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Topic: Pre-made Stacks To have
Message: Posted by: Soumyajit (Aug 28, 2016 05:41PM)
Hey Conjurers,

As I practice more, I get new decks of cards every other day. Now I have a few extra that I would love to arrange in pre-made stacks that I can use for self-working trick practice or showing magic at a moment's notice. So what are the best stacks that should be ready?

I have Si-Stebbins CHASED and a red/black deck. Anything else I should make?

Please let me know.

Thanks,
Soumyajit
Message: Posted by: marc_carrion (Aug 28, 2016 07:31PM)
The Si-Stebbins is a great idea. You can also set a deck for neither blind nor stupid, and then you are ready for out of this world (I'm not sure which one is the red/black you mentioned above). Check some poker deals and spelling tricks. Lew Brooks has a book (and DVD) called Stack Attack with different effects based on stacks. If you want to go a little bit further learn the Tamariz, Aronson, or others and those have some of the poker deals, spelling and other build in effects. There is another section on this forum dedicated to that (just above this one)

Marc
Message: Posted by: Soumyajit (Aug 28, 2016 07:49PM)
Thank you so much. The red/black is just alternating red black. So if the spectator randomly picks a card and put it some where else, you immediately know which it is and it reset instantly :P
Message: Posted by: marc_carrion (Aug 28, 2016 08:11PM)
Check Tamariz's Neither Blind nor Stupid. Then you can go into any Out of this World. Two classics worth knowing.
Message: Posted by: Soumyajit (Aug 28, 2016 09:17PM)
Thank you, I will definitely check it out. Just read about them in another thread.
Message: Posted by: karnak (Aug 31, 2016 10:47AM)
[quote]On Aug 28, 2016, Soumyajit wrote:
The red/black is just alternating red black. So if the spectator randomly picks a card and put it some where else, you immediately know which it is and it reset instantly :P [/quote]

When I first read this, my immediate reaction was, "That's brilliant! Why have I never read/heard/thought of this before?"

But then I thought about it some more, and realized one small possible problem or difficulty with it.

If a spectator selects, removes, looks at, and then replaces a card (presumably not putting it right back into the *same* exact spot in the deck where it came from), then yes, the alternating red/black sequence of the deck as a whole will be disrupted, no matter where else the card might be re-inserted. The card now in between a red and a black card (which will therefore create either two reds or two blacks together) will be easy to spot as the chosen selection.

However, there will be not just one, but *two* such disruptions of the alternating red/black pattern in the deck: one where the chosen card is *replaced*, but also another one where the chosen card was *removed*.

This could easily result, it seems to me, in mis-identifying the chosen card (by identifying the *wrong* spot, of the two which will now exist, where the alternating red/black order of the deck has been compromised.

I guess if you are able to ensure that the spectator returns his selection to a spot sufficiently remote from where it was drawn, and can sort of keep track as to which end of the deck it's in, such confusion might be avoidable. Any other thoughts or suggestions?
Message: Posted by: marc_carrion (Aug 31, 2016 11:18AM)
If you use a S*S*****s arrangement you still have red/black and can easily identify the card that was moved. Also, you can use a different red/black distribution to accomplish something very similar, but the advantage that you can freely shuffle the deck and still find the selection, pm me if you want more details :D
Message: Posted by: SamChak (Sep 1, 2016 03:12AM)
[quote]On Aug 31, 2016, karnak wrote:
I guess if you are able to ensure that the spectator returns his selection to a spot sufficiently remote from where it was drawn, and can sort of keep track as to which end of the deck it's in, such confusion might be avoidable. Any other thoughts or suggestions? [/quote]

Simple! As soon as the spectator removes her chosen card, the performer immediately cuts the deck at the position where the chosen card is removed, and gestures the spectator (while holding the bottom packet in left hand) to memorize it or show it to her neighbors, and then casually completes the cut by bringing the left-handed packet (bottom) on top of the right-handed packet (top).

When the spectator replaces the card back to the deck, naturally she can be guided to lift the a number of cards and bury her chosen card approximately in the middle of the deck. This way, you can guarantee that [b]only a pair of color cards is resulted[/b] when the deck is spread.
Message: Posted by: SamChak (Sep 1, 2016 05:02AM)
[quote]On Aug 28, 2016, Soumyajit wrote:
So what are the best stacks that should be ready?

