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Topic: Sealed by Menny Lindenfeld
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 3, 2014 07:07PM)
Http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/4899

This looks amazing and super clean... especially when performed on the spectators hand.

Anyone have any insight on this effect?

They are selling refills for this, but it doesn't say how many uses you get with this out of the box.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 3, 2014 07:13PM)
Gosh that looks lovely - I could imagine Copperfield doing this for sure. Beautiful.

Great job Menny -

I was a little sad that Menny and his pals missed MindVention this year - "next year in Las Vegas!"
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 3, 2014 07:13PM)
I said Copperfield - duh, I meant Blaine.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 3, 2014 07:16PM)
This is the refill pack... Hmmmm http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/4900
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 3, 2014 07:21PM)
Yeah, if you get 400 uses in the refill, I'd imagine you get a decent amount with the DVD.
Message: Posted by: VMagical (Nov 3, 2014 07:36PM)
Wow! What did I just see!
Message: Posted by: Grasshop34 (Nov 3, 2014 07:59PM)
This looks really great. I sure hope it's practical. Menny has been releasing strong products, so I trust him.
Message: Posted by: Magicmike221 (Nov 3, 2014 08:28PM)
Top notch ...visual icandy at its very best, really hoping its practical with a reasonably quick reset.
Message: Posted by: Magic.Maddy (Nov 3, 2014 08:57PM)
I WANT THIS NOW!

I love the penetration from a spectators hand. Genius
Message: Posted by: MagicallyMe (Nov 3, 2014 11:25PM)
Somebody, please post a review when you get it. I'm anxious to hear what you think.
Message: Posted by: FrankieF (Nov 4, 2014 01:37AM)
I think it looks cool, and I'm not one to hate on effects before they come out but its like a millisecond of a trick and its cool but its one trick that lasts one second I think $35 Is a bit steep for that
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Nov 4, 2014 05:35AM)
Looks nice and promising.

I will await a review.

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: papawemba (Nov 4, 2014 06:33AM)
Crazy !!!!!
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Nov 4, 2014 07:09AM)
[quote]On Nov 4, 2014, FrankieF wrote:
I think it looks cool, and I'm not one to hate on effects before they come out but its like a millisecond of a trick and its cool but its one trick that lasts one second I think $35 Is a bit steep for that [/quote]

But you're not paying for that one second, you're paying for the knowledge to make that one second possible.
Message: Posted by: papawemba (Nov 4, 2014 07:55AM)
And countless hours the spec will remember that trick ;-)
Hope it is practical.
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Nov 4, 2014 08:50AM)
A really good one second trick beats a mediocre ten minute routine every time.
Message: Posted by: JoelDickinson (Nov 4, 2014 09:13AM)
Quick. Visual and impossible. really nice.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 4, 2014 09:26AM)
[quote]On Nov 4, 2014, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:
A really good one second trick beats a mediocre ten minute routine every time. [/quote]

I agree. This looks very mice and totally impossible.

The fact that the object appears to transfer from the spectator's hand to the inside of the cellophane wrapper instantly really sells it.

I'm curious how many gimmicks come with the effect, and also how long reset might be...
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 4, 2014 09:32AM)
... and lets not forget the cellophane is fully examinable.

I hope that's not stretching the language (e.g. after a sw***h) because that just seems impossible...
Message: Posted by: seanksutton (Nov 4, 2014 09:40AM)
Wow! This effect looks great! I, like everybody else, hope this is practical!
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Nov 4, 2014 12:01PM)
I want it too!! but...i need to control myself not to order until the first review comes out...has anyone seen it in person?
Message: Posted by: Kevin Schaller (Nov 4, 2014 12:19PM)
Menny is a genius. This is a game changer.

Kevin
Message: Posted by: magicmalk (Nov 4, 2014 12:41PM)
Don't quite believe what I just watched on the video. That is spectacular.
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Nov 4, 2014 01:06PM)
Pre-ordered. I really liked Menny's Penguin lecture so am interested to see this in action.

The guy's tops.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Nov 4, 2014 01:08PM)
A lot of magic happens in one second, color changes, vanishes, appearances, penetrations, transpositions etc. Not all magic has be a long and drawn out routine to be great magic. Also depends on how many uses you can get out of one gimmick. But for the working pro $35 is a small price to pay for such a highly visual trick. Also depends on the set up and how long it takes to get ready and many other factors so I won't know for sure if it is "worth it" until I get it and see if I can use it a lot.
Message: Posted by: TheMag1cian (Nov 4, 2014 01:15PM)
I think I know what's going on here. I'll keep it to myself. If it is what I think it is this is going to be epic.

I will await review as well.
Message: Posted by: Mark8infiniti (Nov 4, 2014 01:22PM)
Looks epic. But Menny's previous effects like the paperclip were atrocities. I'll wait for reviews for a change.
Message: Posted by: Mark8infiniti (Nov 4, 2014 01:22PM)
Looks epic. But Menny's previous effects like the paperclip were atrocities. I'll wait for reviews for a change.
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Nov 4, 2014 02:26PM)
If everyone "waited for reviews" we would never know. :lol:
Message: Posted by: RickVancouver (Nov 4, 2014 03:42PM)
The effect looks pretty amazing, but I wouldn't receommend putting the box on the table afterwards, like he did in the video.
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Nov 4, 2014 03:47PM)
I must be the only one that does not really like this.
Message: Posted by: dooblehorn (Nov 4, 2014 03:49PM)
Wow, that looks fantastic!
Message: Posted by: SittinDuK (Nov 4, 2014 03:52PM)
I think I'd like it, but only if you can take cards out of the box before doing it and I don't know if you can. 'Use your own favorite deck brand' makes me feel like you probably can't.
Message: Posted by: JollyGreenGiant (Nov 4, 2014 04:26PM)
Loving the visual look at this! Hope it's a worker. Sounds like people are smartening up a bit with pre-sales, although you got to love Penguin's email about it today with the warning/heads-up that: "This trick will sell out before its release date, so please reserve yours today. The second batch won't arrive until late November." I've got plenty of good magic already, so I can hold-off until it's released as usual, no reason not to wait to hear some real world feedback. I'm sure I'll survive without it for a bit if it is indeed good. Fingers crossed - I can already think of some cool ideas for it.
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Nov 4, 2014 06:31PM)
Reignofsound, what don't you like about this? I am just curious.
Message: Posted by: magicattorney (Nov 4, 2014 08:05PM)
I ordered mine today. Said it was not available until the 10th on the web page but it has already shipped. Hope to get it by Wednesday.
I was looking for reviews but it looks so good. We'll see.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 4, 2014 09:15PM)
[quote]On Nov 4, 2014, magicattorney wrote:
I ordered mine today. Said it was not available until the 10th on the web page but it has already shipped. Hope to get it by Wednesday.
I was looking for reviews but it looks so good. We'll see. [/quote]

Welcome to the Magic Café counselor.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 4, 2014 09:30PM)
[quote]On Nov 4, 2014, magicattorney wrote:
I ordered mine today. Said it was not available until the 10th on the web page but it has already shipped. Hope to get it by Wednesday.
I was looking for reviews but it looks so good. We'll see. [/quote]

Did you order it from Penguin?
Order on Tuesday and hope to get it Wednesday? I assume you mean Thursday perhaps?
What makes you think it shipped already?
I hope it has shipped so we can start getting some reviews sooner than expected, but something doesn't seem right here.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 4, 2014 09:37PM)
I ordered mine yesterday and it shipped today as well- ahead of the release date
Message: Posted by: MattyWhipple (Nov 4, 2014 11:18PM)
I noticed that when he shows both sides of the card box, the back side is the old style bicycle box...

I really really hope this is practical enough for me to use in my restaurants. I I'm so tempted to just go ahead and order it!
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Nov 4, 2014 11:51PM)
It looks like the refills are good for 400 performances. I wonder how many times I can perform with the gimmick that comes with the DVD.
Message: Posted by: reignofsound (Nov 5, 2014 04:39AM)
[quote]On Nov 4, 2014, Magic KL wrote:
Reignofsound, what don't you like about this? I am just curious. [/quote]

Just not that taking by it.
Putting in a card in a bit of cellophane for what reason?
More impressive if the card jumped back in the box not a bit of cellophane
I think most people will think there is a slit of some kind, just not for me this one.
Message: Posted by: Scott Fridinger (Nov 5, 2014 05:25AM)
Did no one else notice that when the card is folded on the Spectator's hand it is almost flat, but when it goes into the cellophane the angle of the fold seems to "widen". It looks good, but there is something off if the folds are not even.
Message: Posted by: rasp (Nov 5, 2014 05:43AM)
I would be interested to know if instead of a playing card, a billet could be used.
Message: Posted by: DrDenis (Nov 5, 2014 08:13AM)
It seems that the visible signature in the cellophane is always the same: "ML".
it is only when we see the unfolded card (or bill) that we see the spectator's signature!!! :angel:
Message: Posted by: Joe Roberts (Nov 5, 2014 08:31AM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, Scott Fridinger wrote:
Did no one else notice that when the card is folded on the Spectator's hand it is almost flat, but when it goes into the cellophane the angle of the fold seems to "widen". It looks good, but there is something off if the folds are not even. [/quote]


[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, DrDenis wrote:
It seems that the visible signature in the cellophane is always the same: "ML".
it is only when we see the unfolded card (or bill) that we see the spectator's signature!!! :angel: [/quote]

You guys might be on to something. It's possible this trick uses sleight-of-hand, gimmicks, and routining to accomplish the effect and not some magical incantation used to harness satan's almighty power.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 5, 2014 09:12AM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, Joe Roberts wrote:
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, Scott Fridinger wrote:
Did no one else notice that when the card is folded on the Spectator's hand it is almost flat, but when it goes into the cellophane the angle of the fold seems to "widen". It looks good, but there is something off if the folds are not even. [/quote]


[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, DrDenis wrote:
It seems that the visible signature in the cellophane is always the same: "ML".
it is only when we see the unfolded card (or bill) that we see the spectator's signature!!! :angel: [/quote]

You guys might be on to something. It's possible this trick uses sleight-of-hand, gimmicks, and routining to accomplish the effect and not some magical incantation used to harness satan's almighty power. [/quote]

I doubt it. Sleight of hand? My guess is the gimmick whatever it is does the work.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 5, 2014 09:15AM)
Your thinking of a paper clipped possibility with a MF?

