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Topic: Polarity by Pablo Amira
Message: Posted by: Titanas (May 12, 2016 02:00PM)
Polarity looks like a fun and easy to perform trick,
I always loved impossible looking magic that is super easy to do, so you can focus on the performance and yet it will kill spectators!

More info:
Blue: http://www.murphysmagic.com/Product.aspx?id=55660
Red: http://www.murphysmagic.com/Product.aspx?id=55659

Best regards,
Titanas
Message: Posted by: TuneHV (May 12, 2016 02:30PM)
I suppose the method is different based on the ad copy, but this really looks identical to Boris Wild's POP (Perfect Open Prediction).
Message: Posted by: lucavolpe (May 12, 2016 05:12PM)
This looks really good! Bravo Pablo!
Message: Posted by: Amirá (May 12, 2016 05:57PM)
[quote]On May 12, 2016, TuneHV wrote:
I suppose the method is different based on the ad copy, but this really looks identical to Boris Wild's POP (Perfect Open Prediction). [/quote]

Yes, it is different and also all the added ideas makes this offer a new working piece for the performer.
The explanation and performance from Chris was really exceptional. I add in here my stack using cards for doing a killer 2 phase routine.

All the best
Message: Posted by: magico (May 12, 2016 10:05PM)
This appears to be similar to Hector Chadwick's routine Johnny's Dilemma that appear in Thomas Baxter's OP Project. In the credits it is noted that Ed Marlo is credited with being the first to publish the idea. Marlo's version was called Open Prediction (12th) and was published in Jon Racherbaumer's Sticks and Stones (Number 7; July, 1977) within Lloyd Jones’s The Greater S.O.B. Jr. A number of others used the idea including Gary Ouellet, who marketed the effect in 1994 under the name The Proton Deck.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (May 13, 2016 02:16AM)
Interesting Magico.
Let's hope crediting has been carried out with due diligence.
Message: Posted by: Amirá (May 13, 2016 05:25AM)
Thanks magico for your references. Indeed this deck is based in those works (and they were credited) but we offer a new approach in terms of the thematical presentations and the extra use of other method that allows the creation of not just an open prediction but also a mindreading effect using the same special deck, an extra idea that according my previouw knowledge was not done before.


Best
Message: Posted by: Tally_NSA (May 13, 2016 08:01AM)
[quote]On May 12, 2016, magico wrote:
This appears to be similar to Hector Chadwick's routine Johnny's Dilemma that appear in Thomas Baxter's OP Project. In the credits it is noted that Ed Marlo is credited with being the first to publish the idea. Marlo's version was called Open Prediction (12th) and was published in Jon Racherbaumer's Sticks and Stones (Number 7; July, 1977) within Lloyd Jones’s The Greater S.O.B. Jr. A number of others used the idea including Gary Ouellet, who marketed the effect in 1994 under the name The Proton Deck. [/quote]

LOL This site never ceases to amaze me. And I mean that in the good sense - I am truly amazed at your encyclopaedia-like knowledge. Well done Sir!

If you want to come and find out who did what where and when, just post here at the Café, and someone will amaze you by giving you chapter and verse.

Impressive stuff!
Message: Posted by: magico (May 13, 2016 07:48PM)
[quote]On May 13, 2016, Amirá wrote:
Thanks magico for your references. Indeed this deck is based in those works (and they were credited) but we offer a new approach in terms of the thematical presentations and the extra use of other method that allows the creation of not just an open prediction but also a mindreading effect using the same special deck, an extra idea that according my previouw knowledge was not done before.


Best [/quote]

That's good to hear. The Proton Deck by Jean Boucher & Patrick Reymond included 3 effects. Here are the descriptions of the effects.

WIDE OPEN: Gary Ouellet's version of the Curry Open Prediction features an amazing handling of a classic effect! The magician makes an open prediction, say the 9 of Clubs. The spectator takes the deck, deals cards face up onto the table, and whenever he chooses, deals one card face down. He then continues to deal through the entire deck, never finding the 9 of Clubs. Naturally, the card he reversed turns out to match the prediction!

TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE: A spectator is asked to hide a deck of cards from view, then take any card out, turn it upside down, and reinsert it into the deck wherever he chooses. The magician then accurately predicts the outcome! Note that the deck is a true 52 card deck, the spectator can select any card from anywhere in the deck, and the spectator spreads the cards to reveal the ending!

DO-WAH AS I DO-WAH: A spectator cuts the deck in half, keeping one of the two portions for himself and giving the other to the magician. Each shuffle their respective halves, and exchange two cards (for a total of four). These four cards turn out to be the four kings!

I am looking forward to see what you have added.

Magico
Message: Posted by: IanB (May 14, 2016 06:13AM)
Always amazes me that "named" magicians praise and advertise the latest releases only to find that the items aren't original, often uncredited and occasionally ripped off.

