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Topic: Chroma by Nicholas Lawrence & Lloyd Barnes
Message: Posted by: GeraintClarke (Mar 2, 2016 07:43AM)
WATCH THE TRAILER HERE : http://www.ellusionist.com/chroma-by-lloyd-barnes-and-nicholas-lawrence.html


PRODUCT COPY :
Chroma is a versatile gaff that allows you to instantly print a card at your fingertips...with no cover.

Lloyd Barnes & Nicholas Lawrence have joined creative forces to take an under-used concept and update it for the modern day.

Each teaches their own unique handling's with this gimmick, allowing you to print cards, make signatures appear, stickers vanish and much much more.

- No flaps
- No folds
- No creases
- Use ANY cards, even Madison Blanks.

Everything you need to create this incredible gimmick is included in your specially constructed package.

We've thrown out all unnecessary packaging to make this more affordable than EVER to get to your door.

Get Chroma TODAY.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 2, 2016 07:53AM)
Wow, I believe Lloyd may have redeemed himself here. Looks amazing.
Message: Posted by: Karl M (Mar 2, 2016 08:01AM)
Looks briliant, definitely going to get it but now my bank account balance has been dimolished by blackpool so maybe later on in a few weeks
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 2, 2016 09:03AM)
Redeemed himself with Nicholas though .

This does look amazing very amazing . For 15 dollars it comes with such a visual change . That's one thing they did right , throw out unnessasary packaging !
Message: Posted by: alexlatorre (Mar 2, 2016 09:37AM)
Looks great. Might have to buy this
Message: Posted by: brandon90 (Mar 2, 2016 10:09AM)
Not bad.

Reasonable price too....

Pretty close to that add to cart button!
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 2, 2016 10:13AM)
Just add it to cart , don't even think about it

I don't care if it's workable ( probably is though ) but I just want to know the workings ! And 15 dollars is a very reasonable investment .
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 2, 2016 10:32AM)
I'm just very wary of advanced arts and crafts. I'm hoping someone will be able to back-brief us very soon. It's only the shipping costs stopping me ordering at this time.
Message: Posted by: Mejais (Mar 2, 2016 10:52AM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2016, pegasus wrote:
I'm just very wary of advanced arts and crafts. I'm hoping someone will be able to back-brief us very soon. It's only the shipping costs stopping me ordering at this time. [/quote]

Always the shipping costs! They are so high its insane
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 2, 2016 11:02AM)
That's USPS for you.
Message: Posted by: GeraintClarke (Mar 2, 2016 11:03AM)
We're aware of high international shipping rates (We're almost at a solution that will fix this forever), so we've priced this trick accordingly to take into account shipping costs that you'll have to pay if you're an international customer.
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Mar 2, 2016 11:33AM)
No flaps?! That looks totally crazy~

It would be nice if you guys could offer free shipping.
Message: Posted by: GeraintClarke (Mar 2, 2016 02:05PM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2016, Magic KL wrote:
No flaps?! That looks totally crazy~

It would be nice if you guys could offer free shipping. [/quote]

Absolutely no flaps.

We can't. At the moment are costs are high.... but we're working on bringing in flat pack rates and run free events on shipping throughout the year.

- G.
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Mar 2, 2016 02:37PM)
I hate to be "that guy," but I feel like I just wasted my money on this one. I'm usually a huge Nicholas Lawrence fan, but I do not like this one.


There are so many problems with this. The biggest problem is the audience can clearly see what is happening... Without saying too much, it is a very obvious flash. I tried to show to a few people and they immediately said, "I saw it ____" and they accurately said the method.

The second problem is with Lloyd's version. The angles are awful. They could very easily see two cards before the change takes place.

I'm very disappointed in this one. Don't waste your money!
Message: Posted by: Sean Giles (Mar 2, 2016 02:48PM)
I can only see one way of doing and I think it would be very problematic if that's the case. Maybe for stage or video only.
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 2, 2016 03:33PM)
MadisonH- Chroma works great for LIVE performance.. 100% ive used this countless times with great success, with any Magic prop or sleight there requires practice to master the effect..never attempt a trick the day you learn it, I feel that if anything that process is wrong. I urge you to practice the method and get comfortable & confident with a solid routine and TRY again.. I don't Release Material or tools that arent workable in the real world, sometimes it just depends on how much time you have dedicated to your craft.
Message: Posted by: stookie31 (Mar 2, 2016 03:46PM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2016, NicholasLawrenceMagic wrote:
MadisonH- Chroma works great for LIVE performance.. 100% ive used this countless times with great success, with any Magic prop or sleight there requires practice to master the effect..never attempt a trick the day you learn it, I feel that if anything that process is wrong. I urge you to practice the method and get comfortable & confident with a solid routine and TRY again.. I don't Release Material or tools that arent workable in the real world, sometimes it just depends on how much time you have dedicated to your craft. [/quote]

so well put, bravo and congrats on a killer release!
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 2, 2016 03:47PM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2016, MadisonH wrote:
I hate to be "that guy," but I feel like I just wasted my money on this one. I'm usually a huge Nicholas Lawrence fan, but I do not like this one.


There are so many problems with this. The biggest problem is the audience can clearly see what is happening... Without saying too much, it is a very obvious flash. I tried to show to a few people and they immediately said, "I saw it ____" and they accurately said the method.

The second problem is with Lloyd's version. The angles are awful. They could very easily see two cards before the change takes place.

I'm very disappointed in this one. Don't waste your money! [/quote]

Thank you Maddy. More money saved. It's unusual for you to leave a bad review so this must be dreadful.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Mar 2, 2016 04:07PM)
I have to say that the method is what I thought it was.. and I was also disappointed as I see a lot of problems with it.

Additionally, while I agree with what Nicholas said above in general, Maddy is one of the more respected members of this forum and he picks up stuff very quickly (just take a look at his Blomberg Laboratories videos he flooded out right after learning it in the book). I trust his judgement, whether he performed it same day or a week from now.
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Mar 2, 2016 04:07PM)
I don't have this, but since it was literally just released it seems improbable that anyone could have practiced this enough to make it look good in one day. One of the constant on threads I've noticed over the last few years I've been here is that an awful lot of people want self working, perfect angles and examinable. Very unrealistic, magic takes practice. If you want novelty gags then that's a different thing. Magic takes practice.

Again, I haven't bought this. It could be crap but a few hours of fiddling doesn't seem like a basis for reviewing.
Message: Posted by: brandon90 (Mar 2, 2016 04:11PM)
I agree with Slackerking...

The question of "How easy is this" has also been popping up an awful lot lately.
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Mar 2, 2016 04:33PM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2016, Slackerking wrote:
I don't have this, but since it was literally just released it seems improbable that anyone could have practiced this enough to make it look good in one day. One of the constant on threads I've noticed over the last few years I've been here is that an awful lot of people want self working, perfect angles and examinable. Very unrealistic, magic takes practice. If you want novelty gags then that's a different thing. Magic takes practice.

Again, I haven't bought this. It could be crap but a few hours of fiddling doesn't seem like a basis for reviewing. [/quote]


I agree with you 100%

If I find something worth performing, I wil practice for hours upon hours daily to perfect it before ever putting it in my show.

But each day between day 1 and my performance, I would perform it for a family member or good honest friend. To be sure I'm on the right track and not wasting my time.

I performed this piece for a family member and my girlfriend/assistant (who is always brutally honest.) They were both immediately able to see the secret.

In some cases, a method isn't strong enough to support itself regardless of practice.

So while I wholeheartedly support Nicholas Lawrence and think he is SUPER creative, this one just misses on so many levels. So much so, that I have no desire to practice it any further. When you're in the magic business literally your whole life, you can start to easily recognize what is practical and what isn't from the moment you see it.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Mar 2, 2016 04:38PM)
Don't you think its odd that E would say the difficulty level is "Easy" if the effect was very angle sensitive and required a lot of practice to look good in the real world? isn't listing something as "easy" a selling point, even if it in reality it may not be? hmmm...
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 2, 2016 05:00PM)
Oh well Madison ... Thanks for the review , I might have to reconsider ...

Maybe E only meant : " easy to perform for cameras ... "
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 2, 2016 05:11PM)
Difficulty: Easy

That to me states no practice required.

Give it up Slackerking, you wanted it to be workable but it isn't. Don't kid yourself and move on.
Message: Posted by: Scott Imler (Mar 2, 2016 05:12PM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2016, MadisonH wrote:
[quote]On Mar 2, 2016, Slackerking wrote:
I don't have this, but since it was literally just released it seems improbable that anyone could have practiced this enough to make it look good in one day. One of the constant on threads I've noticed over the last few years I've been here is that an awful lot of people want self working, perfect angles and examinable. Very unrealistic, magic takes practice. If you want novelty gags then that's a different thing. Magic takes practice.

Again, I haven't bought this. It could be crap but a few hours of fiddling doesn't seem like a basis for reviewing. [/quote]


I agree with you 100%

If I find something worth performing, I wil practice for hours upon hours daily to perfect it before ever putting it in my show.

But each day between day 1 and my performance, I would perform it for a family member or good honest friend. To be sure I'm on the right track and not wasting my time.

I performed this piece for a family member and my girlfriend/assistant (who is always brutally honest.) They were both immediately able to see the secret.

In some cases, a method isn't strong enough to support itself regardless of practice.

So while I wholeheartedly support Nicholas Lawrence and think he is SUPER creative, this one just misses on so many levels. So much so, that I have no desire to practice it any further. When you're in the magic business literally your whole life, you can start to easily recognize what is practical and what isn't from the moment you see it. [/quote]

Madison with out revealing methods or the gimmick what is it about it, in your opinion, that is tipping spectators. Is it angles the speed of gimmick or its motion or thickness....etc. None of these factors seem to be present in the trailer. Yes I know trailers always showcase an effect in its "best light" but your review and what we see on the trailer seem 180 degrees apart. Not questioning either you or the trailer but wanted you to elaborate on the levels it misses at (if you can) with out exposing anything.
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Mar 2, 2016 05:14PM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2016, Scott Imler wrote:
[quote]On Mar 2, 2016, MadisonH wrote:
[quote]On Mar 2, 2016, Slackerking wrote:
I don't have this, but since it was literally just released it seems improbable that anyone could have practiced this enough to make it look good in one day. One of the constant on threads I've noticed over the last few years I've been here is that an awful lot of people want self working, perfect angles and examinable. Very unrealistic, magic takes practice. If you want novelty gags then that's a different thing. Magic takes practice.

Again, I haven't bought this. It could be crap but a few hours of fiddling doesn't seem like a basis for reviewing. [/quote]


I agree with you 100%

If I find something worth performing, I wil practice for hours upon hours daily to perfect it before ever putting it in my show.

But each day between day 1 and my performance, I would perform it for a family member or good honest friend. To be sure I'm on the right track and not wasting my time.

I performed this piece for a family member and my girlfriend/assistant (who is always brutally honest.) They were both immediately able to see the secret.

In some cases, a method isn't strong enough to support itself regardless of practice.

So while I wholeheartedly support Nicholas Lawrence and think he is SUPER creative, this one just misses on so many levels. So much so, that I have no desire to practice it any further. When you're in the magic business literally your whole life, you can start to easily recognize what is practical and what isn't from the moment you see it. [/quote]

Madison with out revealing methods or the gimmick what is it about it, in your opinion, that is tipping spectators. Is it angles the speed of gimmick or its motion or thickness....etc. None of these factors seem to be present in the trailer. Yes I know trailers always showcase an effect in its "best light" but your review and what we see on the trailer seem 180 degrees apart. Not questioning either you or the trailer but wanted you to elaborate on the levels it misses at (if you can) with out exposing anything. [/quote]


Yes to all of your questions :)
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 2, 2016 05:15PM)
Tunehv- Ive personally fooled working magicians LIVE with Chroma & concider the working to be 'easy and practial to say the least but even an "easy" trick is not technically Easy... Is it ? Its magic, there is a reason only 1% of the earths population chooses magic as there personal hobby or profession. Im quite confident using Chroma & not bothered by those who cant... Every magic product is not for everyone, see me at a convention & ill show you how a professional can take a simple tool or system and apply it to a real world situation easily & make it look like real world Workable magic, simply because it is.
I appreciate the feedback & respect your opinions, as well ill always take criticism and apply it to my future projects.
Message: Posted by: magic_tony (Mar 2, 2016 05:23PM)
There is almost nothing more to practice with this other than flicking your wrist.
Even in the video demo you can see flashes so in real life it is worse. Low lighting helps.

