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Topic: Kenton Knepper: I won't be selling (most of) my stuff any more
Message: Posted by: BillyAcre (May 19, 2015 10:42PM)
[url=http://archive.aweber.com/wonderwizards/HsBiv/h/A_Personal_Letter_From_Kenton.htm]A Very Personal Message from Kenton Knepper[/url]
[i]
First of all, I want to THANK YOU for supporting all of my work over the decades. I have created and shared a large amount of original material. But now that's about to stop. More about that in a moment.

Second, I want you to know that the wonderwizards.com website will continue. It simply will not have the majority of the material I have created on it anymore.
[/i]
Message: Posted by: landmark (May 20, 2015 06:57PM)
We shall see.
Message: Posted by: MVoss (May 20, 2015 09:16PM)
Why is he closing it down?
Message: Posted by: Pakar Ilusi (May 21, 2015 12:12AM)
Yes, why?
Message: Posted by: eusbanger (May 21, 2015 12:58AM)
I don't understand why
Message: Posted by: Chaz93 (May 21, 2015 01:30AM)
Limited editions bring in more money. Over saturating a market with your material is unwise. Good tactic, get a lot out there, build up a name for yourself, then disappear and create false scarcity.
Message: Posted by: Jeff Wassom (May 21, 2015 11:04AM)
Was getting the feeling they are creating a new site and the material will still be available, possibly in a different form though?
Message: Posted by: E.E. (May 21, 2015 11:16AM)
[img]http://www.krismillerlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Blog-Child-Support-Oh-No.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Lord Of The Horses (May 21, 2015 11:18AM)
[quote]On May 21, 2015, E.E. wrote:
[img]http://www.krismillerlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Blog-Child-Support-Oh-No.jpg[/img] [/quote]


Ever... You are a sneaky disbeliever... :lol:
Message: Posted by: E.E. (May 21, 2015 11:24AM)
[quote]On May 21, 2015, Lord Of The Horses wrote:

Ever... You are a sneaky disbeliever... :lol: [/quote]

Paolo, A friend of ours is going to get upset with this news... :lol: :lol:
Message: Posted by: Mr Timothy Gray (May 21, 2015 11:57AM)
The message is very cryptic, isn't it? A form of double speak. It won't be available - but it will! - just not all of it! - in a certain kind of package! - there still will be stuff! - most of it will be gone though! - but we'll still have plenty available for you!
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 21, 2015 12:13PM)
Who is Kenton Knepper?

Doug
Message: Posted by: George Hunter (May 21, 2015 12:20PM)
Kenton Knepper, in his announcement, assures us, "A handful of my classic works will remain on the website as they are the foundations of current mentalism and magic." To the extent that his (unnamed in the announcement) "classic works" are in fact that foundational, I have been clueless most of the six years I have been into Mentalism.

George
Message: Posted by: truman (May 21, 2015 02:45PM)
Three of Kenton Knepper's works are listed by Bob Cassidy in his "Thirty-Nine Steps to Mentalism."
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 21, 2015 02:55PM)
[quote]On May 21, 2015, truman wrote:
Three of Kenton Knepper's works are listed by Bob Cassidy in his "Thirty-Nine Steps to Mentalism." [/quote]

Yep. And here's what I wrote:
[quote]

Kenton Knepper:

Wonder Words
Completely Cold
Miracles of Suggestion

Different, original, powerful, mind-expanding, seminal, important, essential, Kenton occasionally comes under fire for some of his radical approaches to our art. His work, though, is the most important development in mentalism of the last decade. This is the stuff that turns skeptics into believers. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: MatCult (May 22, 2015 03:47AM)
[quote]On May 21, 2015, Dougini wrote:
Who is Kenton Knepper?