Why don't inventors do a bit of due diligence. If little old me who is not a "named" magician knows of this and all of it's variations surely the companies and people involved at a high level should do?

I've been using the Proton Deck since it was first released. Apart from a presentational spin there is no real difference here.

This is happening more and more ...
Message: Posted by: Amirá (May 14, 2016 08:01AM)
No need to over-dramatize this product guys. In "Polarity" we didn't release something "not original, uncredited or just rip off" . Ian, I cant understand how you can know that in this product we did not add any difference if you don't have the product to compare. If you only are having an opinion by seeing the trailer, you are not having a complete image for sure.

"Polarity" uses the concept from the Proton Deck but the product in my opinion is a valid new original offer because we add interesting thematics to use far different to just explicitly name a card outloud and make it happen without a narrative that is memorable, and the option to do a 2-phase routine using a card stack that, to my knowledge, is not an option explored before.

I know that the concept of "originality" is subjective in all creative crafts, but if you follow the school of thought of John de Graaf regarding the 5 levels of creativity, for sure this product does not reach a deep level but it has never been part of it. This product is offered as a basic effect, with no sleight of hand, perfect for the student of mystery arts how wants a clean prediction but most important, a full thematical performance that is credible and interesting to experience and not just a boring explanation of what is happening (I name the 5 of clubs...deal the cards...one turnover...the 5 of clubs....).

I believe that any magic product is valid if adds something creative and original to it and I believe that "Polarity" fits that category.

For owners of the Proton Deck, sure, you can copy the theme used by Chris in the trailer, not buying "Polarity" and use it in your own performance but you will miss part of the value of the product.


Best
Message: Posted by: Amirá (May 14, 2016 12:51PM)
Again guys, I have nothing but respect for previous authors and publications.

I create this independently and before working in this, I did the investigation and knew about the Proton Deck. I approach the appropiate persons and talk privately about the viability of this product and all was sorted. Everything was and is done with the intention to create contribution.

Originality has various factors in this business and I think that we need to also take the importance about the authenticity, and althought "Polarity" doesn't offer a new addition in terms of gimmkicked decks, it offers new thematics and a new 2-phase option that is fun to do and can create great new moments for our audiences.

All the best
Message: Posted by: John C (May 14, 2016 01:34PM)
Often times it makes sense to offer a refreshing idea to the community if it's based on an already existing product. No sense in rebuilding the wheel as they say.
Message: Posted by: DigaMag (May 14, 2016 08:22PM)
Since this is a gimmicked deck, can it be inspected at the end ?

Thanks in advance

Diga
Message: Posted by: John C (May 14, 2016 08:29PM)
[quote]On May 14, 2016, DigaMag wrote:
Since this is a gimmicked deck, can it be inspected at the end ?

Thanks in advance

Diga [/quote]

What gimmicked deck can? And what difference does it make? Not trying to be combative but comon the answer is obvious.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (May 15, 2016 12:38AM)
Why on earth would anybody want to inspect a deck that they were just holding in their hands and dealing cards from?
Message: Posted by: DigaMag (May 15, 2016 05:38AM)
Thanks for the Answers guys ...

Diga
Message: Posted by: Jonathan1000 (May 15, 2016 10:08AM)
Pablo, without disclosing methods, can you briefly describe how your effect offers advantages to Perfect Open Prediction?

Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Amirá (May 15, 2016 03:54PM)
[quote]On May 15, 2016, Jonathan1000 wrote:
Pablo, without disclosing methods, can you briefly describe how your effect offers advantages to Perfect Open Prediction?

Thanks! [/quote]

Hi Jonathan1000, thanks for the interest. Both effects are similar in some ways but Polarity have the advantage of that your setup is more easily covered and more simple.
Also in personal aspects my routine has other advantages but then we enter in exposure, which I will not do in respect of my release and Boris creation.

Best
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (May 20, 2016 03:01PM)
This arrived in stock today with a DVD and deck ready to go!

It is very easy to do and plays just like the trailer, it's also very good value for money considering it all made up ready to go.

Check it out here http://www.saturnmagic.co.uk/saturn-magic-shop/polarity--red--by-pablo-amira--trick.html
Message: Posted by: pegasus (May 21, 2016 02:40PM)
Is it always the same card predicted?
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (May 21, 2016 03:05PM)
You get a choice of 2 but you can change the card if you wish.

A lot of you will have what is required, if not you can purchase them to give you more options.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (May 22, 2016 04:07PM)
[quote]On May 21, 2016, pegasus wrote:
Is it always the same card predicted? [/quote]

If it is like proton - of course. Or one of two possibilities.
Message: Posted by: 1KJ (May 22, 2016 04:37PM)
Saysold1,

I am thinking a similar thought. I do a very similar routine that requires only a single gimmicked card. My routine ends with handing out the card (In the demo, it would be the KS), as a souvenir. My patter is different, it is about everyone has a card they are drawn to and will subconsciously know where it is in the deck. Also, the deck is a regular deck and is fully examinable at the end of my routine. Maybe I should market the routine.

