(Close Window)
Topic: Britain's Got Talent Russ Stevens in fix and exposure row
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Apr 28, 2017 03:03AM)
Everything from Light and Heavy Box , to Linx electronic 'blackboard' (including the workings ) to
roughing fluid

See Below :

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/britains-talent-fix-row-schoolgirl-10293440#ICID=ios_TMNewsApp_AppShare_Click_FBshare
Message: Posted by: TidyYourRoom (Apr 28, 2017 03:13AM)
Don't give more clicks on this horrible, jealous piece of INSERT BAD WORD HERE. Delete your post.
Message: Posted by: Karl M (Apr 28, 2017 03:29AM)
I agree get rid of it and its got nothing to do with the latest and gratest just stiringnitnup and any way who was the source in the industry what gave away the secrets was it you then jack magic?
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Apr 28, 2017 03:45AM)
I am against all forms of exposure you only have to look at my posts when Brian bushwood exposed the ID on you tube

Fact is BGT is the highest rated show in
The U.K. And something to consider if you take part in this show you stand a good chance of your effect getting exposed on YouTube or in the papers

Anyone using the Linx Item now will have to re consider his or her act

What price for 5 mins of fame is it worth it !
Message: Posted by: Karl M (Apr 28, 2017 03:56AM)
Ok sorry jack magic I was quick to jump the gun about you there mate all fair comments what you made I would never go on bgt now and I did speak to one of the producer about it this year so glad I didn't go to itin the end
Message: Posted by: Karl M (Apr 28, 2017 04:03AM)
Check out this vid at 46 seconds youcan see russ Steven buying it lol https://www.magicshop.co.uk/lynx-blackboard-by-lynx-magic-trick
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Apr 28, 2017 05:17AM)
Who ever Mr Anonymous is he must be pretty pi$$ed to go to expose like that - all the effects. I wonder how much the papers paid him for the story and exposure. Shame
Message: Posted by: corindaman (Apr 28, 2017 05:19AM)
Surely the Magic fraternity should be able to name and shame the source that gave it all away to a newspaper? Get searching everyone!
Message: Posted by: mike donoghue (Apr 28, 2017 08:29AM)
Doesn't really matter how stuff works.

What is more important is if it is done well.

Got to say that young Issy did her act brilliantly & was a charm to watch.

Her Grandfather Russ Stevens must be very proud of her.

Best presentation of magic I have seen for ages.

Mike Donoghue
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Apr 28, 2017 08:34AM)
She did excellent performance it's a shame that "someone " had to go and expose the whole act totally unnecessary
Message: Posted by: cardbiker (Apr 28, 2017 08:35AM)
To be honest if I'd spent 6 grand on a Lynx Blackboard I wouldn't be too pleased to let everyone know that an 8 year old could do it
Message: Posted by: TidyYourRoom (Apr 28, 2017 08:42AM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2017, corindaman wrote:
Surely the Magic fraternity should be able to name and shame the source that gave it all away to a newspaper? Get searching everyone! [/quote]

How do you suggest we 'search'. A magician told a reporter how to do the tricks. The reporter isn't going to reveal his source. So, what other ideas do you have?
Message: Posted by: davidredfearn (Apr 28, 2017 08:42AM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2017, PRINCE wrote:
Who ever Mr Anonymous is he must be pretty pi$$ed to go to expose like that - all the effects. I wonder how much the papers paid him for the story and exposure. Shame [/quote]

Probably a £100 if that. It’s abhorrent that some lowlife would expose any secrets let alone these, through nothing more than jealousy.

But that’s the problem with magic in this age, the secrets are all there for anyone to see and hardly protected online. Many wealthy dealers having no selection process at all only interested in the sale.

Now anyone is privy to these creations and if they fancy it can expose!
Message: Posted by: Ross W (Apr 28, 2017 09:25AM)
Blimey, chill out everyone. Yes, it's annoying, but let's not forget: Jamie Raven's Bill In Lemon, also on BGT, was exposed by the same newspaper. I'll bet people are still performing it. Readers have short memories. Over the years, The Masked Magician has exposed pretty much every main trick and plenty of obscure ones. It's not helpful to our art, but nor is it fatal.
Message: Posted by: magicinsight (Apr 28, 2017 09:31AM)
On the one hand you have all this unnecessary exposure of effects which is not at all relevant to the main idea of the article. Then on the other hand you have a magician/coach who works for the show who is helping his own grandchild doing magic on the very same "talent contest" show that he is working for. There is plenty of shame to go around.
Message: Posted by: pancho247 (Apr 28, 2017 09:46AM)
Does anyone know who mr anonymous is?
Message: Posted by: johndevacmaker (Apr 28, 2017 10:48AM)
No but I would like to know and to name and shame

It would be great to be able to expose all the things he or she does to all and sundry in a daily newspaper if you can call the Mirror that
So Shame on them for printing the story

I really hope she doesn't loose heart about this it was a polished performance and she has a lovely personality
I am sure Russ is very proud of her
Message: Posted by: saysold1 (Apr 28, 2017 10:55AM)
What a load of garbage. Very sad.

The problem I see is that over the years AGT and BGT producers now expect magic on steroids - leading to the tech being used rampantly now - by a kid in this case.

Sure people will forget this and not everyone will see the exposure - but it still hurts the art.

