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Topic: Second Coming by Fraser Parker and Ross Tayler
Message: Posted by: BMWGuy (Dec 15, 2016 12:48AM)
Hey guys,

So earlier today after work I skyped for the longest time with Fraser Parker, and he performed some of the items from this new book which is coming out soon.

Here is the website:

http://www.fraserparker.co.uk/secondcoming.htm

I am lucky to call Fraser a friend, but more that I got to experience first hand some of the effects in the book performed for me.

Here are my thoughts about each effect that he performed for me:

The first effect he performed was a reverse type name guess in which Fraser apparently had the name written down before like a prediction.

I thought of the name Rick, since I had just finished watching The Walking Dead, and he had it written on the billet.

there was a process, but it didn't seem like a process, and it wasnt involved, not what I remember

Afterwards, we discussed the method, and though simple in nature, elegant and layered is the correct word for the method.

If you liked False Messiah, this method is more streamlined, and there are actually 2 methods that are all rolled up into one. Very nice. I was smiling since this is something that most of you will take and run with it.

He also explained that Peter Turner and Michael Murray as always were inspirations in some of these methods.

The above could also be used for a word as well.

The next effect he performed on me was like a propless name guess.

He and Ross feel this is the best solution at guessing names completely propless.

Great effect, in which many subtle principles are used indiscretely, and yet all weave together to create something.

Fraser asked me to think of someone, and I thought of the name Ross to try and catch him out.

Again, this is further refined, as if False Messiah couldn't improve, well they have done it, and this time for those people that worry about it not being foolproof, we arrive

at a method that will 95% or greater success rate at getting it correct. Heck you can even get 100% rate, if you direct your spectator, with a simple method, and you use this principle, if not you have a 95% or greater success rate. Forget about trying to guess, with this, I believe is the ultimate way to guess a spectators name.

What I like about the above is that you get updated principles, framing, and even new ideas, principles and thoughts that are all helpful in achieving the impossible

Fraser says there are variations on some of the principles that you can play around with.

It is also possible to use the same method on the name guess in reverse with spectator as the mind reader.

So far this is all that we Skyped about and both routines are easily adaptable to what and how you want to present and perform this.

Cant wait till this is released, and purchase this as I did with False Messiah and some of Frasers other work.

for me, Frasers best work was Memoria, IMHO. I think based on what I experienced today, Second coming, could either replace Memoria or come in close second.

Alex Alejandro
Message: Posted by: Nick Singh (Dec 15, 2016 01:01AM)
Can this only be done with names? What about names of countries or cities?
Message: Posted by: BMWGuy (Dec 15, 2016 07:00AM)
Yes as it will be even simpler
Message: Posted by: KASASAGI (Dec 15, 2016 09:08AM)
Is it language restricted?
Does it suit other language without alphabet like japanese.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Dec 15, 2016 10:54AM)
You can't beat a second coming.
Message: Posted by: Adrien L. (Dec 15, 2016 11:51AM)
Fraser performed some of these effects on me and what I find particularly beautiful is how much is achieved with so little script. Each word has been carefully chosen to have a specific set of functions and the result is, to me, something very similar to what the real deal would look like.

IMHO, this is the best propless name divination to date!
Message: Posted by: Adrien L. (Dec 15, 2016 11:53AM)
Sadly, I'm almost sure this WON'T work in languages without an alphabet.

[quote]On Dec 15, 2016, KASASAGI wrote:
Is it language restricted?
Does it suit other language without alphabet like japanese. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Jacob Smith (Dec 16, 2016 05:18PM)
I just read the first few edited pages of Second Coming...

Second Coming is an understatement for this project....

I've been lucky enough to be friends with Ross and Fraser for a few years now. Being friends with them has given me a front row seat to being a test subject and tester of the material being presented In almost all of their work.

The name guess and the star sign guess alone are worth the price of admission!

A few disclaimers...

If you don't have a personality, conversational skills to wrap the works around or you're not comfortable feeling like a real mind reader to your audiences then this work won't be for you...

If you're a devoted student looking to put your full heart, soul and mind into truly creating an experience that feels like real mind reading then this will definitely be a necessity in your journey in the art of mentalism!

XX,
Jacob
Message: Posted by: psychicturtle (Dec 18, 2016 05:30PM)
Being a friend of Fraser, I have been privy to some of the effects that are going to be in this, and I am extremely impressed. As someone who loves propless mentalism this kind of work is a dream come true for me. It's not for those who want to 'do tricks', it's for those who have the presence of mind and ability to take someone on a brief journey into their, or even your mind, using the brilliant techniques and thoroughly thought out scripting in this forthcoming book.

I am a fan of Fraser's work, it really is excellent and I love what I have read so far. This will be something very special.
Message: Posted by: magiclarsen (Jan 5, 2017 10:42AM)
Very much looking forward to getting this. I loved Rose. MOOL was also great. Definitely see how they were influenced By Kenton!
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 5, 2017 10:57AM)
Waiting for mine to arrive from across the pond ;)
Message: Posted by: Jacob Smith (Jan 7, 2017 12:34PM)
It's finally here everyone!

The Second Coming is truly an immaculate conception...by that I don't only mean because it's a mutant love child between two of mentalism's most creative fooling performers. This material is a complete crash course in how to use the propless model that Fraser & Ross have laid out and been promoting in their ground breaking works from Ouija to the most recent free gem MOOL.

Some of you are already fretting...Concerned that this is a collection of strictly propless effects...That would be where you'd be wrong!

Other than a treasure trove of propless methods for guessing names,predictions, the BEST star sign divination ever conceived, reverse name guesses and even a new fresh thinking on Hellstromism (the only approach I will use from this point forward), you're going to find a myriad of concepts for new takes on billets, cards and even some beautiful phone effects!

I will be recording a review this once I give it another look through, but on the first read...my head is seriously spinning with dances of beautiful concepts and honest deception! This is a tome that will undoubtedly be quoted as a landmark in the next frontier of mentalism!

XX,
Jakob

P.S. Seriously on the star sign divination...it's so frigg'n great and it's structured theatrically within it's inner workings!!
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 7, 2017 01:00PM)
[quote]On Jan 7, 2017, magician 336 wrote:
It's finally here everyone!

The Second Coming is truly an immaculate conception...by that I don't only mean because it's a mutant love child between two of mentalism's most creative fooling performers. This material is a complete crash course in how to use the propless model that Fraser & Ross have laid out and been promoting in their ground breaking works from Ouija to the most recent free gem MOOL.

Some of you are already fretting...Concerned that this is a collection of strictly propless effects...That would be where you'd be wrong!

Other than a treasure trove of propless methods for guessing names,predictions, the BEST star sign divination ever conceived, reverse name guesses and even a new fresh thinking on Hellstromism (the only approach I will use from this point forward), you're going to find a myriad of concepts for new takes on billets, cards and even some beautiful phone effects!

I will be recording a review this once I give it another look through, but on the first read...my head is seriously spinning with dances of beautiful concepts and honest deception! This is a tome that will undoubtedly be quoted as a landmark in the next frontier of mentalism!

