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Topic: To Kill a Mockingbird
Message: Posted by: balducci (Feb 3, 2015 11:53AM)
For those who enjoyed the book, be aware that Harper Lee is about to publish a follow-up.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/books-and-media/to-kill-a-mockingbird-author-harper-lee-to-publish-new-novel/article22757817/
Message: Posted by: landmark (Feb 3, 2015 01:21PM)
Fifty years later. Hope it's not a trilogy?
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Feb 3, 2015 02:15PM)
Actually, the book to be released was completed back in the fifties but it was never released.

It features Scout as an adult woman.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Feb 3, 2015 02:16PM)
[quote]On Feb 3, 2015, landmark wrote:
Fifty years later. Hope it's not a trilogy? [/quote]

:)
Message: Posted by: Andrew Zuber (Feb 3, 2015 02:31PM)
I had lunch with John Badham a few weeks ago and his sister, Mary, played Scout in the movie. I'm totally pushing her to star in the next one.
Message: Posted by: ZachDavenport (Feb 3, 2015 03:09PM)
I can't say I'm to excited.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Feb 3, 2015 03:22PM)
[quote]On Feb 3, 2015, ZachDavenport wrote:
I can't say I'm to excited. [/quote]

I can, given that "To Kill a Mockingbird" remains one of the greatest American novels ever written.
Message: Posted by: LobowolfXXX (Feb 3, 2015 03:27PM)
[quote]On Feb 3, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]On Feb 3, 2015, ZachDavenport wrote:
I can't say I'm to excited. [/quote]

I can, given that "To Kill a Mockingbird" remains one of the greatest American novels ever written. [/quote]

+1
Message: Posted by: ZachDavenport (Feb 3, 2015 03:34PM)
I know it's a classic, but I just never liked it. Just my opinion of course.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Feb 4, 2015 07:30AM)
[quote]On Feb 3, 2015, ZachDavenport wrote:
I know it's a classic, but I just never liked it. [/quote]

[youtube]6QU3fTj2df0[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: balducci (Feb 8, 2015 07:24PM)
Http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/09/books/harper-lee-lawyer-offers-more-details-on-discovery-of-go-set-a-watchman.html
Message: Posted by: landmark (Feb 9, 2015 09:46PM)
From Wikipedia:

In 1966, Lee wrote a letter to the editor in response to the attempts of a Richmond, Virginia, area school board to ban To Kill a Mockingbird as "immoral literature":
“ Recently I have received echoes down this way of the Hanover County School Board's activities, and what I've heard makes me wonder if any of its members can read.

Surely it is plain to the simplest intelligence that To Kill a Mockingbird spells out in words of seldom more than two syllables a code of honor and conduct, Christian in its ethic, that is the heritage of all Southerners. To hear that the novel is "immoral" has made me count the years between now and 1984, for I have yet to come across a better example of doublethink.

I feel, however, that the problem is one of illiteracy, not Marxism. Therefore I enclose a small contribution to the Beadle Bumble Fund that I hope will be used to enroll the Hanover County School Board in any first grade of its choice.[6]
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Feb 9, 2015 10:24PM)
The tone of that letter, which certainly made me smile, made me wonder if Capote had a hand in its authorship.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Feb 9, 2015 10:55PM)
Http://blog.al.com/live/2012/04/harper_lee_did_she_or_didnt_sh_1.html
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Feb 10, 2015 03:00AM)
Yes, I was referencing that rumour a little - having read everything Capote ever wrote - much of it more than once, I've never thought he wrote Mockingbird.

He writes extraordinarily well but he can't help himself with the !@#$%iness - no matter how subtle and how well hidden - it's always there.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Feb 12, 2015 02:16PM)
I understand that Harper Lee helped Capote with "In Cold Blood."
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Feb 12, 2015 11:14PM)
[quote]On Feb 3, 2015, ZachDavenport wrote:
I know it's a classic, but I just never liked it. Just my opinion of course. [/quote]

Which you're allowed. My kid got it ("Mockingbird") assigned to him for English. He couldn't get through it.
My kid is perfectly capable of reading, btw, he just doesn't seem to be able to follow "dialect" literature.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Jul 10, 2015 06:26PM)
After reading the NY Times review of "Go Set a Watchman", I suspect a lot of people are going to be a bit disappointed in Harper Lee's first book.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/11/books/review-harper-lees-go-set-a-watchman-gives-atticus-finch-a-dark-side.html?ref=arts&_r=0

