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Topic: Wonder Words
Message: Posted by: MagicSteve84 (Mar 30, 2004 10:11AM)
I am sure it has been discuss on this forum before, however the search is not working right for me at this moment. I am hoping to get some opinions on the Wonder Words CD set. I think they seem over-priced but a lot of top level professional magicians swear by them. Has anyone here purchased them, and if so what review would you give them?

And if I am going to purchase them, should I start with the first one, because "The Real Work" Volume 2 seems the most interesting to me.
Message: Posted by: MAGICBYTIM (Mar 30, 2004 11:04AM)
Steve

Can you give us a link to look at these. I have not heard of them before.

Thanks,

Tim
Message: Posted by: MagicSteve84 (Mar 30, 2004 04:19PM)
Oh sure no problem.

I got this off Murphys Magic Supplies, so the only draw back is that it doesn't have the price listed. My magic dealer however spoke about somewhere in the range of 60 dollars. Does anyone know what the price for there CD's are?

http://murphysmagicsupplies.com/index2.html

Im sorry.....please click on the Hot Products link and then on the Wonder Words CD link. That should give you all the information on these CD's.
Message: Posted by: alexhui (Apr 2, 2004 01:18AM)
Go to Kenton Knepper homepage at
http://www.wonderwizards.com

The price of CD set is US$150. Though I haven't got the set myself, but from the materials I got from Mr. Knepper, it should be worth every penny because it surely increase your magical power if you determine to do
'real magic'.

Alex Hui
Message: Posted by: Ron Reid (Apr 2, 2004 06:45AM)
Hi MagicSteve84:

I have the first set of Kenton's tapes (paid $60.00) and would have to say I was a bit disappointed. I bought them because of all the glowing reviews, including Mike Close's review in MAGIC.

I found Kenton's speaking style to be quite irritating at first, but as I've listened to the tapes a number of time, I've gotten used to him. I actually like him a lot now.

So, I'm not sure what to tell you about my experience. I enjoy listening to the tapes while I'm working on a project or walking dogs, but I'm not sure if I've gotten much usuable information. I use some of the techniques, but I thought much of it was common sense.

Ron
Message: Posted by: MagicSteve84 (Apr 12, 2004 09:12PM)
Thanks for your reply Ron,

Anyone else have anything to say about this product?

please

Steve
Message: Posted by: salsa_dancer (Apr 13, 2004 06:42PM)
Outstanding!

If anyone tells you it isn't they are not 'getting' it. There is a lot of work involved and at first you may not follow, but second time around if you missed it you get.

This will make you think about your presentation, if you want effects it is not really worth the price but for the whole package then it is actually cheap!
Message: Posted by: sticky (Jun 1, 2004 12:25PM)
I was wondering whether to get these cds, I use suggestion and psychology a fair bit in my magic and wondering whether the cds would help learn anything new.
Message: Posted by: magiclarsen (Jul 18, 2004 01:27PM)
The Cd's are worth every penny. Also the 4th CD of every series is a mix cd that you can put in your computer and has a booklet in PDF format with tricks, suggestions and other information that is very useful. I feel that a few of the effects on the cd have more than paid for themselves as well. I cannot reccomend these too highly. If you want to bring your performing to the level of miracles, get these cd's and you will notice results shortly after listening to them a few times!
Message: Posted by: Jason of Oz (Jul 23, 2004 06:51AM)
I found Doc Easons Bar Magic triolgy has several examples of 'wonder words'. Having brought the tapes from D.E. on a tour and being disappointed opn first hearing them, I changed my opinion on their worth BUT it's fairly heavy and requires real dedication to introduce into my material. It's worthwhile but it's not really"me"
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 12, 2005 08:36PM)
[quote]
On 2004-07-18 14:27, magiclarsen wrote:
The Cd's are worth every penny. Also the 4th CD of every series is a mix cd that you can put in your computer and has a booklet in PDF format with tricks, suggestions and other information that is very useful. I feel that a few of the effects on the cd have more than paid for themselves as well. I cannot reccomend these too highly. If you want to bring your performing to the level of miracles, get these cd's and you will notice results shortly after listening to them a few times!
[/quote]