I like the tech too but Mat Franco won in the USA by using skill and good routining.

Putting a cute highly scripted kid (who's insider relative works on the show) on loaded with tech overlay - well, I guess that's show biz.

It still stings.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Apr 28, 2017 11:03AM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2017, davidredfearn wrote:
[quote]On Apr 28, 2017, PRINCE wrote:
Who ever Mr Anonymous is he must be pretty pi$$ed to go to expose like that - all the effects. I wonder how much the papers paid him for the story and exposure. Shame [/quote]

Probably a £100 if that. It’s abhorrent that some lowlife would expose any secrets let alone these, through nothing more than jealousy.

But that’s the problem with magic in this age, the secrets are all there for anyone to see and hardly protected online. Many wealthy dealers having no selection process at all only interested in the sale.

Now anyone is privy to these creations and if they fancy it can expose! [/quote]



I agree 100% with this post it's totally appalling and part of the whole problem with social media . The public don't even want to know the secrets they want to be entertained and so some a.s.o.e goes and does this purely out of spite Tarik 😔
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Apr 28, 2017 11:21AM)
It really is a shame and your right Tarik. This I feel could have been a previous contestant who maybe didn't get through and a bit envious and jealous maybe. However, if it is true that the rules state that your material has to be original and not used before etc, then to find Issy used material already performed - then that I don't think is fair and cant have one rule for one and one for another. So if this is the case of what happened, I can in a way see why Mr Anonymous is/was pi$$ed if he went to the effort of trying to make his act original with unseen material to then see how the rules got bent for someone else.
Message: Posted by: TidyYourRoom (Apr 28, 2017 11:24AM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2017, PRINCE wrote:
if it is true that the rules state that your material has to be original [/quote]

Of course they don't state that. people do cover songs on it all the time.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Apr 28, 2017 11:43AM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2017, TidyYourRoom wrote:
[quote]On Apr 28, 2017, PRINCE wrote:
if it is true that the rules state that your material has to be original [/quote]

Of course they don't state that. people do cover songs on it all the time. [/quote]

I agree with you on this but I don't think copying songs and magic routines are the same ( well they are certainly not seen as the same ) . For example you could do a gig singing every week ( as thousands do ) covering other peoples songs even singing them in the same style and no one minds . You copy word for word someone's magic act and persona ( I know it happens ) but expect to be slaughtered quite rightly imo in the nicest possible sense of the word as I couldn't think of the appropriate one . I think you can do the same methods magic wise on BGT just not copy a routine . Regards Tarik 🙂
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Apr 28, 2017 12:07PM)
I Agree Tarik.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Apr 28, 2017 12:44PM)
Thankfully only idiots that can't read properly buy the Daily Mirror.
Message: Posted by: Karl M (Apr 28, 2017 01:03PM)
Oi! I read it mate donnt be so snobbey
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Apr 28, 2017 01:06PM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2017, Karl M wrote:
Oi! I read it mate donnt be so snobbey [/quote]

See what I mean?
Message: Posted by: Ray Chelt (Apr 28, 2017 01:20PM)
Some jealous little bottom feeder trying to earn a few bob by selling themselves to the papers.
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Apr 28, 2017 01:29PM)
Unfortunately yes. Its sad as the implications of the actions doesn't just effect Issy as a come back, but rather the damage to us magicians and worse for those who actually use the routines in their act.
Imagine performing the lnyx board, paying 3K for it and use it regularly, to now having to drop something so strong from your act with the fear of people having seen the article and knowing the workings. Plus the word of mouth and gossip from people of how she did it all etc. Lets not get into "don't worry people will forget they read the secret etc" rubbish... a few weeks, months etc down the line after someone has read that article and you see someone perform this on stage you will remember exactly the workings of it and how it was done - especially being the prop it is. Or if that one person doesn't 'remember' or know someone else will know and tell them.
Such a shame
Message: Posted by: Karl M (Apr 28, 2017 02:05PM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2017, pegasus wrote:
[quote]On Apr 28, 2017, Karl M wrote:
Oi! I read it mate donnt be so snobbey [/quote]

See what I mean? [/quote]
No mate
Message: Posted by: Michael Clifton (Apr 28, 2017 02:49PM)
This primarily Lynx's fault which I mentioned about a year ago. They openly expose the workings
themselves in a video, that was not password protected and openly re-posted by magic dealers.
THIS is no excuse for exposure, and it drives me mad when you see reveal videos 2 mins later
after a performance, but when you chase the mighty dollar all morals become compromised..
The media are not interested in our art, they are ruled by MONEY and ratings. Luckily though,
unless you have an interest in the art,or know all spectator, you are not going to go to the
trouble of sourcing how everything is done..and let's face it,you don't want to entertain those
types anyway...Most people enjoy and move on...
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Apr 28, 2017 02:55PM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2017, PRINCE wrote:
Unfortunately yes. Its sad as the implications of the actions doesn't just effect Issy as a come back, but rather the damage to us magicians and worse for those who actually use the routines in their act.
Imagine performing the lnyx board, paying 3K for it and use it regularly, to now having to drop something so strong from your act with the fear of people having seen the article and knowing the workings. Plus the word of mouth and gossip from people of how she did it all etc. Lets not get into "don't worry people will forget they read the secret etc" rubbish... a few weeks, months etc down the line after someone has read that article and you see someone perform this on stage you will remember exactly the workings of it and how it was done - especially being the prop it is. Or if that one person doesn't 'remember' or know someone else will know and tell them.
Such a shame [/quote]

Thing is though, it is VERY unlikely that you will meet someone who has read the article or heard about it.

