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Topic: New Penn & Teller Fool Us
Message: Posted by: Xpilot (Jul 6, 2015 03:41PM)
I just happened to see that Penn and Teller's Fool Us, season 2, starts tonight at 8:00 (Eastern) on CW.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 6, 2015 11:04PM)
You can read my review of the first episode of their new season here:

http://jackshalom.net/2015/07/07/fool-us-penn-and-teller/
Message: Posted by: Nash (Jul 6, 2015 11:39PM)
I might be biased but this season looks promising! The acts on Ep.1 were phenomenal, super entertaining and have a great variety.
Looking forward to the rest of this season!
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jul 7, 2015 11:03AM)
I would watch those two get on an elevator and be entertained. I did not get to see as much of the first run as I would have liked but I enjoyed the dynamic.

The part I really enjoy is how Penn treats people. Writes down methods so as not to expose them and like how he treated Gazo worry such respect.

They are carving out a nice niche for themselves.
Message: Posted by: Magicbarry (Jul 7, 2015 11:34AM)
I enjoyed the premier as much as I enjoyed the first season in the UK (which was quite a bit). One of the things I like is that this isn't an ordinary talent-show sort of program -- they bring in some first rate magicians. And the "competition" part is a gimmick, really, because many of the magicians are there to get exposure that they might not otherwise get, and they have no interest in fooling Penn & Teller. When Gazzo was on in season 1, he obviously did not think he was going to fool Penn & Teller with the Cups and Balls. And last night, Jon Armstrong performed Tiny Plunger, which is a marketed effect that has been available for a couple of years. Did he mean to fool them? Doubtful -- he was showing off a fantastic routine.

They're usually pretty good about speaking in code so as not to tip off methods, and I thought Penn did a good job of this with Tiny Plunger. He may have been a little careless with Xavier -- he gave out an easily Googleable term that Jonathan Ross then repeated.

They should record a new opening -- the one they used looked to be from the original series, 105-pounds-of-Penn ago!
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Jul 7, 2015 03:35PM)
I wonder if this has become a platform for people to just promote themselves and/or things they sell. I liked the show (and really like my Tiny Plunger, think it's a great effect), but there was about a 0% chance any of the first three acts would fool them.
Message: Posted by: Magicbarry (Jul 7, 2015 03:51PM)
I think it's a platform for people to promote themselves ... or, to put it another way, for Penn and Teller to promote acts they want people to see. I think that's a good thing. To promote products? I don't recall many magicians appearing with marketed products; Tiny Plunger, sure; Jon Allen's Pain Game, which I think was on the market before Fool Us; Archer started selling Blank Night after appearing on the show, but he was genuinely trying to fool them (and succeeded). But most aren't selling products, and I suspect P&T would avoid having their show become an hour-long commercial.
Message: Posted by: sjbrundage (Jul 7, 2015 03:55PM)
From talking to the producers of the show.... They view the show more as an oppurtunity for Great Magic to be on TV. The "Fooling" part is so that TV people will BITE on the show. A magic competition where the tricks will be revelaed sounds pretty interesting. From my understand if they get fooled its just and added bonus... The producers were extremly Heavy on the don't worry about the fooling part..... Just perform great magic.

After talking with Garrett Thomas about the show.. He said while its a great platform.... but the show is still called "Fool Us" He talked me into bringing everything I had to the table and trying to FRY the heck out of them.. Initially I was just going to perform my best overall routine.
Message: Posted by: Magicbarry (Jul 7, 2015 04:05PM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2015, sjbrundage wrote:
From talking to the producers of the show.... They view the show more as an oppurtunity for Great Magic to be on TV. The "Fooling" part is so that TV people will BITE on the show. A magic competition where the tricks will be revelaed sounds pretty interesting. From my understand if they get fooled its just and added bonus... The producers were extremly Heavy on the don't worry about the fooling part..... Just perform great magic.
[/quote] That's the impression I've always had. I remember John Archer talking about it, and the producers were trying to get him to perform one of his other effects (he himself has said Blank Night isn't his strongest), but he actually wanted to fool them so he went with the one trick he knew was his own method.

[quote]
After talking with Garrett Thomas about the show.. He said while its a great platform.... the show is still called "Fool Us" He talked me into bringing everything I had to the table and trying to FRY the heck out of them.. Initially I was just going to perform my best overall routine. [/quote]


Well, it was a great routine AND it fooled them! Two for two. They didn't even waste any time about it (unless their "discussion" was edited out). Great work, and congrats. Has your appearance as their opening act been scheduled yet?
Message: Posted by: David Todd (Jul 7, 2015 08:09PM)
Congratulations Steven Brundage . Well done (it FOOLED me , too . Loved what you did !)
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 8, 2015 01:01AM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2015, David Todd wrote:
Congratulations Steven Brundage . Well done (it FOOLED me , too . Loved what you did !) [/quote]
+1. Really enjoyed your performance. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Dr. J Maggio (Jul 8, 2015 01:05AM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2015, Magicbarry wrote:
I think it's a platform for people to promote themselves ... or, to put it another way, for Penn and Teller to promote acts they want people to see. I think that's a good thing. To promote products? I don't recall many magicians appearing with marketed products; Tiny Plunger, sure; Jon Allen's Pain Game, which I think was on the market before Fool Us; Archer started selling Blank Night after appearing on the show, but he was genuinely trying to fool them (and succeeded). But most aren't selling products, and I suspect P&T would avoid having their show become an hour-long commercial. [/quote]

Given their libertarian / Ayn Rand silliness, I do not they would mind an hour long commercial at all.... as long as people gotpaid. And I say this though I love P and T, despite hating their college-dorm politics.

Good first episode.

J
Message: Posted by: Dr. J Maggio (Jul 8, 2015 01:11AM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2015, sjbrundage wrote:
From talking to the producers of the show.... They view the show more as an oppurtunity for Great Magic to be on TV. The "Fooling" part is so that TV people will BITE on the show. A magic competition where the tricks will be revelaed sounds pretty interesting. From my understand if they get fooled its just and added bonus... The producers were extremly Heavy on the don't worry about the fooling part..... Just perform great magic.

