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Topic: Young Girl Claiming to be the real deal.
Message: Posted by: ferrismagic (Oct 20, 2015 01:37AM)
Have a look and see what you think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtLkzg8bFgA
Message: Posted by: Sean Giles (Oct 20, 2015 01:41AM)
I think she discovered an interesting property of blindfolds.
Message: Posted by: Nestor D (Oct 20, 2015 02:21AM)
Very pro, she maybe needs a better blindfold (Osterlind's would be a good test condition one) to deal with the skepticism :)
Message: Posted by: Michael Zarek (Oct 20, 2015 02:52AM)
Fakes ain't even tryin anymore these days
Message: Posted by: Mifune (Oct 20, 2015 05:29AM)
[quote]On Oct 20, 2015, Michael Zarek wrote:
Fakes ain't even tryin anymore these days [/quote]

Fakes don't need it. Read the comments in the video. Those who want to believe don't need proof.
Message: Posted by: E.E. (Oct 20, 2015 03:53PM)
Well... if people stopped believing this kind of nonsense, we'd have far less work. :eek:
Message: Posted by: Mifune (Oct 21, 2015 06:29AM)
[quote]On Oct 20, 2015, E.E. wrote:
Well... if people stopped believing this kind of nonsense, we'd have far less work. :eek: [/quote]

I don't think so, I still go to the cinema and I don't believe it's true :)
Message: Posted by: Lseeyou (Oct 21, 2015 06:58AM)
This is the new hype in India - the land of illusions.

Nakul Shenoy is debunking some but like all lies they spread like butter.
Message: Posted by: Amirá (Oct 21, 2015 07:36AM)
I wonder why magicians and mentalist sometimes feels that they are the "ethic police"?

don't you see that doesn't matter if you expose "fakes" ? People will believe whatever they want. What would Mr. Bux think about this?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 21, 2015 07:38AM)
I think she's the next URI GELLER!!!!! Go girl go!!!! You'll be selling out magic conventions by the time you are 30!!!! :bunny:
Message: Posted by: Lseeyou (Oct 21, 2015 08:28AM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, Amirá wrote:
I wonder why magicians and mentalist sometimes feels that they are the "ethic police"?

don't you see that doesn't matter if you expose "fakes" ? People will believe whatever they want. What would Mr. Bux think about this? [/quote]

Because any human being that cares for others cannot stand silent when others are all being conned * doing the right thing became wrong?
Let us know why you stand by what you wrote.

"People believe in whatever they want" What psychology classes have you been into?
Message: Posted by: Steve_Mollett (Oct 21, 2015 09:54AM)
Cognitive bias is quite real.
After tilting at a few windmills, you'll realize this.
Message: Posted by: Four Jakes (Oct 21, 2015 11:08AM)
I think everyone can agree that the music in the video was dope. After that, I kind of have to agree with Amirá, we don't have to debunk, because people are going to believe what they want.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 21, 2015 11:39AM)
Sometimes though, don't you think its healthy to enable people to rethink certain idea(l)s?

Some people believe in homeopathy, and some of died because they stopped regular treatments and stuck with their homeopathy cure. They worsened, regardless of their positive and "this is curing me!" belief, when it wasn't...

What if I believed that heroin was a really great lifestyle choice?
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Oct 21, 2015 01:56PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, Four Jakes wrote:
I think everyone can agree that the music in the video was dope. [/quote]

That opening was pretty great, for sure.

[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, Lseeyou wrote:
Because any human being that cares for others cannot stand silent when others are all being conned * doing the right thing became wrong?[/quote]

When people realized that "the right thing" is not a black and white concept.

There is no 'right thing'. There are, at best, right thing[i]s[/i] and who should be the one who decides which one is best for any individual?

Given that people who believe in something will, in general, never change their mind, and that in general you cannot prove a negative - for the most part the people who claim to be 'saving' others are really just ego-tripping.

You want to help people? Serve food to the homeless, help the poor, volunteer at hospitals, etc.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 21, 2015 02:05PM)
To be clear, I believe the girl to be a fake - she's selling snake oil, she is very good at her job and I applaud her from an entertainment perspective only...if they are "teaching it" and its not teaching mentalism, then they are selling fakery...

you can listen to the opening prayer here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP8Wv1P1NFE
Message: Posted by: Mifune (Oct 21, 2015 02:42PM)
When someone is scamming people I don't see how could be bad to point it out, the thing is that believers wont listen. About homeopathy I had a blog about science, when I explained how homeopathy "worked" I started to receive hundresds of emails saying that I was paid by evil corporations, until I had to get rid of my,fortunately not personal, email.

Now I have a more "Darwinian" view (and I'm more careful with my personal data in internet), problem is when some wrong views (because some topìcs are not debatable,they are science) can harm innocent people. In my country, this year died a 4 years old of an almost extint disease because his parents didn't vaccinate him because, you know, nature is good, science is evil and all that things. So, I repeat, I can't see the bad thing in, like Iain says, to help people to rethink some ideass giving them more information. Maybe I'm ego-tripping but I think that knowledge is always good.


P.S.

If I sound harsh or offended is only due to my bad communication skills in english.
Message: Posted by: Nestor D (Oct 21, 2015 02:58PM)
She is lying for money indeed. Given that she seems not to be selling a cure/homeopathy, is she doing something dangerous for anybody?
(dangerous, not amoral)
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 21, 2015 03:12PM)
I did a little digging, the course she went on, its available via a site - it doesn't list a price, you could probably find out pretty easily...i think the claim is "go on this course and unlock your third eye" - and she then gives demonstrations of using that third eye...

if the course CAN teach that, then that's brilliant...but as with all such claims, for me they fall down on logic before anything else...if they can teach that, it has untold uses elsewhere, where they could a world of good with it...but they don't seem to be doing that, and I always wonder why...

anyway - the word 'science' has now been used, which means a whole load of crazy will soon be arriving, and I've decided to no longet get involved in that, as its such a chronic waste of time...
Message: Posted by: Amirá (Oct 21, 2015 03:58PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, Lseeyou wrote:
[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, Amirá wrote:
I wonder why magicians and mentalist sometimes feels that they are the "ethic police"?

don't you see that doesn't matter if you expose "fakes" ? People will believe whatever they want. What would Mr. Bux think about this? [/quote]

Because any human being that cares for others cannot stand silent when others are all being conned * doing the right thing became wrong?
Let us know why you stand by what you wrote.