For example, if 2 million people have read the article and 1 million have heard it through word of mouth...then by maths...there are 360 million english speaking people in the world...the chance of meeting someone who knows about the article is 0.8%...

But then again the 2 million I believe is a giant overestimate...

Nothing to be worried about IMO.

SLEEPY
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Apr 28, 2017 03:54PM)
These are the pros and cons of technology . The internet serves a great purpose but there is payback time to . The lynx board exists because of great technology but the flip side is everyone who wants to know about it can through YouTube etc . It wouldn't have been created in the first place if we hadn't gone down the road we are now so it is what it is . That is why sleight of hand will always inevitably be a better option and will stand the test of time where as electronics which I love and certainly has its place in magic will always evolve and certain logical spectators will work it out . Anyway less people see these things than you think as Sleepy quite rightly says . I mean if you asked someone what percentage of the population worldwide was on Facebook they would say a lot more than the 24.8 % that actually are . This is less than 1 in 4 , 1.86 billion users latest figures and a world population of 7.5 billion latest figures I will let you do the maths Tarik 😊
Message: Posted by: sjrw (Apr 28, 2017 05:10PM)
I don't care about the exposure... I just feel sorry for the kid. She did a good job with her performance. She was entertaining AND she had the confidence to go on stage and do what she did. Fair play to her... but now the media is tearing her act apart.
That must feel awful for anyone, let alone an eight year old.
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Apr 28, 2017 05:26PM)
I don't think it's a case of meeting someone who knows about it, it's more of the people knowing about this sho is present in an audience when you perform it. Yes I know in the defence of the point that this could be said about a lot of things that a magician/mentalist performs, but with this being such a high profiled topic of conversation if it was me personally and had this in my stand up show then would have to take it out.
I know you take a chance with everything you perform and can never guarantee that anything you perform your audience will not know how it works etc, but to stand up there perform a show (if mentalism - not a magic show) basically showing your skills in mind reading, psychology, being psychic etc however you want to dress it up to how your doing it (obviously not setting the premise that your just a magician performing tricks) then perform this, someone or people on the audience then associate this with that 'trick' they seen a girl do on BGT when exposed and them now knowing it's just a clever $3000 trick, your credibility as now anything other than you just a magician performing tricks is now your image. Not someone who is very good as psychology, has a psychic gift, can maybe read minds etc.
Message: Posted by: Ross W (Apr 29, 2017 07:03AM)
The other thing to remember, and it is VERY relevant in this case is this:

Britain's Got Talent is NOT a talent competition.

It is a variety show dressed up as a talent competition, at least in the early stages. The producers pick who they want in the show. Doing well in the auditions is no guarantee AT ALL of progressing through to the next round (as a friend of mine has just discovered). Things become much "fairer" once the viewing audience is asked to vote, but until then everything is entirely at the discretion of the producers.

"Contestants" are made well aware of this when they take part.

The whole thing is an illusion, designed to make the show as entertaining as possible for the viewers at home.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Apr 29, 2017 07:13AM)
[quote]On Apr 29, 2017, Ross W wrote:
The other thing to remember, and it is VERY relevant in this case is this:

Britain's Got Talent is NOT a talent competition.

It is a variety show dressed up as a talent competition, at least in the early stages. The producers pick who they want in the show. Doing well in the auditions is no guarantee AT ALL of progressing through to the next round (as a friend of mine has just discovered). Things become much "fairer" once the viewing audience is asked to vote, but until then everything is entirely at the discretion of the producers.

"Contestants" are made well aware of this when they take part.

The whole thing is an illusion, designed to make the show as entertaining as possible for the viewers at home. [/quote]

Spot on Ross couldn't agree more with you Tarik 😊
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Apr 29, 2017 07:54AM)
Well said Ross and totally agree
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Apr 29, 2017 09:17AM)
On the one hand, no one wants exposure of methods. On the other hand, it's been going on for decades in one way or another. Personally, I would prefer zero exposure of methods on the internet and in the media. But that's not going to happen. The magic community is very creative. New methods and routines are continually being developed and introduced, in part to find a new way to perform an effect that was previously exposed.

None of us like exposure. But it does tend to drive innovation.
Message: Posted by: kannon (Apr 29, 2017 09:28AM)
Yeah it's pretty low to attack an 8 year girl ... who, regardless of who her family is, did an amazing job and performed fantastically and confidently... far better, arguably, than a large number of performers.

But...

WE DID THIS TO OURSELVES.
DON'T WHINE ABOUT THE EXPOSURE.

You go around making facebook pages for magic products, magic shops, share them publicly, posting open forums, google things and make Youtube product advertisements, creating magic shows called "FOOL US" ...

to Quote Tyler Durden "WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?!"
Message: Posted by: Stucky (Apr 29, 2017 04:17PM)
[quote]On Apr 28, 2017, saysold1 wrote:

Sure people will forget this and not everyone will see the exposure - but it still hurts the art.