After talking with Garrett Thomas about the show.. He said while its a great platform.... but the show is still called "Fool Us" He talked me into bringing everything I had to the table and trying to FRY the heck out of them.. Initially I was just going to perform my best overall routine. [/quote]

Yeah, I was expectig Doug Henning. And I got a miracle. My girlfriend ad I were stunned. In the other acts I was way ahead. "Ok, he is using ONE-AHEAD plus a force, plus disappearing inc.. etc)

I could follow most of the plunger guy, but some parts stumped me... but I could tell Penn was talking in code.

The pantomine guys was lovely. But he obviously would not fool them. But I loved him too.

Really only SHOCKER bored me, and was not deceptive at all

But you were blatantly poetic with that rubric cube.
Message: Posted by: sjbrundage (Jul 8, 2015 05:18PM)
[quote]On Jul 8, 2015, Dr. J Maggio wrote:
[quote]On Jul 7, 2015, sjbrundage wrote:
From talking to the producers of the show.... They view the show more as an oppurtunity for Great Magic to be on TV. The "Fooling" part is so that TV people will BITE on the show. A magic competition where the tricks will be revelaed sounds pretty interesting. From my understand if they get fooled its just and added bonus... The producers were extremly Heavy on the don't worry about the fooling part..... Just perform great magic.

After talking with Garrett Thomas about the show.. He said while its a great platform.... but the show is still called "Fool Us" He talked me into bringing everything I had to the table and trying to FRY the heck out of them.. Initially I was just going to perform my best overall routine. [/quote]

Yeah, I was expectig Doug Henning. And I got a miracle. My girlfriend ad I were stunned. In the other acts I was way ahead. "Ok, he is using ONE-AHEAD plus a force, plus disappearing inc.. etc)

I could follow most of the plunger guy, but some parts stumped me... but I could tell Penn was talking in code.

The pantomine guys was lovely. But he obviously would not fool them. But I loved him too.

Really only SHOCKER bored me, and was not deceptive at all

But you were blatantly poetic with that rubric cube. [/quote]

THank you for the very kind words. That routine has been in the works for quite a few years. Looks completly different 3 years ago than it does today.
Message: Posted by: Ba Ba Booey (Jul 12, 2015 01:37PM)
[quote]On Jul 7, 2015, Nash wrote:
I might be biased but this season looks promising! The acts on Ep.1 were phenomenal, super entertaining and have a great variety.
Looking forward to the rest of this season! [/quote]


Nash, when are you going to be on? (I'm assuming that is why you are biased)
Message: Posted by: Magicbarry (Jul 15, 2015 12:21PM)
Is it just me, or did Penn seem a little at being fooled by Leon & Romy's card trick? After being told Romy walking across the stage had nothing to do with it, he immediately launched into a very detailed description of the potential method, which is atypical, given that he normally speaks in code.

During season 1 there were accusations that one of the acts had purposely faked a sleight to throw P&T off. Perhaps he felt they'd been burned by a similar deception? (Granted, it's tougher to accuse the act of that sort of thing this time around; the season 1 incident looked more suspicious.)
Message: Posted by: Dr. J Maggio (Jul 15, 2015 07:41PM)
He seemed a tad annoyed.
Message: Posted by: RogerTheShrubber (Jul 16, 2015 09:19AM)
I was more surprised by the first episode of the new season when Penn claimed that he was fooled by Tiny Plunger and that the only reason Jon Armstrong didn't fool them was that Penn happened to team up with Teller about 40 years ago. As was pointed out in an earlier post in the thread by Magicbarry, it's a marketed effect that's been around for two years. Am I the only one here finding it hard to believe Penn didn't know the trick?
Message: Posted by: Ba Ba Booey (Jul 16, 2015 10:25PM)
Perhaps Penn just wanted to give Jon high praise for a good presentation. I see a lot of magic, but that was the first time I've ever seen Tiny Plunger performed. I've read about it. I've seen the reviews, but I hadn't seen it performed before then. The second time was last Monday evening when Master Payne performed it at a show in Seattle.
Message: Posted by: zoescout (Jul 20, 2015 01:28AM)
Good show - good first episode!
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 20, 2015 07:45AM)
[quote]On Jul 16, 2015, RogerTheShrubber wrote:
I was more surprised by the first episode of the new season when Penn claimed that he was fooled by Tiny Plunger and that the only reason Jon Armstrong didn't fool them was that Penn happened to team up with Teller about 40 years ago. As was pointed out in an earlier post in the thread by Magicbarry, it's a marketed effect that's been around for two years. Am I the only one here finding it hard to believe Penn didn't know the trick? [/quote]
Well, to be fair, I doubt that P&T are scouring through the magic catalogs for tricks at this point in their careers.
They were also fooled by a Simon Aronson effect which has been in print for a decade now--that's the one that I was surprised that they didn't know.
Message: Posted by: noble1 (Jul 20, 2015 10:23AM)
I think it's been said before, and I believe the fact is the "Fool Us" concept is more about being a great presentational vehicle for getting quality magic on TV than it is about truly fooling P&T. It's showbiz.
Message: Posted by: RogerTheShrubber (Jul 21, 2015 12:27PM)
[quote]On Jul 20, 2015, landmark wrote:
[quote]On Jul 16, 2015, RogerTheShrubber wrote:
I was more surprised by the first episode of the new season when Penn claimed that he was fooled by Tiny Plunger and that the only reason Jon Armstrong didn't fool them was that Penn happened to team up with Teller about 40 years ago. As was pointed out in an earlier post in the thread by Magicbarry, it's a marketed effect that's been around for two years. Am I the only one here finding it hard to believe Penn didn't know the trick? [/quote]
Well, to be fair, I doubt that P&T are scouring through the magic catalogs for tricks at this point in their careers.
They were also fooled by a Simon Aronson effect which has been in print for a decade now--that's the one that I was surprised that they didn't know. [/quote]

But they certainly subscribe to all the major magic magazines, I'd think. I know Tiny Plunger has been covered in at least one. And if they're hosting a show called "Fool Us," even if the show is far more about promotion than it is about fooling them, I'd think they'd do their best to be up to date. Nobody ever accused them of a shoddy work ethic.

