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Topic: A beginning in anagrams?
Message: Posted by: Rob_magician (Aug 8, 2017 09:08AM)
Hi everyone,

I don't know where to start with anagrams I've tried to look for places to start with them but I can't seem to find any. I've heard of Matt mellos books paths and origin but have assumed they are for someone who is advanced with anagrams. Can someone give me advice?
Message: Posted by: Amirá (Aug 8, 2017 09:19AM)
Hey Rob_magician

You can learn the basics of Anagrams [url=http://progressiveanagrams.blogspot.com]Art Vanderlay-Progressive[/url]

[Img]https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5YE-urXgxxY/WKmZ9rvWm2I/AAAAAAAAAy4/qQYyq9OGfQoHCkTDc4a98rWVfWmoXdynwCLcB/s400/Progressive.png[/img]

then you will be ready for You can learn the basics of Anagrams [url=http://pathsmentalism.blogspot.cl/]Matt Mello-PATH[/url]
Message: Posted by: Rob_magician (Aug 8, 2017 09:22AM)
Thanks for the reply Amirá!
Message: Posted by: Sven Rygh (Aug 8, 2017 10:20AM)
- or if you want an automation,
Try Panagram
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Aug 8, 2017 10:29AM)
The important thing to know about this topic is that construction of the branching tree is the easy part (there are even [url=https://www.deceptionary.com/content-t.html]free programs[/url] to do it for you). The hard part is developing the script: making the misses invisible (because otherwise it plays like a letter-guessing game). You must learn the three techniques for disguising misses, and then be very creative about exploiting them.
Message: Posted by: Rob_magician (Aug 8, 2017 10:33AM)
I have heard from some people that when they use anagrams their spectators think that they are just guessing letters, I guess it comes down to presentation like most things in mentalism
Message: Posted by: matthewmello (Aug 8, 2017 11:50AM)
Thanks for the shoutout on PATHS, Pablo!

And I just recently released a PDF called "Origin", which details even more of my anagram work. Using the techniques and tools in my newest offering, we can divine thought of jungle animals, star signs, "random" thoughts, as well as personal items, like a person's favorite color or sport. We can reveal all of these things without ever asking about a specific letter.

Rob, I wouldn't necessarily call them "advanced" techniques, but more an evolution of the anagram concept. They are no more difficult to memorize or present. In fact, you may even find them easier to memorize than traditional B.A.'s, and a solid presentation is built right into the system. At no point does it feel like we're making guesses. We're just directing them to do some things in their mind, and we can then reveal their thoughts.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=647402&forum=218
Message: Posted by: Rob_magician (Aug 8, 2017 11:59AM)
I've wanted to get into anagrams for a while and while I was looking I seen another members review of paths (Madison) and since he thought it was brilliant I hope to get both paths and origin eventually!

Thanks Matt for the reply!
Message: Posted by: matthewmello (Aug 8, 2017 12:20PM)
No problem, Rob! Yeah, PATHS was more about providing a bunch of different presentations to remove the "hit or miss" approach to letter guessing in traditional B.A.'s and P.A.'s.

Origin is it's own separate system, and it feels very different, with no letter guessing whatsoever.

If you do decide to purchase them both, I would love to hear what you think as more of a beginner in this field.
Message: Posted by: Sven Rygh (Aug 8, 2017 12:30PM)
[quote]On Aug 8, 2017, ddyment wrote:
The important thing to know about this topic is that construction of the branching tree is the easy part (there are even [url=https://www.deceptionary.com/content-t.html]free programs[/url] to do it for you). The hard part is developing the script: making the misses invisible (because otherwise it plays like a letter-guessing game). You must learn the three techniques for disguising misses, and then be very creative about exploiting them. [/quote]

What Doug said
Message: Posted by: Rob_magician (Aug 8, 2017 01:28PM)
[quote]On Aug 8, 2017, matthewmello wrote:
No problem, Rob! Yeah, PATHS was more about providing a bunch of different presentations to remove the "hit or miss" approach to letter guessing in traditional B.A.'s and P.A.'s.