XX,
Jakob

P.S. Seriously on the star sign divination...it's so frigg'n great and it's structured theatrically within it's inner workings!! [/quote]

I hate you right now. :|
Message: Posted by: Jacob Smith (Jan 7, 2017 01:22PM)
Well I love you brother ;*

XX,
Jakob
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 7, 2017 02:00PM)
[quote]On Jan 7, 2017, magician 336 wrote:
Well I love you brother ;*

XX,
Jakob [/quote]

Bwah ha ha ha ha. Trolololol.
Message: Posted by: BMWGuy (Jan 8, 2017 12:17AM)
Hey guys,

I have to echo Jakobs thoughts.

If you liked False Messiah, this is more streamlined and a lot easier to perform.

For those that are on the fence, whether propless methods are for you.

If you have dabbled with propless methods before and you have studied Frasers work in the past, this to me, is on a league of its own.

The thought structure behind every routine and idea is amazing, and I love how streamlined and clean everything is.

No more worrying, for some of you, whether this will work or not, since Skyping with Fraser almost a month ago, and got a sneak peek at some of the methods, not all.

I absolutely fell in love with the methods, because they are what they seem. Nothing is hidden and everything seems so fair and out in the open.

As Peter turner would call it, the re-frame works beautifully, and this time around, the structure, and flow of the propless arena seems to shine.

I received my copy the other day, and immediately read through it once, and let it all soak in.

I will read it once more between tonight and tomorrow, and then start to pick my favorites.

Whenever I purchase a release, I try to get at least 1 if not more good information, theory, structure, idea, presentation, routine, effect, out of what I purchased, and to me that was worth it.

Having read through this once, I can immediately see myself practicing and re-reading at least 3-4 effects. From False Messiah, I perform two effects anytime I don't have cards on me, and want to put it more propless effects in. From this, I am already doubling the effects that I will perform.

As I said before, more streamlined, that is the key.

There is some genious thinking from both Fraser and Ross here.

Pay attention to the finer details.

Great release.

More later, after I have practiced and performed some of the effects.

Alex Alejandro
Message: Posted by: MindAgent (Jan 8, 2017 10:34AM)
This sounds insanely clean. So clean that it makes me doubt it.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 8, 2017 12:34PM)
[quote]On Jan 8, 2017, MindAgent wrote:
This sounds insanely clean. So clean that it makes me doubt it. [/quote]

I wouldn't doubt it. If you are familiar with any of Fraser's material, they all contain pretty reliable methods with scripts and ploys which makes the method invisible along with a lot of attention paid to directness and flow of the routine.

There are some propless material which I've seen that made me scratch my head as to why the thing even exists. The audience will not figure out the method because they would be very confused trying to keep track. Fraser's stuff thankfully are not in that vein nor is he using suggestion/hypnosis. It works. They are reliable. He's a magician first and foremost so the design of the routines are virtually surefire except he manipulates via language rather than mechanical means.
Message: Posted by: Jacob Smith (Jan 8, 2017 05:13PM)
As promised, here is a video review that highlights my utter delight with the material found inside Second Coming!

http://bit.ly/2i42SxC

XX,
Jakob
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 10, 2017 04:45PM)
Thanks to great customer service from Fraser (as per usual), reading of Second Coming shall commence now :D
Message: Posted by: Adrien L. (Jan 10, 2017 05:19PM)
Its amazing to see how far Fraser and Ross's ideas have grown. When Ouija came out it felt to me that it was perfect and could not be improved. I'm glad Fraser and Ross didn't feel the same way!

Second Coming is such an inspiring book to read and I agree with Alex that the effects are briliantly streamlined. The name guess is pure genious, the card work is brilliant, the zodiac stuff is beautiful and everything else is great. I can't recomend this enough!!! :)
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 11, 2017 06:38PM)
So I've been working my way through this latest Fraser and Ross, Second Coming and...

...
...
...
...

I'm floored. Thus far I've made my way through the forewords, intro, part of the card work, basic star sign routine, the name guess, and the billet peek (which worked very well today at the office). That billet peek by the way, whoa. It's one of those things where you read it and you go "that's stupid" but what you're doing there is not thinking and acting like a spec would think and act. Something so obvious is only obvious to you because after you have learned it, your opinions have been formed after the fact rather than you having experienced it as a spectator.

This brings me to a very important point in regards to Fraser's and Ross' work which Kenton touches on in his foreword. Kenton states that in modern times, performers have begun to take less chances and what would have been considered normal and obvious/logical approaches to achieving an effect are now considered to be "bold" or "daring." Personally I view it as the curse of aging and maturity in a very general sense. When one gets older they lose perspective because they have accumulated more commonly understood and learned knowledge. Due to this, there's a built in self-limiting mindset which grows more and more as time goes by. This limits our perception of what can and can not be achieved in our performances with XYZ method. This is what makes Second Coming and to be perfectly honest, each release from Fraser and Ross (dare I start calling the duo Frosser from now on? They are essentially joined at the hips when it comes to the work they put out after all) amazing to both learn as well as witness the progression of ideas and methods. The furious pace they put out new work on the surface may look like a money grab but when you actually read the material you fully understand why it had to be released and why certain releases are priced so high.

For example, some of the ideas which started in Ouija were later refined to incredibly lengths in False Messiah. A certain idea used in My Pin in False Messiah has been repurposed here in Second Coming to genius effect (and it's only incorporated into the effect I'm think about in a relatively seemingly small way but makes a huge impact on the effect). One of the main methods used in False Messiah is now used here for cards to great effect. I literally have all of the published works from Fraser and it's a joy to see how much further he has pushed ideas he introduced in older works. Each iteration stripping away more and more of the overt process which were already quite streamlined and infinitely workable (kind of cool how one can go further than infinitely eh?).

I personally can't wait to read the Hellstromism material as well as working through the various alternate routines for the main plots.

Lastly I would like to leave off this initial impression of my partial reading of Second Coming with this: I recall some folks having not read Fraser's work assuming that this was material with incredibly confusing process and/or suggestion or, dare I say, NLP style methods. This is far far far from the fact here. The work Frosser (there, I did it) puts out are in actuality "mechanical" in design. The difference is that the mechanics are all done verbally. Much of it are very direct and clear instructions which your participant will follow very closely but the genius is how they have all been designed in such a way that they will later on believe the instructions to be something completely different after the fact and thus erasing any and all evidence which they could have used to lead back to a method. It's quite brilliant really.

Side note, I've also read MOOL today, I know exactly what I'm going to use that for. A variation of Chandau's take on Memoria with a name guess kicker ending using the DMC Elites :D Oh it's going to be soooooooo good.
Message: Posted by: magiclarsen (Jan 12, 2017 02:59PM)
[quote]On Jan 11, 2017, kissdadookie wrote:
So I've been working my way through this latest Fraser and Ross, Second Coming and...

...
...
...
...

I'm floored. Thus far I've made my way through the forewords, intro, part of the card work, basic star sign routine, the name guess, and the billet peek (which worked very well today at the office). That billet peek by the way, whoa. It's one of those things where you read it and you go "that's stupid" but what you're doing there is not thinking and acting like a spec would think and act. Something so obvious is only obvious to you because after you have learned it, your opinions have been formed after the fact rather than you having experienced it as a spectator.

