014 11:55AM)
Its rare to see any creator be so forth coming in his pre release. Even after a clear demo in the original trailer. But in light of other pre release gong shows, good call. No one can complain after they receive it. Very smart and "classic" design, if I'm correct in assuming.

When finished with the box and since it's clear, you have no need to put it on display or have it examined. It fits in your pocket, out of sight, out of mind.
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Nov 6, 2014 02:05PM)
I still think it's okay..Just a tad pricey for a poor hobbyist :(
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Nov 6, 2014 07:42PM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, rasmus wrote:

rather then perform it as a card to impossible location I would do it as a 100% surefire card
prediction. the reason is simple: if the card is allready there in the box and at the end revealed
as the signed card of the spectator, the first conclusion will be, that the card had to be switched.
that imho is a dead giveaway and will burn the whole heat onto the box as a switching device.

if I would do card to impossible location, I would definetly coverup the box with a cloth or similar
item. then I explain that the spectators signed card has vanished out of the deck. after that, removing
the cloth and showing the card inside the box. now tipping out the card to show, that this is the spectators card.

[b]perhaps the gimmick gives the ability to be shown empty at the beginning and then to be covered with a cloth and after that showing, that a card has appeared? that really would be great.

that said, with all clear switching devices, I would never ever show the card allready in the box, when you perform with a signed card.[/b]

just my 5 swiss francs and . . . . [/quote]

Exactly.

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: Darkness (Nov 6, 2014 07:47PM)
Got a good point there. I believe you can show it empty and make a card appear.
Message: Posted by: iramayami (Nov 6, 2014 11:52PM)
ITS amazing to see top profesionals and some not so to discuss a product like children ,you either like a product or not , If you like it great tell us why. how could we tell you not to like it if you do? if you don't like it tell us why and we will make our own decision by reading reviews ,simple and move on to another thing . There is no need to point fingers ( example on Craigs Red) there is no need to fish with questions to find out how a method is done if your a profesional just buy it if you like the reviews or if you belive your going to use it ,you don't need 10 pages of !@#$%ing around to make up your mind ,if you don't like it great if you hate it great ,the world wont change with any of the magic products that come out daily for sale ,it is the magician that will make the difrence on how he will use any product and make the best out of it . Mystery solved is something I find intresting enough for me to buy it and develop my own ideas on its use so it should be the same for anyone that purchases it. let go out to perform if you don't like this product just get your old pack of card and go perform , let make magic happen ,the world is waiting.
Message: Posted by: Steve Hook (Nov 7, 2014 02:43AM)
[quote]On Nov 7, 2014, iramayami wrote:
ITS amazing to see top profesionals and some not so to discuss a product like children ,you either like a product or not , If you like it great tell us why. how could we tell you not to like it if you do? if you don't like it tell us why and we will make our own decision by reading reviews ,simple and move on to another thing . There is no need to point fingers ( example on Craigs Red) there is no need to fish with questions to find out how a method is done if your a profesional just buy it if you like the reviews or if you belive your going to use it ,you don't need 10 pages of !@#$%ing around to make up your mind ,if you don't like it great if you hate it great ,the world wont change with any of the magic products that come out daily for sale ,it is the magician that will make the difrence on how he will use any product and make the best out of it . Mystery solved is something I find intresting enough for me to buy it and develop my own ideas on its use so it should be the same for anyone that purchases it. let go out to perform if you don't like this product just get your old pack of card and go perform , let make magic happen ,the world is waiting. [/quote]

Precisely. It's always puzzled me as to why guys who don't like a trick, prop, book, or video stick around and continue to complain. You nailed it, iramayami.
Message: Posted by: helpful (Nov 7, 2014 03:59AM)
[quote]On Nov 7, 2014, iramayami wrote:
ITS amazing to see top profesionals and some not so to discuss a product like children ,you either like a product or not , If you like it great tell us why. how could we tell you not to like it if you do? if you don't like it tell us why and we will make our own decision by reading reviews ,simple and move on to another thing . There is no need to point fingers ( example on Craigs Red) there is no need to fish with questions to find out how a method is done if your a profesional just buy it if you like the reviews or if you belive your going to use it ,you don't need 10 pages of !@#$%ing around to make up your mind ,if you don't like it great if you hate it great ,the world wont change with any of the magic products that come out daily for sale ,it is the magician that will make the difrence on how he will use any product and make the best out of it . Mystery solved is something I find intresting enough for me to buy it and develop my own ideas on its use so it should be the same for anyone that purchases it. let go out to perform if you don't like this product just get your old pack of card and go perform , let make magic happen ,the world is waiting. [/quote]

Couldn't agree more. But, what would an internet forum be without people pointlessly arguing over things that don't matter in the least?
Message: Posted by: davidredfearn (Nov 7, 2014 04:29AM)
Yes helpful .. the Café is not alone though see Jeff Hobson's post on Genii below makes interesting reading.

Yawn. Yes, this is an old and tired argument. I've heard it all before. The rants and pontifications of a few magicians? who's only accomplishments may be reading, writing about or otherwise critiquing others in the field. Performers? Maybe, for a short time or only occasionally. Mostly, armchair referees.


DR
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Nov 7, 2014 05:12AM)
[quote]On Nov 7, 2014, Steve Hook wrote:

Precisely. It's always puzzled me as to why guys who don't like a trick, prop, book, or video stick around and continue to complain. You nailed it, iramayami. [/quote]

Well, the Café would become a rather dull and sterile place if the threads consisted only of people saying how great a prop is and how much they are enjoying using it. Not only that, it would leave younger magicians at the mercy of the snake oil salesman and false advertisers among the "creator" community. A debate on the merits, uses, functionality and logic of a product are invaluable in my opinion.

If you don't like debate, you can always choose not to read the threads and stick to just reading the advertising copy?
Message: Posted by: helpful (Nov 7, 2014 01:21PM)
[quote]On Nov 7, 2014, Martin Pulman wrote:
Not only that, it would leave younger magicians at the mercy of the snake oil salesman and false advertisers among the "creator" community.[/quote]

Yeah, it would be really bad if advertisers could get a HIDDEN HAND getting threads removed that would damage sales.
Message: Posted by: 1KJ (Nov 7, 2014 03:24PM)
Another one of these boxes? Really? Aren't there enough of these? And who really wants to carry around a box like this to do a card production? David Regal came out with the mondo box, someone else came out with one about the size of a tic tac box (perhaps better), and now we have another that is somewhere in between? At least David Regal's box had a bit of a theme with the "emergency tape" around it. What is the patter for this? "I carry this dorky plastic box with a card in it. Here's your card, but clearly you can't examine my little box. Hey! Get your own dorky box! Let me show you another trick to distract you from my useless box."

Sorry, but why do the products still spew out when the creativity has waned?

KJ

P.S. I totally agree with Martin. This is a forum to discuss both sides of products. Well said, Martin.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 7, 2014 04:24PM)
1KJ, quit beating around the bush and tell us how you really feel. :)
Message: Posted by: 1KJ (Nov 7, 2014 07:26PM)
Videoman,

Was I too blunt? Sorry. I meant to say: "What a slap me up the *** fantastic new product this is! Where can I order three?"

My bad.

KJ
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Nov 7, 2014 10:53PM)
[quote]On Nov 7, 2014, 1KJ wrote:
Another one of these boxes? Really? Aren't there enough of these? And who really wants to carry around a box like this to do a card production? David Regal came out with the mondo box, someone else came out with one about the size of a tic tac box (perhaps better), and now we have another that is somewhere in between? At least David Regal's box had a bit of a theme with the "emergency tape" around it. What is the patter for this? "I carry this dorky plastic box with a card in it. Here's your card, but clearly you can't examine my little box. Hey! Get your own dorky box! Let me show you another trick to distract you from my useless box."

Sorry, but why do the products still spew out when the creativity has waned?

KJ

P.S. I totally agree with Martin. This is a forum to discuss both sides of products. Well said, Martin. [/quote]

And look at this ultra-dorky performance with a [i]wooden, opaque box[/i], which can't be shown to spectators afterwards, cannot be examined, and is super, super dorky in the extreme. [As an arch-dork, I have used this to good effect.]