"People believe in whatever they want" What psychology classes have you been into? [/quote]


In basic ones when the notion that human beings are emotional beings and not rational.

Who cares if she is fake or not? Or if she is selling snake oil or not? Ethics are not the final solution. A pragmatic perspective in life isn't the best or the only solution to see realities during our existence in this reality that we call "world". So because I know a way to do that act, that means that everyone doing something similar is doing the same?

There are more interesting things in life that trying to be an apparent hero and say others that this girl isn't really using his claimed ability because there is a book that says other manner to do that. Surely, you don't need psychic power to do what she does, and again, who cares?

The person who wants to pay money to learn in his courses...his responsibility, not mine. Maybe she is teaching notion and ideas that are far beyond our understanding as performers, or maybe not.
Message: Posted by: Uli Weigel (Oct 21, 2015 04:19PM)
In other words: just claim anything that supports your opportunism. Have I got that right?
Message: Posted by: Nestor D (Oct 21, 2015 04:21PM)
As long as you don't hurt others.
And obviously don't hurt others because "they need the truth" if they never asked you for it.
Message: Posted by: Mifune (Oct 21, 2015 04:26PM)
I used the word 'science' referring to homeopathy and similars, not directed to this particular case, but I think I know what you mean.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 21, 2015 04:28PM)
Who cares? some of us do...

every one is entitled to care or not care about any thing..just so happens this thread is about this girl and what ideas/possibilities it supports...

there's another element at play too...

mentalism politics - some people don't want to rock the boat and express an opinion just in case someone, somewhere grumble at them and say "you just don't get it!" - well, what if you get it, but don't agree? its ok to express how you feel...even here...and even to people who we may interact with, be friends with despite of those intrinsic differences...

i fundamentally disagree with using certain perceptions, beliefs and methods to create a fake-reality, to help sell a course...which is what this clip is about...

i admire the whole framework, the techniques, how it is delivered - but I do not agree with it being delivered in this way...and I know some people believe in the "buyer beware" idea(l) too - as in, its your own stupid fault if it turns out to be a pile of poo...

is it preaching to the converted? maybe
is it selling a dream? in a way, yes
is it genuine? I believe not - not because we can replicate it, but because the implication of it being real is huge..there are lots of pretty easy and logical questions to think of, that would illustrate this...

so an easy one is this - this vid has been seen by many, many people, the site is up, there's other videos out there...if this can be taught, and it works 100% genuinely, then it would be very easy for (as an example) a person in the military to go and learn it and use it...or a con man to use it and learn PINs and all sorts of things (you could just go into a bank and use your third eye to watch someone write out their sort code and bank account and so on)...

so I also understand the counter-argument, "Ah but iain! how do you know that they DON'T ALREADY!" and at that, I just roll my eyes and mutter "yeah, yeah...", because if it did really work, everyone would be at...and maybe India would not have struggled so much against the Empire...or if its a newer thing to be discovered, they could be in a much better position politically than they are...all kinds of stuff...

it would be great and amazing if it was real, part of me wishes it was real because you could do a lot of good for the entire world with it...everyone would benefit...
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 21, 2015 04:30PM)
Isn't she a "real" Mentalist in that she is using it to scam the public? Isn't that where mentalism comes from? I can't believe anyone with half a brain would hand over $10k on the basis of that performance and the following explanation....The performance and the blindfold was pretty awful by anyone's standards. Surely this is a spoof?
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 21, 2015 04:35PM)
I dunno...i wouldn't say its a spoof...there's too many convincers in there...India still has a beautiful, mystical allure to many people from the west to a degree - there's still plenty of hollwood style swamis, psuedo-life coaches and others who all tie in one way or another, in with that mystic yogi style influence...

so this is a bit like that, to my third-eye anyway...

a lot of people still want to believe in this kind of thing, and there must be a market for it - otherwise the courses wouldn't sell, and the vids wouldn't be up...

doesn't make it right or healthy - but I do think a lot of people buy into the whole experience...
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 21, 2015 04:45PM)
Yes your probably right. I still find it hard to believe. Years ago I thought I had a great idea for a weekend workshop a slant on hypnosis. I called it "insider Secrets". The idea was to teach how the media, marketers,politicians ,religion and even our closest friends family etc have a real impact on us. Not always in a good way. it was going to cover a whole range of things including big time motivational Gurus etc etc and how to identify techniques and patterns around us that can prevent us getting what we want and being used by others . The idea was to be able to take more control over what ends up in our heads. blah blah... But I was really surprised to ( maybe I shouldn't been though) to find out that a lot of people sort of know these things are fake or at least exist but they were happy believing in them. They didn't want to "wake up". I guess its kind of obvious when you think about it. A lot of people prefer to live in a fantasy.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 21, 2015 04:46PM)
Yes I guess you are probably right...
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 21, 2015 05:05PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, Lseeyou wrote:
[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, Amirá wrote:
I wonder why magicians and mentalist sometimes feels that they are the "ethic police"?

don't you see that doesn't matter if you expose "fakes" ? People will believe whatever they want. What would Mr. Bux think about this? [/quote]

Because any human being that cares for others cannot stand silent when others are all being conned * doing the right thing became wrong?
Let us know why you stand by what you wrote.

"People believe in whatever they want" What psychology classes have you been into? [/quote]


Many years ago I thought I had a great idea for a weekend seminar using hypnosis. "Insider Secrets" it was called. It was basically a personal development seminar teaching a kind of self hypnosis and a set of tools to develop a winning mindset. However the core idea was to reveal how we are all affected and even controlled or used to an extent by surrounding external influences. Politics, media, religion, Authority figures etc Even friends and family in some ways keep us where we are. However I came to realize it was a big marketing disaster as most people want to hold on to the dreams they are being sold. In fact a lot of people get angry when you try and point out certain things... That accounts for all those people that buy expensive products that promise the earth but never really complain.... they didn't really buy the results they promised they bought the dream. And for some people a dream is more comfortable than reality.
Message: Posted by: Keith Raygor (Oct 21, 2015 09:29PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, Amirá wrote: There are more interesting things in life that trying to be an apparent hero . . . [/quote]
Evidence of your bias. Maybe "trying to be an apparent hero" has nothing to do with it.

