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Topic: The Green Neck System
Message: Posted by: Titanas (Jul 17, 2017 02:10PM)
Hey guys,
Check out the latest offer from Marchand De Trucs and Mindbox, The Green Neck System.
It's a book on mentalism effects and it looks like a great collection of both impromptu and prop based mentalism.

More info:
https://www.murphysmagic.com/product.aspx?id=59983

Best regards,
Titanas
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Jul 17, 2017 02:41PM)
Looks intriguing.. any more information on this?

Sleepy
Message: Posted by: Alex DLF (Jul 17, 2017 03:15PM)
This is really really good !

The Green Neck System Ė Gabriel Werlen

Product description : This is a new book, based on a quite old principle which is mainly used in the mentalism field. The idea is pretty simple, and can be used in a lot of ways, it will allow you to know which object among 3 the spectator has chosen, without him even saying it. But this is much more than that and Gabriel teaches a lot of routines and variation based on the Mathematical Three Card Montee by Bob Hummer.

Price and where to buy it : This is sold at around $60 (55Ä) and you can find it in the ďMarchand de trucĒ shop in France. Maybe this will be sold through Murphy's later (if itís translated from French into English).

What you get : You get a very nice printed book, I love the cover, it is all green and very appealing. The book quality is outstanding, as usual with Marchand de Trucs release. Inside, you will find a few things, the first being the basic principle applied with common object. Then Gabriel explains a little bit more about what can be done with it, especially on stage or with more than 3 objects. Each routine is greatly detailed and nicely edited, with some pictures in order for us to understand the system and how things work. Overall, for the price, you canít be disappointed, the book is great and the content is amazing, you canít ask for more !

Teaser : Since itís a book, there is no real teaser or trailer for it.

The pros and the cons : Here is the core of my review, let's begin with the cons, as I will usually be doing, I prefer to keep the good things for the end.

THE CONS :
Ė All the routines are based on the same principle so I donít recommend you to do more than one of them to the same audience, they will see that the procedure is the same.

THE PROS :
Ė For me, this is a new application of an old principle, Gabriel didnít just reused the Mathematical three card monte but he brought a whole new content.
Ė There are close up and stage routines, so this is a very versatile tool.
Ė You donít need anything to carry, you can just walk to a table and do this with a fork, a knife and a spoon ! So I think this is worth ďlearningĒ.
Ė There isnít really something to learn, you just have to remember the procedure which is fairly simple.
Ė Gabriel added subtleties to the procedure so that people donít feel like itís a trick where the magician is giving all the information : ďput the item A hereĒ etc.. I really feel people think they have the choice of doing all the work.
Ė The book is really well written, there are even parts which are for you to rehearse so you feel confident enough when you will be doing this in front of people.
Ė Since itís very easy to do, you can completely focus on your presentation and because this is mind reading, presentation is everything.

Overall rating : I think this is worth learning for every magician, you may not use it daily, youíll still find a use for it, on stage or for an impromptu mind reading routine, 4/4 hearts.

As for the difficulty level, itís very easy to remember and very easy to do (but you need a good presentation), 2/5 stars.

Similar products : Mathematical three card monte by Bob Hummer is where all this come from, there is also a booklet called ďInv3rsionĒ by Pierre Boc which is on the same topic and worth reading in my opinion.
Message: Posted by: Tempesta (Jul 21, 2017 11:34AM)
Very interested in this! Any more reviews out there?

I would be more than happy to review this--cough cough-- :D

||sean ||
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Jul 21, 2017 01:08PM)
Thanks Alex for your excellent review. I was wondering about this publication myself and your thoughts have been very helpful.

Neil
Message: Posted by: DrewBstoss (Jul 24, 2017 10:22AM)
I absolutely LOVE principles like this that can be leveraged in so many diverse directions - I'm eager to see the advances made by Gabriel on Hummer's classic ruse.

Can anyone speak to the differences between this and Patrick Redford's work on the principle (specifically in reference to the three object mixing process Patrick shared in "Heptagon")? It would seem that Patrick's take on it focused on a controlled mix while Gabriel's uses the same procedure to identify a thought-of object/position... Admittedly, I've not read "The Green Neck System" but at first glance they appear similar.