I too don't see how this is a big improvement.

KJ
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (May 22, 2016 04:47PM)
Well as Pablo said those who have owned Proton for awhile (I've had mine for over 20 years and made my own up) could pretty much gather what the alternate routine is just by watching the demo.

Alright I will step away.

For those that have never heard of nor owned Proton deck (Camirand Academy) then you might dig this.

IKJ - sounds cool maybe you should market it?
Message: Posted by: Amirá (May 22, 2016 04:58PM)
Hi Bret
Obviously opinions are personal, subjective and If they are based in respect for the art, understandable.

Polarity isn't a breakthrough at all, and trying to judge it in that manner is not fair. The same as your great SvenPads. You took a classic prop and make it better. No innovation, rather new options.
This product is about giving the interested performers new options with this special deck known as Proton Deck but also known in other ways. This is new in my standards because adds new handling ideas, themes and optional phases that expand the basic use to more potential interesting areas.

I know that for some members and performers this is not enough to appreciate this release as a valid new product, and I can understand, but I defend my extra ideas applied in here as original.


Best
Message: Posted by: plink (May 22, 2016 06:40PM)
Is this a table hopping effect? Much reset?
Message: Posted by: 1KJ (May 22, 2016 06:47PM)
[quote]On May 22, 2016, Amirá wrote:
Hi Bret
Obviously opinions are personal, subjective and If they are based in respect for the art, understandable.

Polarity isn't a breakthrough at all, and trying to judge it in that manner is not fair. The same as your great SvenPads. You took a classic prop and make it better. No innovation, rather new options.
This product is about giving the interested performers new options with this special deck known as Proton Deck but also known in other ways. This is new in my standards because adds new handling ideas, themes and optional phases that expand the basic use to more potential interesting areas.

I know that for some members and performers this is not enough to appreciate this release as a valid new product, and I can understand, but I defend my extra ideas applied in here as original.


Best [/quote]

Pablo,

You are right. it is probably unfair to talk about "improvement". At most, it is just one person's opinion. Yours is simply another take. After all, nearly all magic is just a progression from something that came before.

I wish you the best with your project.

KJ
Message: Posted by: Amirá (May 22, 2016 06:53PM)
[quote]On May 22, 2016, 1KJ wrote:
[quote]On May 22, 2016, Amirá wrote:
Hi Bret
Obviously opinions are personal, subjective and If they are based in respect for the art, understandable.

Polarity isn't a breakthrough at all, and trying to judge it in that manner is not fair. The same as your great SvenPads. You took a classic prop and make it better. No innovation, rather new options.
This product is about giving the interested performers new options with this special deck known as Proton Deck but also known in other ways. This is new in my standards because adds new handling ideas, themes and optional phases that expand the basic use to more potential interesting areas.

I know that for some members and performers this is not enough to appreciate this release as a valid new product, and I can understand, but I defend my extra ideas applied in here as original.


Best [/quote]

Pablo,

You are right. it is probably unfair to talk about "improvement". At most, it is just one person's opinion. Yours is simply another take. After all, nearly all magic is just a progression from something that came before.

I wish you the best with your project.

KJ [/quote]

Exactly, this is my opinion, subjective and always sensible to respectful argument.

All the best for you.


[quote]On May 22, 2016, plink wrote:
Is this a table hopping effect? Much reset? [/quote]


Perfect for this context. Just a natural 2 seconds of movements/re-ordering (even in front of your audience) and you are ready again. Not instant reset in my opinion but 2 seconds... which is good for table hopping.


Best
Message: Posted by: pegasus (May 22, 2016 08:17PM)
If it's the same card each time then I would never use for table hopping.
Message: Posted by: Amirá (May 23, 2016 01:53AM)
[quote]On May 22, 2016, pegasus wrote:
If it's the same card each time then I would never use for table hopping. [/quote]



don't worry, it is not the same card each time. You can change it.

Best
Message: Posted by: pegasus (May 23, 2016 03:44AM)
You can change it on the fly?
Message: Posted by: Saturn UK (May 23, 2016 04:12AM)
[quote]On May 23, 2016, pegasus wrote:
You can change it on the fly? [/quote]

Yes you can there is only 1 card that needs changing to change the outcome.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (May 23, 2016 08:56AM)
[quote]On May 22, 2016, saysold1 wrote:
[quote]On May 21, 2016, pegasus wrote:
Is it always the same card predicted? [/quote]

If it is like proton - of course. Or one of two possibilities. [/quote]

Ok I'm confused now. :confused:
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (May 23, 2016 10:19AM)
Pablo -

With respect I don't think comparing the SvenPads to your release is at all comparable nor valid my friend.

