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Topic: Bring My Rabbit, but Leave The Balloons In My Car.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Oct 29, 2015 11:22AM)
I received a phone call today from a daycare operator asking about my show; the client wanted to be sure that the rabbit will be the ending as advertised in my website and she was adamant that no balloons be blown up or in any manner given out to any child.

I explained how I perform my show using large colorful tricks designed especially for children’s magic shows; that I never use balloons because of the danger of swallowing the material if they burst and giving out balloons to children and not constantly monitor the children is too dangerous.

She was very happy to hear about my performance and that balloons will not be a part of my show and she hired me on the phone.

Not only has performing using a rabbit booked a show, but being asked to not use balloons cinched the deal.

What has your experience been?
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Oct 29, 2015 12:18PM)
She's probably experienced the horrors of balloon sword warfare from an army of 5 year olds. I've never had your experience, but like you, I also don't do balloons. Never found any reason.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Oct 29, 2015 06:35PM)
A balloon sword is the only thing I can make with balloons.

I never asked her why she asked me not to use balloons, we were on the same page of not using balloons and it was not necessary to rock the boat before I booked her.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Oct 29, 2015 07:06PM)
My experience, as you well know, is that the use of a rabbit is illegal in much of my territory, and is frowned upon by many over here. Why revive this stupid topic, unless to be a troll?

As for balloons, some clients do not want them. A wildlife park here is concerned about animals swallowing them. One party mother had a kid who was scared of balloons. A fundamentalist christian objected to them being used as weapons. Some schools hate the noise. Most clients love them as an add-on. No lessons to be learned except some clients like them and others don't.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Oct 29, 2015 07:58PM)
Tony;

The point of this thread is that rabbits may be a concern to some clients because of the allergic reaction some children may experience, but my client was not concerned about the reaction of fur; my client was concerned about a latex allergy and a choking hazard.

Why would you consider this thread to be a "stupid Topic" unless you just "troll" threads to be argumentative.

It may, or may not be illegal to use a rabbit in your towns, but nowhere in the United States is it illegal to use rabbits in a magic show.

Every objection you mention is not sensible.

A wildlife park in Ireland is concerned about animals swallowing balloons and choking, but mom's in in Ireland are not concerned about children swallowing balloons and choking?

Are animals more revered in Ireland?...

If a fundamentalist Christian objected to balloons being used as weapons, then don't make any weapons with balloons.

ONE party mother had a kid who was scared of balloons, so no one gets any balloons?

Before one of my shows I had one mother that hired me say to me before the party when I was checking on any child experiencing allergies to my rabbit, I was told that one child had a fur allergy and that child was not invited to the party because she wanted the rabbit.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Oct 29, 2015 08:14PM)
Howie, we had a pointless and futile discussion on this topic that went no place, and now you are bringing it up again just a week later. You are doing it to be vexatious. There is no other purpose to this thread. And we all know that, despite what you may think.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Oct 29, 2015 08:14PM)
[quote]On Oct 29, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote:
A balloon sword is the only thing I can make with balloons.

I never asked her why she asked me not to use balloons, we were on the same page of not using balloons and it was not necessary to rock the boat before I booked her. [/quote]
[quote]On Oct 29, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote:
The point of this thread is that rabbits may be a concern to some clients because of the allergic reaction some children may experience, but my client was not concerned about the reaction of fur; my client was concerned about a latex allergy and a choking hazard.[/quote]

Actually, that is why YOU don't do balloons. That's not why SHE didn't want balloons.

You also said that your client didn't say her reasons, nor did you ask her. So, you don't know if your client's reasons are latex allergy or a choking hazard, or maybe someone just doesn't like balloons because sometimes they squeak too much, or something else entirely.

Speaking for me personally, I don't assume a customer's reasons unless I ask them.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Oct 29, 2015 08:58PM)
P.S. I once did a free show for the daycare at my church as an act of kindness (I was charging my other daycares, birthday customers, schools, etc. my regular fee... so, I wasn't a beginner). The condition was that they were supposed to write me a reference letter after my show. In the reference letter I received, there was a complaint! (Not much of a reference letter, in that case.) The contact person said that maybe I shouldn't have done balloons in my show.

I called to ask why. She didn't like that I only gave balloons to some of the children at the daycare, during the show. "It wasn't fair to everyone." Usually, I give them to all of the children at most daycare shows (because some children might get upset, when they are young). But I didn't provide balloons for all in this case, because it was a larger audience and because I was donating the show. She didn't realize that, or I would have clarified her expectations when booking the show. Needless to say, I didn't use their reference letter, and I'll no longer donate shows to the daycare at my church.

But the lesson I learned most of all is, when dealing with a daycare or preschool customer: (1) either plan to give balloons to every child at a daycare show ("to be fair to all of the children"), or (2) if you only give balloons to a few select "on stage" volunteers, then ask the child to give the balloon to the teacher right away, so they can "Put the balloon up for all to see and enjoy" (make it a present to their "community", instead of an individual).

So, her objections to balloon twisting had nothing to do with allergies, choking hazard, popping, etc. You don't know their reasons until you ask.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Oct 29, 2015 09:17PM)
[quote]On Oct 29, 2015, Donald Dunphy wrote:
[quote]On Oct 29, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote:
A balloon sword is the only thing I can make with balloons.

I never asked her why she asked me not to use balloons, we were on the same page of not using balloons and it was not necessary to rock the boat before I booked her. [/quote]
[quote]On Oct 29, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote:
The point of this thread is that rabbits may be a concern to some clients because of the allergic reaction some children may experience, but my client was not concerned about the reaction of fur; my client was concerned about a latex allergy and a choking hazard.[/quote]

Actually, that is why YOU don't do balloons. That's not why SHE didn't want balloons.

You also said that your client didn't say her reasons, nor did you ask her. So, you don't know if your client's reasons are latex allergy or a choking hazard, or maybe someone just doesn't like balloons because sometimes they squeak too much, or something else entirely.

Speaking for me personally, I don't assume a customer's reasons unless I ask them.

- Donald [/quote]


Donald;

You are correct, I did not specifically ask this client why she did not want balloons.

In my reply, I was pointing out to Tony my reason for initiating the thread since he asked, I was including in this discussion reasons from past discussions with clients why they had not wanted balloons and I was projecting my thoughts and not clear about the distinction when I wrote my post;

I should have written; "but my client was not concerned about the reaction of fur because I asked her; my client was PROBABLY concerned about a latex allergy or a choking hazard which we had not discussed".

What is clear is, my client wanted a rabbit to end the show, but made it quite clear that she did not want balloons.

The point of this thread was I am interested in finding out and discussing what other members of the Café experiences have been.

So Donald returning to the point of my thread, have you experienced the rabbit VS the balloon conflict?
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Oct 29, 2015 09:42PM)
[quote]On Oct 29, 2015, Donald Dunphy wrote:
P.S. I once did a free show for the daycare at my church as an act of kindness (I was charging my other daycares, birthday customers, schools, etc. my regular fee... so, I wasn't a beginner). The condition was that they were supposed to write me a reference letter after my show. In the reference letter I received, there was a complaint! (Not much of a reference letter, in that case.) The contact person said that maybe I shouldn't have done balloons in my show.

I called to ask why. She didn't like that I only gave balloons to some of the children at the daycare, during the show. "It wasn't fair to everyone." Usually, I give them to all of the children at most daycare shows (because some children might get upset, when they are young). But I didn't provide balloons for all in this case, because it was a larger audience and because I was donating the show. She didn't realize that, or I would have clarified her expectations when booking the show. Needless to say, I didn't use their reference letter, and I'll no longer donate shows to the daycare at my church.

But the lesson I learned most of all is, when dealing with a daycare or preschool customer: (1) either plan to give balloons to every child at a daycare show ("to be fair to all of the children"), or (2) if you only give balloons to a few select "on stage" volunteers, then ask the child to give the balloon to the teacher right away, so they can "Put the balloon up for all to see and enjoy" (make it a present to their "community", instead of an individual).

So, her objections to balloon twisting had nothing to do with allergies, choking hazard, popping, etc. You don't know their reasons until you ask.

- Donald [/quote]

Donald;

I wanted to answer this post because I didn't want you to think I'm ignoring you.

Sometimes no matter what I do, a problem comes up.

I performed a show at a home did a great job, was complimented by everyone and I later received a 4 star feedback rather the normal 5 star feedback on the booking website.

I contacted the mom and asked what was wrong, she told me she was disturbed because I asked her to please move her car to the center of the driveway to prevent me from scratching the car as I carry my props into her home; the car was very close to the very narrow walkway and I thought I was being extra cautious in preventing an accident.

I never know what will upset a client, but I move forward and don't let little things bother me
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Oct 29, 2015 11:51PM)
I don't have any rabbits or doves in my shows. I've only been asked if I had a rabbit in my show a handful of times, and I don't ever recall it costing me a show. If it did cost me a show booking, that's fine with me. I can't be all things to all people. I also won't dress up as a wizard or special character for their theme. And there are some other things I've been asked to do, that I don't offer.

Because I offer balloon twisting, with some customers it's a part of their package (example - my birthday shows or daycare shows include balloons for all of the children). And with some other customers, it's an add-on. For example, as of this point, 3 of my upcoming customers for Christmas 2015 have hired me to do an hour of balloon twisting in addition to having my magic show at their Christmas party. And one of my festival customers this past summer hired me to do a magic show and 2 hours of strolling balloons (with a break between each hour-long balloon twisting session).

I've only ever had one birthday customer ask me not to do balloons, and it was because of an allergy. That was a customer who I personally knew, who was a doctor, and they were having their party in a rented room in a special hospital. I simply adapted my show to not include balloons as giveaways or prizes.

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Oct 30, 2015 02:05AM)
I am of the opinion that when a mom decides to have a magician perform for her child’s party, the mom has no idea of what type of magician she wants so during the Internet search ideas are formulated.

As a magician, what you advertise is what the customer will respond to.

You advertise balloon twisting and mom’s that want a balloon twister will call you for information. I advertise a rabbit in my show, so mom’s that want a rabbit will call me for information; they may ask for additional services, for instance they call you to provide balloons, they may ask if you have a rabbit and when you tell her you don’t there is no push back because they want balloons. I am asked if I provide balloons and because she called for a magician that has a rabbit I have never lost a show because I don’t provide balloons.

Balloon twisting is an art, if you are an artist. The results are beautiful.

I would like to learn balloon twisting, but my fear of latex reactions or choking hazards prevent me from offering balloons; additionally, balloon twisting requires many hours of practice to become an artist.

Donald, you consider yourself a magician and your standards require you to not wear costumes; you pick and choose your shows based on your image.

I consider myself an entertainer and if the client has a party theme that requires a wardrobe to complete the scene, I’m all in.