[/quote]

What hurts magic more is bad performers. Exposure is a drop in the bucket compared to the gigs lost because of shabby magi.

[quote]
to Quote Tyler Durden "WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?!" [/quote]

^THIS!
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (Apr 30, 2017 03:34AM)
Warning to any Illusionist that performs

Things that goes bump in the night

I saw the last part of female magician that did an very good updated version of this on last nights BGT

Expect that rag of a newspaper to expose that next
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Apr 30, 2017 04:42AM)
My fear is that when Issy performs in the next round - to which it will be aired as currently she's the nations sweet heart which makes great ratings and viewings etc, who ever Mr Annonomous is will do a follow up and expose her 2nd act as well. He's obviously got it in for not her - but Russ and as payback for what ever (especially when the press chase him with an offer for the exposure again) will be reading a 2nd article shortly of the next instalment on his rant and exposure.
Must be so difficult for Russ and Issy in how to deal and take this now forward.
Message: Posted by: Karl M (Apr 30, 2017 05:26AM)
She should pull out of the competition now I think
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Apr 30, 2017 05:49AM)
[quote]On Apr 30, 2017, Karl M wrote:
She should pull out of the competition now I think [/quote]

that's a bit extreme...

I think you guys are taking this waaaayyy too far....every person that I have met who have seen her has just praised her! Hardly anyone reads these tyoes of articles!

Sleepy
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Apr 30, 2017 06:42AM)
Let's not confuse the issue with 'us' having a problem with her and I don't think anyone can deny she did an amazing performance and don't think there is anyone on here that hasn't got praise for her. But the topic is about how we feel about the exposure and my comment is about imagining how Russ and Issy must feel right now knowing that a high percentage of people are now aware of what really went on in her act. How awful must that be in no matter wheter it's the whole audience when she performs next or whether it be one person in the audience that knows the truth - they will especially Issy feel conscious if it.
It's a difficult one to go through and for wrong entertainment purposes, which who's to say that when she performs next time one of the judges makes reference to the article on air?!?! Because that could happen - hopefully it doesn't BUT in the past they have made reference to press articles on the show etc etc.
Either way how they move forward from ordeal, this is going to be difficult in knowing how to play it best.
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Apr 30, 2017 07:23AM)
[quote]On Apr 30, 2017, Karl M wrote:
She should pull out of the competition now I think [/quote]

That's a great life lesson for an 8-year-old. Stop sharing something you love because one AH who apparently is jealous of the little girl is attacking her. At 8, she had more stage presence than most, and presented her self very well.

I think she should do a torn and restored with the Mirror and turn public sentiment against them. The cute little girl doing what she loves against the big nasty paper attacking her.
Message: Posted by: Karl M (Apr 30, 2017 09:15AM)
The pressure is to much for 8 year old girl and the news papers will build up more pressure plus exposure of tricks are bad for all of us so quit while shes ahed,thats my advice and I have been studying the business side of things so know a bit about it all
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Apr 30, 2017 09:28AM)
I hate exposure, but the linking rings and TT have been exposed for years but both have withstood the assault.

Best
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Apr 30, 2017 10:17AM)
[quote]On Apr 30, 2017, Steven Conner wrote:
I hate exposure, but the linking rings and TT have been exposed for years but both have withstood the assault.

Best [/quote]

Withstood the assault in what way? ?This is an example on a genuine situation I unfortunately witnessed 3 weeks ago. Myself and a colleague were entertaining at an event doing walk around. As I came towards the centre of the room entertaining from my end, I seen him performing to a group of people. As I watched him about 8 feet away in the back ground, I seen him perform a bill switch using a TT. After the bill got changed a guest then said (and one of those cocky ones we all know) "i know how you did that - you have a plastic T.... I know as it was on TV a couple of months ago."

I was cringing for him and he quickly went on to something else. The point is people do remember exposure and what they read and see - may not be everyone but a high percentage imo opinion.
Message: Posted by: cardbiker (Apr 30, 2017 10:18AM)
[quote]On Apr 30, 2017, Karl M wrote:
The pressure is to much for 8 year old girl and the news papers will build up more pressure plus exposure of tricks are bad for all of us so quit while shes ahed,thats my advice and I have been studying the business side of things so know a bit about it all [/quote]

Karl,did you used to be Jamie Ferguson?
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Apr 30, 2017 10:27AM)
I agree that exposure of things like the TT and DL have affected the magic community aswell! I was performing for a stranger and I did the effect where a card changes into theirs in their hand and they immediately exclaimed "that was a d.... L...". It was quite embarassing....then I performed envylope and he was blown away!

HOWEVER, in this situation with Issy and this news website, the impact is soooooo miniscule, it is almost negligible IMO. Its like adding one drop of oil to the ocean and then saying that this will cause mass pollution, which it wont!

Just what I think.