Doug [/quote]

Really?
Message: Posted by: landmark (May 22, 2015 06:47AM)
Just so long as the [url=http://www.cafepress.com/kentonart2.4295172]thong [/url] is still available.
Message: Posted by: george1953 (May 22, 2015 08:54AM)
Hmm, must get one of those and wear it outside my trousers superman style !!!
Message: Posted by: George Hunter (May 22, 2015 09:31AM)
In response to Bob and other friends, I did not mean to suggest that Knepper had published nothing of worth. You may see what I mean when I take the liberty to capitalize two words in Kenton's announcement: "A handful of my classic works will remain on the website as they are THE foundations of current mentalism AND magic."

A number of people, including Cassidy, have published something foundational or seminally important in Mentalism, without claiming (or implying) they are THE foundations of current mentalism AND magic. While some hyperbole helps make a point, other hyperbole is indulgent and over the top.

To restate my original confession: If Kenton's work is THAT foundational, that reality has so far bypassed me in toto. I am still willing to be shown, and still willing to do some reading.

George
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 22, 2015 11:11AM)
[quote]On May 22, 2015, MatCult wrote:
[quote]On May 21, 2015, Dougini wrote:
Who is Kenton Knepper?

Doug [/quote]

Really? [/quote]

Never heard of the guy. Bob C. says he is good. I'll check him out! :)

Doug
Message: Posted by: E.E. (May 22, 2015 11:26AM)
[quote]On May 22, 2015, Dougini wrote:

Never heard of the guy. Bob C. says he is good. I'll check him out! :)

Doug [/quote]

Hurry, before all of his work disappears.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (May 22, 2015 11:28AM)
Doug,

Kenton is the one who renamed double speak to dual reality.
He has some fine work on linguistics and word usage, and his Wonder Words publications are "THE" work on the subject.
He has other excellent works as well, Mindreading being one of them.

Tony
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 22, 2015 11:58AM)
Wonder why he is quitting? Piracy? Wouldn't surprise me. Maybe this is a marketing strategy...

Doug
Message: Posted by: seamagu (May 22, 2015 12:22PM)
Tony, Doug, did anyone ever tell you you both look remarkably alike :-)
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 22, 2015 12:30PM)
Wow! You're right! Ha! I got a bit more gray...

Doug
Message: Posted by: CurtWaltermire (May 22, 2015 12:46PM)
If you're not sure who Kenton Knepper is, ask Peter Turner. I understand some skepticism with the whole "going out of business sale" type of mentality as a marketing gimmick, but I highly doubt that is the case with Kenton.
Message: Posted by: E.E. (May 22, 2015 01:00PM)
[quote]On May 22, 2015, CurtWaltermire wrote:
If you're not sure who Kenton Knepper is, ask Peter Turner. I understand some skepticism with the whole "going out of business sale" type of mentality as a marketing gimmick, but I highly doubt that is the case with Kenton. [/quote]

If Doug doesn't know Kenton what makes you think he knows Peter Turner? :p :bg:
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 22, 2015 01:04PM)
LOL! You're right. I'm just starting to study mentalism. Lotta names are not familiar. But I'm glad I ran across this...thanks guys! :)

Doug
Message: Posted by: E.E. (May 22, 2015 01:12PM)
Doug- I thought you were just kidding :eek:
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (May 22, 2015 01:24PM)
[quote]On May 22, 2015, E.E. wrote:
[quote]On May 22, 2015, CurtWaltermire wrote:
If you're not sure who Kenton Knepper is, ask Peter Turner. I understand some skepticism with the whole "going out of business sale" type of mentality as a marketing gimmick, but I highly doubt that is the case with Kenton. [/quote]

If Doug doesn't know Kenton what makes you think he knows Peter Turner? :p :bg: [/quote]

A few years ago I didn't know who you were EE... then bammo - you da man!
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (May 22, 2015 01:33PM)
Got to say that some of Kenton's works left me a bit underwhelmed. Completely Cold left me completely cold. I prefer the Osterlind and Cassidy approach - publish great stuff, and don't tell us it is the past, present and future of the art. I think it is the marketing that puts me off him. If this is a marketing stunt, as some think, then I am even less impressed.
Message: Posted by: Lord Of The Horses (May 22, 2015 01:39PM)
[quote]On May 22, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Got to say that some of Kenton's works left me a bit underwhelmed.