I feel I would look foolish if every other person in the room is dressed in a wizard costume and I’m in a suit & tie, I am being paid to perform and as an entertainer if the performance requires a period dress, I see no reason not to join in and participate.

The guests are dressed in costume, in certain instances the guest have paid to attend the party, I’m also attending, listening to the music, chatting with the guests; enjoying the evening; performing illusions and sharing my craft; the only difference is I’m getting paid a decent fee to be there; I don’t pay for drinks (Coke or Pepsi) and dinner is included, so if the client requests that I wear a wizard costume to play my part, I will not ruin the ambiance.
Message: Posted by: jamiedoyle (Nov 4, 2015 06:57PM)
I was once asked to not do balloons because of an allergy to the latex with one of the children.
Message: Posted by: Karen Climer (Nov 5, 2015 07:20AM)
When I get calls, they always want balloons and have never once asked me if I have a rabbit. Why? Because I promote that all of my shows have balloons and say nothing in my marketing about a rabbit.

I'm assuming that Howie promotes the heck out of his rabbit so that's why they call him.

So if a daycare called me and said "Bring balloons, leave the rabbit at home," could we use that an inconclusive proof that people love balloons and have no interest in a rabbit? Of course not.

I'd say that the only conclusion we can draw from this booking is that the daycare knew what they wanted and hired the person who could provide that.

Whatever you use in your show that makes you unique whether it is a rabbit, balloons, or dressing as a wizard, can be a huge benefit and a huge detriment depending on what the customer wants.
Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Nov 5, 2015 11:28AM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2015, Karen Climer wrote:

I'm assuming that Howie promotes the heck out of his rabbit so that's why they call him. [/quote]

Yes, he does. :)

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?forum=44&topic=557960&start=30#3

- Donald
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Nov 5, 2015 09:02PM)
I don't remember ever being asked not to use balloons. One time in a restaurant I was asked not to, but never for a show. Personally, I think people overreact based upon false information. Buzz, how many kids have REALLY choked on balloons a magicians gave them? It sounds a little like a made-up sales pitch (which I am not at all opposed to, since you did not lie, just raised the issue).
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 6, 2015 04:32AM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2015, Starrpower wrote:
Buzz, how many kids have REALLY choked on balloons a magicians gave them?[/quote]
Zero. This has been debated to death here.
Message: Posted by: MichaelCGM (Nov 6, 2015 02:38PM)
Just an FYI. http://www.nytimes.com/1997/03/13/garden/balloons-made-of-latex-pose-choking-hazard.html
Message: Posted by: Karen Climer (Nov 6, 2015 06:08PM)
MichaelCGM, there is no record of a child choking on a 260 or similar twisting balloon, which is what a magician would likely give a child. The article you referenced refers to round balloons. I'm not trying to be contradictory, I'm just pointing out why your information is different from what Tony said.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 8, 2015 11:15AM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2015, Karen Climer wrote:

I'm assuming that Howie promotes the heck out of his rabbit so that's why they call him. [/quote]

[quote]On Nov 5, 2015, Donald Dunphy wrote:

Yes, he does. :)

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?forum=44&topic=557960&start=30#3


- Donald [/quote]

Donald, you didn't dig deep enough

http://kids-magic.com/rabbit.php
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 8, 2015 11:35AM)
[quote]On Nov 5, 2015, Starrpower wrote:

Personally, I think people overreact based upon false information. Buzz, how many kids have REALLY choked on balloons a magicians gave them? It sounds a little like a made-up sales pitch (which I am not at all opposed to, since you did not lie, just raised the issue). [/quote]

I have posted this link for Tony to read in a past thread, which he has said and not not relevant

Starpower;

I don't think it matters to the parents of a dead child if a magician, a balloon twister gave the kid a balloon, or if the balloon was purchased in a store


https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=childrens+balloon+deaths

To be fair, I also Googled children's deaths while a magician is performing with a rabbit, but could not find any instance of a child's dying.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 8, 2015 12:44PM)
[quote]On Oct 29, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Howie, we had a pointless and futile discussion on this topic that went no place, and now you are bringing it up again just a week later. You are doing it to be vexatious. There is no other purpose to this thread. And we all know that, despite what you may think. [/quote]

Tony;

In the last thread we had a discussion on this topic you believe it be pointless because it did not go your way; you think it was pointless because you were not persuasive and you were fighting a losing battle from me and other members in the Café so as the increasing number of members were posting that you were erroneous and you just stopped posting


Are you now taking the position that all the other members that have posted to this thread are all wasting their time and are fools?


Last year in a thread that both you and I were contributing to we discussed balloon safety; I posted FACTS about children choking and dying because of swallowing deflated balloons and you replied by ignoring my links and independent cautions from organizations like the Center for Disease Control and the American Pediatric Society and then went on to advertising your DVD on swallowing balloons.
Message: Posted by: Al Kazam the Magic Man (Nov 8, 2015 12:47PM)
I took a peek at Howie's website, (link in a Howie post a couple above this) and to say I'm confused is an understatement.

I can't figure out your rational for the cheap (maybe free) show option you offer. Doesn't seem like a good strategy to me. Then again, I'm just sharing my opinion. Then the continual plugging of giving away rabbits to everyone is also interesting. Adopting them,,,,buying them, have the family come on stage for the presentation of the give away rabbit to the birthday child etc etc. All very interesting.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 8, 2015 01:41PM)
[quote]On Nov 8, 2015, Al Kazam the Magic Man wrote:
I took a peek at Howie's website, (link in a Howie post a couple above this) and to say I'm confused is an understatement.

I can't figure out your rational for the cheap (maybe free) show option you offer. Doesn't seem like a good strategy to me. Then again, I'm just sharing my opinion. Then the continual plugging of giving away rabbits to everyone is also interesting. Adopting them,,,,buying them, have the family come on stage for the presentation of the give away rabbit to the birthday child etc etc. All very interesting. [/quote]

Al Kazam;

I'm also confused, what does your post have to do with using a rabbit in a magic show?

It is off the topic and confusing to me because you have asked the same question a few years back in a thread.

I will answer your same questions again only because after more performances, I can add additional expediences to my answer.

You are correct the rabbit program is interesting; the "adopt a rabbit" is very exciting to the child who is interested in learning magic receiving the rabbit in my magic class from parents that are encouraging to the child's interests and maybe some day including the rabbit in a little magic show he or she performs.

To continue on your off topic reply.

If you can't figure out my rational for the cheap (maybe free) show option I offer to parents that have major medical bills for a very ill child or in some other way suffered a major financial hardship with no options for purchasing presents and through no fault of the child, the parents just can't afford to provide an entertaining party for a child that will allow the child and his or her friends to enjoy a day in his or her life and will be remembered and bring one day of joy to a families life.

On one show the situation was so dire, in addition to the free show, I paid for the soda and pizza; mom made the cake, the cake was made with love and gratitude and it was the best birthday cake I ever tasted

If this is confusing, hopefully I have to your satisfaction explained why I offer the option.

Now back to the topic.
Message: Posted by: TKD27 (Nov 9, 2015 08:54PM)
I'm primarily a balloon artist, so I've had a different experience than you. I did donate a magic show to a public school once where I was asked not to use balloons because of a latex allergy, but other than that I've never run in to a problem. I've also never had anyone ask me about a rabbit (which I don't have), but like others, I don't mention it, instead focusing on balloons. I read in a post on a balloon Facebook group recently that, in the US, an average of two children die due to balloon related issues per year. Any time someone dies (especially a child) it's a terrible tragedy. But when accounting for all the bizarre (and not so bizarre) things that take people's lives each year, two deaths is a statistical blip. I don't know the source of that info, so take it with a grain of salt if you'd like.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 9, 2015 09:10PM)
Hi TKD.

If you receive a phone call to perform, it will never be a problem; it's the calls you never get from the parents that have kids with allergies that looks at your advertisement and says "Can't hire him, he performs with balloons" that you don't know about.

I never get calls about balloons because I don't offer balloons in my show

You are correct, if your statistics are correct for this discussion, two deaths are a statistical blip... unless it's a child that dies at a show you are performing and you have to look at the parents of the child that has died... then it becomes a nightmare.
Message: Posted by: Rook (Nov 9, 2015 11:54PM)
I haven't done balloons in half of forever. The one time that I was asked not to use balloons was because the guest of honor was latex sensitive. I've since met a few people like that: it's more common than one would think..

My dove and rabbit, however, are ever the stars of the show.
Message: Posted by: TKD27 (Nov 10, 2015 07:22AM)
[quote]On Nov 9, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote:
You are correct, if your statistics are correct for this discussion, two deaths are a statistical blip... unless it's a child that dies at a show you are performing and you have to look at the parents of the child that has died... then it becomes a nightmare. [/quote]

I've never heard of a child dying due to a performer, though. Maybe it's happened? But I feel like it would be a well publicized story within our community if it did.

And if I miss out on calls because I do balloons, that's cool. You can't be all things to all people :)
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 10, 2015 08:09AM)
I don't know if a child died at a party and I'm not going to spend time looking on the Internet to prove a point, this is only a discussion and I know this thread will not change how balloons are given out at a party, or if a rabbit should be part of a magic show.

It is just a discussion on balloons and rabbits.
Message: Posted by: Al Kazam the Magic Man (Nov 10, 2015 08:31AM)
[quote]On Nov 8, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote:
[quote]On Nov 8, 2015, Al Kazam the Magic Man wrote:
I took a peek at Howie's website, (link in a Howie post a couple above this) and to say I'm confused is an understatement.

I can't figure out your rational for the cheap (maybe free) show option you offer. Doesn't seem like a good strategy to me. Then again, I'm just sharing my opinion. Then the continual plugging of giving away rabbits to everyone is also interesting. Adopting them,,,,buying them, have the family come on stage for the presentation of the give away rabbit to the birthday child etc etc. All very interesting. [/quote]

Al Kazam;

I'm also confused, what does your post have to do with using a rabbit in a magic show?

It is off the topic and confusing to me because you have asked the same question a few years back in a thread.

I will answer your same questions again only because after more performances, I can add additional expediences to my answer.

You are correct the rabbit program is interesting; the "adopt a rabbit" is very exciting to the child who is interested in learning magic receiving the rabbit in my magic class from parents that are encouraging to the child's interests and maybe some day including the rabbit in a little magic show he or she performs.

To continue on your off topic reply.

If you can't figure out my rational for the cheap (maybe free) show option I offer to parents that have major medical bills for a very ill child or in some other way suffered a major financial hardship with no options for purchasing presents and through no fault of the child, the parents just can't afford to provide an entertaining party for a child that will allow the child and his or her friends to enjoy a day in his or her life and will be remembered and bring one day of joy to a families life.