[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, Amirá wrote: Maybe she is teaching notion and ideas that are far beyond our understanding as performers, or maybe not. [/quote]
So toss out judgement? Toss out discernment? Do you think it's unusual for a person to consider whether someone's else's actions could hurt others?
Message: Posted by: truman (Oct 21, 2015 10:37PM)
On one hand, I think that the girl isn't mature enough to be thrust into the position that she's taking. She's a minor, and the rest of her life could be adversely affected by publicly appearing as a "real" whatever-she-is.

On the other hand, I'm wondering what Doc Shiels would say. I like that man and value his judgment.
Message: Posted by: DocBenWiz (Oct 21, 2015 11:26PM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, IAIN wrote:
Sometimes though, don't you think its healthy to enable people to rethink certain idea(l)s?

Some people believe in homeopathy, and some of died because they stopped regular treatments and stuck with their homeopathy cure. They worsened, regardless of their positive and "this is curing me!" belief, when it wasn't...

What if I believed that heroin was a really great lifestyle choice? [/quote]

Is that FREE heroin?...cuz appaeently a heck of a lot of people (probably some who sacrificed a lot), spent $10,000 to gain "third eye enlightenment" and didn't get the "blindfold" sight ability, although maybe they got a lot of Tony Robbins type "confidence" and inspiration!?
:thumbsdown: :exclaim:
Message: Posted by: Gumar Oz DuBar (Oct 22, 2015 12:22AM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, Keith Raygor wrote:
[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, Amirá wrote: There are more interesting things in life that trying to be an apparent hero . . . [/quote]
Evidence of your bias. Maybe "trying to be an apparent hero" has nothing to do with it.

[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, Amirá wrote: Maybe she is teaching notion and ideas that are far beyond our understanding as performers, or maybe not. [/quote]
So toss out judgement? Toss out discernment? Do you think it's unusual for a person to consider whether someone's else's actions could hurt others? [/quote]

What is judgement? Would you say that your judgement is different to that of Hitler's? I should hope you would say that. In which case, judgement is subject to interpretation. (And I think most of us would agree that Hitler's judgement of what the world should be, is, undesirable) I'd be curious to know, however, how you or anyone else against the propagation of these so-called spiritist cons, would answer the following hypothetical question, given the fact that Hitler was a known believer of Pagan and Nordic blood-myths and such. If a potential Hitlerite figure were to be killed due to refusing to take medication, in favor of attending some miracle prayer meeting by unscrupulous Spiritualists, say, would you be morally okay with that? And would these unscrupulous conmen, in this case, be doing something "good" by helping to rid the world of a "bad" person?

I believe your second point to be casuistic because all actions hurt others. When you get a gig, you're hurting the livelihood of another performer who could have gotten that gig and used it to feed himself and his family. And good thing too, because you deserve to eat. All actions are to the benefit of some and to the detriment of others. This is axiomatic.


[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, Mifune wrote:
Now I have a more "Darwinian" view (and I'm more careful with my personal data in internet), problem is when some wrong views (because some topìcs are not debatable,they are science) can harm innocent people. So, I repeat, I can't see the bad thing in, like Iain says, to help people to rethink some ideass giving them more information.[/quote]

While "wrong" views can harm innocent people, and guilty people, "right" views can as well.

Also, wouldn't your views be considered antithetical to Darwinistic views? You're advocating "helping people" who are presumably being conned, by giving them "more information". Would that not be considered the strong (those not being conned) helping the weak, i.e. the opposite of natural selection, the opposite of survival of the fittest? Could I be wrong about that? I'm not a science major, and tonight's my night off, so my keyboard is spinning.


I should note that I have no dog in this race. And, I can hardly see my keyboard properly due to the vertiginous sensation that I experience with a single malt.

Love to all!
Message: Posted by: Mifune (Oct 22, 2015 04:31AM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2015, Gumar Oz DuBar wrote:

While "wrong" views can harm innocent people, and guilty people, "right" views can as well.

Also, wouldn't your views be considered antithetical to Darwinistic views? You're advocating "helping people" who are presumably being conned, by giving them "more information".

Love to all! [/quote]

First, sorry for all my typos in my previous post, I wrote it too fast.

About your first point: I was not referring to this case in particular, nor political views, nor religious views. I referred to medical or scientific missconceptions, so I don't see how a correct information on this topics can harm someone.

About your second point: I wanted to mean that my own behaviour is almost Darwinistic, not that it should be for everyone.


Love to you also!
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 22, 2015 04:49AM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, IAIN wrote:
Sometimes though, don't you think its healthy to enable people to rethink certain idea(l)s?

Some people believe in homeopathy, and some of died because they stopped regular treatments and stuck with their homeopathy cure. They worsened, regardless of their positive and "this is curing me!" belief, when it wasn't...

What if I believed that heroin was a really great lifestyle choice? [/quote]
A good friend of mine embraced "Regular Treatments" with chemotherapy and he died as a result of it. Works both ways...
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 22, 2015 04:59AM)
Yup, people still die of their disease no matter the treatment...however, the science based cure has evidence to back up the percentages and claims and is constantly trying to improve itself...

We've all debated these things countless times before, no point doing it again, we know it goes nowhere...
Message: Posted by: Anthony Black (Oct 22, 2015 05:00AM)
I have a third eye...

But I don't wave it about in public.
Message: Posted by: Keith Raygor (Oct 22, 2015 08:26AM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2015, Gumar Oz DuBar wrote:
What is judgement? Would you say that your judgement is different to that of Hitler's? . . . . Love to all! [/quote]

:)
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Oct 22, 2015 10:37AM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2015, Slim King wrote:
[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, IAIN wrote:
Sometimes though, don't you think its healthy to enable people to rethink certain idea(l)s?

Some people believe in homeopathy, and some of died because they stopped regular treatments and stuck with their homeopathy cure. They worsened, regardless of their positive and "this is curing me!" belief, when it wasn't...

What if I believed that heroin was a really great lifestyle choice? [/quote]
A good friend of mine embraced "Regular Treatments" with chemotherapy and he died as a result of it. Works both ways... [/quote]

Did he die because of the chemotherapy or because of the cancer? Big difference.
Message: Posted by: Tim Cavendish (Oct 22, 2015 02:19PM)
Wow, that was a quick jump to Hitler, just 3 posts into Page 2...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Oct 22, 2015 02:25PM)
Just a thought to mull over here. Something I spend a lot of time thinking about.

