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Topic: Contrasting Coins
Message: Posted by: Bin (Jun 27, 2015 10:11PM)
I very badly need some coins which contrast with half dollars and similar for changes. Where can I get my hands on some English pennies or those fake "Chinese" coins? (I can't think of a better contrast than that.)
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Jun 27, 2015 11:00PM)
Best contrast is a silver half dollar and the old queen Victoria English pennies. They were made of a bronze alloy I believe, and turn a dark color. There is little contrast between a clad half dollar and a new copper english penny when the light hits. There are many commercially made chinese clins, but if you can get a hold of a real half dollar sized chinese coin, they are a greenish color from oxidation, and look great.
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Jun 28, 2015 06:32AM)
Johnson Products has them along with the big auction site.
Message: Posted by: Bin (Jun 28, 2015 09:20AM)
I'd actually prefer fake coins, but it doesn't really matter. I'll take a look on Amazon. Is there a site dedicated to this stuff?
Message: Posted by: Ray Haining (Jun 28, 2015 09:50AM)
Fake copper coins don't oxidize well.
Message: Posted by: Bin (Jun 28, 2015 09:53AM)
Okay. Like I said, it's not a big deal. So where should I be looking? What's a good source?
Message: Posted by: karnak (Jun 28, 2015 10:31AM)
As Tom suggested, and if you are okay with clad half dollars and bright shiny copper English pennies (and bright shiny brass fake Chinese coins), then you might want to start out by looking at Johnson Products: https://johnsonmagicproducts.com/shop/index.php
Message: Posted by: fonda57 (Jun 28, 2015 11:02AM)
You can get sets of India coins at Midwest Magic for about 6 bucks, and they are a great contrast. You get 3 different colors.
Message: Posted by: Bin (Jun 28, 2015 11:24AM)
Ohhhh, I thought he meant www.johnsonproducts.com . Which was kinda weird. I guess I can just use them a lot to get them duller(?).

And Midwest Magic, I'm checking it out.
Message: Posted by: calypso (Jun 29, 2015 06:37PM)
I use British West African penny ... same size as the normal pennys but with a hole in it
Message: Posted by: CarpetShark (Jul 2, 2015 02:16PM)
[quote]On Jun 29, 2015, calypso wrote:
I use British West African penny ... same size as the normal pennys but with a hole in it [/quote]

Same here. For a Spellbound, I find it gets more of a reaction then an English penny - specs don't expect to see a 'brown' coin with a hole in it.
Message: Posted by: Bin (Jul 2, 2015 02:28PM)
But I need a half dollar sized coin ... I love the idea of the hole, don't get me wrong. The [url=http://www.johnsonmagicproducts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=88]Hong Kong coins[/url] I found on the Johnson Magic Products website, for example, looked really good to me, but I chickened out at the price and ordered some English Pennies instead.
Message: Posted by: Ray Haining (Jul 2, 2015 04:22PM)
[quote] On Jun 29, 2015, calypso wrote:
I use British West African penny ... same size as the normal pennys but with a hole in it [/quote]

Isn't it, rather, an "East" African "dime" (ten cents)?
Message: Posted by: Eric Caldwell (Jul 2, 2015 05:50PM)
Http://coinquest.com/cgi-bin/cq/coins?main_coin=10597

No, it's a British West African penny. "The coin's made out of copper, much like an English penny. It's about the same size as an English penny, about the same shape as an English penny, and it looks a lot like an English penny and you might mistake it for an English penny if you can't see the hole." - Curtis Kam "New York Spellbound"
Message: Posted by: Ray Haining (Jul 2, 2015 08:41PM)
Interesting. That's a new one on me. Is the half-penny the size of a quarter?
Message: Posted by: John Long (Jul 2, 2015 09:33PM)
There was a mail order catalog that had a dozen or more EPs as part of a science type experiment - they could be stacked on end by using a magnet.
They must have had an iron core and coated with copper. I can't find that catalog anymore.

I've bought real EPs and fake Chinese coins from eBay. The EPs are uniformly half dollar in size. The Chinese coins vary from smaller than a dime to the size of a silver dollar, but the size is hard to tell from the ad. If you buy the fake Chinese coins from magic dealers, you will tend to pay ten times as much as you can get the fung shway coins (sp) from eBay. They are thin colorized aluminum.

If you are close to a China Town, you can get a wide variety of coins, they may be heavier than the fung shway coins, they can be cheaper than the magic store coins.

