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Topic: My materials on Arthur Ford that were eliminated from Wikipedia
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 7, 2016 02:53PM)
Arthur Ford (January 8, 1896 – January 4, 1971) was an American psychic spiritual medium, clairaudient, and founder of the Spiritual Frontiers Fellowship (1955). He gained national attention when he claimed to have contacted the dead son of Bishop Pike in 1967 on network TV. In 1928 Ford claimed to have contacted the deceased spirits of Houdini's mother and later in 1929 Harry Houdini, himself.

Contents [hide]
1 Biographical problems
2 Early life
3 Fletcher, the spirit guide
4 Fletcher's dialogue
5 The Three Houdini Messages and others
6 The Sun Myung Moon Sittings
7 Ford's Hidden Archives

Biographical problems
Biographer Allen Spraggett called him American Spiritualism's near-pope and society's clairvoyant, comparable with the 19th century medium Daniel Dunglas Home. After a sitting, William McDougall, then psychologist at Harvard University and the 1920 president of the American Society for Psychical Research, said Ford had supernormal powers on page 2 of Spraggett's book, but then later Ford informs the author on page 226, when Ford communicated to McDougall the first names of his parents, McDougall said he "was not duly impressed." The American Society for Psychical Research library does not contain any record of Ford and McDougall sittings in its past journals, newsletters, or cross-references' Ford was known as a marvelous teller of tales when it came to his life. Each time Ford told a story it was a little different from the last. One of his friends said, "I don't think he knew what was fact and what wasn't." As with the McDougall story, as shown, the biographer Allen Spraggett also changes and stretches details. This makes a critical review of the history extremely difficult, if not impossible. For example, the dispute of did Ford serve his military duty in France, or instead in the USA. He offered both versions to his biographers.[1]

Early life
Arthur Ford was born on January 8, 1896 at 10:30 a.m. local time in the small town of Titusville, Florida. He studied Christianity and was offered a ministerial scholarship in 1917 to Transylvania College, a Disciples of Christ school in Lexington, Kentucky. He was ordained as a Disciples minister, and served a church in Barbourville, Kentucky until 1924 when he began touring.

Arthur Ford claimed that during the First World War while serving in the Army that he did not serve outside the States with his company, and then later he stated while serving in France[1] he would hear the names of fellow soldiers who were going to die of the 1918 Spanish flu. Later he began to hear the names soldiers who within the next days would appear on the casualty lists. Their names were in exactly the same sequential order on the list as Ford had previously recorded the day before.[2] Ford claimed that sometime before 1932 when he visited India, he had already learned methods of conscious projection from the Hindu religious teacher Swami Paramahansa Yogananda[2] and was constantly in touch with him. In Yogananda's 1946 Autobiography of a Yogi Arthur Ford is not mentioned. Ford stated he was called David by the Hindus, which he said meant "Door to Heaven."[1]

After the war he researched purported psychic phenomena and became a Spiritualist around 1921. In 1924 Ford toured the New England States appearing between the acts of the S.S. Henry's illusion production. The Sphinx, a conjuring periodical stated on August 1924 "he gave one of the finest talks on magic ever heard" in Athol, Massachusetts. He lost his interest in magic and became fascinated with the occult. He became a professional "hot and cold reader" and "billet reader," reading sealed messages given to him by members of his audience. This type of mentalism entertainment was very popular in the 1920s.[3] Ford claimed he could read minds.[2]

Fletcher, the spirit guide
Soon Ford became a trance medium. One day in 1924 an alleged deceased control began to speak from Ford's mouth. Words were delivered slow and deliberately, unlike Ford who spoke rapidly and slurred his words. In a voice sounding very similar to Ford's the control announced himself as Fletcher. Fletcher often ended questions with "no?". This proved to sitters he was French-Canadian. He became Ford's personal guide to the dead in the spirit world for the next three years.[1]

Ford and others were very curious about Fletcher's past life. As was common with Ford he gave a variety of answers that didn't match.[1]

Ford traveled to Britain in 1927 and did a public demonstration of his abilities for Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who the next day in the London Express, or possibly the Sunday Express, wrote, "One of the most amazing things I have ever seen in 41 years of psychic experience was the demonstration of Arthur Ford."[2]

In 1965, Ford said,

"When Fletcher comes, I am totally unconscious. That proves its complete detachment. I can't remember anything. It isn't merely hypnosis. Fletcher is using words through me, using my voice. Naturally, they don't use words over there. Words are physical sounds. He has to interpret thoughts and ideas, that sort of thing, and put them into words." [1][unreliable source?]
"If we ask a discarnate to manifest on earth for even a moment, he has to have an instrument or vehicle suitable for that, so he borrows either the mind or any of the senses that he needs of a human being, In my case, I go to sleep because I was trained by a yoga, In this state of unconsciousness in which my objective mind is pushed aside there is a personality called Fletcher comes through." [2][unreliable source?]
Fletcher's dialogue
Ford had an aversion for having his messages verbally recorded. It seems that completely detailed notes were avoided. There is also some question of their accuracy.[1] Ford claimed that it was Fletcher who spoke to the living revealing information that was completely unknown. The following are some examples of dialogue: "You come from part of the country", "I see you have just flown in from the west coast", "You seem to be quite a traveler", "Another preacher tonight", "The worried man in the corner", "The woman with a pencil", "The name is Harry, Henry. No, it is Harrall", "You had a relative who died in World War I".[2]

In a typical sitting with Ford the communications were rambling, disjointed, only infrequently smooth-flowing. There was a lot of groping for the proper phrase, expression or a name. Often Fletcher would make one try at getting some evidence of fact straight, then back up and run at it again. For example:

"Anyone here called Melton—Jane Melton?" A hand goes up.

"Your brother Albert is here."

"No, I never had a brother Albert."

"Oh yes, you had."

"No."

"Think again."

Yet, according to his biographer's Spraggett and Rauscher, out of the meandering, sometimes seemingly random, process emerged—exact names, odd details, exceedingly private trivia—which hit the sitter with dazzling force.

"Oh, I'm sorry. Of course, little Bertie who died young."[1]

Ford claimed he had seen every miracle performed by Jesus duplicated; except the raising of the dead.[1]

The Three Houdini Messages and others
The three key messages Harry Houdini told his wife Bess he would convey from the afterlife were "Forgive, Beatrice, Believe." Arthur Ford is claimed by some to have successfully conveyed all of these in 1929. Bess had told the press that the only copies of the three messages were locked up in her safe deposit box at the Manufacturers Banks on Fifth Avenue in Manhattan, New York City. Her attorney denied this box existed.[3] Later, both Bess and Ford claimed that this incident had been faked, but for different reasons. Bess said it was a conscious fake, but Ford said it was legitimate.[4]

A year before Ford claimed to have heard the "FORGIVE" message from Houdini's deceased mother (and disclosed in a letter by Arthur Ford to Bess Houdini), Arthur Conan Doyle mentioned in a 1930 article that Bess had disclosed the word to a Brooklyn Eagle reporter on March 13, 1927. Bess was quoted as saying that any authentic communication from Mrs. Weiss would have to include the word "FORGIVE," providing enough information that Ford could seem to divine the message from the afterlife. Doyle, a longtime believer in the occult, believed Ford when he said he knew nothing about the news article.[5]

On page 105 of Houdini: His Life-Story by Harold Kellock, from the recollections and documents of Beatrice Houdini, Harcourt, Brace Co., June, 1928, are disclosed the associated 10 letters, 10 key numbers and key words of the Houdini code as it was used in performance by Harry Houdini and wife Bess. Every letter of B E L I E V E, this secret message from beyond the grave communicated by Arthur Ford to Bess Houdini on January 7, 1929, had been available to the general public for a period of six to seven months if one recognized how to use it. In a statement Bess made to the January 9, 1929 World, Bess said, "I had no idea what combination of words Harry would use and when he sent "BELIEVE" it was a surprise".[5] There is no mention of Kellock and Bess Houdini's public disclosure of the code letters in The Secret Life of Houdini by William Kalush and Larry Sloman.

The Sun Myung Moon Sittings
In his book Unknown But Known Ford had recounted two lengthy seances undertaken on behalf of Sun Myung Moon, then an obscure Korean evangelist. The accounts were removed from later editions of the book.

In a sitting on November 1964, Ford said Fletcher mentioned Pieter Alexander, who had learned about Sun Myung Moon's ideas on spiritual growth. According to Alexander (in the seance), Moon denied the theory of reincarnation but taught,

"Spirits on this side progress, but their progression is helped or hindered by things done or undone on the earth plane. ... Practically everyone on the earth plane is in some fashion being used, either as a means of helping someone here to progress, or to help someone on the earth plane to speak the Word or do the thing that is necessary." [3]
Ford's Hidden Archives
After Arthur Ford's death, Ford's close friend and supporter William V. Rauscher [4] and author Allen Spraggrett discovered Ford's collection of obituaries, newspaper clippings, Who's Who articles, etc. that Ford had hidden away. They were disguised as bound poetry books. Ford read his poetry before giving a reading. There was enough information to indicate that much of the famous Pike messages and others were fraudulent.[6] There were many other things that Ford ordered his secretary to burn before his death that are lost. Ford and his secretary parted company due to a falling out. Ford's secretary claimed Ford had no psychic abilities. The book Arthur Ford: The Man Who Talked with the Dead by Allen Spraggett with William V. Rauscher, New American Library, Inc.,1973
Message: Posted by: brehaut (Apr 7, 2016 02:58PM)
Do you know why it was eliminated ?
Message: Posted by: Sean Giles (Apr 7, 2016 03:03PM)
Probably because it's heavily biased.
Message: Posted by: Matt Chalk (Apr 7, 2016 03:05PM)
I'm all for skepticism.