Let's not talk about this particular example, but another which is also often mentioned. The idea of the psychic medium who contacts someone's dead relatives.

Let me also specify, I am not referring to the people who gouge their clients for every cent possible.

So you've got a Medium, and a Sitter. The Sitter has lost someone and has been grieving for a year or so. The grief is effecting their life in a negative way, because they just can't get beyond the pain of the loss and move on. They go to see the Medium, who professes to bring messages across the veil, and tells the Sitter that the deceased one is happy on the other side, and that it's time to move on. The Sitter then begins to genuinely move on, having finally gotten the closure.

We have a few possible scenarios here.

A) The Medium genuinely possesses the ability to communicate with the dead.
B) The Medium genuinely believes they possess that ability, but is in fact committing unconscious fraud.
C) The Medium knows they are using deception.

The end result is clearly good - The Sitter has begun moving on and will suffer less now.

Tell me, is the end result any less good with A, B, or C?

To bring it back to this topic: Yes, this girl is quite possibly a spokesperson for a fraudulent 'mystic school'. However, if that school brings value and community to a group of people - is it really that bad?

A sense of community and a core set of values to follow is the basis for society as a whole. To date there is absolutely no concensus as to what the "correct" set of values is, so we can't say that they are wrong. So even if people are spending tons of money on this - if they feel they are getting their money's worth, is it wrong?

This is why I say these things are not so black and white and why I don't believe that debunkers have the best interest of those they are 'saving' in mind.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 22, 2015 02:35PM)
I'd like to offer D) they have friends and family who help the person seek out bereavement therapy...

Ever read ted andrew's book on psychometry?

He is both a shut eye, and a fully qualified bereavement counselor...

Sometimes, even when its well meaning, we can still do more harm than good...

Your a/b/c doesn't also cover that they may also go back repeatedly, and it creates an unhealthy bond...

I do agree that potentially, a placebo could work...
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 22, 2015 02:37PM)
Also...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3282663/Woman-41-advanced-breast-cancer-REFUSES-chemotherapy-favour-drinking-urine-homoeopathy-psychic-surgeon-try-cure-herself.html
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Oct 22, 2015 02:55PM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2015, IAIN wrote:
I'd like to offer D) they have friends and family who help the person seek out bereavement therapy...

Ever read ted andrew's book on psychometry?

He is both a shut eye, and a fully qualified bereavement counselor...

Sometimes, even when its well meaning, we can still do more harm than good...

Your a/b/c doesn't also cover that they may also go back repeatedly, and it creates an unhealthy bond...

I do agree that potentially, a placebo could work... [/quote]

Your extra option isn't relevant to the example. The options are illustrating that either the Medium is real, or fake. If they are fake, they either know it, or they do not. The option to go elsewhere does not apply to this scenario and an attempt to add it in simply diverts from my point.

Yes, the sitter can form an unhealthy dependence on a psychic. Or on medication. Or on therapy. Or drugs. Or alcohol. Or any number of other things. Again, irrelevant. Show me the data that says that people are statistically more inclined to become dependant on 'psychics' or 'mediums' when other options are present, and then maybe it will have some relevance to my point.

The article you linked is likewise irrelevant. Someone deciding to use alternative methods, no matter how illogical and possibly insane the rest of us think they are, is exercising their right to bodily autonomy. As far as I can tell, she has done her own research and made her own decisions and is not following the advice of a psychic or any other professional, other than whomever wrote the articles and books she's reading.

So again. If you'd like to respond to my points, that would be lovely.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 22, 2015 03:12PM)
Ok, in the scenario you describe, I would see it Schrodinger's Psychic Medium...all three possibilities exist...the difference would be the intent behind it...do they (now they've broken the seal so to speak)...

a) encourage her to seek help from a trained professional
b) allow repeat visits so they can communicate with the dead again
c) do b) and also take huge sums of money from them, and keep them coming back forever more

i say that, because by giving this display, don't you think it has now given the person the impression that communication with the dead is now possible - and that concept is real and true... so, personally speaking, if I believed in it - I'd want to go back because I'd have so many more questions to ask...not to test anything, but genuine curiosity...we're not one dimensional are we - we sit back and process an experience and go on from there...its not a black and white experience...its not an equation...

human beings do weird stuff to themselves as well as others...

the link I posted referred to the comment made earlier by someone else...and it is relevant to this conversation - as its about how people in desperate times will turn to anything, let alone already have such beliefs in place which leave them open to all kinds of disastrous consequences...
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 22, 2015 03:33PM)
What exactly is a placebo? Nobody really knows. However the body and mind can make physical changes and heal itself when the conditions are right. In fact medicine never healed anything its a catalyst that allows the mind and body to heal itself. Placebo is such an inadequate term. What do you mean by a placebo Iain? Are you some kind of expert in this area? "science" has no real clue what it is anymore than they know what consciousness is.

You talk about..."Sometimes though, don't you think its healthy to enable people to rethink certain idea(l)s?"What makes you qualified to help someone rethink an idea? I know lots of people who believe in psychics. I give them my opinion in that I don't believe but its up to them. People can believe what they want.


Thinking the wrong thoughts over and over driven by unresolved emotional events in the past can cause physical illness. There is clinical research that showed a series of breast cancer sufferers all had an emotional trauma five to 10 years before the symptoms of cancer. Many of them had lost a loved one and still hadn't resolved the emotion. Others had a series of major incidents in their lives that led to them carrying this emotional baggage and the thoughts driven by it on a daily basis. So a more holistic approach can prevent a lot of people from not only moving on with their life but also remaining healthy. Longterm medication and counseling for a lot of people is a bad choice and only entrenches them in the problem..

Some people will get comfort from seeing a psychic -- some people may get addicted.. At the end of the day its their choice. Its not our place to judge what is "right" for them. If you were to choose Heroine as a good lifestyle choice it would be your choice. I found a that a lot of people who believe in psychics already know about mentalism and the "tricks" associated with it but don't care anyway..
Message: Posted by: seadog93 (Oct 22, 2015 03:35PM)
Cool, maybe this can give us some insight into the Fox sisters performance. I don't recall off the top of my head, are we talking about similar age ranges here?
Is this the same Nithyananda who is the brother of Gurumayi and was auto one point the co-guru of SYDA?

I saw what I personally considered some performance flaws, but it was certainly eye opening (!) to see the reception of this demonstration.

