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Topic: Busking & JiuJitsu
Message: Posted by: Stperformer (Jan 7, 2015 08:27PM)
Diplomacy, conflict resolution, and peacefully resolving any issues/disputes on the streets are my recommended actions for aggressive behavior by others.

However, on the very, rare occasion that someone is bent on a physical altercation......having the ability & confidence to take care of yourself on the street is of great advantage.

For this I very much recommend Jiu Jitsu, especially BJJ.

Strangely, just this confidence alone, is enough to ward off an attack. The potential attacker senses it....and suddenly is not so eager to 'get it on'.

But if you have to.....an armbar or the skill to get out of a headlock quickly can be a saver.

Message: Posted by: Mortimer Graves (Jan 9, 2015 04:15AM)
Alternately, you could simply carry a stun gun. You'd need to check your local laws and make sure it's all legal and so forth, of course.

Once they see the crackling electricity, most people just say they're sorry and walk away. If they touch you, it's their problem what to do when they come to with a cable tie around their wrists, fastened to a streetlight, soaked in their own cold pee.

Conflict resolution for the win, but if it comes down to it and you have to defend yourself, and you need your hands to make a living like most of us, why risk injuring yourself or others? Just fry the guy and walk away. Grappling with an attacker is just doing it the hard way.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Jan 9, 2015 04:33AM)
Or, in "my" day....just yell..HEY RUBE!
Message: Posted by: Mortimer Graves (Jan 9, 2015 04:53AM)
[quote]On Jan 9, 2015, Dick Oslund wrote:
Or, in "my" day....just yell..HEY RUBE! [/quote]


I had a guy pull a knife on me while I was performing on Bourbon Street once. I performed a miracle in response.

I raised my hand, said the magic words, "Oh, Mr. Officer!", and a pair of policemen appeared out of nowhere, as if by magic.

They then performed the Vanishing Knife-wielding Psychopath, to much applause.

It was actually the first time the cops had ever done anything nice for me. What was really awesome was that they were actually around when someone needed them! I thought I was about to die, and boom, there they were!

I tried thanking them, but they were too busy, so I just let that one go.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Pitts (Jan 9, 2015 12:21PM)
I busk as a ventriloquist and I'm in a good spot where there are people who would likely have my back in a bad situation. But just in case, I carry tools - ostensibly for quick repairs on my vent figure if needed - but honestly, the claw hammer is for security. But having the demeanor of a person who is willing and able to defend himself, as Stperformer mentions, is probably the best thing. People intuitively recognize confidence.
Message: Posted by: gallagher (Jan 9, 2015 03:37PM)
The hardest thing, I'm STILL trying to master,.. learn,
is to back down,.
and bow my head.

Jiujitsu, guns, knifes,..
I have four scars,.. a nice one across my chin.
Crooked fingers,.. great for a Piano players,.. not too mention a dreaming Sleight-of-Hand Artist.
A list of 'stories' in my Police file,..
I ALWAYS felt terrible when the day was over.

Sometimes, I was an emotional wreck for a week or two,..
And I had WON the fight!

Peoples DO smell confidence,
this is a good point.
But I say,
"the next step,..
is a step backwards."

,i just wish,..
i really really do,
that I could embed it in my genes.

Before each Show, I try to see the 'positive' possiblities in the moment,.
this is a great 'trick' for making 'magic moments';
this year, as a 'footnote' to my mental prep,
I'm going to tell myself,
"Bow. Back-up. Pack-up."
,and hope I won't need to.
Message: Posted by: Mortimer Graves (Jan 10, 2015 04:14AM)
Yeah, I've had my share of altercations, and I'm really getting too old for that sort of stuff.

A skinhead came up while I was sitting with my girlfriend at her setup last year, and called her "gypsy scum", and called me a "filthy jew". Then he spit on me and took a swing at me.

I hit him twice before he knew what was happening, and off comes his shirt, and he's covered in swastikas.

All I could think of while I kicked his backside all over the place was that I was going to jail, and how I should have just been a nice guy about it, but he spit on me and insulted my girl, and tried to hit me, so yeah. I was so afraid of seriously hurting him (I practice combat Taiji and Wing Chun for self-defense, and have for many years) that I just kept slapping his punches down and telling him we didn't have to fight, then I finally got fed up with it all and choked him out.

