(Close Window)
Topic: Table Tipping
Message: Posted by: RooMan (Mar 27, 2004 12:28AM)
What are your opinions of the best table tipping methods?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 27, 2004 12:36AM)
The best ones are very good.
:lol:
Message: Posted by: RooMan (Mar 27, 2004 12:46AM)
Awww geeez...always "on".

I had hoped the Berglas book would have gone into more detail about his table tipping method but no...

The most interesting one I've found thus far would be the one described in "Psychic Magic" by Ormond McGill but I've never had a chance to try it.

The various belt gizmos and such don't intrique me as much as "the real deal".

Ok...your turn Bill.
Message: Posted by: Babymagician (Mar 27, 2004 12:56AM)
The method for the Berglas table tipping is in the book.
You just have to look carfully...
Message: Posted by: RooMan (Mar 27, 2004 10:20AM)
Babymagician...howzabout a hint as to where that might be?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 27, 2004 11:02AM)
The table tipping method in the Berglas book is hinted at fairly strongly, but is not actually revealed. Actually, unless you are using an extremely heavy table, such as the one that Berglas used, you can do this without any gaffs at all. Kreskin did it in his show with regular folding card tables.

I'll PM you some ideas later this afternoon.
Message: Posted by: Patrick Redford (Mar 27, 2004 11:51AM)
IN Banachek's book, Psychological thought reading - he has a section on table tilting ("The real deal") that you may be interested in.

Kindest Regards,

George Tait
Message: Posted by: RooMan (Mar 29, 2004 09:04AM)
Thanks, guys...I'll check 'em all out. Look forward to hearing from you, Bill. You know, I seem to recall when Kreskin was on TV ages ago a table tilting done with card tables that completely blew me away. The tables went out of control, galloping across the stage.

Of course, this may have been in the late sixties or early seventies and I can't even guarantee the memory to be real. Ahhh, the good ol' days...
Message: Posted by: Anabelle (Mar 29, 2004 10:35AM)
I think Banachek's psychophysiological thought reading is an awesome book with some great stuff in it. The table tilting in there gives it some history and simple description. There's really not much to it.

Anabelle
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Mar 31, 2004 11:08AM)
For those that can travel to my UK lectures in May, I am more than happy to show you there what I do for table tilting.
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
Message: Posted by: constantine (Apr 3, 2004 12:30PM)
Ormand McGill's Psychic Magic(Abbotts) and I think the Bill Larson book have work on this.
Message: Posted by: Mark Roberts (Apr 16, 2004 09:47AM)
Look forward to seeing that Paul.

Hopefully I'll be at the Leicester Lecture on 10th May.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 16, 2004 03:56PM)
I will admit that I was one of the few who was truly disappointed in the Berglas book. The ads for it implied that the methods for the table tilting would be in there, and they were only hinted at.

I purchased the book, read it, realized what it was, and sold it within a month or so.

Nothing against David Berglas. He has earned his position in the Magic Circle of London and in the world of magic. He has also been very supportive of my work in combatting exposure. I just felt that the information to page ratio was a bit low.
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Apr 20, 2004 11:41AM)
The Mental mysteries of Wm. W. Larsen, as well as Eddie Joseph's "Come good spirits" both contain good table tilting works and is what I always used as my basis.
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
Message: Posted by: mortep00 (Jan 28, 2005 11:36AM)
David Berglas is not allowed to reveal how the table tilting is done.
He would be breaking a contract with David Copperfield if he were to do so.
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Jan 28, 2005 12:57PM)
Jay Inglee demonstrates a nice bit of table tipping (with Jan Orleans as the "innocent" spectator :) )as part of an effect in Eugene Goes Bizarre and it is explained in Strange Ceremonies. No gimmicks!
Message: Posted by: Sam Haine (Jan 28, 2005 10:53PM)
Greetings,

Table tipping is a lot of fun but it took me about six tries to get it to work. The hardest part for me was finding an appropriate table. I figured a lighter table would work best and quickly found that was not the main issue. While I wouldn't use a 1/2 ton dining room table, I found I could use up to an 90 lb table. Rather, I found that a three legged table with a broad top, or one with a single column that split into three legs, worked best. The fewer tipping points seemed to help, and the width of the top increased each contributors leverage.