[b]And[/b] he is so lame with his whole suit thing. Doh!

[youtube]CHUgeZQJ-wY[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Nov 7, 2014 11:01PM)
Now [b]that[/b] is what I call an illusion.
Message: Posted by: iramayami (Nov 7, 2014 11:25PM)
Martin Pulman is not about if debate is good or bad is the infinite defense or objection to a product, how many post on one product do each of us need to post to give our opinion on one product? afte first or second post for the same product I belive we could already know if some one likes it ,is going to use it,recommends it,likes the creators works,give the pros and cons of that product etc. it is pointless to say you love it 4/5 times and viceversa. That also falls into the category of comparing products,most of the working ,pro magicians have seen a version or so of the NEW tricks comming out so theres really nothing new under the sun just new ways to display them present them and on random ocations something that is truly amazing ,like any product in the world it is great to read reviews about the product to get a sense of what we will recoive from our purchase but to read the opinion of a product on the same trend for the same product more than once from any one of us is not really a debate it becomes an issue of one wanting to impose his opinion over the others. with humble respect to all my collages of course my humble opinion.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Nov 7, 2014 11:45PM)
Whoah there, cowboy...
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Nov 8, 2014 07:26AM)
I think credit where credit is due. The demo is clear and uncut and lets be honest; shows you exactly what you get. That's pretty rare these days. I think this looks great. Personally I think it has better applications with predictions than it does as a place to reveal a signed card but that's just my opinion.
Message: Posted by: Magic-Daniel (Nov 8, 2014 08:31AM)
+1 Paul

I wouldn't use it as a card reveal. Better applications I think
Message: Posted by: puggo (Nov 8, 2014 10:13AM)
[quote]On Nov 7, 2014, tomsk192 wrote:
[quote]On Nov 7, 2014, 1KJ wrote:
Another one of these boxes? ....
KJ
P.S. I totally agree with Martin. This is a forum to discuss both sides of products. Well said, Martin. [/quote]

And look at this ultra-dorky performance with a [i]wooden, opaque box[/i], which can't be shown to spectators afterwards, cannot be examined, and is super, super dorky in the extreme. [As an arch-dork, I have used this to good effect.]

[b]And[/b] he is so lame with his whole suit thing. Doh!

[/quote]

Yes, stick me down as a huge admirer of this ultra dorky performance with the dork-tastic props by the king d-meister..

I think that if a prop works for you, it cultivates interest or whatever, then why should it not be used?
I have no intention of buying this product (I have a few existing dorky variations of this plot already, which I am happy with), but think it looks good and would be great for a test conditions or prediction routine - perfectly motivated.

I personally believe that props help create an effect but the performer brings it to life.
Message: Posted by: David Regal (Nov 8, 2014 10:19AM)
I've been pretty much doing nothing but work on The Carbonaro Effect for the past year - I have returned to find my name mixed up a bit in this long thread. As to what prop is good, bad, better, worse... one magician's needs might not be the same as another's. I have not seen the Penn small-clear-box-thing (just saw the demo once), and I have not seen the Dobson small-clear-box-thing (again, just saw the demo once), but if a performer needs a smaller box, there they are. I have no negative comments about them. I do, however, want to be clear (no pun intended) about my own prop, The Clarity Box:

[b]Before I had a method [/b]for The Clarity Box, when all I had was an idea of the prop that would be useful to me, I took out a pen and I drew what I wanted. There was no method in my mind at that point, just the image of a clear box that had an "Emergency" label on it, and the box was the same size as it exists now. I wanted the box to be as large as possible, for visibility, and yet still fit into a jacket pocket for close-up work. I wanted the box to be an object of interest, to pique a person's curiosity. I wanted it to have a look like a break-glass-in-emergency chamber or a museum display case. I wanted it to have a little label that could identify what the box was supposed to be in the context of the routine - the premise. Is it a money bank, a prediction, an evidence holder, etc.

As I wrestled with a method, I looked at the elements in play, and came up with the workings as they exist today. But the drawing of what I wanted the prop to be came first.

I cannot discuss other props that have been introduced, but know that The Clarity Box is self-contained. There is nothing to get rid of or hide after the effect has been performed. In fact, I leave the box unattended on the table in front of a spectator.

Over the past year, The Clarity Box has been performed close-up, in stage settings, and has been featured on national television both in the US and abroad. It has fooled millions of people. If a magician finds merit in a prop that is smaller, or larger, or leather-bound, or made of wood - that's great. I'm simply saying that the elements I put into The Clarity Box were intentional.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 8, 2014 10:28AM)
Thanks for bringing clarity to the thread David.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Nov 9, 2014 12:21AM)
[quote]On Nov 7, 2014, helpful wrote:

Yeah, it would be really bad if advertisers could get a HIDDEN HAND getting threads removed that would damage sales. [/quote]

Oh get over it! In the Hidden Hand thread the entire method was exposed, including a diagram of the props as worn by a performer. You really thought that should stay up? Or that it was appropriate?

Jim
Message: Posted by: Ceierry (Nov 9, 2014 03:15AM)
Is this examinable? I know 3Sixty can be examined after :)
Message: Posted by: Daren (Nov 9, 2014 09:34AM)
Why would you want to examine a seemingly empty looking box, you dump card out and place away, the focus should be on the card
Message: Posted by: twistedace (Nov 9, 2014 09:52AM)
Why would you have the box examined? There was a card inside...now there isn't. I never hand out a Kennedy Box out after the card is dumped. I casually leave it on the table open. I think putting the clear and obviously empty box in your pocket after the dump is perfectly logical and natural. I'm curious to see some of the mentalism applications.
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Nov 9, 2014 10:00AM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, Ceierry wrote:
Is this examinable? I know 3Sixty can be examined after :) [/quote]

I'm not trying to be judgemental but it seems people need to get out in the real world and perform. Real people don't challenge every prop or everything a magician does contrary to popular belief. If these things are happening to you, you might want to consider doing something other than magic. One needs to perform with confidence not timidity. Bottom line, the only person who would want to examine a clear box is a magician.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 9, 2014 10:08AM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, Steven Conner wrote:
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, Ceierry wrote:
Is this examinable? I know 3Sixty can be examined after :) [/quote]

I'm not trying to be judgemental but it seems people need to get out in the real world and perform. Real people don't challenge every prop or everything a magician does contrary to popular belief. If these things are happening to you, you might want to consider doing something other than magic. One needs to perform with confidence not timidity. Bottom line, the only person who would want to examine a clear box is a magician. [/quote]
:applause:
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Nov 9, 2014 10:19AM)
I don't think examinability is an issue in a professional context. Some spectators may want to examine the box but very few will have the nerve to ask to.
Message: Posted by: Ceierry (Nov 9, 2014 12:08PM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, Steven Conner wrote:
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, Ceierry wrote:
Is this examinable? I know 3Sixty can be examined after :) [/quote]

I'm not trying to be judgemental but it seems people need to get out in the real world and perform. Real people don't challenge every prop or everything a magician does contrary to popular belief. If these things are happening to you, you might want to consider doing something other than magic. One needs to perform with confidence not timidity. Bottom line, the only person who would want to examine a clear box is a magician. [/quote]

Thanks for the answer, first of all, I'm just asking this because on the 3Sixty ad, it says Everything Examinable, and on this one, it don't say, and, watching at the performance, David take the box and put it on his jacket immediatelly after taking the card out of the box (and there is nothing wrong with this, even if it's examinable, it's David performance, not mine)
I'm not assuming I'm the best performer of all the world, but I'm not worried if it's not examinable, like most of us, I know how to manage my audience, and to have a 'nice' presentation.

Thanks for all the answers, If I looked rude or somthing, I'm sorry, it's just, I love what I do, I love performing my magic (I usually perform more mentalism than other styles) and I know, like most of us, how to manage my audience.

Sorry for my bad english btw, I've tried my best.