EDIT:
I know there are some polarized views on the subject but, at the risk of things going downhill, I will share what I found the most interesting part of the website attached to Swami Nithyananda's course. There is a page that you can request for swamiji to bless you that you will receive enough money to attend:
http://innerawakening.org/intention/
complete with testimonials:
http://innerawakening.org/intention/how-i-got-the-money/
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 22, 2015 03:47PM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2015, mindpunisher wrote:
What do you mean by a placebo Iain? Are you some kind of expert in this area?[/quote]
Placebo - giving them a sugar pill, in this instance, tell them what they need to hear during a realistic/believable scenario/set-up.

Am I an expert in this area? no, never said I was. What happens next? the world explodes?

[quote]On Oct 22, 2015, mindpunisher wrote:
You talk about..."Sometimes though, don't you think its healthy to enable people to rethink certain idea(l)s?"What makes you qualified to help someone rethink an idea? I know lots of people who believe in psychics. I give them my opinion in that I don't believe but its up to them. People can believe what they want.[/quote]

What makes me qualified? Nothing. Last time I checked, this is a forum, and forums are for discussions. This is mine. Of course people can believe what they want. They can believe that its safe to store wine in lead pots if they want to. That would certainly not cause any kind of harm would it! People believe in what they want, until they get a negative reaction from it and it no longer re-inforces their beliefs.


[quote]On Oct 22, 2015, mindpunisher wrote:
Some people will get comfort from seeing a psychic -- some people may get addicted.. At the end of the day its their choice. [/quote]
Yup, some people will. Some won't, and others will react differently from those two polar opposites. Is that difficult to understand? Why is it so difficult to comprehend that there may be other scenarios out there that we hadn't considered?

If we say "well, its their choice" - then that's a huge blanket statement isn't it? That absolves any community of any attempt at helping out, or doing what is best for the majority and all kinds of other stuff. Its pretty much "Isolationism".

So, if life for you is "well, its their choice" then why both trying to argue/debate with anyone?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 22, 2015 04:03PM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2015, IAIN wrote:
Yup, people still die of their disease no matter the treatment...however, the science based cure has evidence to back up the percentages and claims and is constantly trying to improve itself...

We've all debated these things countless times before, no point doing it again, we know it goes nowhere... [/quote]
Stating facts not in evidence as facts ... We don't all agree it goes nowhere .. Violation of the 10 commandments of logic. ;)
Message: Posted by: Mr Salk (Oct 22, 2015 04:04PM)
Spooky girls have been a hit since the Fox Sisters.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 22, 2015 04:12PM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2015, Slim King wrote:

Stating facts not in evidence as facts ... We don't all agree it goes nowhere .. Violation of the 10 commandments of logic. ;) [/quote]

i don't believe it goes anywhere healthy, my reason for saying this is "all the other threads where it was initially attempted and then seriously devolved and became a playground"...

so if it happens again, I won't be taking part...i have a novel to finish...
Message: Posted by: kinesis (Oct 23, 2015 01:08PM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2015, WitchDocChris wrote:
Just a thought to mull over here. Something I spend a lot of time thinking about.

Let's not talk about this particular example, but another which is also often mentioned. The idea of the psychic medium who contacts someone's dead relatives.

Let me also specify, I am not referring to the people who gouge their clients for every cent possible.

So you've got a Medium, and a Sitter. The Sitter has lost someone and has been grieving for a year or so. The grief is effecting their life in a negative way, because they just can't get beyond the pain of the loss and move on. They go to see the Medium, who professes to bring messages across the veil, and tells the Sitter that the deceased one is happy on the other side, and that it's time to move on. The Sitter then begins to genuinely move on, having finally gotten the closure.

We have a few possible scenarios here.

A) The Medium genuinely possesses the ability to communicate with the dead.
B) The Medium genuinely believes they possess that ability, but is in fact committing unconscious fraud.
C) The Medium knows they are using deception.

The end result is clearly good - The Sitter has begun moving on and will suffer less now.

Tell me, is the end result any less good with A, B, or C?

To bring it back to this topic: Yes, this girl is quite possibly a spokesperson for a fraudulent 'mystic school'. However, if that school brings value and community to a group of people - is it really that bad?

A sense of community and a core set of values to follow is the basis for society as a whole. To date there is absolutely no concensus as to what the "correct" set of values is, so we can't say that they are wrong. So even if people are spending tons of money on this - if they feel they are getting their money's worth, is it wrong?

This is why I say these things are not so black and white and why I don't believe that debunkers have the best interest of those they are 'saving' in mind. [/quote]

A, B or C

The end result is no different with A, B or C but that doesn’t make the end result good. The end result is that the client believes it is possible to communicate with the dead. This is the 21 Century not the Dark Ages. It is generally accepted in the scientific community that you cannot communicate with the dead. Should this person later discover that the psychic was fake or discover that communication with the dead is not possible they will be left confused, betrayed and will have lost the closure they once had.

Clearly the girl with the third eye is a walking promotion for the ‘Mystic School’ You make way too many assumptions about this situation to have a fair debate. Let as assume the girl is fraudulent, and lets face it there’s a lot to indicate that she is. What sort of community spirit and core values are based on fraud? I’m quite sure the only people benefiting from this ‘Mystic school’ are the scammers that run it. How many are getting their moneys worth? At £10K….not very many. Yes, if someone feels they got their money’s worth then that’s fine but what about those that feel they’ve been conned? Shame? embarrassment?

Many debunkers genuinely have the best interest of others at heart. If I’m aware of something that I believe MAY be a scam the least I can do is arm that vulnerable person with tools that will help them decide if a particular situation is fraudulent or not. The biggest piece of ammunition is knowledge. No one gains from debunking a fraud, but exposing a fraud can save vulnerable people from being stung.
Message: Posted by: seadog93 (Oct 23, 2015 02:23PM)
Currently re-reading chapter one of "The Mental Mysteries and other writings of William Larsen Sr."
To be honest, when I first read it I thought it might be outdated. Clearly I was wrong.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 23, 2015 03:15PM)
[quote]On Oct 22, 2015, seadog93 wrote:
Cool, maybe this can give us some insight into the Fox sisters performance. I don't recall off the top of my head, are we talking about similar age ranges here?
Is this the same Nithyananda who is the brother of Gurumayi and was auto one point the co-guru of SYDA?

I saw what I personally considered some performance flaws, but it was certainly eye opening (!) to see the reception of this demonstration.