And in full sake of disclosure, I'd never before considered using Patrick's/Hummer's three object switch to identify a thought of item but understand how it is possible having thought on it for a moment - and it is quite simple, clever, and practical (with only two simple rules to remember).

If it seems as though I'm fishing that is NOT my intention - I'm just trying to understand what new this might add to my toolbox of techniques.

Best,

Drew
Message: Posted by: doriancaudal (Jul 24, 2017 02:26PM)
This book is wonderful, go for it, you won't be disappointed.
Message: Posted by: DrewBstoss (Jul 24, 2017 03:10PM)
Does anyone by chance have a way to contact Gabriel Werlen directly? I'd love to connect off-line with him (feel free to PM me).

Best,

Drew
Message: Posted by: bofx (Jul 31, 2017 06:56AM)
The Green Neck is a diabolical process that goes much further than the Hummer principle on which it was initially based.
Gabriel has particularly removed the mathematical aspect to make it really bluffing.
This is not for nothing if Jheff considers The Green Neck as "one of the best releases this year, perhaps the best" : http://marketplaceofthemind.com/products/greeneck/
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Jul 31, 2017 07:40PM)
I am intrigued. At this price I would certainly hope that it is some kind of streamlined improvement.
Message: Posted by: gab (Aug 2, 2017 02:55PM)
Hi, I'm the author of the Green Neck System!

Thank you for the nice reviews, especially Jheff who made my day! ;)

I discovered the Green Neck System about 10 years ago, playing with Bob Hummer's principle.
This well known principle is indeed the starting point of my discovery but the Green Neck System is a totally new principle.
It's not just an improvement!

It's so simple I couldn't believe it hasn't been discovered earlier. I made a lot of research: Nothing was approaching the GNS.
The more I was working on the system, the more I was discovering it's potential. The 13 routines are not 13 presentations using the same system. Each routine explores a new development of the system.

I'm very excited to share my work with you!
Message: Posted by: Poof-Daddy (Aug 10, 2017 10:08PM)
A quick "Heads Up" on my favorite site for finding hidden gems on sale. This one just popped up http://themagicwarehouse.com/BB5933/The-Green-Neck-System-by-Gabriel-Werlen-and-Marchand-de-trucs-and-Mindbox*.html?c=t&p=sale&pn=1&s=d
Message: Posted by: gab (Aug 12, 2017 03:49PM)
To answer all the pm I received asking for the difference between the Green Neck System and Bob Hummer's method :

Over the phone, you ask for any 3 cards to be dealt face down. No one knows the value of the cards.
One card is secretly peaked at.
2 switches are made without your friend saying a word.
There is no doubt the cards are mixed.
You are now in a position to find the thought of card using the presentational angle you want.
Your friend didn't say a word.

This routine is included in the book to show the difference between the 2 methods.
This is the only one using cards!

Hope this help!
Message: Posted by: Pit Boss (Aug 12, 2017 06:59PM)
Received it a few days ago. Fantastic.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Mindbender (Aug 13, 2017 04:41PM)
I know creating a Facebook group is the popular thing to do with products nowadays - but in this case, it would be extremely helpful. Any plans?

BTW: Take the first routine, Setting the Table, but instead of cutlery, use cells phones from three people. Like the original routine, you'll be able to tell which cell phone the participant has mentally selected and which hand it's in. Great impromptu effect.
Message: Posted by: Kuroth (Aug 13, 2017 05:20PM)
Thanks Proof Daddy.. Just ordered it at that great price.. Cant wait..
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Aug 14, 2017 02:35PM)
It is a wonderful book!

Time ago I've played for some time with this principle, using playing cards (3) and a me...zed deck, ParaLabs Picture Deck, 3 business cards with random, unknown first names and some more (German speaking mentalists have seen some applications on my second DVD which came out in 2013...).