Maybe you're right, maybe Penn wasn't following the latest stuff and was fooled. Anything's possible. I really wish I knew, though.

Anyway, what was the Aronson effect? And do you recall who fooled them with it?
Message: Posted by: Magicbarry (Jul 21, 2015 03:32PM)
[quote]On Jul 21, 2015, RogerTheShrubber wrote:

Anyway, what was the Aronson effect? And do you recall who fooled them with it? [/quote]

It was Graham Jolley performing Aronson's Prior Commitment.
Message: Posted by: David Todd (Jul 22, 2015 06:57AM)
Congrats to Handsome Jack (John Lovick) for fooling Penn & Teller on the most recent episode of Fool Us. (Series 2 , Episode 3) .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJL0L7Zsyhc

He performed his torn and restored handbill , with a "hello, sucker" explanation , then a last minute restoration of the torn pieces and immediately handed out the restored handbill to Teller to examine. Very clean. This handling stumped P & T .

I read on another forum that John apparently covered the torn and restored handbill on his Penguin Live lecture last year , but I'm not sure if he covered the kicker ending that he used to fool P & T.
Message: Posted by: chappy (Jul 23, 2015 05:00AM)
John's performance was fantastic. One of the most entertaining acts I have seen on FU.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 23, 2015 07:03AM)
[quote]On Jul 22, 2015, David Todd wrote:

I read on another forum that John apparently covered the torn and restored handbill on his Penguin Live lecture last year , but I'm not sure if he covered the kicker ending that he used to fool P & T. [/quote]
Yes, he did.
Message: Posted by: RogerTheShrubber (Jul 24, 2015 04:17AM)
[quote]On Jul 21, 2015, Magicbarry wrote:
[quote]On Jul 21, 2015, RogerTheShrubber wrote:

Anyway, what was the Aronson effect? And do you recall who fooled them with it? [/quote]

It was Graham Jolley performing Aronson's Prior Commitment. [/quote]

Thanks. Very much appreciated.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 27, 2015 11:45PM)
Last night's show: I wondered where Mac King was going with the chop cup routine (was that supposed to fool P&T?), but I really enjoyed his guinea pig stunt. Gotta say, I didn't see [i]that[/i] coming!

The mentalist was very boring and generic, even though she had red hair and tattoos; the 16 year old was a little more competent and exciting, but definitely 16 years old; and Norman Ng had a nice take on [i]that[/i] principle (how did he disguise it so well?), but the actual fork bending itself could have been better I thought.

Finally, I had a lot of fun watching Penn and Teller's knife throwing act. Mrs. landmark objected to the fact that it wasn't magic, but I was happy that it was a little essay about deception and perception a la Paper Balls Over the Head.
Message: Posted by: pepka (Jul 29, 2015 02:17AM)
Mac was hilarious. The routine is also based on work by Jennings and Swain. The kid did a really good job. Anyone else notice that something was cut from his performance? Penn referenced Twisting the Aces with a Dingle handling. The only act that fooled ME was Alison's drawing duplication. It's just not my area of expertise.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 29, 2015 07:08AM)
I guess that's the fun part of magic. You can be very familiar with one area of magic and have no idea about others. I haven't the slightest idea of how the big illusions are done--and I think I like being naive that way.
Message: Posted by: Nejuta (Jul 29, 2015 08:50AM)
Can anyone help with resources where I can find description of "bending painted fork" performed by Norman Ng ?
Message: Posted by: landmark (Jul 29, 2015 09:24AM)
Penn already told you.
Message: Posted by: Ba Ba Booey (Aug 1, 2015 01:19AM)
Just Google everything Penn says, and you'll come up with a boatload of references. I'd tell you myself, but soon I'll be gone (out to a fine noon-time meal).
Message: Posted by: landmark (Aug 11, 2015 08:28PM)
I liked Jen Kramer this week--nice girl-next-door appeal. I thought Penn's assessment of her was very good:

[youtube]uw9ygIhOWvI[/youtube]

Jay Sankey...I can't say I was ever a big fan, but we all know that he can be [i]much[/i] funnier and [i]much[/i] more interesting than he was in this performance. Very restrained and vanilla. It was basically product placement as far as I could tell. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it would have made for much better television if Sankey were actually trying for a Vegas spot.