On one show the situation was so dire, in addition to the free show, I paid for the soda and pizza; mom made the cake, the cake was made with love and gratitude and it was the best birthday cake I ever tasted

If this is confusing, hopefully I have to your satisfaction explained why I offer the option.

Now back to the topic. [/quote]


THIS IS THE PART I'M CONFUSED ABOUT. It comes across to me like it's not really a done deal until a few days before the party, and only if paid by credit card or debit card. And depends on where you'll be,,if any late minute shows come in, etc etc. Man if you're going to offer people who are in dire straits a cheap show,,,make it easy for them to book the darn thing. If it really matters that much to you to be a good samaritan, why the need for up front fees, and a list of conditions?

Finally...please don't try and lecture me about charitable giving of shows to people in need. I know an awful lot about it...trust me.

Howie Diddit's website copy,,NOT MINE

If you truly feel you fall into this category and are in fact not able to afford the Beta show, please email Howie at Howie@kids-magic.com. Howie will call you on the telephone and discuss the circumstances, the budget, his availability, and the type of show he can provide. As with every other magic show Howie performs, the show will end with a trick that will produce a live rabbit that the children will be allowed to pet.

Conditions apply:

• Committing to perform at your party depends on the other magical events booked that day, the time of your child's party and the location.

• As with any performance Howie schedules, the appearance at your event will depend on Howie being able to complete the earlier commitments, travel to your location in time, perform a fun and non rushed routine allowing time to pet the rabbit and finish the show in a professional manner and then allow time for Howie to move on to the next event without overbooking the day.

• The Delta show cannot be booked before the week of the child's party.

• The full cost of the agreed upon amount must be paid in advance by credit, or debit card.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 10, 2015 11:37AM)
My question for you is why are you so interested in how I run my business?

I was not lecturing you, I was answering a question you asked me; if you don't like the way I answer your questions, don't ask me questions.

You also just told me to trust you, Why? In fact, the last time you asked the question in a thread about my charitable shows, you commented that if you do not get paid your full fee, you do not perform.

so I will answer your question only in the hopes that you will follow in my footsteps and advertise a program on your website; only then will I trust you

There are some people that will try to scam me for a free show when in fact they have a Mercedes parked in their driveway; the rules that I have set up have prevented the scammers from trying to take advantage. The truly needy will gladly call and arrange the party so I can fit them in to my regular schedule and allow me to provide a fun and memorable party for their children.

I looked at your website and noticed that you do not offer a charitable program at all.

As I looked at your website I was also confused, now allow me point out what confuses me.

You advertise that you are “Perth’s best kids party Magical Entertainer” I found that claim to be odd, so I cut the claim off your website and pasted the claim into Google and found out by looking at websites that rate performers that you are not rated the best by parents in Perth; many other magicians have much higher ratings

Here are just a couple to prove my point;

whodoyou.com has you rated in the number 4 position with a 7.2 rating, the number 1 rated magician has an 8.7 rating

https://www.whodoyou.com/l/perth--australia/magician

You are number 7 on entertainoz.com.

http://www.entertainoz.com.au/Entertainers/Childrens-Entertainment/Perth

I could have researched more, but this proves my point

It confuses me that you rate yourself the best magician in Perth, when I could not find any evidence of you wining any local or regional competitions and the ratings of websites that rate magicians’ reveal you are not the best rated magician in Perth.

To save you the time on looking at my website, I DO NOT mention anywhere that I am the best magician in San Francisco, because I do not have the years of experience and training that other magicians in my area have.

You post on your website that you only have 16 years of experience yourself; while researching your claim I looked at websites of very successful magicians in Perth that have extensive training and more than 20 to 30 years of experience that do not feel the need to make claims of being the "BEST"...they just overshadow you in experience and in the number of performances

Before you ridicule my business practices, look within yourself at your website claims and your business practices.
Message: Posted by: MichaelCGM (Nov 10, 2015 12:31PM)
[quote]On Nov 10, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote: Before you ridicule my business practices, look within yourself at your website claims and your business practices. [/quote]

Kudos, Howie!
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 10, 2015 12:38PM)
I have said this repeatedly, and Howie can not contradict this: No child has died due to a performer giving him a 260. It has not happened. So we can stop pretending it is an actual danger when it isn't.

Latex allergies, on the other hand, are uncommon but real dangers. The parents will know and not book balloon artists.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 10, 2015 02:14PM)
I do not contradict that you have said repeatedly that balloons are not a danger and I agree with you that I don't know if in fact any child has ever died from specifically receiving a 260 balloon from a magician.

I disagree with your comment that balloons are not dangerous. children have died from swallowing balloons; balloons can be dangerous if swallowed by any man, woman or child.

New magician's and balloon twisters with little experience join the Magic Café every day.

All I am doing is repeatedly mentioning a documented fact that in the past children have died from swallowing a deflated balloon.

I don't post this warning to prevent other magicians and balloon twisters from giving out balloons, I post a warning here to warn other members to be observant and use caution when giving out balloons.

Tony;

When you post a blanket statement that balloons are not dangerous, you are masking a potential problem.

I don't see why you can't see a danger of a deflated balloon in a child's mouth and admit the documented fact that children have died by a deflated balloon lodged in an airway.

For balloon artists reading my posts concerning balloons; When you become aware of the dangers of balloons and you decide to become a balloon artist, be cautious to look around IF you hear a balloon pop while working and make sure deflated pieces are picked up from the floor by an adult.
Message: Posted by: MichaelCGM (Nov 10, 2015 03:46PM)
[quote]On Nov 10, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
I have said this repeatedly, and Howie can not contradict this: No child has died due to a performer giving him a 260. It has not happened. So we can stop pretending it is an actual danger when it isn't.
[/quote]

Is it your contention that no 260s have ever been involved in child suffocation, or just that no 260s received from a "performer" have ever caused child suffocation?
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 10, 2015 04:46PM)
[quote]On Nov 10, 2015, MichaelCGM wrote:
[quote]On Nov 10, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
I have said this repeatedly, and Howie can not contradict this: No child has died due to a performer giving him a 260. It has not happened. So we can stop pretending it is an actual danger when it isn't.
[/quote]

Is it your contention that no 260s have ever been involved in child suffocation, or just that no 260s received from a "performer" have ever caused child suffocation? [/quote]

Michael;

Just to be clear on my reply to Tony.

My interpretation of his post was to mean that since a performer has never given an child a 260 balloon that was the cause of a death, it has never been a problem, and since in his opinion there has never been a death attributed to a magician giving a child a 260 balloon in the past, there will never be a danger of a child choking on a 260 balloon in the future.

In Tony's words cut & pasted here, " we can stop pretending it is an actual danger when it isn't" and Tony is inferring that in the future I should never post about the danger of a balloon choking a child again.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 10, 2015 05:44PM)
Howie, when has a performer ever given out a deflated balloon? You are inventing dangers to support your ridiculous position, but what is new in that?

Michael, no one has been able to produce a single instance of a child dying as a result of an entertainer giving out a balloon. That is what I am saying. I am not saying it is impossible, just that it has not happened. Of course it could. And a child could swallow a sponge ball and choke. So do we ban those? A chair suspension could fall and hit a prone child on the head and kill him. Do we ban that prop? Or do we use common sense? Balloon modelling has been going on since 1939. 76 years, and we are still awaiting Howie's doomsday scenario.

If I were petty I could cite this report on rabbits and asthma attacks, and give out about the health dangers of bringing a rodent into a home: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2693847/

But that would be lowering the tone of this forum even further.
Message: Posted by: Karen Climer (Nov 10, 2015 05:52PM)
"when has a performer ever given out a a deflated balloon?" Every once in a while, someone will ask for an uninflated balloon, usually it's a teenager. This is not during a show, but if I'm doing line work. I always tell the teenager that I can't give him an uniflated balloon because it's a choking hazard. Of course, this drives the teen crazy. Obviously he is old enough not to choke on it, but it's fun to use that as an excuse. The real reason is that I'm not a balloon store. I'm a balloon entertainer. I don't provide balloons. I provide entertainment. Somehow that wouldn't be as much fun to say to a teenager.

In any case, Tony, you are right. If we thought of every possible problem that could possibly happen, we would all be out of business. The people would not even be able to get to our shows because it's possible that they could get in a car accident on the way to the show.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 10, 2015 06:35PM)
Karen, the voice of reason! Well put.

And I hate it too when someone asks for an uninflated balloon. Occasionally I will give one to a persistent dad and insist he blow it up then and there. I take a perverse delight in his failure.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 10, 2015 07:26PM)
Tony;

Do you even read my posts before you go off on a tangent?

Do you think I invented this?



As far as a child never dying from blowing up a balloon, this tragic accident happened in Belfast at a birthday party

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/girl-dies-after-choking-on-balloon-at-a-party-28503213.html


How do you explain this?

http://www.fisher-price.com/en_US/parenting-articles/health-and-safety/are-balloons-dangerous
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Nov 10, 2015 08:41PM)
I don't think balloons cause major problems, but if someone doesn't want me to do them, the solutions is simple: I won't do them!

If someone asks why I don't bring a rabbit, I will explain the risks of kids getting bitten, allergies, and harm to the rabbit from a crush of overexcited children (among other "cruelty to animals" issues). Why? Because my job is to sell the advantages of MY show!

I don't think I ever had someone NOT hire me due to lack of a rabbit. If a rabbit makes the difference, I'd re-examine the quality of my show.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 10, 2015 09:05PM)
[quote]On Nov 10, 2015, Starrpower wrote:
I don't think balloons cause major problems, but if someone doesn't want me to do them, the solutions is simple: I won't do them!

If someone asks why I don't bring a rabbit, I will explain the risks of kids getting bitten, allergies, and harm to the rabbit from a crush of overexcited children (among other "cruelty to animals" issues). Why? Because my job is to sell the advantages of MY show!

I don't think I ever had someone NOT hire me due to lack of a rabbit. If a rabbit makes the difference, I'd re-examine the quality of my show. [/quote]

Mark;

Balloons do not cause any problems, unless a child chokes on a balloon.

I agree with you that if a mom asks about you not having a rabbit, you should endeavor to promote your show by empathizing the strengths of your program and empathizing the inclusion of a rabbit.

If the mom calls you, asks about a number of subjects, says "thank you" and hangs up never to call to book you, you never know why she did not book you;

I own a rabbit and I get calls but no booking, it could be because I do have a rabbit; but it's most lightly that they found a less expensive entertainer.

You've explained your show to me at dinner and in my opinion If the mom has never seen your show, I do not think you have to re-examine the quality of your show.
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Nov 10, 2015 09:16PM)
Well, you have a point there. A mom whom has never seen my show may not know how good I am. But I don't want to rely on a rabbit in order to [i]sell[/i] a show. If I can't sell a show without having to resort to "I have a rabbit", or "I don't do balloons", or my customer feedback relies on a commentary about a rabbit, I'm not doing my job either as a performer or a salesman. Rabbits are fine. I used them for years. I just choose not to have them, so I find other ways to both entertain and sell my show.