- Ceierry
Message: Posted by: pepka (Nov 9, 2014 11:43PM)
Tomsk192 is exactly right. There have been many excellent versions of signed card to box...I do believe that Tommy had the best and as I said in another thread, Stevie Wonder couldn't examine that box. It's as dirty as dirty can get. It's dirtier than every other version that has been commercially available and yet with proper technique and motivation, it looks incredible. Both Mystery Solved and 3Sixty look good to me, as does Clarity Box, but I have no need for a clear box. If I need a billet switch box, then I'll make a decision.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 9, 2014 11:49PM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, pepka wrote:
...I do believe that Tommy had the best and as I said in another thread, Stevie Wonder couldn't examine that box.[/quote]

I was never aware that Tommy had a brother.
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 10, 2014 05:27AM)
[quote]On Nov 10, 2014, videoman wrote:
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, pepka wrote:
...I do believe that Tommy had the best and as I said in another thread, Stevie Wonder couldn't examine that box.[/quote]

I was never aware that Tommy had a brother. [/quote]
I did wonder.
Message: Posted by: Raj Suman (Nov 11, 2014 09:45AM)
I tried to make my own to play with thinking I have seen what is happening in the video and it works pretty good but probably not as good as the real one from David. So I will be buying it when I can see it in real life, maybe at a dealer day. Its a very clever idea I think.
Message: Posted by: dp (Nov 21, 2014 04:11AM)
Hi Guys

Mystery Solved is shipping today from World Magic Shop to all customers who have pre ordered (with the free DVD) and over to the great team at Murphys that will take care of distributing it to a magic shop near you, very early next week.

The Pre Order deal is still available to 12 Midday (GMT). http://www.worldmagicshop.com/david-penns-mystery-solved/

Thank you for all your interest in this release and I look forward to the reviews.

All the best

David Penn
Message: Posted by: martinwhynot (Nov 23, 2014 03:57AM)
Got mine today.

I have one for sale.....

Said no one...ever!
It rocks!
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 23, 2014 04:02AM)
How did you manage to get it today?

There's no postal service and magic shops are closed. Hmmm.
Message: Posted by: martinwhynot (Nov 23, 2014 04:06AM)
Okay, Mr Pedantic, it came yesterday and I am using it now, today. 😉
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Nov 23, 2014 04:13AM)
He he, fair enough. :)

I bet it's brilliant. Dave always does fantastic DVDs to accompany his products IMHO. His routining is superior compared to most.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Nov 23, 2014 11:38AM)
David has certainly thought this one through. The 'advanced handling' is very pretty indeed, although it doesn't cover all angles. The regular handling is pretty much bomb proof.

There's also a bit of a 'Paper Crane moment', which is nice.

I think many of us guessed correctly what was going on, so essentially you'll be buying the correct sized box and the handling, plus some useful materials with which to customise it.
Message: Posted by: Cole Gross (Nov 24, 2014 02:06PM)
Hocus Pocus got this great item in today. As already expressed above, David great job on this one! Preorders are being packed now. If you haven't ordered this item yet check our link here to order now and receive FREE WORLDWIDE SHIPPING!

http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/?p=28309
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Nov 25, 2014 04:33AM)
[url=http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=571961&forum=109#0]Here is a review.[/url]
Message: Posted by: dp (Nov 26, 2014 11:48AM)
Thank you very much for taking the time over the review.

All the best

David
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Nov 26, 2014 03:26PM)
Mine arrived today and my first impressions are that it does exactly what it says on the tin. The illusion is perfect and I have absolutely no qualms about using it close up. I will be testing this out with my CUPP over the next few days.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Sashac (Nov 27, 2014 04:10AM)
I can't get the illusion to quite work. It's all about the angle in my experience. What angle should the be looking at it from?
Message: Posted by: dp (Nov 27, 2014 07:31AM)
[quote]On Nov 27, 2014, Sashac wrote:
I can't get the illusion to quite work. It's all about the angle in my experience. What angle should the be looking at it from? [/quote]

Hi there

As previously described, the angles are pretty much bomb proof unless you have someone laying on the floor. The basic handling can be viewed from pretty much every angle that a spectator would watch the routine from in normal performing conditions.

Take another look at the basic handling on the dvd and try it out on a friend. If need any more info feel free to pm me.

The response has been incredible, so thank you to everyone who has already purchased. It is great that now people are seeing first hand, all the design features that make this mini illusion so convincing.

Cheers

David
Message: Posted by: wally (Nov 27, 2014 08:18AM)
Which should I buy for adult close up David Penns mystery solved or mark southworth box ???? message me please, its a xmas pressy.
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Nov 27, 2014 08:22AM)
[quote]On Nov 27, 2014, wally wrote:
Which should I buy for adult close up David Penns mystery solved or mark southworth box ???? message me please, its a xmas pressy. [/quote]

mark southworth's box has a more 3 dimensional look to the folded up card but you need an extra "tool" to reset the gimmick and it can be troublesome to find and use unless you choose to install the tool into your card box or another object.
Message: Posted by: wally (Nov 27, 2014 09:28AM)
Looks like it maybe the mystery box solved for me, thanks,
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Nov 27, 2014 10:40AM)
Tried this out close up with the CUPP and it worked a charm. As far as justifying the box, I simply said that what I was about to do was so impossible that I wanted to make things as fair as possible. I mentioned the Randi challenge and explained that to meet the conditions of the Randi challenge the prediction needed to be in a sealed glass case. I then brought out the box and said "this was as close as Toys R Us could manage".

I further had the box isolated under a pint glass and the spectators hand was placed on top. Everyone agreed that this was completely fair. After getting the numbers I had one person hold onto the pad with the numbers, I had the other person lift the pint glass with one hand and the lid with the other (making it impossible for him to remove the contents himself).

The illusion of the ticket coming out of the box is perfect and all eyes were on the ticket, the box was basically invisible the moment that ticket came out of it. Everyone wanted a look at the ticket, not one person wanted to look at the box. The ticket being in full view before the numbers were selected definitely added to the effect.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Rus ANDREWS (Nov 28, 2014 03:47AM)
Applause for Mark

Mate that's a nice presentation.... great work

Best

R
Message: Posted by: mike donoghue (Nov 28, 2014 06:10AM)
Used this last night for the 1st. time & will be using it tonight.

Great reactions.

David has his table top card under box routine on the DVD.I have done my own card under, on, inside of box, deck under box & inside box for years, so it's very easy for me to adapt it to Mystery Solved. David's routine is great (but so is mine lol).

As said by other people(& I agree), examination of the box is not an issue. One small thing I noted is that the "folded" card in box is bigger than what a folded card is. However, as people(unless they have mental health issues)never ever fold cards into quarters & stick them behind watches, in their mouths or in plastic boxes this is never noticed.

Thank you Mr Penn for releasing this to the magic community it's brilliant.

Very pleased with this effect. Can't fault it.

100 % recommend it.

Great release David.

Mike Donoghue
Message: Posted by: TheAmazingSteveo (Nov 28, 2014 10:55PM)
I received this today. Watched the DVD and it was very informative and professionally produced. I have been using Mystery Box II for many years now and I really like this being out in plain site so people can see the card. Still processing the powerful reactions tonight doing walk around -- they were FANTASTIC!!!

Very nice job on this David.

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!!
Message: Posted by: dp (Nov 30, 2014 03:48PM)
[quote]On Nov 28, 2014, TheAmazingSteveo wrote:
I received this today. Watched the DVD and it was very informative and professionally produced. I have been using Mystery Box II for many years now and I really like this being out in plain site so people can see the card. Still processing the powerful reactions tonight doing walk around -- they were FANTASTIC!!!

Very nice job on this David.

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!! [/quote]

Thanks buddy

So glad you like it. :-)

I gotta say that I am completely overwhelmed by the amount of messages from people using Mystery Solved in innovative ways. With their permission I need to find a way of sharing them.

All the best

David
Message: Posted by: slydini62 (Nov 30, 2014 08:05PM)
Here's my presentation which makes sense:

Start showing the box "empty" and cover the box with a small cloth. Have the specatator select a card and sign it. Do the MF on the selected card. Have the spectator take the cloth off revealing a folded card inside the box. Take the lid off the "dump" the card out. This is my presentation. Makes total sense. Box empty. Spec holds box. Spec selects and signs card. Card appears in box WITH spec holding box. Card is their sign selected card! Enjoy! Thanks Mr. Penn for Mystery Solved!
Message: Posted by: rasmus (Dec 3, 2014 03:11PM)
For me, this mistery is definetly solved.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Dec 3, 2014 05:10PM)
Just received this and am quite happy with it.
Can't say that it is a significant improvement over Regal's Clarity Box (the small sticker on the back of Regal's never bothered me) but the smaller size definitely makes it easier to carry around, especially if not wearing a coat. Of course Southworth's box is even smaller but I do like the innocence of this one as it really does appear like it is completely clear. But Southworth's box looks a little more like an everyday object but MS has a classier look to and it's easier to customize your gimmick on MS.