But in "The Green Neck" I still found quite a lot of new aspects I wasn't aware of. I find it amazing. Just tried to combine a ma...d deck and this principle which can lead to VERY powerful applications... I really recommend this book. It is a gem. Jan
Message: Posted by: BCE (Aug 19, 2017 07:00AM)
Yes, agreed, this is a great book that I am going to need to re-read and re-read again. However, I am very surprised that nobody has mentioned one glaring non-method/non-exposure aspect of the book:

http://emilypost.com/advice/formal-place-setting/

I have never been to any restaurant where the ****** was above the ******. Is this a European thing?
Message: Posted by: BlackZ (Aug 19, 2017 08:11PM)
No, this is an international thing...
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Aug 20, 2017 02:24PM)
I am glad I followed the favourable reviews and recommendations for the Green Neck System. It is truly excellent.

Neil
Message: Posted by: drolleric (Sep 3, 2017 12:40PM)
The first effect with knife fork and spoon can be done impromptu at a restaurant
Other effects are very creative too...
Absolutely propless magic
But you will have to stay focused to understand and memorize it all !
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Sep 3, 2017 01:18PM)
The book actually helps you learn by providing some very clear and visual examples. I soon got the hang of it, fooling my wife the day after receiving the book - and the cutlery routine also gave rise to some unexpected laughs.
Message: Posted by: BMWGuy (Sep 5, 2017 12:46PM)
Hey guys,

So I picked this up and it took awhile to arrive from France, but now that I have actually read it through and tried some examples, this is good.

This is something that you will always have with you anywhere you go, and will be able to amaze at a moments notice.

When you first open the book, Gabriel has you follow along so you can also experience what the spectator's will experience.

Then he goes over lots and I mean lots of variations and examples, and different ways you can use this.

You can play it out anyway you like, as there is lots of room for presentation here, since once you learn the core method everything else is secondary.

The book is 230 pages, going over different ways as I said above you can use this.

From cutlery, to smash and stab, to which hand, to wine/beer/and whisky, to identifying a chosen drawing.

I know what most of you might say, but this is similar to Bob Hummer's Mathematical 3 card principle....yes and no.

This is an extension of that principle, but sneakier and better, since no questions are asked, and you are turned away the entire time.

You can even do this over the phone if you wish.

You can use playing cards, tarot cards, 3 different colored sponge balls, a key, a pen, and a wallet......you can use 3 different types of fruits or vegetables.....sky is the limit.

What is great about this, is that the method is well hidden and layered, and nobody will suspect a thing....I know I have already done it for a few friends with their objects from their homes.

This is something that you will always have on you, anytime, anywhere, and that is what makes it special. Not many routines you can say that about.....plus its impromptu

If you are looking for something that truly fools everyone, and can be entertaining, and you will divine where a chosen object is, and it is only thought about, then this book should be in your library.

Very happy to have purchased this, and look forward to what variation or extension Gabriel Werlen comes up with next.

All good reviews, that is why I caved and purchased, and I am very delighted.

Thanks Gabriel for a wonderful treatise

Alex Alejandro
Message: Posted by: drolleric (Sep 5, 2017 12:57PM)
In the french edition there is an enigma you have to solve to gain access to a secret webpage with a bonus trick
Is it in the english version too !?
How fast did you solve it ?!!
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Sep 5, 2017 01:05PM)
Does anyone have this and T.I.T.E

I'm thinking of getting one of them

My worry is T.I.T.E seems to not be repeatable

If anyone has both - as to me they seem to be similar in effect [if not in method] - which would you recommend [?]

Or am I being thick - and they are chalk and cheese

Not asking about method

Just interested in pros and cons as a side by side comparrission
Message: Posted by: doriancaudal (Sep 5, 2017 01:12PM)
Just go for this one. Just more powerful !
Message: Posted by: Dreda (Sep 5, 2017 01:33PM)
Green Neck system without hesitation (limited to 3 items).


T.I.T.E uses only business cards and personnaly I was expecting something else.
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Sep 5, 2017 01:34PM)
Well.......

I hate eBooks and so much more love real books

i take it you have both?
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Sep 5, 2017 01:35PM)
Thank you both of you...
Message: Posted by: videoman (Sep 5, 2017 03:01PM)
I have both but only just got them so really haven't had a chance to thoroughly study them both.
So far I would say I prefer TITE, but that could change after performing with them. It is a close call right now as both have their merits.