Cool for the camera though, especially if the card moves just out of shot during the change.

More ellusionist hype as to be expected, but their claims are true:

- No flaps > technically true
- No folds > true
- No creases > true
- Use ANY cards, even Madison Blanks > true

Even Madison blanks eh? - well, if you can use those cards then it must be amazing! Although you would need to adopt a 'tough guy' low pitch voice and take yourself rather seriously.
Message: Posted by: christopherTheConjurer (Mar 2, 2016 05:32PM)
As a singular effect this looks nice and if used for a promo video would certainly add some wow. I think if added to a routine in the right way, this could add polish. but the really skill in a trick like this is in audience management. Angles shouldn't be a problem to anyone with good audience management skills. If you hold up the card and say "look" your asking to be court but if you slide it in to a routine in the right way your going to get something your audience will be talking about.
Message: Posted by: WeiserSide1 (Mar 2, 2016 05:43PM)
I am privy to the workings of this and I just made one up with the stuff I have around...super easy to make! Love it!
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Mar 2, 2016 06:13PM)
Well I'm a huge fan of Nicholas' work, so I'm not going to argue further as the effect's limitations just arent for me. I've shared my thoughts and will move on and eagerly look forward to his next release.
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Mar 2, 2016 06:28PM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2016, christopherTheConjurer wrote:
As a singular effect this looks nice and if used for a promo video would certainly add some wow. I think if added to a routine in the right way, this could add polish. but the really skill in a trick like this is in audience management. Angles shouldn't be a problem to anyone with good audience management skills. If you hold up the card and say "look" your asking to be court but if you slide it in to a routine in the right way your going to get something your audience will be talking about. [/quote]


I think people try to justify way too many problems with the "audience management" answer. The angles are too sensitive. It's not the angles in worried about. It's the undeniable flash of color that can be seen clear as day by the spectators.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 2, 2016 06:37PM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2016, christopherTheConjurer wrote:
As a singular effect this looks nice and if used for a promo video would certainly add some wow. I think if added to a routine in the right way, this could add polish. but the really skill in a trick like this is in audience management. Angles shouldn't be a problem to anyone with good audience management skills. If you hold up the card and say "look" your asking to be court but if you slide it in to a routine in the right way your going to get something your audience will be talking about. [/quote]

Oh dear, oh dear. Lol. "Ok, audience, on the count of 3 I want you to all close your eyes for 1 second."

:rotf:
Message: Posted by: Maxy (Mar 2, 2016 10:24PM)
I think waving hand while change is happenning will cover any possible flash.
IMHO for this price it is a good deal.
I didn't buy yet it but I will.
Message: Posted by: tophatter (Mar 3, 2016 01:37AM)
Your better off with a DB card !
Message: Posted by: Stucky (Mar 3, 2016 02:39AM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2016, NicholasLawrenceMagic wrote:
Tunehv- Ive personally fooled working magicians LIVE with Chroma[/quote]

Well quit bugging them while they are working so they can pay more attention. Sheesh. :)

[quote]see me at a convention & ill show you how a professional can take a simple tool or system and apply it to a real world situation easily & make it look like real world Workable magic, simply because it is.[/quote]

Well aren't you rather chuffed with yourself. It makes it sound like you're insulting the rest of us who might be beneath a "pro" like yourself.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 3, 2016 04:17AM)
[quote]On Mar 2, 2016, Maxy wrote:
I think waving hand while change is happenning will cover any possible flash.
IMHO for this price it is a good deal.
I didn't buy yet it but I will. [/quote]

Listen to Tophatter.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Mar 3, 2016 07:10AM)
What is the difference between this and the Rob Bromley Changing Card put out by Bob Swadling?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdtw2JMECac
Message: Posted by: Magic McKing (Mar 3, 2016 07:37AM)
After putting hours of practice in it, I can honestly say it looks great... on camera. I don't usually complain about things under $20, but I wish I didn't toss $15 away if I didn't have to. The 'secret' is just too obvious and doesn't work live. There's a reason why in the trailer it was always partially out of frame during a critical moment. Be warned.. save your money folks..
Message: Posted by: RNK (Mar 3, 2016 07:50AM)
Well at least this time Ellusionist first didn't take everybody's money with a pre-order. Baby steps......
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 3, 2016 08:34AM)
[quote]On Mar 3, 2016, Jon Allen wrote:
What is the difference between this and the Rob Bromley Changing Card put out by Bob Swadling?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdtw2JMECac [/quote]

Good point John. Will be interesting to see Rasmus' version, hopefully soon.
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (Mar 3, 2016 08:46AM)
[quote]On Mar 3, 2016, Magic McKing wrote:
After putting hours of practice in it, I can honestly say it looks great... on camera. I don't usually complain about things under $20, but I wish I didn't toss $15 away if I didn't have to. The 'secret' is just too obvious and doesn't work live. There's a reason why in the trailer it was always partially out of frame during a critical moment. Be warned.. save your money folks.. [/quote]

Noooooooooooooooooo, E selling stuff only looking good on camera ??? You gotta be kidding me ! It's not like they've put out the biggest trash product for years called "Change" by Mr. Barnes..

People never learn.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Mar 3, 2016 07:34PM)
[quote]On Mar 3, 2016, Jon Allen wrote:
What is the difference between this and the Rob Bromley Changing Card put out by Bob Swadling?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdtw2JMECac [/quote]

There is no difference. Lloyd's version of the gimmick is the same... Nicholas has a slight variation, but still pretty much the same method.

That was part of my disappointment as this is nothing new.
Message: Posted by: Jon Allen (Mar 4, 2016 02:23AM)
So if there is no difference in the gimmick or the method, why is Rob Bromley's Changing Card being sold as a different product?

If anyone involved with its release can comment that would be decent.

Also, if you could take the time as well while you're commenting, why is it described as using "No flaps" when it absolutely 100% does use a flap?
Message: Posted by: Stucky (Mar 4, 2016 05:27AM)
[quote]On Mar 3, 2016, Jon Allen wrote:
What is the difference between this and the Rob Bromley Changing Card put out by Bob Swadling?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdtw2JMECac [/quote]

Looks like they don't throw it. Hence it's totally new right?
Message: Posted by: StevenHimmel (Mar 4, 2016 08:28AM)
Alrighty everyone...here it goes...
I have received my copy of Chroma. I put it together in just a minute. I played around with it. And honestly, I think this is good. Not great. But very good. It is definitely knacky and will take a fair amount of practice to get it down smoothly. Nicholas is a worker. I have supported him from the beginning and I know that everything he creates is workable in the real world.
I'll be honest, this gimmick is not necessarily a new idea. It's just reworked to make it simpler and less expensive. You may have seen the Boomerang card change a number of years ago. It was really cool. But it used elastic and would break and couldn't be replaced and was kind of expensive. This an awesome alternative. There are two different gimmick designs, which I really like. I could make one on the fly if I needed to. There have been other versions out there. This is just some more ideas on the concept. I think this version is more accessible for everyone. I think for the price it is definitely worth it. You pay $15 for knowledge you will have for the rest of your life. This is a very cool quick color change and is extremely practical. I have been a little disappointed in a number of Ellusionists releases over the past couple of years. This is not a disappointment. I'm going to use this. I really think a lot of you will like it and use it as well.
Message: Posted by: RNK (Mar 4, 2016 08:37AM)
[quote]On Mar 4, 2016, StevenHimmel wrote:
Alrighty everyone...here it goes...
I have received my copy of Chroma. I put it together in just a minute. I played around with it. And honestly, I think this is good. Not great. But very good. It is definitely knacky and will take a fair amount of practice to get it down smoothly. Nicholas is a worker. I have supported him from the beginning and I know that everything he creates is workable in the real world.
I'll be honest, this gimmick is not necessarily a new idea. It's just reworked to make it simpler and less expensive. You may have seen the Boomerang card change a number of years ago. It was really cool. But it used elastic and would break and couldn't be replaced and was kind of expensive. This an awesome alternative. There are two different gimmick designs, which I really like. I could make one on the fly if I needed to. There have been other versions out there. This is just some more ideas on the concept. I think this version is more accessible for everyone. I think for the price it is definitely worth it. You pay $15 for knowledge you will have for the rest of your life. This is a very cool quick color change and is extremely practical. I have been a little disappointed in a number of Ellusionists releases over the past couple of years. This is not a disappointment. I'm going to use this. I really think a lot of you will like it and use it as well. [/quote]

Hmmm..... Very interesting. A good review from a working magician. For $15.00 might be worth it.
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 4, 2016 09:32AM)
We were not Aware of Rob Bremley's creation taught Bob Swadling but we were aware that similar things have existed like hold-outs & non-visual changes but from what I had known its not available any longer. What lloyd & Myslef have really done here is found an old idea and taken it further by not only chnages the face of a card which is the only application ive been able to find in my research but what we are doing is changing both sides which I personally have never seen before jamming with Lloyd. He also took it even further by conjuring up the Dual Printing of a completely blank playing card, which in my opinion is just insane.. I understand this isn't an amazingly brand new concept but we have both put work into teaching anyone interested in this re-visited concept which I feel we have greatly improved upon aswell included our own original ideas.
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Mar 4, 2016 09:45AM)
[quote]On Mar 4, 2016, StevenHimmel wrote:
Alrighty everyone...here it goes...
I have received my copy of Chroma. I put it together in just a minute. I played around with it. And honestly, I think this is good. Not great. But very good. It is definitely knacky and will take a fair amount of practice to get it down smoothly. Nicholas is a worker. I have supported him from the beginning and I know that everything he creates is workable in the real world.
I'll be honest, this gimmick is not necessarily a new idea. It's just reworked to make it simpler and less expensive. You may have seen the Boomerang card change a number of years ago. It was really cool. But it used elastic and would break and couldn't be replaced and was kind of expensive. This an awesome alternative. There are two different gimmick designs, which I really like. I could make one on the fly if I needed to. There have been other versions out there. This is just some more ideas on the concept. I think this version is more accessible for everyone. I think for the price it is definitely worth it. You pay $15 for knowledge you will have for the rest of your life. This is a very cool quick color change and is extremely practical. I have been a little disappointed in a number of Ellusionists releases over the past couple of years. This is not a disappointment. I'm going to use this. I really think a lot of you will like it and use it as well. [/quote]

Let us know how it goes for real people!
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Mar 4, 2016 09:55AM)
Rob Bromley still sells his Credit Card Change, which is essentially the Changing Card applied to a Credit Card to Playing Card...

http://www.alakazam.co.uk/product-Credit-Card-Change.html

To say that Chroma is unique because both sides change.... well in all fairness that's essentially what the Credit Card Change is.
Message: Posted by: Rus ANDREWS (Mar 4, 2016 11:36AM)
Hi All

Ok so I have had sometime to play with Chroma, many will know that this is not my type of thing as I'm more known more mentalism, but after seeing Chroma it had me thinking how I would use something like this.... PHOTO

I made up some photos and created a version where by a thought of person would vanish from a group photo, this works really well and looks amazing to the spectator to see the one person they named in the picture suddenly vanish.

Top job LLoyd and Nicholas

All the best

R
Message: Posted by: HoDinhYu (Mar 4, 2016 12:55PM)
This is definitely a better release from E considered I bought the previous release from Lloyd. That one I didn't even want to keep in my drawer. But this is NOT workable at all. After hours of practicing this 'new' handling, I can confirm that it looks way better on camera than live. It's painfully obvious to see this in person. I have Rob Swadling's original version. The original handling made sense and it's a real working piece. I feel this is a bad rip off. Same gimmick, same principle, nothing new at stake. If you want something for your webcam, get this. If you want something you can do live, pick up the original Bob Swadling-Changing Cards.
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Mar 4, 2016 02:32PM)
Please stop saying things aren't workable when other people have said they are. Say it's not workable for you. One of the problems with reviews is people act like their experience is everyone's experience. It's very interesting how many times on here well known working magicians like something and give it thumbs up while unknown magi and hobbyists complain about it not being usable. Same thing is happening in the Never There thread right now. They're usable if you want to take the time to make them usable.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 4, 2016 02:53PM)
[quote]On Mar 4, 2016, HoDinhYu wrote:
This is definitely a better release from E considered I bought the previous release from Lloyd. That one I didn't even want to keep in my drawer. But this is NOT workable at all. After hours of practicing this 'new' handling, I can confirm that it looks way better on camera than live. It's painfully obvious to see this in person. I have Rob Swadling's original version. The original handling made sense and it's a real working piece. I feel this is a bad rip off. Same gimmick, same principle, nothing new at stake. If you want something for your webcam, get this. If you want something you can do live, pick up the original Bob Swadling-Changing Cards. [/quote]

Thanks. I appreciate your honesty. Another unsatisfied customer. However, I'm going to purchase because it might work for me. :rotf:
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 4, 2016 03:10PM)
Seems like the main issue mostly surrounds the need to - at least in a live performance - misdirect audience attention away from the gimmick for a moment while it does its thing, but was presented on the trailer as a gimmick that needed no misdirection.