I still think the gimmick is doing the work as is goes from in hand to in cellophane. That precludes a sw*tch me thinks.
Message: Posted by: MattyWhipple (Nov 5, 2014 10:25AM)
I know exactly what is going on here, and if you own The Switch by Shin Lim, you probably do too. This most certainly IS going to require some sleights. Whatever gimmick he's come up with for getting the card into the cellophane is going to be awesome, I bet. Probably worth the price of the effect alone if it is what I'm thinking it is.
Message: Posted by: ComposerCopenhagen (Nov 5, 2014 11:50AM)
I had never thought I would say this, but if it works like the switch by Shin Lim , I would rather stick to that. It is a longer and more impossible routine than this second.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 5, 2014 12:21PM)
Geez why do we need to bring Shin Lim into this nice party?
Message: Posted by: Scott Fridinger (Nov 5, 2014 12:42PM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, Joe Roberts wrote:
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, Scott Fridinger wrote:
Did no one else notice that when the card is folded on the Spectator's hand it is almost flat, but when it goes into the cellophane the angle of the fold seems to "widen". It looks good, but there is something off if the folds are not even. [/quote]


You guys might be on to something. It's possible this trick uses sleight-of-hand, gimmicks, and routining to accomplish the effect and not some magical incantation used to harness satan's almighty power. [/quote]

Joe, I wasn't implying that there wasn't sleight of hand or a trick going on, I am implying that the illusion of the cards is poor if the card looks different inside the cellophane than it did, a split second before, outside the cellophane.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 5, 2014 12:56PM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, Scott Fridinger wrote:
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, Joe Roberts wrote:
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, Scott Fridinger wrote:
Did no one else notice that when the card is folded on the Spectator's hand it is almost flat, but when it goes into the cellophane the angle of the fold seems to "widen". It looks good, but there is something off if the folds are not even. [/quote]


You guys might be on to something. It's possible this trick uses sleight-of-hand, gimmicks, and routining to accomplish the effect and not some magical incantation used to harness satan's almighty power. [/quote]

Joe, I wasn't implying that there wasn't sleight of hand or a trick going on, I am implying that the illusion of the cards is poor if the card looks different inside the cellophane than it did, a split second before, outside the cellophane. [/quote]

then do the version with the signed coin instead- which wouldnt work with Shin's The Switch method....
Message: Posted by: ComposerCopenhagen (Nov 5, 2014 01:03PM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, Scott Fridinger wrote:
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, Joe Roberts wrote:
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, Scott Fridinger wrote:
Did no one else notice that when the card is folded on the Spectator's hand it is almost flat, but when it goes into the cellophane the angle of the fold seems to "widen". It looks good, but there is something off if the folds are not even. [/quote]


You guys might be on to something. It's possible this trick uses sleight-of-hand, gimmicks, and routining to accomplish the effect and not some magical incantation used to harness satan's almighty power. [/quote]

Joe, I wasn't implying that there wasn't sleight of hand or a trick going on, I am implying that the illusion of the cards is poor if the card looks different inside the cellophane than it did, a split second before, outside the cellophane. [/quote]

then do the version with the signed coin instead- which wouldnt work with Shin's The Switch method.... [/quote]

Signed on both sides?
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 5, 2014 01:12PM)
[quote]On Nov 4, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
I ordered mine yesterday and it shipped today as well- ahead of the release date [/quote]

That's very unusual.
Sounds like they must have gotten a very early, very limited run in stock.
Still would like to know if these orders already shipped were from Penguin?
Thanks!!!
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Nov 5, 2014 02:56PM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2014, Scott Fridinger wrote:
Did no one else notice that when the card is folded on the Spectator's hand it is almost flat, but when it goes into the cellophane the angle of the fold seems to "widen". It looks good, but there is something off if the folds are not even. [/quote]

How many times did you watch or pause the video looking for that? No spectator is ever going to notice that or be looking for fold indifferences. Especially when they do not even know what is going to happen. Stuff that magicians study, expect, and look for fly right by laymen so don't over-anaylyze too much.
Message: Posted by: magicattorney (Nov 6, 2014 08:51AM)
[quote]On Nov 4, 2014, saysold1 wrote:
[quote]On Nov 4, 2014, magicattorney wrote:
I ordered mine today. Said it was not available until the 10th on the web page but it has already shipped. Hope to get it by Wednesday.
I was looking for reviews but it looks so good. We'll see. [/quote]

Welcome to the Magic Café counselor. [/quote]

Thanks. Look forward to learning and sharing.
Message: Posted by: Kevin Schaller (Nov 6, 2014 01:09PM)
So has the magic Café become the new 'Learnmagictricks'-forum or what is all that fishing about?

If you like it, show respect to the creator and just buy it. If you are unsure, wait for reviews. No reason to point out imperfections or possible solutions.

Kevin
Message: Posted by: rdegraaf (Nov 6, 2014 01:34PM)
In the video both act the heat is on the cellophane, while I believe it is on the card.
Message: Posted by: ArtIn (Nov 6, 2014 02:13PM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Kevin Schaller wrote:
So has the magic Café become the new 'Learnmagictricks'-forum or what is all that fishing about?

If you like it, show respect to the creator and just buy it. If you are unsure, wait for reviews. No reason to point out imperfections or possible solutions.

Kevin [/quote]

word!
Message: Posted by: Cassidy001 (Nov 6, 2014 02:42PM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Kevin Schaller wrote:
So has the magic Café become the new 'Learnmagictricks'-forum or what is all that fishing about?

If you like it, show respect to the creator and just buy it. If you are unsure, wait for reviews. No reason to point out imperfections or possible solutions.

Preach on! I am pre ordering tomorrow.

Kevin [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Joaquin (Nov 6, 2014 06:32PM)
WHY IS EVERYONE TRYING TO DISCOVER AND TELL HOW IT IS DONE ??? THIS IS SO CHILDISH AND UNETHICAL

All these NEW members please be aware that this is not a Guessing Contest .There is a Code to Follow even if Magic is just your Hobby. And this is TO NEVER REVEAL A SECRET

Have respect for a guy that have the guts to work and use his brain to create this effect. if you are interested then buy it. If not then do not Ruin it for others or for the creator. We do not care how smart you are. We do not need to know from you how do you think it is done.

Follow the Golden Rule " Do not do to other what you do not want other to do to you"
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 6, 2014 07:18PM)
In their defense, the forum guidelines fully support speculation. I think they should be revised to an extent, but it's allowed.
Message: Posted by: Burf (Nov 6, 2014 10:02PM)
This effect looks amazing, especially from a spectators hand. My only reservation is my disappointment with the self bending paperclip which will never again see the light of day from the back of my cupboard.
If it works as shown on the clip then I MUST have it!
Just a bit worried about rushing in....
Message: Posted by: ricklaxmagic (Nov 6, 2014 11:01PM)
Yes, this is a tricky thread. Exposure and method are no good, questioning practicality, performability, required skill-level is all good. But much like a game of 20 questions...even if you're just asking Yes/No questions...if you ask enough (as sometimes happens on threads that run 4 pages or more)...you arrive at the method. It's no 1 person's fault; it's a group thing. Not sure what the solution to this is...but I'd be curious to hear whether you guys see this as a problem and what we might do about it if you think it is. Tricky situation.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 6, 2014 11:14PM)
"SPECULATION -VS- EXPOSURE:

It is , after all, only natural to speculate the possible method to a new trick or effect. Comments as to possibilities of a method are just that - Possibilities. One person may say; "I think it might use a piece of velcro" while another may comment; "No, it probably uses a magnet". Either scenario is okay.

However, If someone knows for a fact what the method is and posts it, then we have exposure and the post will be deleted with NO EXPLANATION given."
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 6, 2014 11:19PM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2014, Kevin Schaller wrote:
So has the magic Café become the new 'Learnmagictricks'-forum or what is all that fishing about?

If you like it, show respect to the creator and just buy it. If you are unsure, wait for reviews. No reason to point out imperfections or possible solutions.

Kevin [/quote]

The rules allow guesses. Read above - same rules for all these years. If it bothers you then get over it. It isn't disrespectful, it is the nature of this section.

Rick Lax is correct that at times things do get out of hand, but on this thread I don't think we are at that stage yet.

By the way Rick it was cool seeing you in Vegas at MV - I hope you bought that cool PM product you had your heart set on.
Message: Posted by: Kevin Schaller (Nov 7, 2014 03:04AM)
[Quote]On Nov 6, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
In their defense, the forum guidelines fully support speculation. I think they should be revised to an extent, but it's allowed. [/quote]

Just because something is allowed, does not mean it is good and should be done. If this was my creation, I would not appreciate people pointing out possible solutions. A creation means a lot to an inventor, like this quote of Nikola Tesla shows:

"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success . . . Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything."


So please stop this guys, it is not professional, not polite and most important - it does not bring anyone further.
Kevin
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 7, 2014 08:31AM)
[quote]On Nov 7, 2014, Kevin Schaller wrote:
[Quote]On Nov 6, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
In their defense, the forum guidelines fully support speculation. I think they should be revised to an extent, but it's allowed. [/quote]

Just because something is allowed, does not mean it is good and should be done. If this was my creation, I would not appreciate people pointing out possible solutions. A creation means a lot to an inventor, like this quote of Nikola Tesla shows:

"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success . . . Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything."


So please stop this guys, it is not professional, not polite and most important - it does not bring anyone further.
Kevin [/quote]

evin - get over it.

I see you are a creator and good for you - obviously you have your own perspectives.

This is the playground we are on and those are the rules like them or not. If you don't like them move along to a different playground.

Nice quote - thanks for sharing.

Now lets let the conversation continue - it is not impolite, it is the way this place works like it or not.
Message: Posted by: David Klass (Nov 7, 2014 09:18AM)
Oh dear!!

Are we not usually all pointed in the direction of "downstairs" when it comes to discussing methods?

As we should be, in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 7, 2014 09:28AM)
These are (still) apparently guesses which are allowed according to the rules - methods that are known or secrets go down.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Nov 7, 2014 10:07AM)
That is what happens when the hype machine goes into action way before the item is actually released.

What are we supposed to do- accept everything that we're told by people with a financial interest in the product and just sit here and ooh and ah about it?
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 7, 2014 10:33AM)
The problem is I like to think that most of us are pretty clever, so when someone speculates, they may very well get it right... and then people cry exposure. According to the rules, that is acceptable even if it is the actual method used because it was just an educated guess.

In the case of Sealed, no one in this thread seems to have suggested anything about how the card got inside the cellophane- so I don't see much exposure. All that was said was the card looked a bit different outside/inside. I think around these parts, its pretty safe to say whenever the magician has to sign a card/object as well as the spectator, and the moment the magic happens only the magician's signature is visible, you know SOMETHING happened... but I have no idea how or what took place.
Message: Posted by: MR Effecto (Nov 7, 2014 11:13AM)
[quote]On Nov 7, 2014, saysold1 wrote:
[quote]On Nov 7, 2014, Kevin Schaller wrote:
[Quote]On Nov 6, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
In their defense, the forum guidelines fully support speculation. I think they should be revised to an extent, but it's allowed. [/quote]

Just because something is allowed, does not mean it is good and should be done. If this was my creation, I would not appreciate people pointing out possible solutions. A creation means a lot to an inventor, like this quote of Nikola Tesla shows:

"I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success . . . Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything."


So please stop this guys, it is not professional, not polite and most important - it does not bring anyone further.
Kevin [/quote]

evin - get over it.

I see you are a creator and good for you - obviously you have your own perspectives.

This is the playground we are on and those are the rules like them or not. If you don't like them move along to a different playground.

Nice quote - thanks for sharing.

Now lets let the conversation continue - it is not impolite, it is the way this place works like it or not. [/quote]


Then as a creator we should not put things out for pre order. Pre orders are way out of hane with magic effects.
Message: Posted by: CarlMcCoy (Nov 7, 2014 11:15AM)
But it is exposure to people frequenting here to try to find some secrets. The fact that it's a load of magicians speculating on method is irrelevant, methods (or possible parts of ones) are still being discussed. Therefore, exposure in my book.

But it once again brings up the whole rules thing. That open speculation of methods is allowed by this forum is pretty stupid...again, in my opinion. With all the constant worrying over Youtube exposure, I'm surprised that so many don't see the rules of this forum being almost as bad.