I can honestly say I can't remember the last time I was specifically asked to bring a rabbit, or leave balloons. I think we, as magicians, make too big a deal out of them. Copperfield came up at a time when large animals like tigers were common on magic acts but he hardly ever used animals and become the biggest name in magic, maybe the biggest ever. We all have to go with our strengths, and if one uses a rabbit, SELL IT AS PART OF YOUR SHOW! Make it earn its keep!
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 10, 2015 10:34PM)
I don't rely in my rabbit to sell my show, my show sells because of two things; my enthusiasm on the telephone talking to the mom and the tricks in the 4 large cases I haul into the home, plus the Jeff Jones Backdrop I set up.

I set myself apart from the other 400 magicians in the San Francisco area because 90% of the tricks are large colorful stage magic, the show does not have any coin, thumb tips, rope or card tricks and except for the Jokers Tube routine, I never get a comment from the older kids yelling out "I've seen this one before" I have no attache case that I carry in and place on a waiters X stand.

The rabbit is a classic ending to a magic show and it's very exciting for the kids to see and the reason I am there is to present to the kids exciting entertainment

In fact I'm now having an illusion custom built to use along with my live stock cage in my stage shows to expand my rabbit routine and include two rabbits to end my show in what I think will be a very unique and entertaining ending.

And I accomplish all this without blowing up one balloon.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 11, 2015 08:05AM)
[quote]On Nov 10, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote:
Tony;

Do you even read my posts before you go off on a tangent?

[/quote]
I do. It's a shame you don't think before you post them. I have said repeatedly that no child has died from a balloon model handed to her from an entertainer. And to try to disprove my TRUE assertion, you post a link to a tragic death that did not come about in that way. Read the article you posted. Look beyond the headline and read what happened. It has no bearing on my point.

As for your rude attack on Al Kazam, I googled the very same phrase you claim to have googled, and his name came up FIRST on the search.

You say that you never claim to be the best in San Francisco, yet for a long time you marketed yourself as "Voted the best ventriloquist in San Francisco." I asked you about it in the ventriloquism forum here and you admitted you made it up. How does that square with your needless attack on Al?
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 11, 2015 09:42AM)
Tony;

Concerning my website claim;

You looked at my website at the time; did the website say I was the best magician in San Francisco? as Al is claiming he is the best entertainer in Perth? NO!

The answer is very simple and I explained the reason to you at the time; at the time I had that claim on my website, I was THE ONLY "ventriloquist based in San Francisco." with an office and a business license and since I was receiving positive feedback, I had it on my website; when another "ventriloquist" based his business in San Francisco, I removed the claim; at the time the statement was a true statement;.

About your post here, you have twisted the truth again. I NEVER admitted I made it up; when you first asked, that's is what I told you; I don't know why you have the need to misstate a fact; Why can't you post the complete explanation? you omit the whole explanation which I find to be despicable?

Concerning the balloon deaths;

When you write that no balloon twister has ever caused the death of a child, I still don't agree that you are making a true statement.

You reference the first link on the single death. why don't you not comment on the second link that states 3.000 children die in the USA because of choking on balloons?

Can you still say that not one of the other 3,000 children's deaths mentioned on the second link was not handed a balloon by a balloon twister?

Does it matter to you how a child dies? as long as the balloon is not given to a child by a balloon twister, let kids die?

Concerning you defense of Al Kazam;

My question is, why are you defending Al?

Can't Al explain his own actions?

I will answer your question anyhow.

I did not attack Al Kazam; Al decided to snoop around my website and ask the same question he asked a few years back.

My question is, why is he so interested in how I run my business and why does he feel he has the right to question the prices of my shows?

Now that I did the same thing he did, questioned something on his website. you call it rude. why are you not asking AL why he is claiming to be the best?

why don't you ask Al why he has no charitable program on his website.

Why don't you ask Al why is he questioning my business practices?

I am not rude, I believe it's fair, Al opened the can of worms; he asked me to explain a program, I asked him to explain a claim.

As far as his "giving back to the community that supports him, he reply was that "I trust him"

Concerning your Google Searches;

As far as you cutting and pasting the best entertainer in Perth, I see you don't know much about Google searches.

Google results have nothing to do with who is the best, it matches the phrase on a website and because the more popular magicians in Perth do not place untrue claims on their website, Al Kazam came up first.

If you paste a phrase into Google the phrase will come up first on a search, this does not mean Google agrees with the claim.

Al Kazam has made a claim on his website; if you cut & paste the wording into Google the search will match websites.

To search for the best entertainer; it is necessary to click on the links of the websites that compile votes of the best entertainers in Perth.

When you have the website open, you will see that parents that voted on the website DID NOT vote Al Kazam as "The Best" Al Kazam was way down the list of the BEST magicians in Perth; Customers that hired the magician voting on a website determines who is best; a Google search does not determine who the best is.

Have I made myself clear?

The bottom line is; a Google search only tells us that the phase is best matched to a phase on a website.,

I posted on my website that I was the best ventriloquist because at the time I was the only ventriloquist in San Francisco with at the time the best positive feedback.

Balloons are dangerous, but I do not post that balloons be banned as you posted in the past that rabbits should be banned from magic shows and the only use for a rabbit is on a dinner plate.

By the vote of the parents in Perth, Al Kazam was not voted the Best Entertainer In Perth;
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 11, 2015 10:03AM)
[quote]On Nov 11, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote:
You reference the first link on the single death. why don't you not comment on the second link that states 3.000 children die in the USA because of choking on balloons?

Can you still say that not one of the other 3,000 children's deaths mentioned on the second link was not handed a balloon by a balloon twister?

Does it matter to you how a child dies? as long as the balloon is not given to a child by a balloon twister, let kids die?[/quote]
I did not comment on your second link because it is not pertinent. My claim was, and still is, that balloon modellers have not killed children. You cannot dispute this because it is true. You can quote irrelevant statistics all you like but it doesn't change the truth of my assertion.

As to the last part of your ridiculous statement quoted above, of course I care how kids die. I am a parent and am not in favour of kids dying at all. But I don't feel guilt for what I am in no way responsible for. Balloon modellers don't kill kids, except in your head. And from your postings, in your head seems to be a strange country.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 11, 2015 10:21AM)
Tony;

I think since you posted that I was rude to answer Al on this thread, Will you post on this thread your comments about Al's claim about being the best entertainer in Perth?

Since the websites that compile votes of who is the "BEST" voted Al Kazam with a 7.2 on one website and another website placed Al Kazam at number 7 on the website and no independent website that compiles votes from parents that hired magicians voted Al Kazam as the BEST entertainer in Perth.

what are your thoughts?

Should Al remove the claim from his website?
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 11, 2015 12:01PM)
[quote]On Nov 10, 2015, Karen Climer wrote:
"when has a performer ever given out a a deflated balloon?" Every once in a while, someone will ask for an uninflated balloon, usually it's a teenager. This is not during a show, but if I'm doing line work. I always tell the teenager that I can't give him an uniflated balloon because it's a choking hazard. Of course, this drives the teen crazy. Obviously he is old enough not to choke on it, but it's fun to use that as an excuse. The real reason is that I'm not a balloon store. I'm a balloon entertainer. I don't provide balloons. I provide entertainment. Somehow that wouldn't be as much fun to say to a teenager.

In any case, Tony, you are right. If we thought of every possible problem that could possibly happen, we would all be out of business. The people would not even be able to get to our shows because it's possible that they could get in a car accident on the way to the show. [/quote]

Karen;

I looked at your website and it looks like you are a very accomplished balloon twister.

You mention in your post in this thread that you "perform a show" and you twist balloons for children in line.

I understand the "line work" but I was wondering what type of show you perform as an entertainer?
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Nov 11, 2015 12:20PM)
[i]"According to the National SAFE KIDS Campaign, each year over 100,000 children under age 4 are treated in hospital emergency rooms for toy-related injuries, and 17 children die. Approximately one-third of the deaths result from choking; and one-third of the choking deaths result from latex balloons. "[/i]

Let's look at that. 17 die. 1/3 from choking, so that's about 5-1/2 kids. 1/3 from latex balloons, that's 1 child and part of a child.

Now, we don't know the circumstances. Was the child left unattended, maybe have a latex allergy that added to the choking (caused the throat to swell), etc.

So if I can find ONE child a year who dies from animal-related cause, should we stop using rabbits? It just seems like an overreaction for a relatively small likelihood of happening. The birthday child is more likely to die from running into the street waiting for than magician to arrive than from a balloon, so maybe we should stop arriving in vehicles.

LOTS more people die in traffic accidents, but we still drive our kids in cars. More die in airplanes (among the safest mode of travel), but we still fly. It illogical to stop using balloons based on such insignificant numbers.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 11, 2015 12:34PM)
Starrpower, thanks for the reality check. Hopefully some here will read that and cop themselves on.

Howie, you claimed that you had been voted best ventriloquist in San Francisco. A lie - there was no vote. Al never made the claim that anyone voted him best.

By the way, as a pure matter of fact, the second link you asked me to read (which I did and you apparently didn't) mentions 17 deaths, not 3,0000. Why do you keep wasting our time? Were you starved of attention as a child?
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 11, 2015 01:50PM)
[quote]On Nov 11, 2015, Starrpower wrote:
[i]"According to the National SAFE KIDS Campaign, each year over 100,000 children under age 4 are treated in hospital emergency rooms for toy-related injuries, and 17 children die. Approximately one-third of the deaths result from choking; and one-third of the choking deaths result from latex balloons. "[/i]

Let's look at that. 17 die. 1/3 from choking, so that's about 5-1/2 kids. 1/3 from latex balloons, that's 1 child and part of a child.

Now, we don't know the circumstances. Was the child left unattended, maybe have a latex allergy that added to the choking (caused the throat to swell), etc.

So if I can find ONE child a year who dies from animal-related cause, should we stop using rabbits? It just seems like an overreaction for a relatively small likelihood of happening. The birthday child is more likely to die from running into the street waiting for than magician to arrive than from a balloon, so maybe we should stop arriving in vehicles.

LOTS more people die in traffic accidents, but we still drive our kids in cars. More die in airplanes (among the safest mode of travel), but we still fly. It illogical to stop using balloons based on such insignificant numbers. [/quote]

I had a conversation with a mom about making sure I only used my rabbit and that no balloons were part of my show because of an allergy issue with her child.

My intention in this thread was to focus on a conversation between the rabbit VS balloon subject with magicians using balloons and magicians using rabbits.