Completely Cold left me completely cold. [/quote]

Then don't complain.

It worked! :lol:
Message: Posted by: IAIN (May 22, 2015 01:40PM)
...once you a ready to see and hear the news that you know is going to make you buy some of kenton's work then you will be blessed and happy buying it now and feeling even happier as you read this message...

would you like to some buy of kenton's work wouldn't you...

anyway - there's lots of very worthwhile work of kenton's - kentonism, twists and trances, mind reading, the secret and more...definitely a man who has contributed a great deal that you should invest in...
Message: Posted by: E.E. (May 22, 2015 01:42PM)
[quote]On May 22, 2015, saysold1 wrote:

A few years ago I didn't know who you were EE... then bammo - you da man! [/quote]

And when I say the word "Hocus Pocus" you will forget that you ever met me... In fact, you will forget your own name... then when I say the word Hocus Pocus again you'll be able to remember everything again...

And now you remember everything cause I already said the word again. :lol:

How you feeling? :cool:
Message: Posted by: CurtWaltermire (May 22, 2015 01:54PM)
[quote]On May 22, 2015, E.E. wrote: If Doug doesn't know Kenton what makes you think he knows Peter Turner? :p :bg: [/quote]

Not to take it too seriously, of course, but here was my line of thinking: First, I thought that Doug was joking also, and I don't mean that in a condescending way ("WHAAAAT? YOU don't know who KENTON IS?"). I also thought that perhaps if Doug was newer to mentalism (even though he appears to be an old fart like me ;)) that it was likely that he knew the likes of Peter Turner, since Peter is a bit more of the current generation of young mentalists who are popular. At the same time, I began to wonder if there were some others who genuinely didn't know who Kenton was, especially because they seemed so quick to be cynical, skeptical, or whatever. SOOO...

My brain signaled my fingers and I posted.

I'm just speaking in Kenton's defense somewhat, I suppose. Since he was a mentor to Peter, I am confident that Peter would speak in his defense as well. I don't know exactly why Kenton is doing this, and I really don't care or presume to know. He's doing it and that's that. Don't buy the stuff if you don't want it. No need to call his character into question, or presume his motives to be selfish, greedy, or whatever.

$.02
Message: Posted by: Lord Of The Horses (May 22, 2015 01:56PM)
[quote]On May 22, 2015, E.E. wrote:
[quote]On May 22, 2015, saysold1 wrote:

A few years ago I didn't know who you were EE... then bammo - you da man! [/quote]

And when I say the word "Hocus Pocus" you will forget that you ever met me... In fact, you will forget your own name... then when I say the word Hocus Pocus again you'll be able to remember everything again...

And now you remember everything cause I already said the word again. :lol:


How you feeling? :cool: [/quote]

***! It even worked on me! :hypnodisk:

I want it! Please tell me it is NOT a limited edition! :rotf:
Message: Posted by: E.E. (May 22, 2015 02:02PM)
[quote]On May 22, 2015, Lord Of The Horses wrote:

***! It even worked on me! :hypnodisk:

I want it! Please tell me it is NOT a limited edition! :rotf: [/quote]

I'm sorry to disappoint you Paolo. This will be limited to just 2,000 copies and the price will be 350€ but it's all for the good of the art... PM me and I'll tell you the shipping costs.
Message: Posted by: CurtWaltermire (May 22, 2015 02:31PM)
Yaller kuh-rayzee. :crazydude:
Message: Posted by: Amirá (May 22, 2015 02:51PM)
Kenton is indeed a man to watch in Mentalism. Sure, maybe some of his work was too controversial and personal, so it will not fit everyone, and that´s part of the nature of some thoughts, methods and ideas.