You face an interesting formula of number of people (more people is not always more force but usually helps), table top width (increased leverage of available force), and height of table (I found having folks lean down on the table pretty much killed the motion, while too high and they weren't able to apply enough force).

Lastly, I would like to try using a pendulum. I'd love to suspend one from the ceiling to just above the table. I'd swing it with IT and suggest it is pointing to the moving energy around the table. The idea would be to suggest and hopefully induce corresponding movement in the table. An idea I don't have time to try. If you do, please let me know how it goes!

Sincerely,
Sam Haine

p.s. For the truly lazy and mildly wealthy, Hank Lee sells the Shaman's table.
Message: Posted by: Osiris (Jan 29, 2005 09:33AM)
Like many, I do prefer the "cold" methods towards table tipping. As best I can recall, most all of them seem to agree on the same basic dynamics. At the same time, I've had loads of fun with some of the mechanical methods used long ago. HOWEVER... I have a new method that, unfortunately cannot be made available to just anyone. We're still working out the bugs but the general effect is awesome and, in my case at least (that's a hint) can be done most anywhere, at any time, with just about any table that's available.

The table "bounces"and can shift the bounce from one end to the other. It can likewise raise into the air about half a foot or so.

Like I said, we're still working the bugs out of it, but it will be a prime feature in my new show this coming fall here in Western Mass. Hope this little blurb intices some of you into visiting...

I'll post up-dates closer to our opening along with web site links... I just couldn't pass up the opportunity for this teaser...
Message: Posted by: Bill Fienning (Jan 30, 2005 09:43PM)
I have a heavy oak three-legged table that is believed to be the one used by my wife's grandparents for table tilting (for real). A hundred years ago, people would sit around a table for hours trying to get it to move, much like a Ouija board.

These tables are heavy, but very unstable when pressed, even lightly, in a certain way.
Message: Posted by: Osiris (Feb 2, 2005 09:57AM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-30 22:43, Bill Fienning wrote:
I have a heavy oak three-legged table that is believed to be the one used by my wife's grandparents for table tilting (for real). A hundred years ago, people would sit around a table for hours trying to get it to move, much like a Ouija board.

These tables are heavy, but very unstable when pressed, even lightly, in a certain way.
[/quote]

Dang Bill... You should have a "Knocker" installed into the pedestal and have some serious fun with that piece.

I love finding "practical" antiques. To have one with a legit family history however... that's MAGIC!
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 4, 2005 12:40AM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-28 12:36, mortep00 wrote:
David Berglas is not allowed to reveal how the table tilting is done.
He would be breaking a contract with David Copperfield if he were to do so.

[/quote]

In that case, which I will say right now, I do not believe, the advertising for the book was false. He did not have to give total specifics of the method. There were other items in the book that I also have great difficulty believing.

Since you seem to have inside information, what is the duration of the contract?
Message: Posted by: teejay (Feb 24, 2005 07:24PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-20 12:41, Thoughtreader wrote:
The Mental mysteries of Wm. W. Larsen, as well as Eddie Joseph's "Come good spirits" both contain good table tilting works and is what I always used as my basis.
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
[/quote]

Anybody know where these are available?
Cheers
TJ
Message: Posted by: Osiris (Feb 25, 2005 12:21PM)
[quote]
On 2005-02-24 20:24, teejay wrote:
[quote]
On 2004-04-20 12:41, Thoughtreader wrote:
The Mental mysteries of Wm. W. Larsen, as well as Eddie Joseph's "Come good spirits" both contain good table tilting works and is what I always used as my basis.
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
[/quote]

Anybody know where these are available?
Cheers
TJ
[/quote]

Write to the Magic Castle for the Larsen Book (be prepared for sticker shock... last I heard it was at or over $200.00 for a copy... but well worth it!)

ABBOTTS may be your best bet for the Joseph material and of course Hades Publications for the Nelson notes on this same bit.