But then I've always hated the fact that the forums (not just this one) are so freely open to so many. This place isn't hard to find if hunting down magic secrets are your thing. I found it pretty early on when searching for ways to do magic tricks (as probably most beginners do when they start out)
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 7, 2014 11:35AM)
[quote]On Nov 7, 2014, CarlMcCoy wrote:
But it is exposure to people frequenting here to try to find some secrets. The fact that it's a load of magicians speculating on method is irrelevant, methods (or possible parts of ones) are still being discussed. Therefore, exposure in my book.

But it once again brings up the whole rules thing. That open speculation of methods is allowed by this forum is pretty stupid...again, in my opinion. With all the constant worrying over Youtube exposure, I'm surprised that so many don't see the rules of this forum being almost as bad.

But then I've always hated the fact that the forums (not just this one) are so freely open to so many. This place isn't hard to find if hunting down magic secrets are your thing. I found it pretty early on when searching for ways to do magic tricks (as probably most beginners do when they start out) [/quote]

But when making new rules it is difficult to know where to draw the line, and it could possibly differ depending on the product being discussed and the context. And it will most certainly differ from person to person.
I certainly don't like exposure but what about determining if an effect requires a deck switch, a force, wearing a jacket, or even a gimmick at all?

Maybe I am naive but I believe most folks asking questions are simply concerned about whether a new product is right for them. For instance, if a fantastic looking effect requires lapping then that eliminates me and others as I rarely perform seated at a table. I would like to know that before shelling out $35.00 on average per effect. Even with the rules as they currently are I feel the Café has done me far more good than harm and I would venture that that is true for many (if not most) folks here.

Even when it comes to creators, discussions about their products, even if it borders on exposure at times, I'm sure helps them more than hurts them in the vast majority of cases.

What I find strange is why this thread has garnered so much attention about exposure and speculation as I find it much tamer than many other threads. But perhaps there were many posts that were already removed that I cannot view now.
Message: Posted by: SittinDuK (Nov 7, 2014 11:36AM)
For what it's worth I had no idea about the Café until it was mentioned to me after attending IBM ring meetings for a couple of months. I think most people who might stumble onto the Café that aren't magicians are probably going to type in Blaine or Brown find 20 pages of magicians arguing and forget all about the websites existence. If they're searching on google for 'signed card into the cellophane of a card box' they're going to see Sealed by Menney Lindenfeld as the 4th link down (as I'm typing this). If they then choose to click that link and your performance was anything like the one in the demos then well they know you did it with something you can buy.

If however they type 'signed card into the wrap of a card box' they're going to have to wade through pages of pinterest and etsy links. So if I end up using Sealed I shall never mention the word cellophane, pretty much how I don't call a Faro a Faro around lay people.

There are some things that I think need full exposure before you can make your own mind on whether you want to purchase that item, however I think a lay person only needs to know that you can buy something that accomplishes the feat they saw to decide that's how you did it regardless of whether that is the method you used.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 7, 2014 12:06PM)
I seriously doubt that laymen go on the magic Café to find out methods. even if they find out this site exists, the home page has 100 subforums.

Honestly if they want exposure, they would go to YouTube.
Message: Posted by: dduane (Nov 7, 2014 12:12PM)
There's so much speculation and bickering about methods. I think the real issue is will this totally amaze and entertain the spectator. For me personally I think it's a little odd to put a card into the wrapper, so I would probably not use it. I will say that the spectator would probably not be able to figure it out. Just not for my style.

Dennis
Message: Posted by: sirbrad (Nov 7, 2014 04:28PM)
That is magician over-thinking, laymen do not care about the card appearing in cellophane, it is "magic" and not all magic needs to make "sense" either like many magicians seem to think. Also as a real-world performer I don't buy stuff based on secrets or if it fooled me, hobbyists do that usually. I buy stuff that I can use in the real world and entertain people with. Sure I find stuff that I love and am curious about once in awhile but most of the time I buy magic that I can use and that my audience will enjoy. I also enjoy it as well otherwise it would be a lot more work. Having been in magic for 34 years now I don't see much that totally fools me anymore, and if I did I probably would not buy it because that would be a moment I would want to last. At least for a few months. :lol:
Message: Posted by: rikio (Nov 7, 2014 06:17PM)
Magic effects are the only products that you don't know what you're buying until you've bought them..
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 7, 2014 07:32PM)
[quote]On Nov 4, 2014, magicattorney wrote:
I ordered mine today. Said it was not available until the 10th on the web page but it has already shipped. Hope to get it by Wednesday.
I was looking for reviews but it looks so good. We'll see. [/quote]

Looking forward to some reviews from actual owners.
Message: Posted by: Burf (Nov 7, 2014 09:14PM)
Sometimes knowing how it I done can be a real disappointment.
HOWEVER, when you see the faces and reactions of your audience when performing - magic returns!
To your audience in their amazement and astonishment and to you in the form of the pleasure they receive.
As my daughter tells me, she knows how I do all my effects - BY MAGIC - and that is all she wants to know.
If only all audiences were like that - by the way she is a 27 year old lawyer and mother!
Message: Posted by: fcchief1 (Nov 7, 2014 10:31PM)
I watched the trailer twice and was amazed both times, and thought this is what the spectator is going to see and remember. Enough for me, to pre-purchase. I work mostly small parties, local pubs etc. Am hoping somehow I might be able to routine this with the V Deck. Killer ending to a routine!
Message: Posted by: Cassidy001 (Nov 8, 2014 06:31AM)
I ordered and should hopefully get it by Wednesday. I am hoping that it actually looks that amazing in real life. I'll find out next week.
Message: Posted by: Sashac (Nov 8, 2014 06:38AM)
Trailer just gave me an idea for a method to do something extremely similar in aesthetics. To develop....
Message: Posted by: BCE (Nov 8, 2014 08:13AM)
Refills already sold out? Really? Is this a Penguin exclusive, or can I get them anywhere else?
Message: Posted by: Cohiba (Nov 8, 2014 10:40AM)
In my opinion, I don't think the signature is that important in effects like this where the effect is impossibly clean.

When I watch this, it seems like the object never leaves your sight, so a switch wouldn't be suspected, and the signature makes no sense. (What purpose does signing the card serve?) In fact, it almost points to the method, in that it suggests the card could have been switched.

Maybe I'm wrong, but to me the effect is that you have their card in their hand, it melts through the cellophane, and you give it back. How could it have switched when the magician wasn't touching it and it never left my sight? If I buy this, I'm going to test it out without the signature and see if anyone ever makes a comment about it being a different card. I highly doubt it.

I feel the same way about some of the very clean T&R card effects, such as The Reformation. I get it that the signature adds a level of impossibility for magicians, but do lay people ever suspect a switch when the card never appears to leave your sight and fuses together like the magician is describing? Again, watching like a layman - the card is ripped into 4 pieces, then one by one they fuse back together. There is nothing that suggests (or appears plausible) that a switch would even help the effect as it's put together piece by piece. Retrograde analysis may say that he must have switched it, but then logic cancels that out because how is a switch going to explain a half card to a 3/4 card, then back to the full card? Plus he had a free choice of cards to begin with?

I believe a signature should be used when the card is somewhere where it shouldn't / couldn't be, like card to impossible location. Not when it's where it should (and appears to) be.

I don't know, maybe I'm off my rocker, or maybe I'm just a good layman.

Does anyone else agree?
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 8, 2014 11:32AM)
Yes, I agree with you Cohiba.
Message: Posted by: SeAraujo (Nov 8, 2014 01:26PM)
Me too, Cohiba.
Message: Posted by: Kaliix (Nov 8, 2014 04:54PM)
One thing you should be careful about when quoting search results is that Google tailors each search based on the machine being searched from and it's browsing history/cookies/purchases etc. You as a magician looking at magician-y things will get different results from your browser than someone on a different machine or perhaps even using a different browser on the same machine.

[quote]On Nov 7, 2014, SittinDuK wrote:
For what it's worth I had no idea about the Café until it was mentioned to me after attending IBM ring meetings for a couple of months. I think most people who might stumble onto the Café that aren't magicians are probably going to type in Blaine or Brown find 20 pages of magicians arguing and forget all about the websites existence. If they're searching on google for 'signed card into the cellophane of a card box' they're going to see Sealed by Menney Lindenfeld as the 4th link down (as I'm typing this). If they then choose to click that link and your performance was anything like the one in the demos then well they know you did it with something you can buy.

If however they type 'signed card into the wrap of a card box' they're going to have to wade through pages of pinterest and etsy links. So if I end up using Sealed I shall never mention the word cellophane, pretty much how I don't call a Faro a Faro around lay people.

There are some things that I think need full exposure before you can make your own mind on whether you want to purchase that item, however I think a lay person only needs to know that you can buy something that accomplishes the feat they saw to decide that's how you did it regardless of whether that is the method you used. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: BCE (Nov 8, 2014 05:42PM)
[quote]On Nov 8, 2014, Kaliix wrote:
One thing you should be careful about when quoting search results is that Google tailors each search based on the machine being searched from and it's browsing history/cookies/purchases etc. [/quote]

Google's useless when looking for refills. Refills are all sold out. How can the refills be sold out when there's plenty of the DVD's available? It doesn't get any more cart-before-the-horse than that. If anyone has suggestions for a Google search term for finding refills to go with the DVD (now that I'm kicking myself for failing to add it to the cart), I'm all ears.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 8, 2014 06:35PM)
I don't think it's that they're sold out, just not available yet.
The DVD & gimmick starts shipping Monday AFAIK, although a couple folks said they were told theirs had shipped last week.
Not sure what the deal is.
Message: Posted by: Cassidy001 (Nov 8, 2014 07:31PM)
I was able to add refills onto my order when I ordered from Penguin. Hopefully they will all ship together. I wanted free shipping so I tossed Octopalm in too.
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 8, 2014 10:35PM)
Sorry for the out of stock scare on the refills, fellahs. These flew off the shelf faster than we anticipated. Luckily we should have more coming very soon.

Grab them while you can! At this rate, this next shipment will likely sell out as well.

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/4900

ps. I've had a chance to play with this for the last few days...it's so much fun to perform and I have fried a few brains already. Laymen's stand no chance.
Message: Posted by: Cassidy001 (Nov 8, 2014 10:45PM)
Are refills being released the same day as the full product? I didn't evem think about that. Penguin ships the products when everything on the invoice is present. uh oh.
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 8, 2014 11:00PM)
Cassidy: If you were able to order the refills prior to them going out of stock, then they should should out with the rest of your order.

Any "REFILL" orders placed after my last post will be part of the next batch (which should be here in a matter of days).
Message: Posted by: Cassidy001 (Nov 8, 2014 11:02PM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, Trevah Whateva wrote:
Cassidy: If you were able to order the refills prior to them going out of stock, then they should should out with the rest of your order.

