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Topic: Lazy man card trick, butterfly effect and so on
Message: Posted by: moiici (Jul 16, 2016 07:25AM)
A post on new tube.
Here: https://youtu.be/TgNYUlDAPTc
Ordinary deck,
full shuffle of the whole deck by the spectator
no gimmick
always succeeds
.....
Message: Posted by: jmbulg (Jul 16, 2016 08:45AM)
Very nice and clever idea on the K*****L count but I would not let the video as such with the cards visible, neither the name for the effect, for a long time as it is quite easy to backtrace.
Message: Posted by: moiici (Jul 16, 2016 10:06AM)
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, jmbulg wrote:
Very nice and clever idea on the K*****L count but I would not let the video as such with the cards visible, neither the name for the effect, for a long time as it is quite easy to backtrace. [/quote]

Nothing to do with the Kruskal trick. The prediction is prior to the shuffle!
Message: Posted by: jmbulg (Jul 16, 2016 10:49AM)
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, moiici wrote:
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, jmbulg wrote:
Very nice and clever idea on the K*****L count but I would not let the video as such with the cards visible, neither the name for the effect, for a long time as it is quite easy to backtrace. [/quote]

Nothing to do with the Kruskal trick. The prediction is prior to the shuffle! [/quote]

Yes of course but you exploit the property of the Kruskal count (not the trick, which is just one application of the property) that all dealing that arrive which at one moment arrive at a common point will finish later on the same final card (here your prediction) but you have a nice way to enforce that all ways lead to Rome...
Message: Posted by: moiici (Jul 16, 2016 11:08AM)
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, jmbulg wrote:
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, moiici wrote:
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, jmbulg wrote:
Very nice and clever idea on the K*****L count but I would not let the video as such with the cards visible, neither the name for the effect, for a long time as it is quite easy to backtrace. [/quote]

Nothing to do with the Kruskal trick. The prediction is prior to the shuffle! [/quote]

Yes of course but you exploit the property of the Kruskal count (not the trick, which is just one application of the property) that all dealing that arrive which at one moment arrive at a common point will finish later on the same final card (here your prediction) but you have a nice way to enforce that all ways lead to Rome... [/quote]
I do not use the property of the Kruskal count. This property does not ensure success in all cases. In contrast, my version always guarantees success.
Message: Posted by: jmbulg (Jul 16, 2016 11:23AM)
I know that your outcome is certain, but you exploit the basic property of the Kruskal count, which is that once two different dealings reach the same point, you always will end up at the same final position. Normal Kruskal is just statistically leading to such a situation in most cases, but you found a nice way to enforce it (and which is why I think you should not show the pattern of the cards prior to the riffle shuffle). (We can also continue via PM as I certainly do not want do reveal your nice idea)
Message: Posted by: moiici (Jul 16, 2016 11:40AM)
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, jmbulg wrote:
I know that your outcome is certain, but you exploit the basic property of the Kruskal count, which is that once two different dealings reach the same point, you always will end up at the final position. Normal Kruskal is just statistically leading to such a situation in most cases, but you found a nice way to enforce it (and which is why I think you should not show the pattern of the cards prior to the riffle shuffle) [/quote]
With the Kruskal property, the magicien must see the cards to find the issue. Here, it is not a case. I know a lot about the Kruskal property, I know how this trick is done. It is another property. Here, the magician does not touch nor see the cards.
Message: Posted by: jmbulg (Jul 16, 2016 11:49AM)
I fully understand your idea and it is a good one. Just do not mix up the Kruskal trick and the underlying principle of converging paths at some locations. If you make sure (by your method) that the path cross at one point you do not need to rely on statistics and looking at the cards to find the final outcome as you already programmed the place where all possible path eventually cross and this lead to your prediction. Again your method is very nice and there is no need to get defensive or feel critisized (this is certainly not my point).
Message: Posted by: moiici (Jul 16, 2016 11:52AM)
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, jmbulg wrote:
... (and which is why I think you should not show the pattern of the cards prior to the riffle shuffle)... [/quote]

The pattern may be displayed. Nothing will appear.
Message: Posted by: jmbulg (Jul 16, 2016 11:57AM)
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, moiici wrote:
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, jmbulg wrote:
... (and which is why I think you should not show the pattern of the cards prior to the riffle shuffle)... [/quote]

The pattern may be displayed. Nothing will appear. [/quote]

Well it did for me very clearly, so it is up to you if you want to give away your idea ;-)
Message: Posted by: moiici (Jul 16, 2016 12:09PM)
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, jmbulg wrote:
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, moiici wrote:
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, jmbulg wrote:
... (and which is why I think you should not show the pattern of the cards prior to the riffle shuffle)... [/quote]

The pattern may be displayed. Nothing will appear. [/quote]