The Greg/Mark/Nani Wilson routine was a fun nostalgic aw shucks segment.
Message: Posted by: Magicbarry (Aug 12, 2015 11:18AM)
The show has been renewed for 2016.
Message: Posted by: Ba Ba Booey (Aug 17, 2015 12:17AM)
To get a few more details on the background of the show, I suggest reading the article in the latest MUM magazine by Michael Close, who also acted as a consultant on the show. Excellent article.
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Aug 18, 2015 03:16AM)
On the August 17th show, Frederick Falk got a bad decision. The watch is not gimmicked the way that Penn described.
Message: Posted by: Ba Ba Booey (Aug 18, 2015 10:07AM)
Kostya Kimlat crushed it last night! I loved Penn's reaction.
Message: Posted by: jeremysexton (Aug 18, 2015 12:33PM)
Kostya's Triumph… holy smokes. That was insane. I felt Penn's pain on that one. I knew exactly where it was going, but there was nothing for me to grab onto as far as how in the world he was going to get there. That was stunning.
Message: Posted by: Alex McInroy (Aug 18, 2015 01:28PM)
I loved Kostya's "Anti-Triumph." He broke every single rule for the routine and still made it work. But am I missing something here? I had a pretty good guess of what he was going to do based on his reputation and I'm pretty sure that's what happened. If he used some other method, he fooled me. Either way I'm glad he got through, I'm just surprised P&T didn't guess the one method he's so well known for.
Message: Posted by: jeremysexton (Aug 18, 2015 01:49PM)
Ah, I'd not heard of him before but just stumbled upon volumes 1 and 2 of his work on the move he likely did there. Might just have to add those to my library.
Message: Posted by: Alex McInroy (Aug 18, 2015 02:21PM)
I was sort of thinking maybe he'd do that routine and then solve it with a gaff/cooler/etc. but I'm pretty sure he didn't do that. I love that he got through though. It's one of the few examples of a "legit" triumph.
Message: Posted by: KristoBall (Aug 18, 2015 07:30PM)
So I mean... I love this show. But falk just used Joshua jay's effect. I much prefer original material and hope the show doesn't continue to have randomly perform other peoples' creations - which seems to be an upsetting trend this season. Much prefer it when creators like Kostya (which was awesome)
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Aug 18, 2015 09:16PM)
I am happy to see more and more magicians (on this show and other TV appearances) using Phoenix Brand Playing Cards. The fact that they are seen on TV helps them not look so "out of the ordinary" although the few times I have even been asked about them, I just say "I picked these up at the dollar store cheap" and once (only once) someone commented on the space on one side (the built in one way feature) and I quickly came back with "That is probably why they were so cheap at the dollar store - factory misprints" no more questions :-)
Message: Posted by: KristoBall (Aug 18, 2015 09:49PM)
Hi Poof, replied to your PM but thought I should correct my post here as well - it seems I mixed up performer names and was a bit ambiguous in my critique. I was meaning to comment on the watch performance - I didn't rewatch to snag the performner's actual name - but that watch trick was revealed, among other ways, on Joshua Jay's Penguin LIVE lecture. I guess my larger point - and I am a huge fan of this show, and Wizard Wars (Masters of Illusion, not so much, except perhaps for a handful of standout routines and some unintentional comedy from Dean Cain) - is that I much prefer it when you see an inventor like Farquhar showcase original material to try to fool them. One trick, created by the performer - that's the best setup I think. Buying a trick on Penguin and performing it for Penn & Teller doesn't seem that compelling (at least to magicians who know things like this). It also feels like taking credit for the inventor's work unless you REALLY change up the routine and make it your own. The watch routine is one I do for friends in my living room. He added the coins, but that doesn't change (or in my opinion add to) the effect at all. Same goes for Simon Pegg - maybe the producers thought it needed punching up. If anything, unless Jay was involved in this somehow from a support perspective, I think if I created a trick and saw someone else use it nearly ver batim to fool P&T and win prizes... I'd be a little miffed. Just my two cents. Hoping the show gets back to highlighting original creations and single effects. Though even if it doesn't, I'll still tune in, as it is wonderfully done otherwise and it's terrific to see magic enjoying the spotlight on TV.
Message: Posted by: KristoBall (Aug 18, 2015 09:51PM)
Wow - lots of unintentional puns in that last post - watch/rewatch, coins/change - I guess I'm ready to start naming magic tricks.
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Aug 19, 2015 12:11AM)
[quote]On Aug 18, 2015, KristoBall wrote:
Hi Poof, replied to your PM but thought I should correct my post here as well - it seems I mixed up performer names and was a bit ambiguous in my critique. I was meaning to comment on the watch performance - I didn't rewatch to snag the performner's actual name - but that watch trick was revealed, among other ways, on Joshua Jay's Penguin LIVE lecture. I guess my larger point - and I am a huge fan of this show, and Wizard Wars (Masters of Illusion, not so much, except perhaps for a handful of standout routines and some unintentional comedy from Dean Cain) - is that I much prefer it when you see an inventor like Farquhar showcase original material to try to fool them. One trick, created by the performer - that's the best setup I think. Buying a trick on Penguin and performing it for Penn & Teller doesn't seem that compelling (at least to magicians who know things like this). It also feels like taking credit for the inventor's work unless you REALLY change up the routine and make it your own. The watch routine is one I do for friends in my living room. He added the coins, but that doesn't change (or in my opinion add to) the effect at all. Same goes for Simon Pegg - maybe the producers thought it needed punching up. If anything, unless Jay was involved in this somehow from a support perspective, I think if I created a trick and saw someone else use it nearly ver batim to fool P&T and win prizes... I'd be a little miffed. Just my two cents. Hoping the show gets back to highlighting original creations and single effects. Though even if it doesn't, I'll still tune in, as it is wonderfully done otherwise and it's terrific to see magic enjoying the spotlight on TV. [/quote]

Although Joshua teaches this (apparently all over the place - live lectures, online lectures, wherever), the watch effect is by Liam Montier. Even on vanishingincmagic it says, "Created by Liam Montier, with Andi Gladwin and Joshua Jay".

If you don't want to see someone else perform your trick, don't sell it.

Penn didn't correctly describe how the watch was gimmicked - it's definitely not what he was describing where you have a watch that doesn't change the time by twisting the crown (the dial on the side). I think that Frederick Falk should have gotten the trophy.
Message: Posted by: theleehathaway (Aug 19, 2015 06:42AM)
Sorry, but I don't believe for a moment that this fooled P&T. The technique on display here is well known to any fairly well read card magician - and whilst it's true that Kostya does it beautifully and invisibly, he's also well known for being amongst the best - if not - the best in the world at it. It's also true that it feels like real magic to watch (even when you know what's going on - and I've seen him do it live many times) BUT with this and recently Greg Wilson being declared as 'Foolers' it does feel slightly disingenuous to the few of us that *actually* created something that fooled them.
Message: Posted by: KristoBall (Aug 19, 2015 08:24AM)
Bart's - thanks for they clarification on the original source of the effect! I agree whole heartedly with your post. However I still don't think that should have counted as a "fooled us" moment - for if able to inspect the watch I believe they would have quickly deduced HOW it was gimmicked (which didn't look so hot with its TV closeup by the way). You are probably right about not selling the trick if you don't want others to perform it - just seeing it used in a competition that I think is primarily intended for original material is disappointing, that's all. I still love the show.
Message: Posted by: David Todd (Aug 19, 2015 08:46AM)
[quote]On Aug 19, 2015, theleehathaway wrote:
Sorry, but I don't believe for a moment that this fooled P&T. The technique on display here is well known to any fairly well read card magician - and whilst it's true that Kostya does it beautifully and invisibly, he's also well known for being amongst the best - if not - the best in the world at it. It's also true that it feels like real magic to watch (even when you know what's going on - and I've seen him do it live many times) BUT with this and recently Greg Wilson being declared as 'Foolers' it does feel slightly disingenuous to the few of us that *actually* created something that fooled them. [/quote]