But that is an insanely biased article. No wonder wiki didn't accept it. Its for facts and information about people, not personal opinions
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 7, 2016 03:10PM)
My materials presented too much information.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 7, 2016 03:42PM)
It is just as biased as the ones who claim there is no spiritual realm. They can not prove it. Ford was a great Floridian. He's a hero down here. He delivered the 11 word secret code from Houdini, the greatest debunker ever ... No one can explain it. :banana:
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 7, 2016 06:21PM)
I have offered no personal opinion. All materials were from second hand sources. Some of them offered what were defined as quotes from Ford. Supposed quotes from Ford were not allowed. Personally I do not care if Ford was an authentic medium or a fraud. I makes no difference to me. I am only interested in what was supposed to have happened from the materials I could obtain. I was not selective. I consider myself a puzzler and amateur historian. Ford fascinated me.
Message: Posted by: RobertMarsi (Apr 7, 2016 06:39PM)
Because Wikipedia is a biased, left-wing, atheist leaning news source. They're becoming more hated by people everyday. Any wonder why they are on the verge of Bankruptcy? They're always panhandling for money!
Message: Posted by: Matt Chalk (Apr 7, 2016 08:39PM)
[quote]On Apr 7, 2016, Slim King wrote:
It is just as biased as the ones who claim there is no spiritual realm. They can not prove it. Ford was a great Floridian. He's a hero down here. He delivered the 11 word secret code from Houdini, the greatest debunker ever ... No one can explain it. :banana: [/quote]

"Authors William Kalush and Larry Sloman speculate that Bess Houdini was initially supportive of Ford's claims due to the effects of alcoholism, and that she had romantic feelings for Ford. Others such as Milbourne Christopher speculate that the text of the message used a private code between Houdini and his wife that could have easily been broken by Ford or his associates using a number of existing clues.[2][5][7][8][9]".
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 7, 2016 08:58PM)
It is not foolish to not include every bit of information that exists. As you say these are speculations. Not every book and author that supposedly reveals the past agrees with another.

As best that I can remember my sources were:

1. Arthur Ford: The Man Who Talked with the Dead by Allen Spraggett with William V. Rauscher, New American Library, Inc.,1973

2. Nothing So Strange: The Autobiography of Arthur Ford by Arthur Ford in collaboration with Margueritte Harmon Bro, Harper & Row, 1958.

3. Mediums, Mystics, and the Occult by Milbourne Christopher, Thomas Y. Crowell, Co., 1975

4. The Secret Life of Houdini by William Kalush and Larry Sloman, Atria Books, 2006.

5. Houdini: The Untold Story by Milbourne Christopher, Thomas Y. Crowell Co., 1969


6. The Secret Life of Houdini by Willam Kalush and Larry Sloman, Atria books, 2006, Chapter 20


7. Houdini: The Man Who Walked Through Walls by William L. Gresham, Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1959

8. Sixty Years of Psychical Research by Joseph F. Rinn, Truth Seeker Co., 1950

9. Arthur Ford: The Man Who Talked with the Dead by Allen Spraggett with William V. Rauscher, New American Library, Inc., 1973
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 7, 2016 09:13PM)
I have already stated the text of the message used a private code between Houdini and his wife that could have easily been broken by Ford or his associates using a number of existing clues.

Go back and read this: On page 105 of Houdini: His Life-Story by Harold Kellock, from the recollections and documents of Beatrice Houdini, Harcourt, Brace Co., June, 1928, are disclosed the associated 10 letters, 10 key numbers and key words of the Houdini code as it was used in performance by Harry Houdini and wife Bess.

The three key messages Harry Houdini told his wife Bess he would convey from the afterlife were "Forgive, Beatrice, Believe." Arthur Ford is claimed by some to have successfully conveyed all of these in 1929. This is a year later.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 8, 2016 12:04AM)
[quote]On Apr 7, 2016, Matt Chalk wrote:
[quote]On Apr 7, 2016, Slim King wrote:
It is just as biased as the ones who claim there is no spiritual realm. They can not prove it. Ford was a great Floridian. He's a hero down here. He delivered the 11 word secret code from Houdini, the greatest debunker ever ... No one can explain it. :banana: [/quote]

"Authors William Kalush and Larry Sloman speculate that Bess Houdini was initially supportive of Ford's claims due to the effects of alcoholism, and that she had romantic feelings for Ford. Others such as Milbourne Christopher speculate that the text of the message used a private code between Houdini and his wife that could have easily been broken by Ford or his associates using a number of existing clues.[2][5][7][8][9]".

[/quote]
Kalush and Sloman speculated that Bess and Daisy White owned a brothel together. :) RIGHT!!!!
Houdini was the greatest Fake Spiritualist debunker in the entire world. Why would he make a code that could easily be broken???? ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 8, 2016 12:17AM)
[quote]On Apr 7, 2016, miistermagico wrote:
I have already stated the text of the message used a private code between Houdini and his wife that could have easily been broken by Ford or his associates using a number of existing clues.

Go back and read this: On page 105 of Houdini: His Life-Story by Harold Kellock, from the recollections and documents of Beatrice Houdini, Harcourt, Brace Co., June, 1928, are disclosed the associated 10 letters, 10 key numbers and key words of the Houdini code as it was used in performance by Harry Houdini and wife Bess.

The three key messages Harry Houdini told his wife Bess he would convey from the afterlife were "Forgive, Beatrice, Believe." Arthur Ford is claimed by some to have successfully conveyed all of these in 1929. This is a year later. [/quote]
The problem here is that she disclosed a NUMBER CODE... She made NO MENTION of a letter code. The code she revealed was one they had used to give the date of a coin. At no time did she mention this as a letter code.

In addition .. The first word was ROSABELLE (No code) ... The second part was coded with an Alphabetical Code .. 10 words spelling out BELIEVE and the last 5 words were given by Bess in French ... The entire code was a two way code of 16 words in French, English and an English code..... Only Bess and Harry knew the complexity of the coded afterlife experiment. It was 100% successful.
Message: Posted by: Sean Giles (Apr 8, 2016 01:12AM)
[quote]On Apr 8, 2016, RobertMarsi wrote:
Because Wikipedia is a biased, left-wing, atheist leaning news source. They're becoming more hated by people everyday. Any wonder why they are on the verge of Bankruptcy? They're always panhandling for money! [/quote]

Maybe Conservapedia is more your thing.
Message: Posted by: RobertMarsi (Apr 8, 2016 08:42AM)
[quote]On Apr 8, 2016, Sean Giles wrote:
[quote]On Apr 8, 2016, RobertMarsi wrote:
Because Wikipedia is a biased, left-wing, atheist leaning news source. They're becoming more hated by people everyday. Any wonder why they are on the verge of Bankruptcy? They're always panhandling for money! [/quote]

Maybe Conservapedia is more your thing. [/quote]

You got a problem with that? Even though not perfect, it makes much more sense to me, than left-wing propaganda!
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 8, 2016 09:14AM)
If I remember correctly the code used by the Houdini's was the same code used by magician Harry Kellar.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 8, 2016 09:40AM)
"Harry Houdini". TIME (magazine). February 15, 1943.

Retrieved 2008-07-31. The late, great prestidigitator

Harry Houdini, famed foe of phony mediums, and his wife

Beatrice agreed before his death to try to get in touch

with each other afterwards. Gravely ill last week in

Hollywood, his widow announced that she had not only

given up trying but had her doubts about the existence of

a hereafter. She had held seances every year for ten

years, unsuccessfully. "Ten years," observed patient Mrs.

Houdini last week, "is long enough to wait for any man."
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 8, 2016 03:32PM)
The Day Houdini (Almost) Came Back from the Dead
Notes on a Strange World
Massimo Polidoro
Skeptical Inquirer Volume 36.2, March/April 2012
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/the_day_houdini_almost_came_back_from_the_dead

This article contains the explanation of the Houdini Message code and how the numbers related to the alphabet. At one time I think I added this info about the Houdini code to the Wikipedia but it was eliminated. As usual as with most of my materials it was considered to be lengthy and worthless. I am not a champion of brevity for brevity's sake. The explanation offered here is not original to this article. I had read this somewhere else, but I cannot remember where. Can I get any help? I have sent a question to the IBM asking if the code used by the Houdini's was the same one used by magician Harry Kellar. If and when I get a reply I will post it here. Like my mentor Martin Gardner I enjoy a mysterious puzzle.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 8, 2016 09:32PM)
[quote]On Apr 8, 2016, miistermagico wrote:
"Harry Houdini". TIME (magazine). February 15, 1943.

Retrieved 2008-07-31. The late, great prestidigitator

Harry Houdini, famed foe of phony mediums, and his wife

Beatrice agreed before his death to try to get in touch

with each other afterwards. Gravely ill last week in

Hollywood, his widow announced that she had not only

given up trying but had her doubts about the existence of

a hereafter. She had held seances every year for ten

years, unsuccessfully. "Ten years," observed patient Mrs.

Houdini last week, "is long enough to wait for any man." [/quote]
Yes ... This is total bunk that has never been proven. No one on this planet has ever shown that Bess held a seance every halloween for 10 years ... There has been no proof of this ... What has been shown is that the huxster Edward Saint tried to sell a Movie making this claim that was never substantiated. In fact, Bess and Edward were "Roommates" for almost 6 years before she said this ... Looks like Bess didn't wait much at all ... ;) (CERTAINLY NOT TEN YEARS) The Final Houdini Seance was a total publicity stunt. Audio experts say the recording wasn't even made on top of the building where the Seance was faked. ROTFLMAO :dancing:
Message: Posted by: Sean Giles (Apr 8, 2016 09:38PM)
[quote]On Apr 8, 2016, RobertMarsi wrote:
[quote]On Apr 8, 2016, Sean Giles wrote:
[quote]On Apr 8, 2016, RobertMarsi wrote:
Because Wikipedia is a biased, left-wing, atheist leaning news source. They're becoming more hated by people everyday. Any wonder why they are on the verge of Bankruptcy? They're always panhandling for money! [/quote]

Maybe Conservapedia is more your thing. [/quote]

You got a problem with that? Even though not perfect, it makes much more sense to me, than left-wing propaganda! [/quote]
I don't even know you so why would I have a problem with that? If you want to believe dinosaurs were running around with humans 6000 years ago that's your business.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 8, 2016 10:42PM)
My question sent to I.B.M.,
There seems to be some dispute that Bess Houdini held seances every year for 10 years on Halloween trying to contact her deceased husband. I would imagine there are historical records of Bess Houdini's efforts. Can you direct me to them?

