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Topic: 4DT + Q&A = overkill?
Message: Posted by: AlexanderG (Aug 26, 2016 01:27PM)
I'd love to hear from experienced performers whether you think 4DT together with an envelope-based Q&A routine would be just too much. Whether the similarities/overlaps (e.g., writing on cards, placing cards in envelopes, the discerning of the contents of those cards, cold reading) are just too great to make for a varied and entertaining set. Thank you!
Message: Posted by: SolidSnake (Aug 26, 2016 01:45PM)
Bob Cassidy has a Q&A out that combines with 4DT
Message: Posted by: Smoking Camel (Aug 26, 2016 02:03PM)
Why are you doing Q&A with envelopes? Learn an oracle and do it for real. "jump without the rope"
Message: Posted by: E.E. (Aug 26, 2016 02:34PM)
Q&A 2000 and 21st Century Q&A both by Bob Cassidy is what you are looking for.

Regarding to your question, I don't think it's overkilled, but you should estructure your entire act around Q&A and 4DT only.
Message: Posted by: E.E. (Aug 26, 2016 02:42PM)
[quote]On Aug 26, 2016, Smoking Camel wrote:
Why are you doing Q&A with envelopes? Learn an oracle and do it for real. "jump without the rope" [/quote]

Of course... this act would be considered dynamite mentalism!
Message: Posted by: j100taylor (Aug 26, 2016 02:53PM)
[quote]On Aug 26, 2016, Smoking Camel wrote:
Why are you doing Q&A with envelopes? Learn an oracle and do it for real. "jump without the rope" [/quote]

You should tell Bob he's doing it wrong.
Message: Posted by: Sven Rygh (Aug 26, 2016 03:21PM)
Yes, it is an overkill
Message: Posted by: Nestor D (Aug 26, 2016 06:46PM)
I recall Bob Cassidy saying that he often fuses the two routines into one :)

(but not as separate pieces of the same act, they would probably feel way too similar, he use 4DT in place of his Q&A for his small shows)
Message: Posted by: E.E. (Aug 26, 2016 10:15PM)
[quote]On Aug 26, 2016, Sven Rygh wrote:
Yes, it is an overkill [/quote]

Why? I guess if you perform the routines separately (4DT first, then Q&A) that would feel overkilled, but if they're fused into one routine, it seems ok.
Again, Bob published the way he do this, but I guess you already knew that so...Why?
Message: Posted by: Smoking Camel (Aug 27, 2016 03:16AM)
[quote]On Aug 26, 2016, j100taylor wrote:
[quote]On Aug 26, 2016, Smoking Camel wrote:
Why are you doing Q&A with envelopes? Learn an oracle and do it for real. "jump without the rope" [/quote]

You should tell Bob he's doing it wrong. [/quote]

Nah - Bob would simply say well, that's what a real mind reader would do.
Message: Posted by: Smoking Camel (Aug 27, 2016 03:18AM)
Get Luke Jermays latest DVD set - you will see how he transitions from a 3 person telepathy routine to a Q&A routine with no issues. Of course, Luke's not using envelopes for any of it, but he gives some good direction about how the telepathy spills over into Q&A.
Message: Posted by: brehan (Aug 27, 2016 04:09AM)
Smoking camel
Can you tell the name of lukes dvd?
Many thanks

Brehan
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Aug 27, 2016 05:01AM)
In short, I believe also firmly that it is an overkill. Think of your audience... How what they perceive it? Could they tell somebody else in one sentence what they have experienced? Besides that, Q&A is a cultural thing. In Middle Europe people are more reluctant and get quite fast bored... Quite risky to do it over here. And I talk by a lot of experience. Colleagues over here have seen my very own take of 4DT quite frequently ("Schooltime" which is also very different by method, you will find it in my upcoming book in English...) and certainly would agree that I would loose a great deal of its impact by overloading it. Jan
Message: Posted by: jstreiff (Aug 27, 2016 08:04AM)
Jan, what specifically about the audiences causes them to be bored? I presume it has nothing to do with the performer? Just curious?
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Aug 27, 2016 11:58AM)
Again, I say it is also a cultural thing. People get bored as I give one person a reading, it does not concern anybody else. People do not like in tendency to "discuss" private things in public. Esoteric themes are far less popular than in the states e. g. It is a different cultural background and education, unfortunately also in quality what is not a compliment (for a part of Americans). Readings/Q&A you still can do, but then more in private sessions. Here people (apart that you get a pre selection, who comes, who attends...) are less hesitant to open themselves. Jan
Message: Posted by: jstreiff (Aug 28, 2016 09:00AM)
Thanks Jan, interesting.
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Aug 28, 2016 10:46AM)
My pleasure. I still enjoy to see a well performed Q&A - and I have seen it! People who attended mindvention a few years ago could have exprienced "Cashetta`s" act, and that was probably the best performance I have seen ever concerning "Q&A"! Jan
Message: Posted by: jakeg (Aug 28, 2016 11:00AM)
I think that the only conflict is the method. I feel that 4DT would establish your credibility, bot I have a problem with the use of envelopes in both routines.
Message: Posted by: AFdC (Sep 1, 2016 03:28PM)
[quote]On Aug 27, 2016, jstreiff wrote:
Jan, what specifically about the audiences causes them to be bored? I presume it has nothing to do with the performer? Just curious? [/quote]
I am not Jan, but I am quite sure, it has all to do with the performer.
Message: Posted by: AFdC (Sep 1, 2016 03:38PM)
[quote]On Aug 27, 2016, Smoking Camel wrote:
Get Luke Jermays latest DVD set ...[/quote]
This is a very goog tip. But do not consult this DVD for the method, because the method is irrelevant.
Consult it for the premise and premonition - no wonder, that this is also the title of this DVD-Box