Could someone please explain to me how the wonder words help your tricks look like real miracles? I have heard precious little about the details of this. I too, have been hesitant to purchase because of this.
Message: Posted by: ClouDsss (Jan 13, 2005 02:42AM)
Wonder words are not a set of tricks. it teaches subtities like those that affect ur subconcious mind, etc

it is wat words to use in your presentation to enhance your effect and to maximise the reaction gotten. something like luke jermay style or the likes.

a short thread of doc eason discussing his use of wonder words (of and him promoting it at a special price 2 yrs ago):
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=1606&forum=49&4

cheerios
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 13, 2005 09:10AM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-12 21:36, daffydoug wrote:
...Could someone please explain to me how the wonder words help your tricks look like real miracles? ...[/quote]

Did you notice your shift from auditory to visual in that question?

What if you could induce your audience to experience those shifts as part of your performance?
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 13, 2005 06:20PM)
Ok. I'm listening...
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Jan 13, 2005 06:54PM)
Basically you can use words to lead your audience to conclusions. These CD's are pretty intense and can be a huge boon when writing your scripts. You do script, don't you? Using these techniques in designing your presentation and scripts can really make a huge impact on your impact. People evaluate things by asking questions to themselves. Wouldn't it be powerful to creating a magical experience if you could exert a good level of control over those questions? You would control their experience and conclusions about what happened.

It is similar to NLP but very directed toward magicians and what we do.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Jan 13, 2005 07:45PM)
This could get very detailed, I see...
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 14, 2005 07:16AM)
When ready to read, or perhaps listen to the audios... you will be on your way.

From presuppositions to sensory language, NLP is an interesting field of study.
Message: Posted by: joeyjojo (Jan 16, 2005 03:01PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-13 19:42, salsa_dancer wrote:
Outstanding!
If anyone tells you it isn't they are not 'getting' it. [/quote]

Ah, phooey, this is typical intellectual bullying a la Kenton Knepper himself. To each their own. If you have a university degree chances are much of this will be facile and unoriginal to you. The effects are decent - some better than others, as in many things in life - but the 'techniques' are mostly common sense. Actually, the less you know the more you'll appreciate this (and the more you know the less useful the material will seem. I realise that this too is intellectual bullying but at least in this case the statement is factually true).

My advice is to buy one volume at a time and see to which category you belong: if it is all obvious and unexciting, don't buy the rest. If it is eureka stuff, then you will be more than happy to invest in the other volumes.

adios,
joey
Message: Posted by: tmoca (Jan 16, 2005 03:40PM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-16 16:01, joeyjojo wrote:

Ah, phooey, this is typical intellectual bullying a la Kenton Knepper himself. To each their own. If you have a university degree chances are much of this will be facile and unoriginal to you. The effects are decent - some better than others, as in many things in life - but the 'techniques' are mostly common sense. Actually, the less you know the more you'll appreciate this (and the more you know the less useful the material will seem. I realise that this too is intellectual bullying but at least in this case the statement is factually true).
[/quote]

Lol Well, as a college grad, I would have to say, yes you are right that it is common sense....in a way. We were taught the majority of these uses of the language, but no one until Kenton has told us WHY an HOW it works in conjunction with magic/mentalism.

I feel anyone that dimisses Wonder Words as rubbish or a waste of time, etc, either NEVER listened to them or they totally missed the point. And if that is the case it's better for those of us that are "in the know", that they missed the point anyway...if you know what I mean ;)

I do also agree that you should start with volume one only first. That way if you do miss the point you won't be out much money. But if you find you can't use it, keep it, wait about 2-5 years and give it a listen again. I bet then, as long as you have stuck with magic, that you will find it priceless.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jan 16, 2005 05:11PM)
If you are looking to learn the use of language patterns and communication skills you could do a lot worse, however, I bought them and was dissapointed.

The wonder words series are full of useful information but I was under the impression that Kenton had created new techniques etc, not lifted existing stuff.

I have studied hypnosis and hypnotherapy for a good number of years and applied the techniques and I was already doing this kind of thing (and more) on a subconscious basis.