Origin is it's own separate system, and it feels very different, with no letter guessing whatsoever.

If you do decide to purchase them both, I would love to hear what you think as more of a beginner in this field. [/quote]

Will do Matt!
Message: Posted by: rrubin98 (Aug 8, 2017 02:23PM)
Another recommendation for PATHS as well as Doug Dyment's Sign Language.

Regarding software for branching anagrams - I've tried them all (including Panagram, which is probably the best of the desktop apps). Most of the links I tried for free apps either didn't work anymore or led to software that just didn't meet my needs. Finally ended up writing my own! Painful but necessary sometimes.


- Richard
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Aug 8, 2017 08:12PM)
The problem with the anagram construction programs is that they have no deep understanding of the heart of the problem: hiding the misses. I've never used a program for this (and I'm a former computer programmer, who has written much software for other material that I have developed); I just make a grid with all the letter counts on the rows, and the "guessing" steps on the columns.

This allows me to devise choices based on the three techniques for disguising misses, some of which are likely to be context sensitive, and are not in the generator programs, which just automate the math (and typically overlook better choices in favour of early elimination of the most letters).
Message: Posted by: Rob_magician (Aug 9, 2017 05:13AM)
[quote]On Aug 8, 2017, Amirá wrote:
Hey Rob_magician

You can learn the basics of Anagrams [url=http://progressiveanagrams.blogspot.com]Art Vanderlay-Progressive[/url]

[Img]https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5YE-urXgxxY/WKmZ9rvWm2I/AAAAAAAAAy4/qQYyq9OGfQoHCkTDc4a98rWVfWmoXdynwCLcB/s400/Progressive.png[/img]

then you will be ready for You can learn the basics of Anagrams [url=http://pathsmentalism.blogspot.cl/]Matt Mello-PATH[/url] [/quote]

I just ordered progressive, I can't wait to start with anagrams!
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 9, 2017 08:11AM)
Hi Rob,

If you're interested in anagrams, especially as you seem to be really interested in learning how to present them in a compelling way, you'd probably find my first Penguin Live Lecture of value to you: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/6121

You may also be interested in my book, The Prodigal, available through my signature link below (some testimonials for this book are also below):

"Seriously, this is underpriced...A vast amount of theory and applicable content is squeezed into this... After I get it all integrated, this is going straight into my naked repertoire...

This has a huge amount of information to digest, but it's 100% workable, and Atlas has brought many, many new ways to work with this to the table. I think that many don't use this principle simply because a work this all encompassing has never before been written on the topic. This really fills a previously gaping hole in mentalism and opens up many doors.

This is incredibly underpriced in my opinion.

I rarely get to say this in reviews, but this is a solid 10/10." -Bill Dekel, Author of the MindCraft Series

"Good stuff...well worth the attention of many mentalists. Very thorough coverage and history of this method. Congratulations.

l love what you have to say about this method and technique." -Greg Arce, Author of Deep Thought, Four Thought, and Lost in Thought

"The first thing you should appreciate reading this is the amount of work and thought that has been put into this product. This is not a cut and shut job like some products that are being released presently...If you want a better understanding of this area of mentalism grab this while you still can, this book will open new doors and windows for your thinking. Great work Atlas!

Great book, great thinking, great price!

Grab it see what all the fuss is about." -Peter Turner, Author of Dare to Be Bold and Isabella's Dream

"This is a fantastic read. I must admit this pdf takes a very old method and gives it a good shake down. I have always avoided using this sort of thing in my act. I've never been comfortable with working it. Having read over this very fine piece from Atlas I must confess, I am a convert. The 90 paged pdf is crammed full of information, explanations, examples and ideas. This work was not hurriedly thrown together, it is immediately obvious that a lot of time and care and effort has taken place to bring this release to fruition. I am impressed. I will be reading this over a good few times to give this method the respect it is due. Many of you will be familiar with the method but I imagine even those that already use it will learn from this in depth exploration.