"Shockingly, in Ms. Lee’s long-awaited novel, “Go Set a Watchman” (due out Tuesday), Atticus is a racist who once attended a Klan meeting, who says things like “the Negroes down here are still in their childhood as a people.” Or asks his daughter: “Do you want Negroes by the carload in our schools and churches and theaters? Do you want them in our world?”"
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Jul 10, 2015 09:56PM)
Which may be why she never published it.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jul 10, 2015 11:37PM)
[quote]On Jul 10, 2015, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:
Which may be why she never published it. [/quote]
She tried to publish it. It was rejected. She was told to try again. Her follow up was published, and I guess that sort of ruled out publishing her earlier novel due to the contradictions. At least until she died and her estate decided to publish.
Message: Posted by: MaxfieldsMagic (Jul 11, 2015 12:37AM)
Yes, but once she had the "star power" to have it published despite the earlier rejection, it seems that she chose not to. Perhaps the creator's decision should have been respected by her estate.
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Jul 11, 2015 05:27AM)
She's still alive isn't she?

And she chose to publish it.

I saw some people from her home town on television a couple of nights ago - they visited with her recently and she still has all her marbles, and wants the book published, according to them.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Jul 11, 2015 06:27AM)
I had the impression this book was written before Mockingbird," but am not sure now.

A quick search doesn't clarify. Was it rewritten or edited? Lazy this morning -- hope someone knows.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Jul 11, 2015 06:52AM)
My wife answered the question. This is not a "sequel" as hyped a sit was written before 'Mockingbird" at the request of Harper Lee's publisher.

Apparently, the contrast of few is part of the vitality of the book.

Remember that Mockingbird was though the eys of a six year old girl with hero worhsip.

To find that her father's views seem different 20 year later does not mean they have changed, only that her perceptions have changed.

I look forward to reading it when the price comes down -- just to see how much of the dialogue is just a father trying to prepare his daughter for the world of the 50's.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jul 11, 2015 09:12AM)
[quote]On Jul 11, 2015, Destiny wrote:
She's still alive isn't she?

And she chose to publish it.
[/quote]
You're correct! My bad.

I don't know what I was thinking above. Let me try again ...

She tried to publish it. It was rejected. She was told to try again. Her follow up was published. Perhaps that sort of ruled out publishing her earlier novel then at the time due to the contradictions in the two books. Then she lost the manuscript (according to the NYTimes article and others) until her lawyer rediscovered it amongst some old files.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Jul 11, 2015 02:08PM)
[quote]On Jul 11, 2015, funsway wrote:
My wife answered the question. This is not a "sequel" as hyped a sit was written before 'Mockingbird" at the request of Harper Lee's publisher.

Apparently, the contrast of few is part of the vitality of the book.

... [/quote]

I'm not sure what you're saying possibly because of some typos?

Anyway, I haven't seen it hyped as a "sequel".

Go Set A Watchman was written first and submitted. The publisher made suggestions for changes which is what caused her to write To Kill a Mockingbird.

So, in some ways, it's kind of the same story told from different perspectives. (I realize the changes are too dramatic to really call it the same story but Mockingbird originated with Watchman.)
Message: Posted by: funsway (Jul 11, 2015 02:45PM)
Two of the first items provided by Google used the word "sequel." It takes a while for my hands to work in the morning, sorry.

This is OK, I guess, since the story takes place 20 years later, but the idea of "sequel" prompted the post above about a trilogy.

I think there is a desire to sell this book as "a new release" in the same way the latest HP book has hyped.

Some blurb on TV also referred to "the book that will beat out Harry Potter"

I obviously agree with your appraisal of the stories, excited as to how people's view of an event changes over time.

But then, it must have been the publisher who was farsighted.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Jul 11, 2015 07:51PM)
I never thought TKAM was a very good book. It's an Emperor's clothes thing; if you disagree, somehow you are an uneducated buffoon. I think the eggheads all agree for fear that stating the obvious means something must be wrong with them, since everyone else seems to see the clothing ..er, I mean the "masterpiece".