The SvenPads use an innovative manufacturing process to within 1/16" tolerances and many new styles including post it notes. They are a product - not a new routine.

Let's not compare new routines to new products. That's a stretch.

Wishing you all the best with Polarity.
Message: Posted by: Amirá (May 23, 2016 02:40PM)
[quote]On May 23, 2016, saysold1 wrote:
Pablo -

With respect I don't think comparing the SvenPads to your release is at all comparable nor valid my friend.

The SvenPads use an innovative manufacturing process to within 1/16" tolerances and many new styles including post it notes. They are a product - not a new routine.

Let's not compare new routines to new products. That's a stretch.

Wishing you all the best with Polarity. [/quote]


I understand Brett, sorry if my comparison offends you in any way. I think that your product offers a new great professional option. You are right that Polarity offer a new routine from an existing concept as the Proton Deck and for that same reason I think that is valid as a new release, because it adds new ideas that were not available in the past.

All the best
Message: Posted by: jeanboucher (May 23, 2016 03:43PM)
Maybe I can just add this handling into the booklet...
Message: Posted by: pegasus (May 23, 2016 07:05PM)
[quote]On May 23, 2016, Saturn UK wrote:
[quote]On May 23, 2016, pegasus wrote:
You can change it on the fly? [/quote]

Yes you can there is only 1 card that needs changing to change the outcome. [/quote]

Thanks Mark and Brett for the info. The fact that the outcome can indeed be different each time with minimal fuss I've put my order in. I like this a lot and am far too lazy to make up my own deck. I look forward to performing this one.
Message: Posted by: Atlas (May 24, 2016 05:39AM)
[quote]On May 23, 2016, jeanboucher wrote:
Maybe I can just add this handling into the booklet... [/quote]

Wait, aren't you one of the gents who made the Proton deck? Why did you say that? I thought Pablo had your permission here?

Best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: jeanboucher (May 24, 2016 07:21AM)
Yes, the Proton Deck is mine, also The Dark Card & Kozar Prediction Pad,
Message: Posted by: Mystification (May 24, 2016 10:01AM)
I wish we were so quick to "police" everyone equally....but unfortunately, depending on how big a name you are determines whether or not you can "recreate" someone else's work. Okay, rant over.
Message: Posted by: Atlas (May 24, 2016 10:07AM)
[quote]On May 24, 2016, Mystification wrote:
I wish we were so quick to "police" everyone equally....but unfortunately, depending on how big a name you are determines whether or not you can "recreate" someone else's work. Okay, rant over. [/quote]

There was an interesting thread about what was worthy of release a few years ago, to which I contributed my views:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?forum=15&topic=501365#9

I'll quote from a bit of it:

"Innovation - In my opinion, a number of things have been released over the years that are frankly devoid of any snippet of innovation. This thread is evidence of similar observations in others, and I think that there is a tremendous difference between an actual step forward and an example of fine routining. I personally feel that if what you have to offer is clever routining, it ought to be submitted to the creator of the effect you have drawn from and the idea can be released in the form of a supplement, or disseminated with the creator's permission. It is honest and honorable and denotes respect for what they have shared with you.

I can think of at least four routines over the last six months that I have taken the time sit down and type out and then share for free with others who had purchased the effect from the creator. If I were avaricious, I would plop these ideas down in an eBook and sell them a week after I came up with my plot or interpretation of the effect. And I think a lot of people who are releasing things right now don't recognize the difference between an innovation and a subtle and clever bit of routining. I feel that only innovations should be released, whereas routining should be shared as it is an extension of another person's idea.

In fact, as many of you can attest, when I have shared ideas that have their roots in my routining, I will pointedly reference the proper effect, and not detail any process that is proprietary to the creator. Why would it be necessary to share a process in the outline of my routining when I should be confident that the person I am sharing it with owns the effect in question and does not need to be walked through whatever takes place?"

These have been and remain my views on the subject. Big name or not, it looks like Pablo is working on sorting things out.

Best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: pegasus (May 24, 2016 11:38AM)
So was this originally a Marlo effect? If so what's the problem?? :confused:
Message: Posted by: Amirá (May 24, 2016 12:09PM)
[quote]On May 24, 2016, pegasus wrote:
So was this originally a Marlo effect? If so what's the problem?? :confused: [/quote]

Hi pegasus, yes, it is an original idea by Marlo but I should approach the original creators who market the effect thru Camirand and not just the company for the sake of respect and good practices of communication and respect.

Best
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (May 24, 2016 01:51PM)
With all respect Pablo,

Here is the issue in all this. When you take a product which already exists and put a new name on it (regardless of the presentation added), you disrespect not only your customers but also the history of magic. Big Blind Media did this with the Mene Tekel Deck. Others have done it as well.

In your case, the proper thing to do was to buy or lease the rights to the name Proton Deck and release it as Proton Deck 2.0 with a flashy new demo, and new handlings and effects possible. The only reason to rename an existing product is to make sales to those who already know the thing you are renaming.