Sleepy
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Apr 30, 2017 10:28AM)
Lol

He's going to say... "who's that mate?"
Message: Posted by: Afal (Apr 30, 2017 10:31AM)
I doubt this "exposure" will hurt her. Publications have written speculations and "exposures" of magicians before. Derren Brown's Russian Roulette stunt and his Lottery Prediction come to mind; and people are still talking about Jamie Raven despite the bill in lemon incident (in fact, I rarely hear "lemons" being used in the same sentence whenever he's mentioned).
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Apr 30, 2017 10:40AM)
[quote]On Apr 30, 2017, Afal wrote:
I doubt this "exposure" will hurt her. Publications have written speculations and "exposures" of magicians before. Derren Brown's Russian Roulette stunt and his Lottery Prediction come to mind; and people are still talking about Jamie Raven despite the bill in lemon incident (in fact, I rarely hear "lemons" being used in the same sentence whenever he's mentioned). [/quote]

Exactly my point!

Sleepy
Message: Posted by: Steven Conner (Apr 30, 2017 01:39PM)
[quote]On Apr 30, 2017, PRINCE wrote:
[quote]On Apr 30, 2017, Steven Conner wrote:
I hate exposure, but the linking rings and TT have been exposed for years but both have withstood the assault.

Best [/quote]

Withstood the assault in what way? ?This is an example on a genuine situation I unfortunately witnessed 3 weeks ago. Myself and a colleague were entertaining at an event doing walk around. As I came towards the centre of the room entertaining from my end, I seen him performing to a group of people. As I watched him about 8 feet away in the back ground, I seen him perform a bill switch using a TT. After the bill got changed a guest then said (and one of those cocky ones we all know) "i know how you did that - you have a plastic T.... I know as it was on TV a couple of months ago."

I was cringing for him and he quickly went on to something else. The point is people do remember exposure and what they read and see - may not be everyone but a high percentage imo opinion. [/quote]

One of the real basics of magic is having more than one way to do an effect. You will always have hecklers and must learn to deal with them accordingly. I remember performing the rings one time and afterwards had a gentlemen say he had bought a set for his son, but it had a break in one of the rings. I told him it must have been one of those TV sets. For the last few years, I haven't been using a g****ck. My point Prince is I use a TT all the time without a problem, and a ton of people know they exist. Whenever challenged, be prepared to perform something similiar if necessary with a different method. As magicians we know exposure exists and shouldn't be caught unprepared. As with the little girl, its very unfortunate. Don't put a child in an adult world.

Best

Steve
Message: Posted by: PRINCE (Apr 30, 2017 07:58PM)
I know what your saying and your right. As with everything any of us perform there is always that danger that someone could potentially know the secret as exposed on YouTube, masked magician etc. You can't really prepare for it either in a sense. Neither can you change the way you perform something, if you get called out after you have performed it - like the example above. My fellow magician performed the bill switch and only then did he get called out after he had finished, so he couldn't change the handling, routine etc as he had finished performing it - then that spectator announced the secret. If he mentioned something midway, or at the start the magi could have thought on his feet and maybe salvaged the situation. So it's ok saying we have be prepaired to adapt to situations like this - but you can't adapt or change anything if you have finished performing a trick, then they expose out loud.

Let's just hope Issy comes fighting back and hasn't knocked her confidence that much.
Message: Posted by: TheSecretFire (Apr 30, 2017 08:16PM)
I went ahead and googled: "magician bgt", and the bulk of page 1 was exposure of magic acts.

A couple years ago, when I was still performing at college-proximity gigs, I'd get a wide variety of hecklers: frat guys who wanted the girls to look at them and not the magician who was hired for the event, or the easily-offended SJW's, or the know-it-all's who had to make sure everyone knew their IQ was through the roof, angry drunks, etc., etc. This forced me to start re-thinking how stuff is presented and how else moves can be used. I would frequently get people who had seen scam school and knew what an ID is, or what a h***u !@#$* looks like, and how to spot a DL. As a result, I needed all the moves I used to be bulletproof, and started adding a bit of a "mental" flair to the card magic.

What I'm getting at is: Many of these acts which get exposed are the ones done with conventional or commercial methods - like that blackboard: it looks identical to how it looked at purchase. With a bit of dressing-up and method-disproving feature at the beginning, it could work the same, but it wouldn't be recognizable to someone who's trying to figure the method.

Since we know it was a magician (and frequently is in previous exposures) who explained it to the journalist, then maybe performers on these talent shows should start using lesser-known methods, or putting outside-the-box spins on existing ones, thus making it more difficult for these &^$%#@'s to correctly expose the method.

Also, I really enjoyed her performance. Not blaming her for someone else's decision to expose the act. But in future cases, I think it would be good to embed a "magician fooling" aspect, to throw off anyone who wants to get paid for exposure.
Message: Posted by: Karl M (May 1, 2017 01:07PM)
I just saw this it is an importent message from Issy ...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1oKXnGXUehA
Message: Posted by: The Duster (May 1, 2017 02:20PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2017, Karl M wrote:
I just saw this it is an importent message from Issy ...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1oKXnGXUehA [/quote]

That is rather wonderful

Probably the best response possible - the newspaper should feel bad about that

I keep meaning to post - when a paper cites an anonymous source – much of the time there is no source

It’s a secret news speak for ‘we did a bit or research’, or ‘we are pretty sure this is true’

Like when a paper says ‘a friend’ of some celebrity said ‘x’ – it’s never a friend, it’s always the celebrity themselves. For example, ‘a friend of Victoria Beckham says she loves her new hairdo’

