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Topic: Blow Vanish Coin by Zee
Message: Posted by: StarManager (Jun 10, 2017 06:09PM)
This is a 10 minute video that is PERFECTLY done. No extraneous info and solid training on a reasonably doable sleight which has value as both an instant vanish and a part of a retention vanish. I have never seen this exact method and it is WELL WORTH learning. I'm finding myself grateful to a 19 year old wiz kid for turning me on to - and teaching me - a fantastic utility tool. I will buy anything Zee produces now after seeing this. WELL WORTH the Cost!. https://www.sansminds.com/product/blow-vanish-zee/#comment-10155
Message: Posted by: PendletonThe3rd (Jun 10, 2017 06:44PM)
Sure looks an awful lot like Eric Chiens COIN...with a nowhere palm
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S21249
Message: Posted by: StarManager (Jun 10, 2017 06:55PM)
[quote]On Jun 10, 2017, PendletonThe3rd wrote:
Sure looks an awful lot like Eric Chiens COIN...with a nowhere palm
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S21249 [/quote]

I guess all retentions look a bit similar. There is a lack of movement in the Zee version that I like. What he teaches is also a bit different in mechanics and for coin worker purposes it is totally different and quite useful.
Message: Posted by: Montana76 (Jun 10, 2017 06:59PM)
I wonder what they mean by saying "TV rights reserved". How well would this hold up in international court?
Message: Posted by: StarManager (Jun 10, 2017 07:47PM)
Sans Minds does this on everything. Will Tsai and others perform and they want to keep the rights as their tricks. That said, you'd likely have to sign a full waiver with "valuable consideration" in the US to enforce this. Just putting it on a screen is iffy. That and to enforce this they need to sue. At the moment they cannot deliver vape watch for months on end and this kind of suit is expensive, especially from Canada to another country.
Message: Posted by: MorrisCH (Jun 10, 2017 10:47PM)
Well, About the fingers movement part, if you been following Eric's Instagram , there is a video on which Eric perform the exact same move with no cover and no finer movement, and the video was posted 9 months ago...

https://instagram.com/p/BKf5iN3gJPk/
Message: Posted by: Gregor Mann (Jun 11, 2017 01:16PM)
[quote]On Jun 10, 2017, StarManager wrote:
I will buy anything Zee produces now after seeing this. WELL WORTH the Cost!. https://www.sansminds.com/product/blow-vanish-zee/#comment-10155 [/quote]

He has released a book previously called Itoshito. Here is a routine from the book
https://www.instagram.com/p/BVNXjy4ADpz/
Message: Posted by: MikeLiu (Jun 11, 2017 03:45PM)
I like Eric's :heavymetal:
Message: Posted by: Zee (Jun 19, 2017 09:08AM)
[quote]On Jun 10, 2017, PendletonThe3rd wrote:
Sure looks an awful lot like Eric Chiens COIN...with a nowhere palm
http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S21249 [/quote]

Both Eric and my vanishes are based on Takuma Ukawa's Retention of Vision yet both are independent creations. We both found out about Takuma Ukawa after doing this move for a while.
I have Takuma Ukawa's permission to release my take on the sleight and also talked to Eric about it and got his blessings too. Eric and I have known each other for a while and talked about the sleight too, I can safely say that our retention vanish is almost same since it is basically same genre of sleight yet still shares a few differences regarding details and finger positions.

I have more retention related applications coming out soon, sooo ehhhh yea. Haha

Zee
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Jun 19, 2017 09:50AM)
I just don't get 15 bucks for a single move that is merely variation of yet another move... which is a variation of another. The real vanish is the money from your pocket, and the magic of marketing
Message: Posted by: StarManager (Jun 19, 2017 12:03PM)
[quote]On Jun 19, 2017, Joshua Barrett wrote:
I just don't get 15 bucks for a single move that is merely variation of yet another move... which is a variation of another. The real vanish is the money from your pocket, and the magic of marketing [/quote]

I understand you position but I also believe that what Zee does and how he teaches it is excellent and a variation. I think magic is under priced in general. Fifteen bucks to learn a sleight for life that you will use over and over again is a bargain. Paying that three times for all three versions and working out the best nuances for your hands and style is still a bargain. I stand by paying these creators and modifiers for their work. Encourage more. Heck I paid like a quarter million to go to college and learned more here that was useful than in university. I'm all for supporting Zee here and in future work for us!
Message: Posted by: Bande (Jun 19, 2017 06:54PM)
How hard is this to master? Not a great coin worker, but willing to put some time in.
Message: Posted by: StarManager (Jun 19, 2017 08:50PM)
[quote]On Jun 19, 2017, Bande wrote:
How hard is this to master? Not a great coin worker, but willing to put some time in. [/quote]
If you are not a strong worker, and you REALLY follow ZEES instruction, the average guy probably can get the mechanics in an hour. You have to go REAL SLOW for every muscle move and teach your hands how to move. Same with any coin work for me. The you build up smooth and very slow and when you have that at like 1/20th the real speed, you go at 1/10th real speed for like an hour - maybe 3 sessions of 10 minutes a day for two days. Then you do about 1/5 speed smooth the same way, then 1/2 speed the same then full speed for a couple of hours and you will know it and be able to perform it. It is about absolute muscle memory. There is no shortcut. Same rules for guitar, piano, drums, violin . . . Play it slow and correctly and then keep adding speed. Hope this helps.
Message: Posted by: sadhu (Jun 19, 2017 08:58PM)
I totally agreed with StarManager. Zee's video has helped me in resolving the slight finger movements in doing the retention vanish. Well worth the money and saved me a lot of practice time.
Message: Posted by: mh1001 (Jun 20, 2017 02:44AM)
[quote]On Jun 19, 2017, sadhu wrote:
I totally agreed with StarManager. Zee's video has helped me in resolving the slight finger movements in doing the retention vanish. Well worth the money and saved me a lot of practice time. [/quote]
In my opinion, the relevant question should be : how easier it is to master the move, compared to the instruction in Eric Chien's Coin ? I own Coin, and although I made some very good progress, it's obviously not as good as Eric. It took me a while to get used to it.

