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Topic: The "well regulated militia" again.
Message: Posted by: Randwill (Feb 12, 2015 01:39PM)
Another member of America's well regulated militia has ended the lives of three young college students (perhaps) because of a parking space dispute.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/suspect-in-chapel-hill-killings-described-as-troublemaker-obsessed-with-parking/ar-AA9jhSw
Message: Posted by: Kabbalah (Feb 12, 2015 01:59PM)
And, this has what, exactly, to do with the 2nd amendment?
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Feb 12, 2015 02:13PM)
From the article:

[quote]He also describes himself as a Second Amendment rights advocate and was licensed to carry a concealed firearm. He posted an image of his loaded revolver three weeks before the shooting.[/quote]

He also regularly wore his gun on his hip when warning neighbors not to park in certain spaces. Apparently, he believed that the Second Amendment rights he advocated also permitted intimidating people, and, failing that, shooting them.
Message: Posted by: Kabbalah (Feb 12, 2015 02:43PM)
Again, what does this one “gun-toting liberal” nut have to do with the 2nd amendment?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 12, 2015 02:55PM)
The second amendment has nothing to do with breaking the law.

But oh well it advanced an anti gun message so go ahead and use it.
Message: Posted by: Randwill (Feb 12, 2015 03:10PM)
If we see that members of the well regulated militia are frequently breaking the law with the result being the death of innocent men, women and children, how well is the militia being regulated?
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Feb 12, 2015 03:13PM)
If you want to regulate something, try spending a little more time and effort on the 99.9% of other murderers in the population that result in the death of innocent men, women and children. It's always good to focus your efforts on where you'll get the most bang for your buck.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 12, 2015 03:15PM)
Well do we use that logic with criminals regularly getting away with murder and such on a technicality only to kill and rape again? No. You only have an anti gun agenda to push randwill.
Message: Posted by: Kabbalah (Feb 12, 2015 03:50PM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Randwill wrote:
If we see that members of the well regulated militia are frequently breaking the law with the result being the death of innocent men, women and children, [b]how well is the militia being regulated[/b]? [/quote]

I suggest you search for the meaning of *well regulated* at the time of the establishment of the Constitution.
Message: Posted by: Ian McColl (Feb 12, 2015 04:10PM)
Why not, as everyone does with these stories, read them, pull them part, discuss them, makes claims and counter claims, pound your cheats and remember that some old slave owners gave you rights and all men are equal.

TO KILL people,
Message: Posted by: Devious (Feb 12, 2015 04:10PM)
I faced this psycho down not too long ago. He used
to date a neighbor when I was stationed in Arizona.
He claimed an honorable service in The Marine Corps,
until I called him out on it.

He had been pretending to work for The Border Patrol
when I first met him.

I kept asking the media to check his military record
to no avail. I wasn't surprised to see that he took
a few lives before taking his own.

I kept a very watchful eye on him on behalf of
The Dept of Justice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._T._Ready

[youtube]wXxruHdZG9A[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: Randwill (Feb 12, 2015 04:35PM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Kabbalah wrote:
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Randwill wrote:
If we see that members of the well regulated militia are frequently breaking the law with the result being the death of innocent men, women and children, [b]how well is the militia being regulated[/b]? [/quote]

I suggest you search for the meaning of *well regulated* at the time of the establishment of the Constitution. [/quote]
Do you see any value in updating the language to make it more applicable to present day?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 12, 2015 05:17PM)
Do you see any value in updating the 4th or 1st or 6th amendments?

You open the door to ALL of them being mangled beyond recognition. Personally I think it is a terrible idea.
Message: Posted by: Kabbalah (Feb 12, 2015 05:54PM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Randwill wrote:
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Kabbalah wrote:
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Randwill wrote:
If we see that members of the well regulated militia are frequently breaking the law with the result being the death of innocent men, women and children, [b]how well is the militia being regulated[/b]? [/quote]

I suggest you search for the meaning of *well regulated* at the time of the establishment of the Constitution. [/quote]
Do you see any value in updating the language to make it more applicable to present day? [/quote]

No.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Feb 12, 2015 06:52PM)
Neither do I.
Message: Posted by: Mystification (Feb 13, 2015 06:55AM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Randwill wrote:
If we see that members of the well regulated militia are frequently breaking the law with the result being the death of innocent men, women and children, how well is the militia being regulated? [/quote]

I can show you a lot of situations in the last year where police officers abused their power and it resulted in the death of innocent men, women and children. The way you think, we should disarm the police.
Message: Posted by: Ian McColl (Feb 13, 2015 10:30PM)
Has Slim seen this?
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 13, 2015 11:24PM)
If only the three young college students had been armed. The fact that they was not is a powerful comment on the moral degeneracy of America.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Feb 14, 2015 12:06AM)
Why should this murderer receive a stiffer sentence than if he'd slaughtered my daughter? If he killed my daughter because she had blond hair, he'd get a lighter sentence than if she believed in Sharia Law....
All Murder is a HATE CRIME!!!!
This Hate crime is BS .... Murder is murder!!!!!
Message: Posted by: Ian McColl (Feb 14, 2015 12:10AM)
[quote]On Feb 14, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Why should this murderer receive a stiffer sentence than if he'd slaughtered my daughter? If he killed my daughter because she had blond hair, he'd get a lighter sentence than if she believed in Sharia Law....
All Murder is a HATE CRIME!!!!
This Hate crime is BS .... Murder is murder!!!!! [/quote]

Slim, do you think he should be sentenced to death??
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Feb 14, 2015 12:42AM)
[quote]On Feb 14, 2015, Ian McColl wrote:
[quote]On Feb 14, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Why should this murderer receive a stiffer sentence than if he'd slaughtered my daughter? If he killed my daughter because she had blond hair, he'd get a lighter sentence than if she believed in Sharia Law....
All Murder is a HATE CRIME!!!!
This Hate crime is BS .... Murder is murder!!!!! [/quote]

Slim, do you think he should be sentenced to death?? [/quote]
He deserves a fair trial.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Feb 14, 2015 12:50AM)
Not surprised that Slim thinks hate crimes are BS since he is probably not at all familiar with hate crime laws.
Message: Posted by: Ian McColl (Feb 14, 2015 12:52AM)
[quote]On Feb 14, 2015, Slim King wrote:
[quote]On Feb 14, 2015, Ian McColl wrote:
[quote]On Feb 14, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Why should this murderer receive a stiffer sentence than if he'd slaughtered my daughter? If he killed my daughter because she had blond hair, he'd get a lighter sentence than if she believed in Sharia Law....
All Murder is a HATE CRIME!!!!
This Hate crime is BS .... Murder is murder!!!!! [/quote]

Slim, do you think he should be sentenced to death?? [/quote]
He deserves a fair trial. [/quote]

But then kill him ???? lynching comes to mind...
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Feb 14, 2015 12:54AM)
For Slim's education in the law:

Murder, by itself, is a STATE crime and is prosecuted by the state in which the crime occurred. The hate crime law under discussion here is FEDERAL and gives the US government the power to prosecute it separately.

Read the law for yourself:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/249
Message: Posted by: Ian McColl (Feb 14, 2015 01:04AM)
[quote]On Feb 14, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
For Slim's education in the law:

Murder, by itself, is a STATE crime and is prosecuted by the state in which the crime occurred. The hate crime law under discussion here is FEDERAL and gives the US government the power to prosecute it separately.

Read the law for yourself:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/249 [/quote]

and then you can kill em!!!!!!!
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Feb 14, 2015 01:36AM)
No. A conviction under the federal law, which you, too, obviously haven't read, carries a maximum penalty of life in prison.
Message: Posted by: Ian McColl (Feb 14, 2015 02:25AM)
That’s good because federal sanctioned death would be a murder by another name and justification.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Feb 14, 2015 05:46AM)
No. It wouldn't be murder. Murder is a legal term. By definition it means the UNLAWFUL killing of a human being. The death penalty is legal in many US states. (I'm as opposed to the death penalty as you apparently are. But it's not murder.)
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Feb 14, 2015 06:12AM)
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
Do you see any value in updating the 4th or 1st or 6th amendments?

You open the door to ALL of them being mangled beyond recognition. Personally I think it is a terrible idea. [/quote]

Well, no. We certainly could update the 2nd Amendment without opening up a door to changing all the Amendments.

I would see great value in changing the 2nd Amendment, but I would say two things: 1., it ain't ever gonna happen, no way, no how, uh uh; 2., I wouldn't trust anyone who disagreed with my position to draft the changes. Since I figure that some nearly 300 million Americans (not sure how many adults there are in the USA) would have the same view of #2, I would suggest that #1 is nearly certain.
Message: Posted by: Ian McColl (Feb 14, 2015 06:20AM)
[quote]On Feb 14, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
(I'm as opposed to the death penalty as you apparently are.) [/quote]
wow, something we agree on. cheers.
Message: Posted by: nums (Feb 17, 2015 11:22AM)
I have a serious question and my point will be stated after I get an answer, This is mostly directed at Ranwill but any educated answer will suffice.

How many magicians are in the U.S.? In your answer please say wether or not you are including some guy who knows the disappearing handkercheif or if your number is an educated guess based on whatever.I do not know the answer but would like an educated guess.

NOBODY
Message: Posted by: Randwill (Feb 17, 2015 11:48AM)
I have no idea or educated guess. How would you even define a magician for the purpose of coming up with a number?

But, so you can make your comparison, let's say there are a 100,000 magicians of some definition in the U.S.
Message: Posted by: nums (Feb 17, 2015 12:06PM)
Ok first let me say that I am accusing NO member of this forum of ANYTHING.

There are aprox. 120000000 that is, 120 million gun owners in the US. There were aprox. 38000 total murders in the last 3 years .. (last available statitic) including those done buy hands, knives, other blunt objuects but lets say they were all done by guns and each one was done by a different gun owner. That makes the murder rate per gun owner .03pct.

A quick google serch led to me finding 50 different names, when I stopped counting of people claiming to be magicians being convicted of "endangering" (I used this term to aviod the M word) children. Now to be fair some of these stories are 2-3 years old but a lot were more recent. making the rate per magician .05pct.

Why do you make it sound like all gun owners are likley to kill when it is more likley that a magician would endanger a child?

Are you leaving the magic business due to these numbers?

Please reread the first sentance of my post.

NOBODY
Message: Posted by: tommy (Feb 17, 2015 12:16PM)
I guess their websites could be counted.
Message: Posted by: Randwill (Feb 17, 2015 12:46PM)
[quote]On Feb 17, 2015, nums wrote:


Why do you make it sound like all gun owners are likley to kill when it is more likley that a magician would endanger a child?


NOBODY [/quote]
I don't understand the comparison unless there are some very dangerous kid show magician's props out there.

My meaning is that whenever restrictive gun legislation is discussed, opponents point to the second amendment as if they believe that it guarantees that ALL U.S. citizens should be allowed to purchase and own ALL guns.
Message: Posted by: Kabbalah (Feb 17, 2015 02:09PM)
[quote]On Feb 17, 2015, Randwill wrote:

My meaning is that whenever restrictive gun legislation is discussed, opponents point to the second amendment as if they believe that it guarantees that ALL U.S. citizens should be allowed to purchase and own ALL guns. [/quote]

All U.S. citizens that meet the age requirements and are not convicted criminals and those that have not been proven to be mentally defective, should be able to purchase and own any gun that they desire.

Let's not get facetious about nuclear weapons or missiles.
Message: Posted by: nums (Feb 17, 2015 04:01PM)
[quote]On Feb 17, 2015, Randwill wrote:
[quote]On Feb 17, 2015, nums wrote:


Why do you make it sound like all gun owners are likley to kill when it is more likley that a magician would endanger a child?


NOBODY [/quote]
I don't understand the comparison unless there are some very dangerous kid show magician's props out there. [/quote]

I am refering not to props but the magician themselves, charged with and convicted of child molestation, *** I did not want to use that word but guess I had to. Tp be clear I do not blame magic or props I blame the individual.


[/quote]My meaning is that whenever restrictive gun legislation is discussed, opponents point to the second amendment as if they believe that it guarantees that ALL U.S. citizens should be allowed to purchase and own ALL guns. [/quote]

To discuss the 2A one must discuss the COTUS main goal to beggin with. It is a document LIMITING the power of the Government. We know this because if the Congress passes a law it can be taken thru the courts systems to see if it is Constitutional.

The well regulated portion of the 2a is not the amendment it is the reason for the ammendment. The Bill Of Rights are directives and the first part of the ammendment is not one, the second part is.

As far as restrictive legislation, since the 2a is to allow the citizens to fight an overly opressive government to ensure we maintain the state of freedom, I beleive that we should be armed as well as the avg. soldier.

N
Message: Posted by: Ray Tupper. (Feb 17, 2015 04:42PM)
[quote]On Feb 17, 2015, nums wrote:
[quote]On Feb 17, 2015, Randwill wrote:
[quote]On Feb 17, 2015, nums wrote:


Why do you make it sound like all gun owners are likley to kill when it is more likley that a magician would endanger a child?


NOBODY [/quote]
I don't understand the comparison unless there are some very dangerous kid show magician's props out there. [/quote]

I am refering not to props but the magician themselves, charged with and convicted of child molestation, *** I did not want to use that word but guess I had to. Tp be clear I do not blame magic or props I blame the individual.


[/quote]My meaning is that whenever restrictive gun legislation is discussed, opponents point to the second amendment as if they believe that it guarantees that ALL U.S. citizens should be allowed to purchase and own ALL guns. [/quote]

To discuss the 2A one must discuss the COTUS main goal to beggin with. It is a document LIMITING the power of the Government. We know this because if the Congress passes a law it can be taken thru the courts systems to see if it is Constitutional.

The well regulated portion of the 2a is not the amendment it is the reason for the ammendment. The Bill Of Rights are directives and the first part of the ammendment is not one, the second part is.

As far as restrictive legislation, since the 2a is to allow the citizens to fight an overly opressive government to ensure we maintain the state of freedom, I beleive that we should be armed as well as the avg. soldier.

N [/quote]

So what you're saying is, there are more perverts amongst magicians than murderers amongst the whole population.
That figures, as Paedophiles tend to flock towards careers that involve close contact with minors.
You might as well divide up the number of gun owners, to the number of people with genitalia, as both may be needed to meet their ends.
Then again, I could be wrong.
Message: Posted by: nums (Feb 17, 2015 06:06PM)
[quote]On Feb 17, 2015, Ray Tupper. wrote:
N [/quote]

So what you're saying is, there are more perverts amongst magicians than murderers amongst the whole population.
That figures, as Paedophiles tend to flock towards careers that involve close contact with minors.
You might as well divide up the number of gun owners, to the number of people with genitalia, as both may be needed to meet their ends.
Then again, I could be wrong. [/quote]

No, what I am saying is there are more perverts amongst magicians than murderers amongst the gun owming population, I counted the gunowners as 120,000,000 the US population 300,000,000. You do not need genitaila to molest a child.

NOBODY
Message: Posted by: balducci (Mar 3, 2016 10:01AM)
Video of a well regulated militia stocking up in Texas:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/burglars-ransack-gun-store-in-massive-heist/2016/03/03/7bcce9b0-e104-11e5-8c00-8aa03741dced_video.html

:)
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Mar 3, 2016 03:38PM)
Nah, not the well regulated militia. That was just a bunch of protesters getting ready for their next Black Lives Matter event.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Mar 3, 2016 05:01PM)
We need a well-regulated militia to deal with this little Napoleon who is threatening to invade England with his immigrants if we don’t we surrender. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35712463
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Mar 3, 2016 06:46PM)
[quote]On Feb 13, 2015, Mystification wrote:
[quote]On Feb 12, 2015, Randwill wrote:
If we see that members of the well regulated militia are frequently breaking the law with the result being the death of innocent men, women and children, how well is the militia being regulated? [/quote]

I can show you a lot of situations in the last year where police officers abused their power and it resulted in the death of innocent men, women and children. The way you think, we should disarm the police. [/quote]

:) I like that reading of the amendment :) - self defense from the well armed militia.