If the gimmick had been presented as below (Swadling's effect), would there have been a problem?

[youtube]Bdtw2JMECac[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Mar 4, 2016 04:15PM)
[quote]On Mar 4, 2016, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Mar 4, 2016, HoDinhYu wrote:
This is definitely a better release from E considered I bought the previous release from Lloyd. That one I didn't even want to keep in my drawer. But this is NOT workable at all. After hours of practicing this 'new' handling, I can confirm that it looks way better on camera than live. It's painfully obvious to see this in person. I have Rob Swadling's original version. The original handling made sense and it's a real working piece. I feel this is a bad rip off. Same gimmick, same principle, nothing new at stake. If you want something for your webcam, get this. If you want something you can do live, pick up the original Bob Swadling-Changing Cards. [/quote]

Thanks. I appreciate your honesty. Another unsatisfied customer. However, I'm going to purchase because it might work for me. :rotf: [/quote]

While I appreciate the sarcasm, you're actually making my point. I went back and counted up the positive and negative reviews (it's a little hard to tell who actually has it and who's speculating). Ends up 4 negative, 1 middle, and 3 positive. 2 of the positive reviews are from very well known and respected pros. It's possible the negatives are as well, but I don't know their names.

My point is, if I listened to everyone's negative opinion I'd have missed dozens of great tricks along the way. Just as I've been led astray by some positive reviews which turned out to be unworkable for me. It's more whether an effect fits my needs.

As to this review, I'm confused. On one hand the complaint is that the new gimmick is exactly the same as Swadlings gimmick but somehow this one is unworkable live but the original is great?. Either it's the same gimmick, meaning it would work the same as the original gimmick or it's different and therefore not the same. Can't have it both ways.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 4, 2016 04:23PM)
Why don't you buy it then SK? Jeez.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Mar 4, 2016 04:24PM)
Lloyds version is same as Swadlings. His handlings make it difficult not to flash, if you did it as Swadling teaches, with the toss, it works.

Nicholas' version is a bit different but relies on the same core principle- his is a little different than Sawdling's as the toss handling wouldn't work with his.
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Mar 4, 2016 05:05PM)
[quote]On Mar 4, 2016, pegasus wrote:
Why don't you buy it then SK? Jeez. [/quote]

Lol I put it in my cart but haven't for two reasons. One is I don't really like to buy from Ellusionist, I prefer dealing with Penguin and getting free shipping so unless I can't live without I rarely pull the trigger. Second, I used to buy everything and I've bought an awful lot of gimmicked cards over the past few years and I find I don't actually use most of them. I'm learning to be more selective in buying effects I'll actually use. ;)
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 4, 2016 06:31PM)
Do yourself a favour and go with the majority here. Maddy's review was the show stopper for me. He knows his stuff.
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Mar 4, 2016 08:37PM)
[quote]On Mar 4, 2016, Slackerking wrote:
Please stop saying things aren't workable when other people have said they are. Say it's not workable for you. One of the problems with reviews is people act like their experience is everyone's experience. It's very interesting how many times on here well known working magicians like something and give it thumbs up while unknown magi and hobbyists complain about it not being usable. Same thing is happening in the Never There thread right now. They're usable if you want to take the time to make them usable. [/quote]


I understand your statement. And in most cases, I agree with you 100%!

However, in this case, no amount of practice will get rid of the flash. You absolutely cannot do it as presented live. If you do, I promise your audience will know exactly what happened. They may be too kind to tell you, but they'll walk away saying, "did you see that card ___ real fast?"
Message: Posted by: HoDinhYu (Mar 4, 2016 09:26PM)
I agree with what Slackerking has to say. But I agree with MadisonH in this case. This is one of those camera thing that's just not workable without misdirection. And that's not why I bought the trick.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 4, 2016 10:32PM)
Interesting. It certainly sounds useable...but people looking directly at it as the 'change' occurs, as presented in the Ellusionist video, will see too much. Pity it was presented as otherwise. In this case, fortunately - and assuming a quality made gaff - it can still be a very workable item. Doesn't reflect well on Ellusionist, though.

Customer: It doesn't work deceptively in a live situation as you, yourself, performed it in the demo.

Ellusionist: What are you complaining about? It's still a good trick! Just try it differently from the video...


:snail:
Message: Posted by: Stucky (Mar 5, 2016 01:08AM)
[quote]Nicholas is a worker. [/quote]

Nicholas, where do you work at? I wanna come see you in action.
Message: Posted by: Paul S Wingham (Mar 5, 2016 01:43AM)
[quote]On Mar 4, 2016, Slackerking wrote:
Please stop saying things aren't workable when other people have said they are. Say it's not workable for you. One of the problems with reviews is people act like their experience is everyone's experience. It's very interesting how many times on here well known working magicians like something and give it thumbs up while unknown magi and hobbyists complain about it not being usable. Same thing is happening in the Never There thread right now. They're usable if you want to take the time to make them usable. [/quote]

There are a lot of "back scratchers" in magic. You know; you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. I'd prefer to hear the views of normal people with nothing to lose
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Mar 5, 2016 03:45AM)
[quote]On Mar 4, 2016, Slackerking wrote:
Please stop saying things aren't workable when other people have said they are. Say it's not workable for you. One of the problems with reviews is people act like their experience is everyone's experience. It's very interesting how many times on here well known working magicians like something and give it thumbs up while unknown magi and hobbyists complain about it not being usable. Same thing is happening in the Never There thread right now. They're usable if you want to take the time to make them usable. [/quote]

There has always been blatant backslapping in magic, it's not unusual, you see famous authors also endorsing books that I find awful. So I wouldn't necessarily just expect that, because a pro says it's okay , it is.

I tend to have a mental list of people who I think talk sense on here and, if I can't figure out for myself whether it's a good in, I'll see what they think. But there's an awful lot of people who are on my "ignore at all costs" list. Names not included to protect the guilty :)
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Mar 6, 2016 12:16AM)
So I sat down with this again tonight, figured I'd try to get my moneys worth. I'm very familiar with making gimmicks with the material used here, so I made some tweaks and then actually made a hybrid of Nicholas and Lloyd's gimmicks and that seems to work much better for me. I havent had a chance to try it out on anyone yet, but its not flashing when playing around with it in front of the mirror now. With that said, the gimmick/method is still not new at all, I had to make my own tweaks to improve upon what they taught and the amount of material they give you is very minimal and the shipping cost is very high for what arrives in the mail.... so I still cant say I recommend this, but at least it appears I can get away with performing it now if I choose to.
Message: Posted by: Paul Hughes (Mar 6, 2016 06:23AM)
This is all well and good - but this IS Bob Swadling's card change as made by Rob Bromley - Bob has been selling these since the 80's when I first bought a bunch of them - every variation in the video was and still is available - front changes, back changes, front and back changes, card to credit card and vice versa. The mechanism is the same. Really guys, certainly in the UK this is a really, really well known card change effect.

I have no reason to believe that it isn't simply a reinvention, great minds and all that (I love Nicholas' work) - but c'mon - I think Ellusionist needs to talk to Bob and Rob about this.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Mar 6, 2016 07:59AM)
[quote]On Mar 6, 2016, Paul Hughes wrote:
This is all well and good - but this IS Bob Swadling's card change as made by Rob Bromley - Bob has been selling these since the 80's when I first bought a bunch of them - every variation in the video was and still is available - front changes, back changes, front and back changes, card to credit card and vice versa. The mechanism is the same. Really guys, certainly in the UK this is a really, really well known card change effect.

I have no reason to believe that it isn't simply a reinvention, great minds and all that (I love Nicholas' work) - but c'mon - I think Ellusionist needs to talk to Bob and Rob about this. [/quote]

The 'inventors' of this effect are also both from the UK. Funny that.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 6, 2016 12:27PM)
Unless I'm mistaken, Nicholas Lawrence is from the USA (his dialect sounds it, anyway :) ).
Message: Posted by: Paul Hughes (Mar 6, 2016 12:47PM)
I guess my point is, no matter where anyone lives (magic is international after all), even with the best intentions its easy to re-invent the wheel and even with the best will in the world someone's research doesn't always pin point the original creators, but, as it has now been pointed out that this effect is at least 40 years old and Bob and Rob have been selling it from at least the 80's - its probably best for Ellusionist to reach out and do the right thing.

Don't you think?
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Mar 6, 2016 02:21PM)
Tried to toss chroma up to facilitate the change.

It didn't worked. The card fluttered around like a butterfly with a broken wing.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 6, 2016 04:19PM)
Well, then... "Butterfly Card"!
Message: Posted by: AriTheMan (Mar 16, 2016 07:45PM)
Hey, guys. I just wanted to give a totally honest review for CHROMA by Lloyd Barnes and Nicholas Lawrence. I was very excited when I first saw the trailer because I love all of Nick and Lloyd's work and I knew that anything they worked on together would be great. So, when I purchased it and watched the whole download I was not disappointed at all as many other people have been saying. There are two different versions of the gimmick (Lloyd's and Nick's) and I have to say that for me personally, Nick's is more practical for real life. Both gimmicks are medium difficulty to make for a beginner "gimmick-maker" and a piece of cake for anybody who has made similar cards gimmicks. Some of the supplies come in the mail but if you want to make other gimmicks you have to have your own very simplistic supplies. (Let's clear something up -- the ad copy can be misunderstood. It says no flaps and that is true if you are talking about the regular Mark Mason Blink card with a f**d and e*****c. But, there is a different type of flap type thing which is what Nick and Lloyd have created.) I have been practicing this for a few days and have gotten it down pretty good (performance link with a little touch I added - http://youtu.be/nijkDU0cjI4 ) but not perfect yet. Overall, this is worth the $14.99 + shipping and I would reccomend this to anybody who wants something to build, practice and then perform something very visual. Thanks for creating this Nick and Lloyd!

- Ari
Message: Posted by: Infographicmagicreviews (Mar 16, 2016 09:00PM)
Here's a honest review. I found it to be a 100% rip off of an item I already own after my purchase. It's bad taste to rip off customers like that. If they work with the real creator and mention anything in the ad I wouldn't have spent the money on something I already own. This is ridiculous and unethical in my book. This is Bob Swadling's color changing card. I am surprised no one really call them out?!
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 16, 2016 09:13PM)
[quote]On Mar 16, 2016, Infographicmagicreviews wrote:
Here's a honest review. I found it to be a 100% rip off of an item I already own after my purchase. It's bad taste to rip off customers like that. If they work with the real creator and mention anything in the ad I wouldn't have spent the money on something I already own. This is ridiculous and unethical in my book. This is Bob Swadling's color changing card. I am surprised no one really call them out?! [/quote]

Feel better?
Message: Posted by: Elliot Nicklas (Mar 16, 2016 09:42PM)
What's your problem Infographic? Nicholas is the most creative guy of our time. He can take any old trick that no one knows about and turn it into gold. The trick looks so much better in his hand. Bob Swadling should feel honored and happy about it!!
Message: Posted by: Matthew Crabtree (Mar 16, 2016 09:49PM)
[quote]On Mar 16, 2016, AriTheMan wrote:
Thanks for creating this Nick and Lloyd!

- Ari [/quote]

Ari see the other post where people have pointed out that it is an effect by Bob Swadling

[quote]On Mar 16, 2016, Infographicmagicreviews wrote:
Here's a honest review. I found it to be a 100% rip off of an item I already own after my purchase. It's bad taste to rip off customers like that. If they work with the real creator and mention anything in the ad I wouldn't have spent the money on something I already own. This is ridiculous and unethical in my book. This is Bob Swadling's color changing card. I am surprised no one really call them out?! [/quote]

They have been called out for it in this thread a few times.