John
Message: Posted by: karnak (Jul 3, 2015 10:52AM)
[quote]On Jun 27, 2015, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
Best contrast is a silver half dollar and the old queen Victoria English pennies. They were made of a bronze alloy I believe, and turn a dark color. There is little contrast between a clad half dollar and a new copper english penny when the light hits. [/quote]

I've wondered aloud, in previous posts, as to why none of my English pennies will tarnish or patina (can "patina" be a verb, as well as a noun, like "tarnish"?). They may dull or darken slightly, but even after years of use they all still stubbornly remain a basically bright-ish, orangey/pinkish coppery color.

What I'm after is that deep, dark, rich, chocolate/walnut brown that I see in really old (and soft) English pennies. So, I'm starting to wonder if perhaps there is some sort of fundamental difference between my copper-wire-colored English pennies (which all came from Johnson Products, bearing 1960s dates but looking very crisp and new) and the older English pennies that are such a dark brown.

Having never looked into it before, I'd always just assumed that all English pennies were all copper. But if the older pennies are actually more of a bronze alloy, and if the newer ones are not, might this explain why it seems like my reddish pennies are likely never to turn dark brown (for that "best contrast," alongside a real silver half dollar)?

Did the alloy in newer "red" English pennies get changed, relative to the older, "brown-turning" ones? Or are these newer English pennies (such as the ones Johnson provides) perhaps a new item created solely by magic manufacturers/dealers for magicians' use (as opposed to real money that was once actually in circulation), employing a new and different alloy?
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Jul 3, 2015 12:00PM)
They are all real, but the metal changed with the King George pennies, and may have changed again with the Queen Elizabeth pennies (or they are just the same). The two types of Queen Victoria pennies (i think the older ones from the 1800s are called the bun type, and the ones after those from the early 1900s were the veil type) are the ones that turn dark.
Message: Posted by: Leo H (Jul 3, 2015 12:30PM)
Ray and Calypso are both correct. There are two African coins of that type floating around: the East African dime and the West African Penny. I have one of each and they look almost identical.
Message: Posted by: karnak (Jul 3, 2015 01:23PM)
[quote]On Jul 3, 2015, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
They are all real, but the metal changed with the King George pennies, and may have changed again with the Queen Elizabeth pennies (or they are just the same). The two types of Queen Victoria pennies (i think the older ones from the 1800s are called the bun type, and the ones after those from the early 1900s were the veil type) are the ones that turn dark. [/quote]

Thanks for the insight. I suppose I should be haunting coin shops, looking for older Elizabeth and King George pennies, since my newer English pennies (from Johnson) all seem to be of non-browning metal.

And I suppose the only source of matching (brown) gaffs will be from the high-end, custom gaff makers.
Message: Posted by: Ray Haining (Jul 4, 2015 12:11AM)
[quote] On Jul 3, 2015, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
They are all real, but the metal changed with the King George pennies, and may have changed again with the Queen Elizabeth pennies (or they are just the same). The two types of Queen Victoria pennies (i think the older ones from the 1800s are called the bun type, and the ones after those from the early 1900s were the veil type) are the ones that turn dark. [/quote]

Are you sure about that? I had a couple of King George pennies from the early 1900s (which I don't have anymore) that were very dark and definitely made of different material from the Queen Elizabeth pennies we are all familiar with.
Message: Posted by: Michael Rubinstein (Jul 4, 2015 09:49AM)
The King George pennies appeared in the early 1900s. They were the same bronze metal as the queen Victoria pennies, until in 1925 became 95% copper. During the war they became 97% copper, but went right back to the 95% copper mix after the war, and are the same as the Queen Elizabeth pennies. I should add that I love the Queen Victoria pennies since they look good, are not expensive, and are soft. The bun head coins are usually softer but have less detail. The veil head pennies work great as well and also look good.
Message: Posted by: karnak (Jul 5, 2015 10:21AM)
[quote]On Jul 2, 2015, Bin wrote:
But I need a half dollar sized coin ... I love the idea of the hole, don't get me wrong. The [url=http://www.johnsonmagicproducts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=88]Hong Kong coins[/url] I found on the Johnson Magic Products website, for example, looked really good to me, but I chickened out at the price and ordered some English Pennies instead. [/quote]

Note that the Hong Kong coins are gaffed coins, hence their $35 price tag.

But Johnson also sells regular (ungaffed) Chinese coins for only $15 each. See: http://www.johnsonmagicproducts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=68&zenid=4878f4df0c293ca6f07736f8a2ee1975
Message: Posted by: Bin (Jul 5, 2015 10:32AM)
Thanks, karnak! I may just purchase their regular Chinese coin some time in the future.