EDIT:
I know there are some polarized views on the subject but, at the risk of things going downhill, I will share what I found the most interesting part of the website attached to Swami Nithyananda's course. There is a page that you can request for swamiji to bless you that you will receive enough money to attend:
http://innerawakening.org/intention/
complete with testimonials:
http://innerawakening.org/intention/how-i-got-the-money/ [/quote]
I think one of us should have the Swami BLESS US for the $10,000 and see what happens.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 23, 2015 03:19PM)
Step up to the plate, slim...

or maybe the witch doctor chris fella...go halveses, toss a coin - and one of you go for it, then report back and tell us how your third eye is getting on... :pirate:
Message: Posted by: Lseeyou (Oct 23, 2015 04:59PM)
From India * Nakul Shenoy

////////////// email transcript ///////////////////////////

A lot of our friends are falling prey to a well-planned scam, and we have to do what we can to stop this. The mid-brain / third-eye activation programme is taking the country by storm, and young children are being shown to be able to identify colours & objects, read, drive, draw, et al., while being blindfolded!

Having met a lot of parents personally - and also examined the kids who have had their mid-brains / third-eyes "activated", I can assure you that this is pseudo-scientific bauble and a scam.

In simple, the kids are being trained/coerced to peek through the blindfolds - from the gap between the blindfold and the bridge of the nose, and lie to everybody including their parents & close friends. While the children seem to bask in the temporary glory that this gives them as wonder-workers, in the long run this is playing havoc with their minds as they knowingly cheat everybody around them.

In Opening Eyes. Looking Beyond Blindfolds, I have posted a couple of anecdotes - which would be funny if they were not so unfortunate - and a simple test for you to run on your kids or others that may have undergone the mid-brain activation training.

Christopher Chabris & Daniel Simons in their pathbreaking book Invisible Gorilla espoused on the various ways our intuition deceives us. Even as they rewrote most everything we held to be true about perception and memory, C&S threw light on how we see and remember things the way we wish to, and not how it actually transpires.

In effect, we choose to be blind to reality and truth, and instead live in our chosen realm of the make-believe - one that fits our ideologies, our beliefs, and our comfort zones. And this is indeed the only explanation I find to parents across India (and abroad!) shelling out large sums of money to put their children through a programme that is at best a scam and at worst a criminal racket.

Even as prudent questions are raised and proof provided that the kids may have been 'encouraged' to peek through the blindfolds, many of the parents choose to blindfold themselves to the reality. The large amounts of money they have shelled out for these dubious workshops, make them hard-core believers in the waylaid claims!

Come, help our kids be the wonderful children that they are and help them free themselves from this scam that they are getting sucked into. If looking through blindfolds is what you want them to do, enrol them in a 'Learn Magic' programme, and not a scam like mid-brain activation. At the least, they will learn to entertain!

Best,

Nakul
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 23, 2015 05:16PM)
Naaaaaah, let them spend their money, live a lie, teach the kids that its ok to lie to anyone as long as they feel good about it - live a life in debt, misery and worry...because its their choice to pay for it, and there is zero community or intervention, because those things are wicked and evil and we shouldn't be trying to educate ourselves - we should just let them get on with it, and not worry about punishing those who are living off the proceeds...definitely not...

</irony>
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 23, 2015 05:39PM)
By all means tell people then let them make up their own minds... you can lead a horse to water but you can't lead a fish to a stable..
Message: Posted by: DocBenWiz (Oct 24, 2015 01:13AM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2015, IAIN wrote:
Naaaaaah, let them spend their money, live a lie, teach the kids that its ok to lie to anyone as long as they feel good about it - live a life in debt, misery and worry...because its their choice to pay for it, and there is zero community or intervention, because those things are wicked and evil and we shouldn't be trying to educate ourselves - we should just let them get on with it, and not worry about punishing those who are living off the proceeds...definitely not...

</irony> [/quote]

Ditto,...tres agreement!
:ohyes: :genielamp:
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 24, 2015 03:46AM)
So Iain what are you going to do personally about it?
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 24, 2015 03:50AM)
..i have set wheels in motion...
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 24, 2015 05:03AM)
So what does that mean?
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 24, 2015 05:18AM)
It means I'm going to investigate a bit, see if there's anything I can do...

anyway - what's it to you? you don't care - you think people should just have at it...so don't worry yourself over what I want to try and do...unless of course, you want to sneer and use your special NLP powers to convince me otherwise?

and yes - fully aware I will get nowhere - that kinda doesn't matter...
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 24, 2015 05:44AM)
I am not sneering just pointing out that it really isn't our place to do anything. The youtube video in the comments shows how much common knowledge peeking through a blind fold is. Its probably common in India too. Anyone with $10k to spare has an internet connection and must be reasonably educated. They can research and find out what they need to know in a matter of minutes. If they chose not to and want to buy into the third eye scam then 10k is the price for an education. But perhaps not the one they were hoping for. I know people who have spent a lot of money on crap and really aren't bothered whether they get results. They just want to be apart of the fantasy the dream. If someone has 10 k to throw away and is daft enough to throw it away that's up to them. They probably wouldn't thank you for pointing it out to them. Anybody who is making a purchase of that value should always use a credit card so will have some protection anyway. In the past when I have told women I know about fake mediums they sneered and mocked me lol! Now I just smile and accept they are getting value for their money when I hear about how good the last psychic or medium was. They are happy they are getting whatever they need or want from the transaction.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 24, 2015 07:09AM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2015, mindpunisher wrote:
...it really isn't our place to do anything. [/quote]

that's true in your world and in others...doesn't mean it has to be for everyone else though does it...

if you're not bothered, then that's the end of it (for you)...save your breath! I'm not trying to get you to do anything, you've got your own rules...mine are different...
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 24, 2015 07:34AM)
You may as well pack in your job then and devote your life to fighting injustice.... But 10 secs with google threw up these

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Blindfold+scam+india+third+eye&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=2XkrVtWdOciNaquXvcgF

Anybody who is intending to spend 10 k and doesn't do the same deserves to be scammed and nothing you do will ever reach them anyway. If what they are doing is illegal then there is enough stuff out there to bury them.

What do you think yo can add? The above sources carry a lot more weight and access to their lists than you will ever have...

Chill out Iain - your an entertainer not an international policeman.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 24, 2015 07:38AM)
Why are you attempting to control my actions?