[quote]On Mar 16, 2016, Elliot Nicklas wrote:
What's your problem Infographic? Nicholas is the most creative guy of our time. He can take any old trick that no one knows about and turn it into gold. The trick looks so much better in his hand. Bob Swadling should feel honored and happy about it!! [/quote]

WE knew about it and many of us had it. No Bob should now feel honored by it. Also Bob's is still being sold.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 16, 2016 09:57PM)
[quote]On Mar 16, 2016, Elliot Nicklas wrote:
What's your problem Infographic? Nicholas is the most creative guy of our time. He can take any old trick that no one knows about and turn it into gold. The trick looks so much better in his hand. Bob Swadling should feel honored and happy about it!! [/quote]

Elliot, Nicholas Lawrence is an excellent creator, but he has a way to go before his achievements can be fairly compared to Bob Swadling. Bob has been at the top - creating and performing - for many, many years. Nicholas may indeed achieve that, or even greater (I know of no one who doubts his potential), but only time and output will earn him that.
Message: Posted by: Matthew Crabtree (Mar 16, 2016 10:02PM)
Sorry meant Bob should NOT feel honored
Message: Posted by: Elliot Nicklas (Mar 16, 2016 10:09PM)
Chessmann there's no way you are comparing Nicholas Lawrence and Bob Swadling. One is the top creator of our time. Where has Bob been while Nicholas is creating all these amazing stuff?
Message: Posted by: Matthew Crabtree (Mar 16, 2016 10:32PM)
[quote]On Mar 16, 2016, Elliot Nicklas wrote:
Chessmann there's no way you are comparing Nicholas Lawrence and Bob Swadling. One is the top creator of our time. Where has Bob been while Nicholas is creating all these amazing stuff? [/quote]

Where has Bob been? He has been creating magic for the last 50 years. Stuff like Bob's Box, Blindspot, Double Deception Deluxe, Know it all wallet. I think Magic Moments came out in 2008. Then there is all of work with coins that people love. So Where had Bob been? Bob has been busy.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 16, 2016 10:33PM)
Elliot, I certainly am! Of course, I am aware of both Nicholas *and* Bob, while it seems pretty clear that you are quite unaware of Bob Swadling's achievements. Where is Bob? Still working, and also likely enjoying the fruit of a very successful lifetime in magic. Had you lived in the 70's, I get the feeling you would be saying, "Howard Thurston? Where has HE been while Mark Wilson is amazing the world?"

Part of me thinks you can't be serious, and I'm falling victim to a troll :) Time will tell, I suppose!
Message: Posted by: Matthew Crabtree (Mar 16, 2016 10:37PM)
[quote]On Mar 16, 2016, Chessmann wrote:
Part of me thinks you can't be serious, and I'm falling victim to a troll :) Time will tell, I suppose! [/quote]


I'm getting the same feeling.
Message: Posted by: Magic McKing (Mar 16, 2016 11:19PM)
Whoa... can't believe what I just read here. People serious about this? The sense of right and wrong now is indeed very different than back in the days..
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Mar 17, 2016 04:38AM)
Pretty ironic that Nicholas lawrence had the whole fiasco with Sansminds because they were being unethical, yet he has tried to release tricks which Sansminds had to rights to with Shin Lim, ripped off Bob Swadling and also 'borrowed' Sansminds 'performance restrictions and product information' chart on the trailer for the release of his new trick: symbolized.
Message: Posted by: Chad Gill (Mar 17, 2016 05:40AM)
[quote]On Mar 16, 2016, NicholasLawrenceMagic wrote:
[quote]On Mar 16, 2016, Infographicmagicreviews wrote:
Here's a honest review. I found it to be a 100% rip off of an item I already own after my purchase. It's bad taste to rip off customers like that. If they work with the real creator and mention anything in the ad I wouldn't have spent the money on something I already own. This is ridiculous and unethical in my book. This is Bob Swadling's color changing card. I am surprised no one really call them out?! [/quote]

Feel better? [/quote]


It usually doesn't take too long before one shows his true color. Just saying..
Message: Posted by: HusssKarson (Mar 17, 2016 05:53AM)
That is pretty ironic Fatgumbo. It was a huge thing back then. Videos crying for help, crowd funding campaign... Smart fellow. Victim well played.
Message: Posted by: AriTheMan (Mar 17, 2016 03:11PM)
As a young magician, I don't want to be involved in any arguments. I did not know that Bob had crated something similar to this many years ago and I am sure that Nick did not know either. Also, Fatgumbo, Nick was using the performance restrictions and product description chart before sansminds. It was used in the first video on Sensor-Magic (If I'm correct it should be his effect Download) and then a few weeks later Sansminds started using it in their products. Please let me know if I am incorrect as I know that all of you are very knowledgeable.

- Ari
Message: Posted by: AriTheMan (Mar 17, 2016 05:18PM)
[quote]On Mar 17, 2016, AriTheMan wrote:
As a young magician, I don't want to be involved in any arguments. I did not know that Bob had crated something similar to this many years ago and I am sure that Nick did not know either. Also, Fatgumbo, Nick was using the performance restrictions and product description chart before sansminds. It was used in the first video on Sensor-Magic (If I'm correct it should be his effect Download) and then a few weeks later Sansminds started using it in their products. Please let me know if I am incorrect as I know that all of you are very knowledgeable.

- Ari [/quote]

Ok. So I was wrong. Nick actually did do it after Sansminds, but a lot of companies are probably going to start doing something similar to that. I don't think there's anything wrong with it? If you want customers to know specifications about your product it doesn't matter how you tell them.

- Ari
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Mar 17, 2016 07:16PM)
[quote]On Mar 17, 2016, AriTheMan wrote:
[quote]On Mar 17, 2016, AriTheMan wrote:
As a young magician, I don't want to be involved in any arguments. I did not know that Bob had crated something similar to this many years ago and I am sure that Nick did not know either. Also, Fatgumbo, Nick was using the performance restrictions and product description chart before sansminds. It was used in the first video on Sensor-Magic (If I'm correct it should be his effect Download) and then a few weeks later Sansminds started using it in their products. Please let me know if I am incorrect as I know that all of you are very knowledgeable.

- Ari [/quote]

Ok. So I was wrong. Nick actually did do it after Sansminds, but a lot of companies are probably going to start doing something similar to that. I don't think there's anything wrong with it? If you want customers to know specifications about your product it doesn't matter how you tell them.

- Ari [/quote]

Yes agreed. The information chart is always a good idea and more people should do it. However, that's not my main point. Also, most people have forgotten this but Nicholas ripped off a $2 trick move for move off the wire ! And released it as his pound transpo.

And now he's ripped off the Visible changing card. No credit was given and it seems no action has been taken to rectify this situation.
Message: Posted by: Magic McKing (Mar 18, 2016 12:08AM)
I remember the guy from the wire making his posts here. Poor guy. He was ignored and no action was taken to rectify the situation from Nicholas.

AriTheMan I don't think not knowing justifies ripping people off. It's the creator's responsibility to do his research before releasing a product. Many of us know or own Bob's effect here. As an older fellow here, I think it's important to pass this down to young magicians like you. No one here could say he knows everything and people make mistakes sometimes. It's ok to make mistakes. Just make things right. If you release a trick someone else already did due to lack of research. just apologize and take it down. If you continues to sell it, it's a solid rip off. There's no reason you can't take it down. Like Fatgumbo said Nicholas was busted last time already. He ignored the guy and kept on selling other people's work. And now this. Time and time again, that's unethical. If people keep on getting away with this, our art will die. We'll lose the two most important things being an artist - ethic and originality. Just my two cents.
Message: Posted by: HusssKarson (Mar 18, 2016 12:29AM)
That's very well said. I think that's exactly what the new comers in our art needs to learn. Bravo for saying it.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 18, 2016 02:29AM)
[quote]On Mar 18, 2016, Magic McKing wrote:
I remember the guy from the wire making his posts here. Poor guy. He was ignored and no action was taken to rectify the situation from Nicholas.

AriTheMan I don't think not knowing justifies ripping people off. It's the creator's responsibility to do his research before releasing a product. Many of us know or own Bob's effect here. As an older fellow here, I think it's important to pass this down to young magicians like you. No one here could say he knows everything and people make mistakes sometimes. It's ok to make mistakes. Just make things right. If you release a trick someone else already did due to lack of research. just apologize and take it down. If you continues to sell it, it's a solid rip off. There's no reason you can't take it down. Like Fatgumbo said Nicholas was busted last time already. He ignored the guy and kept on selling other people's work. And now this. Time and time again, that's unethical. If people keep on getting away with this, our art will die. We'll lose the two most important things being an artist - ethic and originality. Just my two cents. [/quote]

I fully agree with you .

But on a side note , isn't SM better than Nicholas in the case of the froggy release ? At least they ran over all their frogs and DVDs as a public apology .

Im referring to Prince in Disguise in case anyone is wondering what the frog is .

I'm never a fan of SM , but I'm just hoping Nicholas should do maybe better ... But ...
Message: Posted by: selectedmagic (Mar 18, 2016 03:07AM)
Ran over? What's that about?
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Mar 18, 2016 03:12AM)
[quote]On Mar 18, 2016, selectedmagic wrote:
Ran over? What's that about? [/quote]

Sansminds released an effect called ' prince in disguise' and it was found to be very similar to a Michael close's frog prince effect. They ran over all the DVDS they had in their warehouse in a car , destroying them.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 18, 2016 03:49AM)
[quote]On Mar 18, 2016, selectedmagic wrote:
Ran over? What's that about? [/quote]

Never mind ... You don't have to know ...

The only thing SM did right is probably this one .
Message: Posted by: HoDinhYu (Mar 18, 2016 07:21AM)
Googled it up and found this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk-HhgyiW1s
That's amazing! Respect to SansMind
Message: Posted by: selectedmagic (Mar 18, 2016 07:32AM)
Wow respect! It's sad to see Nicholas posting on the other threads now while completely ignoring the posts about him ripping Bob Swadling and Rob Bromley off here. Having watched the videos he made and sent around before, it's so ironic. Now I feel bad for falling for his stories and bashed SM.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 18, 2016 07:39AM)
[quote]On Mar 18, 2016, selectedmagic wrote:
Wow respect! It's sad to see Nicholas posting on the other threads now while completely ignoring the posts about him ripping Bob Swadling and Rob Bromley off here. Having watched the videos he made and sent around before, it's so ironic. Now I feel bad for falling for his stories and bashed SM. [/quote]

SM should still be bashed for their TV rights statement and those trailers though ...

But for their ethics part , they've probably gone the furthest for correcting their wrongs .
Message: Posted by: Matthew Crabtree (Mar 18, 2016 08:28AM)
[quote]On Mar 17, 2016, AriTheMan wrote:
I did not know that Bob had crated something similar to this many years ago and I am sure that Nick did not know either.
- Ari [/quote]
All it takes is a bit of research and asking the other magicians. I had something I had been doing for close to 20 years. It was something that I came up with as a work around for not owning a gimmick. A few years ago I showed it to someone and they loved it and said that is something I could release. THen told me to contact a few people. With in a day the librarian at the Magic Castle found out that it was published by someone six months after I first started doing it in the 90's They had been doing it since the 80's though I didn't know who they were or seen them work. So There is a chance that Nicholas didn't know, but there is no way he did proper research to find out if there was something else just like it already out there.


[quote]On Mar 18, 2016, selectedmagic wrote:
Wow respect! It's sad to see Nicholas posting on the other threads now while completely ignoring the posts about him ripping Bob Swadling and Rob Bromley off here. Having watched the videos he made and sent around before, it's so ironic. Now I feel bad for falling for his stories and bashed SM. [/quote]

Had SansMinds done a bit of research they would have seen it was a Michael Close thing. Also Sans Minds deserve all that they get for their misleading ad copy and trailers gimmicks that break while learning the effect anf them not selling refills and the TV rights thight.
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Mar 18, 2016 09:06AM)
[quote]On Mar 18, 2016, Magician560 wrote:
[quote]On Mar 18, 2016, selectedmagic wrote:
Wow respect! It's sad to see Nicholas posting on the other threads now while completely ignoring the posts about him ripping Bob Swadling and Rob Bromley off here. Having watched the videos he made and sent around before, it's so ironic. Now I feel bad for falling for his stories and bashed SM. [/quote]

SM should still be bashed for their TV rights statement and those trailers though ...

But for their ethics part , they've probably gone the furthest for correcting their wrongs . [/quote]

Really? Because they have just been accused of faking parts of their trailer for their effect Token...
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 18, 2016 09:24AM)
[quote]On Mar 18, 2016, TuneHV wrote:
[quote]On Mar 18, 2016, Magician560 wrote:
[quote]On Mar 18, 2016, selectedmagic wrote:
Wow respect! It's sad to see Nicholas posting on the other threads now while completely ignoring the posts about him ripping Bob Swadling and Rob Bromley off here. Having watched the videos he made and sent around before, it's so ironic. Now I feel bad for falling for his stories and bashed SM. [/quote]

SM should still be bashed for their TV rights statement and those trailers though ...