For around $40.00 (if I recall correctly) Stevens Magic (gesh, they need to start paying me a commission for all the plugs I give them) has a very cool "device" that permits you to actually levitate a table... it's very cool and loads of fun if you have any level of imagination.
Message: Posted by: teejay (Feb 25, 2005 07:30PM)
Hi Osiris
Thanks for the info
Cheers
TJ
Message: Posted by: Piers (May 10, 2005 02:12AM)
Hello,
Is there a URL for the 'Stevens Magic' 'device;, please ?
Message: Posted by: shinobi (May 10, 2005 01:16PM)
James randi's book "flim flam" exposes table tipping methods. the book shows how he debunks paranormal claims by exposing the methods to be 'performance' magic. the one case shows how the table tippers were unable to do their thing when he made them place their hands within a certain area. just do the opposite...
Message: Posted by: Chris Meece (Apr 18, 2011 04:45PM)
I am glad I finally found this thread. I had seen Copperfield do this years ago and more recently, Derren Brown. I had no idea what to call this phenomena but knew it was related to Ouija boards. I had begun to believe the concept was simply a hoax that required stooges until I happened upon this thread. (Well, not that still isn't a hoax...) Thank you very much for the resources. I would like to find an antique table to keep in my office, just for this very purpose. I am going to enjoy the hunt for this table and I hope it takes me to more than one curious shop.
Message: Posted by: MentalistCreationLab (Apr 19, 2011 06:34AM)
“What are your opinions of the best table tipping methods?”

First that would depend on if you’re looking for a spiritualist table turning methodology or tipping as it is sometimes referred too. The fact is that many of the published methods since the time of Houdini are nothing more than a magician’s opinion. As to how the spiritualist actually performed their unique version for the method these magicians offered to the society as a whole and are largely incorrect not only in the premise of what you are trying to do but in the methodology employed.

The other thing that one should note is that table turning started about late 1848-1849 with the uprising of spiritualism as a precursor to the Ouija Board.

Why did I say the above date? The methodology of the context you want to look for can be found published between that date and the creation of automatic writing and the development of the first planchette used for writing. After this time period everything moved forward to the Ouija Board.

A few bits of interest turn up again during the 1850’s till the coining of the term Spiritism by Allen Kardec in 1874. Now after 1874 the whole concept takes a drastic turn for the worst in my view as the whole context of the idea is dramatized and not for the better I might add and by time of the rise of the anti spiritualist propagandist all good work is lost on the subject. One of the reasons is the ASP and the other is the book burning fads of the late 18th and early 20th centuries where much of this literature went up in flames.

Okay, now you have the time frame you should look for information about the context of the idea the rest is up to you but pay special attention to the works of Andrew Jackson Davis (1826 – 1910) 1847 Principles of Nature written in 1846. Also note the works of Hudson Tuttle.

A very interesting sub note is that the Fox Sisters may have read Andrew Jackson Davis work of 1847 and this may have lead to their little ruse that gave way to what was to follow them in 1848.

This time frame will give you the proper context for table turning or tipping if you look you will find a whole new way to view this most interesting phenomena.

In my book Phasmatis Opus (Ghost Work) you will find my Table tipping method although it’s properly far to dark for some of you.

All in all I would look at avoiding using any obvious gimmicks that could be identified when performing this style of routine. The other fact is the tables never floated off the ground this was a later gag set in motion by members of the ASP to confuse and confound the public. Also did you know that some of the mediums who were exposed were not mediums at all but members of the ASP movement portraying mediums?

Never believe all hype after 1874 or you may become lost in the swindle of the anti spiritualist propaganda movement. Today this movement still exists under many names but its influence from the past can be seen and many works only rehash ideas set forth by the ASP many of which are bold face deception and lies.

Best to know both side of the coin are really there before you decide to call head or tails.

Hope this helps at least one of you find the answer to this age old question.