I suspect that Harper Lee knows it, since she never again tried to write a book. Smart move. Why take a chance at being seen a fraud?
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jul 11, 2015 08:10PM)
Whatever. It remains one of the best selling and most highly regarded American novels of all time. And there aren't anywhere enough "eggheads"(to quote your condescending pejorative) to account for that.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Jul 11, 2015 08:28PM)
It wasn't a condescending pejorative. It's a common slang term for an intellectual.

I suspect part (most) of those sales numbers is because it's commonly required reading in schools, not by choice.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 11, 2015 08:40PM)
I haven't read it since high school. It'd be interesting to read it again now and see if it holds up.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jul 11, 2015 08:40PM)
Why do you suppose it's commonly required reading in schools?
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jul 11, 2015 08:42PM)
[quote]On Jul 11, 2015, Starrpower wrote:

It wasn't a condescending pejorative. It's a common slang term for an intellectual.
[/quote]
Common slang, but also a common condescending pejorative. Unless you find these descriptions / definitions flattering:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/egghead

"a highly educated person who may not know much about real life"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egghead

"In the American English slang, egghead is an anti-intellectual epithet used to refer to intellectuals or people considered too out-of-touch with ordinary people and too lacking in realism, common sense, virility, etc. on account of their intellectual interests. It was part of a widespread anti-elitist social movement ..."
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jul 11, 2015 08:43PM)
Jack- I read it again last December during the week I was performing at the Castle. It was actually far better than I thought when I first read it in high school. One of the best books I've ever read, in fact.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jul 11, 2015 08:46PM)
Balducci-

Apparently only eggheads use dictionaries and care about the meaning and nuances of words. :eek:
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jul 11, 2015 08:49PM)
[quote]On Jul 11, 2015, Starrpower wrote:

I suspect part (most) of those sales numbers is because it's commonly required reading in schools, not by choice. [/quote]
TKAM was published on July 11, 1960.

Reader's Digest Condensed Books chose the book for reprinting almost immediately, and it appeared there also in summer of 1960.

That is what gave it its initial wide readership. It was basically recognized immediately as a popular modern classic.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jul 11, 2015 08:50PM)
[quote]On Jul 11, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Balducci-

Apparently only eggheads use dictionaries and care about the meaning and nuances of words. :eek: [/quote]
Honestly, I chuckled at Starrpower referring to anyone else as an 'egghead'. :)
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jul 11, 2015 08:53PM)
LOL!
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Jul 11, 2015 09:21PM)
Yes, balducci, that's what I said. Anyone but me is an egghead. All the 7 billion people on planet Earth. Those were almost my exact words, in fact.

It makes me wonder how you interpret posts by other people.
Message: Posted by: balducci (Jul 11, 2015 09:25PM)
Talk about a thin shell!
Message: Posted by: funsway (Jul 12, 2015 02:23AM)
I wish that Starrpower's view was correct -- at least that all 7 billion people were intellectuals, and not just in comparison with him.

A few years ago I would have been disturbed by the earlier comments that TKAM wasn't appreciated by school kids because of "dialect."

Now I am just glad they still teach reading in schools at all. Maybe this new book will have pictures.

I will write off Starrpower's comments as a poor attempt at humor and go find a book. Little indication of "intellectual" on TV for sure.

Turn on the radio and hear Taylor Swift. Now that is intellectual! Think I will just go back to bed. Mental indigestion.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jul 12, 2015 04:34AM)
[quote]On Jul 11, 2015, balducci wrote:
Talk about a thin shell! [/quote]

I think he totally missed the joke.
Message: Posted by: Ray Tupper. (Jul 12, 2015 09:03AM)
It went ova his head.
Message: Posted by: Kabbalah (Jul 12, 2015 09:16AM)
Some real yolksters here.
Message: Posted by: Destiny (Jul 12, 2015 09:32AM)
I read it years ago, and not being American, for me it was just a story, and I enjoyed it immensely.