Well done Atlas, you have certainly changed my perception and attitude towards this chestnut of mentalism.

This is a must have!" -Derek Heron, Corporate Entertainer

"This is some great new thinking and fits really well with 'Naked Mentalism' and the whole approach of getting as close to the real thing as possible. A very accomplished release indeed." -Jon Thompson, Author of the Naked Mentalism Series

"Overall, my initial impressions are 'thank god, someone has needed to write this for a long time' and that the material provided is real world and incredibly workable. Great job Atlas."

"The Prodigal is an essential for any serious mentalist's library, or anyone wanting to finally learn how to use one of the most misunderstood, yet unquestionably powerful techniques in
mentalism." -Jakob Michaels

"Atlas has done for this principle, what Docc Hilford and Max Maven did for magicians choice. IMHO

Well written. No fluff. Good stuff." -Stephen Young. Thought Illusions

"This is, quite simply, excellent.

I've always love the idea of what is presented in this manuscript, but never thought it a viable tool to work with. Atlas has done an excellent job breaking down each and every step of the process, making it a very workable endeavor.

Yes, you'll need to work with it, and practice, like all things. But after reading The Prodigal, for the first time I'm actually excited to put in the work.

I can't wait to further develop this and incorporate it into other routines. The effects and systems included are an excellent, excellent value, and is enough to get anyone started right off the bat. But for me, the real value lies in obtaining a very precise manual on how to master the art of a very undervalued principle in mentalism...This is one of the best purchases I've made this year, in terms of furthering the knowledge of my craft." -Rich Orvec

"The Prodigal' has resulted in me spending far too much time developing new effects.

It really is a lot of fun and I'm getting great satisfaction from each one I develop. I have road tested one of the effects in the book and it works really well.

If you use the psychological mentalist approach (as I do) you will find this to be an excellent resource, works like this are few and far between for this approach. However, if you don't use this approach, it is still an excellent resource!" -Seamus Macguire

"One method, a plethora of effects! Highly recommended!" -Scott Marshall

"I recently acquired The Prodigal. There was a lot of buzz about this and I wanted to let everyone know - that it lives up to the hype. The PDF is a strategy guide for conquering the branching anagram. The "super hero" anagram alone is worth the price but it is the "thinking + strategy" of the most effective way to use B.A.'s and disguise its use, that makes this PDF so darned good. Thanks Atlas - great stuff and job well done." -Ben Cummings, Creator of Conversations with Mind Readers

"Fantastic job Atlas! This is without a doubt the best source of info out there on the subject. Truly brilliant thinking and I am struggling to decide what/how to adopt or adapt as The Prodigal is an embarrassment of riches!" -Dr. Bill Cushman, Creator of Dr. Bill's Bend

"Atlas Brookings is a thoughtful creator who has compiled a detailed and thorough resource for anyone who is looking to deceptively and entertainingly use branching anagrams. The Prodigal is a joy to read, and I think that will be the case even for those who do not call themselves mentalists. Brookings' dedicated research into this method is inspiring. Such a passion for study and improvement should be something we all aspire to." -Arthur Trace, Magic Magazine