Or simply put, you need better advisors on your team.
Message: Posted by: Lseeyou (May 24, 2016 03:07PM)
[quote]On May 23, 2016, Amirá wrote:
Polarity offer a new routine from an existing concept as the Proton Deck and for that same reason I think that is valid as a new release[/quote]

We can all think that we are right but in the end we discover that we made a mistake... if everyone here start to think of new ideas to use with already released material just to release it as a new effect is way wrong!
Pablo you know it is... c'mon. I've seen this more than once coming from you e.g. material released in ebooks that's from other performers.

Releasing this as Proton Deck 2.0 is a great valid point Tom!
Message: Posted by: davidmag (May 24, 2016 03:25PM)
Have to a agree with Tom and Lseeyou. Not good Pablo,not good...
Message: Posted by: Amirá (May 24, 2016 04:45PM)
I understand the points of view that can appear in here guys. Again I take full responsibility of not contacting Jean at the beginning and being relaxed to contact Camirand.
If you feel that is necessary to still blame me, do it, I understand. My intention again is to give constructive ideas for the interested mystery perfomer.

All the best
Message: Posted by: 1KJ (May 24, 2016 07:18PM)
Pablo,

There are people who love to sit back and judge. It is possible that there was a mistake made on your part. I don't think any one on this thread is innocent of ever having made a mistake.

Simply work it out with Jean to make this right and problem solved.

This is something for you to solve with Jean, period.

All the best to you in working this out.

KJ
Message: Posted by: Mystification (May 25, 2016 06:00AM)
Pablo,

don't feel too bad. Dean Dill did the same thing with the Deans Box. When somebody pointed out that it was an effect already created and marketed years before (Jeff Busby's Automated Sefalaljia), Dean came on here and said "I created Dean's Box with no prior knowledge of Sefalaljia". And you could hear crickets from that point on. Soooo many people improve effects already created, or in fact re-introduce effects already created with no mention of the original creators or getting permission (Bob Swadling and his flipper coin come to mind) but the Magic Police give certain people a pass depending on who they are.
Message: Posted by: IanB (May 25, 2016 06:53AM)
[quote]On May 25, 2016, Mystification wrote:
Pablo,

don't feel too bad. Dean Dill did the same thing with the Deans Box. When somebody pointed out that it was an effect already created and marketed years before (Jeff Busby's Automated Sefalaljia), Dean came on here and said "I created Dean's Box with no prior knowledge of Sefalaljia". And you could hear crickets from that point on. Soooo many people improve effects already created, or in fact re-introduce effects already created with no mention of the original creators or getting permission (Bob Swadling and his flipper coin come to mind) but the Magic Police give certain people a pass depending on who they are. [/quote]

Agree with this Mystification. It happens a great deal.

As I mentioned in a previous post it amazes me how "named" magicians jump on the "praise a product" bandwagon and then disappear into the sunset when products are put into question.

As an owner of the Proton Deck since it was first released, I have now purchased Polarity so I cannot be accused of making comment on something I have no genuine knowledge of.

IMHO the routine offered is no major advancement on the original and as Jean stated earlier was probably better being added to the pamphlet or as also stated obtaining correct permission and releasing "Proton Deck 2.0".

At least I have a spare Proton Deck now ...
Message: Posted by: Fatgumbo (May 25, 2016 10:03PM)
If this is just an expansion on an ed marlo principle, then in my opinion, just a credit to the creator of the proton deck is needed. Others have stated here that it is a vast improvement on the existing proton deck.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (May 25, 2016 10:30PM)
[quote]On May 24, 2016, Tom Cutts wrote:
With all respect Pablo,

Here is the issue in all this. When you take a product which already exists and put a new name on it (regardless of the presentation added), you disrespect not only your customers but also the history of magic. Big Blind Media did this with the Mene Tekel Deck. Others have done it as well.

In your case, the proper thing to do was to buy or lease the rights to the name Proton Deck and release it as Proton Deck 2.0 with a flashy new demo, and new handlings and effects possible. The only reason to rename an existing product is to make sales to those who already know the thing you are renaming.

Or simply put, you need better advisors on your team. [/quote]

100% agree.

I think at least part of the blame here is the "Murphy's hype machine."

Lets put anything we can in the Daiquiri blender and see if we can sell it as something new and delicious.