But for their ethics part , they've probably gone the furthest for correcting their wrongs . [/quote]

Really? Because they have just been accused of faking parts of their trailer for their effect Token... [/quote]

And that's why I mentioned that the running over DVDs is probably the only thing they did right . As for Token , I'm being positive believing they did borrow a straw and used a switch not taught on the DVD , but still ... Why not teach a better switching method ?

Ok ... we should get back on track ...
Message: Posted by: selectedmagic (Mar 18, 2016 11:55AM)
[quote]On Mar 18, 2016, Magician560 wrote:
[quote]On Mar 18, 2016, selectedmagic wrote:
Wow respect! It's sad to see Nicholas posting on the other threads now while completely ignoring the posts about him ripping Bob Swadling and Rob Bromley off here. Having watched the videos he made and sent around before, it's so ironic. Now I feel bad for falling for his stories and bashed SM. [/quote]

SM should still be bashed for their TV rights statement and those trailers though ...

But for their ethics part , they've probably gone the furthest for correcting their wrongs . [/quote]

I've seen this happened a few times with magic companies or creators. Most don't do much about it. I've never seen anyone gone that far to rectify the mistake. That's ethic worth respecting right there. I don't quite get the TV right issue though. I've seen the same statement from products by Shin Lim and other producers. What's really the issue there? Doesn't bother me as I don't have a TV show. If I do, I probably wouldn't mind paying a little extra to get exposure performing their creation on TV.
Message: Posted by: AriTheMan (Mar 18, 2016 02:27PM)
I have to agree mostly with all of you. But,... I watched a performance of somebody doing to Bob Swadling Color Changing Card (http://youtu.be/Bdtw2JMECac) and it looks very different. Could somebody who owns it maybe PM me and let me know the things that are the same and different as Chroma so that I can be more educated about this subject?

- Ari
Message: Posted by: Matthew Crabtree (Mar 18, 2016 04:33PM)
[quote]On Mar 18, 2016, AriTheMan wrote:
I have to agree mostly with all of you. But,... I watched a performance of somebody doing to Bob Swadling Color Changing Card (http://youtu.be/Bdtw2JMECac) and it looks very different. Could somebody who owns it maybe PM me and let me know the things that are the same and different as Chroma so that I can be more educated about this subject?

- Ari [/quote]

Don't even need to PM it is the same but it seems Bob's are better made
Message: Posted by: HoDinhYu (Mar 19, 2016 05:05AM)
Just bought the original Bob Swadling's. Will let all here know how it turns out.
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 19, 2016 09:53AM)
[quote]On Mar 17, 2016, HusssKarson wrote:
That is pretty ironic Fatgumbo. It was a huge thing back then. Videos crying for help, crowd funding campaign... Smart fellow. Victim well played. [/quote]

Let me start off by saying there is so much to say!! Im truly not the best at explaining everything when there is so much happeneing..firstly yourself and most of you on this forum have no clue what you are talking about when it comes down to myself and what ive been through in the magic industry. The People attacking me and spreading propaganda like husskarson + many more & maybe this new FatGumbo guy, these are most likely not real people sharing their opinions..these are Will Tsai himself or his minions at sansminds, let me clear that up ASAP! As for attacking me and saying I was a "victim well played" I am a victim 100% by Will Tsai & Sansminds & am still owed $$ & an apology. don't ever think you know what your talking about is fact unless it has happened to you or seen it LIVE. Lets talk about the $2 trick on the Wire that I "stole" I have records of creating that trick 4 years before It was published on the wire by (fake name) as well, Sensor Magic released Pound transpo which taught 2 methods and handlings not taught on the $2 download on the Wire THAT AGAIN WAS submitted by Will tsai to sabotague my sensor-magic release a week prior(i shouldnt have teased the effect on IG). Will Tsai started to attempt to release my ideas on the Wire & lie about my magic becauase he knew legally he cant release them and earn profit...its what he does, he will do anything to hurt my career at this point. As for me stealing the (trick rating info) at the end of our trailers? This system was actually originated by Xavier Spade and his company Lost Art Magic way before Sansmidns...now me using this system knowing that this rating system will become a standard for all magic companies because of its very useful nature isn't such a bad thing is it? and yes I truky did jump on after seeing sansminds "borrowing" at the end of their trailers.. simply to spit in their face.. aswell not allowing them to take credit for the rating idea that they took from orhers in the first place. Now the big one here is This release Chroma.. I honestly had no clue that There were previous versions on the market & simply joined Lloyd on a project we were excited to share together. I actually donated my time, construction & technique to this project and am no where near as proud of this project compared to other color changes I have created in the past, such as my Creation Evolve. If it was up to me, besides the additional work we did which does add more styles,applications and executions to this classic gimmick id say it isn't fair to Bob S for us to release further ideas with his gimmcik & would pull the release but know we all previously had no idea such gimmick already existed, we did our research & found the simple classic hold outwave change but nothing more. I promice I am not some evil creator trying to soak up $$ & fame.. I'm the opposite... Truly working on new projects everyday,researching and developing on projects I have conjured on my own time and very passionate about them and sinserly dream to see them blossom & inspire and yes to advanced my career and overall brand as a creator(maybe establish some foundation in my life as well). Believe what you want but I'm here to say truth & how unbelieveable it is I have to make this statement to defend myself after how hard I have worked and recieved so little from this industry. Will Tsai is a sick individual who is pulling strings to make me look like I'm un-ethical but if anything I am inexperienced and evolving as I type...mainly learning how devious some peoplecompanies can be. if you guys don't see it, ill work my hardest to prove how sick he & other companies are and collect bits from here on the Café showing you all how many Fake user names he has on this online magic forum. Tbis isn't all the details!! Any questions feel free to ask..i have nothing to hide.
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (Mar 19, 2016 10:30AM)
[quote]On Mar 19, 2016, NicholasLawrenceMagic wrote:
[quote]On Mar 17, 2016, HusssKarson wrote:
That is pretty ironic Fatgumbo. It was a huge thing back then. Videos crying for help, crowd funding campaign... Smart fellow. Victim well played. [/quote]

Let me start off by saying there is so much to say!! Im truly not the best at explaining everything when there is so much happeneing..firstly yourself and most of you on this forum have no clue what you are talking about when it comes down to myself and what ive been through in the magic industry. The People attacking me and spreading propaganda like husskarson + many more & maybe this new FatGumbo guy, these are most likely not real people sharing their opinions..these are Will Tsai himself or his minions at sansminds, let me clear that up ASAP! As for attacking me and saying I was a "victim well played" I am a victim 100% by Will Tsai & Sansminds & am still owed $$ & an apology. don't ever think you know what your talking about is fact unless it has happened to you or seen it LIVE. Lets talk about the $2 trick on the Wire that I "stole" I have records of creating that trick 4 years before It was published on the wire by (fake name) as well, Sensor Magic released Pound transpo which taught 2 methods and handlings not taught on the $2 download on the Wire THAT AGAIN WAS submitted by Will tsai to sabotague my sensor-magic release a week prior(i shouldnt have teased the effect on IG). Will Tsai started to attempt to release my ideas on the Wire & lie about my magic becauase he knew legally he cant release them and earn profit...its what he does, he will do anything to hurt my career at this point. As for me stealing the (trick rating info) at the end of our trailers? This system was actually originated by Xavier Spade and his company Lost Art Magic way before Sansmidns...now me using this system knowing that this rating system will become a standard for all magic companies because of its very useful nature isn't such a bad thing is it? and yes I truky did jump on after seeing sansminds "borrowing" at the end of their trailers.. simply to spit in their face.. aswell not allowing them to take credit for the rating idea that they took from orhers in the first place. Now the big one here is This release Chroma.. I honestly had no clue that There were previous versions on the market & simply joined Lloyd on a project we were excited to share together. I actually donated my time, construction & technique to this project and am no where near as proud of this project compared to other color changes I have created in the past, such as my Creation Evolve. If it was up to me, besides the additional work we did which does add more styles,applications and executions to this classic gimmick id say it isn't fair to Bob S for us to release further ideas with his gimmcik & would pull the release but know we all previously had no idea such gimmick already existed, we did our research & found the simple classic hold outwave change but nothing more. I promice I am not some evil creator trying to soak up $$ & fame.. I'm the opposite... Truly working on new projects everyday,researching and developing on projects I have conjured on my own time and very passionate about them and sinserly dream to see them blossom & inspire and yes to advanced my career and overall brand as a creator(maybe establish some foundation in my life as well). Believe what you want but I'm here to say truth & how unbelieveable it is I have to make this statement to defend myself after how hard I have worked and recieved so little from this industry. Will Tsai is a sick individual who is pulling strings to make me look like I'm un-ethical but if anything I am inexperienced and evolving as I type...mainly learning how devious some peoplecompanies can be. if you guys don't see it, ill work my hardest to prove how sick he & other companies are and collect bits from here on the Café showing you all how many Fake user names he has on this online magic forum. Tbis isn't all the details!! Any questions feel free to ask..i have nothing to hide. [/quote]

Do you even have any evidence to back up any of your claims that Will Tsai is trying to sabotage your releases? That the guy who released the trick on the wire was Will Tsai? It sounds like you are paranoid, overexaggerating and making extremely bold claims.. especially if you think I'm Will Tsai or part of the Sansminds team myself. I've been on the Café for a few years now, anyone looking at my profile can see that. Accusing me of 'spreading propaganda', that is laughable.

So, if it was up to you, the release would be pulled? Well you are the joint-creator of this effect, surely you would have taken steps already to rectify the situation? You recognise that this release shouldn't stand? And yet, it let it be published on Ellusionist, with your name associated with it? And no, you have not made improvements to a 'classic gimmick', it is identical to a marketed effect. The gimmick is not free information available in the public domain, new routines with a marketed gimmick does not constitute the right to re-release it WITHOUT permission from the creator.

We aren't hired by Sansminds , nor are we determined to make you suffer or to impede on your magic career. If you were so hard done by Sansminds, at least make an attempt to show and prove that your ethical standards are better than theirs.
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 19, 2016 10:41AM)
That's Right! I said it... Will Tsai & his minions are on here with made up names and have been using them forever for issues in the magic industry mostly protecting Sansminds products & Now coming to a forum near you! More Bs of Will Tsai basically talking to himself or his friends here on this forum like some *** elaborate story created by Will Himself.. Him & his friends work this Café like a german *** house. If I'm Lying please Will Tsai come here and tell me I'm wrong and defend all these negative attacks to my brand.
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 19, 2016 10:44AM)
Who the hell do you think you are fatgumbo?
Message: Posted by: C. Dunlop Magic (Mar 19, 2016 11:55AM)
[quote]On Mar 19, 2016, NicholasLawrenceMagic wrote:
Who the hell do you think you are fatgumbo? [/quote]

Whoa, I don't know who you think you are Nicholas, but that's really not a nice thing to say to anyone. After reading your long post, it surely looks like the opposite. It's like you are saying it's ok for you to steal because you have a reason. Who cares? Now that you are busted, are you going to do anything at all? You made it sound like everyone who has a problem with you stealing from other people works for SM. That's CRAZY! All the attack and propaganda spreading on the Internet we've seen are from you. From Facebook, crowd funding thing, videos.. Are you serious man? People are having problem with you stealing because you STOLE things from people. People think you are unethical because, again, you STOLE from people. Wake up! No Bob's effect is not a classic. He's still selling it. And NO, you did not improve it. C'mon that's lame.
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 19, 2016 12:00PM)
I havent read your entire comment but I did stop at "its ok for you to steal" I am not a thief and don't need to be...clearly.
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 19, 2016 12:03PM)
Speak to me on social media or email where real names are used when discuussing "serious" matters.. Apparently only known magicians have to use real names..and Will Tsai of course hiding behind fake names..pathetic.
Message: Posted by: Michael Mindreader (Mar 19, 2016 12:17PM)
Do you have anything to back up your claims? It really does sound like you are paranoid. So far we've only seen you stealing from people here. Now that you "discovered" the trick is not yours to sell, are you going to do anything about it? And What's with your ego? You made a post before about people should talk to you and see how "real professional" works. And now "only known magicians..." Where exactly do you work as a "professional" that's better than the rest of us just normal working magicians?
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 19, 2016 12:21PM)
Checked my Inbox on FB...no complaints or Any people with issues..huh? that's weird by the way your speaking, I'm such a terrible person right?, your absolutley insane if you think I'm anything less than a dedicated creator trying to inspire and make a life for myself. Ive done nothing to deserve the things said..someone saying ive stolen work or I'm a thief. That coulnt be further from the truth.. I work hard every day of my life on my magic.
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 19, 2016 12:25PM)
No ego...i promice. More like the opposite actually. My life is a wreck and I'm doing anything I can to move forward.
Message: Posted by: catweazle (Mar 19, 2016 12:32PM)
"a couple of months ago myself and nicholas lawrence sat down and took a look at a really old but really smart card gimmick that we both felt was really under used.
we started jamming our ideas and the next thing you know, we have both COME UP WITH OUR OWN UNIQUE HANDLINGS TO THE METHOD AND UPDATES TO THE GIMMICK."