If and when I receive an answer to this request I will post it here.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 9, 2016 03:13AM)
Http://geniimagazine.com/magicpedia/Edward_Saint

According to the Magicpedia Of Genii Magazine

Edward Saint

Cover of Genii 1937 November
Born Charles David Meyers
1891
Died October 22 1942
Hollywood, California
Resting place Hollywood Forever Cemetery
Dr. Edward Saint (1891-1942) was a carnival worker, magician and seance conductor. [1][2][3]

Biography
He was also known as "Professor Sesrad" and "Sir Edward St. Ra-Diem" and was a companion of Bess Houdini after Houdini's death.[4]

Saint was the primary driving force behind the Houdini Seances and conducted them himself atop the Knickerbocker Hotel just off Hollywood Boulevard for over 10 years until Bess finally decided to put an end them in 1936. (Ten years after Harry Houdini died, 31 Oct 1926)


He was a charter member of the IBM Ring 21 in Hollywood, California.[5]

A good friend of Genii's Editor, William Larsen, Sr., he wrote a monthly column, "Thru The Monocle", for a number of years.[6][7]

References
1. http://www.ibmring21.org/famous.html
2. http://www.wildabouthoudini.com/2012/01/finding-grave-of-edward-saint.html
3. http://www.hollywoodforever.com/
4. Obit, Linking Ring December 1942
5. http://www.ibmring21.org/famous.html
6. Cover Genii 1937 November
7. Obit Genii 1942 November
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 9, 2016 09:52AM)
He was a con man ... His name wasn't even Edward Saint. He exploited poor Bess Houdini to the maximum. While he and Bess were cohabiting here in Florida in 1932 he attempted to exploit the Kidnapping of the Lindberg Baby!!!!!(Under a different name) ... :bat: :firedevil: :bat: :firedevil: :bat: :firedevil: :bat:
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 9, 2016 09:58AM)
Even the IBM is perpetuating the "Story" of the 10 Seances ... ROTFLMAO .. so easily deceived or willingly deceptive .. ;)

"Mr. Saint was the primary driving force behind the now famous Houdini Seances and conducted them himself atop the Knickerbocker Hotel just off Hollywood Boulevard for over 10 years until Bess finally decided to put an end to the seances in 1936."

This is a complete falsehood......
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 9, 2016 03:19PM)
Slim King,
I am curious. It is likely we tend to believe the first things we learn until we change our minds. Why do you think Edward Saint exploited Bess Houdini to the maximum? That Saint attempted to exploit the kidnapping of the Lindbergh Baby (Under another name)? WHY the IBM [which I have yet to her from] are perpetuating lies about 10 years of seances and are easily deceived? and WHY
"Mr. Saint was NOT the primary driving force behind the now famous Houdini Seances and conducted them himself atop the Knickerbocker Hotel just off Hollywood Boulevard for over 10 years until Bess finally decided to put an end to the seances in 1936." It is likely you did not draw your conclusions from out of the air. Where do they come from? How did they originate? Where is your evidence? You seem to display strong feelings your conclusions are true. My I ask WHY?
Message: Posted by: RCP (Apr 9, 2016 05:14PM)
[quote]On Apr 7, 2016, miistermagico wrote:
My materials presented too much information. [/quote]

Mostly false......I hate to even call it information
Message: Posted by: landmark (Apr 9, 2016 05:36PM)
[quote]On Apr 7, 2016, RobertMarsi wrote:
Because Wikipedia is a biased, left-wing, atheist leaning news source. They're becoming more hated by people everyday. Any wonder why they are on the verge of Bankruptcy? They're always panhandling for money! [/quote]

Maybe they could get Rush Limbaugh to fund it.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 9, 2016 11:22PM)
Comment to self: There is a book entitled "Edward Saint ... or Sinner" By James J. Matthews. Perhaps I can obtain one to examine this puzzle deeper. I always welcome new info and surprises. I have discovered James J. Matthews gave a lecture on his book for the Magic Collectors Association in Fort Worth, Texas. (2004?) This sounds interesting.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 9, 2016 11:34PM)
[quote]On Apr 9, 2016, miistermagico wrote:
Comment to self: There is a book entitled "Edward Saint ... or Sinner" By James J. Matthews. Perhaps I can obtain one to examine this puzzle deeper. I always welcome new info and surprises. I have discovered James J. Matthews gave a lecture on his book for the Magic Collectors Association in Fort Worth, Texas. (2004?) This sounds interesting. [/quote]
I highly recommend you read this book for it's information and what is written "Between the lines".... ;) It's not easy to come by ... Perhaps you could borrow one. People protect Edward Saint because he's made them LOTS OF MONEY ... So they overlook the evil deeds that got him to that place....

You may like this play..

Houdini's Ghost.....

BTW ...Massimo Polidoro provides false information (lies) several times in his article ... he refuses to answer any questions I've emailed him about his misinformation ... Many others have perpetuated the lies in their pseudo=skeptical writings as well .... I'm sure he'll eventually say he didn't use due diligence when writing his paper.. Perhaps like Edward Saint he just did it for the money?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 10, 2016 12:16AM)
[quote]On Apr 9, 2016, miistermagico wrote:
Slim King,
I am curious. It is likely we tend to believe the first things we learn until we change our minds. Why do you think Edward Saint exploited Bess Houdini to the maximum? That Saint attempted to exploit the kidnapping of the Lindbergh Baby (Under another name)? WHY the IBM [which I have yet to her from] are perpetuating lies about 10 years of seances and are easily deceived? and WHY
"Mr. Saint was NOT the primary driving force behind the now famous Houdini Seances and conducted them himself atop the Knickerbocker Hotel just off Hollywood Boulevard for over 10 years until Bess finally decided to put an end to the seances in 1936." It is likely you did not draw your conclusions from out of the air. Where do they come from? How did they originate? Where is your evidence? You seem to display strong feelings your conclusions are true. My I ask WHY? [/quote]
Please find ANYONE who can prove there were Seances conducted by Authentic Spiritualistic Mediums seeking to contact Harry Houdini on behalf of Bess Houdini on Halloween of 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1932. 1933, 1034, or 1935. It is easy to find information on the successful Seance presided over by Arthur Ford in January of 1929, however no one can seem to find much of any evidence of any of the others and/or who, if anyone, presided over them.... It certainly wasn't at the Knickerbocker Hotel for 10 years..... since it didn't even open until 1929 ...... ROTFLMAO ... Maybe the IBM can explain that one ;)
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 10, 2016 05:55AM)
Speaking to a critical thinking friend who was alive during the time of the Lindbergh kidnapping and who said he remembered it well; I was told the book I had previously purchased "KIDNAP: The Story of the Lindbergh Case" by George Waller, Dial Press, New York, 1961, was the definitive study of the crime. It is an amazing book. As a gift I got him a copy of the book. He was delighted.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 10, 2016 07:06AM)
Supposedly the elegant Knickerbocker Hotel in NYC overlooking Times Square, with a beaux-arts facade dates from 1906 and is a minute's walk from Times Square- 42nd St subway station and a 13-minute walk from the Empire State Building. Not 1929.
Message: Posted by: jstreiff (Apr 10, 2016 08:40AM)
The final Houdini séance was conducted at the Hotel Knickerbocker in Hollywood according to Milt Larsen (personal communication).
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 10, 2016 10:02AM)
Thank you Elite user for your help and clarification.
According to the Wikipedia
Located at 1714 Ivar Avenue in Los Angeles, California, and designed by architect E.M. Frasier in Spanish Colonial Revival style, the historic hotel opened in June 1929.[Festivities to Mark Opening of Apartments. Los Angeles Times, June 16, 1929]. It catered to the region's nascent film industry, and is the site for some of Hollywood’s most famous dramatic moments. On Halloween 1936, Harry Houdini's widow held her tenth séance to contact the magician on the roof of the hotel.

According to USA Today Travel Tips: The Knickerbocker Hotel was first built as a luxury apartment building in 1925, but it was later converted to a hotel.

According to the Los Angeles Times:
The Hollywood Knickerbocker Hotel opened in 1925, the Knickerbocker was a luxury apartment building, only later to become a hotel.

It has a fascinating history of Hollywood events. Today it is an apartment house for senior citizens.
Message: Posted by: Joe Atmore (Apr 10, 2016 01:55PM)
Somewhere in my collection is an old Houdini seance photo with Crystal Dunninger and I believe Bess. Would have to dig it out. It was not from the "final" seance.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 10, 2016 03:34PM)
Thank you Joe Atmore. You may have added another piece to the puzzle. Nice to hear from you again.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 10, 2016 06:59PM)
"Saint was the primary driving force behind the Houdini Seances and conducted them himself atop the Knickerbocker Hotel just off Hollywood Boulevard for over 10 years until Bess finally decided to put an end them in 1936."

This is total balderdash!!!! It was all part of the media hype invented by Saint and perpetuated by those who would profit from it. I find it hysterical that you'd actually bill a Seance as the FINAL SEANCE before you knew the outcome ..ROTFLMAO!!!!! Had Houdini appeared and tap danced atop the floating tables... revealed the secret coded message (AGAIN) .. and spilled the beans on who in Hollywood was sleeping with who as they were cheating on someone else ... I hardly think it would have been the LAST SEANCE ... Besides .. There was no Spirit Medium or Spirit Guide present at the seance .. Kind of like trying to make a phone call with NO PHONE .. Such a joke ;)

It was a media stunt to get funding for "Religeous Racketeers" ... Even the "Live" recording was faked.

BTW .. It wasn't a hotel until 1929..ROTFLMAO
:clownjuggling: :clownjuggling: :clownjuggling: :clownjuggling:
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 11, 2016 06:13PM)
I think you could bill it as as The Last Seance if you had decided previously this would be the last.
Since 9 earlier seances had been failures there was a good chance this 10th seance would also be a failure.
IT WAS. I think it was a common practice to have family seances at that time in your home.
You did not require a guest medium.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 11, 2016 07:43PM)
There is no proof there were NINE other Seances. Do you somehow have information no one else has? Please present it if you do... I'd love to see it!!! ROTFLMAO.... Harry and Bess had agreed to use Spiritualist Mediums in their quest for Afterlife Communication. That's what their $10,000 prize was for .... It wasn't for HER to pretend to be a medium ... So funny ...... :dancing: :dancing: :dancing:
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 12, 2016 10:07PM)
Other séances held in New York during the Spring
Just like seances held today, the Final Houdini Seance was a mix of sincerity and self promotion. While Bess had spoken of their being a "compact" between her and her husband, there was never a time frame given, and the idea of a 10-year cut-off was probably invented for this seance. It also appears this was the first Houdini seance held on Halloween. Records of other seances held by Bess in New York show them taking place in the Spring.

http://www.wildabouthoudini.com/2014/10/halloween-1936-final-houdini-seance.html
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 12, 2016 10:17PM)
Professor Slim King: It looks like you already knew about the earlier séances. 12 Mar 2015

Professor Slim KingMarch 11, 2015 at 10:19 PM

Do you know where the other Seances were held and when?