I've owned Proton deck over 20 years and knew instantly when I watched the demo what I was seeing even before reading the thread.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (May 25, 2016 10:32PM)
[quote]On May 25, 2016, Fatgumbo wrote:
If this is just an expansion on an ed marlo principle, then in my opinion, just a credit to the creator of the proton deck is needed. Others have stated here that it is a vast improvement on the existing proton deck. [/quote]

Actually, nobody in this thread (not even Pablo himself) has [i]stated any such thing[/i].
Message: Posted by: pegasus (May 26, 2016 01:04AM)
[quote]On May 25, 2016, Mystification wrote:
Pablo,

don't feel too bad. Dean Dill did the same thing with the Deans Box. When somebody pointed out that it was an effect already created and marketed years before (Jeff Busby's Automated Sefalaljia), Dean came on here and said "I created Dean's Box with no prior knowledge of Sefalaljia". And you could hear crickets from that point on. Soooo many people improve effects already created, or in fact re-introduce effects already created with no mention of the original creators or getting permission (Bob Swadling and his flipper coin come to mind) but the Magic Police give certain people a pass depending on who they are. [/quote]

So very true.
Message: Posted by: AceFace (May 30, 2016 05:54AM)
Is there any chance we can see some reviews on this effect....I have ordered because I don't own a proton deck and the demo looks really cool. I take it there must be other effects that can be done with this deck,can anyone point me in the right direction so I can learn any other effects with this deck
Many thanks
Message: Posted by: Atlas (May 30, 2016 08:20AM)
[quote]On May 30, 2016, AceFace wrote:
I take it there must be other effects that can be done with this deck,can anyone point me in the right direction so I can learn any other effects with this deck
Many thanks [/quote]

It seems clear that if you owned the Proton Deck, you could do this as well as the effects that were marketed along with the Proton deck. Why didn't you buy that instead? Asking now how to do other effects with this seems backwards.

Best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: pegasus (May 30, 2016 09:29AM)
Because the Proton deck is not available in the UK AFAIK
Message: Posted by: AceFace (May 30, 2016 10:45AM)
That's exactly why I don't own a proton deck...cant find it anywhere!!!!!
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (May 30, 2016 01:42PM)
Nobody seems to be making a legitimate [b]Proton Deck[/b] and marketing it as such currently.

If you're DIY inclined, and you're only making a Proton Deck for your personal use, they're not that difficult to construct.

Hopefully we'll get some sort of update here telling us all relevant permissions have been acquired, which would mean you could (in good conscience) purchase Polarity in order to get your hands on a Proton Deck.

Currently, sites like Penguin still only note that Polarity was "inspired" by the Proton Deck, when in reality it actually [b]IS a Proton Deck[/b], so we're definitely not where we should be just yet.
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (May 30, 2016 11:50PM)
Making your own is an easy affair. Did that years ago after buying the original from Guy Camirand.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (May 31, 2016 02:22AM)
You can only purchase the original from here.

http://www.camirandmagic.com/rt_025.html
Message: Posted by: PWRIS (May 31, 2016 03:07AM)
I just wish that the magic community was as passionate about stopping piracy and exposure on YouTube Etc. as it is on knocking magicians that are trying to enhance our trade. I do understand the points that are being made. However, if we put as much passion into stopping exposure we would all benefit. Just my thoughts.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (May 31, 2016 03:09AM)
Please explain how to prevent exposure on YouTube? I'm all ears.
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (May 31, 2016 08:50AM)
[quote]On May 31, 2016, pegasus wrote:
You can only purchase the original from here.

http://www.camirandmagic.com/rt_025.html [/quote]
Although the Camirand web store is archived, it's dead.

See the note from Camirand here:
http://www.camirandmagic.com
Message: Posted by: Artie Fufkin (May 31, 2016 08:56AM)
[quote]On May 31, 2016, PWRIS wrote:
I just wish that the magic community was as passionate about stopping piracy and exposure on YouTube Etc. as it is on knocking magicians that are trying to enhance our trade. [/quote]

Exposure on Youtube by 14 year olds, and the concept of an established magician releasing another magicians effect without permission are concepts so dissimilar, they really can't be discussed in the same thread.

Your belief that magicians who release other magicians effects without permission somehow [i]"enhances our trade"[/i] further makes rational discussion all but impossible.
Message: Posted by: PWRIS (May 31, 2016 03:28PM)
Artie as I stated "just my thoughts" 😉
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (May 31, 2016 06:19PM)
[quote]On May 31, 2016, PWRIS wrote:
Artie as I stated "just my thoughts" 😉 [/quote]

Well it sure sounded impressive
Message: Posted by: videoman (Jun 5, 2016 01:09PM)
I was visiting a magic buddy and he hands me a DVD case and says "here, I'll never use this why don't you take it?"
It's a product called Polarity, which I had never heard of. He said it's a card effect and uses a gaffed deck. From the name I thought maybe it was some kind of color change or perhaps a moving hole effect.
Well, it was neither of those. I watched the DVD and looked over the deck and I have to say that I was disappointed.

Not that it's a bad trick, it's okay. But IMO there are hundreds of stronger card effects and I certainly wouldn't carry around a gaffed deck just to do this single trick, which can be pretty much replicated with sleight of hand. BTW, I am not familiar with the Proton deck so can't compare it directly to that.