Anyway back to the anonymous source – I doubt you will find ‘him/her’ – as most likely it’s the journalist who wrote the story or a junior person at the paper. All they will have done is googled for the info, or emailed Lynx [pretending to want to buy one, asking how it works], etc. But rather than say… ‘we googled/asked’ it gets ‘sexed up’ – or turned into new[spaper]speak as ‘a top secret source told us’

Anyway – lovely video from the act

It won’t shame the paper, as they won’t report on the video… I wonder if they will listen to it?
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (May 1, 2017 02:53PM)
Like when a paper says ‘a friend’ of some celebrity said ‘x’ – it’s never a friend, it’s always the celebrity themselves. For example, ‘a friend of Victoria Beckham says she loves her new hairdo’


This is obvious in your quote above as who else would say it ? I mean have you seen her hair do 😄

With regards to there being no real leaker of information , you also state they only have to google lynx pretending to buy one ? How the hell would they know it's made by lynx magic and it's electronic etc etc someone must give people this info one way or another .

I do agree it was a lovely performance by Issy though and a lovely video of her asking for people not expose the wonderful routine and the others she will surely do in the future . Best wishes Tarik 😊
Message: Posted by: JackMagic (May 1, 2017 03:21PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2017, Karl M wrote:
I just saw this it is an importent message from Issy ...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1oKXnGXUehA [/quote]


Maybe we should all email the editor of the Daily Mirror he might then get the message!
Message: Posted by: The Duster (May 1, 2017 03:48PM)
[quote]On May 1, 2017, Tarik Flash wrote:
you also state they only have to google lynx pretending to buy one ? [/quote]

Sorry that was two different things, using google, and emailing the maker of the item

They were just examples

Yes - an instigating journalist will very easily be able to investigate and find out how it works

Maybe the paper has a magician that has a column - and they just asked him/her - I don't read the paper so I don't know

But it's not hard to find out how it was done

TBH [although I said Google/email the maker] by far the most likely explanation is they just read forum comments as whether it's digital spy or YouTube [or elsewhere] - you always get someone saying 'I'm a magician, she just used an easy trick called x that cost y that does everything for you'

And of course after using the internet and reading that - they can google a bit for any further background - but they will list the source as anonymous
Message: Posted by: The Duster (May 1, 2017 03:51PM)
I'm saying there was NO anonymous source

But it's very unlikely there is - as it would be far more work, calling round magicians asking them if they know and if they want to reveal the method

So trying to find someone who did that for £100 [er anyone really think the source would get paid for this????] would be a waste of time

As close to 100% of the time there isn't anyone to find
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (May 1, 2017 05:24PM)
This is more food for thought and not my view on it but it did make me think ? I was speaking to a couple of magicians about this earlier and one said ( and we all know Jamie had the bill to lemon and other effects pretty much exposed when he was on ) that part of the problem is if you have a young child using props of this expense it's much more likely to be exposed simply because if a child can do it then the anyone can attitude strikes a chord . Therefore an adult magician wouldnt create the same almost special powers and it would be more believable that he or she has massively honed their art over many years . I mean you just wouldnt get a child using £3000 props in general so it's more likely to create speculation on looking up the method . Lynx didn't do themselves any favours when they advertised this to all and sundry showing the full workings ( which I know was pointed out earlier by someone in this thread ) when it first came out . I personally hope Issy wins the show as I thought she was great despite the obvious leg up she must have got all round from getting the props organising the routine and definately getting her performance aired . Anyway good luck to her and Russ he must be enormously proud of her and she thoroughly desrerves to go far on merit as she handled everything brilliantly up there . Best magic to all Tarik 😊
Message: Posted by: MazingMandy (May 2, 2017 08:20AM)
[quote]On Apr 30, 2017, Karl M wrote:
The pressure is to much for 8 year old girl and the news papers will build up more pressure plus exposure of tricks are bad for all of us so quit while shes ahed,thats my advice and I have been studying the business side of things so know a bit about it all [/quote]

Worst. Advice. Ever.
Message: Posted by: The Duster (May 2, 2017 08:56AM)
Ah, Like that ye olde saying:

Just because a man spells like an 8 year old - that doesn't mean an 8 year old should heed his advice
Message: Posted by: Karl M (May 2, 2017 09:25AM)
[quote]On May 2, 2017, The Duster wrote:
Ah, Like that ye olde saying:

Just because a man spells like an 8 year old - that doesn't mean an 8 year old should heed his advice [/quote]
Yeah good one mate making fun of some one with learning problem I had it all my life so I try to ignore it form people like you :(
Message: Posted by: The Duster (May 2, 2017 09:35AM)
[quote]On May 2, 2017, Karl M wrote:
[quote]On May 2, 2017, The Duster wrote:
Ah, Like that ye olde saying:

Just because a man spells like an 8 year old - that doesn't mean an 8 year old should heed his advice [/quote]
Yeah good one mate making fun of some one with learning problem I had it all my life so I try to ignore it form people like you :( [/quote]

Not exactly

You were telling the act to 'give up' and that you know best as you are into the business side of things

That is both hurtful and a hateful thing to say towards any act – never mind one that young - why should she have this taken away from her because of the papers or people revealing how she does things [did you say the same thing about all the other BGT magic acts in the past?]