?????
Message: Posted by: Magic McKing (Mar 19, 2016 12:36PM)
I am interested to know what you'd do to correct the wrongs too. Michael Mindreader brought up some good points. If you want to convince people you are ethical, you should let people know what you are going to do next. You are still selling Bob's effect. And it's not yours to sell. If you really have nothing to hide, why can't you answer questions from Fatgumbo, C Dunlop Magic, and Michael Mindreader here?
Message: Posted by: Elliot Nicklas (Mar 19, 2016 12:46PM)
What's wrong with all you people?! Can't you see Nicholas is the victim here?! He's the most creative magician in our time. He clearly doesn't need to steal! Fatgumbo, you are a minion, face it. Spit on Will Tsai for me. Michael Mindreader, who the hell are you? You are a nobody. You are comparing yourself and your creativity with Nicholas Lawrence? Magic McKing, is this even your real name? How do you know Nicholas didn't come up with this long before Bob? He came up with Pound long before the Wire guy published it.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 19, 2016 12:49PM)
Haha ... No surprise to see you here , Elliot you seem to be the biggest supporter of Nicholas from your previous posts .
Message: Posted by: catweazle (Mar 19, 2016 12:49PM)
[quote]On Mar 19, 2016, Elliot Nicklas wrote:
How do you know Nicholas didn't come up with this long before Bob? He came up with Pound long before the Wire guy published it. [/quote]

"a couple of months ago myself and nicholas lawrence sat down and took a look at a really old but really smart card gimmick that we both felt was really under used.
we started jamming our ideas and the next thing you know, we have both COME UP WITH OUR OWN UNIQUE HANDLINGS TO THE METHOD AND UPDATES TO THE GIMMICK."

QUOTE FROM THE DEMO VIDEO
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 19, 2016 12:53PM)
Appreciate the support elliot but I certainly did not create mine before Bob..also I'm not any better than anyone else,never have I ever presented myslef as such. I admit that its not a release I am proud of Because of the issues. I have already said if it were up to me I would pull Chroma off the market and that its not fair to Bob. Again I'm not selling anything...i worked on a project that is all.
Message: Posted by: C. Dunlop Magic (Mar 19, 2016 01:22PM)
It went from "Who the hell do you think you are?" to "no complains on my Facebook" and now "if it were up to me..." Lame. C'mon, you are a part of the project. That's a lot MORE you can do than just "if it were up to me". Public apology to creators you stole from, request Ellusionist to take this off shelf and express you don't want to be a part of this with your name and image off the product and trailer, so much you can do if you are being real about it. And if you want to convince people at this point, try actually answer questions people asked so far.

Elliot, I haven't seen any posts from you other than blindly supporting Nicholas. Just saying..
Message: Posted by: jackaboy (Mar 19, 2016 01:32PM)
I love a lot of nicholas's products he's a great magician I have all the respect for him but elliot to say he's the most creative magician of all time is ridiculous
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 19, 2016 01:45PM)
Even I agree to that one..(i am not the most Creative magician) But again I love my supporters even if they exaggerate the truth. I just have to say why am I being attacked like this..? What have I done wrong,so bad that I'm being called a thief!? Really...
Message: Posted by: magicman29 (Mar 19, 2016 02:33PM)
Nicolas, I think forget working with any companies other than your own for awhile . You worked for SansMinds and looked what happened, then everything was going good for you with sensor and now you do work with ellusionist and its back to the sh. t again.

Kieran
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 19, 2016 02:37PM)
Thanks for the advice kieran. That and stay off the Café!! Great advice for any young creator. This place is a dark place in magic...
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (Mar 19, 2016 02:38PM)
This thread got ugly fast.

To be fair, it's Lloyd's version of the gimmick that is nearly identical to Bob's- Nicholas' version had some differences.

I think The Will Tsai conspiracy theories are a bit far fetched, but to each their own.

Nicholas has already done more than enough to prove himself as a prolific creator with a lot of original ideas- great minds will think alike at times- it would just be nice if we all could act ethically and respectfully when those instances occur, but not everyone in this thread needs to act as the magic police
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 19, 2016 02:58PM)
Thankyou TuneHV... Ive had one hell of a day here & yes I made a claim Will Tsai is on here with Multiple accounts and cant prove it yet but I'm not the only one who thinks this and it will be revealed. Have a look at the Lynx Watch forum...once you know the user names to look for it becomes clear. As for this situation, I don't know what else I can do, ive already said that ive learned that chroma is not an original gimmick and I don't think its fair to Bob. If it were up to me I would pull the release right now but it isn't up to me.. Lets see what happens I personaly always do my best to make things right in the first place.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 19, 2016 07:39PM)
[quote]On Mar 20, 2016, C. Dunlop Magic wrote:
It went from "Who the hell do you think you are?" to "no complains on my Facebook" and now "if it were up to me..." Lame. C'mon, you are a part of the project. That's a lot MORE you can do than just "if it were up to me". Public apology to creators you stole from, request Ellusionist to take this off shelf and express you don't want to be a part of this with your name and image off the product and trailer, so much you can do if you are being real about it. And if you want to convince people at this point, try actually answer questions people asked so far.

Elliot, I haven't seen any posts from you other than blindly supporting Nicholas. Just saying.. [/quote]

While what you're saying is quite right , however I don't think any would pull themselves out of the projects they've worked on for a long time and put their full hearts into it , even when they've got super duper huge morality ... At least not instantly . It's easy to say , but it isn't easy to put yourself in his shoe . I do trust that he wasn't aware of this when he joined the creation , it would be unfair to ask him to pay full responsibility on this project . Afterall ... Ellusionist should be the one doing the most major research isn't it ? Since they're the company who released it . Just don't think your should be attacking Nicholas so harshly here ... There's no reason for it .
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 19, 2016 08:37PM)
Bob Swadling does have a trick using this principle. However, did Bob originate this principle? Was Bob's his to claim as his own? I don't know the answers to these questions, but it would seem odd, indeed, if this principle had not been explored multiple times by multiple people over the years prior to Bob's effect being released.

I know that generally speaking one does not copy a trick absolutely verbatim, but there are allowances if the effect is improved from a techincal/construction point of view. Is it absolutely sure that Chroma and Bob's effect are constructed *exactly* alike?
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 19, 2016 09:05PM)
Don't have both versions but I don't think any effect would be exactly alike unless deliberately copied .
Message: Posted by: Matthew Crabtree (Mar 19, 2016 09:10PM)
[quote]On Mar 19, 2016, Magician560 wrote:


While what you're saying is quite right , however I don't think any would pull themselves out of the projects they've worked on for a long time and put their full hearts into it , even when they've got super duper huge morality ... At least not instantly . It's easy to say , but it isn't easy to put yourself in his shoe . I do trust that he wasn't aware of this when he joined the creation , it would be unfair to ask him to pay full responsibility on this project . Afterall ... Ellusionist should be the one doing the most major research isn't it ? Since they're the company who released it . Just don't think your should be attacking Nicholas so harshly here ... There's no reason for it . [/quote]

All it takes is a couple of emails to a couple of people to get the answer 99% of the time. But the creator of the effect has the burden to do the leg work.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 19, 2016 09:37PM)
Yes , you're right , but notice there's two creaters ... ? What I'm trying to say here is , indeed he should have done some research , but there's no reason to put full blame on Nicholas .
Message: Posted by: toointoit (Mar 20, 2016 08:07AM)
Well...if you look at many past Nicholas Lawrence releases. Like On/Off, Split Second, Space Shifter, Impale, and Chroma...they all seem to be using past methods to accomplish similar effects.
On/Off was a straight ripoff from Simply Harkey
Split Second was a straight ripoff from Jesse Feinbergs trick, CashBox
Space Shifter used Danny Garcia's torn principle
Impale used the main gimmick as Alakazam Sharpie Through Card.
And Chroma...just look through this thread.
Nicholas may seem like a "Prolific Creator" but it just looks like he is building his "career" on the work and methods from others.
don't even get me started on how he went about him leaving SansMinds.
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 20, 2016 10:20AM)
[quote]On Mar 20, 2016, toointoit wrote:
Well...if you look at many past Nicholas Lawrence releases. Like On/Off, Split Second, Space Shifter, Impale, and Chroma...they all seem to be using past methods to accomplish similar effects.
On/Off was a straight ripoff from Simply Harkey
Split Second was a straight ripoff from Jesse Feinbergs trick, CashBox
Space Shifter used Danny Garcia's torn principle
Impale used the main gimmick as Alakazam Sharpie Through Card.
And Chroma...just look through this thread.
Nicholas may seem like a "Prolific Creator" but it just looks like he is building his "career" on the work and methods from others.
don't even get me started on how he went about him leaving SansMinds. [/quote]

Give me a moment to write up my responce to your pile of garbage comment,thanks.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 20, 2016 11:01AM)
Toointoil , I disagree with your statement completely . Apparently you have no clue what a new " creation " is , in this art .

Simply put , those release you mentioned that Nicholas had put out , was an improvement / a very new approach to the classic or original idea . Let me pose you a question then , would you consider all those double lift variations or pass variations a straight rip off from the original double lift or the pass ?

A principle is there for us to explore , and to improve on it , so long as there's right crediting ( in some cases ) , the creation is not considered a rip off at all .

However I'm really appalled by your " Impale used the main gimmick as Alakazam Sharpie Through Card . " ... Haha ... I've nothing to say on this one man ... Do you know just how many gimmicks made use of this f**p principle ?

There seem to have some extremist on here . One who said Nicholas is the greatest creator of all time and some who said that he's a theft ...

C'mon humans !
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 20, 2016 11:18AM)
Warning: You are about to read the rants and explanations behind these false claims & attacks on me & my character,Brand ect.(typos are to be expected,ill try my best)

Let me start off by saying thankyou to my supporters, means a lot. I'm now going to explain why (tointoit) comment is a pile of garbage and why I think (tointoit) is an As*hole..

Now let me explain why my effects are simply NOT ripoff's thank you very much...as*hole.

*onoff-   My first release & one of my proudest, My Credit to this effect was removed by Will Tsai  without my knowledge but indeed was Meir Yedid and after meeting him in person he is a real fan! And a great guy. Why is onoff so much different than David's magic? Firstly on Simply Harkey the material & moves are very different. This book has been out of print and very hard to achieve for awhile now, even more rare seeing anyone use his material, even the old timers at my local ring had no clue about Harkey as he is a secret gem of a creator. With that said I never seen David's moves and his very different routines until OnOff was released thus not ripoff of any kind, inluding again the look and method of the effects is very different. After getting some info from a guy who owns Harkeys book he told me "Never worry,  David didn't take his technique that far and never shaped his hands like yours, the effects he did with the technique were much different. The closest thing he had was he would pass a ring to pass through his ring finger falling onto the table. What he was doing was unbelievably different compared to yours." now after hearing this I was assured I was in the clear but I didn't stop there. I learned and mastered Harkey's technique which took time to adjust, to the many differences! Now I can not only say I learned the differences but see them & feel them. Learn the effects and see for yourself, don't make false negative statements about me in public space until you know the facts.