He is preparing other site with extra features. My recommendation is to check his site and get some of his work if you are interested. I always find value in his ideas and approaches, although looks like the site is already down.


Best
Message: Posted by: Lord Of The Horses (May 22, 2015 04:00PM)
[quote]On May 22, 2015, E.E. wrote:
[quote]On May 22, 2015, Lord Of The Horses wrote:

***! It even worked on me! :hypnodisk:

I want it! Please tell me it is NOT a limited edition! :rotf: [/quote]

I'm sorry to disappoint you Paolo. This will be limited to just 2,000 copies and the price will be 350€ but it's all for the good of the art... PM me and I'll tell you the shipping costs. [/quote]

For that HIGH price I hope you go an extra.mile and include a carrying case for your gimmick!
Message: Posted by: E.E. (May 22, 2015 04:15PM)
[quote]On May 22, 2015, Lord Of The Horses wrote:

For that HIGH price I hope you go an extra.mile and include a carrying case for your gimmick! [/quote]

I'll go two extra miles and give you TWO carrying cases.
One in case you loose the other one :lol:
Message: Posted by: David Numen (May 23, 2015 04:58AM)
Kenton's early works - Wonder Words, Completely Cold, Wonder Readings...all the way up to Kentonism I think are pretty solid and worthy of being labelled "classic". The man, however, preaches endlessly in all his works and any belief in him vanishes the minute you see him perform. That said, it doesn't alter the fact that there is gold in those works - just take the preaching with a hefty dose of salt.

What this latest message is about I don't know other than boosting sales. And why he's selling the work (and therefore associating himself with) someone who is notorious in our strange little community I don't understand and that fact alone would make me steer well clear of him.
Message: Posted by: MagicalEducator (May 25, 2015 12:44AM)
Each time I've seen Kenton perform live in Las Vegas the response from May audience was very good. Not sure what to make about this latest development.
Message: Posted by: Cbring (May 27, 2015 04:52PM)
There are a few really important names that I think should be in every mentalist mind. They have become great names, not by being a copy of others, but by having their touched added to the history. Kenton is one of these names. His approach to readings and most known, the Wonder Words have made a huge change in most listeners and readers approach. For me His work have added small changes in my scripting that changes a good effect into a miracle. In our search for knowledge, we shall never addict our self to one mind but instead search and read in the history from past to now . The foundation in Al Koran, Annemann and Corinda, the next generation in Maven, Knepper, Cassidy, Osterlind and Banachek and the young ones like Turner, Jermay, McLeod and Volpe. Of course there are others as well. But for each brilliant mind I can get a glimpse of, my world expands.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 28, 2015 09:44AM)
Good point Cbring. The sheer number is staggering. I am currently studying Bob Cassidy's work. It is SO extensive, I cannot imagine taking on another project. How do you guys decide? I have the entire run of The Jinx, and have [i]barely[/i] cracked that.

Doug
Message: Posted by: Jeff Wassom (May 28, 2015 10:04AM)
Doug, I think Kenton's material is more theory based, and best applied to things you already do. If curious I would pick up Wonder Words, and go from there.

Picked up a TON of Kenton's material during a 50% off sale last year, but Wonder Words was probably more than enough for my needs and experience level. Have enjoyed most everything I've read though. Hope this helps. =)
Message: Posted by: Dougini (May 28, 2015 10:35AM)
It does, Jeff! Thanks! Wonder Words. OK! :)

Doug
Message: Posted by: Mr Timothy Gray (May 31, 2015 10:53AM)
I'm curious to know where this announcement was made, because it isn't mentioned anywhere on Kenton's home page. In light of that, of course he'll receive dozens of emails from people who are confused about the change(???).
Message: Posted by: David Numen (May 31, 2015 03:22PM)
It was on his wonderwizards page.
Message: Posted by: Withnail (May 31, 2015 03:27PM)
And all over Facebook...
Message: Posted by: Mr Timothy Gray (May 31, 2015 04:20PM)
Yes, but if you go to the actual webpage/home page, there's no mention of the announcement.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 31, 2015 04:48PM)
It was on his homepage for about a week.
Message: Posted by: Mr Timothy Gray (May 31, 2015 05:24PM)
Huh. That's very odd, indeed.
Message: Posted by: konjurer (May 31, 2015 10:38PM)
I do know Kenton has send some blog-like emails to his followers and he has been unhappy with the state of the art.

What many of mentalists may not know is that Kenton is a killer magician as well. His sponge ball routine is tremendous and he is a great card handler as well.
Message: Posted by: reese (May 31, 2015 11:25PM)
There is no such thing as "state of the art". That would be a static thing, something dead. There is only an individual performer striving to do their best. Web sites like the Café don't reflect "state of the art". They are vehicles for dialog. Imperfect though it operates sometimes, the process is still of value.
Message: Posted by: reese (May 31, 2015 11:31PM)
[quote]On May 31, 2015, konjurer wrote:

What many of mentalists may not know is that Kenton is a killer magician as well. His sponge ball routine is tremendous and he is a great card handler as well. [/quote] No offense but I am a killer card handler as well. ( hate sponge balls). What does that have to do with the price of bananas?
Message: Posted by: David Numen (Jun 1, 2015 02:39AM)
[quote]On May 31, 2015, konjurer wrote:
I do know Kenton has send some blog-like emails to his followers and he has been unhappy with the state of the art.

What many of mentalists may not know is that Kenton is a killer magician as well. His sponge ball routine is tremendous and he is a great card handler as well. [/quote]

Therein lies an interesting problem. His "followers". He really did seem to start the craze of the creator that you weren't allowed to criticise.

Its interesting if he isn't happy with the state of the art. I think mentalism is in pretty good shape. Take someone that kk refers to as a student - Peter Turner. Great thinking, you can see he's developed from his earlier work and learnt AND he's got excellent performing chops. Something kk lacks judging by the videos. I don't have a problem with a creator not being a performer - it is common in our art - but kk is sooooo preachy he really should be better than he is.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Jun 1, 2015 06:34AM)
[quote]On May 31, 2015, konjurer wrote:
What many of mentalists may not know is that Kenton is a killer magician as well. His sponge ball routine is tremendous and he is a great card handler as well. [/quote]

Good to know! I love the Sponge Balls! Cards? Not so much...

Doug
Message: Posted by: konjurer (Jun 1, 2015 10:53PM)
[quote]On Jun 1, 2015, David Numen wrote:
[quote]On May 31, 2015, konjurer wrote:
I do know Kenton has send some blog-like emails to his followers and he has been unhappy with the state of the art.

What many of mentalists may not know is that Kenton is a killer magician as well. His sponge ball routine is tremendous and he is a great card handler as well. [/quote]

Therein lies an interesting problem. His "followers". He really did seem to start the craze of the creator that you weren't allowed to criticise.

Its interesting if he isn't happy with the state of the art. I think mentalism is in pretty good shape. Take someone that kk refers to as a student - Peter Turner. Great thinking, you can see he's developed from his earlier work and learnt AND he's got excellent performing chops. Something kk lacks judging by the videos. I don't have a problem with a creator not being a performer - it is common in our art - but kk is sooooo preachy he really should be better than he is. [/quote]

I should have been more specific. If I remember, KK was unhappy with the state of fly-by-night hacks that don't put time into the study, practice and perfecting of classic mentalism. I was speculating that perhaps that was the motive for pulling his material.

How is KK not a performer? Seems that he has made a living out of performing and is widely respected. I hate the hero worship that goes on in these forums but I have seen KK perform several times and he is a great entertainer. Which is why I made the point about his chops as a magician. Magic is not his mainstay but when he does magic it is...well, magical and very original.
Message: Posted by: BillyAcre (Jun 2, 2015 12:24PM)
Stop the presses! Now there's a payment plan!

http://archive.aweber.com/wonderwizards/OWb2P/h/Own_everything_low_payment.htm
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Jun 2, 2015 01:38PM)
Sorry, couldn't resist the temtation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GQ5oZXPCNM
Message: Posted by: george1953 (Jun 2, 2015 03:20PM)
Temptation even.
Message: Posted by: BillyAcre (Jun 6, 2015 11:39PM)
I'm not dead yet.

From KK's Facebook:
[i]
Just FYI. Due to tech reasons theJust FYI. Due to tech reasons the www.WonderWizards.com website still has everything on it for a few more days. So, while you can... spread the word. website still has everything on it for a few more days. So, while you can... spread the word.[/i]
Message: Posted by: BillyAcre (Jun 6, 2015 11:40PM)
This sounds like it's going to become one of those carpet places that is perpetually going out of business, if you have any of those where you live.
Message: Posted by: Matt Chalk (Jun 7, 2015 01:51AM)
It is.

Kenton has been doing this for a while now.

A poor business practice if you asked me
Message: Posted by: WooverM (Jun 10, 2015 02:29PM)
I think it's gone now :(

Sad day....
Message: Posted by: R. Steiner (Jun 12, 2015 08:35PM)
I have always found Kenton's work to be very inspiring. Perhaps the scarcity of it will make it more appreciated.
Message: Posted by: gijsbertjansen (Jun 16, 2015 04:47AM)
Dear Brethren,

No idea why no one is able to express things as they are:

Wonder Words is a classic!!!!!!

Please, stop !@#$%^& about the business and performance stuff, KK is a genius and should be accepted as such


fr gr
dr GJ Jansen
Message: Posted by: Chaz93 (Jun 26, 2015 12:43AM)
Someone could be a genius and still have bad business practices. It's flawed thinking that because you like or respect someone you must agree with everything they do.
Message: Posted by: magusofpower (Jun 27, 2015 03:39PM)
Kenton has created some very inspirational material over the years and he honestly mentored some of the brightest creators and performers of our generation (Jermay, Turner, Parker, etc.). I believe he was instrumental in creating an awareness in mentalism of the power inherent in our words and dialogue and how conscious structuring of our words can greatly aid in turning a trick into a miracle. I would suggest checking out Wonder Words and Kentonism, at least, to anyone who is not familiar with his work. I have personally found great value in numerous works by Kenton and often find hidden gems scattered through his books. Not all of his material will be suited for everyone but I very seldom find a creator who can create original material that will always be useable for everyone. We all have unique abilities as well as limits. Whether or not this is a marketing tactic has no bearing on the value of Kenton's offerings to the community, however it would be nice to have a little more honesty in advertising when it comes to mentalism and magic. Most of the time the only real "magician fooler's" are the ad copy and blurb writers.
Message: Posted by: Matt Chalk (Jun 27, 2015 05:39PM)
[quote]On Jun 27, 2015, magusofpower wrote:
Kenton has created some very inspirational material over the years and he honestly mentored some of the brightest creators and performers of our generation (Jermay, Turner, Parker, etc.). I believe he was instrumental in creating an awareness in mentalism of the power inherent in our words and dialogue and how conscious structuring of our words can greatly aid in turning a trick into a miracle. I would suggest checking out Wonder Words and Kentonism, at least, to anyone who is not familiar with his work. I have personally found great value in numerous works by Kenton and often find hidden gems scattered through his books. Not all of his material will be suited for everyone but I very seldom find a creator who can create original material that will always be useable for everyone. We all have unique abilities as well as limits. Whether or not this is a marketing tactic has no bearing on the value of Kenton's offerings to the community, however it would be nice to have a little more honesty in advertising when it comes to mentalism and magic. Most of the time the only real "magician fooler's" are the ad copy and blurb writers. [/quote]

Your defending his material.