It was my worst day at work in a long time. I abhor violence, especially when someone forces me into it. But I hate bullies worse, so yeah.

When the cops came, I was sure I was about to be arrested and spend some time in jail, but the arresting officer (a black man) shook my hand and congratulated me for thwarting what was "obviously a hate crime". I was in shock; I'd never had a policeman congratulate me for beating someone up before.

When I asked what I should do if the guy got out and he came up and tried to fight me again, the officer who took my statement said, "duh, finish him off", and drove away laughing.

This was literally the most embarrassing and vindicating moment I've ever had as a busker. It was also the largest audience I've ever had in my life. Hundreds of people stopped to watch. I felt humiliated by it all, and was so upset that I didn't work that corner again for almost a year.

I just wish to god that people like him didn't have to start stuff with people like me. I'm really good at fighting, but I hate it with all of my heart. I'm not going to stand there and let someone beat me down in front of my woman, but I really wish I'd simply had a stun gun or something, and had ended it all more quickly and discreetly, preferably without anyone having to be hurt, even a racist sack of poop like that guy.
Message: Posted by: NYCTwister (Jan 10, 2015 04:39AM)
Good job Mortimer.

With a crowd like that you should have passed the hat.
Message: Posted by: Mortimer Graves (Jan 10, 2015 05:23AM)
I know, right? I kicked myself all the way home for not thinking of it.

I guess I felt I hadn't really given them a very good show.

If I hadn't been so scared of going to jail and leaving my girl to carry her setup and mine by herself, I'd have done what I used to do. I used to just sucker punch them and end it before they could finish their insulting sentence.

Of course, I also used to be called "Satan" by everyone who knew me, and I had no friends.

I guess it's a trade-off. I'm really way more mellow now, a much nicer guy than I used to be. *sigh*

What gets me is that I'm not even Jewish, and he took issue with me for being Jewish! Sure, I have some heritage there, but I wasn't raised in that faith. I guess it didn't matter to him. He was going by ethnic appearance, I suppose.

But yeah, I'm getting way too old for the fighting crap. I should just learn how to do the old Jedi mind trick. "This is not the fight you seek." That would be great. I like peace, it's way more peaceful.
Message: Posted by: Aus (Jan 11, 2015 02:11AM)
Just a point with BJJ (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) or any fighting art for that matter is you need to test yourself under pressure to make sure that when you are required to implement it that you know you can perform it under pressure. The reason I say that is it's totally different to learn in your dojo (school) which is a controlled environment and geared towards learning then a guy who is determined to knock your block off. To some degree sports Jiu Jitsu is good for this or having rolling sessions with class mates since this closely simulates the uncooperative nature you will come across and have to overcome in your opponent in a real fight.

However sports Jiu Jitsu is different to self defense Jiu Jitsu and is one question you should ask your school in whether they make that same distinction themselves.

If all that seems to much work for something that has the rare occurrence of happening then simply carrying a weapon for self protection is much easier and simpler and makes more sense.


Message: Posted by: NYCTwister (Jan 11, 2015 07:46AM)
[quote]On Jan 11, 2015, Aus wrote:
Just a point with BJJ (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) or any fighting art for that matter is you need to test yourself under pressure to make sure that when you are required to implement it that you know you can perform it under pressure. The reason I say that is it's totally different to learn in your dojo (school) which is a controlled environment and geared towards learning then a guy who is determined to knock your block off. To some degree sports Jiu Jitsu is good for this or having rolling sessions with class mates since this closely simulates the uncooperative nature you will come across and have to overcome in your opponent in a real fight.

However sports Jiu Jitsu is different to self defense Jiu Jitsu and is one question you should ask your school in whether they make that same distinction themselves.

If all that seems to much work for something that has the rare occurrence of happening then simply carrying a weapon for self protection is much easier and simpler and makes more sense.


Aus [/quote]

Great points Aus.