*Split Second- ok! Lets start off by saying again I had no clue about Jesse's Work at the time of creating Split second. His version is very different firstly because he can not naturally remove his setup from a wallet like mine, his is awkwardly pulled from a pocket looking like ironed pair of denim jeans, the truth.. It isn't natural and looks terrible as its one of his earlier creations. Where mine again comes from my wallet which takes it us to our Next difference. The look of the gimmick, Jesse's gimmick is thick & stiff and does nOt look real where mine is simply a real Bill and looks because it is, sounds and feels like a real bill because it is attached in a way to achieve a natural look. If those 2 differences are not enough of an improvement to a very simple Transformation effect I don't know what is.. this I can guarantee that Jesse wasnt the first to attempt this plot either(i don't have reference)but ridiculous to not understand we all stand on the shoulders of giants & the fact that split second was indeed a completely different independent creation that did hit the major market unlike Jesse's cashbox... that alone Is enough of a difference for me. His was unknown to the general public and after the differences have been addressed I can assure you mine is far superior and truly designed for the working magician, yet I have dramatic improvements added to my published version and that shows you I don't ever stop creating and working on my magic, I'm not copying its simply my take on these classic effects because that appears to be my style..i love basic simple everyday magic and I like to create what is easily explained magic effects which apparently has its curse of attacks because its similar to older published effects, but again I assure you the work behind these illusions are very different form one another. You should have more respect for those who dedicate there live to magic and attempting to better or inspire those involved, shame on you really...lets talk about Space shifter were getting off topic.

*Space Shifter- This is funny to me that I know so much more then my attacker about these referred thefts in the magic community.. Moving on, firstly Daniel Garcia did not create this principle actually it was Doug Bennet and his business Merger effect where Garcia was inspired from apparently. The principle may have been created before Doug... Again being self taught I was un-aware of these effects until my release, so indeed I used Doug's principle to achieve my effect which is completely original and has never even been a thought by another creator to move torn space,which since I have released it I opened up new doors & truly believe I made a difference by inspiring our generation. As Chris Ramsey would say, Space shifter looks like angle Z on acid. Which is amusing because it really is a trippy and original effect and I'm quite proud of & certain by the emails and messages I've received that it has inspired a lot of people..it truly is amazing. Kinda how amazing it was that I didn't get paid a dime for my effects Impale or Distance..lets move on down here it gets better.

*IMAPALE-  Now let me start off by saying I independently created sharpie through card 15 years ago after purchasing 'All New Cig Through by Mark Mason. I made many of these gimmicks over the years even gifted one of these gimmicks to a world famous magician kinda putting a time stamp on the moment for himself & I. I kept on working further on said plots like I naturally would and later I seen my original effect on the market by another artist which has now happened to me well over 50 times in the last 10 years & does happen I'm over it.. I still didn't drop the ball I took the effect further and made it into an opening effect which I am obsessed with by the way.. because I know it is the secret to engaging a crowd in seconds and keeping their attention off the rip! So I created IMPALE which By the way Jason Yu had nothing to do with.. the design of the gimmick is 100% mine start, start to finish, his name was added to promote himself and I guess make him stand out next to me... Anyways I agreed to that and that's fine but the point at hand here is this..to compare a simple sharpie through card to the layered intricacies & impossibilities involved with impale is insane. To be logical here its actually almost 60 X's more impossible than the traditional sharpie through card and then ends with everything examinable.. Get a life.

*Chroma I have explained Myslef enough...check the thread.

*Me Leaving SansMinds- You seem to know so much about me and my life & all my ripoff creations so you don't have to read this part ;) Here we go, I quit sansminds because I realized I wasn't going to receive the owed bonusus and paychecks once I realized they were breaching their own contract, I Quit. I realized all the promised raises,bonus & overall uncapped shi**y contract was a lie..he used me for over 500 of my effects,  Sansminds were very ugly to me after I filmed over 20 effects with their production team on my trip to their HQ in Canada. I could not understand why I was feeling used because I thought I was working with a appreciative mutually respected team... But really I was just a secret project to beef up their company. I cant say certain things here but I'm trying to give you guys the truth and how I was raped & left dry by sanminds & Will Tsai. I started to "run out" of new ideas after a year & a half into working & submitting 25 ideas a month. They then acted very cold and completely cut me off when they still owed me money from my last 2 checks and my promised royalties & contracted earned bonuses that I never received ever.. They then freezed my paypal account by saying I didn't "pay them" which in fact I didn't owe them anything anyway with paypal procedure I waited and my account was released and I didn't owe anyone anything.. I ended up winning the paypal dispute.. Now they start attacking me anyway they know how. Using my material even though they have a breached contract and a serious disagreement at hand. Then imagine this you tease a New effect for Sensor-Magic on IG & they hurry up and release it on The Wire because they know that is one of their last potential attacks to me. Could you even imagine how any of this feels? How far it sets me back...not to mention I only earned $200 For OnOff.. Embarrassing but truth.. Same for Split Second and Spaceshifter & others..all roughly $200 cash a piece because of the circumstances and contract it seemed like an ok deal in the beginning because of my lack of experience in the magic industry. My Autism is a huge role of who I am and the decisions I made, I chose to work with these people. I submitted those effects in the same month and they added them up and paid me but then promised that if the sales picked up and people enjoyed my material I would get the chance of a New contract that would include more $$ & royalties.. Which I never received forcing me to quit ...Unless I was going to release distance & impale for only $200 profit,which is insane. I didn't earn a dime for Impale or Distance..at all. Is this enough for you
Yet? Am I in the clear with how I left sanminds? Why I would want justice and inform the community about their sansminds con seems pretty legit now huh? You have no clue what its like to have a lot of your work (hundreds of valuable future magic products) ripped off and then to have my trade restricted by them contacting every production team saying not to work with me until they have cleared individually pitched effects to make sure they are not sanminds property...that alone is a serious restriction of trade, most have no clue of the seriousness of these issues and the condition it left me in both mentally, physically and financially. Please take a second and understand why I'm bitter yet admire that I have it in me to continue learning & advancing in this industry...for god sakes why is everyone a *** judge or magic police these days.. I work my ba**s off to accomplish what I have and still have NOTHING, I pay my bills and stay at home working or travel and work... Again only sustaining my lifestyle rather than moving ahead where some others have it easy enough to release a couple of effects and walk aways with thousands and endless opportunity where I again work work work and barely advanced my everyday life, I hope that those I inspired can at least say i accomplished something in my magic career, because apparently to people like you I'm a piece of fuc*ing sh*t, Thankyou. See you next time
Message: Posted by: Michael Mindreader (Mar 20, 2016 01:19PM)
Nicholas you are trying hard to convince people here by throwing mud around. But you haven't answered any of the questions people posted about what you are going to do to rectify the fact that you stole from good folks like Bob Swadling. You are making it sound like there are all those rightful reasons when you steal. And apparently you've been ripped off more than 50 times because people stole YOUR trick that you invented but no one knows about. Do you realize how crazy and ignorant that sounds? And to say Jesse feinberg's effect (which looks identical to yours) "looks terrible" and yours is "far more superior," and that Jesse is "unknown to public." That ego man. Are you known to public? You realize both tricks look the same right? You stated that Will Tsai removed your credit from On Off, how can your credit be removed when it's published under your name? What you are saying is not making a lot of sense. And the Jason guy had to "promote himself standing next to [you]." Seriously? The creator of Imprint is not too bad of a creator himself. I don't know where you get your confidence. And to say Impale is logically 60x more amazing than Alakazam's STC. STC is also a trick you got ripped off. You really need to think about what you are saying. Alakazam is a reputable dealer here. And they are great folks too. If what you are saying about Sansminds is true, they breached the contract and you did not, why don't you take them to court? Aside from the mud you are throwing everywhere, what people from this thread want to know is what you are going to do to rectify the fact that you stole from Bob Swadling and Rob Bromley. If you really want to convince people that you are ethical, start from answering real questions. Throwing mud around makes you look otherwise.
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Mar 20, 2016 01:38PM)
Michael Mindreader and Toointoit, you are both obviously here with an agenda. I don't know Lawrence at all other than through his creations many of which are wonderful and some of which aren't. Normally I would think he was paranoid but it's pretty clear you're just here to defame him. Really, the moderators here should stop this and ban people for this type of thing. There's a huge difference between expressing an opinion and what is happening here.

As for Nicholas, the situation with Sandsminds may have been unpleasant but you agreed to a contract with whatever parameters were agreed upon so really that's on you whether it was inexperience or something else. Time to move on and move forward. Your releases through sensor seem to be working best for you, maybe that's the best avenue.

Oh and Toointoit, all creation in every field is built on the backs of those that came before.
Message: Posted by: AaronishMagic (Mar 20, 2016 01:57PM)
I have to say I find it uncomfortable reading Nicholas' last post. Why look down on other creators?
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 20, 2016 02:37PM)
[quote]On Mar 20, 2016, AaronishMagic wrote:
I have to say I find it uncomfortable reading Nicholas' last post. Why look down on other creators? [/quote]

Hello Will, its been awhile. You hide behind these usernames..but soon it will make sense for a lot of people. I know your Will or one of Wills Friends or even a mmember of sansminds but I do know that I'm speaking to Will account aaronishmagic. Stop manipulating the situation with your muktiple accounts.. I get it, your sick and need to be put away, I havent put down any other artist at all but you jnow how to make me seem like a bad person huh? your being a bully like you have always been.
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 20, 2016 02:45PM)
Im not sure how many accounts you have but I'm up to 6 possible accounts, that's sick. You guys are working this Café like a Who** house promoting your own effects, attacking me and controlling reality like a weird modern shakespeare story and have been doing this for years, Will is an evil Grnius & is responciple for most of this negativity.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 20, 2016 03:44PM)
[quote]On Mar 20, 2016, Slackerking wrote:
Michael Mindreader and Toointoit, you are both obviously here with an agenda. [/quote]

This is the feeling that I'm getting, as well. Get a few posts in, elsewhere, then go on the attack.
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 20, 2016 03:54PM)
Glad you guys are seeing this and picking up on the strange activity here on the Café, not just involving me either..i felt there was a diliberate attack on the Lynx Smoke Forum aswell there I believe it becomes clear how they work and why once you know why they're there an who to look for. This place is crooked not 100 % crooked or course, there is great,honest people on here with opinions I depend on for input to improve my next potential release but I believe like I said there are people controlling these post from multiple accounts just like how Will is sabotaging my post and attacking me here.
Message: Posted by: Stucky (Mar 20, 2016 06:23PM)
[quote]On Mar 19, 2016, NicholasLawrenceMagic wrote:
No ego...i promice. More like the opposite actually. My life is a wreck and I'm doing anything I can to move forward. [/quote]

At some point you'd think he might stop and say "Maybe it's me?"

[quote]On Mar 19, 2016, jackaboy wrote:
I love a lot of nicholas's products he's a great magician I have all the respect for him but elliot to say he's the most creative magician of all time is ridiculous [/quote]

Let's not get crazy now. I would say creator before I'd say magician.

[quote]On Mar 20, 2016, Slackerking wrote:

Oh and Toointoit, all creation in every field is built on the backs of those that came before. [/quote]

Mostly true but not entirely.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 20, 2016 06:37PM)
[quote]On Mar 20, 2016, Stucky wrote:
[quote]On Mar 19, 2016, NicholasLawrenceMagic wrote:
No ego...i promice. More like the opposite actually. My life is a wreck and I'm doing anything I can to move forward. [/quote]

At some point you'd think he might stop and say "Maybe it's me?"

[/quote]

Read his posts again. I think you missed a couple of things.
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 20, 2016 07:23PM)
[quote]On Mar 20, 2016, Michael Mindreader wrote:
Nicholas you are trying hard to convince people here by throwing mud around. But you haven't answered any of the questions people posted about what you are going to do to rectify the fact that you stole from good folks like Bob Swadling. You are making it sound like there are all those rightful reasons when you steal. And apparently you've been ripped off more than 50 times because people stole YOUR trick that you invented but no one knows about. Do you realize how crazy and ignorant that sounds? And to say Jesse feinberg's effect (which looks identical to yours) "looks terrible" and yours is "far more superior," and that Jesse is "unknown to public." That ego man. Are you known to public? You realize both tricks look the same right? You stated that Will Tsai removed your credit from On Off, how can your credit be removed when it's published under your name? What you are saying is not making a lot of sense. And the Jason guy had to "promote himself standing next to [you]." Seriously? The creator of Imprint is not too bad of a creator himself. I don't know where you get your confidence. And to say Impale is logically 60x more amazing than Alakazam's STC. STC is also a trick you got ripped off. You really need to think about what you are saying. Alakazam is a reputable dealer here. And they are great folks too. If what you are saying about Sansminds is true, they breached the contract and you did not, why don't you take them to court? Aside from the mud you are throwing everywhere, what people from this thread want to know is what you are going to do to rectify the fact that you stole from Bob Swadling and Rob Bromley. If you really want to convince people that you are ethical, start from answering real questions. Throwing mud around makes you look otherwise. [/quote]

Do I need to correct this guy or...should I jist let it go? He's clearly twisting my words and giving his best attempt to make me look like ****.. When really I'm just a guy trying to make an honest living.
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Mar 20, 2016 08:22PM)
Let it go
Message: Posted by: The One (Mar 20, 2016 09:05PM)
Previous conflicts aside, I also would be interested to know what steps are being taken to remove this from the market, if indeed it is Swadling's Boomerang card. I can't think it would be too hard to do this, and even if hard, it would be the right thing to do.

At worst, the real creator's name should be put on the label, and he should get a cut of the profits.
Message: Posted by: AaronishMagic (Mar 20, 2016 09:38PM)
Nicholas, it's disturbing to me that you think people who don't agree with your post all work for sansminds. I've been here years before you and probably SM. It bothers me when I read your posts about other creators. I am a huge fan of Jesse Feinberg and I own most of his products. His magic is NOT terrible at all. And I agree with The One. At worst the real creator's name should be on the label and he should be a part of the project.
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 20, 2016 10:04PM)
[quote]On Mar 20, 2016, AaronishMagic wrote:
Nicholas, it's disturbing to me that you think people who don't agree with your post all work for sansminds. I've been here years before you and probably SM. It bothers me when I read your posts about other creators. I am a huge fan of Jesse Feinberg and I own most of his products. His magic is NOT terrible at all. And I agree with The One. At worst the real creator's name should be on the label and he should be a part of the project. [/quote]


I don't think everyone who disagrees with me work for sanminds membwrs or friends of Will tsai but I do know the difference between critique & attack and I have my reasons of accusing you of being one of them, as well it js what it js about Jesse' effect, I don't like it and wouldnt perform it, it conflicts with mine and is steps in thw wrong direction. As for me not having my name on split second that's just absurd & distubing someone would have that opinion to strip me of my intellectual property. Your a sick person....
Message: Posted by: AaronishMagic (Mar 20, 2016 10:28PM)
...... wow you are a real eye opener. Good luck. I have better things to do.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 20, 2016 10:34PM)
[quote]On Mar 21, 2016, NicholasLawrenceMagic wrote:
[quote]On Mar 20, 2016, Michael Mindreader wrote:
Nicholas you are trying hard to convince people here by throwing mud around. But you haven't answered any of the questions people posted about what you are going to do to rectify the fact that you stole from good folks like Bob Swadling. You are making it sound like there are all those rightful reasons when you steal. And apparently you've been ripped off more than 50 times because people stole YOUR trick that you invented but no one knows about. Do you realize how crazy and ignorant that sounds? And to say Jesse feinberg's effect (which looks identical to yours) "looks terrible" and yours is "far more superior," and that Jesse is "unknown to public." That ego man. Are you known to public? You realize both tricks look the same right? You stated that Will Tsai removed your credit from On Off, how can your credit be removed when it's published under your name? What you are saying is not making a lot of sense. And the Jason guy had to "promote himself standing next to [you]." Seriously? The creator of Imprint is not too bad of a creator himself. I don't know where you get your confidence. And to say Impale is logically 60x more amazing than Alakazam's STC. STC is also a trick you got ripped off. You really need to think about what you are saying. Alakazam is a reputable dealer here. And they are great folks too. If what you are saying about Sansminds is true, they breached the contract and you did not, why don't you take them to court? Aside from the mud you are throwing everywhere, what people from this thread want to know is what you are going to do to rectify the fact that you stole from Bob Swadling and Rob Bromley. If you really want to convince people that you are ethical, start from answering real questions. Throwing mud around makes you look otherwise. [/quote]

Do I need to correct this guy or...should I jist let it go? He's clearly twisting my words and giving his best attempt to make me look like ****.. When really I'm just a guy trying to make an honest living. [/quote]

Let it go ... Let it goo ...
Message: Posted by: Elliot Nicklas (Mar 20, 2016 10:35PM)
That's right! You are messing with the wrong guy AaronishMagic. Everybody is on Nicholas' side. Nicholas you have all our support!!
Message: Posted by: Michael Mindreader (Mar 20, 2016 11:25PM)
Now that I read my own message again, I feel like a jerk. I have to apologize for the way I said it. I had a tough day and I made the post while I was arguing with a co-worker. What Nicholas said reminded me of my co-worker and the way Nicholas put it really ****ed me off. I stand by what I said but I should have worded it better. I just couldn't stand the idea of one is more superior than the rest of the pack attitude. If I offended anyone, my apologies.
Message: Posted by: Elliot Nicklas (Mar 21, 2016 01:54AM)
You are a d*ck Michael Mindreader. Face it. Nicholas is more superior than you. And probably your coworker too.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 21, 2016 02:00AM)
[quote]On Mar 21, 2016, Elliot Nicklas wrote:
You are a d*ck Michael Mindreader. Face it. Nicholas is more superior than you. And probably your coworker too. [/quote]

No no ... Stop heating this up further . He apologized and stepped back one step already , that's enough ...

A wise man reasons , not pours words with " ****** " in it ...
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 21, 2016 09:14AM)
[quote]On Mar 21, 2016, Elliot Nicklas wrote:
You are a d*ck Michael Mindreader. Face it. Nicholas is more superior than you. And probably your coworker too. [/quote]

Elliot your support is great but no need to attack anyone any further, I'm not about hurting or smashing anyone down here, I really am about peace and pushing this art forward, and do what I believe to be done ethically. All problems take time to fix & move forward.
Message: Posted by: Stucky (Mar 21, 2016 04:19PM)
[quote]On Mar 21, 2016, NicholasLawrenceMagic wrote:
[quote]On Mar 21, 2016, Elliot Nicklas wrote:
You are a d*ck Michael Mindreader. Face it. Nicholas is more superior than you. And probably your coworker too. [/quote]

Elliot your support is great but no need to attack anyone any further, I'm not about hurting or smashing anyone down here, I really am about peace and pushing this art forward, and do what I believe to be done ethically. All problems take time to fix & move forward. [/quote]

Does anyone else get the feeling Nicholas is having a conversation with himself here?
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 21, 2016 04:42PM)
[quote]On Mar 21, 2016, Stucky wrote:
Does anyone else get the feeling Nicholas is having a conversation with himself here? [/quote]

Not at all.
Message: Posted by: Ceierry (Mar 21, 2016 05:01PM)
[quote]On Mar 21, 2016, Stucky wrote:
[quote]On Mar 21, 2016, NicholasLawrenceMagic wrote:
[quote]On Mar 21, 2016, Elliot Nicklas wrote:
You are a d*ck Michael Mindreader. Face it. Nicholas is more superior than you. And probably your coworker too. [/quote]

Elliot your support is great but no need to attack anyone any further, I'm not about hurting or smashing anyone down here, I really am about peace and pushing this art forward, and do what I believe to be done ethically. All problems take time to fix & move forward. [/quote]

Does anyone else get the feeling Nicholas is having a conversation with himself here? [/quote

nope... ?
Message: Posted by: NicholasLawrenceMagic (Mar 21, 2016 06:05PM)
Got a problem Stucky? Im suprised you havent noticed Will Tsai having conversations with himself on these forums for years using his multiple accounts. Oh, No... But you'll accuse me after I just Now finnaly set up a Café account.. Did Will offer you free product to say that? This place kills me..
Message: Posted by: Matthew Crabtree (Mar 21, 2016 06:36PM)
[quote]On Mar 21, 2016, NicholasLawrenceMagic wrote:
Got a problem Stucky? Im suprised you havent noticed Will Tsai having conversations with himself on these forums for years using his multiple accounts. Oh, No... But you'll accuse me after I just Now finnaly set up a Café account.. Did Will offer you free product to say that? This place kills me.. [/quote]

Dude I have been watching this now for a few days and you need to walk away from this thread. You are starting to come off like "Everyone is out to get me." I'm sure it is leaving a bad taste with potential future buyers. There is a reason Rick Lac left, and there is a reason a lot of creators do not even bother to come here. No I'm not Will. No I'm not getting anything to say this.
Message: Posted by: Chessmann (Mar 21, 2016 06:48PM)
I wouldn't put it past some people to create multiple accounts for their own purposes. In fact, if such a person plays their cards right, and puts in a modicum of time and effort, they can really tear up a person's reputation. If anyone thinks that doesn't go on, please think again - it certainly does. I'm not suggesting that is the case here, I have no idea, but there are people out there who, if motivated enough, would have no problem doing so.

But I'm in agreement with those hear who suggest Nicholas break from the Café, as I would most any creator. There's a lot of good here, but their is also bad, just like you'll get in any large community. It isn't worth it.
Message: Posted by: Legendary Wizard (Mar 21, 2016 06:48PM)
[quote]On Mar 22, 2016, Matthew Crabtree wrote:
[quote]On Mar 21, 2016, NicholasLawrenceMagic wrote:
Got a problem Stucky? Im suprised you havent noticed Will Tsai having conversations with himself on these forums for years using his multiple accounts. Oh, No... But you'll accuse me after I just Now finnaly set up a Café account.. Did Will offer you free product to say that? This place kills me.. [/quote]

Dude I have been watching this now for a few days and you need to walk away from this thread. You are starting to come off like "Everyone is out to get me." I'm sure it is leaving a bad taste with potential future buyers. There is a reason Rick Lac left, and there is a reason a lot of creators do not even bother to come here. No I'm not Will. No I'm not getting anything to say this. [/quote]

It's about whether or not one could take harsh criticisms and respond wisely and calmly , should one chose to be here . I too agree Nicholas should either calm down , be a little positive , or walk away .
Message: Posted by: Merlin (Mar 21, 2016 06:51PM)
Everybody on the café is the same person except me. So that makes two of us.
Message: Posted by: Slackerking (Mar 21, 2016 08:51PM)
I have no idea why any creator would come here, I'd highly suggest following all the other wonderful creators out the door and interact on other social media options. This place has its good side, but not for those who put out product. Sadly. It's difficult I'm sure to answer criticism and attacks calmly and for every legitimate useful post there seems to be half a dozen useless, just piling on to pile on posts. Feels like a Trump rally and a sad commentary of the world today.

Personally I think it should be required to use our own names to post here (and yes I know I'm using an alias. I've used it online for thirty years and gotten used to it as a moniker however I'd happily change it if asked to to stop people from hiding behind anonymity and stupidity).
Message: Posted by: hocuspocus (Mar 26, 2016 11:03AM)
Glad all this arguments have stopped and I'm just interested to see what ur new and upcoming effects are going to be! I bought download last time and I really enjoyed it! gr8 work Nicholas!!! :)
Message: Posted by: hocuspocus (Mar 27, 2016 11:38PM)
[quote]On Mar 21, 2016, Magician560 wrote:
[quote]On Mar 22, 2016, Matthew Crabtree wrote:
[quote]On Mar 21, 2016, NicholasLawrenceMagic wrote:
Got a problem Stucky? Im suprised you havent noticed Will Tsai having conversations with himself on these forums for years using his multiple accounts. Oh, No... But you'll accuse me after I just Now finnaly set up a Café account.. Did Will offer you free product to say that? This place kills me.. [/quote]

Dude I have been watching this now for a few days and you need to walk away from this thread. You are starting to come off like "Everyone is out to get me." I'm sure it is leaving a bad taste with potential future buyers. There is a reason Rick Lac left, and there is a reason a lot of creators do not even bother to come here. No I'm not Will. No I'm not getting anything to say this. [/quote]

It's about whether or not one could take harsh criticisms and respond wisely and calmly , should one chose to be here . I too agree Nicholas should either calm down , be a little positive , or walk away . [/quote]

Agreed, there will always be people who are jealous and will criticise you so it's ok, just ignore these comments
Message: Posted by: kardini (Apr 4, 2016 01:11AM)
Magician DABA (Argentina) created several years ago a playing card thrown in the air turned into another. Method very, very similar. I have it!! "Card to Card": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0haiNKZVHk
Message: Posted by: mh1001 (May 5, 2016 06:21AM)
It seems to me that when Lloyd Barnes does the movement, it flashes a little bit. But the handling by Lawrence didn't, and I can't see the gimmick in motion. I would like to know the opinions of people who bought the trick and tried Lawrence's method on real people. Does it look nice in real life ?

P.S.: it's possible someone here already reviewed the product in depth, but I stopped reading the thread, as most of the comments were about how Ellusionist is evil and/or the concept of this trick is a rehash of an old one. It's a very annoying thread, and that happens every time Ellusionist releases a new product (look at the RFR-Ellusionist thread...).