For those that feel compelled to have it examined it would be a simple matter after you dump out the card to start to place the box back in your pocket but then "remember" the person is still holding the lid and immediately bring out the box and hand it to them and ask them to put the lid back on. This may require you to buy the trick twice but if you want it badly enough there is that option. Personally, I don't see any need.

I highly recommend the Penn box though, nicely made, great method, and a very good DVD too.
Message: Posted by: AaronishMagic (Dec 4, 2014 03:01AM)
I've been using mystery box for years. Can't wait to receive mine! Great work David! Congrats to the release.
Message: Posted by: dp (Dec 4, 2014 09:50AM)
Thanks guys

I'm sorry to keep boring you by saying this but thank you all so much for the great feedback. A special thank you to the guys that have also taken the time to review Mystery Solved.

Wayne Fox was at WMS today and I really wanted to share with you two of his tip out techniques. They look great on video but the retention on the first one in real life is crazy. We only uploaded it to the WMS Facebook page but this is the link to the video:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152454923501759

Thanks again guys

David
Message: Posted by: TheBentos (Dec 4, 2014 11:06AM)
I've been playing about with mine for a week now. I came up with very very similar handling to Wayne's - Now really confident to go out and perform it.
Over the years I have had over 6 card to box routines. Think this is finally the one!
looking forward to replacement boxes hopefully becoming available.
Message: Posted by: dp (Dec 4, 2014 01:21PM)
[quote]On Dec 4, 2014, TheBentos wrote:
I've been playing about with mine for a week now. I came up with very very similar handling to Wayne's - Now really confident to go out and perform it.
Over the years I have had over 6 card to box routines. Think this is finally the one!
looking forward to replacement boxes hopefully becoming available. [/quote]

Glad your enjoying it TheBentos

Please share with me any other moves or handlings you come up with.

I think I may even change to this new way of tipping out. Wayne is so slow and steady when he does it. I need to slow down a bit!

Cheers

David
Message: Posted by: fcchief1 (Dec 4, 2014 06:58PM)
Got mine today but opened the black box and it was empty!! I am sure that is the disappearing cube trick. Contact Penguin and see what happened. At least I have the dvd!!
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Dec 4, 2014 07:50PM)
I heard that this works very well with Jon Allen's new Perfect Score

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=572831&forum=218

:bg:
Message: Posted by: Daren (Dec 5, 2014 05:06AM)
I have changed the grip slightly when I do the move, I think it adds to the overall illusion at the end, I like Wayne's dump move, especially like the fact that the performer is holding onto the lid the spec then takes the card and the lid can be quickly and easily replaced without having to find out where the spectator has placed it, hope that makes sense!
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Dec 5, 2014 05:34AM)
[quote]On Dec 5, 2014, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:
I heard that this works very well with Jon Allen's new Perfect Score

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=572831&forum=218

:bg: [/quote]
Ooh, you little devil! ;)
Message: Posted by: dp (Dec 7, 2014 10:25AM)
Hi Guys

I hope you are well and getting ready for the festive season :-)

I have been having fun with a new way to perform the card to box with Mystery Solved and just shared a little video.

It's just an idea but it is working really well for me. I hope you like it. Work in progress....

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152460695316759&set=vb.135730316758&type=2&theater

Cheers, David
Message: Posted by: magicinsight (Dec 7, 2014 10:54AM)
[quote]On Dec 7, 2014, dp wrote:
Hi Guys

I hope you are well and getting ready for the festive season :-)

I have been having fun with a new way to perform the card to box with Mystery Solved and just shared a little video.

It's just an idea but it is working really well for me. I hope you like it. Work in progress....

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152460695316759&set=vb.135730316758&type=2&theater

Cheers, David [/quote]

David,

Terrific routine and great thinking. Thank you for sharing. Your Mystery Solved is wonderful. Highly recommended.

Michael
Message: Posted by: dp (Dec 7, 2014 11:06AM)
[quote]On Dec 7, 2014, magicinsight wrote:
[quote]On Dec 7, 2014, dp wrote:
Hi Guys

I hope you are well and getting ready for the festive season :-)

I have been having fun with a new way to perform the card to box with Mystery Solved and just shared a little video.

It's just an idea but it is working really well for me. I hope you like it. Work in progress....

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152460695316759&set=vb.135730316758&type=2&theater

Cheers, David [/quote]

David,

Terrific routine and great thinking. Thank you for sharing. Your Mystery Solved is wonderful. Highly recommended.

Michael [/quote]

Thanks Michael

Anything I come up with I will continue to share.

Glad you liked it buddy. Have a great christmas

David
Message: Posted by: TheAmazingSteveo (Dec 7, 2014 01:35PM)
After using Mystery Solved for a while now .. one thing I REALLY like about it is that there really is no reset ..
it is always ready to go. The illusion looks absolutely fantastic!
Message: Posted by: dp (Dec 7, 2014 03:21PM)
[quote]On Dec 7, 2014, TheAmazingSteveo wrote:
After using Mystery Solved for a while now .. one thing I REALLY like about it is that there really is no reset ..
it is always ready to go. The illusion looks absolutely fantastic! [/quote]

Thanks Steveo

I'm glad you like it buddy. I never really thought of the fact that you don't need to reset it but your right.

Glad you like the mini illusion.

Cheers

David
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Dec 7, 2014 03:26PM)
Mini illusion is right. It's a lovely thing you've created. Very pleasing indeed.
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (Dec 7, 2014 03:34PM)
I only have Wayne's one but this looks very good too :)

Might be interesting to compare both.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Dec 7, 2014 03:38PM)
That has been done. They work on entirely different principles, as you know, Alex.

Just in terms of the mechanics, one involves a surface, [i]and not just any surface[/i], whilst the other can be done standing up without even a spectator's hand.

Apples and oranges, my friend.
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (Dec 7, 2014 04:12PM)
[quote]On Dec 7, 2014, tomsk192 wrote:
That has been done. They work on entirely different principles, as you know, Alex.

Just in terms of the mechanics, one involves a surface, [i]and not just any surface[/i], whilst the other can be done standing up without even a spectator's hand.

Apples and oranges, my friend. [/quote]

Exactly ! Like the fact that with MS you can use it in a walkaround situation. Looks gorgeous anyway :)
Message: Posted by: TheAmazingSteveo (Dec 7, 2014 05:12PM)
I have Wayne's one too ... I like MS MUCH MUCH Better.
Message: Posted by: magicinsight (Dec 7, 2014 05:39PM)
[quote]On Dec 7, 2014, dp wrote:
[quote]On Dec 7, 2014, TheAmazingSteveo wrote:
After using Mystery Solved for a while now .. one thing I REALLY like about it is that there really is no reset ..
it is always ready to go. The illusion looks absolutely fantastic! [/quote]

Thanks Steveo

I'm glad you like it buddy. I never really thought of the fact that you don't need to reset it but your right.

Glad you like the mini illusion.