My son is taking MMA classes and a lot of what he's learning has value in the real world.
However a lot of it doesn't. It suffers from what Bruce Lee called "fancy play" syndrome, and could actually result in the opposite of what it was intended to do. In a real fight where you may be crippled or killed the most direct, albeit brutal, technique should be your first thought.
In my son's case when I spar with him, when I point out the openings he presents for a strike to the eyes, throat or knees he's taken aback. At heart he's not a violent person so such ideas are abhorrent to him. While this is a testament to the goodness in him, in the real world it could prove to be his undoing.
As a parent I can only hope he never has to deal with such a situation.

In Mortimer's case he knew that hand to hand the other guy posed no real threat. In the middle of the fight had the guy pulled out a hidden knife or gun he would have wished he'd ended the fight with the first blow.
Since he's a good person who doesn't want to harm anyone he chose a different path. He's lucky that it ended so well.
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Jan 11, 2015 09:20AM)
I have a slap jack that I carry. Only had to use it once. I was told by a cop that a head shot could kill the person so I hit the guy in the ribs with it. Ended the fight instantly and we both walked away from it.
Message: Posted by: Mortimer Graves (Jan 11, 2015 09:43AM)
Oh, if in the middle of all of that he'd pulled a knife, in front of all of those people, and after all of that ridiculous dancing about, I'd probably have ended him.

Knife disarms are something I've spent a lot of practice on, and I'm pretty good at them.

The same with pistol disarms; guns are ranged weapons (and should be used as such), and if they're stupid enough to pull a gun while they're within reaching distance of their opponent, the last thing they're expecting is to have the gun taken away from them.

Unarmed, if they obviously don't know how to fight, I'm not going to go out of my way to hurt them, but if they make it clear that they wish to be seen as a threat to my life, then playtime's over, and I'll either cripple them or worse.

I'm a nice guy, but I'm not letting some jack-hole stick a gun in my face or stab me and get away with it. That's the sort of stuff I've trained in self-defense [i]for[/i]. Threatening my life means it's serious, and when it's that serious, there's no point in being nice any more. You end it then and there, and ruin them.
Message: Posted by: David Fillary (Jan 11, 2015 09:50AM)
You may be good at knife disarms when training, but it's a different story in real life.
The slightest mistake and you can have a bleeding artery.
I know top trained guys who would still avoid someone with a knife at all costs. It is too unpredictable and your life could be gone in an instant. No amount of training avoids that fact.
Message: Posted by: NYCTwister (Jan 11, 2015 10:59AM)
One of the problems is that these days any fight is a (potential) matter of life and death.
When I was younger if you got into a fight and lost, usually the other guy would stop after it was apparent that you were done.
Now they're just as likely to get on top and pound away, smash your head into the ground and just go off in general. YouTube is full of videos of real fights that end in actions that I can only call attempted murder.
There seems to be a growing sense of anger and frustration that's bottled up in society in general. When it explodes the results are horrifying.
Unfortunately giving the benefit of the doubt these days, even over something that's minor, may be the last thing you do.
Message: Posted by: Mortimer Graves (Jan 11, 2015 11:29AM)
If they obviously don't know how to fight, a knife disarm is not that difficult, and I've done it before. Yes, in real life. I've never gone for the knife, but for control of the whole arm. If they're looking like they know how to use it though, there's no way I'm letting them anywhere near me with it.

If they pull a knife right off the bat, I scream for help and stay away from them, I'm not embarrassed to scream for help.

For the record, this guy had a knife. He never took it out, because apparently he forgot he had it on him. Either that, or he was really just looking for a fistfight and hadn't considered killing me or anything. I found out later that he only picks fights when he's drunk. Go figure. I've seen him since then, and he seems to have gone out of his way to forget my face.

The way I figure it, he was drunk and angsty, and thought I was a wimp and an easy target. I always try to give off a friendly and "soft" vibe, so to speak, because it puts people at ease around me (and hides my skill, too, giving me the element of surprise); I don't carry myself like a fighter or anything, because when I used to do that, I got into a lot more fights with people who had something to prove.

When I surprised him by not being the softy he thought I was, he got scared, and the combination of rankled pride and sudden loss of confidence caused it to degenerate into the maudlin drama described in my earlier post, I think. I'm pretty sure he wasn't expecting anyone to fight back, and it threw him off his game.