This brings me to a very important point in regards to Fraser's and Ross' work which Kenton touches on in his foreword. Kenton states that in modern times, performers have begun to take less chances and what would have been considered normal and obvious/logical approaches to achieving an effect are now considered to be "bold" or "daring." Personally I view it as the curse of aging and maturity in a very general sense. When one gets older they lose perspective because they have accumulated more commonly understood and learned knowledge. Due to this, there's a built in self-limiting mindset which grows more and more as time goes by. This limits our perception of what can and can not be achieved in our performances with XYZ method. This is what makes Second Coming and to be perfectly honest, each release from Fraser and Ross (dare I start calling the duo Frosser from now on? They are essentially joined at the hips when it comes to the work they put out after all) amazing to both learn as well as witness the progression of ideas and methods. The furious pace they put out new work on the surface may look like a money grab but when you actually read the material you fully understand why it had to be released and why certain releases are priced so high.

For example, some of the ideas which started in Ouija were later refined to incredibly lengths in False Messiah. A certain idea used in My Pin in False Messiah has been repurposed here in Second Coming to genius effect (and it's only incorporated into the effect I'm think about in a relatively seemingly small way but makes a huge impact on the effect). One of the main methods used in False Messiah is now used here for cards to great effect. I literally have all of the published works from Fraser and it's a joy to see how much further he has pushed ideas he introduced in older works. Each iteration stripping away more and more of the overt process which were already quite streamlined and infinitely workable (kind of cool how one can go further than infinitely eh?).

I personally can't wait to read the Hellstromism material as well as working through the various alternate routines for the main plots.

Lastly I would like to leave off this initial impression of my partial reading of Second Coming with this: I recall some folks having not read Fraser's work assuming that this was material with incredibly confusing process and/or suggestion or, dare I say, NLP style methods. This is far far far from the fact here. The work Frosser (there, I did it) puts out are in actuality "mechanical" in design. The difference is that the mechanics are all done verbally. Much of it are very direct and clear instructions which your participant will follow very closely but the genius is how they have all been designed in such a way that they will later on believe the instructions to be something completely different after the fact and thus erasing any and all evidence which they could have used to lead back to a method. It's quite brilliant really.

Side note, I've also read MOOL today, I know exactly what I'm going to use that for. A variation of Chandau's take on Memoria with a name guess kicker ending using the DMC Elites :D Oh it's going to be soooooooo good. [/quote]


Thanks so much for this review, I was already going to pick up a copy, but you have cemented as to why!
Message: Posted by: MatthewSims (Jan 12, 2017 07:03PM)
Just out of curiosity, how many books has Frasier put out now?
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 12, 2017 07:23PM)
[quote]On Jan 12, 2017, MatthewSims wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how many books has Frasier put out now? [/quote]

4 (True Mysteries 1 & 2, False Messiah, Second Coming). Everything else were basically single item manuscripts.

True Mystery 1 being wholly a solo publication. True Mysteries being a collaborative effort with Gavin O'Rourke-Soccorso. False Messiah and Second Coming being a collaborative effort with Ross.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 12, 2017 07:23PM)
[quote]On Jan 12, 2017, kissdadookie wrote:
[quote]On Jan 12, 2017, MatthewSims wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how many books has Frasier put out now? [/quote]

[/quote]

4 (True Mysteries 1 & 2, False Messiah, Second Coming). Everything else were basically single item manuscripts.

True Mysteries 1 being wholly a solo publication. True Mysteries 2 being a collaborative effort with Gavin O'Rourke-Soccorso. False Messiah and Second Coming being a collaborative effort with Ross.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 13, 2017 11:07AM)
Worked the star sign routine twice so far today. I love it. It's another one of those where you read it and go "meh" but then you try it and it's actually really good.

For those that have Second Coming, I take the miss for when they guess my sign (but there's obviously the occasional hit). I write down my sign first and put it face down on the table before I start the routine. I could use the ploy taught in the book by Peter but I don't want to risk them looking me up later and finding out my real star sign :P
Message: Posted by: watkins13 (Jan 13, 2017 11:53AM)
Going to start reading tonight! I have to say I am very excited and have been looking forward to this one for a while now. Will give a full review once I am finished.
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Jan 13, 2017 06:25PM)
Hi guys,

Alex posted a great review of his initial thoughts above, however I thought I'd chime in here and share my thoughts on "Second Coming" by Ross Taylor and Fraser Parker.

Part 1: Playing Cards
This brief section introduces a few card effects. They provide a GREAT justification for using cards in Mentalism. It's an idea I wasn't familiar with before this, but I really love the way it changes the perception of the cards and what you do with them from tricks to readings.

-Card Prediction: "An unseen card is placed openly in the center of the table. A participant then changes their mind through multiple cards, before settling on one. The card on the table is revealed to be the very card they have in mind."

This is really great. It is definitely a step forward from Ross and Fraser's previous work. It is more deceptive, and also easier for the spectator to follow. This is also virtually 100%. They provide two ways to handle the suit of the card. The first way is sheer genius. It's a little less accurate than the second method, but a little cleaner as well. But honestly, if done the way it is written, I would say it will work 95% of the time. The second method is bolder, and will end 100% correct every time. Honestly, the two methods are very similar and the differences are mot even going to be noticeable to a spectator. I really like this and can see myself using it. I tried it out on the girlfriend and it passed with flying colors. At the end she was really dumbfounded and kept asking about how I got the card. Anything that impresses the misses is always a keeper.

-Think Of A Card: "A spectator thinks of any card freely. The performer is able to divine the card they are thinking of."

This is perhaps the best propless way to know what card someone is just thinking of that I've ever seen. It's very similar to the previous effect, but in reverse. There are some very nice moments which really solidify the impossible nature of the effect. The way they deal with the suits is quite brilliant and practically comes for free.

-Kings Force: "A spectator spreads a shuffled deck of cards towards themselves and remember any card in the middle. The performer is able to divine the card(s) they thought of."

Okay... this is SHEER GENIUS. It comes from their "Kings never die" tapes which I do not have. Boy oh boy I was missing out on a GREAT routine. It is literally the best way to know someone's thought of card that I've ever seen. It's not propless, but it is very natural, essentially nothing ambiguous for the spectator, and EXTREMELY hard hitting. I will be using this a LOT. I performed this for my girlfriend as well and again, it passed with flying colors. She loved it. So do I. It really is great, forward thinking which I've never seen anything like. This one method is worth the price of the book. It's easy, and it's 100%. BRILLIANT.



Part 2: Star Signs, Peeks, Name/Word guesses

-Knowing Stars: "In a casual conversation with your spectator, you know their star sign."