I am severely dyslexic myself – which is why I use a spell checker before I post

Ignore all you wish
Message: Posted by: magic in mind (Jun 27, 2017 10:15AM)
Think the only losers are lynx magic.Whoever wrote the article was wrong they said non reflective tv monitor but then added a link to the lynx.Which was from gee magic showing complete workings. Every time britains got talent is on and a magician fools the judges.It's in the paper or all over BGT face book how it was done.Think it was cardtoon and bill in lemon last year
Message: Posted by: glowball (Sep 20, 2017 05:54PM)
This is a talent show.
Problem is the Judges are very ignorant about magician talent.
They are very knowledgeable about most other forms of entertainment, especially singing and comedy.
But are they a good judge whether a magician is skilled/talented? Answer is "no".

They can judge whether it was a good show, but that is whole different issue as to who is "talented".
Just because the judges get fooled, does this mean the person is "talented"?

Traditionally magic competitions reward entertainment value, but they also place a high weight on originality and technical skill (examples are: multiplying balls, split fan card productions, cut and restored rope, etc) that require a lot of manipulation.
The BGT an AGT judges are not qualified to evaluate neither originality nor technical skill of magicians (they constantly get fooled by the most basic card forces and automatic tricks that thousands of magicians are doing every day).
Most traditional magic competitions will have at least one "lay" judge, but the above two categories will not be on their score sheet, the experienced magician judges do that.

Being able to fool and entertain an audience is the most important thing in a magic act, however a competition is supposed to be comparing skill and originality of competing contestants.
There are thousands of entertaining singers and some impersonators that are very good, but does that put them in the same talent level as top singers? Maybe, maybe not.

The beauty about magic is that a person that is not talented period, can entertain an audience with their tricks if presented well. This is both a blessing and a curse.
The blessing is that a 100 thousand people can become a "magician" and have a lot of fun doing it and feel special and entertain a lot of people.

The curse is that when audiences get educated as to how easily most tricks are done
they may take the attitude "Oh, anyone can do that, even an 8 year old, if they buy the trick and practice a little bit".

In the case of the 8 year old who has very little technical skill but a great personality and great presentation skills I suspect there are thousands of 8 year olds
world wide who could do just as well if they had the same resources available.

A major question the BGT/AGT judges need to answer is "how much skill/talent did it take to perform the magic act"? And does that skill/talent warrant displacing other contestants?
But they will never do this evaluation because the bottom line is they don't care, they want a good TV show regardless of how it was accomplished.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Sep 21, 2017 06:45AM)
Excellent post glowball perfectly put . I may add that loads of very untalentented performers also get through purely on the novelty fact whatever genre of performing arts they do . I still think Issy is a very talented little 8 year old and it takes a lot of nerve to do those live shows so congrats and hats off to her Tarik 🙂
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Sep 21, 2017 07:26AM)
If you appear on these shows and perform a shop-bought effect rather than your own original routine, you are doing so knowing that the workings of the effect will immediately be exposed on the internet (and in this case a national newspaper). I see little to admire in that.
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Sep 21, 2017 07:50AM)
£3/£4K
Shop effect it's hardly an everyday magician prop Tarik 🙂
Message: Posted by: Martin Pulman (Sep 21, 2017 08:01AM)
[quote]On Sep 21, 2017, Tarik Flash wrote:
£3/£4K
Shop effect it's hardly an everyday magician prop Tarik 🙂 [/quote]
I feel sorry for the magicians who paid £3k for it, only to have it exposed on prime time TV by an 8 year old.
Message: Posted by: glowball (Sep 21, 2017 04:23PM)
I agree with all the last several posts (they are not contradictory as she used 2 easy to obtain dealer items: the suction box, and the special deck of cards).
My thoughts:

1. She is talented. But currently not as a magician. Talented as a product spokes person, poised, self confident, great personality, could make a great replacement for Oprah. Areas that can make a lot more money than most magicians. Eventually with a lot of practice I suppose she could be the next Juliana Chen (you never know). Any prizes she got lately should probably be awarded to the inventor of the suction box and the inventor of the "chalk" board.

2. Most accomplished magicians established their technical skills ie: their credibility as magicians, before using any great self working tricks, if any. She had no credibility and that is why she got exposed.

3. Several years ago in Vegas I saw Steve Wyrick and Lance Burton and they both did difficult hand skill tricks. Juliana Chen did/does magnificent slight of hand. This establishes their credibility in the audience minds. Sigfried and Roy and Copperfield less so, but their name recognition is so great they didn't need to (in their early years I bet they did). Jonathan Pendragon started as a stunt man and after getting into magic he developed some decent card skills such as a credible z----w shuffle etc.

4. I wish that there was a law (not literally) that you have to pay your dues (performing many years) before doing a big expensive illusion. Crimony, everybody and their brother is doing the sub trunk, just look at youtube. Instant magicians. In the long run the skilled slight of hand magicians may be the only ones to survive this onslaught.

She is innocent in all this. It is other more powerful people who should have known better.