Cheers

David [/quote]

I was also thinking that this is a terrific mini illusion. I think David so carefully developed and manufactured Mystery Solved as a great mini illusion is due to David's vast experience with using grand illusions in his stage shows. He knows the mechanical and psychological reasons of what makes a good illusion and he applied those same techniques and ideas to Mystery Solved.
Message: Posted by: Vlad Grigorescu (Dec 8, 2014 04:48PM)
Just got it! Here is my short review:

It's exactly what you would think it is.
It is a genius utility device(not a gimmick, not a trick) that you can use for a lot of things. The standard card trick is not the best thing that you can do with it. The best use, I think, is for mentalism(predictions, switching, etc.) Think of it as a mini clear prediction box.
You can get a folded billet signed. You then put it inside the clear box and leave it on the table or even between the spectator's hands. Then you go through a "dream vacation"-like process or whatever. After that, you take the billet out of the box and BAM! It matches perfectly and you are a god! :)
In my opinion it is better then all other versions out there.
Brilliant Mr. Penn!
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Dec 8, 2014 05:13PM)
How many box's did you purchase 3 ?
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Dec 8, 2014 06:27PM)
[quote]On Dec 8, 2014, JackMagic wrote:
How many box's did you purchase 3 ? [/quote]
Good one! :lol:
Message: Posted by: Vlad Grigorescu (Dec 9, 2014 03:35PM)
I guess Mystery Solved is good, good, good. :)
Message: Posted by: Brian Proctor (Dec 9, 2014 05:55PM)
I picked this up on Saturday. It's quite impressive. I really like Davids idea of putting a card that says " your name" in the box before the routine, then as it comes out of the box, it's got their signed card. Very cool idea.
Message: Posted by: MarcusC (Dec 10, 2014 02:47PM)
I rarely carry that many items with me when I'm out as I'm more of a magic enthusiast than a proper magician, but I've got one of these displayed on a shelf as a conversation starter. Just imagine someone visiting your house asking what the box with the folded card is, and you being able to respond with a, "Oh, that? That is your card" and then go into a routine ending with this. A card they saw on the shelf the whole time, turning out to be a card they selected.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Dec 10, 2014 04:21PM)
[quote]On Dec 10, 2014, Marcus Christiansen wrote:
I rarely carry that many items with me when I'm out as I'm more of a magic enthusiast than a proper magician, but I've got one of these displayed on a shelf as a conversation starter. Just imagine someone visiting your house asking what the box with the folded card is, and you being able to respond with a, "Oh, that? That is your card" and then go into a routine ending with this. A card they saw on the shelf the whole time, turning out to be a card they selected. [/quote]
I like it ,very nice indeed.
Message: Posted by: TheAmazingSteveo (Dec 10, 2014 04:51PM)
My absolute BEST purchase of the year! This thing ROCKS!
Message: Posted by: videoman (Dec 10, 2014 05:04PM)
[quote]On Dec 10, 2014, Marcus Christiansen wrote:
I rarely carry that many items with me when I'm out as I'm more of a magic enthusiast than a proper magician, but I've got one of these displayed on a shelf as a conversation starter. Just imagine someone visiting your house asking what the box with the folded card is, and you being able to respond with a, "Oh, that? That is your card" and then go into a routine ending with this. A card they saw on the shelf the whole time, turning out to be a card they selected. [/quote]

Nice idea Marcus, I think I will start leaving mine out on display also.
Thanks!!!
Message: Posted by: MarcusC (Dec 11, 2014 05:29PM)
My pleasure, videoman! :)
Message: Posted by: robvh (Dec 11, 2014 05:47PM)
[quote]On Dec 9, 2014, Brian Proctor wrote:
I picked this up on Saturday. It's quite impressive. I really like Davids idea of putting a card that says " your name" in the box before the routine, then as it comes out of the box, it's got their signed card. Very cool idea. [/quote]

I agree. Anyone curious can watch the end of the latest World Magic Shop review show where David performs it at the very end. I would likely modify that routine just slightly by having the "named spectator" open the card only toward themselves at the end. That way you get an extra laugh out of the routine. The observers will laugh when the spectator is apparently let in on the joke. Then the spectator turns the card around for the surprise reveal. By briefly separating the moments you gain the benefit of a distinct climax instead of what could be a bit of a muddle (albeit still a very entertaining one).

More clever thinking by David Penn. This item is turning out to be a real hit.
Message: Posted by: DigaMag (Dec 27, 2014 10:40PM)
This is really really good... I just got this and I'm really happy with it.... the dvd is also very well... but personally the routine that david penn teached in the dvd it doesn't suit my style...so can someone help me... is there any other card routine that fits really well with the mystery solved... ? Of course beside Ambitious card routine... I need some advice...

Thanks in advance my friends...

Diga
Message: Posted by: mike donoghue (Dec 28, 2014 07:53AM)
Hi DigaMag,

i would just do what ever card routine you currenly use & as a fantastic ending to it show that it's been in the box from the start.

Mike Donoghue
Message: Posted by: C.J.Magic (Jan 6, 2015 02:50AM)
I've used the Kennedy Mystery Boxes ( card, money and prediction ), made a ring box after the Tommy Wonder video came out and used other contraptions that were released over the years. Most worked fine. Some didn't live up to expectations.

David Penn's Mystery Solved is the finest I've used. It's also the most versatile. You can easily swap out cards ( any back design ) notes and written predictions. The retention of vision makes it appear as if nothing happened other than dumping out the isolated item. Their radar never goes up!

If your using signed playing cards, may I suggest the card in the box having a different back design than the deck? It keeps them from getting ahead.

The applications for mental effects is what I most use it for. Peter Turner's contribution on the dvd was what you'd expect from him.

Mystery Solved is like using a T.T. or a Coin S*. It's right there under their noses, hidden in plain sight. Man, oh, man, is it fun to do.

C.J.
Message: Posted by: jefferson8888 (Jan 6, 2015 11:49PM)
The only tiny problem with mystery solved is the size of the box and the size of the folded card, I wish David Penn shrunk it to the same size as when you m****** !@#$ the card.
Message: Posted by: ChrisCook (Jan 7, 2015 12:28PM)
That really doesn't matter. It's a discrepancy that no one would notice and the box would be way too small if you did that.
Message: Posted by: ChrisCook (Jan 7, 2015 12:29PM)
Also I think Mystery Solved's greatest assets lie in it's mentalism possibilities.
Message: Posted by: jefferson8888 (Jan 7, 2015 10:58PM)
[quote]On Jan 7, 2015, ChrisCook wrote:
That really doesn't matter. It's a discrepancy that no one would notice and the box would be way too small if you did that. [/quote]

Yeah I know it doesn't matter much but I think this would be perfect if the card is same as the gimmick.
Message: Posted by: C.J.Magic (Jan 8, 2015 08:34PM)
[quote]On Jan 7, 2015, ChrisCook wrote:
Also I think Mystery Solved's greatest assets lie in it's mentalism possibilities. [/quote]

I think there will be some heavy hitters using it just for that.
Message: Posted by: rowland (Jan 9, 2015 08:56AM)
[quote]On Jan 7, 2015, jefferson8888 wrote:
[quote]On Jan 7, 2015, ChrisCook wrote:
That really doesn't matter. It's a discrepancy that no one would notice and the box would be way too small if you did that. [/quote]

Yeah I know it doesn't matter much but I think this would be perfect if the card is same as the gimmick. [/quote]

Are you saying that the card in the box is bigger than an actual playing card or that you would like the box to be smaller. I haven't actually seen it yet, I assumed you could just fold a card up and put it in there but maybe not.
Message: Posted by: Michael Daniels (Jan 9, 2015 09:28AM)
[quote]On Jan 9, 2015, rowland wrote:
I assumed you could just fold a card up and put it in there but maybe not. [/quote]

That's not the recommended method.

Mike
Message: Posted by: C.J.Magic (Jan 14, 2015 09:24PM)
Has anyone else tried Mystery Solved with them holding the box? It might be more applicable to those that perform in walk around situations, but I think it's the best way to use this because of the psychological seed that you plant. If there was anything 'tricky" about the box, you wouldn't let them hold it. Just try it once and I think you'll go that way.

It's also small enough that it can easily be carried in a pants pocket for those that don't wear a jacket.
Message: Posted by: dannywu (Jan 14, 2015 11:20PM)
Got it today, amazing mentalism possibilities, great product, highly recommended.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Jan 15, 2015 12:02AM)
[quote]On Dec 8, 2014, Vlad Grigorescu wrote:
Just got it! Here is my short review:

It's exactly what you would think it is.
It is a genius utility device(not a gimmick, not a trick) that you can use for a lot of things. The standard card trick is not the best thing that you can do with it. The best use, I think, is for mentalism(predictions, switching, etc.) Think of it as a mini clear prediction box.
You can get a folded billet signed. You then put it inside the clear box and leave it on the table or even between the spectator's hands. Then you go through a "dream vacation"-like process or whatever. After that, you take the billet out of the box and BAM! It matches perfectly and you are a god! :)
In my opinion it is better then all other versions out there.
Brilliant Mr. Penn! [/quote]

Confabulation - does the DVD mention that as a possibility?
Message: Posted by: sychou (Jan 18, 2015 10:59PM)
Is the Box examinable by spectator?thanks
Message: Posted by: Michael Daniels (Jan 19, 2015 01:14AM)
[quote]On Jan 18, 2015, sychou wrote:
Is the Box examinable by spectator?thanks [/quote]

No
Message: Posted by: 1KJ (Feb 7, 2015 10:01PM)
I recently received this product and now I have to ... eat crow.