That is not what this thread is about.

This thread is talking about his shady and devious business tactics
Message: Posted by: jstreiff (Jun 28, 2015 10:21AM)
This thread began as an announcement that Kenton was retiring a website. It has turned into commentaries about Kenton, the more negative of which seem to come mostly from people who have either never actually seen him perform or have never actually met him.

I find it interesting that those who know him, like Amira and myself, do not share this opinion. Only a few posts talk about his business practices. And again, the thread began simply as an announcement, nothing more.
Message: Posted by: Mr Timothy Gray (Jun 28, 2015 10:54AM)
The strange thing is, most of everything Kenton has published is still available on the new website.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Jun 28, 2015 10:59AM)
Bob Cassidy has recommended Wonder Words. You guys seem to agree that is a good place to start. Thank you!

Doug
Message: Posted by: Tim Cavendish (Jun 28, 2015 09:52PM)
[quote]On Jun 28, 2015, jstreiff wrote:
This thread began as an announcement that Kenton was retiring a website. It has turned into commentaries about Kenton, the more negative of which seem to come mostly from people who have either never actually seen him perform or have never actually met him.

I find it interesting that those who know him, like Amira and myself, do not share this opinion. Only a few posts talk about his business practices. And again, the thread began simply as an announcement, nothing more. [/quote]

From what I've read, the discussion here has mostly been about the difference between the claim in the announcement vs. reality...

"[i]Second, I want you to know that the wonderwizards.com website will continue. [b]It simply will not have the majority of the material I have created on it anymore. [/b][/i]"

...and the business ramifications of that difference.
Message: Posted by: Matt Chalk (Jun 28, 2015 10:04PM)
[quote]On Jun 28, 2015, jstreiff wrote:
This thread began as an announcement that Kenton was retiring a website. It has turned into commentaries about Kenton, the more negative of which seem to come mostly from people who have either never actually seen him perform or have never actually met him.

I find it interesting that those who know him, like Amira and myself, do not share this opinion. Only a few posts talk about his business practices. And again, the thread began simply as an announcement, nothing more. [/quote]

I guess I'll repeat it for a third time

This thread isn't talking about Kenton's material, his personality, his persona or his performance style.

The title clearly states its about his business practices, and I amongst others have exposed just how shady they are.

I think Kenton's a great performer, love a lot of his material. However I don't support someone that blatantly lies to there community to make a quick buck.

Stay on topic
Message: Posted by: truman (Jun 28, 2015 11:44PM)
[quote]On Jun 28, 2015, Matt Chalk wrote:
I guess I'll repeat it for a third time
[/quote]

Never repeat an effect unless you're able to accomplish the same thing with a different method. Oh, and I guess there should be a reason to repeat it, too.
Message: Posted by: WooverM (Jun 29, 2015 12:15AM)
I have noticed Wonder Words have been compiled into a sort of online course for 117$ in the new website (https://www.wonderwizards.com/c/courses/wonder-words-the-course) is that what the cryptic language meant?
Message: Posted by: signal2noise (Jun 29, 2015 01:23AM)
[quote]On Jun 28, 2015, Matt Chalk wrote:
[quote]On Jun 28, 2015, jstreiff wrote:
This thread began as an announcement that Kenton was retiring a website. It has turned into commentaries about Kenton, the more negative of which seem to come mostly from people who have either never actually seen him perform or have never actually met him.

I find it interesting that those who know him, like Amira and myself, do not share this opinion. Only a few posts talk about his business practices. And again, the thread began simply as an announcement, nothing more. [/quote]

I guess I'll repeat it for a third time

This thread isn't talking about Kenton's material, his personality, his persona or his performance style.

The title clearly states its about his business practices, and I amongst others have exposed just how shady they are.

I think Kenton's a great performer, love a lot of his material. However I don't support someone that blatantly lies to there community to make a quick buck.

Stay on topic [/quote]



Neither the title nor the OP said anything of the sort. The thread went downhill pretty quickly. And no one has "exposed" anything. Cast aspersions, allegations and innuendos, sure, but nothing of substance.
Message: Posted by: jstreiff (Jun 29, 2015 07:09AM)
[quote]On Jun 28, 2015, Matt Chalk wrote:

This thread isn't talking about Kenton's material, his personality, his persona or his performance style.

The title clearly states its about his business practices, and I amongst others have exposed just how shady they are.

[/quote]

Matt,

The title of the thread and the OP's post is clearly about an announcement. You were the first person to use the words 'business practices' in a post in this thread.

I have searched this site looking for your comments regarding Kenton's practices supporting your allegations. Perhaps I am doing something wrong in the search, but I can't find any such posts on this site. Could you please provide a link to one of them?
Message: Posted by: Matt Chalk (Jun 29, 2015 05:17PM)
[quote]On Jun 7, 2015, BillyAcre wrote:
This sounds like it's going to become one of those carpet places that is perpetually going out of business, if you have any of those where you live. [/quote]

[quote]On Jun 28, 2015, Mr Timothy Gray wrote:
The strange thing is, most of everything Kenton has published is still available on the new website. [/quote]

[quote]On May 21, 2015, Mr Timothy Gray wrote:
The message is very cryptic, isn't it? A form of double speak. It won't be available - but it will! - just not all of it! - in a certain kind of package! - there still will be stuff! - most of it will be gone though! - but we'll still have plenty available for you! [/quote]

Several people expressing concerns about Kenton's business practices. The user above me was right in the fact this thread was derailed very quickly. It was an announcement about Kenton removing the majority of material from his site.

As I've said I think Kenton is a fantastic performer, his effects and creations are some of the most incredible and creative in the industry in my opinion.

Once again however I don't think its right to lie to your potential customer over and over again
Message: Posted by: ProfessorMagicJMG (Jun 8, 2016 02:09PM)
Just prowling around on the Magic Café I found this thread in reference to a website that is, nearly a year later, still up.
https://www.wonderwizards.com/c/wonder-words/wonder-words-the-course
https://www.wonderwizards.com/l/downloads/genuine-amazement
https://www.wonderwizards.com/
While there are extensive descriptions of the products in the above links, I have not read very much in the way of a good review of the products and have not been able to find anything besides people who love them and praise them, and people who acknowledge they are good but then criticize the business practices.

What's ironic is, both of these courses are about using LANGUAGE via NLP to get people to do what you want. I think it's fascinating that the advertising practices have accomplished exactly what is wanted by the creator; namely, to buy the products. The discussion these tactics have generated serve primarily to increase interest in the products, so essentially, he is proving the content works by using the principles to advertise it. Neat, huh?
Message: Posted by: Axel (Jun 8, 2016 03:12PM)
I don't agree.
The discussion in this thread lasted only for a little longer than a month and has been dead for a year now until
someone decided to resurrect it. With three links to where to buy the products.
How very obliging of you ;)

I think while this kind of sales-boost might work for a short period of time, you can do it just so often.
It doesn't last and does nothing to build a long lasting relationship with your customers.
I would guess in the long run this kind of practice wont help your business. Not in an community as small as ours.

All the best,
Axel
Message: Posted by: The Hermit (Jun 9, 2016 04:34PM)
I think it's time for Kenton to disappear again. Just after the limited stock is gone.
Message: Posted by: countrymaven (Jun 20, 2016 11:09PM)
Unfortunately, I cannot speak with certainty, but much of his material has been stolen.
So maybe he is doing the community a favor by protecting his contributions to the art.
Message: Posted by: nimrod (Jun 21, 2016 02:12PM)
When I think about Kenton's material (bought a few back in the days) two words comes to mind: pipe dreams. And if you limit me to just one word I'll go with armchair.

Nimrod , Israel