I have Si-Stebbins and a red/black deck. Anything else I should make?[/quote]

The Si Stebbins stack, a cyclic mathematical card stack, is good enough for beginners. Before you delve into any memorized stack work, learn how to improve classical card magic using the Si Stebbins stack. Memorized stack work is usually for serious card workers who have a deck already memorized and have the ability to execute upper intermediate and advanced level card sleights. False shuffles, false cuts, false deals, undo a spectator's cut, and controls that preserve the stack order are generally the prerequisites for memorized stack work.

Here is a practice test for you:

Construct a simple "[b]Any Card At Any Number (A.C.A.A.N)[/b]" effect using the Si Stebbins stack.
Message: Posted by: marc_carrion (Sep 1, 2016 06:06AM)
Hi Sam,

I would disagree on a small point on your recommendations. I think the SiStebbins needs the same level of work on false shuffles and cuts. It's actually very disarming when combined with a couple of faros from a NDO. I would not say the SiStebbins is 'good enough' for beginners. Beginners need to learn the same basic handling for the SiStebbins that advanced magicians would use on a memorized deck. That said, I agree that starting with a SiStebbins is easier than starting with a memorized deck, but I think the ACAAN is a bad example. I don't use the SiStebbins calculations, that is too complex and distract from the presentation :D, I found it much easier to use a memorized deck in that case, the card/number recall is much faster. There are other tricks with the SiStebbins that would require only the main calculation (+-3 in CHaSeD order).

Marc
Message: Posted by: Soumyajit (Sep 1, 2016 08:38AM)
Thanks for all the replies and suggestions.

Karnak's reply is correct :) Yes that is a possible problem and yes it is usually taken care of by closely keeping tab of which part of the deck the card was taken from and where it was returned. Samchak's solution is perfect. And since you are always doing false shuffles to keep the integrity of the stack intact, it is not difficult to track positions. Somehow I have always been able to use this stack without much problems, guess I am just lucky :P I am going to PM marc for his suggestion of a stack too :)

Sam I know Si-Stebbins can provide a great deal of joy for beginners and I am enjoying learning a number of tricks with it. I am also enjoying learning false shuffles and cuts to keep the deck intact. I was asking for the memorized stack just to get a taste of what it is and the things can be done with it. For me (and I guess many people), one of the coolest things is to know if you can get this set of moves down, you can advance to something way cooler :) That creates a goal in the mind and keeps me at getting the basics down pat. I know I ask too many questions but this is how I learn :P

By the way I can tell you exactly the number of cards picked up using a Si-Stebbins, but I guess every one knows how to do that, hehe.

Once again thanks to all for your kind replies.

Thanks,
Soumyajit
Message: Posted by: SamChak (Sep 1, 2016 11:55AM)
[quote]On Sep 1, 2016, Soumyajit wrote:
Sam I know Si-Stebbins can provide a great deal of joy for beginners and I am enjoying learning a number of tricks with it.[/quote]

The point I am trying to make is, familiarize yourself with [b]Si Stebbins stack properties[/b] (including order number, fast location using modular arithmetic, shuffle application, and quick setup), and unlock the full potential of Si Stebbins stack in classical card magic (not limited to '[i]Lost and Found[/i]' effects), before moving to Memorized Stack. Bring out your creativity to solve certain issues in some classic card magic using a stacked deck. Compared to Memorized Stacks, the Si Stebbins stack is easy to learn and can be equally devastating when used cleverly in the right context. When you are ready, pick a Memorized Stack System, such as Mnemonica (Tamariz), Aronson, Joyal, Breakthrough Card System (Osterlind), etc.

By the way, have you mastered the [b]G.W. Hunter False Shuffle[/b]? If you have the Bee Playing Cards or similar back design, then the [b]Optical False Shuffle[/b] is more deceptive.
Message: Posted by: Soumyajit (Sep 1, 2016 12:57PM)
[quote]On Sep 1, 2016, SamChak wrote:
[quote]On Sep 1, 2016, Soumyajit wrote:
Sam I know Si-Stebbins can provide a great deal of joy for beginners and I am enjoying learning a number of tricks with it.[/quote]

The point I am trying to make is, familiarize yourself with [b]Si Stebbins stack properties[/b] (including order number, fast location using modular arithmetic, shuffle application, and quick setup), and unlock the full potential of Si Stebbins stack in classical card magic (not limited to '[i]Lost and Found[/i]' effects), before moving to Memorized Stack. Bring out your creativity to solve certain issues in some classic card magic using a stacked deck. Compared to Memorized Stacks, the Si Stebbins stack is easy to learn and can be equally devastating when used cleverly in the right context. When you are ready, pick a Memorized Stack System, such as Mnemonica (Tamariz), Aronson, Joyal, Breakthrough Card System (Osterlind), etc.

By the way, have you mastered the [b]G.W. Hunter False Shuffle[/b]? If you have the Bee Playing Cards or similar back design, then the [b]Optical False Shuffle[/b] is more deceptive. [/quote]

I am mostly using optical false shuffle and Zarrow shuffle (not great at either but practicing). I am also trying the Truffle Shuffle but not able to do the final cascade at all as the two packets are divided. I will look into the G.W. Hunter False Shuffle.

By the way just got my Bicycle decks today, excited to handle them for the first time. Already tried the trick I mentioned in another post using Blue Back Bikes. Worked like a charm :P

I am working with the Si-Stebbins and I do plan to master it first before I actually start learning other stacks.

Regarding quick setup, is it possible to quickly setup the Si-Stebbins? I always thought it was tough to set it up under pressure. Won't people notice you weaving a long story and trying to get the 52 cards in some order? Please PM if there is a way to accomplish this.

Thanks again for your guidance.
Soumyajit
Message: Posted by: JBSmith1978 (Sep 1, 2016 11:12PM)
From a shuffled deck you can use Hamman's Chinese Shuffle. Or at least as a starting point.
Message: Posted by: marc_carrion (Sep 2, 2016 05:58AM)
Darwin Ortiz published a method in 'At the Card Table' to get to the SiStebbins from a new deck using two faros.
Message: Posted by: Doug Trouten (Sep 2, 2016 08:57PM)
If you're working with a Si Stebbins stack, do yourself a favor and get a copy of Martyn Smith's "Up the Ante." I believe he published it through Magicshop.co.uk. It's easy to do and completely mind-blowing. Although I use a different stack for this effect, it works with Si Stebbins and Smith includes specific ideas on doing "Up the Ante" with a Si Stebbins stack, including a method for setting up the stack.
Message: Posted by: SamChak (Sep 2, 2016 10:44PM)
[quote]On Sep 1, 2016, Soumyajit wrote:
I am also trying the Truffle Shuffle but not able to do the final cascade at all as the two packets are divided.

I am working with the Si-Stebbins and I do plan to master it first before I actually start learning other stacks.[/quote]

I'd advise you to master the [b]Tabled Riffle Shuffle[/b] before moving to [b]In-the-hands Riffle Shuffle[/b]. When you can perform both types of Riffle Shuffles easily, then start practicing [b]False Riffle Shuffle[/b]. Have you learned various techniques to glimpse or peek a card in a stack, which are taught in [b]Daryl's Encyclopedia of Card Sleights[/b]?

Also look up the Si Stebbins Stack, which was originally published in [b]Si Stebbins' Card Tricks and the Way They Are Performed[/b]. What card tricks do you perform with this stack?
Message: Posted by: Soumyajit (Sep 3, 2016 09:18AM)
[quote]On Sep 2, 2016, Doug Trouten wrote:
If you're working with a Si Stebbins stack, do yourself a favor and get a copy of Martyn Smith's "Up the Ante." I believe he published it through Magicshop.co.uk. It's easy to do and completely mind-blowing. Although I use a different stack for this effect, it works with Si Stebbins and Smith includes specific ideas on doing "Up the Ante" with a Si Stebbins stack, including a method for setting up the stack. [/quote]

Thanks for the Suggestion Doug. I will definitely look up "Up The Ante".


[quote]On Sep 2, 2016, SamChak wrote:
[quote]On Sep 1, 2016, Soumyajit wrote:
I am also trying the Truffle Shuffle but not able to do the final cascade at all as the two packets are divided.

I am working with the Si-Stebbins and I do plan to master it first before I actually start learning other stacks.[/quote]

I'd advise you to master the [b]Tabled Riffle Shuffle[/b] before moving to [b]In-the-hands Riffle Shuffle[/b]. When you can perform both types of Riffle Shuffles easily, then start practicing [b]False Riffle Shuffle[/b]. Have you learned various techniques to glimpse or peek a card in a stack, which are taught in [b]Daryl's Encyclopedia of Card Sleights[/b]?

Also look up the Si Stebbins Stack, which was originally published in [b]Si Stebbins' Card Tricks and the Way They Are Performed[/b]. What card tricks do you perform with this stack? [/quote]

Sam, to answer your questions, I am practicing the on the table riffle shuffle everyday and the moves are getting better. I can do In the Hands Riffle Shuffle much better though :) I can use couple of techniques to peek at cards but for some reason I am averse to start practicing the buckles as of now. I know in due time I have to get to them.

I have not gone through the Si Stebbins' book you mentioned. For the time being I can perform following tricks: 1) Telling the number of cards cut by spectator, 2) The card removed by spectator, 3) Reveal the position of a card in the stack spectator thinks in his mind (with some theatrics :P) etc.
Message: Posted by: BAGWIZ (Sep 3, 2016 09:51AM)
I regularly use Osterlind's "Breakthrough Card System." It takes a little patience and practice, but combined with a good false shuffle and cut, it's amazing.
Message: Posted by: SamChak (Sep 3, 2016 02:27PM)
[quote]On Sep 3, 2016, Soumyajit wrote:
For the time being I can perform following tricks: 1) Telling the number of cards cut by spectator, 2) The card removed by spectator, 3) Reveal the position of a card in the stack spectator thinks in his mind (with some theatrics :P) etc. [/quote]

Another interesting feature of a good stacked deck is that it allows you to perform entertaining spelling effects, which are only limited by your own imagination. One particular effect that engages the spectator's attention and associates spelling with close-up mentalism is the "[b]Truth or Lie?[/b]" plot. You can use the Si Stebbins Stack as a lie detector to discern whether the spectator lies or tells the truth.

[B]EFFECT[/B]: A card is selected and lost in the deck. The magician asks a few questions about the selected card (Red/Black, Suit, Spot/Court, High/Low), in the answers the spectator can either tell an inconvenient truth or a reassuring lie. The magician then spells the spectator's answer, one card for each letter. At the end of each spelled answer, the magician's deck displays the correct answer, thus revealing whether or not the spectator lied.

May the Force be with you! With [b]Force, Peek, Shuffle (F.P.S)[/b], you can do miracles with any Stacked Deck.

[img]http://s11.postimg.cc/xtaz5avqb/image.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Soumyajit (Sep 5, 2016 11:42AM)
Sorry for the late reply Sam. I do a name spelling trick without the use of a stack. I have not tried the same effect using Si-Stebbins stack but come to think of it it could be even better as the spectator just has to think of a card and not choose one.

Once again thanks a lot for showing me the way :)

Soumyajit
Message: Posted by: SamChak (Sep 5, 2016 10:58PM)
[quote]On Sep 5, 2016, Soumyajit wrote:
Sorry for the late reply Sam. I do a name spelling trick without the use of a stack.[/quote]

Look at David Blaine's marvelous spelling trick that can't be explained. Hope you can draw inspiration from his performance.
It seemed that he used a memorized stack called "[b]Mnemonica[/b]" aka the Tamariz Stack.

[youtube]LKr4m3RvcD8[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Sep 6, 2016 12:15AM)
[quote]On Aug 28, 2016, Soumyajit wrote:
I have Si-Stebbins CHASED and a red/black deck. Anything else I should make?[/quote]

I keep a medium sized box with older decks in it. Not quite hat I perform with quality but not "trow away" by any means. I will sit while watching TV and put them all into NDO then make several Stebbins, several Aronson decks to use as practice decks and toss them aside till I feel like re-stacking. I also keep quite a few set up for practicing the "Vernon Poker Deal" "Sam the Bellhop" "Further Than That" "The Big Deal".... that way I can practice several times in a row without re-stacking. I don't do it so much now but 20+ years ago, it was an invaluable method. Now I just keep them stacked in the box so I can grab one on the way out the door if I feel the need.

