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Topic: Mem deck from FSDIU
Message: Posted by: Terrible Wizard (Apr 17, 2017 09:08AM)
It strikes me that being able to quickly and easily arrange a FSDIU deck into memdeck order would be something of a 'holy grail'. But it seems very hard/elusive to achieve!

Putting aside deck switches, which aren't the same things, the closest ideas I've come across are:

The Si Stebbins secret (and similar) of getting into Memdeck order (MD) from NDO, and the Subtle Game for Nikola. Going from NDO isn't from FSDIU, so that can be put aside.

It seems the best candidate for a solution to the issue of MD from FSDIU is to stack the deck during one or more preceding effects. Other than the subtle game reference, do people have any other references or ideas in this area?
Message: Posted by: sgtgrey (Apr 17, 2017 09:21AM)
Check out Adrian Guerra's act on Euphoria, put out by Vernet. He gives two solid acts, one stand up and one close-up. The close-up one is basically designed around the idea of a "borrowed," FASDIU deck and getting into a memorized deck stack. Part of it uses what I'd call "A Subtle Game" or a version of it, and the rest is stuff you can find inside Mnemonica and other texts - none of it was new to me, but seeing it put together in an entertaining way that smoothly got the cards in order over the course of a few effects was very instructive.

Another idea which wasn't mentioned here, btw, but you may want to look into is the idea of "getting home" discussed in Denis Behr's books (which, if you haven't read, I highly recommend you check out). The general concept is the idea of using tricks that change the deck's order in predictable ways and begin with a stack that will end up in memorized deck order over the course of these types of effects. In fact, I had put together one such routine where the deck goes from "mixed" to "red/black" to "memorized deck" to "stay stack" to "NDO" over the course of just 3 to 4 tricks - just as a thought exercise.
Message: Posted by: Terrible Wizard (Apr 17, 2017 09:23AM)
Thanks for the references Sgt. Grey :)

Why is borrowed in quotes ?

And is there a specific Behr book you had in mind?
Message: Posted by: sgtgrey (Apr 17, 2017 11:39AM)
Borrowed is only in quotes because when Adrian performs it, he does provide a new, sealed deck himself, which the spectators then open, inspect, and shuffle to their hearts' content. But it could just as easily be any deck of cards. Sorry for the confusion!

Denis' books are called Handcrafted Card Magic Vol 1 & 2. I believe the first one begins the discussion of "finding your way home" and Volume 2 provides some additional ideas. So you definitely want to check out the first volume, but I would highly recommend getting both. Aside from stack work, there are some other wonderful ideas in these two small books.
Message: Posted by: Terrible Wizard (Apr 17, 2017 11:52AM)
Thank you :)
Message: Posted by: avasatu (Apr 17, 2017 02:20PM)
I glimpse the bottom card, Aronson spread force it, and do a "warmup" where I figure out the missing card as I scroll through. In actuality, I Roadrunner cull cards 1-29 to the top and then announce their card, and toss it into whichever half it goes. I do an Ireland shuffle, then split the deck at the culled cards, turn half face up, riffle shuffle them in, do a false slop shuffle, then spread the cards on the table so that the low cards are face up, "memorize" them, then look away and have the spec turn a single additional card face up and shuffle however he wishes, making sure no cards are turned over. I have him (or myself) go through and separate face ups and face downs into two piles. I don't want to give away the rest, since it's still a work in progress, but the short story from there is that I take the face ups, toss them face down onto the table in a certain order as quickly as possible from a fan, leaving all but his card, as if recalling all the face up cards from the earlier spread. Then I recite every card in the face down pile as if remembering which cards are left in the deck that I never saw. Based on the order I call out and toss down the cards, I am able to finish with two partial faros and the deck is in stack order. Takes some decent acting and/or bsing.
Message: Posted by: adiabaticman (Apr 17, 2017 02:30PM)
Avasatu, this sounds like a great routine to end in stack order.
Message: Posted by: sgtgrey (Apr 17, 2017 02:59PM)
If you like what Avasatu is saying, Eurphoria routine will be a perfect fit! ;)
Message: Posted by: adiabaticman (Apr 17, 2017 05:20PM)
Thanks sgtgrey. I actually own Euphoria and have watched parts of it. I should go back and spend more time on it.
Message: Posted by: avasatu (Apr 18, 2017 05:01PM)
[quote]On Apr 17, 2017, adiabaticman wrote:
Avasatu, this sounds like a great routine to end in stack order. [/quote]

Thanks. I either do it as a warmup with a borrowed or spec-shuffled deck, or as a transition from FASDIU to mem deck.
Message: Posted by: Steven Keyl (Apr 20, 2017 08:25AM)
I stack the deck on the fly with Tamariz' "Memory Jumble" from Mnemonica. Similar to avasatu, I use Lennart Green's Angle Separation to get the cards into 1-26 and 27-52 separated halves. Then have 2 spectators shuffle those halves separately, then together face up into face down. Then shuffle some more. Without getting into the workings, you end up with an apparently thoroughly shuffled deck, when in fact, you have half the deck stacked in your memdeck of choice.

One trick later and I've got 32 cards stacked which allows me to perform my favorite memdeck effect. Many memdeck effects do not require, or can be subtly reworked, so that not all 52 cards need to be in order. In my experience, this is the most flexible setup. Of course, if you need to stack those last 20 cards, "a subtle game" works great in this context. That procedure with the whole deck can be tedious, but with just 20 can impress people without dragging on.

Best of luck finding a procedure that works for you.
Message: Posted by: Terrible Wizard (Apr 20, 2017 10:11AM)
That's great Steven, thanks :) At the moment I'm leaning towards the subtle game being the best way of stacking the whole deck from FSDIU.
Message: Posted by: Orlan (Apr 25, 2017 05:22AM)
Even though I'm just learning about this through Patrick Redford's new book, John Hamman published a way to get into Si Stebbins from a shuffled deck (or to be technically correct, it was Richard Kaufman who published it in his book about Hamman ;) ). Patrick shows how to move into his stack, from Si Stebbins.

I haven't had a chance to play with it, but it sounds interesting.
Message: Posted by: Terrible Wizard (Apr 25, 2017 05:42AM)
That does sound very interesting - moving from FSDIU to Si Stebbins - awesome. :) Are you able to give any more info? Is it set-up via a trick, or tricks, - or done some other way?
Message: Posted by: Orlan (Apr 25, 2017 07:41AM)
You can find more info about it by searching for the Hamman Chinese shuffle. I think it's okay if I describe it as a multi step open cull.
Yes, it can be set up by doing a few tricks (Patrick shows a multi phase routine to set it up), but you can easily break up those steps in between any tricks you already do. You could hide it, but it's not really a hidden action. It looks like you move around a few cards, but by doing it a few times you end up In Si Stebbins.
Message: Posted by: Terrible Wizard (Apr 25, 2017 08:40AM)
Thanks :)
Message: Posted by: vernonscigar (Oct 16, 2017 11:45AM)
[quote]On Apr 20, 2017, Terrible Wizard wrote:
That's great Steven, thanks :) At the moment I'm leaning towards the subtle game being the best way of stacking the whole deck from FSDIU. [/quote]

Are you guys actually doing this? A whole deck? Really? Even half a deck is boring after a while. How are you possible making this entertaining?
Message: Posted by: Steven Keyl (Oct 19, 2017 07:30AM)
Good point, vernonscigar. Presentation is everything. That's what the makes the difference between something entertaining and something that's... well... not.

For me, I have a multi-phase routine that builds. Each phase is showing something interesting. What specs don't realize is that with each phase I'm constructing more of the stack (or leading them further away from thinking a stack could possibly be in play).

My greatest sense of accomplishment came from realizing that the final climactic phase could be done with just a 32 card stack. I didn't need all 52 cards arranged. It opened up possibilities that, in this multi-phase routine, wouldn't have been possible otherwise.

The key for me is that each phase needs to be interesting enough to stand on its own and not just a series of "lesser tricks" in order to get to the stacked deck.
Message: Posted by: Patrick Redford (Oct 19, 2017 01:17PM)
I have several entertaining and secret ways to get into a memorized deck (some of which are in Temporarily Out of Order and other methods that have been made easter eggs in the online components that you get access to with the book - these consequently work with any stack). They're certainly not boring, easy to do (if you know a stack cold) and some allow you to get into stack in the context of just one short routine. That said, there are some really wonderful partial stack effects that are worth exploring (Tamariz and Aronson both have some great thoughts on the subject that are worth your time).