I'm not sure I can agree with StarManager when he says 1 hour of practice and you get the mechanics. It took me many, many hours, and days of practice. It was hard not to move the index and middle fingers. Or maybe I'm really not good at sleight of hand. To be honest, I'm not that good with advanced sleight of hand coins, I admit, although I feel my misdirection and smoothness of action largely compensate for that. Anyway, I feel this move (Eric or Zee's) should be categorized as advanced.
Message: Posted by: StarManager (Jun 20, 2017 03:00AM)
[quote]On Jun 19, 2017, mh1001 wrote:
[quote]On Jun 19, 2017, sadhu wrote:

I'm not sure I can agree with StarManager when he says 1 hour of practice and you get the mechanics.

With respect I said you get the mechanics in an hour - the understanding of what you must actually learn. I then went on to chart a course that would take about 5 weeks working 3 - ten minute sessions a day. Before you ever start to practice you need to understand the mechanics. Once you do - you can work at about 1/20th sped or even slower if you need to - to get the muscle memory started. Then build up. A good coin guy who has trained all kinds of coin work for years might still take the hour to understand the minute movements, and hone start at about 1/10 or 1/5 the real speed. That's the difference between the workers and the non- workers. Non workers just need to start slower and build up a slight longer. Workers already have some advanced dexterity and know how to make their brain move their fingers. But a new sleight takes time for all of us.
Message: Posted by: sadhu (Jun 20, 2017 05:06AM)
I spent nine months practicing Eric's method trying hard not to move the index and middle fingers with no success. After watching Zee's video, He pointed out how the index and middle fingers movements can be avoided and it's an eye opener. One week into using Zee's method, 90% of the finger movements were eliminated and therefore I will have to agree with StarManager that Zee's video is well worth the money. I've learned a lot from this young fellow.
Message: Posted by: sadhu (Jun 20, 2017 05:10AM)
I just ordered Zee's book Itoshito and anxiously waiting for it. He is really a breath of fresh air in the field of coin magic.
Message: Posted by: StarManager (Jun 20, 2017 12:16PM)
[quote]On Jun 20, 2017, sadhu wrote:
I just ordered Zee's book Itoshito and anxiously waiting for it. He is really a breath of fresh air in the field of coin magic. [/quote]

Where did you order the book from please?
Message: Posted by: tonsofquestions (Jun 20, 2017 02:08PM)
Seconded on the book question. What language is it in?
I wonder if I've never seen it for a similar reason to the book by Tomoya Horiki (of Sprout Ideas) - it wasn't translated to English. :sigh:
Message: Posted by: videoman (Jun 20, 2017 07:30PM)
Re: the price of this download, I agree with StarManager. For the potential of a lifetime of use then the cost is not expensive, especially considering that it is very well done.

You have to consider other factors too. The magic market is small to begin with and this is only going to appeal to a tiny subset of that. Then you have production costs, marketing costs, and the various mark-ups by wholesalers, dealers, etc. I am quite certain that Zee will not make a fortune off this.
If I had developed it I doubt I would want it to sell for anything less than the current price.
Message: Posted by: sadhu (Jun 20, 2017 08:49PM)
I contacted Zee a few days ago and he still have a few copies of the book availble for sale. I'm quite sure the book is in english and you can get the details from his website Zeejyan.com. There
is a Korean version currently marketed on a Korean website. Hope that helps.
Message: Posted by: J-Mac (Jun 21, 2017 11:35PM)
I purchased this late last night and watched the video earlier today. Very nicely done! Zee's explanation is short, sweet, and very complete. No nonsense, no "sales" talk; he just goes right into the moves required. Video quality is fine, including over-the-shoulder views when needed. I do like Zee's teaching skills and thinking. I will definitely be looking for more from him!

Thanks!

Jim
Message: Posted by: Melkon (Jun 29, 2017 09:20AM)
I agree that this product merits a purchase, even if in possesion of Eric Chiens Coin.

However, I feel somewhat conflicted about following products that really seems like the same product in different wrappings from same creator.


https://www.sansminds.com/product/project-z/


https://www.sansminds.com/product/coin-to-pen/

They do state that they will add coin to pen as bonus if blow vanish is purchased. I got two downloads for blowvanish instead, and support desk have not been able to reply to my message pointing out this mistake four days ago.

All in all I am left with an akward feeling after buying this product, even though the quality can not be disputed.
Message: Posted by: tonsofquestions (Jul 3, 2017 11:56PM)
I agree with Melkon here. Coin-To-Pen is clearly included in Project-Z. How does the project differ from the Blow Vanish download? Is it just an extension, or something completely different? I feel like if you bought the first one, you should be entitled to the full version if it's just a subset.

Typical Sansminds.