Any "REFILL" orders placed after my last post will be part of the next batch (which should be here in a matter of days). [/quote]


Thanks for that info. I appreciate that.
Message: Posted by: FrankieF (Nov 9, 2014 02:09AM)
What if we all went back and talked about the effect like civilized mature people instead of arguing like little kids?
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 9, 2014 02:11AM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, FrankieF wrote:
What if we all went back and talked about the effect like civilized mature people instead of arguing like little kids? [/quote]

Are you sure you meant to post this in this thread?
Message: Posted by: FrankieF (Nov 9, 2014 12:14PM)
Yes I was refereeing to the earlier comments
Message: Posted by: BCE (Nov 9, 2014 03:53PM)
[quote]On Nov 8, 2014, Cassidy001 wrote:
Are refills being released the same day as the full product? I didn't evem think about that. Penguin ships the products when everything on the invoice is present. uh oh. [/quote]

How could something have gone out of stock if it was not in stock yet to begin with? Were the refills in stock before the DVD/gimmick even came in? Oh well, whatever, nevermind. I got my pre-order placed, hope the next time this happens - and it will happen again - the ad copy is more consistent with the buttons on the web site. Promo people talking to the web site people to the ad copy people before they click "send," that sort of thing. Would save considerable aggravation.
Message: Posted by: BCE (Nov 9, 2014 03:54PM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, FrankieF wrote:
What if we all went back and talked about the effect like civilized mature people instead of arguing like little kids? [/quote]

Yes. Please. Thank you.
Message: Posted by: Cassidy001 (Nov 9, 2014 04:07PM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, BCE wrote:
[quote]On Nov 8, 2014, Cassidy001 wrote:
Are refills being released the same day as the full product? I didn't evem think about that. Penguin ships the products when everything on the invoice is present. uh oh. [/quote]

How could something have gone out of stock if it was not in stock yet to begin with? Were the refills in stock before the DVD/gimmick even came in? Oh well, whatever, nevermind. I got my pre-order placed, hope the next time this happens - and it will happen again - the ad copy is more consistent with the buttons on the web site. Promo people talking to the web site people to the ad copy people before they click "send," that sort of thing. Would save considerable aggravation. [/quote]


What I meant by my question was were all of the preorders formthe refills sold out. Luckily when I placed mine they hadn't reserved them all.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 9, 2014 05:02PM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, Cassidy001 wrote:


What I meant by my question was were all of the preorders formthe refills sold out. Luckily when I placed mine they hadn't reserved them all. [/quote]

Some folks must be pretty confident in this product if they are ordering refills before even receiving the DVD.
It's still not clear to me how many refills/performances are included with the DVD, but if the refills allow 400 performances it must be quite a few I would think.
Message: Posted by: drstevemagic (Nov 9, 2014 06:46PM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, videoman wrote:

Some folks must be pretty confident in this product if they are ordering refills before even receiving the DVD.
It's still not clear to me how many refills/performances are included with the DVD, but if the refills allow 400 performances it must be quite a few I would think. [/quote]

OR perhaps NOT that confident but actually very SLY because when they actually receive the DVD & refills and they discover that it really isn't for them, then they'll have one hand up on everyone else on the "For Sale" forum by offering both the DVD & refills for sale! ;-)
Message: Posted by: BCE (Nov 9, 2014 07:14PM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, drstevemagic wrote:
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, videoman wrote:

Some folks must be pretty confident in this product if they are ordering refills before even receiving the DVD.
It's still not clear to me how many refills/performances are included with the DVD, but if the refills allow 400 performances it must be quite a few I would think. [/quote]

OR perhaps NOT that confident but actually very SLY because when they actually receive the DVD & refills and they discover that it really isn't for them, then they'll have one hand up on everyone else on the "For Sale" forum by offering both the DVD & refills for sale! ;-) [/quote]

Yes, my thoughts exactly. Record Store Day and its related Black Friday event is already ruined because of that (e.g., reissued EP's and limited-edition vinyl pressings that turn up on ebay within hours) and now, the mere word "pre-order" is a magnet for the same [*bleep*]'s. Are no diversions sacred anymore?
Message: Posted by: Cassidy001 (Nov 9, 2014 07:58PM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, videoman wrote:
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, Cassidy001 wrote:


What I meant by my question was were all of the preorders formthe refills sold out. Luckily when I placed mine they hadn't reserved them all. [/quote]

Some folks must be pretty confident in this product if they are ordering refills before even receiving the DVD.
It's still not clear to me how many refills/performances are included with the DVD, but if the refills allow 400 performances it must be quite a few I would think. [/quote]


I would rather be prepared than disappointed. Plus I loke that free shipping.
Message: Posted by: fcchief1 (Nov 9, 2014 08:44PM)
I pre-ordered along with refills, I figure this is something that will work well with my walk around. Just got notice that it was shipped today (Sunday???) Should be here Tuesday afternoon. Will post my thoughts when I get it in my hands!
Message: Posted by: drstevemagic (Nov 9, 2014 09:02PM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, fcchief1 wrote:
I pre-ordered along with refills, I figure this is something that will work well with my walk around. Just got notice that it was shipped today (Sunday???) Should be here Tuesday afternoon. Will post my thoughts when I get it in my hands! [/quote]

Tuesday is Veterans' Day, (no mail), so we'll all have to wait a bit longer for your review.
Message: Posted by: atouchofmagic1 (Nov 10, 2014 06:32AM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, drstevemagic wrote:
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, fcchief1 wrote:
I pre-ordered along with refills, I figure this is something that will work well with my walk around. Just got notice that it was shipped today (Sunday???) Should be here Tuesday afternoon. Will post my thoughts when I get it in my hands! [/quote]

Maybe he ordered FedEx in which case they deliver on Veterans day.

Tuesday is Veterans' Day, (no mail), so we'll all have to wait a bit longer for your review. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Gaz_Japan (Nov 10, 2014 08:17AM)
Will this only be available at penguin??
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 10, 2014 09:57AM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2014, fcchief1 wrote:
I pre-ordered along with refills, I figure this is something that will work well with my walk around. Just got notice that it was shipped today (Sunday???) Should be here Tuesday afternoon. Will post my thoughts when I get it in my hands! [/quote]

Check the tracking to see if it actually shipped on Sunday.
Quite often a notice just means a shipping label was generated but it doesn't actually get picked up until the following day.
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 10, 2014 11:03AM)
If you received a shipping notification, your order was packed up and a shipping label was printed. Since shipping carriers don't operate on Sunday, packages will be picked up today (Monday) by USPS/FedEx.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 10, 2014 06:22PM)
OK, I just watched the DVD. This isn't a proper review as I havent had time to make up the gimmick, but here are some first impressions.

When you open the package, you wont have a clue how it works until you watch the DVD. There is quite a bit of construction to make the gimmick so you're going to need set some time aside. Thankfully, its a one time set up, then you're set. The construction is well taught in great quality on the DVD and everything you need to use is laser cut out for you, so that makes the work easier. With that said, I havent actually constructed it yet, but it seems very managable even for those with no arts and crafts skills.

As far as the gimmick and method go, this is like the anti-Hidden Hand. Its very elaborate, well thought out and very clever... but once constructed should be pretty simple to operate.

Again, I have only watched the DVD so far, but from the looks of it, the trailer is legit. What you see is what you get. They can feel their signed card inside the cellophane and immediately examine the cellophane.

Minimal slight of hand is involved.

The refills are items you have seen before. You can actually get more than just one use out of them for a performance and it should be quite some time before you need to purchase refills.

Hope that helps... will post more thoughts after I've actually constructed the gimmick.
Message: Posted by: drstevemagic (Nov 10, 2014 06:57PM)
[quote]On Nov 10, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
OK, I just watched the DVD. This isn't a proper review as I havent had time to make up the gimmick, but here are some first impressions.

When you open the package, you wont have a clue how it works until you watch the DVD. There is quite a bit of construction to make the gimmick so you're going to need set some time aside. Thankfully, its a one time set up, then you're set. The construction is well taught in great quality on the DVD and everything you need to use is laser cut out for you, so that makes the work easier. With that said, I havent actually constructed it yet, but it seems very managable even for those with no arts and crafts skills.

As far as the gimmick and method go, this is like the anti-Hidden Hand. Its very elaborate, well thought out and very clever... but once constructed should be pretty simple to operate.

Again, I have only watched the DVD so far, but from the looks of it, the trailer is legit. What you see is what you get. They can feel their signed card inside the cellophane and immediately examine the cellophane.

Minimal slight of hand is involved.

The refills are items you have seen before. You can actually get more than just one use out of them for a performance and it should be quite some time before you need to purchase refills.

Hope that helps... will post more thoughts after I've actually constructed the gimmick. [/quote]


Thanks for your initial review. So far it sounds very encouraging. Looking forward to your next post.
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Nov 10, 2014 10:17PM)
First review! Yay!! Thanks~
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Nov 10, 2014 10:31PM)
By the way, is it necessary to buy refills? How long does the initial gimmick last? Thanks!
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 10, 2014 10:38PM)
You get plenty of uses for what comes in the box. The refills are not a "magic item".... you can get them elsewhere for cheap
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Nov 10, 2014 10:39PM)
Thank you very much for your quick response!! Have a good night.
Message: Posted by: ArtIn (Nov 11, 2014 01:28PM)
TuneHV thank you very much for the review!!
I love Hidden Hand so this has to be good!

All the best
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 11, 2014 03:12PM)
OK, that's why we call them initial impressions and not a review.

I tried to make up the gimmick today.... while it seems relatively straight forward on the DVD... it was very difficult to create. I cant reveal anything, but the gimmick you are creating is basically a custom james bond gizmo... this is the most elaborate gimmick I think I've ever seen, and the silly part is its so crazy to do just a simple task. The issue is while you are putting it together, its not clear exactly why you are creating and how it all works until the VERY end of the construction. Get prepared a for a ton of play/pause/rewind as you try to create this thing.

Menny says on the DVD that the reason he chose these materials was to keep the cost down for consumers... while I appreciate that, I would have appreciated higher end materials used in the gimmick.

Like I said previously, its a one time set up, so thank god you only have to endure this once, then you're set.

With that said, now that I made up the gimmick, its extremely finicky and I cant get it work properly. Its very possible that I simply did something wrong during the arts and crafts section, but this thing is so complex its not like there's an easy troubleshooting solution.

So I really like the concept of this, but its simply not working for me. Maybe I'm just an idiot or maybe its not a reliable gimmick... its too soon to comment, so I'll wait for others to chime in on their experience.

So this is not a negative review (yet), but I wanted to just give an update on my earlier praise as its not going according to plan so far.

Very curious if others have had the same issue.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 11, 2014 03:19PM)
[quote]On Nov 11, 2014, ArtIn wrote:
TuneHV thank you very much for the review!!
I love Hidden Hand so this has to be good!

All the best [/quote]

I think you misunderstood my comparisson.

I called it the anti-Hidden Hand because Hidden Hand is an extremely simple device.

Sealed's gimmicks are incredibly complex in design (but less so in handling).
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 11, 2014 03:31PM)
[quote]On Nov 11, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
OK, that's why we call them initial impressions and not a review.

I tried to make up the gimmick today.... while it seems relatively straight forward on the DVD... it was very difficult to create. I cant reveal anything, but the gimmick you are creating is basically a custom james bond gizmo... this is the most elaborate gimmick I think I've ever seen, and the silly part is its so crazy to do just a simple task. The issue is while you are putting it together, its not clear exactly why you are creating and how it all works until the VERY end of the construction. Get prepared a for a ton of play/pause/rewind as you try to create this thing.

Menny says on the DVD that the reason he chose these materials was to keep the cost down for consumers... while I appreciate that, I would have appreciated higher end materials used in the gimmick.