I wanted to discuss with members here on the Café if it was true or false that while a magician was having conversations with parents,

A. If more parents are choosing performers using rabbits and not hiring magicians using balloon because of a danger of a latex allergy and choking.

B. If more parents are choosing performers using balloons and not concerned with a latex allergy or a choking hazard.

There is a allergy issue with using either a rabbit or balloons.

It was a simple premise; I was looking for an intelligent exchange of dialog; then Tony posted that he did not approve of the subject of the thread.

[quote]On Oct 29, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Howie, we had a pointless and futile discussion on this topic that went no place, and now you are bringing it up again just a week later. You are doing it to be vexatious. There is no other purpose to this thread. And we all know that, despite what you may think. [/quote]

After his rant, the thread was progressing normally until Al Kazam decided that his question which had nothing to do with rabbits, or balloons had to be asked.

[quote]On Nov 8, 2015, Al Kazam the Magic Man wrote:
I took a peek at Howie's website, (link in a Howie post a couple above this) and to say I'm confused is an understatement.

I can't figure out your rational for the cheap (maybe free) show option you offer. Doesn't seem like a good strategy to me. Then again, I'm just sharing my opinion. Then the continual plugging of giving away rabbits to everyone is also interesting. Adopting them,,,,buying them, have the family come on stage for the presentation of the give away rabbit to the birthday child etc etc. All very interesting. [/quote]

Al Kazam was correct one point, he is a confused man.

Then I asked Al Kazam a question, that Al Kazam has not replied to, so Tony answered in Al's behalf.

Tony posted that I was rude asking his friend Al Kazam a question about the legitimacy of his claim.

I answered both questions and now what I hoped would have been an interesting conversation is totally off topic.

[quote]On Nov 11, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:.
Howie. Al never made the claim that anyone voted him best. [/quote]

Seriously, that’s your defense?

Why didn't Al Kazam just proclaimed himself the best entertainer in the world…LOL

Starpower,

The thread is dead; I won't spend the time answering your comment in your post.

The thread is confused, the thread has gone way off track; members with positive comments are no longer posting and because of Tony a member that sells a DVD on swallowing balloons, he will defend balloons at all costs because of an income stream and Al Kazam, a member that thrives to be confrontational the conversation is now totally destroyed.

I really am looking forward to Al Kazam's answer to my question in this thread,

My goal of the thread has not been achieved.

Members on the Café did find out two things from this thread;

1. Tony knows nothing about a Google search

2. Despite Al Kazam's claims and Tony defense of Al's title; Al Kazam is not the best entertainer in Perth.

but if Al Kazam can legitimately defend his claim of being the best entertainer in Perth, I am very interested in reading it.
Message: Posted by: jay leslie (Nov 11, 2015 02:38PM)
In a national survey, I was voted best magician in the world by 3 out of 4 people

I asked my mum, my dad, my brother and a hometless guy standing on a corner

But at least I have a survey to back me up :)
Message: Posted by: MichaelCGM (Nov 11, 2015 03:02PM)
[quote]On Nov 10, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:Michael, no one has been able to produce a single instance of a child dying as a result of an entertainer giving out a balloon. That is what I am saying. I am not saying it is impossible, just that it has not happened. Of course it could. And a child could swallow a sponge ball and choke. So do we ban those? A chair suspension could fall and hit a prone child on the head and kill him. Do we ban that prop? Or do we use common sense? Balloon modelling has been going on since 1939. 76 years, and we are still awaiting Howie's doomsday scenario. [/quote]

First, let me be clear. I use balloons in my act and have for over 30 years. And I will continue to use them. So I am not against balloons. I am simply addressing your untenable claim, specifically that, " child has died due to a performer giving him a 260. It has not happened." So the sponge ball example is irrelevant. This is simply opinion and not fact.

The study cited in the Journal of the American Medical Association, that was referenced in the Times article I linked to, listed proven statistics that support the argument that latex balloons are a choking hazard. The statistics did NOT break down what type of balloons and under what specific instances the choking occurred. For that reason, one cannot rule out 260 balloons, since they are, indeed latex. One can also not rule out, with any certainty, that a 260, given out by a balloon artist, did not later break at the child's residence and create one of the choking instances cited. So, both the 260 argument and the magician/performer argument are moot, because the study and available statistics do not address the specific source of broken or uninflated latex that caused the danger.

However, the study does, indeed prove that broken or uninflated latex balloons post a choking hazard – which has been Howie’s argument all along. To claim that choking from a 260, provided by a magician "as not happened" is completely unsupportable - ergo, opinion or speculation. That is what I'm pointing out, as well as pointing out that Howie’s assertion that balloons pose a choking hazard is, indeed well documented and supported. In fact, Howie clearly stated, "I don't post this warning to prevent other magicians and balloon twisters from giving out balloons, I post a warning here to warn other members to be observant and use caution when giving out balloons." So this is not about banning balloons or any other possible hazard from our shows. Rather it is a simple statement of fact about balloons being a choking hazard.

With respect,
Message: Posted by: MichaelCGM (Nov 11, 2015 03:42PM)
Back on point. I've only been asked to not use balloons once in my entire career. It was for a Children's Hospital. They mentioned the latex allergy but didn't mention the choking hazard. I've never been asked not to use my rabbit. However, I stopped using livestock when I moved to a briefcase act, not just because of the space restrictions, but to eliminate the maintenance and upkeep of livestock. Balloons don't eat quite as much and are better potty trained. :)
Message: Posted by: Rook (Nov 11, 2015 04:54PM)
Since my wife raises rabbits, I'm stuck with the upkeep anyway, so I might as well use them :). I've been asked not to bring the rabbit/dove on a few occasions. On occasion, the organizer would be concerned regarding health codes or potential allergies of the attendees. Once or twice, the client had moral objections to the use of animals in entertainment.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 11, 2015 05:21PM)
Rook; Rabbits will drive the children to a frenzy and I always end my show with the rabbit production.

A word about the USDA Licensee; it is necessary to have a licenses to perform with a rabbit in a magic show; the penalty is steep

The only number I have is the California region, calling this number will get you to the proper person.

The cost is only $40.00

Buzz
Katie
970.494.7587
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 11, 2015 05:25PM)
Howie, you make a great secretary. You have found your vocation. Thank you for repeating this whole pointless thread.

Michael, I agree with you in large. There is a miniscule chance of a child choking on a burst modelling balloon. It hasn't happened yet (we all know that the publicity surrounding that would have brought it to our attention). It may happen in the future, but it may also happen in the future that a rabbit will trigger a fatal asthma attack in a child. My point, and everyone bar one agrees, is that we soldier on as we have been, because it is actually safe.

What Howie's point is - aside from being divisive and argumentative - eludes me.
Message: Posted by: MichaelCGM (Nov 11, 2015 05:43PM)
[quote]On Nov 11, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:

Michael, I agree with you in large. There is a miniscule chance of a child choking on a burst modelling balloon. It hasn't happened yet (we all know that the publicity surrounding that would have brought it to our attention). It may happen in the future, but it may also happen in the future that a rabbit will trigger a fatal asthma attack in a child. My point, and everyone bar one agrees, is that we soldier on as we have been, because it is actually safe. [/quote]

I agree that we agree, pretty much. I also agree that the risk is minuscule. In fact, in one of Howie's links, that you referenced in one of your responses, deaths attributed to toys was, indeed 17. Only one third of the deaths were the result of "choking." or 5.66. And only one third of the choking deaths were balloon related or 1.88. So the risk is minimal. Of course, the link I provided cites the AMA as listing balloons as the #2 cause of choking deaths in children. Our ONLY disagreement is whether anyone can say that none are the result of modeling balloons, based solely on the publicity aspect. Other than that, we're on the same page.
Message: Posted by: Rook (Nov 11, 2015 05:48PM)
Good point regarding the USDA license. It's an added benefit that my magic rabbit, Hope, is becoming certified by Pet Partners (formerly the Delta Society) as a therapy animal next week.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 11, 2015 06:00PM)
[quote]On Nov 11, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
Howie, you make a great secretary. You have found your vocation. Thank you for repeating this whole pointless thread.

Michael, I agree with you in large. There is a miniscule chance of a child choking on a burst modelling balloon. It hasn't happened yet (we all know that the publicity surrounding that would have brought it to our attention). It may happen in the future, but it may also happen in the future that a rabbit will trigger a fatal asthma attack in a child. My point, and everyone bar one agrees, is that we soldier on as we have been, because it is actually safe.

What Howie's point is - aside from being divisive and argumentative - eludes me. [/quote]

Tony;

I am not copying the thread, I am attempting to make my point clear since my points elude you; you have problems understanding and absorbing and you forget what is written in the earlier posts, so I feel it is necessary to remind you; you think the thread is pointless because you don't understand the point of the thread

First you think there is a minuscule chance of a child choking on a burst modelling balloon; you would not consider the tragedy a minuscule chance if the dead child is your child.

Second, there is a documented video of a child choking and dying because of a balloon; the video does not point out the type of balloon, or who handed the balloon to her; she is dead because she choked on a balloon; you just don't care who dies as long as you can sell your balloon swallowing DVD's.

Michael has made very good points; your problem is, you don't read and you don't understand the posts.

your are the one being divisive and argumentative

I guess you find dead children an acceptable loss of life as long as you do not have to face the issue of balloons being a serious and real choking hazard, acknowledging a danger and advise new balloon twisters to heed a warning to be observant and to be sure that deflated and busted balloons are picked up while they are working as a balloon twister.

Members like Rook Starpower and Michael who are posting good points are being buried because of your greed to defend your DVD sales and your narrow view
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 11, 2015 07:08PM)
[quote]On Nov 11, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote:
The thread is dead; I won't spend the time answering your comment in your post.
[/quote]
If only we could believe that.

This thread was dead right from your first argumentative post.

If I had any respect for you I would find your characterization of me as an uncaring person willing to see children choke to death to sell DVDs deeply offensive. But everyone reading these silly pages will know I have not pushed my DVD or book here. Not only have I not pushed them, I have not mentioned them.

Why don't you do us all a favour and let this drop?
Message: Posted by: RealityOne (Nov 11, 2015 08:56PM)
This thread has really opened my eyes as to what it means by magicians helping magicians. After reading this thread, I took my rabbit out back, said my goodbyes and took a knife to its throat. I skinned it, cooked it up in a nice cacciatore sauce and served it over pasta. My stomach was a little upset afterwards -- maybe I'm allergic to hossenfeffer or just didn't put enough carrots in the cacciatore. I also took my two bags of twisting balloons and tossed them in a nearby river so that they would never get in the hands of children or present a hazzard to anyone. I felt good because all the fish seemed to be eating the balloons for lunch. Heck, I could only make a balloon sword and a balloon fish (which really looked like 2/3rds of a snowman turned sideways).