John CoxMarch 12, 2015 at 9:15 AM

Only a few. And those I know of where held in the spring, not on Halloween. If Bess really did an annual seance, she did most of them privately.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 12, 2016 10:54PM)
Professor Slim King:
https://www.facebook.com/Professor-Slim-King-371120996393556/
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 13, 2016 12:45AM)
[quote]On Apr 12, 2016, miistermagico wrote:
Professor Slim King: It looks like you already knew about the earlier séances. 12 Mar 2015

Professor Slim KingMarch 11, 2015 at 10:19 PM

Do you know where the other Seances were held and when?

John CoxMarch 12, 2015 at 9:15 AM

Only a few. And those I know of where held in the spring, not on Halloween. If Bess really did an annual seance, she did most of them privately. [/quote]
Excellent ... Now you know I've done my homework! The very best Houdini authorities can't find any evidence that there were 10 seances on top of the Knickerbocker Hotel on every Halloween ... In fact they can't even find ANY others on Halloween!!!!!! And the authorities admit that the "Final" one was a hoax. There was no medium present ... Mrs. Houdini pretended to be one like she did with Harry when they first got started as fake mediums themselves. You can read about it in many of the Houdini books. Even one Houdini himself wrote.

So I'm very thankful that John Cox has been so truthful on the subject! No one can verify the statement you've made about the 10 mysterious seances on every Halloween on top of the Knickerbocker Hotel or anywhere else for that matter,,, ;)

You'd be best served to concentrate on the One and Only Seance that DID reveal the secret coded message between Harry and Bess. Arthur Ford was indeed the medium that successfully performed the Seance in January of 1929. Bess signed a very important document verifying it ....
Look here....

https://www.facebook.com/Houdinis-GHOST-973762336033877/?fref=ts
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 13, 2016 02:56AM)
No. I do not know you did your home work. I know you like to play foolish games. It is interesting the photos taken of Bess lying in bed reveal her head is all bandaged up. Likely from her fall down the stairs, as which historians claim. If I remember correctly these historians have claimed Bess was an alcoholic (and likely drunk when she fell). It is unlikely she was trying to commit suicide by falling down a flight of stairs. As far as I know from historians she made no other suicide attempts. How do you explain Bess' letters to Walter Winchell and Bernard M.L. Ernst? http://www.csicop.org/si/show/the_day_houdini_almost_came_back_from_the_dead.

I do not agree with you CSICOP, now the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, which has been supported by members Milborne Christopher, Martin Gardner, James Randi, James Alcock, Isaac Asimov and many others is a bunch of liars. I think they are sincere seekers of the truth. But of course I could be wrong. That is something I doubt you will ever say.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 13, 2016 07:33AM)
Bess Letter to Walter Winchell perfectly explains what happened. Arthur Ford gave her the correct message she had been waiting for. The CSICOP article you refer to has many many mistakes and downright misrepresentations. Her sworn statement and her letter to Winchell fully explain what happened ... The 16 word secret coded message was revealed through the medium Arthur Ford. She never denied it. She even told her lawyer not to attempt a lawsuit since he actually DID reveal the message ... It was big headlines!!!!

Look at them... HOUDINI PROVES SOUL IMMORTAL!!!!!!
https://www.facebook.com/Houdinis-GHOST-973762336033877/?fref=ts
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 13, 2016 10:00PM)
According to the paper itself it would seem this headline is puff for a theatrical play.
We’re in the business of PRESENTING THE TRUTH OF HARRY HOUDINI'S AFTERLIFE EXPERIMENT AND PRESENTING IT ON STAGE.
I see a line that states: "Later we will open the vault and prove it".
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 14, 2016 12:36AM)
It is an actual Headline from an actual News Paper. It was reported in hundreds of other papers also. Bess signed a legal document and sent Walter Winchell a letter confirming the truth of the Seance and how Arthur Ford relayed the secret coded message that she and her husband had agreed upon.... The afterlife experiment was a success!!!!! Bess and Harry had deposited the coded message in a vault to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the validity of the message ... And they did!!!!
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 14, 2016 09:32AM)
NIT PICK

8 Apr 16 12:17 am Slim King quote ”The problem here is
that she disclosed a NUMBER CODE... She made NO MENTION
of a letter code. The code she revealed was one they had
used to give the date of a coin. At no time did she
mention this as a letter code.

This is not true. The “secret code” had not been secret since
its publication, the previous year, on page 105 of
Houdini, His Life Story, the authorized biography written
by Harold Kellock and based on Bess’s “recollections and
documents.

Supposedly Ford’s message consisted of nine words
following “Rosabelle” formed the word Believe in this
manner: Answer (B), tell (E), pray-answer (L), look (I),
tell (E), answer-answer (V), tell (E).


8 Apr 16 12:17 am Slim King quote: In addition .. The
first word was ROSABELLE (No code) ... The second part
was coded with an Alphabetical Code .. 10 words spelling
out BELIEVE and [the last 5 words were given by Bess in
French] ... The entire code was a two way code of 16
words in French, English and an English code.

You are the only puzzler who states there were words in
French [the last 5 words were given by Bess in French]?
Why would Bess speak if the message was from her husband?
After Rosabelle there are actually only 9 code words
spelling out BELIEVE

13 Apr 16 07:33 am Slim King quote: Her sworn statement
and her letter to Winchell fully explain what happened
... The 16 word secret coded message was revealed through
the medium Arthur Ford.

In her letter to Winchell Bess never states that there
was a "16 word secret coded message".
The Day Houdini (Almost) Came Back from the Dead
Notes on a Strange World
Massimo Polidoro
Skeptical Inquirer Volume 36.2, March/April 2012
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 14, 2016 10:56AM)
It is entirely possible I miscounted the coded words and included ROSABELLE as one word (One regular word and 9 coded words..often referred to a ten code words ..My Bad) .. Then again .. there could have been SIX words in french given by Bess. (Depends how good at French you are and I'm horrid)
Houdini was a brilliant man. His Afterlife experiment included a TWO WAY code to assure him that his message had gotten through.

It's an amazing story hidden from the history books for so long!!!! I'm glad you are beginning to scratch the surface. Massimo Polidoro is just repeating misinformation he heard others repeat ...

If you'd feel better saying there were 15 words in English and French rather than 16 I'll be fine with that ...In any event .. It's a miracle that Arthur Ford would know them all.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (Apr 14, 2016 11:19AM)
Was Bess an alcoholic?
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 14, 2016 11:31AM)
I am afraid we are both repeating information we have gotten from others. We were not there. Nor does there seem to have been a voice recorder or an official stenographer. (As in the case of Leonora Piper. Statements Piper made seem to have been recorded by questioners later from her sitters and the sitters themselves. How much later we do not know). The greater one is distant from the events themselves the hazier they become.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 14, 2016 11:41AM)
It seems after Houdini died Bess hit the bottle. Depression can do that to a person. I do not know if anyone really knows she was an alcoholic. Houdini, himself, seems to have been a teetotaler. There is a story Houdini once tried to escape from a barrel some mean person had filled with beer. He was not pleased.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 14, 2016 01:07PM)
As time passes people tend to embellish stories.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 14, 2016 02:50PM)
3 of the best Houdini books are:
Houdini! The Career of Ehrich Weiss by Kenneth Silverman
Houdini: The Untold Story by Milbourne Christopher
A Magician Among the Spirits by Houdini
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 14, 2016 03:11PM)
Houdini fans may find Mina Crandon on the Wikipedia of interest
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 14, 2016 06:41PM)
[quote]On Apr 14, 2016, IAIN wrote:
Was Bess an alcoholic? [/quote]
Many have faintly said "Yes!", which brings this question to my mind ... Do alcoholics get better or worse without rehab?It seems that she and Edward Saint were at least drinking buddies if nothing else. ;)

Mr M ....I would suggest reading .. THE WITCH OF LIME STREET .. I have both the book and the audio ... Amazing story!!!!
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 14, 2016 06:46PM)
Best Houdini Web Page http://www.wildabouthoudini.com/

"John Cox has become a one-man aggregator of all Houdini
news on the web, as he creates original content, links to
the works of others, and exploits the power of social
media to spread the word far and wide. [He] has put
together a fascinating site for fans of Houdini and magic
history, and John is performing a service for us all by
going the extra mile, past those first few Google result
pages, to find the really obscure, undiscovered stuff."
- The Mandala, March/April 2012
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 14, 2016 07:01PM)
John Cox is awesome, yet he doesn't always dig deep enough and he often falls into ad hominem attacks rather than logical thought. But I still think he's a great guy!!!!
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 14, 2016 10:10PM)
Http://maudeadamsproductions.com/index.html
Jon Oliver Houdini's Only True Successor
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 14, 2016 10:40PM)
Let's get back to the subject here. Arthur Ford lived a good long life after the others seemed to drink themselves to death. Arthur himself was an admitted alcoholic who joined AA and struggled his entire life with addictions after his near fatal car wreck which resulted in his opiate addiction. He beat that but turned to alcohol to kill the remaining pain. It's an interesting but sad story. His sister lost her life in the accident. Despite what others have claimed ... Arthur Ford was never convicted or even arrested for fraud. He was the pastor of a church or on a mission field the majority of his life until he passed over in 1971.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 14, 2016 10:45PM)
Read the material on the sight.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 14, 2016 10:51PM)
When I attended Jon's Hand Cuff Performance Act and Lecture he traveled with Marie Blood.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 14, 2016 11:25PM)
Artur Ford was never convicted, charged or arrested for fraud!!!!!
Message: Posted by: morgaine_le_fey (Apr 15, 2016 04:13AM)
I love following this conversation!
Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd_bcDTuVAA

:lol: :yippee:
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 15, 2016 11:35AM)
Yes ..It's a very interesting subject. I'll be at Cassadaga tomorrow picking up some recordings made by Arthur Ford. His lectures were awesome.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 15, 2016 02:50PM)
Http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/ford.htm
An Arthur Ford Anthology Frank C. Tribbe editor $19.95
Writings By and About America's Sensitive of the Century
Introduction by William V. Rauscher

The legend continues. There will always be some people who are taught and convinced their soul will conquer death.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 15, 2016 07:56PM)
[quote]On Apr 15, 2016, miistermagico wrote:
Http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/ford.htm
An Arthur Ford Anthology Frank C. Tribbe editor $19.95
Writings By and About America's Sensitive of the Century
Introduction by William V. Rauscher

The legend continues. There will always be some people who are taught and convinced their soul will conquer death. [/quote]
This is an amazing book. I love it!!!! Do Spirits Return?
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 27, 2016 03:29PM)
The best story always wins.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 27, 2016 08:38PM)
[quote]On Apr 27, 2016, miistermagico wrote:
The best story always wins. [/quote]
I think you'll LOVE Bess Houdini's REAL story..... She claimed that Spirits do return....
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 27, 2016 11:51PM)
Http://www.wildabouthoudini.com/2013/01/the-margery-files-inside-man.html
Notice:
Here Bess wrote TWO letters about the Houdini messages.
One on 9 Jan 1929:
Here she stated that Arthur Ford delivered the correct
message pre-arranged between Mr. Houdini and myself.