I wonder if Kostaya's flawless technique really did fool them (or at least fooled Penn !), or if they simply decided not to get into the specifics which would involve exposure ? I do think Season 1 was stronger in terms of the magicians who appeared on the show actually working hard to FOOL (really fool) Penn & Teller . When the production moved from the UK to Las Vegas for Season 2 I think the emphasis shifted to presenting some great magic acts (Mac King for example) who had absolutely no intention of "fooling" P & T , but were booked purely for entertainment value (nothing wrong with that , but the "contest" aspect of the show has now been undermined.) However, I am glad that the show is continuing . It's nice to see so much great magic on television.


.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Aug 19, 2015 10:04AM)
Aaarrghh! Pre-empted here in New York due to Major League Baseball. Whatever [i]that[/i] is.


[quote]I wonder if Kostaya's flawless technique really did fool them (or at least fooled Penn !), or if they simply decided not to get into the specifics which would involve exposure ?[/quote]

C'mon, do you really think that if they knew the method, Penn could resist comments like "That almost slid by us" or "Doing what you did that well is what separates the pros from the amateurs"?

And so on.
Message: Posted by: Alex McInroy (Aug 19, 2015 10:12AM)
Some other people have mentioned, and I'm inclined to agree, that the producers probably never wanted a show entirely about fooling Penn and Teller. Take away the fooling aspect and you get the same great magic with a much smaller audience. So they have a show presenting great magic with a "schtick" that really gets people sucked in. I love Wizard Wars but I remember being disappointed when Penn and Teller didn't dissect one of the acts. I was genuinely interested in whether they were fooled.

But more importantly, I think as long as 1 or 2 acts are really trying to fool P&T each show, they're in a good place. There were some acts on season 1 that were all about fooling through many moving parts with no intention of ever being entertaining. That is far worse in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: KristoBall (Aug 19, 2015 11:16AM)
Yeah good point - on season 1 there were a ton of acts that ripped rapid fire through mini effects, if you will, or cloaking the real method by apparently tipping false ones - like winning on a technicality. Also agree that the larger conceit is to get entertaining magic on TV moreso than being a competition to win a Vegas spot. Maybe by season 3 it will all come together with these little refinements. I think the host Jonathan Ross does a very nice job.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 19, 2015 12:16PM)
[quote]On Aug 18, 2015, Poof-Daddy wrote:
I am happy to see more and more magicians (on this show and other TV appearances) using Phoenix Brand Playing Cards. The fact that they are seen on TV helps them not look so "out of the ordinary" although the few times I have even been asked about them, I just say "I picked these up at the dollar store cheap" and once (only once) someone commented on the space on one side (the built in one way feature) and I quickly came back with "That is probably why they were so cheap at the dollar store - factory misprints" no more questions :-) [/quote]

So them being used specifically on a magic special on TV and nowhere else somehow makes them seem less "out of the ordinary" to you? OK.
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Aug 19, 2015 11:44PM)
Penn Talks About Being Fooled by Kostya Kimlat on Fool Us

[youtube]MuKail7Jwwg[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Aug 19, 2015 11:50PM)
[quote]On Aug 19, 2015, KristoBall wrote:
Bart's - thanks for they clarification on the original source of the effect! I agree whole heartedly with your post. However I still don't think that should have counted as a "fooled us" moment - for if able to inspect the watch I believe they would have quickly deduced HOW it was gimmicked (which didn't look so hot with its TV closeup by the way). You are probably right about not selling the trick if you don't want others to perform it - just seeing it used in a competition that I think is primarily intended for original material is disappointing, that's all. I still love the show. [/quote]

I like the show a lot as well. Even if people aren't trying to fool P&T, it's great to have a show with entertaining magic that's not trying to be about pranks, camera tricks, stooges, etc.

Regarding whether or not he should have received the coveted FU trophy, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If they inspected the watch, they would see a watch with no hands, where they could turn the crown as much as they wanted. If saying the watch was gimmicked and wrongly describing how it was gimmicked was good enough, why not just say that Kostya used sleight of hand and have that be enough?
Message: Posted by: Alex McInroy (Aug 20, 2015 09:38AM)
[quote]On Aug 20, 2015, barts185 wrote:
[quote]On Aug 19, 2015, KristoBall wrote:
Bart's - thanks for they clarification on the original source of the effect! I agree whole heartedly with your post. However I still don't think that should have counted as a "fooled us" moment - for if able to inspect the watch I believe they would have quickly deduced HOW it was gimmicked (which didn't look so hot with its TV closeup by the way). You are probably right about not selling the trick if you don't want others to perform it - just seeing it used in a competition that I think is primarily intended for original material is disappointing, that's all. I still love the show. [/quote]

I like the show a lot as well. Even if people aren't trying to fool P&T, it's great to have a show with entertaining magic that's not trying to be about pranks, camera tricks, stooges, etc.