I've replaced the rabbit act and the balloon twisting with a wonderful game effect:

http://www.worldmagicshop.com/spike-stage-size/

an amazingly visual demonstration:

http://www.ellusionist.com/pyro-handheld-fireshooter-by-adam-wilber.html

and a great version of out of this world:

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic/close-up-magic/french-postcards/

Now I can claim to be the best rated children's entertainer in the world to perform using dangerously sharp objects, fire balls and nudity.

[NOTE: no rabbits, fish or children were actually harmed in the writing of this post]
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 11, 2015 09:17PM)
[quote]On Nov 11, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:
[quote]On Nov 11, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote:
The thread is dead; I won't spend the time answering your comment in your post.
[/quote]
If only we could believe that.

This thread was dead right from your first argumentative post.

If I had any respect for you I would find your characterization of me as an uncaring person willing to see children choke to death to sell DVDs deeply offensive. But everyone reading these silly pages will know I have not pushed my DVD or book here. Not only have I not pushed them, I have not mentioned them.

Why don't you do us all a favour and let this drop? [/quote]

Tony;

As usual I don't think you understand so let me go through it slowly and I may have to repeat myself.

First off, My characterization of you as an uncaring person willing to see children choke to death is right on and accurate, as long as the balloon was not handed over by a balloon twister .

Secondly, This is my thread, you have posted in it and killed it with your constant arguing and misinforming everyone with your lack of tact and knowledge.

Lastly I really don't know how you can tell me you have never advertised your DVD on the Café; pasted below are two threads where you blatantly and shamefully advertise your balloon swallowing DVD and book that you just posted in your feeble attempt to discredit me that you have never pushed, mentioned or advertised on the Café.

Tony; on the Café, you have no credibility.

No one can believe anything you say because of exactly what you have just lied about to make your point

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=597591&forum=17

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=336242&forum=181

BTW I can hear the squeaky wheels turning in your head now, you plan to search the Café to see if I have advertised my products.

if you look deep enough, you will find on the Café threads where I have discussed my ring in gumball machine illusion and my tools for the card splitting DVD.

The difference is, I NEVER said I do not talk about my creations on the Café, so save your time.

The bottom line is you are willing to minimize the danger of chocking on a balloon and seeing children choke to death to sell your balloon swallowing DVD
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 12, 2015 03:34AM)
[quote]On Nov 11, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote:
My characterization of you as an uncaring person willing to see children choke to death is right on and accurate, as long as the balloon was not handed over by a balloon twister .
[/quote]
Howie, you really are an insufferable troll.

Try rereading. I said I had not used this thread to push my DVD. I haven't. You resurrect two old threads, where people ask for specific information and I give it. That is 'magicians helping magicians'. In one of those threads I actually mentioned someone else's DVD (Justin Meitz). Kind of destroys your point about me using this site to push dangerous tricks, doesn't it?

Over the years many people have PMed me for information on balloon swallowing. In each case I have supplied the information, often copying and pasting the entire contents of my book on the subject, and have never once told them to buy the book or DVD. I give out the information freely.

In common with every other balloon worker here I have never placed a child in danger, and would never believe it is okey to do that to make a quick buck. You owe us all an apology. But we won't hold our breaths. We know you and apologies. You never apologise, just invent crazy stories about computers being hacked. Some of us have long memories here.
Message: Posted by: Al Kazam the Magic Man (Nov 12, 2015 04:30AM)
I can say with all honesty that I actually have TonyB's magic book. It is wonderful and I read it a lot. I've gotten some great ideas from it.

I don't do the balloon swallow myself, but use some of the patter ideas and gags from his routine in my own silly balloon routine in my shows. I found it on Amazon and highly recommend it.

One good thing I like about TonyB is he is not pushy with his products, and he also has some great insights into entertaining children.

I'm too busy doing shows and laughing my guts out at this thread to be bothered to answer Mr. Buzz "Howie" Lawrence. Honestly, trust me...I'm having a real good belly laugh.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 12, 2015 07:28AM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2015, Al Kazam the Magic Man wrote:
I can say with all honesty that I actually have TonyB's magic book. It is wonderful and I read it a lot. I've gotten some great ideas from it.

I don't do the balloon swallow myself, but use some of the patter ideas and gags from his routine in my own silly balloon routine in my shows. I found it on Amazon and highly recommend it.

One good thing I like about TonyB is he is not pushy with his products, and he also has some great insights into entertaining children.

I'm too busy doing shows and laughing my guts out at this thread to be bothered to answer Mr. Buzz "Howie" Lawrence. Honestly, trust me...I'm having a real good belly laugh. [/quote]

Your laugh is the nervous laugh of a man caught in his own lies.

First. I can't find one positive feedback on the entire internet about your shows; you say you are the "best entertainer in Perth", that's a lie, so telling us you get a lot out of Tony's book is also a lie.

Second you did not reply to the question of why you lie on your website and have made claims that are not true; the answer is that in real life you're a second rate hack with no talent or credibility.

Third, it's not how good Tony's books and videos are; it's that he also lied when he posted that he never mentioned his books and videos on the Café when it's proven that he has his advertisements all over the Café.

He lies, you lie, it is obvious that every time your fingers touch the keyboard, you are typing crap and lies and neither of you have an honest bone in your bodies and no one on the Café can trust what you say.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 12, 2015 08:04AM)
Howie, when a child throws a temper tantrum the adults walk away.

Listen... you might be able to hear the footsteps... as we recede into the distance... laughing
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 12, 2015 08:09AM)
You mean you are really are not going to post here in the future😄

Caught in lies and you won't admit it :goof:

You and your friend can go, we don't need lies and negative comments here

Never mentioned your DVD's on the Café... HA!

Go away with your lies
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 12, 2015 08:14AM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote:
we don't need lies and negative comments here
[/quote]
That's why we're walking away from you... still laughing
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 12, 2015 09:36AM)
Still trying to avoid the fact that you lied again

You laugh the laugh of a man coughs in his own web of lies

You post that you have never mentioned your DVD's on the Café and you were cought

You would not care if a child chokes to death as long as you can profit and sell your DVD's

You're trying to change the subject and tell us you're walking. away; the truth is you are ashamed of yourself

Both you and that other second rate hack Al Kazam AKA jojo the clown are both clowns in real life
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 12, 2015 10:24AM)
You still here, Howie? You promised a page ago that you would not post here again. Guess that was a lie so? Caught you.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 12, 2015 11:14AM)
Really getting desperate

You have twisted the truth again in your post

Tell us why you posted that you never mentioned your sales of DVD' and books when you have posted shameless advertisements?
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 12, 2015 11:20AM)
The more you post the more you prove your promise not to post was a lie. Just like your 'voted best ventriloquist in San Francisco'. I googled it and never found the vote. Just like your claim that your computer was hacked when you were asked to apologize for past transgressions.

Howie you owe every balloon twister here an apology. It's a shame you don't have the class to realize that.
Message: Posted by: John Martin (Nov 12, 2015 11:38AM)
Howie's trying hard to dissuade entertainers from using balloons. He cites it as hazardous. The statistics seem to prove otherwise. His alternative is to use a bunny. He tells us no child has died from coming into contact with a bunny. The statistics seem to prove Howie correct with this assumption. However, in the best interest of our famous furry friends, the bunny, HOW safe is using them in a show? With children present? How many poor little bundles fur have lost their innocent lives in the line of duty? Howie have you thought of what you're putting your pet though. Stress, anxiety, worse yet POTENTIAL death!!!! I've never seen a balloon sculpture die in the line of duty. Oh sure the occasional dog, cat or giraffe pops prematurely. This is usually the result of a pre-existing condition. Here's some reading for you Howie:
http://hubpages.com/animals/What-Are-The-Causes-Of-Sudden-Death-In-Rabbits Of note in this article : Injured during improper handling by children. and Fear-related heart attack.

Howie, you'd better change your ways or you may find yourself on this list: http://sebreg.deviantart.com/art/Death-Rabbit-184773016

All in fun of course. Carry on with the fun..............

John
Message: Posted by: Al Kazam the Magic Man (Nov 12, 2015 12:20PM)
I think I've seen this happen before. Need to take a big breath Howie.

For everyone's viewing pleasure I present to you:

http://kids-magic.com/video.php

I'll be the first to admit that the video clip on my site is pretty crap. It's from 8 years back and my current show is quite different.

To clarify a little thing.....I got TonyB's book on magic from a recommendation from another well known magician that seems to get himself banned from every place he visits.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 12, 2015 04:29PM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2015, Al Kazam the Magic Man wrote:
To clarify a little thing.....I got TonyB's book on magic from a recommendation from another well known magician that seems to get himself banned from every place he visits. [/quote]
I am so glad I didn't recommend it to you!
Message: Posted by: Zuke (Nov 12, 2015 11:26PM)
I'll just chime in quickly to say I was pointed in TonyB's direction by another magician and I purchased his DVD which is excellent. I have got some great things from it that I use regularly. Additionally, I'm also well aware of Al's work and he is top notch, he's been a pro for many, many years and does a brilliant show. That's the truth.

Now Howie, I suggest you let it go, step away from the computer, go and remove your mildly distressed rabbit from whatever cramped box or compartment you've got him in, make yourself a cuppa, sit down, relax and keep telling yourself that animals like to be shoved into small boxes because in the wild they live in burrows. That will make you (and all of us) feel a lot better...except of course the rabbit, he'll probably still resent you.

:)
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 12, 2015 11:32PM)
Zuke,

I could see you are friends of Al and Tony, that does not bode well for you.

You are a puppet of the other two morons I am dealing with now, so from here on in I'll just ignore you
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 12, 2015 11:50PM)
John Martin;

I can't tell if you are just posting here in the thread to add to the conversation, or you are also friends of Al and Tony, so until I see how you discuss the subject with me, I will respect you as a professional

My Rabbit is healthy; I have the necessary USDA permits to use a rabbit in a magic show; the USDA requires that the rabbit be looked at by a vet every year before the permit is renewed, so the rabbit has a physical every year.

I actually own two rabbits, one for my show and the other rabbit to keep each other company, both are thriving.

The rabbit is produced from a livestock cage not a box which affords the rabbit plenty of air and space; the rabbit is of course fed daily and the rabbits extra large cage is cleaned every other day.

The show ends with the rabbit appearing and the children are lined up to pet the rabbit while the rabbit is being held in a lap by one of the female parents attending the show; I instruct the mom to hold the head and not allow the children to pet the rabbit on its head to protect the eyes.

The children are instructed to pet the rabbit lightly using two fingers only.



Buzz
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 12, 2015 11:56PM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2015, Al Kazam the Magic Man wrote:


I'll be the first to admit that the video clip on my site is pretty crap.