Like I said previously, its a one time set up, so thank god you only have to endure this once, then you're set.

With that said, now that I made up the gimmick, its extremely finicky and I cant get it work properly. Its very possible that I simply did something wrong during the arts and crafts section, but this thing is so complex its not like there's an easy troubleshooting solution.

So I really like the concept of this, but its simply not working for me. Maybe I'm just an idiot or maybe its not a reliable gimmick... its too soon to comment, so I'll wait for others to chime in on their experience.

So this is not a negative review (yet), but I wanted to just give an update on my earlier praise as its not going according to plan so far.

Very curious if others have had the same issue. [/quote]
Even if it is not a reveiw, it is a really good insight into making the gimmick and what trouble people might cross while they put it together and for me it has answered the question,it is not for me simply because of my bad Art and Craft hand skills.
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 11, 2014 04:05PM)
I wouldn't be thrown off by the set up, Fire Starter. Although it does have a few steps to follow, if you pay attention and take your time, it's really quite simple to assemble.

I've been playing with one for about a week now and I can honestly say that the end result is definitely worth the set up. I can't remember the last effect I had this much fun playing with.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 11, 2014 04:25PM)
[quote]On Nov 11, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
OK, that's why we call them initial impressions and not a review.

So this is not a negative review (yet), but I wanted to just give an update on my earlier praise as its not going according to plan so far.

Very curious if others have had the same issue. [/quote]

I own a video production business and when creating any kind of instructional video it is always standard operating procedure that after capturing and editing the footage, you then try it out on a few people in order to verify that the instructions are complete and as easy to follow as possible. IOW you use that feedback and re-shoot/re-edit as necessary and add additional text or voiceover if required. Whatever needs to be done in order to make the instructions as easy to follow as possible.

I doubt that a single instructional DVD has EVER done this in the magic world, and I can guarantee you that the majority of them don't. How often have you seen a presenter not have all the tools or materials ready at hand? Or the scissors aren't sharp enough to cut, or some other silly thing like that.
You would never see that in the real world.

I know magic is a small market but that is no excuse because doing it properly does not require that much extra time or money. It's simply laziness or sometimes simply inexperience or naivety in this world of "get in one take" you tube videos.

Sorry to hear this could be the case with Sealed.

TuneHV, I realize you probably couldn't know for sure, but in your opinion do you feel like they could have included the gimmick already made up, without making it cost prohibitive?
Or at least provide an option to purchase fully functioning gimmicks separately.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 11, 2014 04:45PM)
The instruction on the DVD is fine.

With the materials they used I don't think it could have come prearranged unless it was all done by hand.
Message: Posted by: Spicoli (Nov 11, 2014 05:07PM)
Love arts and crafts - my favorite aspect of Kindergarten! That said, would love to hear some more thoughts from those that have had a chance to make this up before picking one up. Anyone else got this in their hands yet?
Message: Posted by: fcchief1 (Nov 11, 2014 08:16PM)
Got home and it there it was waiting for me. Watching the method I must admit the most different method than any other I have ever seen! Construction will take a little patience from what I gather watching the construction but if you follow step by step I don't see any reason for any problems. I continued watching the DVD and on one chapter discussing the method for the signed card, while he was describing part of it the audio continued but the video switched to working with a dollar bill!!! I tried to go back and thought maybe it was a glitch but it happened again. And this at a crucial moment in his description!! I am going to try it on my desktop but if it replicates itself will have to contact Ms51 and see if this is a common issue! So far though I can see doing this, with some practice. Will update as needed!
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 11, 2014 08:23PM)
Yes, there is a mistake on the DVD during an important part where the video goes to the dollar bill construction. He repeats the move later on, but that was bad.

Also, its kind of ridiculous that throughout the arts and crafts section, the narrator keeps referring to each piece as "part 1" "part 2" etc. when none of the parts are labelled.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 12, 2014 08:06AM)
I figured out why it's not working for me. it was assembled correctly but because of the cheap materials used to create the gimmick- one part is more or less broken via the natural operation of the gimmick. For that reason I cannot recommend this despite the clever method as my gimmick now appears to be useless and I'm out $35.
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Nov 12, 2014 08:40AM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
I figured out why it's not working for me. it was assembled correctly but because of the cheap materials used to create the gimmick- one part is more or less broken via the natural operation of the gimmick. For that reason I cannot recommend this despite the clever method as my gimmick now appears to be useless and I'm out $35. [/quote]

is the mechanism itself fixable using common household items and moderate arts and crafts skills?

still, maybe you got a defective gimmick? unlucky.
Thanks
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 12, 2014 09:29AM)
Its possible my gimmick was defective... Menny has offered to send me a replacement, which is very generous of him. I'm going to assume my case was an isolated incident.
Message: Posted by: fcchief1 (Nov 12, 2014 01:26PM)
TuneHV you said "He repeats the move later on, but that was bad." I did not watch further on the DVD, so are you saying he goes over this again? If so which chapter? Seems this part is crucial to the performance of the Specs signed and chosen card appearing in the cellophane! I did contact Penguin Magic last night but have not heard back as of lunch today. Sorry to hear yours is broke, have not attempted construction of mine, will wait until I have plenty of time and no distractions.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 12, 2014 01:53PM)
Love the look of this but sounds like the gimmick may be finicky and possibly fragile.
Finicky+Fragile=Frustrating
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 12, 2014 02:26PM)
I've been using the gimmick, multiple times a day, for over a week now and haven't had any issues whatsoever. There doesn't seem to be any signs or wear either. I'd strongly disagree that the gimmick is finicky or fragile. If you take the time to set it up properly, the gimmick should work flawlessly.
Message: Posted by: drstevemagic (Nov 12, 2014 02:32PM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2014, Trevah Whateva wrote:
I've been using the gimmick, multiple times a day, for over a week now and haven't had any issues whatsoever. There doesn't seem to be any signs or wear either. I'd strongly disagree that the gimmick is finicky or fragile. If you take the time to set it up properly, the gimmick should work flawlessly. [/quote]


DO YOU WORK FOR PENGUIN MAGIC?
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 12, 2014 02:41PM)
I sure do! I'm also one of the first people to have played with the effect and am "likely" one of the most experienced users at this point.
Message: Posted by: drstevemagic (Nov 12, 2014 03:36PM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2014, Trevah Whateva wrote:
I sure do! I'm also one of the first people to have played with the effect and am "likely" one of the most experienced users at this point. [/quote]



Great! I have a few questions:

How long did it take you to make the gimmick?

How long do you think it would take an average middle aged hobbyist to do the same?

Did you find the directions clear and concise and not confusing in any way as has been reported (i.e. "part1, part2" etc)?

What is the skill level necessary to perform this effect properly?

Does the gimmick do most of the work or are sleights necessary.

Will this take a good deal of practice to perform well or will the average person be able to perform this shortly after completing construction of the gimmick?


Thank you.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 12, 2014 04:12PM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2014, drstevemagic wrote:
[quote]On Nov 12, 2014, Trevah Whateva wrote:
I sure do! I'm also one of the first people to have played with the effect and am "likely" one of the most experienced users at this point. [/quote]



Great! I have a few questions:

How long did it take you to make the gimmick?

How long do you think it would take an average middle aged hobbyist to do the same?

Did you find the directions clear and concise and not confusing in any way as has been reported (i.e. "part1, part2" etc)?

What is the skill level necessary to perform this effect properly?

Does the gimmick do most of the work or are sleights necessary.

Will this take a good deal of practice to perform well or will the average person be able to perform this shortly after completing construction of the gimmick?


Thank you. [/quote]
Very good questions asked drstevemagic,well the first 3 How long did it take you to make the gimmick?

How long do you think it would take an average middle aged hobbyist to do the same?

Did you find the directions clear and concise and not confusing in any way as has been reported (i.e. "part1, part2" etc)?. I trust what TuneHV veiw's are on making the gimmick up more then a representative (Trevah Whatevawho)who has come on to beef up Penguin Magic sales,sorry but just my thought's,so I am interested in more reveiw's or more info on how hard it really is to make it up and is it all that?.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 12, 2014 04:20PM)
Just to clarify... ff you are not good at arts and crafts, its not an issue. Making the gimmick is a bit of a chore, but its not difficult, it just requires a decent chunk of your time.

And while they refer to "part 1, part 2, etc." despite it not beind labelled, its still clear to see what they are referring to.. just odd that it wasnt actually labeled as referenced.

Hope that clears some concerns up.
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 12, 2014 04:24PM)
Here we go drstevemagic:

1. It took me about 20-25 mins minutes to make the gimmick but I was multi-tasking so I bet it could be done even quicker.

2. I'm not a pro-magician or engineer and I don't have a lot of experience with gimmick assembly so I'd say that it should take any hobbyist (or pro) the same about of time.

3. I found the directions to be very clear. It is a little odd that the narrator refers to "part numbers" since the components aren't numbered in any way BUT it's VERY easy to determine which "parts" he refers to in each step.

As far as the play/pause/rewind goes, I think it's pretty normal to have to do this with any type of video instruction when assembling things. I like to use YouTube to do DYI projects around the house, I don't think I've ever been able to watch a video in its entirety without having to pause or go back to back to be sure I followed properly.

4. I'd say it would require a intermediate skill level to perform the basic effect well. There is an advanced method that will take more time and skill to master. However, the advanced method is pretty specific to this effect so I think it'll just come down to time and dedication for most.

5. The gimmick does most of the work, but you will need to have easy/moderate sleight skills to really have fun with it.

6. I was able to perform it (unprofessionally) after watching the DVD once. Again, I'm not a pro-magician so I can only assume that the pro's will knock this out of the park pretty quickly.

A little practice will go a long way with this one.

Hope this helps!
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 12, 2014 04:29PM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
Just to clarify... ff you are not good at arts and crafts, its not an issue. Making the gimmick is a bit of a chore, but its not difficult, it just requires a decent chunk of your time.

And while they refer to "part 1, part 2, etc." despite it not beind labelled, its still clear to see what they are referring to.. just odd that it wasnt actually labeled as referenced.

Hope that clears some concerns up. [/quote]
No worries TuneHV,just you know how it is here at the moment and there has been some good honest feedback from real people who have purchased new releases only to find they do not stand up to the hype and I for one do beleive I have saved momey on at least 3 new magic effect's out there from good honest reveiws,magic is not a cheap hobby ,that is for sure and if I can save more money and have less junking up my drawer, then I am happy,Magicians helping Magicians,is certainly what Greatest and Latest is all about.
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 12, 2014 04:32PM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2014, Trevah Whateva wrote:
Here we go drstevemagic:

1. It took me about 20-25 mins minutes to make the gimmick but I was multi-tasking so I bet it could be done even quicker.

2. I'm not a pro-magician or engineer and I don't have a lot of experience with gimmick assembly so I'd say that it should take any hobbyist (or pro) the same about of time.

3. I found the directions to be very clear. It is a little odd that the narrator refers to "part numbers" since the components aren't numbered in any way BUT it's VERY easy to determine which "parts" he refers to in each step.

As far as the play/pause/rewind goes, I think it's pretty normal to have to do this with any type of video instruction when assembling things. I like to use YouTube to do DYI projects around the house, I don't think I've ever been able to watch a video in its entirety without having to pause or go back to back to be sure I followed properly.

4. I'd say it would require a intermediate skill level to perform the basic effect well. There is an advanced method that will take more time and skill to master. However, the advanced method is pretty specific to this effect so I think it'll just come down to time and dedication for most.

5. The gimmick does most of the work, but you will need to have easy/moderate sleight skills to really have fun with it.

6. I was able to perform it (unprofessionally) after watching the DVD once. Again, I'm not a pro-magician so I can only assume that the pro's will knock this out of the park pretty quickly.

A little practice will go a long way with this one.

Hope this helps! [/quote]
Thank you for clearing up some concern's that may well be on a lot of our mind's.
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 12, 2014 04:33PM)
Fire Starter: I don't think your assumption is fair to me or this thread. Hyping up an effect that we don't stand behind to simply boost sales doesn't benefit us in any way. It's actually WAY more damaging to us. Our reputation means everything to us.

I'm not paid to post on the Café. And you'll notice from my very low post-count, that I rarely chime in to these threads. I also haven't been "selling" this in any way. We always need to be careful on the misinformation that is easily spread on forums such as these. We all should help redirect conversations to ensure that accurate info is being discussed.

I like Sealed, I stand behind it and I'm simply trying to help you and anyone else spend their hard earned money wisely.

I'm here to help! :)
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 12, 2014 04:41PM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2014, Trevah Whateva wrote:
Fire Starter: I don't think your assumption is fair to me or this thread. Hyping up an effect that we don't stand behind to simply boost sales doesn't benefit us in any way. It's actually WAY more damaging to us. Our reputation means everything to us.

I'm not paid to post on the Café. And you'll notice from my very low post-count, that I rarely chime in to these threads. I also haven't been "selling" this in any way. We always need to be careful on the misinformation that is easily spread on forums such as these. We all should help redirect conversations to ensure that accurate info is being discussed.

I like Sealed, I stand behind it and I'm simply trying to help you and anyone else spend their hard earned money wisely.

I'm here to help! :) [/quote]
Trevah Whateva,i do apologise ,i do beleive I did come over as being unfair,so again I am sorry ,i do shop at PENGUIN MAGIC and have had excellent service from them,so I hope my apology is accepted.all the best.
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 12, 2014 04:55PM)
It's all good...No offense taken! Onwards and upwards!
Message: Posted by: fcchief1 (Nov 12, 2014 05:35PM)
Ok Trevah, I was the head mod for Penguin and one of the administrators on the site prior to servers crashing or whatever happened. What say you on the DVD issue, at the 58:59 point on the DVD, (Selected Card Chapter) the video switches to preparing a bill, yet the audio continues with is explanation of performing the selected card effect. I emailed Penguin last nite, no answer yet, also tried to call but got voicemail. It seems this is a production problem since TuneHV stated he noted the same thing. Althoug he said the explanation is later, where is it? Also I used several players and I could not drag the timeline forward to jump to certain spots, it just would not allow it. So was stuck restarting the chapter and going thru the up to the audio/video gaff. Anybody else that has this, would like to hear some input on this. Not knocking the trick just the production of the DVD. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 12, 2014 06:06PM)
We're working with Menny right now on a fix for that DVD issue. There will be a solution very very soon!
Message: Posted by: Cassidy001 (Nov 12, 2014 06:55PM)
Got mine in tonight. Won't have time to watch until tomorrow. Grrr. Oh well. I'll update at that time.
Message: Posted by: tobajer (Nov 12, 2014 11:46PM)
If I buy refill for Sealed do I still need to construct a gimmick - is the refill a gimmick my question is ? :)
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 12, 2014 11:53PM)
[quote]On Nov 13, 2014, tobajer wrote:
If I buy refill for Sealed do I still need to construct a gimmick - is the refill a gimmick my question is ? :) [/quote]

the refill is not the gimmick
Message: Posted by: tobajer (Nov 13, 2014 01:22AM)
[quote]On Nov 13, 2014, TuneHV wrote:
[quote]On Nov 13, 2014, tobajer wrote:
If I buy refill for Sealed do I still need to construct a gimmick - is the refill a gimmick my question is ? :) [/quote]

the refill is not the gimmick [/quote]

That is weird than. What do you need refill for if it is not a gimmick. Does it help to construct one or what, cause now I am confused big time ?
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 13, 2014 01:34AM)
It's a part of the gimmick that will need replacing
Message: Posted by: tobajer (Nov 13, 2014 05:19AM)
Ahhh. Ok. Thanks a lot for clarification. Thumbs up
Message: Posted by: James Warren (Nov 13, 2014 07:52AM)
1. Can this be used as part of a strolling set?

2. Can I finished a card routine, put the entire deck inside the case, and go into Sealed using that same case?

3. And/or, can I do Sealed, then remove a deck of cards from the case to begin a card routine?

I'm trying to determine the practicality. The trick looks great, but I would not use it if I cannot be easily integrated into a more or less spontaneous strolling set.
Message: Posted by: BCE (Nov 13, 2014 08:49AM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2014, Trevah Whateva wrote:
We're working with Menny right now on a fix for that DVD issue. There will be a solution very very soon! [/quote]

Wait, what? So there's a problem with the DVD? Is that correct? Will there be a download available on the Penguin site to correct or/and modify any errors? Just want to clarify, thanks.
Message: Posted by: Shawn D (Nov 13, 2014 09:13AM)
I ordered this and I just came in yesterday. I just watched all the instructions and will be trying to assemble it today. Ill post my reviews of assembly later as Im not the greatest craftsman but this looks doable and the instructions are very clear for it.
And yes this is a cool James Bond type of trick. Cant wait to get this going !
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 13, 2014 11:21AM)
BCE: There's an audio issue at one point on the DVD. We should have an update on a fix very soon.
Message: Posted by: eostresh (Nov 13, 2014 02:44PM)
So I plan on a much more in depth review of this once I get more performances under my belt so take this with a grain of salt. So far I have only performed this twice and practiced it about 100 times(give or take 10 times ;) ) I will be able to give a more flushed out review after this weekend when I plan to perform this in a walk around setting..

Overall thoughts: I love this! Is this for beginners? No. Is this for magicians who do not practice? No. Is it fun to practice? DEFINITELY! So practice won't be a problem for most because you will have fun playing around with this anyway. Do spectator's react? Absolutely! Let me just say that the people I have performed for are the trusted lay people I use to try out tricks before I risk my professional reputation on a new effect. You know those people: Friends and family who usually say, "Oh, god, not another one!" Well Sealed is so visual and so unexpected that one actually clapped and the other was just speechless that I fooled him for a change. That hopefully bodes well when I take this out for real this coming weekend.

Construction: Okay so I recommend watching the full DVD before jumping into building the gimmick. Then go back with your remote (mouse) on the pause button while you follow along and construct the gimmicks. So realistically, from the moment you open a DVD case to the time you are ready with a gimmick is about an hour and a half. That is about one hour just watching the DVD and about a half hour of actual gimmick construction (you could shorten that by just watching the parts of the DVD dedicated to building the gimmick but I wanted to know where this was all going before I started building) This is not hard construction and the DVD is very good at showing each step. Building the main gimmick is no harder than putting together a snap together model car or airplane.

Gimmick: It is a great idea for a gimmick but I am almost more impressed with the engineering it took to figure out what needed to go where. Obviously this thing has been in development for a long time. This is a kind of a work of art as magicians’ gimmicks go. How long should it last? My guess is 400+ . I base that on the fact that I have already practiced with it over 100 times. While I have replaced certain parts (parts that you will get plenty of because they will naturally wear out after 20 or so performance/practices) you receive enough of those "parts" to last about 400 performances. There will be refills available but I don't think you need to get that when you get the trick the first time. If you abuse the gimmick or don't pay attention during the construction you might shorten that life but just common sense and following instructions should be enough to easily make your gimmick last.

Performance: Practice it! It is a fun effect and device to practice with anyway, so go for it. The basic handling is not super hard. I would definitely start with the basic handling. Furthermore, it is structured in a way to put heat where you are innocent which makes clean up pretty natural. First spectators would think to look in the cellophane for a hole or something. That is the first bit you hand out. Then the card, the second bit you hand out. Finally, the box. The box is not examinable but at that point spectators are probably just thinking "That was cool!"

The basic handling is not quite as visual as the more advanced handling you see in the demo but remember you are performing for lay people after all. Once you get the basic handling down and feel comfortable with that, then you can switch to more advanced handlings. Those will take more practice but it is practice with timing and handling of the gimmick itself. Because of the unique nature of the advanced handling moves, they will be no more or less difficult for a magician with a year of experience or a magician with 20. As mentioned, I have yet to perform in a walk around (perform/reset/perform) environment. I do not expect many difficulties in this environment but I will give you my thoughts as soon as I do.

Problem with Video: At about 59 minutes the video cuts away to the construction of a bill gimmick while the audio continues on with the discussion of an advanced handling of the card gimmick. Bad news is that that kind of thing is annoying and always sucks. Good news is that it is an advanced handling he is talking about when that happens. So you will definitely be able to construct and get to performing the effect. I trust Menny will address this situation soon and hopefully it gets resolved before most of us are ready to start performing the advanced handling. If you are an intermediate or advanced magician you will likely know where he is going at that point of the video and just by listening still be able to figure out what to do. It will be a problem for newer magicians who are visual learners so hopefully that gets addressed soon.
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 13, 2014 02:44PM)
Great news! We just uploaded a digital version of the chapter that experienced the audio issue.

The entire "Card Selection" chapter is now available for download within your Penguin account.

A BIG thanks to Menny for all his help!
Message: Posted by: Shawn D (Nov 13, 2014 04:05PM)
Great review eostresh,
Spot on on all points.
James Warren question if you can do a card trick put the cards away and go into sealed. Am I allowed to answer this? It would be something I would want to know and wanted to know before I bought the trick. I am going to answer like this.
This is a card,dollar or coin in cellophane trick. One thing I hate is to have to carry around another deck of cards just to do another card trick. I think of it as carrying around another trick to do sealed. You will need a deck of cards to do a card trck.
Message: Posted by: lilyjane13 (Nov 13, 2014 07:08PM)
Thank you so much Trevah.
Message: Posted by: fcchief1 (Nov 15, 2014 03:52AM)
I just want to say Thank You to Penguin for getting the correct video up. Plan on holing up this weekend to practice this and a couple other effects!!
Message: Posted by: bobbyk (Nov 15, 2014 11:31AM)
I am having a problem getting it to "fire" properly. Its as tho I either cannot get enough pressure unto the trigger or its not reaching the proper position....the gimmick does work properly when testing in the hand.
If anyone has had a similar issue but figured it out, please let me know via PM if you are so inclined. Not sure what I may have done wrong.

Many Thanks,

Bk
Message: Posted by: Shawn D (Nov 16, 2014 09:36AM)
Im having the same problem as BK. Ill have to rewatch the dvd or remake the box to see if I did something wrong. Frustration after and hr of assembly.
Message: Posted by: Casey Sparrow (Nov 16, 2014 08:35PM)
Ive had this for a few days now and I finally got round to construction .... but the parts haven't been "cut" properly and this has rendered the gimmick impossible to construct... highly frustrating! I'm hoping that I have a one off faulty gimmick but has any one else encountered similar problems?