Cheers
Bill Montana
Message: Posted by: Chris Meece (Apr 19, 2011 07:28AM)
Thank you very much for such a detailed response Mr. Montana. You are a true asset. I can not wait to get my butt in some antique shops now. I also look forward to the looks I'll receive when seeing how tippable the table is without invoking the anger of the shop owner.
Message: Posted by: Todd Robbins (Apr 19, 2011 07:37AM)
Here's a clip (and there are many more on youtube)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=027pj4EsaGU&feature=related
Message: Posted by: Todd Robbins (Apr 19, 2011 07:43AM)
Here's a clip (and there are many more on youtube)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=027pj4EsaGU&feature=related
Message: Posted by: MentalistCreationLab (Apr 19, 2011 09:25AM)
Yeah, you guys do know you can use a bigger table.:) The one in the video Todd posted is way to small and looks prop-ish so do many of the other videos on YouTube IMO. Something that should be avoided when performing this kind of stuff is anything that does not seem to be real. Folding TV dinner tables are never a good idea when doing this kind of work. Think about it and you will come to the same conclusion. I should also point out that the table does not need to cost a small fortune either. Mainly do to the fact it could break during performance. As this will happen on occasion and when it does hopefully you have the camera running.
Message: Posted by: Todd Robbins (Apr 19, 2011 10:05AM)
At Lily Dale they do a Victorian seance evening every season. Everyone dresses up and there are dozens of tables tipping. In looking at their calendar of events for 2011 in order to see if they were doing another of these evenings, I stumbled across a red light seance class and an evening of billett readings! They are getting bold up there.
Message: Posted by: seadog93 (Apr 19, 2011 10:11AM)
I want to go to Lily dale!

Also, I just saw this clip last night, it's SO good. Obviously theatrical, but I think it's powerful. I love Harry Anderson, but I didn't know he did this kind of stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Px7MPg9Wc&feature=channel_video_title
Message: Posted by: Chris Meece (Apr 19, 2011 10:43AM)
Thanks for the videos Todd. I was hoping for more of the 'moving' types of tables that I have seen Copperfield use or Derren Brown. Is this possible? I wasn't even aware of the existence of the 'tipping' versions. If I could get both phenomena to manifest itself in the same table, without stooges that would be awesome. If I experience the third phenomena of floating, without stooges, I will be looking for the quickest exit. :)
Message: Posted by: Todd Robbins (Apr 19, 2011 03:29PM)
What you saw in those videos is about all you can hope for with only audience members at the table. You can get some sliding of the table across the floor, but when it comes to getting the table to float, that requires either helpful people or helpful mechanics. We do a floating table in Play Dead with people from the audience at the table. No stooges, just some evil smoke and mirrors.
Message: Posted by: Todd Robbins (Apr 19, 2011 03:39PM)
Lily Dale can be a bit of fun, but it is not a flashy as you might imagine. There is an overall sadness to the place that comes from the people filled with loss who go there hoping that they can fill the void in their lives.

Harry did that floating table for years in his act. It was a nice change up from the rest of his material.

[quote]
On 2011-04-19 11:11, seadog93 wrote:
I want to go to Lily dale!

Also, I just saw this clip last night, it's SO good. Obviously theatrical, but I think it's powerful. I love Harry Anderson, but I didn't know he did this kind of stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Px7MPg9Wc&feature=channel_video_title
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Chris Meece (Apr 19, 2011 08:32PM)
[quote]
On 2011-04-19 16:29, Todd Robbins wrote:
What you saw in those videos is about all you can hope for with only audience members at the table. You can get some sliding of the table across the floor, but when it comes to getting the table to float, that requires either helpful people or helpful mechanics.
[/quote]
The floating part was a joke. I simply want sliding.
Message: Posted by: critter (Apr 19, 2011 08:46PM)
I believe the standard is currently 20% of the total bill.
Message: Posted by: Chris Meece (Apr 25, 2011 09:22AM)
I guess the world will never know ...
Message: Posted by: DR STEVE HOSKINS (May 2, 2011 09:32AM)
I have really freaked out people with my Floating Table, yes it requires a little help, its a heavy repro victorian mahogany circular
3 legged table, I get six people to put there outstretched hand flat onto the table top,alongside my own hand, in a similar same manner as the David Berglas effect, except I join in with them, as a convincer.
I copied Berglas's idea of getting them all to drum there fingertips onto the table top.When that table rises up four feet in the air, and then I remove my hand from it, and it stays suspended mid air, WOW, an awesome effect that knocks people out, and they never ever work it out.
I love this one.