I'm not big in star signs, however, this will be the only method
I use from now on. The spectator appears to guess your star sign. In this process, you narrow theirs down to just 2 signs to pump between. It is great thinking again. It is very simple and is literally over in about 15 seconds. It seems like they give you absolutely no information that would benefit you. I will say though, this is really most effective with a time delay between getting their star sign and telling them their star sign. There is an idea presented later in the book (a peek) which elevates this to a whole new level. It makes it impossible to backtrack. Again, this is the best star sign divination I've seen and this is the only one I'll ever use. It's THAT good. Oh and the best part is that the spectator doesn't need to anything besides their star signs.

-Your Lucky Star: This is Peter Turner's force of a star sign. It is a great way to have your spectator be able to accurately guess your star sign. It works great in the last routine (which is why it is presented in this book.) There's no process here. You simply tell them a little about yourself and have the spectator try to intuit what star sign you are. The downside here is the spectator must be pretty familiar with star signs in order for it to work.

-Folded Paper Peek: "What follows is a way to under very natural circumstances get a full peek of multiple pieces of information using nothing but an ordinary piece of paper and a marker."

Again, this is brilliant (I'm sounding very redundant today.) It is a very natural peek which allows you all the time you need to get your peek. That said, this is a peek which must not be presented under a challenge setting. It is best if used in a reading in order to tel them specific information about themselves. (Star sign, birthday, etc.) The peek is very deceptive under these circumstances though and all appears above board throughout.

-Original Peek: "This is the peek the previous peek was based off of."

This is a super bold peek which will not be right for everything. I don't think it really works for writing down their information for you to guess later, however, this is the perfect peek for the knowing signs routine mentioned earlier. It is so natural and creates such a massive disconnect that even the most astute spectators wouldn't be able to know how you got to their starsign.

-Name Guess Reverse (Written): "This is a very quick and elegant solution to the 'spectator as mindreader' plot where the spectator guessing the name the performer is thinking of.

This is so very very good. This is really a piece which shows how much Ross and Fraser have grown as creators. This is very nicely layered so that each piece of the puzzle makes the other piece seem irrelevant. So much of this is genius. The performer writes down a name on a piece of paper and the spectator is able to guess it. It's that clean. It's that simple. And it's a quick process. Gave this the girlfriend test and it passed. I don't really have the space here to discuss each and ever piece of this effect because it is many things working together to create a masterpiece. This is the best spectator as mindreading plot I've seen using a name guess. It really feels impossible and the spectator will walk away genuinely clueless as to how they were able to get the name. It feels as close to the real deal as you can get. I love this one. I'll use it.

-Object (any word):

Essentially, this briefly explains how you can use the method from the previous effect to have the spectator guess any object or word you wrote down rather than a name.

-Name Guess: "The spectator thinks of the name of someone. You are able to divine it."

This is the best propless name guess ever. Easily. Again, it is nicely layered with deception which will make it very difficult for the spectator to back track. Ross and Fraser have come up with a new reframe which is more natural and allows the spectator to make the mental jump rather than the performer having to explicitly state it. What is REALLY cool about this is that in the process of getting the first letter of the name their thinking of, you also get the second letter for free. It's really great thinking. There's also something really brilliant here in that when you actually get the first letter, it seems as if the process was unsuccessful so you use a different method to get the name. This means the process will be canceled out as the method because they believe it didn't work. They will remember the mind reading process as them simply thinking of their word and saying it silently in their head. This makes the effect seem even grander. Again, this is fabulous. The best propless name guess I've ever come across. I love it and will use it.

-Reverse Name Guess: "This section describes how to use the previous method as a 'spectator as mindreader' effect."

This is the same method used in the previous name guess but frames as the spectator reading the performers mind and guessing the name he is thinking of. It works very well in this way also. Again, it has some very nice moments which make this into a very interesting, and clean, take on the spectator as mind reader plot. I still prefer the previous reverse name guess (written.) However, this is just as valid. Good thinking again.

-Objects, Star Signs, Memories (Any Word):

This brief section explains how to use any of the previous name guess routines to reveal any word, object, or star sign.

-Two Way Verbal Deductive Out: "This is Peter Turner's method for guessing between two star signs."

This is a very natural way to tell the spectator their star sign when down to two options. This obviously works great in conjunction with "Knowing Stars" from before. It is the best way to pump between two options without it feeling like a pump and without using the "repeat it" ploy.


Part 3: Bonuses

-Pseudo Hellstromism: "A 100% accurate muscle reading demonstration."

This is very creative thinking by Ross. It is a clever way to have a spectator cue you the object they are thinking of when no one else thinks they are cueing you. The spectator themselves may not even know they are doing it. It uses a reframe Ross and Fraser are known for. I actually really like this. It's simple, it's bold, but it is very effective. If you've ever wanted to perform a muscle reading routine with 100% accuracy, then you'll love this. It doesn't take any practice unlike traditional methods.

-Date of Birth: "The performer knows the spectators date of birth before he even meets them, and he can prove it."

This is way to make it look like you've written a spectator's birthday down on your phone before knowing them. This is the only piece in the book I dislike. It's a decent idea, but I think there are a lot of flaws in it which will make it be very lack luster. I wanted to like it, but after playing with it a little, I just found it to be a little less deceptive than I hoped.

-Deeper Readings: "This is a way to give readings with cards and end with a powerful moment if you so desire."

This is a decent idea. It is very simple, but could prove to be quite effective. It doesn't really fit in this book to me, but the idea is there and if you feel like giving a reading where you can tell them their future card before they look at it, then this is an effective way to do that. It also nicely forgets up a force with a presentation which makes the force make sense. It may be the best use of this particular force that I've seen.




So that's all the contents of Second Coming! As you'll see, I was VERY impressed with this release. By far Ross and Fraser's best work on mind reading to date. It's going to be very hard for them to top this one. The only pieces I didn't like were considered bonuses anyway so it is fine that I didn't like them. It is rare to find a book on propless mind reading that makes me want to perform every effect in it. I'm not a big fan of propless Mentalism, but this book has changed my mind. I want to use all of these. My favorite piece is definitely Kings Force; I will use it frequently. I will keep all of the other methods outlined in this book in my mind as well for some very impactful mind reading in impromptu scenarios.


All in all: I love this release. I highly suggest it. I think it is one of the best Mentalism books to come out in a long time.

Madison
Message: Posted by: Adrien L. (Jan 16, 2017 08:48AM)
Fraser performed Knowing Stars (the zodiac divination) on me, on Skype, yesterday. I already knew the method, but being on the otherside of this routine really helps to see why the reactions you get are so good. It's one of those effects that will never look as good on paper as it does in performance. The choreography is beautiful, motivated and just makes sense. I don't know if it's THE best propless zodiac divination ever... But it might be pretty close :D
Message: Posted by: Jeff Wassom (Jan 16, 2017 03:21PM)
Thanks for the in depth reviews guys!

Out of curiosity how well do you think this material stands up to repeat viewings?

I like the re-framing ideas in theory, but what I actually USE for star sign divination is the classic, battle hardened an*gram.
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Jan 16, 2017 04:12PM)
[quote]On Jan 16, 2017, Jeff Wassom wrote:
Thanks for the in depth reviews guys!

Out of curiosity how well do you think this material stands up to repeat viewings?

I like the re-framing ideas in theory, but what I actually USE for star sign divination is the classic, battle hardened an*gram. [/quote]


None of it really works for repeat viewings. But why should it? You shouldn't perform any of these multiple times.

I don't have anything against anagrams. But this technique gets you to the same place you end up with anagrams but without the process. Plus it doesn't feel like a guessing game which anagrams can sometimes feel like. I mainly like this technique because you get their star sign without them knowing that you are even trying to get their star sign. It is information you store away and then use later on after a couple of other effects to really hit them out of the blue. You can't really do that effectively with an anagram.
Message: Posted by: Jeff Wassom (Jan 16, 2017 05:16PM)
Thanks for the reply Madison.

I train at a martial arts school so probably have a larger sized, more revolving audience than the average hobbyist, but people can sometimes still see an effect 2-3 times.

The idea of getting and storing information definitely works in this context though, so the star sign divination might be something to consider...

Cheers and thanks again for your thoughts.
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Jan 16, 2017 05:29PM)
[quote]On Jan 16, 2017, Jeff Wassom wrote:
Thanks for the reply Madison.

I train at a martial arts school so probably have a larger sized, more revolving audience than the average hobbyist, but people can sometimes still see an effect 2-3 times.

The idea of getting and storing information definitely works in this context though, so the star sign divination might be something to consider...

Cheers and thanks again for your thoughts. [/quote]


No problem! Glad I could help.

Madison
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 17, 2017 09:49AM)
[quote]On Jan 16, 2017, Jeff Wassom wrote:
Thanks for the in depth reviews guys!

Out of curiosity how well do you think this material stands up to repeat viewings?

I like the re-framing ideas in theory, but what I actually USE for star sign divination is the classic, battle hardened an*gram. [/quote]

1) Repeat viewings by the same audience is not a wise idea for some of this stuff. This is due to them being very heavily script dependent and thus you are opening yourself up for the audience picking up on the secrets in the scripting.

2) The re-frame for the star sign divination in Second Coming is not heavily reliant on the re-frame. It's more reliant on contextual framing from the beginning of the effect + built in time misdirection.
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Jan 17, 2017 12:08PM)
That's a great point about the star sign divination which I hadn't really thought about until you pointed it out.

There really is no reframe in the star sign divination. Rather, a conceptual shift which takes the focus away from the true reason the performer does the things he/she does.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 17, 2017 04:14PM)
I gave the name guess a go today. Wow. It's so clean. Wow.
Message: Posted by: Raum (Jan 17, 2017 05:32PM)
I think most of the effects will only work in English, yes?
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 17, 2017 05:59PM)
[quote]On Jan 17, 2017, Raum wrote:
I think most of the effects will only work in English, yes? [/quote]

If the language has a alphabet type system it would work. There's quite a bit in here that isn't language dependent but you would have to translate the scripting to your language. There's a lot more in this book than simply effects. It's filled with a plethora of utility tools/techniques that you could apply to other things after you understand what they are and what they can apply to. Much of this options are actually explicitly explained in the book.
Message: Posted by: Adrien L. (Jan 17, 2017 06:05PM)
Besides the name guess and reverse name guess, nothing in this book is language dependent (and even those are not really language dependent: as kissdadookie said, as long as you have an alphabet to work with, you're good).
Message: Posted by: Ross Tayler (Jan 18, 2017 06:44AM)
Thanks to this of you who have given your feedback, it's been an absolute delight to read!

Apologies for not piping up sooner, have been very busy recently and attempting to avoid the internet to the best of my ability.

On the questions from Jeff and Raum I'd have to agree with Madison and Adrien, I think that for the majority of routines it would be unwise to repeat them for the same audience within a short time slot, as ambiguities which we wish to appear spontaneous and unique to that performance would be seen to be part of a set sequence and thus established as being methodologically relevant. Imagine, by way of a card-magic parallel, the use of a face-up key card or the "mistake shift"; its not so much that the methods risk being exposed as that the performance would lose the organic and natural nature that makes it a convincing piece of mind reading rather than a logic-puzzle of sorts. Hopefully that offers you some useful insight.

As for the language issue, there are perhaps three effects for which this would be a problem, as Adrien mentioned; and in this case it would only be a problem in languages for which the alphabet has no standard collating sequence (as I understand to be the case with Mandarin, although don't quote me on that), however you will have no problems if your language uses an alphabet such as the latin, greek, cyrillic, arabic etc.

Again many thanks to those who've given reviews and positive comments so far, Fraser and I are exceptionally proud of Second Coming, and really believe its the best content we're yet to produce together or as individuals. If anyone has any questions do feel free to ask and I'll happily respond, although as stated above I'm not hanging round here all that often, so apologies if that may take a few days.

Best wishes,

Ross.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 18, 2017 08:27AM)
[quote]On Jan 18, 2017, Ross Tayler wrote:

...as I understand to be the case with Mandarin, although don't quote me on that...[/quote]

Quoting you anyway :P Mandarin is a dialect of Chinese, it is not a language. Chinese is the language in which there are two character sets, traditional and simplified, they are character sets so there are no alphabet systems for which to form words with. There is a separate phonetic system but what you're essentially doing is brute memorization. ;) #dailydoseofculture
Message: Posted by: Raymond Singson (Jan 18, 2017 10:23AM)
Does Second Coming come as a PDF in addition to the physical book?

RS.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 18, 2017 10:39AM)
[quote]On Jan 18, 2017, Raymond Singson wrote:
Does Second Coming come as a PDF in addition to the physical book?

RS. [/quote]

Yup. Listed on his site as such.
Message: Posted by: Ross Tayler (Jan 21, 2017 06:55AM)
Haha, thank you kissdadookie.

Knew I was taking a risk! Thanks for correcting me though.

Also I'm inclined to suggest that "Daily Dose of Culture" should become a thread on the Café. Shape us all into nice rounded human beings!

Thanks also for answering people's questions, you're feeling to be far more useful than me!

Best wishes,

Ross.
Message: Posted by: Magidoc (Jan 21, 2017 08:25AM)
Eagerly waiting for the PDF to be sent...

Btw the website says the PDF will be sent within 12 hours of purchase, but I have yet to receive mine. Has anyone else had to wait for longer than the stated time?
Message: Posted by: Ross Tayler (Jan 21, 2017 09:15AM)
Apologies for the delay, Magidoc.

As I understand from Fraser your order came quite late in the evening. As he is a one man operation he's not always able to respond immediately, he needs his beauty sleep after all.

Your order is being processed as we speak, we hope you enjoy the material.

Best wishes,

Ross.
Message: Posted by: Magidoc (Jan 21, 2017 09:41AM)
Received. Thanks for the quick response, Ross. Just started reading and am liking it so far. I will give a review once I soak up all of the information. I am very excited!

Hope I didn't come across as impatient, I am only a hobbiest and am not used to spending so much for any kind of material. I have a feeling it'll be worth I though.

Michael
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 21, 2017 10:37AM)
[quote]On Jan 21, 2017, Ross Tayler wrote:
Haha, thank you kissdadookie.

Knew I was taking a risk! Thanks for correcting me though.

Also I'm inclined to suggest that "Daily Dose of Culture" should become a thread on the Café. Shape us all into nice rounded human beings!

Thanks also for answering people's questions, you're feeling to be far more useful than me!

Best wishes,

Ross. [/quote]

Bwah ha ha ha. You're welcome. :P
Message: Posted by: matthewmello (Jan 21, 2017 08:40PM)
I've had Second Coming for about a week, and I've finally been able to finish reading it!

Madison's review was incredibly comprehensive, and I agree with a lot of his thoughts. As with most of their work, Fraser and Ross have used a ton of applied psychology to create these demonstrations. I found myself gaining just as much useful information from the psychology behind the effects, as I did from the effects themselves.

"King's Force" was one of the stand-outs from the card section. I really enjoyed the simplicity of it, and the subtle manipulations of the participant.

As Madison also mentioned, I loved the logic of naturally eliminating the process behind the name guess.

"Pseudo Hellstromism" by Ross Tayler was also really interesting. I had a similar take on the concept in my "State of Mind" book, but Ross really pushed it to the limits, and has made it about as surefire as "muscle reading" can get.

If you've enjoyed the previous works of Ross and Fraser, then I'm certain that you'll find a lot of value in Second Coming, and you'll get much use out of the material in their newest offering. They have taken so many of their concepts and have expanded on them in very smart ways, as well as providing us with new ideas and psychological techniques to weave into our prop-less demonstrations.

I can't wait to see what you guys come up with next!
Message: Posted by: SteveTheAmazing (Jan 23, 2017 05:38PM)
Hi everyone, long time lurker, first time caller.

I'm not going to get into a full review in this post as you've already seen plenty of them (and I'll be recording an in-depth review later), but I wanted to go over my Pros and Cons in case another opinion was needed for anyone. Plus I wanted to give this post another boost.

Pros:
1. The methods presented are built off of workable methodologies from other areas of mentalism and magic. They're mixed together in a way that method becomes as short as possible to accomplish the effect as well as mixed with a bit of boldness. However, this is unlike previous prop-less releases. It really is difficult to prove any potential method from a spectator's point of view. That being said, if you perform this like it's real (and perhaps perform it more often to people that believe it's real) then it will be viewed as legitimate.

2. This next Pro is one I've been waiting for a while to see: Fraser and Ross talk about the necessity of the Silent Script. They bring it up a few times throughout the book and seem to really make sure that no stone was left unturned when it comes to how, when, and why to perform these effects. This is not a book that is trying to be better than, nor eliminate, physical methods. It's about legitimizing your performances and giving you performance options to stand above any other performer that your audience will see again.

3. The two of them make a great team in this book. It felt to me that they aimed to plug every hole in the performances and make sure that you had the necessary outs to make this as close to 100% as possible. They really seemed to look at these effects from every angle. This book does not feel rushed, nor made for money (despite it's high price tag.)

4. They begin by teaching the methods using playing cards so that you can get more comfortable with the ideas and see their effectiveness.

Cons:

1. This is not material for everyone and anyone. You will not have 100% accuracy. You will not likely be able to perform this if you aren't sufficient with silent scripting and believing that what you are doing has no method. This is material made for working pros, not to eliminate their current methods, but to add to them. These methods are spice to add to your routines to give your audience the feeling of reading minds and to lessen the use of props (thus increasing their effectiveness in your other effects.)

2. Occasionally they get a bit wordy and almost sound like they're trying to over-prove their own methods in the descriptions. It's not really a problem, but it was something I noticed and felt I should bring up as a counterpoint. I think it was to show that they have thought these methods out due to some recent internet backlash of previous material. Fraser and Ross really seem to flesh out everything they could about prop-less performances in this book, from creating a cooperative spectator, when to use the material, what to think as you perform, and what to happen if something fails. Combine that with some fresh takes on old workable methods and you have a winner in this book.

Value for money:

This is obviously a very expensive book. This book is not going to make you a superstar just from purchasing it. If you're sufficient in mentalism and confident in your character it could easily take you up a level, but it's not going to take you from 0-60. However, the book is fairly self contained and doesn't really need other publications to make the effects work. I'd always recommend looking into Kenton Knepper material or, in this case, some of Peter Turner's recent releases to be able to add to these effects. Pete's 2nd Penguin lecture would be a good additional purchase, as well as a few of his monthly pdf series.

This book reads like a summer blockbuster. You get excited as you read the methods. My brain has been racing and making connections between the ideas presented and my own work. You read it and can feel the excitement of the authors and perhaps even the mentalism community. I know I saw a lot of Facebook posts on my timeline that were excited for the material inside.

As well as the routines that are listed in the contents, they give a lot of additional routines, plots, and methods during their discussions in between effects. I missed some of these on my second read through of the book and that caused me to dismiss the Zodiac guess after originally loving it. On my third read of the book (in 10 days!) I saw Ross Tayler's billet peek concept that was attached to the Zodiac guess and when you combine that it becomes the cleanest divination I've seen. The method is non-existent as it's just a conversation between two people. The spectator doesn't write their sign down ever. Save your anagram for later in the routine if you want and reveal another person's star sign! It's truly a stand-out in the book.

I will have a video review up with more detail on each individual effect, but probably less detail on the pros and cons that I've already discussed. Thank you for reading and thank you for having me at the Café!
Message: Posted by: watkins13 (Jan 23, 2017 11:05PM)
Now that I have finished reading, I can honestly say that this is probably one of the most important books on Mentalism you will ever read. There is a lot of debate now days having to do with going 'no prop' in our field of magic. I think this work by Ross and Fraser is pretty revolutionary when it comes to exploring the limits of propless Mind Reading. This stuff works, and is relatively easy to do. I have a feeling that in 100 years this will be one of the books that future Mentalists give the same weight as the classics we love so much now. The reason I say this is that these two are really thinking outside the box, pushing boundries, and creating entirely new, and never before seen methods. And the best aspect of Ross and Fraser's work is the fact they are never satisfied with their discoveries and continue to refine things- leading to each successive step toward true miracles.

We have got to watch these concepts grow from a very simple idea (Ouija) to the more subtle and deceptive pieces to be found in Second Coming. I would perhaps even recommend this book to a person that hated False Messiah, simply because of how much more refined and matured these new ideas are in comparison. Even if you aren't a fan of propless methods at all- this book will get you to think. Ross and Fraser's methods have inspired me greatly and I highly recommend anything they put out.

-Watkins
Message: Posted by: watkins13 (Jan 24, 2017 08:13AM)
If you guys want to see what kind of reactions this stuff gets, heres a quick video of me performing one of Ross and Frasers name guesses:

https://youtu.be/lWYd6WkEODM
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Jan 24, 2017 09:35AM)
[quote]On Jan 23, 2017, watkins13 wrote:
Now that I have finished reading, I can honestly say that this is probably one of the most important books on Mentalism you will ever read. There is a lot of debate now days having to do with going 'no prop' in our field of magic. I think this work by Ross and Fraser is pretty revolutionary when it comes to exploring the limits of propless Mind Reading. This stuff works, and is relatively easy to do. I have a feeling that in 100 years this will be one of the books that future Mentalists give the same weight as the classics we love so much now. The reason I say this is that these two are really thinking outside the box, pushing boundries, and creating entirely new, and never before seen methods. And the best aspect of Ross and Fraser's work is the fact they are never satisfied with their discoveries and continue to refine things- leading to each successive step toward true miracles.

We have got to watch these concepts grow from a very simple idea (Ouija) to the more subtle and deceptive pieces to be found in Second Coming. I would perhaps even recommend this book to a person that hated False Messiah, simply because of how much more refined and matured these new ideas are in comparison. Even if you aren't a fan of propless methods at all- this book will get you to think. Ross and Fraser's methods have inspired me greatly and I highly recommend anything they put out.

-Watkins [/quote]

Those that got on the great Café deal Fraser put up a long while ago for False Messiah has the great pleasure of watching the work evolve :) I suggest to anyone that enjoyed any of Fraser's work to try and get a hold of everything he's put out and take some time out to study them chronologically (based on release). Seeing how the ideas form, mature, and refine throughout is really a treat.
Message: Posted by: Adrien L. (Jan 24, 2017 09:50AM)
[quote]On Jan 24, 2017, watkins13 wrote:
If you guys want to see what kind of reactions this stuff gets, heres a quick video of me performing one of Ross and Frasers name guesses:

https://youtu.be/lWYd6WkEODM [/quote]

Very nice performance :)
Message: Posted by: watkins13 (Jan 27, 2017 02:27PM)
Https://youtu.be/3weywieLp4E

A Review from Steve the Amazing
Message: Posted by: Mark Storms (Feb 6, 2017 11:38PM)
Been kinda quiet. Any others have this that care to share their experience?
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Feb 7, 2017 03:47AM)
[quote]On Feb 6, 2017, Mark Storms wrote:
Been kinda quiet. Any others have this that care to share their experience? [/quote]

200 pounds currently gets you the hardcover and PDFs for both False Messiah and Second Coming? :P
Message: Posted by: Al Straker (Feb 10, 2017 05:42PM)
Second Coming Review

If you have wondered what might the next major breakthrough in mentalism look like and how to realistically strive for less prop reliance then you are the kind of person who will absolutely delight in reading this stunning new release from Fraser & Ross. I have quietly been stalking Fraser's work for years now as the first time I saw him perform his Kentonesque 'True Mysteries' effects I saw a guy who truly was looking to shift our beloved art form forward with his highly original and 'gutsy' manoeuvring used in the effects.

'Second Coming' has been getting some rather strong reviews and praise since being released and rightly so. Although Fraser and Ross have copped some flack at times, this would only be expected from two such progressive thinkers in our field. You could not put a value on what they share here. This may very well one day become one of the most sought after books on the planet. This work is astounding, even a performer who believes propless mentalism is not practical would have to admit the material in this tome absolutely disproves that thought once and for all.

As I read Kenton's introduction he spoke of the importance of 'boldness' and immediately I began to have twinges of doubt at the practicality of these effects, sometimes I have seen 'bold' translate in to 'useless' in effects I have studied in the past. However that did not turn out to be the case at all here. In fact I would be so bold as to say some of the effects are so ingenious they will not even feel 'bold' in performance and are in fact very attainable for anyone.

The effects have all been beautifully broken down by the fantastic Madison so I don't intend to rehash this. Beyond the effects themselves the principles taught here are phenomenal. With the purist creativity and efficiency of a Finley, the ingenuity of a Turner, the brass of a Jermay, the masterful scripting of Parker and Tayler is razor sharp in it's efficiency to cut straight to the good bits without too much journey or process seemingly involved. They have painstakingly and masterfully examined the best words to get from A to B and also sometimes hit on ways that kind of automatically extract bonus information for use later on.

It's difficult to get across how beautifully these guys have achieved their goals here without giving too much away. I currently perform a couple of propless effects of my own and am very fussy about propless as for me, it has fly with everyone and DR is too close to exposure at times. I will definitely be adding a couple of these beauties to my permanent sets, these effects are not DR reliant and will fly with everyone in the room including your participant.

Both congratulations and thank you to Fraser and Ross for this material, you have set the bar very, very high indeed.
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Feb 19, 2017 12:51PM)
I decided to review this mammoth of a project on my new review channel "DormRoomReview"

You can check it out here!

https://youtu.be/gTYXTjNxaJk

I hope you enjoy,
Madison
Message: Posted by: magicthree (Feb 19, 2017 03:43PM)
Maddy, didn't know you had a channel. Great Job as usual and don't get married. The wife test is much harder than the girlfriend test
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Feb 19, 2017 04:07PM)
[quote]On Feb 19, 2017, magicthree wrote:
Maddy, didn't know you had a channel. Great Job as usual and don't get married. The wife test is much harder than the girlfriend test [/quote]

It's brand new! Just started it yesterday :)

And good advice! Although, I think if I tell that to my girlfriend I will no longer be able to do the girlfriend test ;)

Madison
Message: Posted by: Ross Tayler (Feb 20, 2017 07:18AM)
Thanks a lot for that, Madison!

Really appreciate it, and am so glad that you enjoyed the material so much! We're really proud of it, and absolutely agree that the breakthroughs made in the name guess are our best solutions so far.

On a more general note, loving the dorm room reviews!

Best wishes buddy,

Ross.
Message: Posted by: Morgan Strebler (Feb 26, 2017 12:19PM)
I seen Fraser, doing a lot of this material at Blackpool! It was slaying people! I purchased it when I got home this book is pure gold!! I think it's definitely going to propel mentalism forward for years to come.

Morgan
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Apr 23, 2018 01:11PM)
I saw this on eBay for £35 so thought I'd take the plunge. Have bought it and I'll share my thoughts when j receive it.

Sleepy
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Apr 24, 2018 12:43PM)
[quote]On Apr 23, 2018, SleepyMagic wrote:
I saw this on eBay for £35 so thought I'd take the plunge. Have bought it and I'll share my thoughts when j receive it.

Sleepy [/quote]

The name guess in it is phenomenal. The card force is also very very very very good and incredibly useful.
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Apr 24, 2018 01:13PM)
[quote]On Apr 24, 2018, kissdadookie wrote:
[quote]On Apr 23, 2018, SleepyMagic wrote:
I saw this on eBay for £35 so thought I'd take the plunge. Have bought it and I'll share my thoughts when j receive it.

Sleepy [/quote]

The name guess in it is phenomenal. The card force is also very very very very good and incredibly useful. [/quote]

How's the reverse name guess?

Sleepy
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Apr 24, 2018 01:20PM)
[quote]On Apr 24, 2018, SleepyMagic wrote:
[quote]On Apr 24, 2018, kissdadookie wrote:
[quote]On Apr 23, 2018, SleepyMagic wrote:
I saw this on eBay for £35 so thought I'd take the plunge. Have bought it and I'll share my thoughts when j receive it.

Sleepy [/quote]

The name guess in it is phenomenal. The card force is also very very very very good and incredibly useful. [/quote]

How's the reverse name guess?

Sleepy [/quote]

IMHO, the reverse name guess is always better than the performer guessing the name. Reason being the process (there is a process involved but Second Coming is the most streamlined thus far from Fraser and Ross) IMO is better justified due to the framing of it being the spectator doing the thought reading/sensing. It's essentially the same method with a different framing in the presentation. The process is also built into the script so to the audience it comes off as theatrics rather than mental gymnastics.
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Apr 24, 2018 01:36PM)
[quote]On Apr 24, 2018, kissdadookie wrote:
[quote]On Apr 24, 2018, SleepyMagic wrote:
[quote]On Apr 24, 2018, kissdadookie wrote:
[quote]On Apr 23, 2018, SleepyMagic wrote:
I saw this on eBay for £35 so thought I'd take the plunge. Have bought it and I'll share my thoughts when j receive it.

Sleepy [/quote]

The name guess in it is phenomenal. The card force is also very very very very good and incredibly useful. [/quote]

How's the reverse name guess?

Sleepy [/quote]

IMHO, the reverse name guess is always better than the performer guessing the name. Reason being the process (there is a process involved but Second Coming is the most streamlined thus far from Fraser and Ross) IMO is better justified due to the framing of it being the spectator doing the thought reading/sensing. It's essentially the same method with a different framing in the presentation. The process is also built into the script so to the audience it comes off as theatrics rather than mental gymnastics. [/quote]

Agreed...Peter Turner's version of reverse name guess on DID2 is amazing! I've used it so much and it's so clean...but I'd love to know more methods for reverse name guess so I can pull different ones out in different situations.

The main reasons I bought this book was because 1) it was going for only £35 and 2) for the card force and the reverse name guess.

Even if I like one of those routines then this purchase will be definitely worth it!

Sleepy
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Apr 24, 2018 01:43PM)
[quote]On Apr 24, 2018, SleepyMagic wrote:
[quote]On Apr 24, 2018, kissdadookie wrote:
[quote]On Apr 24, 2018, SleepyMagic wrote:
[quote]On Apr 24, 2018, kissdadookie wrote:
[quote]On Apr 23, 2018, SleepyMagic wrote:
I saw this on eBay for £35 so thought I'd take the plunge. Have bought it and I'll share my thoughts when j receive it.

Sleepy [/quote]

The name guess in it is phenomenal. The card force is also very very very very good and incredibly useful. [/quote]

How's the reverse name guess?

Sleepy [/quote]

IMHO, the reverse name guess is always better than the performer guessing the name. Reason being the process (there is a process involved but Second Coming is the most streamlined thus far from Fraser and Ross) IMO is better justified due to the framing of it being the spectator doing the thought reading/sensing. It's essentially the same method with a different framing in the presentation. The process is also built into the script so to the audience it comes off as theatrics rather than mental gymnastics. [/quote]

Agreed...Peter Turner's version of reverse name guess on DID2 is amazing! I've used it so much and it's so clean...but I'd love to know more methods for reverse name guess so I can pull different ones out in different situations.

The main reasons I bought this book was because 1) it was going for only £35 and 2) for the card force and the reverse name guess.

Even if I like one of those routines then this purchase will be definitely worth it!

Sleepy [/quote]

What a steal for the book! That force is gold. Once you read that section and learned it, there's so much you can do with it. Peter Turner has a ACAAN in his Numbers PDF from his PDF series. It's also on his last Penguin lecture. I've never liked the method for getting the card so I've started trying to think of how to use the force from Second Coming to get the card and then use Peter's method for the number from his Numbers PDF. You can also use the force for card in impossible location, etc. Super fair, very quick, the method provides the presentation and vice versa.
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Apr 24, 2018 02:01PM)
Yes I was gonna use the force for card to impossible location! Can't wait for the book to arrive. Loved ECROF by Ross Tayler and I use in of the routines provided in their a lot!

Sleepy
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Apr 26, 2018 04:03PM)
Just arrived yesterday and have read the cards part only but can definitely say that the king's force is definitely worth the price I paid for this book!

That alone is amazing.

Sleepy
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Apr 26, 2018 05:25PM)
[quote]On Apr 26, 2018, SleepyMagic wrote:
Just arrived yesterday and have read the cards part only but can definitely say that the king's force is definitely worth the price I paid for this book!

That alone is amazing.

Sleepy [/quote]

Right?!? Shhhhhhhhhhhh. Let’s just keep it a secret.
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Apr 29, 2018 06:17PM)
I've read the whole book now and I'll be honest, the majority of ideas are not for me because they rely a bit too much on the re**ame than I want them too.

However, I am happy I got this just for the king's force! I've made up a version of 52-1 deck with a normal deck and just one gimmicked card!

Sleepy
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Apr 29, 2018 06:35PM)
This is one book I keep returning to. I still believe this is Fraser and Ross’s best work to date. Every time I read it, I’m inspired by it. I think these are all the most workable ideas out of all their work. Yes, many rely on a re-fra... BUT I think it is this book contains the best uses of that principle.

Madison
Message: Posted by: Dr Ross (Apr 29, 2018 09:31PM)
Hi Madison - does this mean you prefer it over The Book of Angels (TBOA)? I ask because I have TBOA and really like that - not only for the effects within but also for the tools it provides for you to create your own material.

I missed out on the limited 'Second Coming' unfortunately, but I was able to learn some of the material via 'Rapture'. And they do work great! :)

- Ross
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Apr 29, 2018 09:48PM)
[quote]On Apr 29, 2018, Dr Ross wrote:
Hi Madison - does this mean you prefer it over The Book of Angels (TBOA)? I ask because I have TBOA and really like that - not only for the effects within but also for the tools it provides for you to create your own material.

I missed out on the limited 'Second Coming' unfortunately, but I was able to learn some of the material via 'Rapture'. And they do work great! :)

- Ross [/quote]


I do not own book of angels so I can’t say! Fair point :)

Madison
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Apr 30, 2018 11:16AM)
[quote]On Apr 29, 2018, SleepyMagic wrote:
I've read the whole book now and I'll be honest, the majority of ideas are not for me because they rely a bit too much on the re**ame than I want them too.

However, I am happy I got this just for the king's force! I've made up a version of 52-1 deck with a normal deck and just one gimmicked card!

Sleepy [/quote]

I don't even consider the re**ame something that is being relied on anymore tbh. It's more of something that you would have built into your script in order to tie up loose ends anyway but they did the work of writing the script for you already. I personally don't feel turned off by it because in all honesty, I think of it less as some sort of technique being overtly relied on and more as just good script construction. If you analyze your scripts from any branch of magic and mentalism, you're inherently doing this very thing constantly in your scripting and choreography. Sometimes it's meant as misdirection, other times it's to elicit a stronger reaction, and other times it's to create a new perception (which in all honesty, isn't that the purpose of you performing for your audience? to suspend their disbelief?).
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Apr 30, 2018 01:28PM)
After reading these comments...I decided to perform one of the effects that seemed a bit "meh" to me...this was one of the card prediction effects.

I didn't expect the reaction that I got! Everyone was stunned! I was so surprised that this went over this well!

And kissdadookie I agree with the points you've made!

Sleepy