But like I said, it's an okay trick. It utilizes 2 standard methods that combine to create the effect and for the price they're asking it's really not too bad of a deal. But it's not so much the effect that disappointed me. It was the instructional video.

Reading over this thread Pablo congratulates Chris on doing an exceptional job on the video. Oh c'mon now, really????
OMG, it was horrible. I thought it was one of the worst videos I've seen produced by a major magic retailer and it appeared everyone involved really didn't care about it but just wanted to crank it out quickly. I'm not referring to problems with the picture or audio quality, those were fine, it was the actual explanation that was very poorly done.

But I don't really blame Chris or Pablo. It looked to me like Chris may have been thrown into the project at the last minute. Murphy's may have handed him the deck and some notes and said "we're taping this tomorrow and you have to teach it so learn this trick quickly". That's how it came across to me anyway. Pablo is nowhere to be seen on the entire video, perhaps because of language issues but I don't know, so Chris attempted to convey Pablo's thoughts. I say attempted because I don't think he succeeded very well.
Pablo mentions in this thread about adding new "thematics". Well, I think that is a bit of stretch, I'd say it's a modified storyline and patter and I'm not really sure it's even all that new. But it's hard to tell for sure because Chris doesn't seem to fully understand what Pablo's version is other than it involves positive thinking. I doubt he's even seen it, he just seems to be reciting what was told to him.

Now the trick is fairly self-explanatory so a detailed video isn't really necessary for a moderately experienced magician, but that's not the point. It's the principle. I'm just tired of seeing these thrown together projects. Chris flashes many times, gets confused, has lots of verbal gaffs...all the tell-tale signs of someone who really doesn't perform the trick or have a thorough familiarity with it. But regardless, it would have been a simple matter to edit these things out, or spend 60 seconds reshooting a couple things.

There is a bonus idea which is a new (maybe?) version of an old method. But could that explanation have possibly been done any worse or made to sound any more complicated? I don't think so. It looked exactly as it would if you quickly taught it to someone and then asked THEM to immediately record a video explanation of it, which seems to be what happened because Chris really didn't seem to understand it and you could almost see his relief every time he turned over a card and it was the correct one. He also attempted to explain a subtlety that Pablo apparently suggests as a transition from the bonus effect into Polarity but he obviously missed the point of it and I'm almost certain he explained it incorrectly because he didn't seem to understand what Pablo was trying to do with it. If not, then it simply didn't make sense.

Plus, the bonus material doesn't really tie in with the polarity effect. The bonus is more of a method than an effect and they don't bother giving you many ideas of how to use it, just naming a card a spectator cuts to and then following with Polarity. Again, had all the appearances of something tagged on to try and add some value. Not a "killer 2 phase routine" in my book.

But here's the worse blunder of all IMO. I mentioned this trick uses 2 methods. Chris explains one of the methods (which is extremely simple) but he explains it ad nauseum. I mean he goes on and on about it. But the second (more complicated) method he doesn't explain at all. He says quickly "the faces of the deck are XXX" (I don't want to expose anything so I'm not mentioning it by name) but never says what that is, what it does, how it's used, nothing, nada. If fact, he never mentions it again.
That should never have gotten past the editor. But again, speed rather than quality seemed to be the priority with this project. And again, most magicians will understand it, but if you're a beginner you would be totally confused.

So, an okay trick with nothing really new added that I could see, along with a seemingly thrown together video. But of course this is only my opinion. Others may think it's the greatest thing ever.
Message: Posted by: lord_wallmotto (Jun 7, 2016 04:34AM)
Why would you carry a fully gimmicked deck for this effect? I do like the effect, but there are lots of ways to accomplish the same effect with a regular deck of cards.
Message: Posted by: Amirá (Jun 7, 2016 09:36AM)
[quote]On Jun 7, 2016, lord_wallmotto wrote:
Why would you carry a fully gimmicked deck for this effect? I do like the effect, but there are lots of ways to accomplish the same effect with a regular deck of cards. [/quote]

Hi lord_wallmotto

That argument can be applied to any effect really when there is a gimmicked version. I use this and also ungimmicked impromptu handlings. All depends in the goals that you want to achieve.
Sometimes I want to do a completely hands off handling and I use Polarity, other times I use other approaches. It is always to know options and develop a proper criteria to select your options depending your context.


Best
Message: Posted by: Decomposed (Jun 7, 2016 08:42PM)
Amira rocks!! :wavey:
Message: Posted by: drstevemagic (Jun 8, 2016 02:24PM)
My gosh! Reading this thread has been exhausting! However, thoroughly convinced not to order this and put the same energy and time it took to read this into finding the Proton deck that I have buried somewhere in my magic cave.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 8, 2016 03:13PM)
World Magic Reviewed this today. Take a look.


[youtube]gWzr-fV8JT8[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: billion (Jun 8, 2016 06:13PM)
Interesting review, thanks for posting.