[/quote]

Al; not only is the video clip on your site crap, the entire website is crap.

Why do you have to lie about being the best entertainer in Perth, when you are not the best entertainer?
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 13, 2015 12:19AM)
[quote]On Nov 11, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:

I have not pushed my DVD or book here. Not only have I not pushed them, I have not mentioned them.[/quote]

[quote]On Nov 11, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote:

I really don't know how you can tell me you have never advertised or mentioned your DVD on the Café; pasted below are two threads where you blatantly and shamefully advertise your balloon swallowing DVD and book that you just posted in your feeble attempt to discredit me that you have never pushed, mentioned or advertised on the Café.

Tony; on the Café, you have no credibility.

No one can believe anything you say because of exactly what you have just lied about to make your point

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=597591&forum=17

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=336242&forum=181

[/quote]

As usual I don't think you understand so let me go through it slowly and I may have to repeat myself.

Do you see your words, where you tell everyone that you never mentioned your DVD’s and books?

Do you see the links to Café threads where you mention your DVD’s and books?

Do you see the word mentioned? The key word is mentioned. Do you understand the word mentioned? the links of you discussing your DVD's and books means you mentioned your DVD and books on the Café.

Need I say more?
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 13, 2015 05:34AM)
Wonderful secretarial work there as usual Howie. You have found your calling, and it is never too late to change career.

By the way I wouldn't be in a rush to criticize other people's websites and videos, lest someone have the bad manners to comment on yours.

On a final note I wish I had as many friends as you think I have. In Ireland the criterium for being a friend is knowing someone well enough to like them a lot. Knowing them is kind of an important part of the process here. Apparently in San Francisco the criterium is not agreeing wholeheartedly with Howie. On that basis I must have a huge cohort of friends I have never even heard of.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 13, 2015 09:30AM)
[quote]On Nov 13, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:

secretarial work there as usual Howie.

By the way I wouldn't be in a rush to criticize other people's websites and videos, lest someone have the bad manners to comment on yours.

On a final note I wish I had as many friends [/quote]

Tony;

Let me quote your post

"By the way I wouldn't be in a rush to criticize other people's websites and videos, lest someone have the bad manners to comment on yours."

Al Kazam was the first to HAVE THE BAD MANNERS TO comment on my websites rabbit program and charitable show, so point your criticism towards Al Kazam as the first to comment on a website.

Al Kazam has posted links to my website, Tony his BAD MANNERS by referring to my website,

I will repeat; I looked at Al's website because he looked at mine first; you MUST tell him that he posses BAD MANNERS.,

The mention of my websites is a personal issue, you may not like it, but the information on my website is truthful and honest.

if you refrain from MENTIONING my website I will not comment on your website.

I don't need to LIE about being the best to book a show.

Any way, why are you defending Al Kazam again. is he that embarrassed about lying on his website that he is the best, when in fact he stinks?

Are you trying to deflect that you have lied about never mentioning the books and DVD's to prove your point and again as in the past failed in your feeble attempt,

Just answer the questions, I answer your questions, when they are lucid.

Question 1, how do you define mention?

Question 2. Do you think the low death rate for children choking on balloons are an acceptable number because you want to continue o profit on selling your DVD's and books?


Lets keep a focus.

Tony, look at the screen and read the words.... focus...answer the questions...

Don't ignore the questions with what you think are snappy comebacks; they are not... Just answer the question,

Two questions, read the questions and answer the questions.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 13, 2015 03:11PM)
This thread has managed to reach three pages - three tedious pages in which I did not mention my DVD (just one, Howie, not DVDs) - but I bet we could pare it down to one page if Howie hadn't spent so much time repeating what we have all said. Presumably we have all read what we said so I fail to see why he needs to keep just retyping it all. Perhaps he has too much time on his hands?

The real issue here is that Howie has defamed every balloon worker, accusing us of not caring whether children die from our performances. This despite the fact that it has never happened and is not a real danger. This despite the fact that none of us here are uncaring monsters who put our profits ahead of the lives of children. It is a deeply offensive position Howie has taken, but given his past performances on this forum, not a particularly surprising one.

If he was a man with a sense of honour or decency he would apologize to us for that horrible characterisation. But instead he acts as an unpaid secretary, just rehashing this sillyness in every post.

Howie, apologise and move on. Or if you are not man enough, at least do what you promised and stop perpetrating this silliness.
Message: Posted by: jay leslie (Nov 13, 2015 09:21PM)
Tony

What's this DVD of yours?
You didn't mention it so far.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 13, 2015 09:50PM)
[quote]On Nov 13, 2015, jay leslie wrote:
Tony

What's this DVD of yours?
You didn't mention it so far. [/quote]

Jay here are links to the threads where Tony advertises his DVD and book that he has never mentioned on the Café

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=597591&forum=17

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=336242&forum=181
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 13, 2015 10:00PM)
[quote]On Nov 12, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:

Howie, when a child throws a temper tantrum the adults walk away.

Listen... you might be able to hear the footsteps... as we recede into the distance... laughing [/quote]



Tony, When I first caught you in your lie instead of answering the simple question, this is what you posted; you promised to leave the thread, but you lied and you're still here

BTW as of this evening the thread has 37 likes; out of the 37 likes, you have one like attributed to a post you made, the post that has the one like is the post where you promised to leave.

So don't go off and ask all the people here you know ( since you already posted you have no friends) to come on in and post likes in your posts, it's too late for that.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 14, 2015 06:19AM)
[quote]On Nov 13, 2015, jay leslie wrote:
Tony

What's this DVD of yours?
You didn't mention it so far. [/quote]
Jay, I have chosen a new way of marketing. Howie is now pushing my products since I thought it would be insensitive to mention them myself on these pages. (Howie doesn't get the distinction between these pages and the forum as a whole, but Howie has comprehension challenges.)

It may seem a strange choice to let a guy with anger issues like Howie push my products, but he seems so enthusiastic. He keeps bringing them up. And perhaps pushing my products gives him a bit of a break from his secretarial duties on this thread.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 14, 2015 08:30AM)
Tony;

Since last night when I wrote my post indicating that you have zero likes, I have seen you have had your one friend on the Café come in and like your posts one time...LOL

Too little too late to rig the voting; voting closed when I counted the votes last night and you suffered a major loss.

The fact is, no one likes what you post on the Café except your one friend
Message: Posted by: MichaelCGM (Nov 14, 2015 12:33PM)
[quote]On Nov 14, 2015, Howie Diddot wrote:
Tony;

Since last night when I wrote my post indicating that you have zero likes, I have seen you have had your one friend on the Café come in and like your posts one time...LOL

Too little too late to rig the voting; voting closed when I counted the votes last night and you suffered a major loss.

The fact is, no one likes what you post on the Café except your one friend [/quote]

I wouldn't use "likes" as an indicator. First, you are incorrect. I have liked three of Tony's posts. Second, I only liked two of your posts, yet I'm supporting your argument - that balloons are a choking hazard. So you might just want to re-access the validity of basing interest or support on "likes." You might also want to let this feud go and get back to the original reason for the thread. Otherwise, you may alienate even your own supporters. Just a thought.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 14, 2015 09:50PM)
Isn't it strange how Michael can manage to disagree with my position without rancour. He manages to hold a completely different view than me without accusing me and other balloon workers of being callous and cruel monsters putting our purses ahead of the health and lives of children.

You could learn something there Howie.

By the way I did not solicit my friend Michael (whom I have never met or spoken to) to like my posts. I am glad he liked what I typed, but it wouldn't bother me in the slightest if he didn't. I am however distressed to find I am down to one friend at the Café - yesterday you accused three people of being my friend!
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 14, 2015 11:38PM)
Michael;

As you can see, Tony's last post is pure nonsense and an excellent example of how Tony will kill a thread

Aside from Tony's rant, Michael, You are correct in your post on many levels.

The thread should be on its original intent, but Tony as he has done in the past many times to many members here on the Café has killed the thread with his despicable conduct.

One of Tony’s earliest posts in this thread is

[quote]On Oct 29, 2015, TonyB2009 wrote:

Howie, we had a pointless and futile discussion on this topic that went no place, and now you are bringing it up again just a week later. You are doing it to be vexatious. There is no other purpose to this thread. And we all know that, despite what you may think. [/quote]

The other thread went on place because Tony killed it.

Why does Tony consider himself the person to decide what is a good thread and what threads it is pointless and stupid?

Tony has no right to make decisions in this manner; members posted positive comments on the subject, after Tony’s vile decree of the post being pointless and stupid and as the constructive comments were posted, Tony continued to post adverse commentaries such as his position that since a child could swallow a sponge ball and choke’ or a chair suspension could fall and hit a prone child on the head and kill him, in Tony’s mind we should not discuss the dangers of a child dying by choking on a deflated balloon because the number of children that do die every year is minute.

Michael; You also make a good point that I shouldn't use "likes" as an indicator; I posted the voted like comment late last night I posted the likes of posts in the thread and Tony had around two and three; meaning the remainder of the thirty four “likes” were for posts contradicting Tony’s point of view; the very next morning, early, before I went to perform my shows there were 62 likes with Tony gaining a number probably from members that Tony asked to come in and mark for him; I am counting the posts that were marked up to last night to enlighten Tony that his view of the dangers of choking on a balloon is in the minority.

Lastly as I answered Starpower post telling him that, the thread is dead because if any member posts anything that does not agree with Tony’s view, Tony will claim that there is no danger of a child choking at an event where a balloon twister is working., Tony again as he has done to so many other threads on the Café in his shameful demeanor has made members that were interested in the conversation refrain from further posting, and because of Tony, interested members will no longer post

Michael, I am taking your advice. I will no longer post in this dead thread about Tony’s views and I will allow Tony to get his last word to again explain one last time that it is not necessary for a balloon twister to be aware of the balloons bursting at an event and it is not necessary to make the attempt that the pieces of the balloon. be picked up and not left on the ground where a child will pick it up and put it in his mouth,

I will start another thread elsewhere and I would request that Tony stay away and not post any comments in any threads I create.
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 15, 2015 05:48AM)
Just to clarify for everyone (this will go over Howie's head, because he doesn't listen) I never asked anyone to like any of my posts. I'm not seven years old!

Howie, I don't decide what is a useful or a useless thread. The members do. But if you publish something to be vexatious and contentious, then you can expect to be called on that. Trolling wastes all our time.

And you ignore the fact that you have libelled balloon workers here by saying that we put our profits ahead of the safety of children. That is still an outrageous statement, for which you owe many people an apology. Since you will never do that, we would be equally happy to let this thread die.