Regarding whether or not he should have received the coveted FU trophy, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. If they inspected the watch, they would see a watch with no hands, where they could turn the crown as much as they wanted. If saying the watch was gimmicked and wrongly describing how it was gimmicked was good enough, why not just say that Kostya used sleight of hand and have that be enough? [/quote]

I think they sort of had to know how it was gimmicked because he showed them. I feel Penn may have been referring to the fact that most people don't wear analog watches and even if they did, he couldn't borrow them. I caught the move he did but I was looking for a switch that never came. If he had not had the hands vanish, I think Penn and Teller would have guessed wrong and maybe he could have eked his way through.

Also, that video above explains a lot. Thanks for posting.
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Aug 20, 2015 09:49AM)
I'm also surprised Kostya's version of Triumph fooled Teller - if it really did. Kostya is so well known for his culling technique. That was great, though. They seemed to be genuinely fooled.

I'm wondering what Rising Card effect that was with a Phoenix deck? Anyone know what that was??

Robert
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Aug 20, 2015 10:41AM)
A nice write-up by Kostya about this and magic in general:

https://thinklikeamagician.wordpress.com/2015/08/20/how-i-got-penn-high/
Message: Posted by: michaelmystic2003 (Aug 20, 2015 12:02PM)
Everyone always talks about how famous the work of some of the magicians on the show is. Don't forget that, while Penn and Teller are knowledgable, they have zero reason to invest in anything within current magic culture, especially regarding products and releases. They're not sitting on forums looking at what's hot, they're doing their show.
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Aug 21, 2015 12:32AM)
My favorite excerpt from the article I posted a couple of comments back:

'I don’t like fooling people. I always thought it distasteful for a magician to tell his audience that he was going to fool them. Fooling people is the baseline of magic and I thought it was an unspoken assumption that that’s what was happening. I would never verbalize it because it would create a “me vs. you” relationship, and that doesn’t make for a positive, artistic experience.'


If every magician felt this way, our art would be so much better respected and appreciated.
Message: Posted by: Nash (Aug 21, 2015 02:26PM)
Kostya legit fooled Penn & Teller - actually, he fooled Teller :)
But for the skeptics who think PT are faking.
1.) They are doing their shows as Michaelmystic2003 said. So it isn't a surprise that sometimes they are not as updated on what has been released
2.) The general public has no idea which magician is what we considered "magician's magician". Even if they 'faked' being fooled to give them respect and the recognition they deserve from the general public, then GREAT!!! This would be a rare moment when magicians actually helping magicians
Message: Posted by: Ba Ba Booey (Aug 22, 2015 04:05PM)
Check out the link that Barts185 posted. Kostya has some good stuff to say there, and there's also a link to an interview of Penn AND Teller that is quite telling.
Message: Posted by: Ba Ba Booey (Aug 23, 2015 12:12PM)
Here's a nice article about the last episode:
http://community.ew.com/2015/08/18/penn-teller-favorite-card-trick/
Message: Posted by: RogerTheShrubber (Aug 24, 2015 03:39AM)
I just find it hard to believe that the stars of a show like Fool Us aren't keeping up with the newest things in magic, at least to some extent. Who among us, if we were starring on that show, would take on magicians trying to fool us and completely ignore what's going on with the latest developments in magic? And even if you could convince me Penn isn't keeping up with this stuff, I'll never believe Teller isn't. Penn was fooled by Tiny Plunger when only the newest users of this board were? These guys who have forgotten more about magic than a lot of us will know and gained all that knowledge because of a passion for the art are just doing their show and ignoring the new stuff? No, not buying it.

I know some of you disagree, I'm not trying to be disrespectful or hostile to anyone who does and I'm not making a conscious choice to cling to my skepticism - I just can't get rid of it. "They're just doing their show" makes no sense, not to me anyway. Magic magazines are trade journals to these guys, tax-deductible to boot, and these are the kind of guys who would read this kind of stuff for fun as well as to keep up. Who would work for 40 years to get to their reputation and level of knowledge and then not keep up, choosing to "just do their show" instead?
Message: Posted by: mumford (Aug 24, 2015 03:00PM)
P&T are busy constantly doing tv, directing various plays, writing/producing/directing doc films, writing books, doing interviews, broadway, vegas, etc. The are in real show biz. When it comes to their own material it seems to be envisioned by them and as far as I can see not influenced in the least by the latest magic trick being marketed. My guess is that they never see a magic magazine and a tax deduction isn't much of an enticement.
Message: Posted by: Kabbalah (Aug 24, 2015 03:11PM)
Teller is a magic historian, I doubt there is much that goes under his radar.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Aug 24, 2015 06:31PM)
I just can't understand why they're not posting on the Café also. Slackers.
Message: Posted by: Ba Ba Booey (Aug 26, 2015 07:09PM)
One can only post on so many forums.
Message: Posted by: michaelmystic2003 (Aug 27, 2015 11:53AM)
They're two busy artists. They don't give a flying !@#$ about the magic market.
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Aug 31, 2015 07:46PM)
David Roth did an outstanding job :-)
Message: Posted by: landmark (Aug 31, 2015 09:03PM)
I thought Jade was the best of show tonight.

It was hard to watch David Roth's tremors, knowing how wonderful he used to be. I assume it was due to infirmity and not nerves. The vanishes were fun.
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Aug 31, 2015 09:11PM)
I was impressed by the kid. If he keeps with it, he may go somewhere. He really seemed at ease in that big of a crowd. (the little "2 faced" liar) :-) (GT would have been proud)
Message: Posted by: JLemoine (Sep 2, 2015 05:39AM)
Jade's performance was nice and I really enjoyed watching David Roth performing.
The only part I really disliked was Ran'd Shine's.
Coming to this show to do a commercial trick -Claude Rix's Révélation(s)- without adding anything, not even a nice presentation... what's the point?
Of course, it's ok when it's a 13 years old boy who does that, but Ran'd Shine is not, and when you brag about performing around the world, doing magic for presidents, etc. I mean... come on!
It ****es me off, because I'm sure he can do much better than a commercial trick anybody could do (you just have to buy it in a magic shop).
I kinda felt the same way when I saw Matthew Holtzclaw doing Wayne Houchin's Thread. Even though I really appreciated his presentation, I thought "what's the point" and was disappointed that Houchin's name wasn't cited.
And, of course, I kinda felt the same too when some magician whose name I can't remember won Britain's got talent with Dan Harlan's Card-toon.