Simmer down, take a rest...I'm a big strong boy, I will be ok...

Shouldn't you be applying your rules/mindset to this and me?
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 24, 2015 07:42AM)
Control your actions? I think your paranoid... or suffering from believing a mentalist is more important than they really are. Which is a common delusion amongst magicians.

My guess is there won't be any actions - and if so won't amount to anymore than playing around on the internet.. like we all are on this thread.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 24, 2015 08:02AM)
I'm find your responses more and more odd and illogical...be well, Brian...
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 24, 2015 09:00AM)
Who has proven they are cheating?
I can FAKE a photographic memory ... But that doesn't disprove it exists! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3IMP0fwlCM
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 24, 2015 11:07AM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2015, IAIN wrote:
I'm find your responses more and more odd and illogical...be well, Brian... [/quote]

Tell us what you intend to do Iain? Is that so odd? My guess is your full of hot air prove me wrong.. That really odd and illogical? I thought you were in favour of proof?
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 24, 2015 11:08AM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Who has proven they are cheating?
I can FAKE a photographic memory ... But that doesn't disprove it exists! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3IMP0fwlCM [/quote]


google is your best friend Slim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6dDfGqnZQM

there are more examples if you dig around but I guess you want to believe to the point of ignoring any common sense or evidence....the performances are really old basic feats of mentalism.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 24, 2015 11:18AM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2015, mindpunisher wrote:
[quote]On Oct 24, 2015, IAIN wrote:
I'm find your responses more and more odd and illogical...be well, Brian... [/quote]

Tell us what you intend to do Iain? Is that so odd? My guess is your full of hot air prove me wrong.. That really odd and illogical? I thought you were in favour of proof? [/quote]
You are entitled to your opinion!

And I don't want to get personal with you, so I shall bite my tongue...

Be well...
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 24, 2015 01:01PM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2015, mindpunisher wrote:
[quote]On Oct 24, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Who has proven they are cheating?
I can FAKE a photographic memory ... But that doesn't disprove it exists! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3IMP0fwlCM [/quote]


google is your best friend Slim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6dDfGqnZQM

there are more examples if you dig around but I guess you want to believe to the point of ignoring any common sense or evidence....the performances are really old basic feats of mentalism. [/quote]
If GOOGLE is YOUR best friend you are in deep dew dew ..rotflmao

Just because someone can fake something doesn't mean everyone is .. be logical for once ;)
Message: Posted by: kinesis (Oct 24, 2015 04:18PM)
Some incredibly rich person should sponsor 50 blind people to attend the course. It would be interesting to see if any of them were able to activate their third eye and perceive colour and drawings etc.
Message: Posted by: Ben Seatreader (Oct 24, 2015 06:47PM)
That's nothing, this boy can heal lost body parts!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQbtINdCaMg
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Oct 28, 2015 07:39PM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2015, kinesis wrote:
Some incredibly rich person should sponsor 50 blind people to attend the course. It would be interesting to see if any of them were able to activate their third eye and perceive colour and drawings etc. [/quote]

I'm activating my third eye as I type. (I love taking my smart phone to the bathroom.)
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Oct 28, 2015 07:52PM)
[quote]On Oct 28, 2015, mastermindreader wrote:
[quote]On Oct 24, 2015, kinesis wrote:
Some incredibly rich person should sponsor 50 blind people to attend the course. It would be interesting to see if any of them were able to activate their third eye and perceive colour and drawings etc. [/quote]

I'm activating my third eye as I type. (I love taking my smart phone to the bathroom.) [/quote]

Please don't tell us what you are seeing!
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Oct 28, 2015 07:54PM)
My third eye is winking at you!
Message: Posted by: Bill Cushman (Oct 28, 2015 10:22PM)
:winker:
Message: Posted by: Matt Pulsar (Oct 28, 2015 10:54PM)
I finally realise that magicians are the worlds most boring people hiding behind the veil of being intriguing and amazing. Why not just embrace the magic in the world? Why constantly try and find ways to destroy it. We can see this community as having a light and dark side, to me the dark side is the side that is negative, argumentative, and always wanting to destroy the magic in the world. If you turn to the dark side you end up chipping away at the art form.
Message: Posted by: Matt Pulsar (Oct 28, 2015 10:54PM)
I finally realise that magicians are the worlds most boring people hiding behind the veil of being intriguing and amazing. Why not just embrace the magic in the world? Why constantly try and find ways to destroy it. We can see this community as having a light and dark side, to me the dark side is the side that is negative, argumentative, and always wanting to destroy the magic in the world. If you turn to the dark side you end up chipping away at the art form.
Message: Posted by: Sean Giles (Oct 29, 2015 01:10AM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2015, Slim King wrote:
[quote]On Oct 24, 2015, mindpunisher wrote:
[quote]On Oct 24, 2015, Slim King wrote:
Who has proven they are cheating?
I can FAKE a photographic memory ... But that doesn't disprove it exists! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3IMP0fwlCM [/quote]


google is your best friend Slim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6dDfGqnZQM

there are more examples if you dig around but I guess you want to believe to the point of ignoring any common sense or evidence....the performances are really old basic feats of mentalism. [/quote]
If GOOGLE is YOUR best friend you are in deep dew dew ..rotflmao

Just because someone can fake something doesn't mean everyone is .. be logical for once ;) [/quote]

That is true Slim but I just want to add that if there is a way of faking something then that obviously has to be ruled out first when evaluating any claims.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 29, 2015 02:22AM)
Yay! Go frauds! :applause:
Message: Posted by: jstreiff (Oct 29, 2015 10:36AM)
If I cared enough to try to develop an informed opinion about this, I would look for evidence that one of these proteges had participated in a controlled test of some kind. If I could find no such thing, I would reserve judgment and simply accept that it is not possible at this time to come to an informed opinion. Not that hard really.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Oct 29, 2015 06:17PM)
The 10 commandments of logic applied here.
Message: Posted by: kinesis (Oct 30, 2015 07:57AM)
[quote]On Oct 28, 2015, StuartPalm wrote:
I finally realise that magicians are the worlds most boring people hiding behind the veil of being intriguing and amazing. Why not just embrace the magic in the world? Why constantly try and find ways to destroy it. We can see this community as having a light and dark side, to me the dark side is the side that is negative, argumentative, and always wanting to destroy the magic in the world. If you turn to the dark side you end up chipping away at the art form. [/quote]

In this instance we have some guy charging $10K to activate the third eye. The only evidence we have of any success is a child that can do blindfold party tricks. Is it any wonder that most of us are skeptical and negative?