And another letter on 11 May 1934 that said:
I solemnly swear I have never, at any time or place, received a legitamate spiritualistic or psychic message from my late husband, Harry Houdini.

Notice the 1929 letter is hand printed stating Arthur Ford delivered the correct message pre-arranged between MR. HOUDINI and myself.

The 1934 letter has been typed and here Eric Weisz, later Erich Weiss, or Harry Weiss is called MY LATE HUSBAND, HARRY HOUDINI instead of in the earlier letter 1929 where he is MR.HOUDINI.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 28, 2016 03:42AM)
Yes ... This proves my point 100%. She also wrote a fantastic letter to Walter Winchell. Did you forget about that one? He published it for all to see.
https://www.facebook.com/Houdinis-GHOST-973762336033877/?fref=ts
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 28, 2016 02:27PM)
It would seem (to me though I may be mistaken) that between 9 Jan 1929 and 11 May 1934 Bess Houdini had accepted the coded message from Arthur Ford, but later decided she had never at any time or place received a legitimate spiritualistic or psychic message from her late husband, Harry Houdini. It is likely either Bess had forgotten her 9 Jan 1929 letter, or after a possible falling out with Arthur Ford or after a later gathering of more evidence or opinions from others had a change of heart. It is suspected Bess continued to contact her husband during some summers seances in New York. Then Bess, Edward Saint, and others held "The Final Seance" 31 Oct 1936, even if it was only a great publicity stunt. Supposedly Bess admitted, "Ten years was long enough to wait for any man".
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 28, 2016 03:16PM)
You missed the entire point... Saint and Bess were trying to sell a MOVIE ... That's why they were living in a small bungalow in Hollywood. Saint promised Bess a million dollars if she was in the movie Religious Racketeers.
Bess Houdini's original statement in 1929 was witnessed by several important people. Her later release was witnessed by Edward Saint, her live in lover, and that wasn't even his real name. So it wasn't even legal ..ROTFLMAO!!! She certainly didn't wait much more than three years before Saint got his claws into her and the remnants of the Houdini fortune.

BTW ... The movie failed ... It was booted out of New York and they had to change the name and peddle it elsewhere...

In the meantime Arthur Ford toured the world as the greatest medium of the 20th century.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 29, 2016 06:59AM)
I am curious magic. Slim, what is the source of your statement "Saint promised Bess a million dollars if she was in the movie Religious Racketeers"? Why do you think Saint and Bess were living in a small bungalow in Hollywood to sell the movie? Weren't they supposed to be lovers?
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 29, 2016 06:16PM)
Supposedly according to author James J. Matthews, Dr. Edward Saint ..or Sinner. Bess Houdini and Edward Saint moved to Hollywood, California in 1934. The film Religious Racketeers was shown in 1938. http://www.wildabouthoudini.com/2012/01/watch-entire-religious-racketeers.html The film can be seen here. Enjoy!
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 29, 2016 09:07PM)
Edward Saint wasn't a Dr........... Edward Saint wasn't even his name. He never made it past grade school. He made a living selling the autographs and other things of Harry Houdini that he took from Bess. I purchased the movie. Such fun. James Mathews was prompted to write his book after he'd learned that Saint wanted to sell a magazine a private story about Bess not to be published until after she died.... How low can you go!!!!!???? Cashing in on an old lady even BEFORE she died ... As Karma would have it, even though he was 20 years younger .. He died first!
Message: Posted by: Leo H (Apr 30, 2016 10:01AM)
I don't think Saint took anything from Bess that she did not approve of. You see Slim King, this road goes in two directions. Saint gave Bess male companionship, and this is not a commodity easily obtained by older women. I also believe that the proceeds obtained from the sale of Houdini items was shared by both of them. Saint was not a con artist who swindled Bess and then ran for the hills.

Saint also kept Houdini's name alive and out in the public as well as trying to get Hollywood to make a film of his life. Houdini is still remembered to this day, and I believe Saint at the very least a hand in that.

Was Saint a saint? Who is?
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 30, 2016 10:29AM)
I agree Leo H that Saint kept the name alive. It's the only way he and Bess could make money. Her career failed and evidently so did his (You may see his failure in 1932 posing as a psychic here in Florida) Saint flim flammed poor old Bessie and sold what was left after the stock market crash of 1929. Bess hadn't really gotten that much to start with. It was split amongst the family and he gave the bulk of his library to the government. After the market tanked she had little or nothing. Saint swooped in... He was loved by the magic community of course. Living off the spoils of Houdini'd death he lived a good life hanging with the Hollywood magicians and writing for them in his spare time .. Since he didn't have a regular job.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (Apr 30, 2016 04:21PM)
Bess Houdini and Bernard Ernst

When it became known that Ford was using a copy of Bess’s signed statement in some of his advertisements, Bernard M.L. Ernst, Houdini’s and then Bess’s lawyer, saw the possibility of a lawsuit against Ford. In reply, Bess wrote to him:

I wish to say that I did sign the letter. . . . I did not say that I believed that the message came through spiritual aid or that I believed in spiritualism. I did say the words I heard were the words I expected to hear, etc. . . . I had a copy of the original letter I wrote to him somewhere but I am too ill to look for it and I really don’t care. I never said I believed the letter came from Houdini. I never said I believed in spiritualism and I still say the same. I don’t care what Sir Arthur Conan Doyle or Will Goldston say or do. I don’t and never did believe the message genuine nor did I believe in spiritualism. I will write you clearly later if you will just give me a chance to get well. I don’t care what you do to or about Mr. Ford.

Ernst didn’t bring Ford to court, but the medium was, nonetheless, expelled from the United Spiritualist League of New York. At least for a short while; shortly afterward he was reinstated “on the ground of insufficient proof” as to his possible fraud.

Bess disavowed Ford’s message countless times. “There was a time,” she told an interviewer later in her life, “when I wanted intensely to hear from Harry. I was ill, both physically and mentally, and such was my eagerness that spiritualists were able to prey upon my mind and make me believe that they had really heard from him.”

On March 19, 1930, Bess also asked Ernst to issue a statement reading thus: “For three years she had sought to penetrate beyond the grave and communicate with her husband, but had now renounced faith in such a possibility: she denied that any of the mediums presented the clew [clue] by which she was to recognize a legitimate message.” [This too indicates there may have been earlier seances before the Final Seance 31 Oct 1936]
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 30, 2016 07:40PM)
So there was NO LAWSUIT!!!! Bess and her lawyer knew they had no case. "I WISH TO SAY THAT I DID SIGN THE LETTER." You failed to mention just WHEN this came about??????

The Spiritualists held a hearing in which they proved that Rea Jueau was lying and saw no reason to punish Arthur Ford. Rea changed her name and fled New York (Fellow newsmen joked that she refused to commit suicide) She had worked for the (Porn o graphic).. The lowest scandal rag that New York ever hosted ... They later folded under $11 million in lawsuits.
Message: Posted by: Leo H (Apr 30, 2016 08:01PM)
One can argue that by swooping in and selling off the Houdini treasures, Saint kept himself and Bess on the gravy train. He did her a favor in that sense by handling the liquidation of the Houdini items and converting that to energy. Bess didn't allow Saint to sell off every last Houdini item. There were treasures such as the Mirror cuffs and other items that she hung on to.

Sure, Bess could have shacked up with a more successful man, but on the other hand, she may not have found anyone in that category interesting. According to her niece Marie Blood, she often went out dancing with some young exotic stud not too long after HH's death. Quite possible that Bess preferred younger men; a sort of early 20th century version of a cougar.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Apr 30, 2016 11:06PM)
Saint was an opportunist. He took advantage of an old 'Cougar"... He even drug her into his 1932 scam with the Lindberg baby....
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (May 1, 2016 07:34PM)
According to "Dr. Edward Saint ...or Sinner" by James J. Matthews, The "Carney" years 1916-1933. "His [Saint's] correspondence would indicate Dr. Sesrad [a.k.a. Edward Saint] was with the [Johnny J.] Jones Circus from 1927 to 1933, which overlaps his meeting with Bess Houdini".[1930]. Saint likely billed myself as "The Wonder Man," Sees All-Knows All-Tells All, The International Mentalist, SESRAD, Psychic Scientist and Crystal Gazer. Saint's legal name seems to have been Charles David Meyers. It was (and is) not unusual for entertainers to have multiple identities. If I remember correctly Tony Curtis is a.k.a. Herman Schwartz. Troyal Garth Brooks is known as Garth Brooks. Issur Danielovitch is Kirk Douglas. Norma Jean Mortenson became Marilyn Monroe.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 1, 2016 08:03PM)
Lot's of people change their name ONCE!!! ;) .. But having a dozen different names has a much more sinister appeal to the crooks of this world .. He was never a Dr. He was a con man. he conned Bess Houdini. They were drinking buddies at best ..rotflmao
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (May 7, 2016 10:30PM)
JAMY IAN SWISS REVIEW OF:
The Houdini Code Mystery; A Spirit Secret Solved
An unpublished review from October 2000

The Houdini Code Mystery; A Spirit Secret Solved
By William V. Rauscher

I cannot in recent memory recall a more dramatic
publishing contrast as that which exists between the
beautiful production values of this book (including an
exquisite dustjacket) and the exceedingly mediocre
content contained within. Easily the worst volume in the
catalog of both the author’s and publisher’s efforts to
date, this qualifies as the poorest attempt at a book of
magic “history” that I have come across in the six years
of writing this column. Given recent published
correspondence with the publisher, the thought occurs
that some may allege this review to be motivated by other
than the mere contents of the material. Allow me to
assure all and sundry that nothing could be further from
the truth.