I had been negative about it, but after receiving it, and seeing the amount of detail that went into making it just the perfect prop for card to see-through box effect, I am a convert.

I now think this is the best prop of it's kind. I have two other similar props, one larger and one smaller. I'm not commenting on the others, but having worked with all three, I'll just say that this one is the perfect size, works great, the method is simple but designed flawlessly, and I really like it.

KJ
Message: Posted by: fsharp (Feb 10, 2015 12:07AM)
Have you ever had the box examined? Any issues?
Message: Posted by: simplymagicweb (Feb 10, 2015 12:27AM)
This is a fab product. All the focus is on the folded card at the end and absolutely no heat at all on the box which just goes in your pocket.

The reactions are amazing.

Simple handling, great effect - what more do you want?

Sometimes we as magicians over complicate things. The examination of the box just doesn't come into play in real performance situations. It's just a clear box!!! Great product.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Feb 11, 2015 02:18AM)
I found that some people *do* want to look at a clear box.

While they may not be looking for a duplicate card in a clear box, they are looking for the secret to how their card got in. An opening, a flap, a.... something to explain it. I place my box on their hand or the table at the end and there is usually someone who picks it up to have a quick look. Of course, this means they are convinced the card was in there which is great...but having a box examinable is most certainly an advantage.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Feb 11, 2015 03:43AM)
Tommy Wonder must have had it wrong all those years. His box was not examinable.
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Feb 11, 2015 04:03AM)
I have used my Mystery solved countless times and my handling allows me to place it on the table if there is nobody behind me. As yet not one person has been interested in the box after the lottery ticket has come out of the box. Personally I only use the box for predictions and so there is no reason for them to suspect the box is anything other than a container to store the prediction.

Mark
Message: Posted by: bobgill (Feb 11, 2015 04:48AM)
I totally agree with both tomsk192 & Mark_Chandaue:
- Tommy Wonder's Ambitious Card routine culminating in the card folded in the box is the benchmark presentation of this modern classic, and it works because the opaque box's contents surprise the spectators
- the clear box, whichever you choose to go for, is perfect for a billet switch in a prediction effect.

With a little lateral thinking, you can apply to other models the Mystery Solved approach of starting with an empty box and placing the folded item in it in full view, but Mystery solved makes it easiest to do so. It is also, I've come to discover, the best model if you are strolling or repeating the effect many times in a session, because it's reset is a nanosecond.

And Jon Allen is, as he is so often, bang-on: when you leave a prop on the table a spectator will often pick it up, more out of idle curiosity than an attempt to challenge you. The fact that they can do so is a small advantage - but it's not a deal-breaker for me.

To repeat: if you have staged your presentation properly, they are focused 100% on the folded card as you pick up the box. (In fact, Tommy W simply glances at it and the spectators follow his gaze, hence discovering the impending climax for themselves. Delicious moment) Especially as it is back outwards. So if that is the point at which you ditch the box, there should be no attention on you doing so - they are waiting for you to break the tension by revealing what they now suspect [but are muttering 'No way'] - that somehow that card is the one they signed in its unfolded glory earlier on.

If spectators are giving you discomfort at that point you are either getting the blocking of your presentation wrong [and failing to build the tension and anticipation] or (more likely) you're just overly sensitive.

Best
Bob
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Feb 11, 2015 05:52AM)
The is the position I place the box on the table. I have put it on an envelope here for effect. It isn't left there for long I simply pick it up and pocket it whilst their attention is focused on the ticket.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Raj Suman (Feb 11, 2015 02:21PM)
I hear of a new mystery solve with jonathan royal. examine box before and after, it is clearvolution for ten pound now. maybe its good?
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Feb 11, 2015 04:49PM)
You decide: http://youtu.be/8S_d_OFcT4U
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Feb 11, 2015 04:55PM)
Oh my sainted aunt. Ten quid? Ahahahahaha.
Message: Posted by: Rudy Sanchez (Feb 11, 2015 06:02PM)
Here is Dan White using 'Mystery Solved' and nobody questions him about the box....all done on live t.v. New Years Eve.
[youtube]31qHX9Trnjo[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Feb 11, 2015 06:07PM)
[quote]On Feb 11, 2015, Jon Allen wrote:
You decide: http://youtu.be/8S_d_OFcT4U [/quote]
I'm not impressed by this video and in the real world I can't do the ditch out of frame.

Mark
Message: Posted by: fsharp (Feb 12, 2015 07:42AM)
The handling of clear-volution is definitely not as clean as Mystery Solved but it is a simple and interesting method.
Message: Posted by: Raj Suman (Feb 12, 2015 07:51AM)
[quote]On Feb 11, 2015, Jon Allen wrote:
You decide: http://youtu.be/8S_d_OFcT4U [/quote]
lets see your one then jon you keep saying about it but nothing for anyoneto see yet.
Message: Posted by: Robmonster (Feb 12, 2015 08:52AM)
[quote]On Feb 11, 2015, Jon Allen wrote:
You decide: http://youtu.be/8S_d_OFcT4U [/quote] O. M. G.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Feb 12, 2015 12:00PM)
[quote]On Feb 11, 2015, Jon Allen wrote:
You decide: http://youtu.be/8S_d_OFcT4U [/quote]

Wow this would go down well at any tupper ware party,not laughed so much,lol.
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Feb 12, 2015 12:50PM)
Have done years ago some tupper ware parties, they were well paid, they needed desperately some entertainment beyond expert talks about plastic bowls... even then I wouldn't have had the b...s to perform http://youtu.be/8S_d_OFcT4U ... :) Jan
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Feb 12, 2015 12:54PM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Raj Suman wrote:
[quote]On Feb 11, 2015, Jon Allen wrote:
You decide: http://youtu.be/8S_d_OFcT4U [/quote]
lets see your one then jon you keep saying about it but nothing for anyoneto see yet. [/quote]

Raj, is your other name Jonathan, by any chance?
Message: Posted by: Raj Suman (Feb 12, 2015 01:13PM)
No I m not. John allen keep saying he has perfect solution but don't show it.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Feb 12, 2015 01:19PM)
He's releasing it at Blackpool, the big tease.
Message: Posted by: Raj Suman (Feb 12, 2015 01:57PM)
Ok now I understand it. thankyou
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Feb 12, 2015 02:32PM)
I have a large Tupper Ware box and I can switch a whole chicken out onto my hand ,it will be showing at BlackPool,limited addition only 100, once they are gone, they are gone.
Message: Posted by: Raj Suman (Feb 12, 2015 02:39PM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Fire Starter wrote:
I have a large Tupper Ware box and I can switch a whole chicken out onto my hand ,it will be showing at BlackPool,limited addition only 100, once they are gone, they are gone. [/quote]
you are jumping on the see through box bandwagon with john allan. yours sounds better
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Feb 12, 2015 03:02PM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Raj Suman wrote:
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Fire Starter wrote:
I have a large Tupper Ware box and I can switch a whole chicken out onto my hand ,it will be showing at BlackPool,limited addition only 100, once they are gone, they are gone. [/quote]
you are jumping on the see through box bandwagon with john allan. yours sounds better [/quote]
Why thankyou very much Raj ,yes mine one is bigger and a lot better and comes with a 250 page PDF on fantastic routines and different ways to use it.
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Feb 12, 2015 03:03PM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Fire Starter wrote:
I have a large Tupper Ware box and I can switch a whole chicken out onto my hand ,it will be showing at BlackPool,limited addition only 100, once they are gone, they are gone. [/quote]
Be careful, 100 chicken can go fast!
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Feb 12, 2015 03:15PM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, JanForster wrote:
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Fire Starter wrote:
I have a large Tupper Ware box and I can switch a whole chicken out onto my hand ,it will be showing at BlackPool,limited addition only 100, once they are gone, they are gone. [/quote]
Be careful, 100 chicken can go fast! [/quote]
Jan you are quite right they can go fast so their legs will be tied up with zip ties ,i did think about frozen chicken's but, HEY that would just spoil the fun.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Feb 12, 2015 03:22PM)
What if their signed card was inside a tupper ware box, inside another tupper ware box,inside another tupper ware box,inside another tupper ware box ,well next year my new and improved version TUPPER WARE BOX 2.0 will be released this has taken me many years in the making and a lot of tupper ware parties to get this just right, Derren Brown has pre ordered one straight away,so what can I say.
Message: Posted by: Waterloophai (Feb 12, 2015 03:46PM)
[quote]On Feb 11, 2015, tomsk192 wrote:
Tommy Wonder must have had it wrong all those years. His box was not examinable. [/quote]
Tommy Wonder was far from wrong.
I have a box that was made by Tommy Wonder him self. I don't use it because it is too precious and too affectionate for the memories that I have of him.
I use the Kennedy box in wood.
Using a clear box for the revelation of a card is two steps backwards. The surprise is completely gone.
It often happens in the magic world: "improvements" that make the effect much worse .

However, using a clear box for a prediction is ideal and a step forwards.

Conclusion: know for WHAT effect you use it.
Message: Posted by: dp (Feb 25, 2015 03:08AM)
[quote]On Feb 11, 2015, Mark_Chandaue wrote:
The is the position I place the box on the table. I have put it on an envelope here for effect. It isn't left there for long I simply pick it up and pocket it whilst their attention is focused on the ticket.

Mark [/quote]

It was such a pleasure to meet up with Mark at Blackpool so he could share with me the following handling. Combined with Wayne Fox's tip out (into their hands) it looks great.

Thanks once again to Wayne and Mark.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152633244066759&set=vb.135730316758&type=2&theater

Cheers

David
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Feb 25, 2015 03:24AM)
Nice.

Straight into the spectators hand.

Your hands are as clean as a whistle.
Message: Posted by: rowland (Feb 25, 2015 03:31AM)
[quote]On Feb 25, 2015, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Nice.

Straight into the spectators hand.

Your hands are as clean as a whistle. [/quote]
But the box isn't 😉
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Feb 25, 2015 03:41AM)
Mystery Solved = clean hands, dirty box.

Paragon = clean box, dirty hands.

The Holy Grail hasn't been found.

Although I did see a guy in the Theatre Bar at Blackpool with his own version of card to clear box which ended with a clean box and hands. Very fooling.
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Feb 25, 2015 03:49AM)
So are we saying that the essential difference between David & Jon is personal hygiene?
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (Feb 25, 2015 05:08AM)
If only one box could do both.. ;)
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Feb 25, 2015 05:30AM)
The one I saw in the bar at Blackpool did. It relied on a very clever optical illusion, the likes of which I haven't seen before. Box and hands could both be examined afterwards. Can't remember the name of the guy but he was selling them 'unofficially'.
Message: Posted by: rowland (Feb 25, 2015 07:20AM)
They are both great boxes, and everyone will have their preference. Mine is for paragon, I don't think I have ever seen so many magicians fooled at Blackpool. It's not perfect but it gets pretty close. Yes you are dirty at the end but the move looks so convincing that everyone couldn't wait to see the moment the card was opened and handed out. There was genuine disbelief that it could possibly br their signed card. To be honest if you can't clean up at that point you may as well give up magic completely. It literally takes a second to do the clean up while the card is being handed out and then everything is examinable. I do two different 3fly routines one with a gaff and one with normal coins in both you are dirty at some points in the routine but at the end nobody asks to see my hands they are interested in the coins, my feeling is that it will be the same with the box.
Message: Posted by: simon hughes (Feb 25, 2015 08:47AM)
I thought mystery solved had been discontinued because of paragon?
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Feb 25, 2015 09:00AM)
I thought everyone who bought Mystery Solved was now being given access to password protected videos showing the Paragon method.
Message: Posted by: Robmonster (Feb 25, 2015 09:02AM)
No, that's Three sixty you are thinking of. They use the same physical box.

Simon, if you are being snarky here can we please try not to make judgement calls on people based on which box they choose to tip cards out of?
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Feb 25, 2015 09:05AM)
Has David pulled Mystery Solved then?
Message: Posted by: Robmonster (Feb 25, 2015 09:10AM)
Why would he?
Message: Posted by: tomsk192 (Feb 25, 2015 09:51AM)
As rowland points out, they both look great, and have contrasting issues. The fact that [i]Paragon[/i] looks great makes no difference to the craftiness of [i]Mystery Solved[/i], which is also a very convincing illusion.
Message: Posted by: bungomungo (Feb 25, 2015 09:53AM)
Paragon looks a lot better. And Mr Allen seems to have a much nicer personality. He'll get my money.
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Feb 25, 2015 11:11AM)
[quote]On Feb 25, 2015, bungomungo wrote:
Paragon looks a lot better. And Mr Allen seems to have a much nicer personality. He'll get my money. [/quote]

Paragon looks better because you've only seen the 10 second demo where he tips the card out. This is a magician fooler- for an ordinary layperson, they want to know if that card that has been in full view the whole time is their card. The box is only the vessel for holding what has been in front of them the whole time.

I also doubt that the whole Paragon routine and setup for the signed card will be as practical as the other clear card to boxes.

pass on this one
Message: Posted by: Robmonster (Feb 25, 2015 11:17AM)
With respect, in the case of a card from box routine you don't need to see anything other than the card coming from the box. The routine that precedes it is irrelevant.

I own mystery solved, it was a great deal at Blackpool. I will also be getting Paragon when funds allow.
Message: Posted by: Jared (Feb 25, 2015 01:17PM)
Mystery Solved and Paragon are both welcomed entries in the Card to Box plot. I plan to use Paragon for folded playing cards mainly because the angles are excellent, and I like that the folded card (in the box) is identical in size to the actual card that ends up in the palm of my hand. Mystery Solved however is my preferred device for predictions and related mentalism applications. This will fit my needs perfectly for a small parlor show effect. The illusion looks terrific on top of an inverted wine glass after the 'dump'. To each his own but I doubt that anybody will be disappointed with either box...They are both excellent utility devices.
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Feb 25, 2015 01:47PM)
As a mentalist I would rather have clean hands than a clean box. In my experience there is absolutely no heat on the box at all. I place it down on the table as in the video and not one single person has ever paid it even the slightest bit of attention. The video for Paragon looks superb but from a mentalism standpoint it is essentially a step backwards for me personally. If I want dirty hands I can simply do a billet switch.

When it comes to mentalism the compromise isn't whether the box can be examined the compromise is that you have a box at all. Mystery solved allows me to perform a very clean billet switch ending with completely empty hands. The trade off is that I have to justify the box. With Paragon I still have the trade off that I have to justify the box but now my hands are just as dirty as if I did a simple billet switch. There is zero heat on the box so I really don't care if it can be examined or not. After a billet switch I would rather have a dirty box that nobody cares about than dirty hands.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Feb 25, 2015 05:21PM)
Wayne's original 3sixty allowed for clean hands AND box.

New isn't always better.
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Feb 25, 2015 07:44PM)
The problem with Wayne's box is that I don't use a close up pad. With MS I can place the box down on any colour table. Of all the clear box's MS suits me best, other box's may suit other performers.

Mark
Message: Posted by: Jamie Ferguson (Feb 26, 2015 03:21AM)
Don't need a close up pad if you are creative with the gimmick.
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Feb 26, 2015 12:11PM)
With MS I can do it walk around with or without a table, I don't have to worry about being creative with any gimmicks and my hands are clean. That's what I need from a switching box. None of the others meet my needs as well as MS. Other performers may have different needs that are better met by other box's.

Mark
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Feb 26, 2015 12:19PM)
[quote]On Feb 26, 2015, Jamie Ferguson wrote:
Don't need a close up pad if you are creative with the gimmick. [/quote]
Put it on a (Para) pad, a wallet... Jan
Message: Posted by: Mysteryos (Feb 26, 2015 08:53PM)
It just has arrived yesterday, awesome product. Seems to fit very well in my PW Routine! Thanks, David!
Message: Posted by: magic in mind (Mar 1, 2015 08:03PM)
Having had the clarity box.I am looking for something smaller.I was going for mystery solved.Then the paragon arrived with 3sixty.My initial thoughts can you buy a similar box for mystery solved.So maybe put box into pocket. But leave lid on table.Switch for clean box, where you later put lid on..Maybe leave on table?
Message: Posted by: simplymagicweb (Mar 2, 2015 06:15AM)
Hi Magic in Mind. There really is no need to switch boxes at the end as all the focus is on the card. Just put the box away, end of! Sometimes we as magicians over complicate things!

Jons handling for Paragon is fab, but does need a clean up afterwards. But the box is examinable. Mystery solved is a simple clean up - just put the box away! You decide what's best for you my friend. Which one fits in with your performance style, skill set etc.
Message: Posted by: magic in mind (Mar 2, 2015 11:14AM)
Thank you.I will go for mystery solved.I really like the look of its illusion.Did hear that paragon needed a perfect m..c..y
fold but mystery was more forgiving.Hope alakazam come up with an extractor that would do one for you.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Mar 2, 2015 11:33AM)
Paragon does not need a perfect MCF.
Message: Posted by: simplymagicweb (Mar 2, 2015 11:33AM)
Get Jons Perfect Score as this makes doing the MCF a breeze😄
Message: Posted by: MagicDamo (Mar 2, 2015 05:32PM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2015, magic in mind wrote:
Thank you.I will go for mystery solved.I really like the look of its illusion.Did hear that paragon needed a perfect m..c..y
fold but mystery was more forgiving.Hope alakazam come up with an extractor that would do one for you[quote]

There are other advantages of Paragon that you may want to consider. The Paragon box looks better quality than MS. The shape and size of the card in the box is the same shape and size of the card that ends up in your hand. The box is completely angle proof, if there is any heat on the box then the box can casually be left on the table afterwards. I place the empty box back on the spectators hand whilst I unfold the card then I hand the card out and take the box back. The clean up afterwards takes a split second and is easy.
Message: Posted by: magic in mind (Mar 9, 2015 07:38PM)
Thanks I see a few uk dealers Saturn magic and propdog are selling the three sixty with paragon.Can you customise the gimmiks like you can with mystery? Cheers
Message: Posted by: rowland (Mar 10, 2015 12:45AM)
[quote]On Mar 9, 2015, magic in mind wrote:
Thanks I see a few uk dealers Saturn magic and propdog are selling the three sixty with paragon.Can you customise the gimmiks like you can with mystery? Cheers [/quote]

Yes you can very easily 😀
Message: Posted by: mike donoghue (Mar 10, 2015 01:32AM)
So many comments which seem really silly. If someone was to read over the 1st few pages of this & do the same with paragon , everything is revealed . I suggest that people take the plunge and buy one of these(I have both) . Then work it extensively. It makes no difference if card in box is the same size as mercury folded card. It makes no difference if the box is handed out. Used mystery box at least 500 times & it's perfect. Used paragon about 100 times and it's perfect. Mike donoghue
Message: Posted by: rowland (Mar 10, 2015 02:30AM)
[quote]On Mar 10, 2015, mike donoghue wrote:
So many comments which seem really silly. If someone was to read over the 1st few pages of this & do the same with paragon , everything is revealed . I suggest that people take the plunge and buy one of these(I have both) . Then work it extensively. It makes no difference if card in box is the same size as mercury folded card. It makes no difference if the box is handed out. Used mystery box at least 500 times & it's perfect. Used paragon about 100 times and it's perfect. Mike donoghue [/quote]

Sorry I don't agree, if you were using something like the lightening box or john kennedys box where they only get to see the card for a split second before it is tipped out then it probably won't matter if the card is folded differently. But we are talking of a clear pespex box which in some of the routines is placed on the spectators hand. This is an object they have never seen before, they are going to be interested in it. They and other spectators are going to have a good look at it and if the card inside looks nothing like the card that comes out there is a good chance that someone will notice, but most spectators won't say anything to you but they will talk when you have gone. I think sometimes magicians do spectators a disservice, they are not as stupid as some magicians think.
I do agree though that both boxes are great.
Message: Posted by: mike donoghue (Mar 10, 2015 02:40AM)
I agree that spectators are not as stupid as some magicians think. However. If someone thinks they know how something is done( happend in the past) they find you & tell you or they tell you immediately . Yes they are 99.99 percent wrong but that's what I have found. The point I am trying to make is both boxes are good. It is no good theorising. Buy one of them and then use it a heck of a lot . After using it a lot in an entertaining routine, all questions will be ansered and that person will know if it's for them ie. if it fits the bill. I am trying to be helpfull to anyone who is serious about parting with their cash to actually buy it and use it. Mike donoghue
Message: Posted by: magic in mind (Mar 10, 2015 09:28PM)
Ahem if that was ment for me, re people silly comments I have had clarity box.But was too bigI have read this entire topic.Was sold on mystery but paragon came out.So as its fairly new.I have not much info on it.As uk dealers are selling 3sixty with paragon.Cheaper than mystery. I wanted another perspective.Sorry if I ask stupid questions.I bought 3sixty and paragon today from saturn magic.So I'm done.Cheers everyone else for your help.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Jun 5, 2016 12:32AM)
Reviving an old thread here. I just got my hands on Mystery Solved and I have to say, I love it. Performed it twice so far and no one had a clue. Once that card is out of the box, there is zero heat on it. Out of all of these clear box illusions, I feel like this one suits me the best. Easy to carry. Very deceptive and very practical. Nice one, Dave!
Message: Posted by: Karl M (Jun 5, 2016 03:39AM)
Did you try jon Allans one? Is it better than it?
Message: Posted by: Tally_NSA (Jun 5, 2016 04:05AM)
[quote]On Jun 5, 2016, Karl M wrote:
Did you try jon Allans one? Is it better than it? [/quote]

Jon's one is called Paragon 3D. I personally prefer it to Mystery Solved (which I also own), because Paragon does not have angle problems. But there isn't much between the 2 products. It is just a matter of personal preference, and what makes you feel most comfortable.
Message: Posted by: Cameron Francis (Jun 5, 2016 08:23AM)
Don't own Paragon but I know of it and, for me, I prefer Mystery Solved. The angle issues are insignificant and I like the fact that the card can be immediately handed out. The box shouldn't be the focus so whether it's examinable or not is irrelevant to me.
Message: Posted by: jackaboy (Jun 5, 2016 09:14AM)
I too believe Mystery Solved is better
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Jun 5, 2016 12:25PM)
[quote]On Jun 5, 2016, Cameron Francis wrote:
Don't own Paragon but I know of it and, for me, I prefer Mystery Solved. The angle issues are insignificant and I like the fact that the card can be immediately handed out. The box shouldn't be the focus so whether it's examinable or not is irrelevant to me. [/quote]


Hi Cameron,

The angles aren't insignificant when you ask someone to hold onto the box; or if you want to place it on an upturned wineglass or bottle in the middle of a table, or even just in the middle of a table. Also, when the box is on their hand, people will take a look at the box. If they want to with mine, they are more than welcome. None of these issues are a problem.

I also hand out the card immediately after the reveal and I know full well your technical ability and magical nous is way, way, way above the basic level required to clean up with Paragon 3D. If you do a bill s***** using a you-know-what you are more than equipped to clean up and it's also easier. After all, with Paragon 3D yard getting rid of some hinging they don't know exists at a moment they don't care.

Cheers,
Jon
Message: Posted by: MitchC (Sep 23, 2017 06:34PM)
Ok, sorry to dig this up, but what are the thoughts on this now vs, say the Vision Box ?
Message: Posted by: videoman (Sep 23, 2017 10:12PM)
Much prefer Vision Box.
If you compare Vision Box to Clarity Box to Jon Allen's box to Mystery Solved. MS isn't bad but it will likely be your least favorite.