I can see with hindsight, and only because I read it somewhere - I didn't think of it myself, why whites like it more than blacks, but I still think it's a great read.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jul 12, 2015 11:20AM)
[quote]On Jul 12, 2015, Ray Tupper. wrote:
It went ova his head. [/quote]

I wonder if he thinks the Chrome Dome is a football stadium? :eek:
Message: Posted by: The Hermit (Jul 12, 2015 11:22AM)
A recent poll voted it the best novel of all time. But, then again, they voted Da Vinci Code as #5.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2138827/To-Kill-a-Mockingbird-voted-Greatest-Novel-Of-All-Time.html
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Jul 12, 2015 11:27AM)
[quote]On Jul 12, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]On Jul 12, 2015, Ray Tupper. wrote:
It went ova his head.[/quote]
I wonder if he thinks the Chrome Dome is a football stadium? :eek: [/quote]
It a cathedral, isn't it?
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jul 12, 2015 01:25PM)
[quote]On Jul 12, 2015, The Hermit wrote:
A recent poll voted it the best novel of all time. But, then again, they voted Da Vinci Code as #5.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2138827/To-Kill-a-Mockingbird-voted-Greatest-Novel-Of-All-Time.html [/quote]

It's really not unusual to see books like the Da Vinci Code on lists like that. It won't be on them after another decade. The ones that stand out to me are books that have stood the test of time. The fact that Mockingbird was released fifty-five years ago and is still polling at number one is a good example.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Jul 12, 2015 02:02PM)
If an idea is repeatedly confirmed by eggheads over time,
is the result a mental omelet or a soulful souffle'?
Message: Posted by: Randwill (Jul 12, 2015 02:17PM)
Dialect? Some of my favorite reading is the old Pogo strips by Walt Kelly. I have several collections. His use of southern dialects (and different typefaces, all hand lettered) to define his characters is just part of what makes this classic strip so wonderful.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Jul 13, 2015 09:21PM)
[quote]On Feb 3, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]On Feb 3, 2015, ZachDavenport wrote:
I can't say I'm to excited. [/quote]

I can, given that "To Kill a Mockingbird" remains one of the greatest American novels ever written. [/quote]

My kid, who reads quite a bit, was unable to get past the "dialect" writing.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jul 13, 2015 10:39PM)
Respectfully, Ed, what does that have to do with the fact that the book is considered by many to be the greatest American novel ever written?

Some people can't get through "Huckleberry Finn" for the same reason, but that doesn't diminish its importance in American literature.
Message: Posted by: The Hermit (Jul 14, 2015 04:45PM)
[quote]On Jul 13, 2015, ed rhodes wrote:
[quote]On Feb 3, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]On Feb 3, 2015, ZachDavenport wrote:
I can't say I'm to excited. [/quote]

I can, given that "To Kill a Mockingbird" remains one of the greatest American novels ever written. [/quote]

My kid, who reads quite a bit, was unable to get past the "dialect" writing. [/quote]

Wait till he has to read Beowulf
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Jul 14, 2015 04:56PM)
[quote]On Jul 13, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Respectfully, Ed, what does that have to do with the fact that the book is considered by many to be the greatest American novel ever written?

Some people can't get through "Huckleberry Finn" for the same reason, but that doesn't diminish its importance in American literature. [/quote]

Oh, I didn't mean to imply the novel was bad. It certainly is a great novel... for some people, it's a great novel that's very hard to read.

I read "Tom Sawyer" several times, couldn't get past Chapter Two of "Huckleberry Finn."
Message: Posted by: funsway (Jul 15, 2015 05:13AM)
My early morning thought is, "Why is 'hard to read' a reason not to continue?" Not being judgmental, just musing on why some students today refuse to do assignments.

Yes, an adult might just want an hour of quiet, semi-mindless diversion. That is why Condensed Books are so popular. You might start a book and not continue because --
the print is too small, the hero is offensive, the grammar is terrible, or it contains dialect. etc.

But, the process of learning/instruction requires assignments that are difficult. Books are not assigned reading because they are "popular."

Consider that TKAM is assigned because it forces the student to deal with dialect, consider racial issues for the viewpoint of a six year old, and experience life back in the Depression years --
maybe even to question, "Why this book popular," or "Wouldn't Atticus be arrested for child abuse today of he let his kid play in a neighbor's yard or walk home from school alone?"

Regardless, no student has the right to say, "i won't finish this assignment because it is hard to do." No multiple choice questions about the book either. Write some original thoughts.

oops, strike the above comments. I forgot that schooling today isn't about getting educated, it is about passing a test and getting a Certificate.