I guess to someone who has not been into magic as long as I have it would be a good head start but if you have been performing for a while there is a good chance that you already do a lot of this.

If you really want to learn how to use indirect suggestion, conscious / unconscious binds, double binds, calibrating, pacing, presuppositions etc then I would recommend the work of Stephen Brooks.

He was set to burst onto the scene around the same time as Bandler and then left for Thailand. For my money, he is more elegant than Bandler and has really progressed the work of Erickson too.

Just my thoughts on this.
Message: Posted by: Clifford the Red (Jan 16, 2005 11:15PM)
Good suggestions Gambit! I'll have to look up Brooks. Richard Bandler can get a little weird, even for me.
Message: Posted by: j (Jan 16, 2005 11:20PM)
I think I just read a book about NLP in a business setting (got it from the local library a couple months ago), I think. GambitUK1 is this the Stephen Brooks you are talking about? If so, then his stuff is pretty good in my begginer's opinion. Just my two cents.
Message: Posted by: cupsandballsmagic (Jan 17, 2005 02:19AM)
Hi,
Not sure to be honest with you. I was not aware that Brooks had written such a book but he could well have done. A classic of his is the Art of Indirect Hypnosis video. Brooks ran seminars and training sessions which were taped and 99% of his stuff was released on video / tape / CD etc.
Message: Posted by: Hart Keene (Jan 18, 2005 06:52PM)
You all should check out "Maximum Entertainment" by Ken Weber. It covers all this and a whole lot more.
Message: Posted by: tmoca (Jan 19, 2005 04:51AM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-16 18:11, gambituk1 wrote:
if you have been performing for a while there is a good chance that you already do a lot of this.
[/quote]

That's the point of WW and Knepper says it right on the tape. Many of us have been using this for years including myself, but again, WW tells you why and makes you aware of it. That's what I stated before.

And I second the "Maximimun Entertainment" plug
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 19, 2005 07:26AM)
This thread has a neighbor.

The café list currently reads:

Wonder Words
Alien Autopsy

I agree.
Message: Posted by: weepinwil (Jan 23, 2005 08:51PM)
I had the CD's and sold them. They are over hyped as well as over priced in my opinion because most of the stuff I would not be able to sell to an audience. However, there is some psychological subtlties that I liked so I did not see them as a total loss.
Message: Posted by: MagoStevo (Feb 18, 2005 02:59PM)
I just ordered mine yesterday and waiting to get form Kenton Knepper when he arrives at Blackpool convention.hopefully I can get some face to face question to bombard him.Will update you guys when I've done!
Message: Posted by: Doc Eason (Feb 20, 2005 02:17AM)
Put me down as a fan of these concepts, I use them all the time and I think they are terrific. I listen to them months later and hear something I didn't hear before... some of this takes repetition ... if they don't light your candle, fine. but I am sold on the effectiveness... now in fairness some of the stuff I don't buy in to... but in working for real people every day, I use a lot of the techniques.

yes it is really helpful if you write your scripts... that way you can *see* where concepts can apply.

the CDs are the way to go

but for the curious ... I do have some cassette tapes leftover that are GREATLY discounted... contact me ... doc@doceason.com

doc
Message: Posted by: Enigmo (Apr 1, 2005 12:05AM)
The actual problem with the material is that it is hyped so much that it might create expectations that are somewhat impossible to meet, hence the disappointment that some may feel and the impression that they are over-priced.

These tapes will not turn you into instant mentalist or magical stars with superhuman abilities.

That being said, I really like the material as it has provided me with some useful tools to assist me in producing better patter. Every time I listen to the material I do seem to assimilate something new I can use. In that regards, I personally do not regret my investment. Prior to listening to that material, I had no prior knowledge of NLP. Since then, I have bought a few books on NLP. However, most of the material printed in these books is too convoluted for me to use in a magic setting. Mr Knepper has done a good job organizing and providing practical magic related examples.

It is true that I subconsciously already used some of the material. However, it has made more aware of the power of my patter.

Just my opinion...

J-L