The repeatability is not a significant factor for me. But worth mentioning that TITE could be repeated at a later time, just not immediately. Not sure of the repeatability of Green Neck off the top of my head. Not sure where this desire to repeat something comes from anyway. I seem to recall Duster mentioning using TITE for a reverse monte and I'm pretty certain that you can't do that with TITE and certainly not it's intended use and personally I feel like it would be a waste of the concept anyway. I'm sure there are better ways to achieve that so save TITE for something that really touches and affects people.

Green Neck is an actual physical book, and very nicely produced if that is a factor for anyone.
They are both very good and it's really subjective to pick a favorite in this case so at some time you may just have to get both.
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Sep 5, 2017 04:03PM)
I have and very much like both. They are very different effects and for different situations.
I am glad to have both in my repertoire.

Neil
Message: Posted by: The Duster (Sep 5, 2017 04:34PM)
I suppose asking on this thread - I was more likly to get pro GNS responses

I'm pretty sure I will end up getting both - I just dislike eBooks so from the start I was leaning towards getting this first

Thanks
Message: Posted by: gab (Sep 6, 2017 04:13PM)
The Facebook group is online!

https://m.facebook.com/groups/1931859317031831
Message: Posted by: Tempesta (Sep 7, 2017 12:23AM)
This is secretly one of my favorite things ever...ever.

But that's a secret.
Message: Posted by: drolleric (Sep 7, 2017 11:16AM)
Just something the spectator has to concentrate a little bit on, and in a silent environment..
Not suited for a gig with a lot of noise..
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Sep 7, 2017 12:00PM)
I have done this in a restaurant and it generated a lot of fun and interest. One of the routines is ideal for such a setting.
Message: Posted by: gab (Sep 7, 2017 01:33PM)
[quote]On Sep 7, 2017, Tempesta wrote:
This is secretly one of my favorite things ever...ever.

But that's a secret. [/quote]

OMG!!! Thanks!
Message: Posted by: drolleric (Sep 7, 2017 03:00PM)
I see Neil has joined the Fb group
I am contacting them too for new tips on the method !
Message: Posted by: gab (Sep 7, 2017 04:45PM)
[quote]On Sep 7, 2017, drolleric wrote:
Just something the spectator has to concentrate a little bit on, and in a silent environment..
Not suited for a gig with a lot of noise.. [/quote]

For the close-up versions, you just need a place where the participant will hear you back turned away!
Message: Posted by: gab (Oct 3, 2017 04:38PM)
You can still join the Facebook group:
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1931859317031831

Nice contributions there!

I was at the French Magic Convention last weekend. Even magicians were scratching their head. I performed the first effect with cutlery up to 10 times to top magicians. They were becoming crazy!
Message: Posted by: Kuroth (Oct 4, 2017 09:02AM)
I tried and he ask for a Pic of me and the book and I replied back how do I send him that Pic and he never replied back. :(
Message: Posted by: gab (Oct 4, 2017 02:15PM)
Sorry for That.
I answered all questions through messanger.
If you didn't receive the message subscribe again. I changed the question.
Message: Posted by: gab (Oct 4, 2017 03:50PM)
Solved ;)

If you can't communicate through Messenger send me a pm.
Message: Posted by: John Nesbit (Nov 3, 2017 01:14AM)
This is so rich with possibilities and multi dimensional presentation concepts. The layerings and intermingling of other principles in addition to the original are still awaiting major breakthroughs. This can be a potential lifetime endeavor of future volumes and new schools of thought. Leo Boudreau, take notice here.
Message: Posted by: gab (Nov 3, 2017 12:00PM)
Thank you!
It means a lot!

-------

Join Facebook group:
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1931859317031831
Message: Posted by: gab (Jan 23, 2018 04:21PM)
:wavey:
The green neck system has been nominated best product of 2017 by Jheff!!!
óóó
let's get right into the product which I've crowned the best recommended product of 2017...

GREEN NECK SYSTEM - Gabriel Werlen
http://marketplaceofthemind.com/products/ greeneck/
I am just as excited about this now as I was when it came out this past summer. It has everything that a mentalist could want. It's an easy streamlined version of the Hummer principle (basically, two steps or rules) that can be applied to a whole variety of effects. Every level of performer can do this. And this can be applied to effects to be used in any type of venue. It's easy to learn, is very deceptive, requires no special props, can definitely be done impromptu, and can be done over the phone or Internet.

I'm not sure why this hasn't been talked about more than it has. This technique deserves to be a classic and, in my mind, already is.
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Jan 23, 2018 04:35PM)
Very well deserved too.

Brilliantly produced and written together with it being an elegant principle and one capable of tailoring in many ways.

Neil
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Jan 23, 2018 11:28PM)
Huh, there is VERY much in common with prior published work from Patrick Redford. He also performed this at MindVention if I recall correctly.
Message: Posted by: DrewBstoss (Jan 23, 2018 11:41PM)
Hi Tom - on page one of this thread I expressed the same concern but then I looked into it and can happily report that Gabrielís work IS different from Patrickís. Both systems might be considered ďcousinsĒ under a shared parentage of Hummerís core concept but each approach is different enough to warrant publishing (IMHO).

Iím a HUGE fan of Patrickís take on the concept - and now Iím an equal fan of Gabrielís :)

Best,

Drew
Message: Posted by: gab (Jan 23, 2018 11:55PM)
Hi Tom,

The green neck indeed builds on Bob Hummerís work.
But as I know has nothing to do with Patrick Redfordís published work.
Can you give me some references?

Thanks
Message: Posted by: Tom Cutts (Jan 24, 2018 12:44AM)
[quote]On Jan 23, 2018, gab wrote:
Hi Tom,

The green neck indeed builds on Bob Hummerís work.y
But as I know has nothing to do with Patrick Redfordís published work.
Can you give me some references?

Thanks [/quote]Im sure you didn't know, or you would have gotten in touch with him. My suggestion would be for you to go directly to Patrick and discuss it with him. That will omit interpretations and opinions of people not involved.
Message: Posted by: Colin (C.J.) (Jan 24, 2018 06:52AM)
They are completely different works that build from the same Hummer principle. I honestly don't think there's a need to stir the pot here.
Message: Posted by: Patrick Redford (Jan 24, 2018 04:25PM)
Hey Everyone.

I was just notified about this thread. I only recently became aware of the Green Neck System book. it seems that the principles are much the same. It is my understanding that this system allows for the divination of the location of one object in a row of three but does not allow the performer to know the location of either of the other two. The Triune Force (as I call it) does. The procedure of the Green Neck System and the Triune Force, however, are virtually identical.

It was indeed at a Mindvention that I performed my version of this principle. It was first published in a small booklet/lecture note booklet called "Turn" in 2008. I had lectured the previous year and had introduced the Tetrad Switch and Triad Switch (a four object switch and a three object switch (but at the time the principle didn't have a name but appeared first in the notes called "Transpose" in 2007). The following year I had discovered and put in print something I ended up calling the "Triad Force". While parts of the principle made it into the Shape Series (that comic book mentalism series all with shape titles) the concept of forcing the final resting position of a thought of object (and knowing where the other two objects are) is something that remains exclusive to the Turn notes. I have been known to share it in with workshops groups as well. I have always had plans to include it in the upcoming Geometric book that combines all of the comics (plus Two more as well as further variations and routine improvements). It didn't make the initial cut simply because I found that the material I included in the the final projects was stronger. Consequently nearly all of the shape series books began as lecture notes. The piece called "Ring, Watch, Wallet" was also published along side Triune Force but didn't appear again until the further refined version in Hexagon in 2016.

There is absolute value in an entire book of routines exploring these sorts of principles and while I'm not mentioned or credited in the Green Neck System, it seems folks are enjoying it. That can't be a bad thing. All of these principles owe a great deal to the Hummer principle. As that was my starting point as appears to also have been Mr. Werlen's. I have published many routines using these principles over the years and also kept many to myself applying the principles to over the phone demonstrations, chair tests, "smash and stab" routines, impromptu situational predictions, lie detection plots and more. I'm sure there's still much to be discovered and I look forward to any other work that comes out on the topic.

I hope that clears up the above.
Message: Posted by: DrewBstoss (Jan 24, 2018 05:17PM)
Thanks providing that insight Patrick! Youíre a consummate professional and a class act!

I was only aware of your published material and ignorantly assumed that GNS was different enough from your work because I was unfamiliar with the ďTurnĒ manuscript.

Best,

Drew
Message: Posted by: gab (Jan 27, 2018 04:21AM)
Thank you Mr Redford for your nice and exhaustive answer!

I was not aware of your previous work "Turn" but own (and love) a few of your shape series including Heptagon.
The green neck system does not use the principle described in Heptagon.
In one effect I do use a similar process to force the position of all 3 objets before using the Green neck system.
You are credited in the book as the beginning of this process is similar to the switch process described in Heptagon.

The Green Neck system does allow to know the position of the chosen object but as well the position of the other objets.
It may well be possible that Turn our methods are the similar!
I will happily send you some elements of the book to know for sure!
Can you send me your email? We can as well organise a skype to share our ideas!
Let me know,
Thank you
Message: Posted by: siepielski (Jan 27, 2018 07:27AM)
A book well worth having. Intelligently written and full of performance scenarios.
Message: Posted by: Colin (C.J.) (Jan 27, 2018 07:53AM)
No drama there then (even though others probably hoped there would be). Two works, different from each other, deserving a separate release. Everyone can back down now please.
Message: Posted by: Bob_Hummer (Jan 27, 2018 09:11AM)
Glad to see my principle still gets so much attention!
Message: Posted by: gab (Jan 27, 2018 09:50AM)
No drama here! ;)
Iím very cautious about references. I made a lot of researches before publishing the green neck.

Iím sincerely interested in knowing if the same principle has been discovered simultaneously!

Iím trying to get in touch with Patrick Redford.

Tom Kutts, did you actually read my book, or heard about it?

Bob, thanks. I owe you a pint! ;)
Message: Posted by: Colin (C.J.) (Jan 27, 2018 10:35AM)
You gave us a great gift with The Green Neck System gab.

In fact, I'm going to call it the gift of the gab.
Message: Posted by: gab (Jan 27, 2018 11:12AM)
Thanks! ;)
Message: Posted by: tincture (Jan 30, 2018 02:21PM)
[quote]On Jan 27, 2018, Colin (C.J.) wrote:
No drama there then (even though others probably hoped there would be). Two works, different from each other, deserving a separate release. Everyone can back down now please. [/quote]

I'm not sure how you got that they're different from the above post of Mr. Redford's that said they are "virtually identical" but we read what we wish to read, I suppose.
Message: Posted by: Mark_Chandaue (Jan 30, 2018 02:23PM)
Two things that you can tell from this thread.

1. The Green Neck System is a great book
2. Patrick Redford is a class act

Mark
Message: Posted by: gab (Jan 30, 2018 03:06PM)
Patrick Redford nicely offered to send me the pages with his work on the subject.

Iím deeply greatfull.
Thank you Mr Redford!

Iíll review it as soon as received.
Message: Posted by: gab (Feb 14, 2018 05:19PM)
Patrick sent me a scan of the first pages of "Turn".
The basic idea is indeed the same.
Being a big fan of his work I'm very proud that I followed the same path of thinking!
Thank you Mr Redford !
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Jun 12, 2019 01:17AM)
Sounds like ROSHAMBO ... Perhaps I'll read it... :dancing:
Message: Posted by: gab (Jun 12, 2019 01:42AM)
If you want Skype me to be green necked! ;)
Message: Posted by: Axel (Jun 12, 2019 03:39AM)
[quote]On Jun 12, 2019, gab wrote:
If you want Skype me to be green necked! ;) [/quote]

:rotf:
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Jun 13, 2019 12:51AM)
[quote]On Jun 12, 2019, gab wrote:
If you want Skype me to be green necked! ;) [/quote]
Is there a video of you performing it somewhere?
Message: Posted by: gab (Jun 13, 2019 02:03AM)
Have you received my messenger message?
(I donít think there is a video out there. )
Message: Posted by: Slim King (Jun 13, 2019 10:43AM)
Is it on a podcast or a radio show?