The author is so embalmed by his own prejudices and
agendas it is hard to itemize them all here, but his
multiple operative premises in this text can perhaps be
best summarized as follows: The villain of this work is
Harry Houdini, about whom you may for the moment draw
your own conclusions concerning his qualifications for
villainhood (there is certainly little in the pages of
this book sufficiently reliable as to assist you in
making any informed judgment). The hero is Arthur Ford,
an acknowledged (including by our author!) con man and
liar who regularly faked mediumship, but whom the author
insists actually did possess the gift of genuine
mediumship, despite his acknowledged tendency toward
“cheating” (the author’s term) – but who didn’t use his
actual mediumistic in the particular case under
discussion. Oh yes, to be complete, I should also mention
that the author’s other operative premise seems to be the
news – apparently by equal measure both astonishing and
terribly frustrating to him – that some of what the
general public thinks it knows about Harry Houdini might
not have actually be true – indeed might even qualify as
myth – and if we just clear up some of those details, and
paint Harry Houdini as the human he actually was, then
there wouldn’t be a myth anymore (and the world would
finally embrace Howard Thurston – or, to your layman
friends, “Howard WHO?” – as the all around great guy and
greatest magician of all time that Bill Rauscher and John
Booth insist he was). In other words, if folks would just
understand that George Washington didn’t chop down that
*** cherry tree, nobody would ever talk about him again,
and he would go the way of Tiny Tim in the cultural
zeitgeist.

Now, let me ask you: Is it just me, or does all that seem
just a little odd? Well, that’s just the start of it.
What we have here is essentially 190 pages of character
assassination (if there was an antonym for hagiography,
this book would be the defining model), starting with
Harry Houdini, continuing on to Bess Houdini (repeatedly
referred to by the author as a “lush,” and described at
one point – this is the author speaking, not a source –
as “a lush who could be duped by a bright 10-year old.”
That sentence might as well be taken to summarize the
author’s intentions as an objective reporter, much less
as an historian or researcher. Then again, you could just
about throw this book on the table like the I-Ching and
open to any page where you could find an equivalent lapse
in quality. And by the way, the character assassination
does not end there; after thoroughly ripping over those
who can no longer defend themselves, we even get a few
healthy pot shots at the living, late in the book, as the
author apparently settles some scores with some folks he
describes as “friends” – and do let’s ask Larry Weeks if
it’s true that with friends like these, who needs
enemies?

The fact is, there is very little content indeed in this
book, save for the final chapter of about eight pages, in
which the author describes an alternate theory concerning
the Houdini code “mystery,” courtesy of a man named Jay
Abbott, whom the author met later in Abbott’s life, and
who knew Bess Houdini and her late-in-life companion,
Edward Saint. Abbott offered an alternate explanation as
to how con man Arthur Ford might have obtained some of
the information he transmitted in the notorious Houdini
“message” – a theory, by the way, which the author
declines to embrace! This information, such as it is, was
aptly summarized in an excellent article about Beatrice
Houdini by David Charvet and which appeared in the
October 1995 issue of MAGIC magazine (the locating of
which could well save you the cost and pain of attempting
to read this book).

The book would be infuriating if it wasn’t downright
hilarious, dripping with howlers from virtually every
other page. When the Houdini message comes through, we
are told that Houdini gets more press than he ever
received in his lifetime; the sentiment is ludicrous when
you consider that Houdini was not only regularly front
page news in his lifetime, but sometimes consumed the
entire front page, banner headline, photographs, and all.
The author scratches his head in wonderment at why major
newspapers, including The New York Times, would address
the issue of the veracity of the Houdini message,
insisting that it was too trivial to be considered news;
yet only a fool could miss the answer that lies in front
of anyone reading the actual news coverage, because in
fact the simple and obvious explanation was that exposing
the phony religion of spiritualism, and Harry Houdini’s
perspective on and role in that issue, was indeed
considered legitimate news of the first order.

The author is not only unqualified to make the harsh if
naïve judgments he so cavalierly offers (he appears to
suggest that owning a copy of an outdated psychiatric
reference work qualifies him to make frequent psychiatric
diagnoses in the course of the text); he is also self-
righteous, managing to get his blue nose clearly out of
joint over the possibility that Harry and Bess might
never have been legally married (a point he labors
mightily to prove but fails to do so), along with Bess’s
later unmarried involvement with Edward Saint. In between
his vituperative (and some might say mean-spirited)
name-calling of Houdini, Bess, skeptics, the enemies of
parapsychology, the enemies of religion, and just about
everyone else mentioned excepting his hero, the con man
Arthur Ford, he even assembles an entire chapter of
similar rants from an assortment of magicians who –
wonder of wonders – didn’t like Houdini. (If magicians
would go on record, wouldn’t you love to see a chapter
like this consisting of comments about David Copperfield
from his contemporaries? Consider the implications.) Of
course, not only does this kind of material not rate as
serious research or substantive content, but none of this
material can be trusted either, as a quick check of the
Servais LeRoy excerpt will demonstrate. Interestingly,
one of the high points for me of the recent Servais LeRoy
biography, which I so highly recommended in my review in
the June issue, was the excerpts in the back of the book
from LeRoy’s journals consisting of his comments about
other magicians of the time. Included in that segment is
a superb commentary on LeRoy’s colleague – and friend! –
Harry Houdini. In what comprises one of the fairest and
yet most personal descriptions I have ever come across,
LeRoy describes his friend, frankly acknowledging both
Houdini’s foibles and his strengths. It is a fascinating
and illuminating piece. In these pages, however, only the
single most ***ing paragraph, taken out of several pages
of context, is reproduced. Any claim of the author’s
fairness and objectivity is thus demolished by the second
chapter.

The fact is, almost everything within the pages of this
book, when it is not mere rant and rail, is mere
supposition and speculation. There are no answers, no
solutions – indeed, little of merit or interest to all
but those who must desperately collect all and sundry
that is related to Houdini, and thus the publisher,
wisely keeping the printing to 500 pieces, will doubtless
sell out, if they have not already done so. Perhaps the
most telling sentence is to be found in the promotional
blurb on the rear panel of the dustjacket, in which the
book is aptly compared to Houdini’s notorious text, The
Unmasking of Robert-Houdin. That book’s contents are not
taken seriously as responsible or accurate historical
content by even Houdini’s most supportive fans, and in
that fact only, the two books certainly warrant
comparison. Of course, a century from now, history will
remain fascinated by the myth and the man that was Harry
Houdini, while this book at hand (and doubtless its
author) will have long been mercifully forgotten. The great irony is that the author posits that there are
people who should perhaps be deprogrammed from the cult
of Houdini, when in fact, it is the author himself who
seems unhealthily obsessed
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 7, 2016 11:30PM)
Wow!! You just cut and pasted something that claims Edward Saint and Bess Houdini WERE NOT MARRIED!!!!!
? He is also self- righteous, managing to get his blue nose clearly out of
joint over the possibility that Harry and Bess might
never have been legally married (a point he labors
mightily to prove but fails to do so), along with Bess’s
later unmarried involvement with Edward Saint."

By the way .....Jamie Ian Smith can't prove Bess held seances every Halloween for 10 years (Since he has failed to provide any evidence at all) He also states that Arthur Ford was a con man although Ford was never convicted, prosecuted or even arrested for such a crime. In fact, Ford remained a Minister in good standing until the day he passed over in 1971. :angel:

Check this out!!!
http://www.wildabouthoudini.com/2016/05/watch-houdini-doyle-episode-1-for-free.html?showComment=1462680195416#c7040353702328851119
Message: Posted by: Sardonicus (May 8, 2016 05:54AM)
Slim King:

Who's "Jamie Ian Smith"? :rotf:

In the article Swiss says "The hero is Arthur Ford, an acknowledged (including by our author!) con man and liar who regularly faked mediumship". He's saying that the author of the work being reviewed admits Ford's misdoings. The author, William V. Rauscher, is pro-Ford...and even he agrees that Ford at times faked his abilities.

That makes him, in the eyes of Swiss, the author and I'll include myself just for fun, a con man and a liar. We can all name other examples of people that fit those definitions but haven't been convicted of...what? Being entertainers? Who's going to charge them, and with what crime? His clients seem to have gotten what they wanted and/or paid for. There are complications to that, to be sure...but they can easily be accounted for. All it says is that, like so many modern psychics and spoon benders, he got away with it...in the eyes of the law, at least. Perhaps Ford never was run through the criminal justice system; J.Z. Knight hasn't been either. But perhaps you're a disciple there, too. Insert your own non-convicted "con person" in her place, if indeed you accept the notion.

As for the rest of us, we can form our own opinions and act accordingly. Legal entanglements have little to do with the issue of his malfeasance. Innocent until proven guilty is a standard that applies in legal settings; personal judgement prevails outside the courts. I, for example, don't go to psychics for advice and I bend my own spoons. Would you have let Michael Jackson baby-sit your kids? (On second thought, don't answer that.)

So claiming no convictions, prosecutions or arrests doesn't necessarily imply all that you'd have the readers believe, no matter how often you repeat it. You don't have to be convicted to be a con artist, and a lack of prosecution in these particular instances carries less weight than you imply. It's merely a smoke screen, and a thin one at that.

Furthermore, if Wikipedia is accurate in this instance, Ford was ordained a minister in Disciples of Christ, which to my understanding lets in everybody. Not that that's a bad thing...but it indicates that they wouldn't have removed his ecclesiastical authority based on his spiritualistic claims, which incidentally he began to make -after- his ordination.

Wiki goes on to state that he later served "as pastor of a Spiritualist church".

What they fail to mention is that he founded that church himself. Good standing indeed.

Hardly the ringing endorsements that you make them out to be.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (May 8, 2016 12:53PM)
BRAD HENDERSON REVIEW:
Houdini Code Mystery--A Spirit Secret Solved
by William Rauscher
Official Review
December 14th, 2002 6:50pm
Reviewed by Brad Henderson
I am a huge fan of the work Mike Caveney has produced through his Magic Words publishing house. Many obscure and unknown performers, and some more well known ones, have been profiled in intelligent and revealing ways for which all students of magic should be grateful.

It was interesting therefore to see perhaps the most written about magical performer, Houdini, featured in one of the titles. To be specific, this book by Rev. William Rauscher explores the mystery of the Houdini Code; the alleged transmission delivered by medium Arthur Ford which proved “undeniably” that Houdini had returned in spirit form. It is the “undeniable” aspect of that claim which Rauscher addresses.

First, the good points. As of all of Caveney’s productions, this book is lovely. Well bound, well illustrated, a good heft, it’s a first rate product from the publishing standards. The contents however, are another story.

When it comes to the Houdini Code mystery itself, I think Rauscher could have informed us as to what it was, and provided his theories as to how it was accomplished, in a handful of pages. Though many of Rauscher’s digressions (the book seems to be one big digression) are interesting, I feel the reader may be getting something other than promised by the title.

We learn that other magicians did not like Houdini, not an uncommon fact, we learn that Houdini could be ruthless, again a trait having been discussed many times before, and we learn that he may have been impotent, a new fact for me, but hardly having anything to do with the spirit world.

Specifically, I take issue with Rauscher’s presentation of the facts. For example, in his lengthy chapter on how others saw Houdini, he presents a number of performers and gives their insights. Sometimes, however, he cities people that never knew Houdini and only related what others told them. He also includes those other people. For example, he has George Johnstone relate how Harry Blackstone Sr. felt, and he has a segment featuring Harry himself. It seems as if Rauscher is trying to overwhelm us with authorities who support his claims, when in fact, the numbers of those qualified to make comment are fewer than portrayed.

Also, Rauscher makes habit of mentioning letters and other source documents which are “in his collection” or in a “private collection.” While there is nothing wrong with this, I think in the interest of academic honesty these documents should be reproduced so we the readers can see that they DO exist, and they DO say what the author is claiming. And when the author is deducing something based on these hidden evidences, we should be allowed to see if we agree with his conclusions.

Finally, though the book reads well, I found myself not liking Rauscher, our guide through this journey. Far too often are we met with self-aggrandizing statements which laud the author’s relationship with various authorities. For example, we are treated to the inscription in one of Rauscher’s books which was given to him by someone who knew Houdini. Though I’m sure I would be equally proud of having such a title in my library, I don’t see any point in quoting it and rubbing everyone else’s nose in the fact that it indeed is not in ours, particularly as it contributed nothing to the case of the Houdini Code per se.

Finally, what of the books conclusions? Well, if you want to read the book, you might not want to read this next bit. Basically, Rauscher’s revelation comes down to having met one man, Jay Abbott, who knew Ford, the medium, and Bessie Houdini. Abbott claimed that Ford got a glimpse of Bessie’s ring, and from that figured out the code. How did Abbott get this information? Bessie told him that’s what she thought must have happened. An interesting theory, and one that I’ve heard kicked around before (even one layperson I know related this story to me), but hardly earth shattering.

So, should you buy this book? If you love Houdini, want to know some eclectic bits of information, collect books, or want the inside scoop on what it really took to become the self proclaimed king of magic, then yes. If you really want to get to the bottom of one of the greatest spiritualist mysteries extant, then don’t. You would be sadly disappointed.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (May 8, 2016 04:05PM)
To the best of my knowledge Reverend Peter Popoff was, and is probably still, a con man although he has never been convicted, prosecuted or even arrested for such a crime, even after magician James Randi exposed Popoff. There are good and bad even among the clergy.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 8, 2016 05:06PM)
Yes- Popoff is still out there doing bogus healings and presenting electronic Q&A as messages from God.

The fact of the matter is that most frauds in the mediumistic or psychic fields never get charged or punished in any way. That's primarily because they get ordained by fringe "churches," thus allowing them to claim "religious freedom" should the need arise.
Message: Posted by: Sardonicus (May 8, 2016 05:51PM)
He's still at it, and making millions. There's a video online from a year or two ago that seems to show him using a shill in the audience at one of his faith healing events. It should be easy enough to find for those interested. But do we dare criticize Popoff? After all, he once cured a man of uterine cancer. He may have friends in high places after all.

If you're going to look for faith healer videos, one of the best of them (in this reviewer's opinion) can be found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNCR6PZ4-oA where Robert Tilton (between outbursts of speaking in tongues) claims "We've seen midgets grow!" The very best part is at the end. This one is not to be missed, and has been my favorite for quite some time. I give it 5 stars.

And naturally he too has never been arrested, prosecuted or convicted.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 8, 2016 09:14PM)
Had Arthur Ford been convicted of fraud you'd be all over it ... But he never was... Double standard much? :sun:
Magicians hated Ford since he destroyed Thurston in a debate at Carnegie Hall.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=581615&forum=32
Message: Posted by: Sardonicus (May 8, 2016 10:33PM)
You have a very strange understanding of certain phrases, I've noticed. It's quite telling. And you ignored the previous posts made about him. Even more telling.

I admit though, I'd have ignored them too if I were in your shoes. :rolleyes:

No one would be all over it because basically, no one cares. If a criminal history of his suddenly turned up, you'd no doubt make some outlandish assertions in an attempt to nullify this new exposure. You would carry on as before, only with the added benefit of claiming that he was a victim of injustice to boot. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me you'd drop your defense of him if an old court docket legally proving his guilt was discovered in a dusty file somewhere.

He's been exposed as a fraud, he's now dead, and no one cares. Accept it. This is serious advice...you're banging your head against a brick wall. It'll feel so much better when you stop.
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (May 8, 2016 10:35PM)
Thank you for fulfilling my expectations with a non sequitor.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 9, 2016 01:16AM)
[quote]On May 8, 2016, Sardonicus wrote:
You have a very strange understanding of certain phrases, I've noticed. It's quite telling. And you ignored the previous posts made about him. Even more telling.

I admit though, I'd have ignored them too if I were in your shoes. :rolleyes:

No one would be all over it because basically, no one cares. If a criminal history of his suddenly turned up, you'd no doubt make some outlandish assertions in an attempt to nullify this new exposure. You would carry on as before, only with the added benefit of claiming that he was a victim of injustice to boot. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me you'd drop your defense of him if an old court docket legally proving his guilt was discovered in a dusty file somewhere.

He's been exposed as a fraud, he's now dead, and no one cares. Accept it. This is serious advice...you're banging your head against a brick wall. It'll feel so much better when you stop. [/quote]
Where has he been exposed as a fraud ... By calling him a fraud does that mean he's been exposed??? REALLY???? ..rotflmao :dancing:

Where were all the lawsuits as he toured the world claiming to be the "Real Deal" that brought forth the Houdini message for over FOURTY TWO YEARS!!!!!

Even Bess and Saint failed to bring legal action ;)
Message: Posted by: Sardonicus (May 9, 2016 01:39AM)
You have access to all of the materials that I do, and thus you know the answer to your question. You simply refuse to accept the evidence.

Which of course begs the question, why? What has made you such a fan of Arthur Ford? Are you banking on his claim of contacting Houdini as the ultimate proof that there's life after death? Is that what this is all about? I really believe you really believe. It's too bad; if you were merely a troll, I could at least understand you.

As for the rest of your post, it's been shown to be nonsensical. Really, I believe you can do better. :)
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 9, 2016 08:27AM)
So you have no proof at all that Arthur Ford was a con man? Nothing? Just the fact that you claim he is?
I'm not buying an age old Ad Hominem attack with no basis in fact. I can guarantee much more research than you obviously!!!
https://www.facebook.com/Houdinis-GHOST-973762336033877/?fref=ts
Message: Posted by: Sardonicus (May 9, 2016 11:36AM)
Re-read my post and then (if you care to) try again.

My first sentence above, "You have access to all of the materials that I do, and thus you know the answer to your question." addresses every single sentence in your reply. You addressed nothing.

And by the way, I maintain that your assertion of ad hominem on my part is an incorrect usage. There's no logical fallacy here. I'm not attacking the man rather than the argument, because in this case the man IS the argument. Ford himself is the topic, and it's him that I've called a fraud.

You can argue if you'd like that it's still ad hominem, and in turn I'll point out the fact that ad hominem isn't always fallacious anyway.

I see this as as heads, I win...tails, you lose.

I'm still curious about your support for this guy. I'm even more curious about why you decline to answer the question.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 9, 2016 03:15PM)
Sardonicus ... What was your former Café name?
Prove Arthur Ford was a fraud as you claim. I believe you've failed just as bess Houdini and Edward Saint did. They were forced to take back their movie"Religious Racketeers" and re-release it elsewhere....under a different name.... True con man style.

HOUDINI PROVES SOUL IMMORTAL ... headlines from January 9th 1929!!!!!
https://www.facebook.com/Houdinis-GHOST-973762336033877/?fref=ts
Message: Posted by: Sardonicus (May 9, 2016 03:43PM)
I have no former Café name. I've lurked, and read hundreds of posts...but I've never been here as a member before now. Why? Do I remind you of someone?

And as you've dodged every question of mine, why should I answer yours? (Even though I already have, albeit obliquely.) This hardly seems fair, Slim. Give a little to get a little. Or don't.

What's your motivation? :worry:
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 9, 2016 04:43PM)
I'm not sure what you are unclear on. What is your question? I'm sure I can logically help you out. What claims are you making again? Let's please be clear this time. ;)
The thread is about Arthur Ford ... a fellow Floridian who is respected greatly here in Florida, especially in Cassadaga and the surrounding areas.
Message: Posted by: Sardonicus (May 9, 2016 08:11PM)
You continue to answer -nothing-. No original thought, no discussion, no flow of information or ideas...just a relentless and ad nauseam one-trick pony show. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but not any longer.

I've always suspected you were merely a troll; now I know for sure.

It's my fault for trying, but then as I said...benefit of the doubt.