I also keep a couple sets of "flash cards" (In Aronson order with numbers on back written in Sharpie) to practice number / card recognition.
Message: Posted by: alecStephenson (Sep 6, 2016 11:40PM)
If you are interested in only R/B alternation I would recommend a SiSteb(3,2,3,4) instead of a SiSteb(3). It is just as easy to remember (2,3,4 for the 2nd,3rd,4th suits), and because the four numbers average to 3, it is just as easy to get in and out of NDO (you just need to make small numerical changes to the Ortiz thing).
Message: Posted by: Soumyajit (Sep 7, 2016 06:34AM)
Thanks to everyone for their precious inputs. I hope I can put them to good use :)

Thanks,
Soumyajit
Message: Posted by: Geoff Pfeiffer (Sep 11, 2016 12:18PM)
Setup a deck for shuffleboard by Simon Aronson, what a great trick. A version of this trick was just on Penn and Tellers new season of Fool Us.
Message: Posted by: SamChak (Sep 12, 2016 03:20PM)
I think he meant [b]Shuffle-bored[/b] (1980) by Simon Aronson.

[img]https://s9.postimg.cc/os5baog5r/aronsonsimonshufflebored.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: Geoff Pfeiffer (Sep 12, 2016 04:40PM)
SamChak, you are correct, thank you for the correction on the name. This is a great trick.
Message: Posted by: SamChak (Sep 12, 2016 09:18PM)
[quote]On Sep 12, 2016, Geoff Pfeiffer wrote:
SamChak, you are correct, thank you for the correction on the name. This is a great trick. [/quote]

Don't mention it, Geoff. Some word processors use spell checker to auto-correct common spelling or typing errors, saving time for the user.

Simon Aronson is one of the [b]Greatest Architects of Card Magic[/b] who changed the world of structurally simple tricks with ingenious design and synergistic innovation.
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Sep 13, 2016 01:00AM)
[quote]On Sep 12, 2016, SamChak wrote:
I think he meant [b]Shuffle-bored[/b] (1980) by Simon Aronson.

[img]https://s9.postimg.cc/os5baog5r/aronsonsimonshufflebored.jpg[/img] [/quote]
As an alternative to a full Aronson stack, check out "Jepordy" by Paul Green (on his "In The Trenches" DVD) it is pretty much the same effect but with a "Jepordy" game show presentation.

That is where I first learned the routine many years ago on his vhs tape of the same name. Paul is one of my favorite performers and teachers of all time. :-)
Message: Posted by: Soumyajit (Sep 13, 2016 12:54PM)
Hehe, I will need months to process all the info presented here and use them to respectable levels :)
Message: Posted by: JassTan (Nov 4, 2016 05:09PM)
I have tried out a couple stack effects from Lew Brooks' Stack Attack, mentioned marc_carrion, there are quite nice.
Message: Posted by: BobMillerMAGIC! (Feb 18, 2019 12:40PM)
If you can instantly memorize ten cards while doing another trick, then you can perform Shuffle-Bored impromptu. A killer ending for a card set!
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Feb 26, 2019 12:41PM)
If you read the good stuff you'd know that THE EQUALIZER in the TREND SETTER section of LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Vol. 3 - is my version of Shuffleboard - NO Memory work involved.

That volume also contains my updating of QUANTUM LEAPS, DINGLE'S DECEPTIO9NS, NUMERO UNO, THE GREAT DIVIDE.
One heck of a bargain. You really do have to start reading the good stuff, guys!
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Feb 26, 2019 03:39PM)
Joshua Jay has a wonderful version of Shuffle-bored in his second Penguin Lecture. Like Mr Lorayneís version it can be done from a shuffled deck. Unlike Mr Lorayneís version it requires literally no time and no previous trick to set up. You just take the shuffled deck and begin instantly. Itís very sneaky and has a cool Shuffle Procedure that can be done stand up and walk around and involves 4 spectators.
Message: Posted by: aabc (Apr 2, 2019 02:04PM)
As a more natural looking alternative to Stebbins, you could set it up in Osterlind's B.C.S, too.