It's just sad.
Message: Posted by: JLemoine (Sep 2, 2015 05:44AM)
That awkward moment when Jonathan Ross asked Ran'd Shine if he had invented or added something new to the trick for being so confident he could fool them...
Message: Posted by: Robert M (Sep 2, 2015 07:06PM)
I've been involved in magic for 50+ years and I've never heard of Claude Ricks (sp?)? Anyone?

Two outcomes? I'm not ashamed to say that I was fooled.

Robert
Message: Posted by: Ihop (Sep 2, 2015 10:01PM)
[quote]On Aug 31, 2015, Poof-Daddy wrote:
David Roth did an outstanding job :-) [/quote]

I agree, David Roth was great.
I was watching with my wife and I explained that he is a legend in coin magic. She asked, what was wrong with his hands.
I then noticed that his hands looked arthritic, and shaped like a claw. Is it arthritis or something else?
Mr. Roth is one of the top coin magicians in the world and I own one of his books and a few DVDs. And a gentleman.
I hope he is well.
Message: Posted by: JLemoine (Sep 3, 2015 03:26AM)
[quote]On Sep 2, 2015, Robert M wrote:
I've been involved in magic for 50+ years and I've never heard of Claude Ricks (sp?)? Anyone?

Two outcomes? I'm not ashamed to say that I was fooled.

Robert [/quote]

It's Claude RIX (as I said in my post). You can search his name on the Café and find out some of his stuff.
He's a French magician, famous for the great work he did on the memorized deck (he is cited by Tamariz in Mnemonica), for his "beggar's pearls" and for this trick, "Revelation(s)".
He was a very, very close friend of Fred Kaps, Pavel, Ali Bongo... With Fred Kaps, he invented a sort of friendly competition ("Le fruit d'or de Montaneuf") which was actually more a meeting of famous magicians hold at his house in the French countryside (in the Champagne region). Tomy Wonder went there (among others).
There is a very good article about him in the July 2011 of Magic magazine.
http://www.magicmagazine.com/july11/july11contents.html

Revelation(s) was reviewed in the Wizard Product Review.
It is an improvement of a trick which has been long attributed to Fred Kaps (in French, we call the trick "Le dé de Fred Kaps", or "Fred Kaps' dice") but it was indeed invented by Rix.
The guy on fool us didn't add or change a single thing to the trick (and I think it's a shame).
Message: Posted by: mclose (Sep 4, 2015 11:12AM)
In the original Rix trick, I don't believe it is possible to spread out the entire deck face up before the revelation of the selected card.
Message: Posted by: JLemoine (Sep 4, 2015 06:57PM)
Yes it is.
You can even see Rix doing it in the presentation.
As they say : "With this new version you can finally show all the deck before you start, during and at the end."

https://youtu.be/MdB6CBIFYBc
Message: Posted by: KristoBall (Sep 7, 2015 10:07AM)
Agreed on all points - kid was great, disappointing to see commercial effects (and yes that awkward moment), david roth was wonderful but little sad to see the shakes. mostly though, I was hoping to learn whether what David thought might fool them (the final vanish of the four coins) actually did. perhaps it was editing but they didn't specifically address that one point - just gave him a FOOLED US award out of respect (similar to Mark Wilson). The premise of the award was flawed as in the past (I'm thinking of the iPad magician) they said the same thing - he fooled them, so they figured it out months earlier - just like with Roth, they read his books so knew what he was doing. I have no issue with the ceremonial FOOLED US award - just wish they had answered if they were indeed fooled by the one part Roth thought might be new to them. Would have been fun to know.
Message: Posted by: spectrahue (Sep 8, 2015 07:40AM)
For me the great thing about this series is the chance it gives the performer to perform not only in front of a millions of viewers but Penn & Teller themselves ....If you fool them you get the Job ...that's it !

Pure and simple and I love it when I see Penn & Teller have that look of bewilderment ...........its what I strive for when I perform.

The crazy thing is I know how the tricks I perform work and even I can amaze myself .....

er emm p.s ordered that blasted cube thing thanks to Steven. I did used to know the moves to solve it and then ....well ....everyone back in the 80s had one and it was no big thing.

I had one sat on my drawers for 3 years ..no use for it ..then Fool Us season 2 and yes ...there it is , a cool reason to have one again and not look nerdy.

Love Fool Us ...a pity its not airing in the UK though .

best wishes Nic
Message: Posted by: Jerskin (Sep 11, 2015 05:08PM)
They have Johnny Thompson as a consultant with an earpiece to Penn.
So, I lot of the keeping up with new things is his job.
Message: Posted by: pepka (Sep 16, 2015 04:53AM)
I knew the trick immediately because it is by a friend of mine and Randy's, Marc Desouza. It's called Die of Destiny and is based on a Claude Rix routine. Marc recently had the addition of spreading the whole deck at the end. The two endings line was code. The trick only has one ending.
Message: Posted by: JLemoine (Sep 16, 2015 03:21PM)
Desouza's Die of Destiny is base on Rix's "Magic Die" routine, yes, but it wasn't the trick that Ran'd Shine performed.
It was "Révélation(s)" by Claude Rix (which is an improvement of his own "Magic Die" routine).
The two endings line was a clear allusion to Révélation(s) (I cannot say more without revealing the way it works).
Message: Posted by: MagicofDesperado (Sep 16, 2015 03:47PM)
I too was very surprised that Kimlat fooled them. I get fooling Penn but was really surprised it got Teller. I was waiting for end work and was like, yup, expertly done but by no means fooling IMO. Good job to Kostya then, he managed to slip it by and it was good magic.