But please stop lying about people. It is an unpleasant characteristic.
Message: Posted by: Al Kazam the Magic Man (Nov 15, 2015 07:56AM)
Howie "Buzz" Diddot, said: Michael, I am taking your advice. I will no longer post in this dead thread

Anyone want to take a wager on the above sentence that before the sun goes down "Mr Diddot" will indeed not be able to control himself and post in this very thread? :nana: :nana:
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Nov 15, 2015 08:13AM)
I am posting a request.

You are not seven years old, you just act lie you're seven years old.

You posted that the thread was useless, and after that post when members posted interesting information you attacked them; so they refrain from posting and having to read your crap.

I am not letting the thread die, you have killed the thread by your ridiculous posts that attack members that do not agree with your point of view

The purpose of this last post is to be sure you understand that I am not interested in your opinions and I rather that you do not post in threads I create in the future.

I hope I have made myself clear, I am not asking for any comments from you; the reason for this last post is to ask that you DO NOT POST in future threads I create
Message: Posted by: TonyB2009 (Nov 15, 2015 02:32PM)
I am delighted you are not interested in my opinions, Howie. The day my opinions are of value to a person like you I will have to rethink everything I believe.

I am sorry you are finally exiting this thread, because you still have not apologized to all the balloon workers you have slandered here.
Message: Posted by: jay leslie (Nov 16, 2015 03:03AM)
OK it's settled
Everyone disagrees, no one reads, the politics are different in different countries and all magicians stretch the truth whether it's on the stage or not.

But ... if everyone still wants to drag this out, a few more pages, I'll keep reading.
Message: Posted by: Al Kazam the Magic Man (Nov 17, 2015 10:41AM)
Yep,,,,,I'm going into mentalism. I got this one right. If only somebody took me up on the bet.
Message: Posted by: The Mighty Fool (Nov 20, 2015 12:27PM)
Wow....had to step over a lot of dead bodies & exploded shells to get here......

1) I would say that when a person whose balloon-twisting skills are limited to 'sword' speaks against the appeal of balloons in a show, it does not carry much weight.
2) Balloon-animals and live animals are enjoyed by, I would say, 90% of all potential clients.
3) Donald Dunphy's earlier caution was spot-on:when it comes to balloons, it's "Make for ONE, make for ALL" Especially in a daycare show.
4) If youre doing magic and balloons, do the magic first, because once you start the balloons there is NO GOING BACK!!
Message: Posted by: MrG (Feb 1, 2016 09:47PM)
This thread has been great reading before bedtime - thanks to all who contributed. Very entertaining.

I had no idea such fun could be had from..."a focus on a conversation between the rabbit VS balloon subject with magicians using balloons and magicians using rabbits."

Rabbits VS Balloons! Truly excellent.

I'll be over here with attaché case and waiter tray stand.
Message: Posted by: Dynamike (Feb 2, 2016 12:20AM)
[quote]On Nov 20, 2015, The Mighty Fool wrote:

3) Donald Dunphy's earlier caution was spot-on:when it comes to balloons, it's "Make for ONE, make for ALL" Especially in a daycare show.
[/quote]

I will admit I used to think like that years ago. Now I look at it differently. A mother tells me she wants the package from my website that supplies face painting and balloons after my magic show. I do not offer that package to all the kids at a daycare center. Some of those kids might be allergic to latex. I would just make a balloon for the birthday child if the parent gives me permission. I can understand some kids might not like it if they did not get a balloon. At least they enjoyed the entertainment with magic. It will inspire that child just as much to want me at their party so they can be the star of the show and receive a balloon.

Some kids might not be allergic to balloons. The daycare director hires me to make balloons for all the children. I would explain to the director I will put the balloons on the side of the room waiting for the children's parents to come pick up their child and make the decision to give their child a balloon or not.

Let's image face painting a child in a daycare center without the parent's permission. The child might not be allergic to face painting, but some parents will not like the entertainer taking that chance on their child without their permission. That can really cause a conflict.

Taking the wrong procedure with face painting or balloons towards, whether the child is allergic to it or not can push that parent to press charges towards the daycare center and entertainer.

Howie, I can understand using a rabbit makes a great USP, especially if you are the only one in your area using one. Imagine asking 100 parents if they wanted a rabbit to be presented in the magic show for their child. Most percentage will say "YES."

I can understand why you would leave the balloons at home and bring the rabbit. Because your profession is using a rabbit, not with balloons. If the performer entertains in a profession manner, bingo. It is no use doing so much to spread yourself too thin. Just do your profession because our goal is to entertain the crowd, not bore them. I can understand some performers trying to do more that what they can handle making themselves look bad. Howie is doing the right thing.

Using rabbits in a gig is safer that passing out balloons. I know cause I do both. It is much easier to put the pets away after the show without anyone getting hurt. Sometimes the kids encourage me they want to pet my rabbit. I have the kids stand in a line letting one go at a time. Afterwards I have the kids wash their hands before doing anything else. With balloons I am always alert making sure the kids do not place it in their mouth. At times I have noticed it. I tell the guardian not to let the child put the balloon in his/her mouth again.

Some people think there is no wrong or right about using rabbits or balloons for entertainment. That is incorrect. There is a wrong and right. A child can get hurt when a rabbit or balloons are used in a show. It all depends how much time the entertainer is putting in for everything to run safe for the kids. If the entertainer is being aware of the actions with the balloon or rabbit, that is the right way. If the performer is turning his or her back on things that can go wrong, that is the wrong way. The parents are not just paying us for entertainment, but to make sure kids are not getting hurt from our responsibilities.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Apr 14, 2018 09:48AM)
I just purchased a Rabbit Canon and a balloon to rabbit box from Smoky Mountain, I performed a search and this very old topic came up.

I still use a rabbit in my show and the balloon I use will burst in the box, so no children will be close enough to become ill and I have no fear of anyone choking.

The trick came UPS today, so I’ll post here after the first show to let everyone know how it went, depending on the reaction of the rabbit after the balloon bursts, I may not even use a balloon.
Message: Posted by: Danny Kazam (Apr 15, 2018 07:48PM)
One of the reasons why I don't do balloon animals in my show is because I have had a few clients complain about other children performers they had hired to do a magic show, and spent most of their show making balloon animals and sculptures. They weren't expecting the show to to be mostly about balloons, and felt rather disappointed than there wasn't more magic involved.

Apparently a magician came from out of town once and performed at an event. The performer spent the whole show making bubbles. The kids apparently had a good time, but the client told me that they did not expect that. They thought the performer would perform magic because they advertised themselves as a children's magician.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Apr 15, 2018 08:33PM)
Danny, I have heard it even gets more complicated then what you have posted. The issue of how much time spent performing magic and twisting balloons is valid, but then I have heard that the performer charges a fee per child attending and the child gets only the number of balloons contracted for in the agreement, if the child explodes the ballloon, or wants another balloon that another child has received, then the cost of the extra balloons twisted has to be calculated and paid for by the parents or promoter.

I also heard one story of the line being so long that the balloon twisted never got a balloon to everyone because he had another show to go to.. so some children did not even receive one balloon.

I haven’t performed with the new balloon to rabbit box yet, I will experiment until I am sure I can control one balloon placed in the box and out of the reach of children
Message: Posted by: Danny Kazam (Apr 15, 2018 09:36PM)
[quote]On Apr 15, 2018, Howie Diddot wrote:
Danny, I have heard it even gets more complicated then what you have posted. The issue of how much time spent performing magic and twisting balloons is valid, but then I have heard that the performer charges a fee per child attending and the child gets only the number of balloons contracted for in the agreement, if the child explodes the ballloon, or wants another balloon that another child has received, then the cost of the extra balloons twisted has to be calculated and paid for by the parents or promoter.

I also heard one story of the line being so long that the balloon twisted never got a balloon to everyone because he had another show to go to.. so some children did not even receive one balloon.

[/quote]

Yes, so true. I have heard the same things.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Apr 15, 2018 09:53PM)
I revived the thread to explore the use of the balloon to rabbit box, not necessarily to bash magicians that also provide services as balloon twisters.

I am interested in other members views of Danny post in which he brought up issues about providing both magic and balloon twisting in the same show along with the original question of using a balloon to rabbit box
Message: Posted by: Danny Kazam (Apr 16, 2018 12:17AM)
Yes, to make sure I am clear about my intent. It was not to bash any performer that does balloons in their show. Some performers make it clear about what they do during their show, and some clients specifically hire a performer because they can make balloon sculptures.
Message: Posted by: danfreed (Apr 16, 2018 02:49PM)
95% of my birthday clients have me add balloons and/or caricatures after the 45 minute magic/vent show. Some clients have me skip the show and just do caricature and/or balloons or occasionally game leading, but if they do that I have a 2hr minimum charge. When I chat with the client, online or email, I always ask aprox how many kids are invited, because I need to plan in advance how much time I need before scheduling a gig after it (so I'm no late for next gig), and to give the client an idea how long it would take (give or take 15 minutes). For birthdays I don't agree to a fixed length of time in advance for balloons or caricatures because I don't know how many kids will be there, and every party works out differently anyway. I tell them I charge X amount per 15 minutes and I stay for however long it takes and charge them for it. Agreeing to a fixed amount of time in advance, based on the # of kids invited, didn't work well when I tried it cause often the # of kids was much higher or lower than expected. Counting kids and charging per kid, when I tried it, was a pain in the neck cause the kids are all over the place around the house, arriving and leaving at different times, and I prefer to focus on entertaining them and getting stuff done rather than counting them, that was too much for me to focus on.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Apr 16, 2018 09:53PM)
Dan my friend, I became exhausted reading your post....LOL

Skipping part of the show.... Caricatures... balloon twisting... game leader.... no fixed price... no fixed time... more kids than expected....

I admire you for your planning... All I do is a 15 minute set up, a magic show, the more kids the merrier.... 15 minute pack-up and 3 trips to my motorhome, and back to the party in time for birthday cake

No Stress, No Pressure.... no worries


It’s been a very long time since we posted, weren’t you in Arizona last we were in contact?
Message: Posted by: danfreed (Apr 16, 2018 11:00PM)
I was in Oregon for 9 years, but moved to a Philly suburb 4 years ago. I don't need to plan much to do what I do, just get some basic info from the client, tell them my rates (on my website anyway), ask what they want, and I'm set. I show up 10 minutes early for set up, and that's it. Doing caricatures is easy, I just bring my big clipboard and markers, balloons are in a big apron kind of thing around my waist. No stress or worries, and giving them that option makes me different and they like that I can fill time and add fun, and less work for them. I make extra money at most gigs doing that. I like the variety.
Message: Posted by: Howie Diddot (Apr 16, 2018 11:09PM)
It’s good to make contact with you again....

I can’t draw, and I don’t do balloons, thinking about it, I could increase my income f I provided more services for kids,

Since we talked, I have expanded my work by performing as a mentalist and now I am working towards large stage productions