Well it did for me very clearly, so it is up to you if you want to give away your idea ;-) [/quote]
I sent you a private message.
Message: Posted by: jmbulg (Jul 16, 2016 06:51PM)
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, moiici wrote:
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, jmbulg wrote:
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, moiici wrote:
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, jmbulg wrote:
... (and which is why I think you should not show the pattern of the cards prior to the riffle shuffle)... [/quote]

The pattern may be displayed. Nothing will appear. [/quote]

Well it did for me very clearly, so it is up to you if you want to give away your idea ;-) [/quote]
I sent you a private message. [/quote]



Thanks for the information shared via PM. There is a brilliant aspect of the method which I did not imagine and which opens the door to quite some interesting ideas ! Well done !
Message: Posted by: Ypnoze (Jul 17, 2016 04:26PM)
I'm curious to know more about this, I like the first shuffle that is more deceptive than just shuffling the upper part

Can you tell me more about it ?
Message: Posted by: moiici (Jul 18, 2016 01:33AM)
[quote]On Jul 17, 2016, Ypnoze wrote:
I'm curious to know more about this, I like the first shuffle that is more deceptive than just shuffling the upper part

Can you tell me more about it ? [/quote].

I use a new principle which allows full shuffle of the deck.
It's all here!
Message: Posted by: jmbulg (Jul 18, 2016 04:34AM)
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, jmbulg wrote:
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, moiici wrote:
[quote]On Jul 16, 2016, jmbulg wrote:
... (and which is why I think you should not show the pattern of the cards prior to the riffle shuffle)... [/quote]

The pattern may be displayed. Nothing will appear. [/quote]

Well it did for me very clearly, so it is up to you if you want to give away your idea ;-) [/quote]
Just to clarify : When I say the pattern of cards can lead to the reconstruction of the effect I refer to the video version of course. In real life there is no way the spectator can reconstruct it :-))
Message: Posted by: Ypnoze (Jul 18, 2016 05:55AM)
So it's completely different from the pattern of the butterfly effect ?
Message: Posted by: moiici (Jul 18, 2016 06:20AM)
[quote]On Jul 18, 2016, Ypnoze wrote:
So it's completely different from the pattern of the butterfly effect ? [/quote]
The effect is similar, but the spectator shuffle the full deck!
Message: Posted by: Ypnoze (Jul 18, 2016 06:23AM)
Well you had my curiosity, but now you have my full attention ;)
Message: Posted by: moiici (Jul 18, 2016 08:09AM)
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||here a new link for the video: https://youtu.be/Afn7CNaYcv8 ||
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Message: Posted by: Ypnoze (Jul 18, 2016 09:23AM)
Are you releasing it ?
Message: Posted by: moiici (Jul 18, 2016 09:37AM)
[quote]On Jul 18, 2016, Ypnoze wrote:
Are you releasing it ? [/quote]
yes! I'm not a professional....
Message: Posted by: Ypnoze (Jul 18, 2016 09:40AM)
Excellent Handling, tu as pique ma curiosité
Message: Posted by: papawemba (Jul 25, 2016 07:08AM)
Great trick moiici !
It does look very clean, more baffling than butterfly effect since you shuffle the cards.
So it can be done impromptu ?
Hope you release it !

Nicolas
Message: Posted by: moiici (Jul 25, 2016 11:57AM)
[quote]On Jul 25, 2016, papawemba wrote:
Great trick moiici !
It does look very clean, more baffling than butterfly effect since you shuffle the cards.
So it can be done impromptu ?
Hope you release it !
Nicolas [/quote]

What do you mean by impromptu?
Message: Posted by: papawemba (Jul 25, 2016 01:29PM)
I mean, someone hands me a deck of card and I just do the trick :-)
(Or eventually a small setup is fine.)
Setup for Butterfly effect is not a big deal but not easy to setup live ;-)

Best
Message: Posted by: moiici (Jul 26, 2016 10:08AM)
[quote]On Jul 25, 2016, papawemba wrote:
I mean, someone hands me a deck of card and I just do the trick :-)
(Or eventually a small setup is fine.)
Setup for Butterfly effect is not a big deal but not easy to setup live ;-)

Best [/quote]
There is a setup not easy to do live.
Message: Posted by: jmbulg (Nov 28, 2016 05:29PM)
The idea has now been publshed at

http://www.lybrary.com/a-bumblebees-flight-p-891875.html

and includes one version out of the box, shown by Tomas Blomberg.
Message: Posted by: jmbulg (Feb 2, 2017 02:37AM)
Not really a review but contains a nice statement and assessment about it:

http://www.thejerx.com/blog/2017/2/1/daughters-of-zeus
Message: Posted by: Mystification (Feb 2, 2017 07:10AM)
Anybody have this that can offer a review?