Dartagnan
Message: Posted by: JLemoine (Sep 17, 2015 04:49AM)
I really enjoyed the last show.
I liked Joel Myers & Spidey very much: good trick and excellent presentation, very funny.
Rick Lax: If he really didn't do what Penn said (no cooler and no... "dots", let's say it that way), he fooled me too (I guess putting the deck in his pocket was done to fool magicians), but (and I wanna stress the fact that it's just my personal feeling) I've never really liked his style (although he once wrote a paper about women in magic which was just brilliant) and I thought it was kinda boring. But, once again, it's just my personal feeling.
Marcus Eddie: I didn't really like the "follow your dream" stuff, but that was a really nice trick, nicely thought and nicely done (and I really appreciated the fact that he invented it himself)
Bruce Gold : Of course, it's not a magicians' fooler but, God, what a presentation! Must be one of the funniest acts I've seen. Loved it.
Message: Posted by: pepka (Sep 17, 2015 05:46AM)
I disagree what the line 2 endings meant. I spent time with Marc Desouza this past weekend and we discussed it. That is his new addition to the trick.
Message: Posted by: JLemoine (Sep 17, 2015 09:10AM)
Well, I'm sorry pepka, but it seems you don't know how Révélation(s) works (tell me if I'm wrong).

Penn's line was a reference to the way the deck is gaffed. Maybe you'll tell me Desouza (who is a great magician, let's be clear about that) added the same thing as Rix, gaffed the deck the same way Rix did. That's possible.
But you've said Desouza "recently had the addition of spreading the whole deck at the end". How recently? In Desouza's book Deceptions, the deck isn't gaffed the way it is in Révélation(s) and you cannot spread the whole deck.
Révélation(s) allows you to spread the whole deck at any moment and it was issued in 2011.
The trick Ran'd Shine did was purely Révélation(s) by Claude Rix. And I think that's why Penn talked about Rix and not Desouza, I'm sorry.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Sep 17, 2015 05:48PM)
I think you guys are overlooking the selection process Ran'd Shine did- Penn appeared to freely choose any card from the face down spread... you cant do that in Claude Rix's version.

I think that was the touch he added to Revelation(s).
Message: Posted by: pepka (Sep 17, 2015 11:07PM)
To be honest, I've never seen any of the versions by Rix. I do know Marc well and have seen him perform "Die of Destiny" for many years. I just looked up Revelation(s) on Youtube and although it is highly edited, it DOES look like you see many cards, but not that they are all spread out. I know the gaffus that Randy used, and whatever Claude is using in this video...doesn't look like the same thing.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Sep 17, 2015 11:45PM)
You absolutely spread the entire deck face up in Revelation(s), that's how Claude begins the routine
Message: Posted by: pepka (Sep 18, 2015 02:34AM)
Well, then it's a different routine.
Message: Posted by: JLemoine (Sep 18, 2015 03:55AM)
[quote]On Sep 17, 2015, TuneHV wrote:
I think you guys are overlooking the selection process Ran'd Shine did- Penn appeared to freely choose any card from the face down spread... you cant do that in Claude Rix's version.

I think that was the touch he added to Revelation(s). [/quote]
That's correct.
I had overlooked that. :-/
Then, my apologies to Ran'd Shine, he did add something.
Message: Posted by: Marc DeSouza (Dec 20, 2017 03:31PM)
OK, this post is coming very late, but I thought I should at clarify some of this. The version Ran'd did is my latest handling. It is based on Rix's Revelation, which he shared with me long before he ever released it. This new handling uses a concept of Rix's, but the handling is completely different. I shared it with Claude. He said he had played with something similar. I indicated that someone had approached me to market this latest version. Claude indicated that he preferred that I didn't, as he had already reached a deal to market Revelation and there were too many similarities.
When Ran'd asked if he could do my original Die of Destiny handling, which was based on Claude's original version, I offered to allow him to do my new handling. I taught him my specific handling as well as my full script. I also told him the way I thought he should handle it specifically for the show. He decided to modify it and present it his own way. I had no problem with that.
Message: Posted by: mcmc (Apr 23, 2018 09:04PM)
Yeah, lame for Ran'D to pump himself up with all his name dropping, and do an unoriginal, off-the-shelf effect, even with Marc's additions which sound great.
Message: Posted by: Recoplon (Nov 13, 2018 03:50PM)
Wondering if this new handling was or will be eventually released sometime.

[quote]On Dec 20, 2017, Marc DeSouza wrote:
OK, this post is coming very late, but I thought I should at clarify some of this. The version Ran'd did is my latest handling. It is based on Rix's Revelation, which he shared with me long before he ever released it. This new handling uses a concept of Rix's, but the handling is completely different. I shared it with Claude. He said he had played with something similar. I indicated that someone had approached me to market this latest version. Claude indicated that he preferred that I didn't, as he had already reached a deal to market Revelation and there were too many similarities.
When Ran'd asked if he could do my original Die of Destiny handling, which was based on Claude's original version, I offered to allow him to do my new handling. I taught him my specific handling as well as my full script. I also told him the way I thought he should handle it specifically for the show. He decided to modify it and present it his own way. I had no problem with that. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Jul 13, 2019 08:45AM)
[quote]On Aug 11, 2015, landmark wrote:
I liked Jen Kramer this week--nice girl-next-door appeal. I thought Penn's assessment of her was very good:

[youtube]uw9ygIhOWvI[/youtube]

. [/quote]

I might be wrong but is that not the same trick than Penn & Teller fooled David Copperfield
With ?

If so any one know what book that is in ?
Message: Posted by: mclose (Jul 17, 2019 10:46AM)
The trick Jen Kramer did is not the same one P&T did for Copperfield.
Message: Posted by: Martin.Lester (Jul 20, 2019 02:10PM)
Both of the effects must have had Stacked Deck ?

Even though slightly different presentation if anything must be slightly easier for 2 people to perform

As Penn can misdirect while teller located the correct card

Both Great Presentations