Best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: bowers (Aug 9, 2017 08:48AM)
Ha Rob Atlas's material is gold for sure.
You want go wrong learning from him.
Todd
Message: Posted by: Tony Iacoviello (Aug 9, 2017 09:37AM)
Lance Norris' Six Degrees of Clapton is a great place to start.
Message: Posted by: Robb (Aug 9, 2017 09:54AM)
I've never seen a mentalist use anagrams in a stage show (for a lay audience). Does anyone have a clip? I've never used them in such a context myself but do make use of them for more intimate performances. I am not sure who has the best advice for covering misses and otherwise disgusing the method, but spend an afternoon thinking about it and it's not that hard to come up with a few ideas.
Message: Posted by: Rob_magician (Aug 9, 2017 10:09AM)
Thanks everyone for these replies, I was wondering what the difference is between branching and progressive anagrams are I've heard thatpeople often disagree on this but is there a semi agreed term?
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Aug 9, 2017 10:38AM)
As is only too typical of magicians' use of language (cf. the fact that few can even pronounce equivoque correctly), the entire terminology for this methodology is flawed. To begin, no anagrams are involved at all, so that word should not even be a part of the nomenclature.

"Branching" and "progressive" refer to the same magical technique, though "branching" is to be preferred, as there are already such things as "progressive anagrams" in the real world (and, being actual anagrams, they have nothing to do with what we are discussing). There is even a book (first published in 1978) on the subject, entitled "Progressive Anagrams".
Message: Posted by: Rob_magician (Aug 9, 2017 10:45AM)
Thanks for helping Doug.

Thank you, Pablo, for sending me the ebook so quickly, I am just reading it now and I cannot wait to start learning the Zoo animal anagram.
Message: Posted by: matthewmello (Aug 9, 2017 11:20AM)
Progressive anagrams typically go down a list of items with certain subsets within that list that you would go down. Branching anagrams tend to be more like a map with lines and paths going in multiple directions based on the answer to a question. Progressive anagrams are easier to memorize, but branching anagrams can often get you to the information with fewer questions.
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 11, 2017 06:15AM)
[quote]On Aug 9, 2017, bowers wrote:
Ha Rob Atlas's material is gold for sure.
You want go wrong learning from him.
Todd [/quote]

Thanks Todd, very kind of you to say so.

Best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: Rob_magician (Aug 11, 2017 10:07AM)
I will be getting the prodigal very soon on atlas, I'm looking forward to this t!
Message: Posted by: Sven Rygh (Aug 15, 2017 01:35PM)
[quote]On Aug 9, 2017, Robb wrote:
I've never seen a mentalist use anagrams in a stage show (for a lay audience). Does anyone have a clip? I've never used them in such a context myself but do make use of them for more intimate performances. I am not sure who has the best advice for covering misses and otherwise disgusing the method, but spend an afternoon thinking about it and it's not that hard to come up with a few ideas. [/quote]

I have no clip, but I can tell you that I use anagrams pretty often,
- as a part of a multipple book test routine
- as a part of a clipline routine

In both cases I get maximum one "no", and I can live with that

I have found it far more convincing to state rather than to ask,
i e "It is an "A" in the word!" rather than "Is it an "A" in the word?"
Message: Posted by: jacobsw (Sep 5, 2017 05:59AM)
Robb, here's a clip of Atlas performing "As Advertised" from THE PRODIGAL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJZZimBY6nI
Message: Posted by: MrPoponi (Dec 2, 2017 07:06AM)
I've had a lot of problems with that, until one day I developed my personalized "no error" system.(?!)
As the ddyment said, the biggest difficulty is the presentation. Be perfect and especially don't get the "puzzle" impression.
Message: Posted by: thomasP (Dec 4, 2017 04:55AM)
Try using anagramm with other thing that letters, like the size of an object, can it be draw, etc...
Less choice but less puzzling.
Message: Posted by: Steven Keyl (Dec 4, 2017 08:24AM)
A rather radical idea with respect to PAs is the idea that you WANT to get a couple of early misses. Andy, from the The Jerx blog came up with the idea of "Transgressive Anagrams" which turns the normal process on its head, so to speak.

For those that have been using PAs for a long time, this whole concept may seem foreign, but I've tested this out quite a bit over the last year and it's now my preferred way to present these types of effects. From my way of thinking, it is a leap forward.

For those who are interested: http://www.thejerx.com/blog/2016/10/5/transgressive-anagrams