On a personal level I am in constant awe of the wonders of the universe and nature. I'm also intrigued by what makes people 'tick'. I embrace the magic that is all around us. However that doesn't mean I accept every bit of wonder at face value. I'm inquisitive, I ask questions, I ponder "...but what if...". That's not being negative, I am simply questioning everything to improve my knowledge and understanding. Anyone who blindly accepts something is a fool. But that doesn't mean it's their fault, sometimes it's a cultural thing embedded in their way of life. Sometimes they do not have the resources to investigate or question something. That doesn't mean they deserve to be screwed by a conman. It means they need educated, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The negative attitude in this topic comes from people that think anyone that parts with $10K deserves to get shafted, well I'm sorry, I disagree, it's not always that simple.

Derek
Message: Posted by: Shrubsole (Oct 30, 2015 10:19AM)
[quote]On Oct 21, 2015, Mifune wrote:
[quote]On Oct 20, 2015, E.E. wrote:
Well... if people stopped believing this kind of nonsense, we'd have far less work. :eek: [/quote]

I don't think so, I still go to the cinema and I don't believe it's true :) [/quote]

Very ture!

If you want to imagine what it would look like if a man could fly, then you go and see a Superman movie.
If you want to imagine what it would look like if someone could really do mentalism, then you come and see our acts.

No belief system required, just a wish to be entertained.
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 30, 2015 10:34AM)
>>>The negative attitude in this topic comes from people that think anyone that parts with $10K deserves to get shafted, well I'm sorry, I disagree, it's not always that simple.

Derek<<<<

It doesn't have to be simple if you want to make it complicated....... anyone that has 10k to throw away HAS the resources. And if they can afford to throw it away on this without doing the research then that's up to them. That is simple. I wouldn't be surprised if there are those that have paid still can't read in the dark but still happy with their purchase... Otherwise where are those that got conned? I woulldve thought you would see them on youtube complaining?

I might try it myself think I will create xmas vouchers and give a 10% discount....and as a bonus teach how to read with finger tips.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 30, 2015 10:46AM)
Buyer's Stockholm Syndrome and Post-decision dissonance...
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 30, 2015 11:29AM)
Or maybe they are happy with the purchase... some most definitely will be. Some will be unhappy but shut up for whatever reason. But not all of them? Some would surely be coming forward complaining by now. Why aren't we seeing them?

How many people are actually paying the 10k?

Where the testimonials or complaints? It seems strange to me there doesn't seem to be any?
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Oct 30, 2015 01:38PM)
Funnily enough, search engines exist!

there are two types of third eye opening "things"...

one is done seriously, and sometimes charges are made, but only $10 or so, which often goes to charitable causes...and its part of a bigger ceremony and its usually only available to those who have studied certain religious teachings...

then there's stuff like this, doctors talking about the dangers of such things, and try to educate people...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6dDfGqnZQM

however, I'm not here to do people's research, I do my own...anyway - there's plenty out there if you wanted to read up on it...

what I would say though, and an entirely personal thing - is that if you are the kind of person who says "oh well, that's the buyer's look out...if they get scammed, then that's their fault"... firstly, on one level I do agree - they probably can afford it - but then again, maybe not...and rich folk don't deserve it either...

but on all other levels that go into making up a human being, I choose to think that its not ok, and I think that I'd rather go off and do what I think is right - without having to argue the toss with others on a forum...i don't want to engage on any level with those types of people, and I hope the feeling is mutual! :)

don't read that in an angry tone, I've just had enough arguing with people - believe/do/act/not act however you want...but don't tell others that they shouldn't bother just cos you think its ok...

over and out...
Message: Posted by: mindpunisher (Oct 30, 2015 03:11PM)
It took you a while to come to "over and out". :-)

And you have done a fair bit of engaging up till now. But I'm not arguing just stating a point of view I still don't see any testimonials or complaints from those that have been on the courses. I would guess there really isn't that many shelling out 10k for the experience but that's just a guess. India is a wealthy country we only see the poor side most of the time so maybe some do who knows? I don't think any kind of scam is right and if I am genuinely in a position to prevent someone being ripped off I would step forward and have on a number of occasions. In this case I just don't see how any of us could make much of a difference. Its a bit like those scams you get in your email every now and then some African prince wants to put his money in your bank and pay you thousands for helping him...all you have to do is hand over your details. I can't really do anything about those either... so can only wonder why someone would be so stupid to fall for them..

But I guess they do.
Message: Posted by: Scotty Walsh (Jan 11, 2016 04:06PM)
I'm wondering where the $10,000 figure comes from? It was first used by MindPunisher on page one and has been repeated a lot throughout this thread.

On the InnerAwakenings site, I did not see a price listed. Can anyone confirm that the prices are in this ballpark?

The very well written article by the Indian mentalist Nakul Shenoy suggests much lower prices: One price was mentioned as "upwards of 30,000 rupees ($450)" and the other price mentioned was 80,000 rupees for two kids (or $600 each). One price is listed in the article as 800,000 rupees ($12,000), but that is the price to own a franchise, or something along those lines. The article about Prof. Nayak lists the typical price as 25,000 rupees ($375).

http://www.mangalorean.com/mangaluru-mid-brain-activation-is-totally-fraud-rationalist-prof-narendra-nayak/

I don't think these figures change things much, as this is still a lot of money in India, and a scam is a scam, BUT I do think we should have our facts straight. If I am missing something regarding the $10,000 figure, please do let me know.

Thank you,
Scotty
Message: Posted by: Alex R. Weinberg (Jan 11, 2016 06:59PM)
I think Osterlind, has a better blindfold system, but believers will believe despite the obvious.

-Alex
Message: Posted by: ALEXANDRE (Jan 11, 2016 09:59PM)
Though I don't mention it on the video and sort of credit the ESP research conducted at the parapsychology department of Duke University, I actually received my initial training from Swami Nithyananda, the guru who trained this incredible little girl. You can see evidence of that in some of my other videos. I think the girl is brilliant BTW!

https://youtu.be/-oNDCis0_G0

WARNING: The video is almost 8 minutes long and a bit boring. Watch at your own risk.

:bigdance: