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Topic: Tango dollar-sized copper/silver coin questions
Message: Posted by: karnak (Jul 20, 2017 04:56PM)
Thinking of moving from solely half-dollar-sized coin magic up to dollar-sized (just using Eisenhower dollars and matching gaffs, solely due to budgetary constraints), so have some questions.

I have acquired some Eisenhower dollars, and a Johnson expanded shell that fits them all well. Now I need a copper/silver coin, and some matching regular copper coins.

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of options here, in the (relatively) inexpensive realm of clad coins. Tango offers a reasonably priced Eisenhower c/s coin, for instance. My impression from online research is that theirs is commonly paired with a copper version of a Walking Liberty dollar (a so-called "copper round"). But after reading a recent review on Penguin Magic (May 2017), it appears that some customers are instead receiving c/s coins where the copper side is instead a Saint Gaudens coin. Fair enough, I suppose, if you know this going in (and haven't invested ahead of time in a stack of WL copper rounds, in anticipation of what you expect you'll be getting). So there's an uncomfortable bit of ambiguity there. If I order a Tango c/s coin, I guess I should wait to see what I end up with, before then investing in some matching copper coins.

Beyond that, can anyone confirm whether the Tango c/s coins (whether WL or SG) fit okay within a Johnson Eisenhower expanded shell?

Likewise, can anyone confirm that regular WL copper rounds, and/or regular St Gaudens copper coins, also fit inside a Johnson expanded Eisenhower dollar shell?

Just trying to make sure that all these items line up and fit together as desired, before pulling the trigger.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Jul 20, 2017 11:14PM)
A couple possibilities off the top of my head:

http://www.roykueppers.com/coppersilver.html
He sells an Ike C/S for $60.

Joe Mogar's website may have something to help you.
http://www.joemogar.com
Probably a good idea to get in touch with hm directly as well as not everything he has or can get is listed on his site.

Contact Johnson and inquire about an Ike C/S or Sun/Moon. Johnson will do custom work at a reasonable price.

Keep in mind though that in a year or two (or maybe less) you will be selling all of the Ike gaffs you have acquired in order to switch to Morgan's. Sure, you'll successfully keep the desire at bay for a while but it will eventually win you over. :)
Message: Posted by: tonsofquestions (Jul 21, 2017 12:01AM)
Roy's is a real rupee coin, but I imagine they're pretty hard to find separately, so might be tricky to get extras for. I'm not sure of it's size. '

The WL-style copper rounds, if memory serves are slightly larger than a dollar coin. I believe most have a standard sized (or, rather weight), so they're like these: http://www.apmex.com/product/116161/1-oz-copper-round-random-design and ~39mm (Ike's are 38.1). You won't notice the size difference easily by sight, especially when they're moving, but it means the Ike shell almost certainly won't fit. I'm not sure if the CS coin would, though.

Taking a look online, the real St Gaudens coin is ~34.4 mm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Gaudens_double_eagle), but it's also a gold coin, which I'm 99% sure isn't being used in Tango's CS coin. Rather, I strongly suspect it's a similar copper round, just with a different face design. Which means they're easy to get, but again won't fit your shell. This is also suggested by these coins: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/5584 You could ask/try to specify before ordering.

Other interesting tidbits:
Tango makes the C/S coins in both heads/heads and tails/tails. Cool! I wish they gave you that choice for the half-dollar sized coins.
They make an expanded St Gaudens (http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S18573, also available as magnetic) and a super-expanded (http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S19169) but I don't know if these fit the real coin (doubtful) or a copper round. Neither seems to come with a matching regular coin, so caveat emptor. I'd ask Penguin (or your preferred dealer) to clarify, and possibly take a coin to test the sizes.
They also make a TUC in the St Gauden (http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S18582) which I *think* is just a copper TUC, but they might make a C/S TUC like it, which would be pretty cool.

My guess is that they used to make them with the WL rounds, and decided to redo them with the St Gauden rounds (better supply, a more different coin), and so that's what they have now. That said, I've not actually purchased (or seen) any of these coins, so I have no hard evidence. I suspect a CS coin would be reduced slightly, and fit inside your shell, but again, I don't have anything to back it up. You could try asking before you buy, but might not get an answer for certain.

If you really want to get a start with matching coins, I think your best bet would actually be the Tango Hopping Half set. http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/4153 You'd get your CS coin, a shell of each type, and an extra, smaller Copper coin. (Maybe a regular copper coin, but I'm again, not certain.) No guarantees that both coins will fit inside both shells (in fact, I strongly suspect not, given the half-dollar-sized hopping-half set I have), but it'll be closer. From there, you can get extra matching rounds, possibly an normal expanded copper shell, and have most of what you're used to, in dollar size. (Since half dollars and English pennies are similarly a bit off in size).

If you absolutely have to have all the coins be the same size to swap shells, I think your best bet would be to go custom, but that means you're going to be paying more for the extra work and time ... for clad coins, and on a budget. But it's still doable.

*phew* That ended up being longer than I intended, but hopefully it's of help. I was interested in this as well a while back, but ended up deciding against it because of the limited selection, the uncertainty, and deciding I preferred half-dollar sized coins in the end.

If you end up buying some, let us know what you get, how well they fit together, and your impressions. I'm curious to hear someone else's thoughts.
Message: Posted by: Joshua Barrett (Jul 21, 2017 10:30AM)
I had Johnson make me a reverse sun and moon a few months ago. It's a great way to go. They didn't even charge me more. You just have to wait till they get to make that particular gaff. They do it in runs.
Message: Posted by: karnak (Nov 27, 2019 09:10PM)
Just ran across this old thread. In the spirit of closure, for reference purposes (in case anybody does a search on this topic someday), I’ll state two conclusions:

St Gaudens copper coins won’t fit inside a Johnson expanded Eisenhower shell. They’re the same size (meaning a St G is bigger than a regular E dollar).

Also, the St Gaudens coins are quite thick. A Tango dollar-size C/S coin (Eisenhower/St Gaudens) will fit a Johnson shell in term of diameter — obviously the copper coin has been shaved to match its adjoining silver dollar — but the resulting C/S coin is still very thick, so coverage in terms of shell depth is poor (50% at best).

The St Gaudens C/S coin from Tango is so thick that, regardless of shell use, it visibly stands out from the crowd when in a lineup alongside regular St Gaudens coins. Unfortunately not a great option.

More desirable would be a copper-size coin whose diameter is no larger than an Eisenhower dollar (so that an expanded dollar shell will fit over it), and not quite so thick (so that a C/S gaff coin made from it wouldn’t be too thick, making for better/deeper coverage with a dollar shell over it, and so that it doesn’t stand out as visibly thicker than other adjoining copper coins in a lineup).

Any recommendations for such a suitably not-too-thick and truly dollar-sized (no bigger in diameter) copper coin?
Message: Posted by: karnak (Nov 27, 2019 10:16PM)
Correction (I miswrote because I misremembered): the Tango C/S coin is so thick that it stands out in a lineup from other half dollars, not from other St Gaudens.

Still, optimal would be a copper coin identical in size (both diameter and thickness) to silver dollars, for seamless use with both expanded shells and lineups with regular coins of either (copper or silver) type.
Message: Posted by: Mb217 (Nov 29, 2019 09:43AM)
Yep, this is an old thread. Hope you ferreted out what you were looking for by now as to all this. :)

I like using dollar size coins too and mostly play with them at this time, but still think some things are better done with the half dollar size coins. For instance, I prefer to do spellbound stuff with the larger coins but coins across is better manipulated and more deceptive using half dollar coins, even with a ] when I do Roth’s wonderful version. And I even like to mix the two sizes as to some things, like my “Revisited” effect. It’s really good to stay tuned with both sizes and this trick has helped me to stay sharp with both sizes. 😉

And I still like my old C/S coin and Kennedy half dollar Ex ], matched them perfectly for sets I still use today, all from Johnson’s. I’ve dabbled in a custom made dollar size C/S coin set but found it a bit more challenging to use, same for the Ike dollar ]’s...I just didn't use them all that much. Now I spend most of my time with just a Morgan replica and a brass dollar size Chinese coin. I practice with it and perform using it most days, my hands have really adapted to them over the years now. 😊
Message: Posted by: Calvin Tong (Feb 15, 2020 04:19AM)
Here are some interesting facts I uncovered mixing and matching.

The C/S insert in Tangos dollar size Eisenhower CSB is small enough to fit inside my Lassen expanded shell. It can pass. So if you had an Eisenhower tail side lassen shell with the tango CS insert from the tango CSB set, you end up with a sun moon. Or is it moon sun?

The CS insert from the Tango magnetic Eisenhower scotch and soda is a bit thinner and smaller in diameter than the above. So it can fit under the Eisenhower expanded shell, but not close enough to flash both sides.