The field is yours, my friend.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (May 9, 2016 09:04PM)
"On the surface, Cassadaga resembles a Florida Mayberry. Set back in the backwoods between Daytona and Orlando, the little “Psychic Capital of the World,” has long been a sanctuary for mediums, healers, psychics, and just plain freaks."
https://www.vice.com/read/inside-cassadaga
Message: Posted by: Randwill (May 9, 2016 09:14PM)
[quote]On May 9, 2016, miistermagico wrote:
"On the surface, Cassadaga resembles a Florida Mayberry. Set back in the backwoods between Daytona and Orlando, the little “Psychic Capital of the World,” has long been a sanctuary for mediums, healers, psychics, and just plain freaks."
https://www.vice.com/read/inside-cassadaga [/quote]
Another way of saying, "...a sanctuary for frauds, crooks, the self-deluded and just plain freaks."
Message: Posted by: Sardonicus (May 9, 2016 09:18PM)
So, there's more to the statement "who is respected greatly...especially in Cassadaga" than meets the eye. It's a bit ***ing, and it slipped right by me.

The "Psychic Capital of the World" title is interesting. I would have thought Sedona, AZ had more support for that claim.

Thanks for the link. It was very interesting.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 9, 2016 10:54PM)
I've purchased some of Arthur Fords sermons at Cassadaga (Audio recordings). The restaurant in the Hotel makes the best Cassadaga Calamari Salad in the world! It's a fun bar too! If you read the article you'll see I play both sides of the street. The Hotel side is Awesome and Fun while the bookstore side is Authentic and Deeply Spiritual. I have friends who work both sides. Edward Saint claimed to have gone to Cassadaga many times (He and Bess were shacked up not far from there) Saint claimed he'd bamboozled the mediums there with his magic tricks. (Hidden fleas he says)
Cassadaga and Lake Helen share a graveyard. It's where the Devil's Chair is located. My good friend Charlie Carlson, the author of Weird Florida, had written about it before his passing.

You can see a pic of it here.
https://www.facebook.com/973762336033877/photos/a.973765099366934.1073741827.973762336033877/1079715858771857/?type=3&theater
Message: Posted by: Sardonicus (May 10, 2016 01:19AM)
[quote]On May 9, 2016, Sardonicus wrote:
So, there's more to the statement "who is respected greatly...especially in Cassadaga" than meets the eye. It's a bit ***ing, and it slipped right by me.
[/quote]

What do you know? I got bleeped. I realize it's crass to respond to your own post, but perhaps this calls for an exception.

I didn't think my word, which can be defined as "strongly indicative of guilt", was naughty...but I guess that's not my call. But why is the use of Smart *** deck allowed (I self-censored) but a more innocuous word such as mine gets nailed? I can point to a thread where a user complains that the software won't allow him to use the j. a. phrase for a donkey...but the Smart *** gets through. I've seen the P-word for one example, (there are more) and those words seem to be allowed based on context, which the automated censor can't take into account. A master list of banned words which includes my somewhat obscure one would surely catch these other examples. And if my word was caught because it had the four letters of the d word in it, how was Dougini able to evade being bleeped merely by placing a piece of punctuation in front of each of his bad words? I assume (pun intended) that he eventually paid the price.

I'm not complaining; I just don't understand how the system works. I don't mind rules; I just like to be able to understand them. They're easier to follow that way.

I didn't even realize that the Café automatically censored certain words until now. I'm aware of this statement from the Café's Etiquette section: "Posts which use profanity will be deleted. No exceptions." Based on what I've seen slip by, I just assumed that we self-censored and the bad examples I've noticed had just slipped past management.

Another oddity is that there are three asterisks in my censored word, when there ought to be four.

And lastly, I really have no intention of hijacking or diverting the thread. But every other seemingly appropriate forum or thread where I looked to post this is locked. Maybe I just missed something, in which case I offer my apologies, and I'd actually appreciate this post being moved to a more suitable location if possible. In fact, I'm counting on it.
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (May 10, 2016 02:44PM)
OBJECTIVITY
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 11, 2016 07:17AM)
My first visit to Florida was to Titusville, Arthur Fords home town. He is loved by many Floridians. By defeating Thurston in the debate at Carnegie Hall and "Cracking" the Houdini Code, he has been despised by many pseudo skeptical types in the magic community. Arthur toured the world as the Real Deal for over 40 years and no magician could best him. No lawyer could stop him. No one could ever expose him. Those who claim to are pulling your leg ;) ... On the flip side .. Dr. Edward Saint was a total fraud. That wasn't even his real name, and he certainly was never a doctor !!!!
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (May 14, 2016 07:13PM)
Seances Each Year
"Every year on the anniversary his death [Houdini] she
[Bess Houdini] held a seance at Payson Avenue, attended by quite a few well-known magicians."
Appendix: Recollections of Harry and Bess Houdini by Marie Hinson Blood
Houdini!!! The Career of Erich Weiss by Kenneth Silverman,
Harper Collins Publishers, 1996, page 428
Bess Houdini lived at 67 Payson Avenue in Inwood.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 14, 2016 08:21PM)
[quote]On May 14, 2016, miistermagico wrote:
Seances Each Year
"Every year on the anniversary his death [Houdini] she
[Bess Houdini] held a seance at Payson Avenue, attended by quite a few well-known magicians."
Appendix: Recollections of Harry and Bess Houdini by Marie Hinson Blood
Houdini!!! The Career of Erich Weiss by Kenneth Silverman,
Harper Collins Publishers, 1996, page 428
Bess Houdini lived at 67 Payson Avenue in Inwood. [/quote]
This is an excellent find if true!!!! It will be the very first time ANYONE other than Edward Saint made this claim IF it predates Saints claim, which no one now sees as truthful. However it doesn't say for 10 years does it? It doesn't say which years?
I'll see if I can find my copy of this book. Keep up the good work .....But there is ONE PROBLEM......A BIG ONE!!!!!
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (May 15, 2016 12:51AM)
It says "EVERY YEAR on the anniversary of his death." I think this would satisfy most people as would THE LAST SEANCE on 31 October 1936.
Message: Posted by: Sardonicus (May 15, 2016 02:11AM)
You said it yourself, miistermagico...the key word here is "most". ;)
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 16, 2016 12:15PM)
[quote]On May 14, 2016, miistermagico wrote:
Seances Each Year
"Every year on the anniversary his death [Houdini] she
[Bess Houdini] held a seance at Payson Avenue, attended by quite a few well-known magicians."
Appendix: Recollections of Harry and Bess Houdini by Marie Hinson Blood
Houdini!!! The Career of Erich Weiss by Kenneth Silverman,
Harper Collins Publishers, 1996, page 428
Bess Houdini lived at 67 Payson Avenue in Inwood. [/quote]
Are you saying this proves that Bess Houdini held seances for 10 years, not at the top of the Knickerbocker Hotel as others have claimed, but instead at 67 Payson Avenue?

Because that's just crazy talk since she didn't even live there after 1931 ... So where were the Seances in 1932, 1933, 1934, and 1935???? Certainly not at 67 Payon Avenue...
However here is proof that she held ONE there in 1929 .. With Arthur Ford!!!!
https://www.facebook.com/Houdinis-GHOST-973762336033877/

It was Headline News ...
BTW .. Your own article says Edward Saint was FEATHERING HIS NEST with Bess Houdini's money!!!!!!

Page 428.. "Saint kept these folks at bay, and of course was feathering his own nest."... !!!!!
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 16, 2016 07:53PM)
Https://www.facebook.com/973762336033877/photos/a.973766129366831.1073741828.973762336033877/973784222698355/?type=3&theater

His widow certain spirit note is genuine........
Message: Posted by: Jerry (May 19, 2016 01:38PM)
Funny, I always though Lily Dale was the spirltualist capital of the world.

http://www.lilydaleassembly.com/

Look at their schedule events, that have some big names appearing.

And their lake has water.

Slim you may have to relocate.
Message: Posted by: IAIN (May 19, 2016 01:53PM)
"World’s Largest Center for the Science Philosophy and Religion of Spiritualism"

Science?!
Message: Posted by: Jerry (May 19, 2016 02:13PM)
Iain, you should go. You would be a god amongst mortals.

Come over to the dark side and fleece the rubs! :bigsmile:
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 19, 2016 02:27PM)
Cassadaga is a fantastic and inspiring place. I've never been to Lilydale. Perhaps some day. Edward Saint worked both places. ;)
Message: Posted by: miistermagico (May 20, 2016 07:20PM)
Since our main goal in life is happiness. Isn't it likely we rationalize and shape our emotional beliefs and convictions to give us comfort and assurance? .
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 21, 2016 12:23AM)
[quote]On May 20, 2016, miistermagico wrote:
Since our main goal in life is happiness. Isn't it likely we rationalize and shape our emotional beliefs and convictions to give us comfort and assurance? . [/quote]
I'll have to think about that one (I'm HUGE on being happy) ... HOWEVER ... I'm sure this article will shed a lot of light on your questions about Ford!!!!
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/3331038/bess_ford_message_sance_san_bernadino/
Message: Posted by: Slim King (May 24, 2016 09:26PM)
In Arthut Fords last interview in 1970 he claimed that Professional Mediumship was all but gone. He had also debunked more fake mediums than Houdini and Thurston combined. He stated that unfortunately Spiritualism was rife with fraud and he had exposed hundreds if not thousands of fakes. Perhaps you should read a few of his books before you try to add to WIKI .. ;) https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=950&dat=19290109&id=pfJPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=1lQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1801,6027201&hl=en
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Jan 24, 2017 12:37PM)
There is a John Belushi connection now .. GHOSTBUSTERS was inspired by Dan A's grandfathers series of Seances!!!!
A History of Ghosts by Peter Aykroyd .. Highly recommended... https://www.amazon.com/History-Ghosts-Aykroyd-Peter-Hardcover/dp/B008AU6K2E/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1485283182&sr=8-5&keywords=history+of+ghosts+aykroyd
Message: Posted by: MentalistCreationLab (Jan 24, 2017 04:26PM)
I was just reading Nothing So Strange the Autobiography by Arthur Ford which is a great work that illustrates some aspects of how ford thought in relation to psychic and spiritualist stuff. Although I think he may have been a bit to sober while writing this work as some of his other works are a bit wilder and thought provoking.
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Jul 24, 2018 02:33AM)
Ford was never debunked..... :firedevil:
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Sep 29, 2019 01:31AM)
Houdini's Ghost verifies Arthur Fords revelation!!!!