Well, back to wading though Text Messages. Tough work with so much dialect!
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 15, 2015 06:21AM)
[quote] I forgot that schooling today isn't about getting educated, it is about passing a test and getting a Certificate.
[/quote]
Really, Ken, I get that this is just a magic board, and that we're all just throwing the bull around, and things are different than they once were, but as a teacher I find even casual comments like this kind of unhelpful. It puts forward a one-sided version of education that simply is not true. I'm in public schools many times a week, and I see excellent teaching and learning going on every day. Yes, there's plenty wrong, but there's also plenty right, and I don't think that that message gets out enough.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Jul 15, 2015 06:24AM)
Just a few musings of my own, in random order:

1. I consider the word "intellectual" to be pejorative. I've never come up with a replacement, though. I myself usually refer to people who are well-educated and good at thinking as "serious", as in, "she's a serious thinker". But this is inadequate, I know.

2. #1 reminds me of a discussion a while back that we had about "sophistry". I think "intellectuals" are sophists.

3. I have said it many times: intelligence is over-rated. I could care less what someone's IQ is. Are they a good person? Are they honest? Do they keep their word? Can they do their job competently? Can I trust them? Do I care about them? Do I want to have a beer with them?

4. Regarding the book: there are two books I have read in my life with a bit of incredulity: To Kill a Mockingbird and the Diary of Anne Frank. Both were written by young women with gigantic gifts. Both seem to reflect a seriousness beyond their years. Both are, to put it simply, quite unbelievable as the products of young people. And yet they are real, and they are astonishing. They reflect talent beyond the norm. They are beautiful pieces of work. They make us think, re-think, re-evaluate ourselves and others and the cultures we live in. They are [i][b]ART[/i][/b] (whatever that is).

5. Regarding "hard to read". The most influential books in my life were hard to read.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 15, 2015 07:31PM)
[quote]On Feb 3, 2015, landmark wrote:
Fifty years later. Hope it's not a trilogy? [/quote]

It may be! The lawyer who found the prequel says there is part of another manuscript with her papers.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/reply.php?topic=578590&forum=32&post=8596176"e=1
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Jul 16, 2015 03:26PM)
[quote]On Jul 15, 2015, stoneunhinged wrote:

Both were written by young women with gigantic...

[/quote]

I was smiling during the moment when my eyes left the last word on the line to move to the left and pick up the rest of the sentence on the line below :P
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Dec 28, 2020 10:13PM)
Hahaha! I just read this 5 years later. So much hate was bouncing around this board. I remember why I left. I hope things have settled down since then.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 29, 2020 08:56AM)
Well, you are back just time for us to rub your head, see into the future and make some new year predictions. :)
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Jan 4, 2021 07:09PM)
[quote]On Jul 13, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
Respectfully, Ed, what does that have to do with the fact that the book is considered by many to be the greatest American novel ever written?

Some people can't get through "Huckleberry Finn" for the same reason, but that doesn't diminish its importance in American literature. [/quote]


Granted. I'm just presenting a contrary opinion.

(And I loved "Tom Sawyer" as a kid... but couldn't get through "Huckleberry Finn." Go figure.)
Message: Posted by: Josh Riel (Jan 4, 2021 07:29PM)
[quote]On Dec 28, 2020, Starrpower wrote:
Hahaha! I just read this 5 years later. So much hate was bouncing around this board. I remember why I left. I hope things have settled down since then. [/quote]

Yeah dude, the Internet has totally changed!
No one brings up Nazis in a discussion of sugar content in turnips and everyone really tries to get to the heart of a controversy through studied disputation and education!
Message: Posted by: ringmaster (Feb 2, 2021 12:54PM)
A "young adult" novel is considered the best America can do ?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Feb 25, 2021 05:39PM)
[quote]On Feb 2, 2021, ringmaster wrote:
A "young adult" novel is considered the best America can do ? [/quote]Lowest common denominator in "literature" of our time (window shopping, mouse driven, fingers on the screen...) ;)

Betty or Wilma? The Cat in the Hat or Green Eggs and Ham?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Feb 25, 2021 07:09PM)
The moral questions in Huck Finn and the accepted answers in TKAM are still relevant.