Steve
Message: Posted by: markthorold (May 2, 2011 01:41PM)
The ultimate is being able to make it waltz across the floor in the hands of the assisting spectators without any help ;)
Mark
Message: Posted by: Chris Meece (May 2, 2011 02:56PM)
[quote]
On 2011-05-02 14:41, markthorold wrote:
The ultimate is being able to make it waltz across the floor in the hands of the assisting spectators without any help ;)
Mark
[/quote]

And that is what I have been looking for resources about. No luck yet.
Message: Posted by: markthorold (May 2, 2011 03:39PM)
PM sent will sort this out or you hopefully .
Regards Mark
Message: Posted by: DR STEVE HOSKINS (May 3, 2011 02:35AM)
Hey Marko, if you can improve my version pm me plz.

Steve
Message: Posted by: markthorold (May 3, 2011 07:17AM)
Cant improve on floating Steve...Im not God ;)
Mark
Message: Posted by: DR STEVE HOSKINS (May 3, 2011 01:40PM)
And I thought you were Marko. - ahh well I guess you cant't teach me anything more then!

Steve
Message: Posted by: markthorold (May 4, 2011 07:35AM)
Guess you must be right Steve .What more could you need than a float ?
Message: Posted by: Frank Douglas (May 4, 2011 08:44AM)
I seem to remember a Kreskin episode that had table turning/sliding/walking on it. He had 6 or 8 folding card tables set up on stage and had audience members come down and 4 or 5 around each table with just finger tips resting atop the tables. By the end of the segment tables were spinning and sliding all over the stage.

If you have NetFlix I believe it is on one of 3 DVDs.

Cheers
Frank
Message: Posted by: DR STEVE HOSKINS (May 6, 2011 01:20AM)
A link here to YouTube clip of David Berglas performing the Floating Table, this has to be the best ever version of this effect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0n4Ur97L8

Steve
Message: Posted by: Frank Douglas (May 6, 2011 12:28PM)
I'm currently reading "Buckland's Book of Spirit Communications". There is a chapter just on table tipping/floating. A few interesting pictures. I just quickly skimmed that chapter, and have yet to get into in depth, but it does cover some of the methodology used.

Cheers
Frank
Message: Posted by: Moderncelt (May 6, 2011 01:31PM)
I'd be remiss if I didn't suggest that you check out Bob Cassidy's Seance CD/Teleconference. He goes into table tipping/sliding and some tips to make it more effective.
Message: Posted by: Todd Robbins (May 6, 2011 02:49PM)
The Berglas floating table is a very nice trick. But in looking at that clip was amazed by something. I always thought the English were very proper people, and yet there are only two men at that table wearing jackets. They are right across from each other at the table. As I say, this surprised me. I was much less surprising to see only two Americans wearing coats when Copperfield did the trick.

[quote]
On 2011-05-06 02:20, DR STEVE HOSKINS wrote:
A link here to YouTube clip of David Berglas performing the Floating Table, this has to be the best ever version of this effect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0n4Ur97L8

Steve
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: DR STEVE HOSKINS (May 17, 2011 02:25AM)
No jacket required,- long sleeve shirt yes.

Steve
Message: Posted by: markthorold (May 17, 2011 03:53PM)
Dig deep in the old books and the same float can be achieved with all helpers sleeves rolled up if required .Definately a case of "no jacket required " .Same effect different equiptment . But waht would I know lol ?
Mark
Message: Posted by: GeoffreyD (Sep 5, 2011 10:36PM)
[quote]
On 2005-02-25 13:21, Osiris wrote:
For around $40.00 (if I recall correctly) Stevens Magic (gesh, they need to start paying me a commission for all the plugs I give them) has a very cool "device" that permits you to actually levitate a table... it's very cool and loads of fun if you have any level of imagination.
[/quote]

Does anyone know what this device was and where to get it?
Steven's Magic doesn't seem to have it anymore. Is anyone able to PM me with what the device was?