"Premise and Premonition" by Luke Jermay at www.vanishinginc.com
Message: Posted by: CurtWaltermire (Sep 2, 2016 12:35PM)
I have actually performed both of these type of routines in the same show with great success in the past, but I agree with Jan that it can be overkill and that culture and audience need to be greatly taken into consideration.

In a corporate after-dinner show, I believe in most cases it may become a bit of a drudgery for an audience, depending upon the presentation and the performer. In my experience, most corporate audiences that I perform for have very limited knowledge of me and even mentalism itself prior to the show. I purposely make my effects and routines very commercial and not too involved or complicated. Anything too deep and I seem to lose people. Not to mention the fact that any pre-show work if needed can be difficult depending upon the event.

In a private, in-home type of environment (or a psychic party or something similar) or public shows where people are buying tickets to see a mentalist/mind-reader, it seems to play much better. When I do a public show, I am a bit more relaxed and take more time to add readings and things to spice up the show, but in a limited fashion. The deeper things go sometimes in those shows, the better it seems!

In a run of one of my theater shows a couple of years ago in Wichita, I did an envelope-based Q & A that basically involved handing each theater-goer a coin envelope and a question card as they picked up their tickets and came in the door. They were to fill them out, seal them, and place them in the glass bowl at the front of the stage. Typical stuff. People actually loved it because they felt like they were very "involved" in the show right from the get-go, even if I didn't select their question to answer at the end of the show. During the middle of this very show, I performed 4DT as usual. While the two routines didn't segue into one another directly, it didn't seem to be overkill for the audience in any way. In fact, they spoke of the Q&A as the most amazing thing that I did, and I used nothing more than a simple one-a***d and a lot of c**d r*****g. That show played monthly for 12 months and was a lot of fun to do.

I suppose I said all of that to basically say that it CAN in fact work QUITE WELL under certain circumstances; however, it's not something that I do in ALL of my performances across the board. While I still perform 4DT quite regularly, even in corporate shows, the Q & A I now perform regularly doesn't use envelopes at all and requires no set-up.

The fact that you are asking for advice on such makes me think that you are already aware of this, or at the very least see the potential pitfalls.
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Sep 2, 2016 12:53PM)
Very well said and written, Curtis :) ! Jan
Message: Posted by: CurtWaltermire (Sep 2, 2016 03:41PM)
Thank you, Jan. I'm logged in here very seldom, but I try to be as helpful as I can!
Message: Posted by: helder (Sep 2, 2016 06:07PM)
[quote]On Sep 2, 2016, CurtWaltermire wrote:
I have actually performed both of these type of routines in the same show with great success in the past, but I agree with Jan that it can be overkill and that culture and audience need to be greatly taken into consideration.

In a corporate after-dinner show, I believe in most cases it may become a bit of a drudgery for an audience, depending upon the presentation and the performer. In my experience, most corporate audiences that I perform for have very limited knowledge of me and even mentalism itself prior to the show. I purposely make my effects and routines very commercial and not too involved or complicated. Anything too deep and I seem to lose people. Not to mention the fact that any pre-show work if needed can be difficult depending upon the event.

In a private, in-home type of environment (or a psychic party or something similar) or public shows where people are buying tickets to see a mentalist/mind-reader, it seems to play much better. When I do a public show, I am a bit more relaxed and take more time to add readings and things to spice up the show, but in a limited fashion. The deeper things go sometimes in those shows, the better it seems!

In a run of one of my theater shows a couple of years ago in Wichita, I did an envelope-based Q & A that basically involved handing each theater-goer a coin envelope and a question card as they picked up their tickets and came in the door. They were to fill them out, seal them, and place them in the glass bowl at the front of the stage. Typical stuff. People actually loved it because they felt like they were very "involved" in the show right from the get-go, even if I didn't select their question to answer at the end of the show. During the middle of this very show, I performed 4DT as usual. While the two routines didn't segue into one another directly, it didn't seem to be overkill for the audience in any way. In fact, they spoke of the Q&A as the most amazing thing that I did, and I used nothing more than a simple one-a***d and a lot of c**d r*****g. That show played monthly for 12 months and was a lot of fun to do.

I suppose I said all of that to basically say that it CAN in fact work QUITE WELL under certain circumstances; however, it's not something that I do in ALL of my performances across the board. While I still perform 4DT quite regularly, even in corporate shows, the Q & A I now perform regularly doesn't use envelopes at all and requires no set-up.

The fact that you are asking for advice on such makes me think that you are already aware of this, or at the very least see the potential pitfalls. [/quote]


That's exactly my opinion. Very well explained.

Thanks