Again, the people who are probably most upset (rightfully) by BGT advancing an eight year old "magician" are the magicians and performers that got bumped by an inferior magic talent.
Message: Posted by: normative (Sep 21, 2017 10:41PM)
Amen to all of the above. I'm not sure to be more infuriated with the paper or the grandad in this story. The paper for pointlessly spoiling a couple good tricks for readers who weren't even *trying* to find the methods, and grandad for turning this charming girl into a prop in an act he clearly bought, assembled, and scripted (and teaching her a pretty awful lesson about what "doing magic" means in the process). I mean, I hope I'm wrong, but it's hard for me to imagine the kid sustaining a whole lot of interest in magic when all the TV stuff is done playing out.
Message: Posted by: Colin (C.J.) (Sep 22, 2017 03:05AM)
There are a lot of bitter and jealous people on this thread. An eight year old girl has achieved more in a year than most of you have in a lifetime of magic, so you choose to knock her. Shame on you all.
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Sep 22, 2017 03:30AM)
I'm confused

So some of you are saying she got through because of the tricks - and the judges don't know how to judge magicians

I think you are suggesting if she did some card manipulation – before doing her actual routine… you think she would then deserve to go through [?]

I think the judges are 100% qualified to judge a magic act, on BGT

As they are judging her not as a magician – but as a contestant on BGT

They thought she was good, as an act and an act that would be likable in their show

Yeah they put both the worse and the best acts through [for TV/entertainment purposes] – but she was definitely put through as one of the ‘best’ acts – the criteria for best being ‘in with a chance to win the show’

It doesn’t matter who she was [old/young/male/female/dad pushed her to do it/doing it for her dying goldfish etc] the tricks were always going to get revealed

Hard to perform tricks – or not

Please just check out any previous BGT contestant that got through to the finals – they all had their tricks revealed on YouTube, by the papers, digital spy, everywhere

They all were

The reason you guys are angry about / towards her – is that you feel like she has got this easy. Because her granddad helped her. That’s not her fault. No need to hate her for that.

I think the thread legitimately could be about how all acts on BGT / AGT get their routines revealed and whether acts should stop going on these shows – as it seems counterproductive to every working magician/inventor of effects for them to do so.

Maybe The Magic Circle/etc should issue an edict that anyone who goes on the shows gets a life ban

Ok won’t happen

But that’s a much better thread then this one about how evil this girl is for not being able to Faro
Message: Posted by: glowball (Sep 25, 2017 06:56PM)
"Hateful" and "Evil"? Your words, not ours.
We have said "Charming", "poised, self confident, great personality".
On the flip side we have said she is not a tallented magician, but could be become one.
Our disappointment is with the adults who have exploited her.
If its not a "talent" contest then maybe they should remove the word "Talent" and change the name to "Britain's Got Show"
and call it BGS or make it even shorter by removing the "G".
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Sep 25, 2017 07:42PM)
You miss the point

It is a talent contest

It is NOT a magic contest

Being a young act always gets you votes [if you are good/capture the imagination] - used to be called the 'granny vote'

She entered a talent contest

It's not a who is technically the best magician show

She did an act and the audience, in the studio and at home loved it

Doesn't matter if you think it was bad, you are allowed to think that, it doesn't change that she did well and was popular
Message: Posted by: natmagic (Sep 25, 2017 08:52PM)
Mr Anonomous was attacking Mr Stevens on some personal vendetta and is too stupid to care about an 8yr old childs feelings and the effect it may have on her off screen. Nice guy!
She did great and for a child so young she has a natural performing talent and so what if she is fortunate to have a mentor in her grandfather!
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Sep 26, 2017 10:30AM)
Let's face it the name of the game is entertainment and she entertained the audience on set and at home and the effects in themselves are irrelevant . Magic is all about deception and under live conditions some great magicians would use a I ne way force deck rather than take a chance . I would be surprised if 1 in 100 eight year olds could perform the same effects with the charm and entertainment value as Issy did so yes she has enormous talent for her age imo . No matter how hard card manipulations maybe everyone gets bored rigid watching a million cards keep appearing and being dropped into a hat . It's nice to see up to date magic regards Tarik 🙂
Message: Posted by: russ stevens (Sep 28, 2017 06:57AM)
Hello Everyone,

I'm not able to visit here as often as I used to, but was pointed to this thread.

I thought it would be of interest for people know that we managed to stop the same person/people from actually exposing what Issy was about to do on the semi-final and finals, before she had even performed. Aside from obviously killing her chances, this obviously meant that it was either someone very close to me, as they gave detailed information to the press on exact names of illusions and effects, or someone that was being fed information. Either way it made no difference and Issy was a huge success. She's just been signed to the same agent as Daniel Radcliffe and is about to perform on a major US TV show next month as her launch on the US begins...

Thanks everyone for the kind words. It's been an amazing journey so far and Issy is loving every moment. It was her dream to just audition for BGT and so everything else that has happened is an incredible bonus!

Best,
Russ
Message: Posted by: Colin (C.J.) (Sep 28, 2017 07:28AM)
Any idea who the person was Russ? I'm sure the magic community would like to let them know how we feel via polite emails.
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Sep 28, 2017 07:38AM)
[quote]On Sep 28, 2017, Colin (C.J.) wrote:
Any idea who the person was Russ? I'm sure the magic community would like to let them know how we feel via polite emails. [/quote]

Except for half the posters on this thread who seem to 'hate' Issy

I have to say very classy post from Russ

All the best to both of you
Message: Posted by: Gaz Lawrence (Sep 28, 2017 12:38PM)
Issy was great on the show , super composed and cool . Russ quite rightfully should be very very proud of his Grandaughter regards Tarik 🙂