But yeah, weapons are no joke. If I think someone knows how to use one, and they've got one out, I'm not afraid to call it quits and try to get myself and my loved ones to safety, screaming for help all the way.

I've seen some really bad stuff go down out there, and when it's really serious, and there's a way out of it that doesn't involve dying, I take it. A disarm is sometimes the way out that doesn't involve dying, is all I meant earlier. I hope that clarifies things a little.

Never let your pride or your feelings get in the way of your survival.
Message: Posted by: gallagher (Jan 11, 2015 01:51PM)
There ARE, some things worth standing for,...
There ARE, some things worth sitting for,..
a good crap.
There's little worth fighting for,...
There are only TWO things worth dying for,....
grey hairs and batik.

Message: Posted by: Mortimer Graves (Jan 11, 2015 11:27PM)
Batik... so true.

But it has to be really excellent batik.
Message: Posted by: David Fillary (Jan 12, 2015 12:41AM)
Yes, that's true. If you can judge the person in the situation, it may be appropriate. I've also dealt with a drunk guy wielding a knife and I just talked him out of it, but in that situation his anger was directed towards someone else. My training ensured I had his arm checked before I even noticed he had a knife, so I'm glad I didn't just go in for a throw!
Message: Posted by: Aus (Jan 12, 2015 03:01AM)
We in Australia have an interesting issue when it comes to self-defence.

In legal terms, Australians have a right of self-defence. While some states rely on the common law and others have it enshrined in statute, the right itself is never questioned. Moreover, juries consistently refuse to convict those charged with serious offences whenever self-defence is made out.

What we don’t have is the practical ability to exercise that right. Possessing any object specifically for the purpose of self-defence, lethal or non-lethal, is a criminal offence. There are many women, raped and/or murdered, who would have been liable to prosecution had they been carrying anything that might have saved them.

Those agile enough to retreat from an assailant can obviously do so if it is feasible, and it is lawful to use items at hand such as screwdrivers, kitchen knives and beer glasses. But for those unable to flee, insufficiently strong, or with no improvised weapon, there is no option for them but to rely on the police or — if they are lucky — bystanders, to protect them from ­assault or theft.

Prohibited self-defence items include pepper sprays, mace, clubs and personal Tasers. In some States carrying a pocketknife is ­illegal and even wearing a bulletproof vest is banned.

What this means is that self-defence is not a realistic option for most people, and especially not for the majority of women, elderly and disabled. We have become a nation of defenceless victims.

It wasn’t always this way. A couple of decades ago it was common for individuals faced with an imminent threat of violence to be ­encouraged by the police to apply for and be granted a permit to carry a pistol. Women pursued by violent ex-husbands, and of course jewellers and owners of gun shops, were among them.

Australia’s ban on practical self-defence sets it apart from most other countries. Almost none prohibit non-lethal means of self-­defence, while many permit ownership of firearms at home. A few (including most US states) allow the carriage of firearms for self-defence almost anywhere, subject to a permit system.

Australia’s prohibition on practical self-defence is relatively recent, emanating from the 1996 changes in firearms laws that followed the Port Arthur massacre. Not only were many types of firearm prohibited, but Australia embraced an international push to prohibit civilian ownership of firearms for self-defence.

This was driven by several factors. One was a desire to avoid America’s so-called ‘gun culture’. However, this seems to have broadened to include all means of self-defence. Another was a type of religious pacifism, of ‘turning the other cheek’. There was also a type of precautionary approach — average citizens may one day be struck with murderous tendencies. And then there were the perennial claims that resistance is futile and weapons will inevitably be turned against those using them. Underlying all these is the assumption that the government will always be there when we need it. Australians are probably unlikely to ­embrace the use of guns for self-defence except in special cases (a battered wife dealing with a murderous ex-husband, for example, or within our own homes).

But there is equally no sign that Australians ever agreed to or have accepted being rendered defenceless. In particular, women and the elderly do not believe that relying on the police to arrive in time will keep them safe. If asked, most would unequivocally demand the right to practical self-defence, at least with non-lethal means.