Thanks,

CS
Message: Posted by: lilyjane13 (Nov 17, 2014 03:10PM)
[quote]On Nov 15, 2014, bobbyk wrote:
I am having a problem getting it to "fire" properly. Its as tho I either cannot get enough pressure unto the trigger or its not reaching the proper position....the gimmick does work properly when testing in the hand.
If anyone has had a similar issue but figured it out, please let me know via PM if you are so inclined. Not sure what I may have done wrong.

Many Thanks,

Bk [/quote]

I have a same problem.
Message: Posted by: bobbyk (Nov 18, 2014 11:56AM)
I am Happy to say that I do have mine firing correctly. Menny has been very helpful and was concerned that I was having this issue. Mine was really operator error as is usual in my case :-)
I really like this....its really well thought out. Its not one of those things where I would say "why didn't I think of that?"..... there's no way I would have come up with this. I can't imagine taking the time to figure this thing out like Menny did....However, I m glad he did. This looks great!
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 18, 2014 01:24PM)
Our new shipment of Refills just arrived. Grab them while you can, they're selling FAST.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Nov 18, 2014 06:16PM)
Honestly this sounds a bit like a Rube Goldberg type gimmick.
Message: Posted by: rosariorose9 (Nov 18, 2014 08:04PM)
Well, having read this thread, and the various problems members are having in constructing the gimmick, I'm seriously questioning my earlier purchase of the effect. It is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. Will see .....
Message: Posted by: pkconjure (Nov 19, 2014 10:27AM)
[quote]On Nov 13, 2014, Trevah Whateva wrote:
Great news! We just uploaded a digital version of the chapter that experienced the audio issue.

The entire "Card Selection" chapter is now available for download within your Penguin account.

A BIG thanks to Menny for all his help! [/quote]
I thought the construction of the gimmick should have been videoed in back of of Menny, it would have been a lot easier to follow.
Message: Posted by: pkconjure (Nov 19, 2014 10:32AM)
I thought it would have been a lot easier to follow the constructon of the gimmick if it was videoed in back of menny.
Message: Posted by: Dapperdan (Nov 19, 2014 06:15PM)
[quote]On Nov 18, 2014, bobbyk wrote:
I am Happy to say that I do have mine firing correctly. Menny has been very helpful and was concerned that I was having this issue. Mine was really operator error as is usual in my case :-)
I really like this....its really well thought out. Its not one of those things where I would say "why didn't I think of that?"..... there's no way I would have come up with this. I can't imagine taking the time to figure this thing out like Menny did....However, I m glad he did. This looks great! [/quote]

I've spent the last two evenings putting everything together. I'm finally done, but I can't get the "trigger" to work. How did you get ahold of Menny to get his help? I'm sure he'd have some simple suggestions of things to try.
Message: Posted by: gamma105 (Nov 21, 2014 02:14AM)
I finally constructed the gimmick, took me 3 hours. I triple checked every single step, the gimmick works in hand, but it wont fire correctly in the box. I'd like to get some help on this as well, I'm feeling very frustrated right now.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 21, 2014 02:24AM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2014, Trevah Whateva wrote:
Here we go drstevemagic:

1. It took me about 20-25 mins minutes to make the gimmick but I was multi-tasking so I bet it could be done even quicker.


[/quote]

If that is true, you must have had some familiarity with it before you began construction, otherwise that must be a world's record for a first-timer.
For most people, I would guess a couple hours minimum, and even 3 or 4 wouldn't be unheard of I'm sure.
A LOT of pausing, rewinding, double checking, etc. as it needs to be pretty precise and if you mess up certain parts of it you might not be able to redo it, so you are going to want to take your time and make very certain you are doing it correctly.

It definitely is a Rube Goldberg type of apparatus.
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 21, 2014 03:01AM)
Nope, I'd never even seen the gimmick prior to assembling it and I'm no world record breaker or holder I assure you. I've spoken a quite a few people who were able to assemble the gimmick just as quickly.

I can see it taking longer if you watch the entire DVD from beginning to end but I really don't think that assembling it would take as much a 2-4 hours...that's a far stretch.

I'd suggest watching the assembly portion once before starting the process to familiarize yourself with what the end result will be. From there, it's pretty easy to go back and quickly get through the steps.

I for one love these types of things. I like the challenge. Magic is an art, and art is creation.

Wether it takes you 25 mins or a couple of hours as videoman states, it's a fun little project that leaves you feeling pretty satisfied at the end.

Enjoy the creative process!
Message: Posted by: dearwiseone (Nov 21, 2014 03:23PM)
Wow, lots of issues with this gimmick (see posts above). The gimmick will take much longer than 15-20 minutes (with multitasking) as indicated above, unless you're an engineer or super mechanically-inclined.

The idea is great, it looks wonderful if you can get it to work, but the gimmick is EXTREMELY COMPLICATED. This is the most intricate, difficult gimmick I've ever assembled for a magic effect. One wrong fold the the whole gimmick will not work (hence all the posts indicating problems with firing).

Also, the M%&*#$S did not come marked, as they indicate they are in the DVD. This leaves you to figure that out on your own. Hopefully you do it right!

Overall, a great effect (looks great on camera) but please be aware there is lots of time involved making and understanding the gimmick. The DVD did an okay job of walking through it all, it just takes watching it a few times.

I'd probably have recommended the effect come with the gimmick already assembled. If it only takes 15-20 minutes to assemble each one, they could easily include the gimmick already assembled.

Just my thoughts!
Message: Posted by: Fire Starter (Nov 21, 2014 03:48PM)
[quote]On Nov 21, 2014, dearwiseone wrote:
Wow, lots of issues with this gimmick (see posts above). The gimmick will take much longer than 15-20 minutes (with multitasking) as indicated above, unless you're an engineer or super mechanically-inclined.

The idea is great, it looks wonderful if you can get it to work, but the gimmick is EXTREMELY COMPLICATED. This is the most intricate, difficult gimmick I've ever assembled for a magic effect. One wrong fold the the whole gimmick will not work (hence all the posts indicating problems with firing).

Also, the M%&*#$S did not come marked, as they indicate they are in the DVD. This leaves you to figure that out on your own. Hopefully you do it right!

Overall, a great effect (looks great on camera) but please be aware there is lots of time involved making and understanding the gimmick. The DVD did an okay job of walking through it all, it just takes watching it a few times.

I'd probably have recommended the effect come with the gimmick already assembled. If it only takes 15-20 minutes to assemble each one, they could easily include the gimmick already assembled.

Just my thoughts! [/quote]
And very good thought's they are,sound's trueful and it is a shame a lot of effect's seem to sale now with a DIY theme to them,when some of us just can not get the art and craft bit right and end's up being a waste of money,i Know I have spent a fair bit of stuff only to have to put it together and it will not work,never seem to see the add's telling the buyer there is a some DIY involved,or I now look out for it to make sure,really do not know what is happening in L&G,all I see is stuff coming out ,folk having problems with faulty gimmick's and sending them back only to get another faulty one, or poor instruction on how to construct fiddly gimmick's.I do feel for people that have had to spend out,but it is post's like this that save others ,or gives them a good chance of making a better judgement on how they spend their money.I have seen a fair few on her of late that I really have wanted and I have watched the reveiew's come in and I beleive has saved me wasting a good £100.00 or so hopefully other's as well,let's hope all get sorted out and end up happy with their product's as I know on here there are some company's who will do the right thing.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 21, 2014 04:58PM)
You should definitely not go into this thinking it will take only 20 minutes or so, I feel that is totally misleading. This is certainly not something you can rush through, hence all the problems with them not working at first.
One poster said it took 3 hours, another said a couple evenings, and another said "a good chunk of time" (which sounds longer than 20 minutes to me.)

I view magic now like I do software or apps, stay away from version 1.0 and wait until they've had a chance to fix the bugs.
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 21, 2014 05:47PM)
I've been trying to do a one-handed shuffle for years and, for whatever reason, I just can't figure it out. Just because I can't do it, shouldn't imply that it's impossible.

With all due respect to those who's gimmicks took a while to assemble: Just because you weren't able to assemble it quickly doesn't mean it can't be done.

I agree with videoman about not going in to this thinking it will only take you 20 minutes. It might take you longer. And who knows, it might even take you less time! Regardless, time assembling the gimmick shouldn't play any role in why you should or shouldn't buy this one.
Message: Posted by: gamma105 (Nov 21, 2014 05:51PM)
[quote]On Nov 21, 2014, Trevah Whateva wrote:
Nope, I'd never even seen the gimmick prior to assembling it and I'm no world record breaker or holder I assure you. I've spoken a quite a few people who were able to assemble the gimmick just as quickly.

I can see it taking longer if you watch the entire DVD from beginning to end but I really don't think that assembling it would take as much a 2-4 hours...that's a far stretch.

I'd suggest watching the assembly portion once before starting the process to familiarize yourself with what the end result will be. From there, it's pretty easy to go back and quickly get through the steps.

I for one love these types of things. I like the challenge. Magic is an art, and art is creation.

Wether it takes you 25 mins or a couple of hours as videoman states, it's a fun little project that leaves you feeling pretty satisfied at the end.

Enjoy the creative process! [/quote]

It's not fun when it doesn't work after you spent $40 and 3 hours on it. And No one still hasn't offered any help regarding the firing problem. I recommend people to stay away from this until that problem is solved.
Message: Posted by: RCHRISTIAN (Nov 22, 2014 03:34PM)
This is my first post. Sealed arrived today. Construction, components and design/mechanics of the gimmick are both ingenious and promise to be complicated. James Bondian indeed! However, the video and spoken instructions for assembly are detailed & clear and should guide you thru the Arts and Crafts needed to complete the device clearly & easily. Trust me - many pauses and rewinds. I'd set aside an hour plus to get the job done....right. You will NOT want to do any of the steps sloppily or incorrectly. Materials appear to be a bit flimsy. Glitch on DVD with accidental cut-away to dollar bill gimmick already has been noted and, according to Penguin, a fix/download is available. Will post handling when there. Still in construction phase.
Message: Posted by: Leland (Nov 22, 2014 04:50PM)
Just received it and viewed the video.

This will not be easy but it will be worth the time and effort. For those that feel they cant put it together, sorry but something this good requires effort. Not sure why the gimmick was not already included, maybe price or maybe to weed out the ones that cant put the time into it. I for one would have paid the extra price for it already included but I do like a good project.

Put the time and effort into it and you'll be rewarded. It's this good.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Nov 22, 2014 05:46PM)
[quote]On Nov 22, 2014, Leland wrote:
For those that feel they cant put it together, sorry but something this good requires effort. [/quote]

No one said they can't put it together. the complaints were that they put it together... and it's not working properly.
Message: Posted by: Leland (Nov 23, 2014 06:28PM)
You may be right. I've done a lot of modeling in my past, so I had the knack to putting it together. It did take effort and I did have to tweak it to make it work. I did find the hardest part was that it was difficult to see it (those that own it will know what I mean). I'll practice it this week and hope to perform it this weekend at one of my events.

I can see this being one of my final effects since the reset up would take some time. I'll update later this week.
Message: Posted by: johndevacmaker (Nov 24, 2014 11:43AM)
Thanks for all the reviews so glad I didn't order this I hate DIY stuff
Message: Posted by: Trevah Whateva (Nov 24, 2014 02:24PM)
UPDATE::

Menny just sent us a troubleshooting guide which should really help those having a hard time getting their gimmicks to work smoothly. You'll find the PDF within your Penguin account.
Message: Posted by: Platt (Nov 25, 2014 02:27PM)
I bought this because I love this premise. I'll give Menny props for creating such a futuristic Maxwell Smart meets Bond device. Or at least for the instructions on how you can make such a device. So 10/10 points for creativity. But practicality? Of the few people who work so hard as to get it to work for them, I'll bet not a single one will be using this in 3 months. Smart thinking. But this is a comically long way to go for a simple penetration effect. For a split second I thought it might have been a joke and the explanation was something fun and simple. No such luck. For the stupidly simple, practical version of this try "Seal-a-Feign" from Justin Miller's Strolling Hands 2.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Nov 25, 2014 02:40PM)
[quote]On Nov 25, 2014, Platt wrote:
I bought this because I love this premise. I'll give Menny props for creating such a futuristic Maxwell Smart meets Bond device. Or at least for the instructions on how you can make such a device. So 10/10 points for creativity. But practicality? Of the few people who work so hard as to get it to work for them, I'll bet not a single one will be using this in 3 months. Smart thinking. But this is a comically long way to go for a simple penetration effect. For a split second I thought it might have been a joke and the explanation was something fun and simple. No such luck. For the stupidly simple, practical version of this try "Seal-a-Feign" from Justin Miller's Strolling Hands 2. [/quote]

I know, I kept thinking that surely there has got to be an easier way!
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Nov 26, 2014 01:46AM)
Why could it not just be sold already made up ?
Message: Posted by: dearwiseone (Nov 26, 2014 03:11AM)
It's assembled now, but still not working. Hmmm... I don't usually return magic, but this one might get returned. It's simply not working as advertised.
Message: Posted by: JollyGreenGiant (Nov 26, 2014 06:40PM)
Really wish this thing came assembled...
Message: Posted by: Shawn D (Nov 27, 2014 07:00PM)
Ask on Lets make a deal form if anyone wants to sell theirs already assembled. I sold mine assembled. Cheap
Message: Posted by: SlipperySnake (Nov 28, 2014 06:25PM)
[quote]On Nov 27, 2014, Shawn D wrote:
Ask on Lets make a deal form if anyone wants to sell theirs already assembled. I sold mine assembled. Cheap [/quote]

But did it work? Multiple posts stating they couldn't get it to do so...
Message: Posted by: dearwiseone (Dec 10, 2014 06:45PM)
Menny has kindly contacted me and is offering to help. I'll keep you posted on the progress!
Message: Posted by: Dapperdan (Dec 11, 2014 08:44AM)
[quote]On Dec 10, 2014, dearwiseone wrote:
Menny has kindly contacted me and is offering to help. I'll keep you posted on the progress! [/quote]

Dearwiseone: How were you able to connect with Manny? (If you don't want to share publicly, please PM me...
I am still having trouble with the firing mechanism itself. I am sure it's fixable by tweaking the "firing pin", but I have been unable to fix it and am hesitant to modify it myself. I am sure that Menny has faced this same issue and has an idea how to address. (Unfortunately, the PDF added on Penguin Magic did not help.)
Message: Posted by: Spicoli (Dec 11, 2014 04:30PM)
Any performance videos besides the trailer on this? For something being sold out before it was even released, I would of thought there'd be more noise about this...
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Dec 17, 2014 08:52PM)
My only pre order ever, and likely the last. On one hand this is amazing. It's about the coolest McGuyver like magic prop I've ever seen. I'm quite sure if you could build it correctly and get it to work, the results would be jaw dropping. On the other hand, I'll never actually make this. It's so incredibly convoluted and from the reviews of other owners it doesn't seem to be reliable enough to take the time to create it. Whoever said it would take twenty minutes is either a prodigy or just exaggerating. I wish they sold an assembled version. Incredibly clever and completely impractical but man that teaser video got me hook, line and sinker.
Message: Posted by: ArtIn (Dec 21, 2014 05:18PM)
I also cant get it to work properly. I fell in love with the wonderful thinking that went into this but I can't work around the problems. The first gimmick arrived broken and penguin fixed it really fast for me (thanks for that!!).

There is one part of the gimmick that really causes problems and is not durable at all in my opinion.
I wish it was build of metal and more stable. Money lost, I guess :(
Message: Posted by: they (Dec 23, 2014 08:18AM)
I'm having issues as well. I would love to see the troubleshooting guide and would be happy to send whatever proof is required to have someone send me the pdf.

BTW, my assembly took about 1.5 hours. I found the instructions on the DVD excellent and clear. I am fairly certain my gimmick has been constructed correctly, and the ancillary parts are also up to spec. I am leery of describing my exact problem on an open forum, but then again, I don't believe there is any way someone is going to crib this without buying it, given the complexity.
Message: Posted by: marco dra (Jan 23, 2015 03:21PM)
Hallo.
Sealed is fantastic! Possibles routines are amazing!
I'm a train modeler and I build from zero everithing,so when I read reviews about the difficulty to build I thake it like a challenge!
Dvd explaine very well but I take 3 hours snd gimmick don't work....i fix the problem in a couple of hours then the gimmick broke....
but I was in love with this routines!!!!!
So....i've rebuild the gimmick in photo etched non magnetic 0,3 mm metal,with same measures of menny's but "different"....more easy....but same "work"..... my gimmick work 100% times, I'm super happy!!!!
I like to contact manny but I don't found anything on line.....i've write to penguin but I don't know....
i want show him....looks very 007! I can produced it.... maybe!
please can sameone help me?
Tnx
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Jan 23, 2015 03:45PM)
Marco, Menny has an account here on the Café. do a user search for his name and you should be able to PM him.
Message: Posted by: Jan Schattling (May 22, 2015 09:41AM)
I just got mine today and it is amazing.
If I would be confident enought in my handyman skills, I am sure it would be one of my best tricks but as I always was all thumbs, I will never dare to build the gimick, because I am afrait to break or ruin it.
It will go right into my magic drawer as a "nice to have" item.
I had some problems with the DVD though.
When starting a new chapter the sound went off till I clicked on the progress bar.
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (May 22, 2015 09:58AM)
[quote]On May 22, 2015, Jan Schattling wrote:
I just got mine today and it is amazing.
If I would be confident enought in my handyman skills, I am sure it would be one of my best tricks but as I always was all thumbs, I will never dare to build the gimick, because I am afrait to break or ruin it.
It will go right into my magic drawer as a "nice to have" item.
I had some problems with the DVD though.
When starting a new chapter the sound went off till I clicked on the progress bar. [/quote]

Give it a go man! If it breaks then oh well but if you make it right you might get amazing mileage out of it
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Jan 21, 2016 11:20PM)
Sealed 2.0 is here.

http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/6658

I loved the concept of the effect, but the gimmick was so insanely difficult to put together, fragile and made of poor materials.

Thankfully 2.0 appears to have resolved those issues: Redesigned and improved gimmick with better materials, comes assembled ready for use and no refills.

Of course this all comes at more than double the price of the original, but it may be worth it for such a visual effect.

Curious to hear if anyone has seen the new gimmick and can comment on it.
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Jan 22, 2016 01:22AM)
It seems like there are a lot of 2.0 products out there now. IMHO, it would be nice for magic creators to offer discounts to people who bought 1.0.
Message: Posted by: marco dra (Jan 22, 2016 02:43AM)
Hallo
as you can see from my message last year I had redesigned and built a new gimmick entirely of metal.
menny I was immediately excited (many thanks to Penguin Magic that made possible our meeting!) and in recent months we have made some structural changes, we replaced the means of propulsion with a system that provides more 'power and does not need spare parts We refined the measures and tried various solutions.
the new gimmick is virtually forever and since the first version does not miss a beat!
I know I'm not the right person to say it ... but it is worthy of James Bond! It is gorgeous and you will be sad for not being able to show off your new toy to friends! ( it's the same for me ...!)
menny has made a new editing instructions which relate to the preparation that has been simplified without changing the versions of the trick, adding the possibility 'to use a packet of cigarettes instead of the cards.

It has been a pleasure working with mr. Lindenfeld and are thrilled that finally has come online and can not wait to read the new reviews!

if I can be useful for questions just ask
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Jan 22, 2016 02:47AM)
Throw away your prototype, lads. It's finally arrived, and at only 80 Bucks. :rotf:



visual effect.
• Redesigned & improved gimmick.
• Gimmick comes ready for use!
• High quality, long lasting & 100% reliable.
• Only one minute to set up!
• Fully self-contained.
• No refills!
• Use signed cards, coins, bills & more.
• Compatible with card deck & cigarette box.
• Cellophane & object are fully examinable
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Jan 22, 2016 04:28AM)
Lol, maybe if they give me a $40 credit for buying the unmakeable 1.0 prototype I'll upgrade to 2.0 :)
Message: Posted by: VMagical (Jan 22, 2016 11:07AM)
Yeah still have my prototype, still sitting in my magic drawer.
Message: Posted by: rosariorose9 (Jan 25, 2016 01:34PM)
[quote]On Jan 22, 2016, Slackerking wrote:
Lol, maybe if they give me a $40 credit for buying the unmakeable 1.0 prototype I'll upgrade to 2.0 :) [/quote]

Funny you should say that, as I just got an email from Penguin offering a $30 credit! Don't know, though, whether I'll take them up on that offer...
Message: Posted by: DVYRCKT (Jan 25, 2016 01:41PM)
I never post negative stuff on here. Now I will....

Why even bother making a "improved" gimmick?

here are my points
1. it's metal now, so heavier
2. your card box is still "dirty"
3. your deck is still sans a handful of cards

No matter the situation, your spectator will still want to see the box (you can choose not to give it to them) and or will assume there is something special about the box. Plus your fricking card deck is short a few!

I do apologize for the hate, the gimmick is cool and very james bond-ish if that's what you want?

- Davey
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Jan 25, 2016 02:48PM)
1. Unless you're using sleights, every magic trick is dirty. There's no such thing as real magic so there has to be a way to accomplish the illusion. That's what audience management skills are for. I don't understand why so many people complain about ending dirty. Learn a few switching skills and you won't have to worry about that. You can't be a real magician without those basic skills. Without them you're just a hobbyist like me. (Though I can switch so it's not that hard a skill to learn)m

2. There are thousands of card tricks you can do with an incomplete deck. It's only a handful. No one will know you're short.

3. Not sure if this is noticeably heavier or not but you're not giving them the box anyways, the heat is on the cellophane.

*** Penguin, now I don't know what to do. (I love Penguin, best customer service I've seen). The original was crazy clever just unmakeable. If this is already made and actually works it's a killer. What to do, just got burned on another effect that sounded too good to be true and was that I don't want to do it again.
Message: Posted by: KristoBall (Jan 26, 2016 08:07PM)
Slacker - out of curiosity - which effect burned you recently?
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Jan 26, 2016 10:49PM)
Change from Ellusionist, Pierce by Jibrizy Taylor and even worse Phantom by Peter Eggink. They all suck donkey balls 😂 Then it wasn't so much burned as I didn't listen to what the product was, so I bought Factory Blanks before there was a video or reviews as I thought it was something that it wasn't and when it came I was very disappointed. To be fair, I like most of the things I buy and I almost always wait until I hear reviews but a few of these got the better of my common sense.