Billion
Message: Posted by: Amirá (Jun 8, 2016 06:40PM)
Sorry guys, but I don't have much time to answer so much questions about it. My closed answer to Artie´s question is : "Yes"

If you want to get the original "Proton Deck", do it. It is a great Ed Marlo´s idea and for sure Camirand´s product will be quality for your money.
If you want to support Murphy´s and our efforts to bring this to different levels, buy Polarity in your favorite magic dealer.

Again, I don't have too much time to talk now in this forums but I will be happily discuss with the interested one privately.

All the best!
Message: Posted by: writeall (Jun 9, 2016 03:54AM)
Cool trick. I hadn't heard of the Proton deck before. So I'd like to thank Pablo Amira for reintroducing it. There's a value in revisiting good material, even classic material. I hear Dan Harlan is doing Tarbell.
Message: Posted by: la-do (Jun 9, 2016 02:49PM)
[quote]On Jun 8, 2016, Bill Hegbli wrote:
World Magic Reviewed this today. Take a look.


[youtube]gWzr-fV8JT8[/youtube] [/quote]

I have to agree, I'd prefer to use an invisible deck.
Message: Posted by: afinemesh (Jun 9, 2016 04:33PM)
Brutal thread. I guess I won't put out my version of the kaleidoscope deck.

No one would do that, right?
Message: Posted by: TheGreatRaymondo (Jun 10, 2016 12:50PM)
An excellent post PWRIS.
You really have to chuckle at some of the self-righteous posters on this and other threads who can't wait to wade in with their thoughts and ideas of what other people could / should / would have done if it was them. Most of them have never produced or sold a magic trick or effect in their life and probably never will. I would hazard a guess that most of the 'know it all's - who know nothing' have never performed magic even at a semi professional level but are most forthcoming in telling other people what and where they have gone wrong.

From what I can see Amira has never claimed to invented the effect. He has credited previous work, he has attempted to answer every question thrown at him in an open, transparent, honest and fair way and and he has not dodged the issue or ran for hills which is more than can be said for a lot off other people who sell magic effects when the heat comes on.

As for 'Magicians Helping Magicians' - don't make me laugh!
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Jun 10, 2016 05:24PM)
Hey Guys, what do you want. Give it a rest. Point has been made. Back on post, it is a good trick.

Best

Steve
Message: Posted by: btwigg (Jun 10, 2016 06:14PM)
Seriously this is tried. Pick your side and move on.
Message: Posted by: IMAGINACIAN (Jun 12, 2016 12:31PM)
A tough thread really. Ok to stick to the point, personally I never heard of Proton Deck until this thread. So for me Polarity is a good trick. But just that. It is not a great trick which I would be carrying and performing. No. IMHO, invisible deck in my pocket is far more value and flexibility. So this will stay in my sock drawer but for the occasional one off show up.
Message: Posted by: TheGreatRaymondo (Jun 13, 2016 09:36AM)
I have just purchased Polarity - can't wait to use it.
Message: Posted by: alexlatorre (Jun 13, 2016 04:04PM)
I actually really like this, and probably will be using it.
Message: Posted by: Amirá (Jun 14, 2016 08:48PM)
Thanks TheGreatRaymondo and alexlatorre !

Regarding the comparison of the Ultra Mental Deck aka Invisible Deck with Polarity, it is in my perspective a poor view of understanding the basic effect of each special deck. Each one has different qualities and options.

For sure the Ultra Mental Deck is a classic for a reason. It is so direct and simple to understand to audiences but the problem is that reversing one card sometimes is not enough as demonstration of knowing in advance the participant´s decision (for this reason I don't use the Ultra Mental Deck in my repertoire, rather other decks and routines)

Polarity is not about revealing any named card, rather predict a card that the performer predicts openly to be the one. Very different effects.

Best
Message: Posted by: Amirá (Jul 15, 2016 05:46PM)
Review from Ning Cai


[youtube]hq5DRzt3ERs[/youtube]


And performance (brilliant, simple and fully connected)


[youtube]y24e3jsK7Ow[/youtube]



Best
Message: Posted by: Amirá (Aug 1, 2017 10:15AM)
A new review for "Polarity" :)

http://straighttalkmagicreviews.com/polarity-by-pablo-amira-and-murphys-magic-supplies/
Message: Posted by: Fero (Aug 1, 2017 10:22AM)
My deck start to flesh ..... anything I can do to fix it??
Message: Posted by: Amirá (Aug 12, 2017 12:04PM)
[quote]On Aug 1, 2017, Fero wrote:
My deck start to flesh ..... anything I can do to fix it?? [/quote]
Hello Fero!
Congratulations! That means that you perform "Polarity" a lot!

If you buy the product, you know that you can make other one in a simple manner. You can maybe take "the card", adding it to other deck which you prepare for the routine ;)