It should never have reached this stage. Only an authoritarian society would treat its people like helpless victims, with the government masquerading as some kind of guardian angel. Free societies have a strong emphasis on individual self-reliance, including responsibility for personal safety.


Message: Posted by: Mortimer Graves (Jan 12, 2015 06:21AM)
Disarming a population while keeping a well-armed military is one of the keys to maintaining authority. It's hard to rise up against an oppressive government when they're all better armed and have superior technology.

The results of this kind of thinking don't make sense to the people who are disarmed, as they'll wonder why they're not allowed to protect themselves, but from the standpoint of the people in charge, it makes perfect sense.

Easiest way to sell it to the people? "It's for your safety that we ask you all to disarm. Someone could use your weapon against you, so don't have it around."

It's ludicrous, even on the face of it, but look what's happened. people have bought into it. Fear is a great motivation, even the fear of fear can sell people on something that leaves them all vulnerable.
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Jan 12, 2015 05:58PM)
Aus, there is a saying in the U.S. taht is "I'd rather be tried by 12 men good & true than carried by 6."
Message: Posted by: gallagher (Jan 12, 2015 07:57PM)
I. personally feel safer in a place where the government monopolizes the weapons.
,as well as living in a place where I trust the government.
Luckily, I live in a world, where I can vote with my feet.
,....I really pity those who can't,... don't.
Freedom does not come from conquering fear,
it comes from understanding it,
....the ablity to control it.
Developing trust is a big part.
,....kinda like,...
, a good Show.
Message: Posted by: Aus (Jan 13, 2015 12:27AM)
Gallagher I have to admire your philosophical approach to life and your optimism but one thing magic has taught me in the last 20 plus years I've been doing it is that how things appear and how things actually are, are two different things. Now you might consider that a cynical view point to life but over the years I've seen it proven time and time again.

In the context of the laws in Australia towards self-deference that I referred to in my last post has essentially put the fox in the hen house. I say this because at the end of the day the reality of the situation is the law abiding citizens will follow the law and the criminals will not. If a person has harmful intentions he will set out to action those intentions whether the law says he can or can't.

I really don't have to sight many examples in Australia to prove my point since one of them has been international news with the Sydney Lindt Café siege where a psychologically unstable muslim extremist simperthiser decided to hold up a coffee shop with a shotgun which resulted in two people dead. Not long after that siege ended grieving turned into anger of how something like this could have happened, and as the questions were being asked the rap sheet of to shooter was being revealed.

Monis, together with a colleague undertook a campaign protesting against the presence of Australian troops in Afghanistan, by writing letters to the families of soldiers killed there, in which he called the soldiers murderers. He was also accessory before and after the fact to a murder, also been the target of Sexual assault charges, allegations of fabricating cleric status to name just a few. A joint review has been announced by the federal and state governments. It will investigate the handling of the siege, and how Monis "slipped through state and federal security and legal nets".

He was on their radar for over six months then for some reason he fell off it.

Now the point I make with all this gallagher is that if the government wont's to stop all practical means for us to defend ourselves then they better start doing better in defending the people on their behalf, because as it stands at there moment their doing a lousy job. Combine the above with lousy bail laws that are letting criminals with big rap sheets out into the public and we have recipe for disaster.


Message: Posted by: C.J.Magic (Jan 13, 2015 11:41AM)
I think it's to a street performers advantage to get a small, hidden video camera and live stream to a Youtube channel. Anyone that threatens you should be told they are being filmed and it will be given to the police. If they then get physical, you'll have proof that they started it it ( whether you can defend yourself or not ).

The streets can be dangerous. Crazy people carry weapons and use them, so it's best to avoid any altercation, even if you are a trained tough guy.
Message: Posted by: inhumaninferno (Jan 13, 2015 12:26PM)
Many non-crazy people carry weapons too.
Message: Posted by: Paddy (Jan 14, 2015 07:13PM)
C. J. Remember the psalm "As I walk thru the shadow of the valley of death I fear no evil for I am the meanest son of a b**ch in the valley." As long as they believe you are, it works. :firedevil: