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Topic: What Trick To Do After Hindu Shuffle Force?
Message: Posted by: KenRyan (Feb 21, 2015 10:42AM)
I know this may sound like an odd question. But remember that this is the "New to Magic" room:-P. I simply don't know enough to know what I don't know - or something like that. Anyway, I've been focusing more on coins than cards for the past few months, and an acquaintance (Facebook Friend) who is a magician said I should learn the Hindu Shuffle Force. Well, I've been working my way through Giobbi's works. I finished Introduction To Card Magic, and then I got his Card College 1. When my friend mentioned the HS force, I went to that section in CC1 and learned the shuffle first (of course), and then the force.

But I didn't realize that there was no actual trick here, but just how to know what card the spec picked. And if I were more experienced, I'm sure that the answer "well, just pick any method for revealing that you know what card the spec picked" would be helpful. But since I am still a newbie, I don't know the good ways of completing this. My gut says I should either just say "was your card the (fill in force card)?" Or just grab the card and show it and ask "is this your card?" But I don't know if that is appropriate or not.

Am I making any sense here?

Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks!

Ken
Message: Posted by: Jason Simonds (Feb 21, 2015 10:53AM)
Look into Chicago Opener. It's also known as Red Hot Momma.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Feb 21, 2015 11:11AM)
Try reading some good books on card magic that teach effects/routines.
Message: Posted by: KenRyan (Feb 21, 2015 11:20AM)
Thanks Jason. I will. Harry - your book is next on my list:-).

Cheers!

Ken
Message: Posted by: Kabbalah (Feb 21, 2015 02:29PM)
Never mind.
Message: Posted by: 55Hudson (Feb 21, 2015 02:50PM)
The Card College series is structured to be studied in order. The course has been developed so it builds upon previously learned skills. To jump around in the books, especially Vol 1 & 2 is a mistake and significantly reduces the value of the series.

The Hindu Shuffle is introduced, along with its force in chapter 11, while the introduction to forces (with at least one trick using a force) is in Chapter 5. Also, chapter 11 does have a trick using the Hindu force, you just stopped reading too soon.

My advice would be to study CC 1&2 from start to finish, then expand you arsenal with Harrry's Best Ever 4-DVD set. Between those two resources you will have enough for a lifetime of card magic.

Hudson
Message: Posted by: Joey_Z (Feb 21, 2015 03:48PM)
You are asking a good question by looking for "what can I do besides tell them the card right away" (because that would obviously not be very entertaining). Reread the excellent presentation pointers in "Introduction to Card Magic" again and then reframe your question a little. Spend some time thinking about how you can build tension and mystery as well as what cool way you want to reveal the card...you have the paintbrush, but now you need the art...

Like the great suggestions above, use your resources...read the books and learn how others use their brushes.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Feb 21, 2015 05:28PM)
Suggesting my "Best Ever" DVDs is fine, Hudson (I'm not going to knock my own stuff!), but he might be better off with books. (NOT NECESSARILY MINE, Mr. trollderoll KaBULLahh!! Although I do try to help with all my books - just as you do with all YOUR great contributions, which I'm having trouble finding, but we're all sure they're out there, somewhere.)
Message: Posted by: KenRyan (Feb 21, 2015 07:10PM)
Thanks for the advice everyone! I think it was someone in The Workers room that recommended I go from CC1 to Harry. Well, I'm not going anywhere:). So I'll stay the course through CC2.

Cheers!

Ken
Message: Posted by: 1KJ (Feb 23, 2015 12:18AM)
I agree with Harry, and he has some of the best books.

To weigh in on the Hindu shuffle force, one of the problems is I'm guessing you don't actually shuffle cards using the Hindu Shuffle, and I bet no one you would be performing for would us it either.

So, I would suggest you get a new favorite force. Many find the classic force intimidating, but that is really one of, if not, the best. So, here's an idea:

Get one of Harry's books and find two good tricks involving a force and two good tricks involving a free choice. Then, always do a classic force. If they take your force card, then do one of your force tricks. If they don't get the force card, do one of your free selection tricks.

KJ
Message: Posted by: KenRyan (Feb 23, 2015 10:10AM)
Thanks KJ. the Hindu Shuffle Force is something I'm learning as part of a sort of group project with another magician (who I know through my medieval group [The SCA]) and is only sometimes hard to reach for questions:-P. So this one force may or may not be something I do at normal venues. But it's a bit of a special case. Anyway, thanks for reminding me of the Classic Force. When I didn't find it in CC1 yesterday, I thought it wasn't in there. Thank goodness I have the pdf of it so I could search it (LOVE pdf versions of books!). Giobbi put Force Techniques in 2 different chapters. And I didn't notice the "part 1":-P. Of course, the CF is in Force Techniques, Part 2."

Cheers!

Ken
Message: Posted by: KenRyan (Feb 23, 2015 10:44AM)
Whoa! I just noticed that the pdf version of CC1 does NOT have the Classic Force! The ACTUAL book, which I fortunately also have, goes all the way to Chapter 16. But the pdf stops at Chapter 13! That is weird. I'm so grateful that I actually have the print copy!

Ken
Message: Posted by: 1KJ (Feb 23, 2015 05:01PM)
Very good, Ken. The classic force is really just about practice and timing. Having said that, even professional magicians don't hit on the classic force. This is rare in a "formal" performance setting because participants usually don't want to be the one causing trouble and a pro magician will hold tight on all the cards but the force card and then move the deck so the force card meets their fingers. However, in many settings you may have someone request a different card. No problem, just do an effect that doesn't require a force.

I perform in a wide variety of setting, in many of which the classic force may not work. Because of this, I have thought out my routines so I don't paint myself into a corner. For example, if you take out an envelope with a sealed prediction and fail to force a card, what do you do next? If you have an audience of more than one, you simply force the card on the next person and do two effects in one.

As for the Hindu force with your friend, if it is well motivated, then by all means, it might be the right thing to do. For example, if you are dressed in medieval costumes, then a hindu shuffle and a hindu force might be more in line with the setting. I do some things that are very different from the way I would normally do things, either because they suit the effect or the situation.

Once you have mastered these two forces, you might want to learn a riffle force. That is probably one of the best forces you can use in a setting where you don't want to take too much time having someone select a card.

Have fun.

KJ
Message: Posted by: RedHatMagic (Feb 24, 2015 05:48PM)
There are occasions when the Hindu force is the one to use. I use classic, mostly, riffle often and hindu when required. No one has ever questioned any of them.
Message: Posted by: DWRackley (Mar 7, 2015 09:16AM)
First of all, stop doing the Hindi Shuffle! It’s unnatural. It’s not how you’d normally handle the cards (just try teaching one of your spectators to do it!) and if that’s the only time you “shuffle” the cards that way, sooner or later someone’s going to bust you.

Learn a real force, even the cross-cut (done well) will fly under the radar better than the Hindu.
Message: Posted by: MRSharpe (Mar 8, 2015 12:45PM)
Look into a classic called Red Hot Momma AKA The Chicago Opener.
Message: Posted by: Kuzushi (Mar 8, 2015 11:26PM)
[quote]On Mar 7, 2015, DWRackley wrote:
First of all, stop doing the Hindi Shuffle! It’s unnatural. It’s not how you’d normally handle the cards (just try teaching one of your spectators to do it!) and if that’s the only time you “shuffle” the cards that way, sooner or later someone’s going to bust you.

Learn a real force, even the cross-cut (done well) will fly under the radar better than the Hindu. [/quote]


Truth.
Message: Posted by: Kabbalah (Mar 9, 2015 05:40AM)
[quote]On Mar 9, 2015, Kuzushi wrote:
[quote]On Mar 7, 2015, DWRackley wrote:
First of all, stop doing the Hindi Shuffle! It’s unnatural. It’s not how you’d normally handle the cards (just try teaching one of your spectators to do it!) and if that’s the only time you “shuffle” the cards that way, sooner or later someone’s going to bust you.

Learn a real force, even the cross-cut (done well) will fly under the radar better than the Hindu. [/quote]


Truth. [/quote]

[b]Balderdash![/b]
Message: Posted by: Terrible Wizard (Mar 9, 2015 06:48AM)
I like the Hindu shuffle, even the force. Only once had an issue with it ... and that was a mix of the spectator knowing it and my bad handling.