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Topic: Sand Frames in 2017
Message: Posted by: marduk41162 (Sep 1, 2017 11:36AM)
Hello all.

I've read the prior threads and clicked all the dead links. I'm hopeful fresh eyes and brainpower will offer new leads.

I'm looking for a sand frame. A nice one, made of (preferably exotic hard) wood and glass. And big enough to display an 8 x 10 photograph. I've never seen any that go bigger than Jumbo Card size.

Portrait & landscape operation is a plus (the Mikames do it).

Any help out there please?

- Mark
Message: Posted by: jimgerrish (Sep 1, 2017 12:20PM)
In 2017, there are several alternatives to the old "sand frame" that don't use sand as their modus operandi. There are electronic versions, like "Ghost Frame" by Jolyon Jenkins at the Magic Nook in the Magi-tronics section, and those made from LED flat screen TV sets by enterprising (and wealthy) experimenters. At the low price end, there are card frames made from Dollar Store picture frames, as well as more expensive frames which use polarized or colored lights to accomplish the magic. All of these can be made to accommodate an 8" x 10" photograph. So if you don't need the sand and the problems associated with using it, you can probably find what you are looking for without too much difficulty. If you insist on sand, good luck!
Message: Posted by: marduk41162 (Sep 6, 2017 10:02AM)
Thanks jimgerrish and others who offered interesting lines of thought.

I once had a wristwatch with a polarized crystal and rotating "plate" second hand. Every 15 seconds it would cycle through opaque to transparent revealing the true watch face -- the one with the King of Diamonds emblazoned on it.

And I get your overall point that by stepping away from 19th technology there are a lot of clever options. I especially enjoyed the idea of creating a miniaturized self contained Pepper's Ghost. Arthur Clarke put it best.

I guess I am appealing to an old school, ineffable quality of the sand frame. It may be old and simple, but on the other hand it's old and simple.

- M
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Sep 6, 2017 07:02PM)
I think there is also something to be said for anti-technology magic. IPhone app tricks can be awesome...or any other effect that plays off of today's technology...but they can be immediately suspect and the magic discounted based on possible technological solutions alone.

Present an old antique frame with nothing in it, and something real suddenly appears, trapped under the glass...I don't know, there still seems something very magical about that.
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Feb 6, 2018 02:12PM)
[quote]On Sep 6, 2017, Wizard of Oz wrote:
I think there is also something to be said for anti-technology magic. IPhone app tricks can be awesome...or any other effect that plays off of today's technology...but they can be immediately suspect and the magic discounted based on possible technological solutions alone.

Present an old antique frame with nothing in it, and something real suddenly appears, trapped under the glass...I don't know, there still seems something very magical about that. [/quote]

I was just searching for DIY ghost frame plans which led me here. I agree with the wizard of Oz. There is so much hi tech stuff in the public awareness these days that using a modern device gets too close to the "it's technology that did it" suspicions. Anytime a computer (that includes a smartphone, BTW !) is employed red flags should go up. With CGI and all that, anything on a screen is a ho-hum to me. I've watched the reviews of some of the effects with modern electronic gizmos and props and I have thought some are very clever and cute but so far I have no desire to get one of the ones I've seen. With many card based effects it's clearly just physics allied with a f*rce. A simple thin frame with some fine salt/sand embedded seems good to me.



Back in the late 1800's electro-magnets and electric circuits had a very brief life time before public awareness made them too obvious.
Message: Posted by: jimgerrish (Feb 6, 2018 07:38PM)
And yet, knowledge about the technology by the public can also lead them astray with simple things, like the flashlight that has no battery and yet still lights up. They know about flashlights, they know about batteries, and in their experience, not having a battery means the electric marvel won't work... yet it does. I refer to The Wizards' Journal #11 -05 - "This Little Light of Mine - my version of Trevor Lewis' "Trevor Torch".
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Feb 6, 2018 10:10PM)
Hi Jim,

Good point. Yes, but the flashlight has a battery chamber to hold batteries. So the "old fashioned" flash light used suggests it needs batteries, and that leads the audience astray -- using a flashlight gimmicked with modern technology is okay with me. In that regard, your "Little Light of Mine" effect looks like a nice routine to me. In my post I was speaking particularly of effects that in fact directly use modern technological items that most people would suspect, in a certain sense, as "having a gimmick out of the box."

Regards,
Phil
Message: Posted by: jimgerrish (Feb 6, 2018 11:47PM)
Following that line of thought, anyone who has a pair of sunglasses that automatically darken in sunlight, and become transparent in low light, OUGHT to be suspecting that particular technology is used when they see a sand frame being used. WOW shouldn't be so wonderful, either. That's one of the reasons why I am constantly working on ways to get the props into their hands, because if I were them, that's the only way I would be amazed to have a card appear out of nowhere, if it happened inside something I had already taken apart and examined, and even then I would suspect technology if there were the slightest room for it. We are just going to have to keep one step ahead of the times, as magicians have done for centuries. In the end, all we can really rely on is lying, cheating and stealing to make magic occur in the minds of the masses.
Message: Posted by: Julie (Feb 7, 2018 11:53AM)
If the methodology of a sand frame worries you (useless magician's guilt?) you might consider just a regular ungimmicked picture frame using the time-proven black art principle.

I imagine this is still being sold by someone as a complete set. If not, you can certainly find it thoroughly described in more than one of the old magic books...

Julie
Message: Posted by: Wizard of Oz (Feb 7, 2018 07:50PM)
Julie, you just reminded me of one of the first props I ever made when I was a teen. I purchased a "raw" wood frame at a hobby store (yes, they did exist when I was at this age in the early '70s), and painted it to look more "magical." I then went to the same store to purchase some felt. There was no glass in the frame, it was just a frame with a black back.

My effect was to have the spectator choose a card and I would cover the frame with a silk. After the spectator revealed her or his card, I would lift the silk and there was the card. Amazing!!!

I believe I have given enough information here to piece together the workings. Anyway, I performed then at birthday parties and small classroom shows. The effect was, well, effective.
Message: Posted by: Julie (Feb 7, 2018 11:50PM)
Hello Wiz

Good trick! Embellish the card appearance with a torn-and-restored premise where the audience helper keeps one piece for identification and you have a very effective interlude.

Julie
Message: Posted by: Moxahalla (Feb 16, 2018 01:22AM)
There is no reason at all that the "sand frame" gaff would ever be suspected by an audience.

...The Sand Frame is so old, that it is brand new to today's audience. I love them.

The best models are of course the Owen ones...but you are right--I have never seen one that would actually hold a 8 x 10 photograph.

...and hence, for that reason, and that reason alone (aside from the Large expense of getting a custom-size sand frame made)...there are plenty of alternative methods, as mentioned above, that may suit your needs.
Message: Posted by: chmara (Feb 17, 2018 02:37AM)
Several years back I got a wonderful Sand Frame from Hocus-Pocus that holds 8x10 easily. However it is built with a b;acl finish painted frame unlike my smaller natural wood frame made by wen which indeed only fits a Jumbo card. I have another frame wich does manage a reveal faster than a sand frame on the black art principle but set-up MUST be done out of sight of the audience, unlike the easy to reset sandframe. I do use an easel with them, not wall space -- where I use a fallong picture.
Message: Posted by: goodingda (May 11, 2018 07:46PM)
The only sand frame I know of that will hold an 8 X 10 is the jumbo frame by Milson-Worth, and they are hard to find.
Message: Posted by: marduk41162 (Jul 11, 2018 07:22AM)
Yeah I like antiques. I'll keep looking. Things pop on auction sites now and then.
Message: Posted by: daviddelrey (Jul 28, 2018 09:44PM)
Like goodingda said, the Milson Worth version is great, but yes, very hard to find.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Mar 24, 2019 11:31PM)
I was browsing and ran across some regular and electronic type frames in exotic woods.

Take a look, you might find something you can't live without. His frames are large size.

Colin Rose was famous magician in Europe many years ago, he has since been crafting wood items for the magicians of the world.

www.fiveofheartsmagic.com
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Mar 25, 2019 01:16PM)
[quote]On Mar 24, 2019, Bill Hegbli wrote:
I was browsing and ran across some regular and electronic type frames in exotic woods.

Take a look, you might find something you can't live without. His frames are large size.

Colin Rose was famous magician in Europe many years ago, he has since been crafting wood items for the magicians of the world.

www.fiveofheartsmagic.com [/quote]

I have the large version of Colin Rose's Miracle Flash Frame (not the remote version). It is designed to hang on a wall, but could just as easily be held and operated by an assistant. Very fast and very well made prop.

For the record, I was making and selling an ungimmicked card frame, Simplex Card Frame (out of stock now). The entire frame is taken apart and all pieces shown before being re-constructed. The card or photo then appears within.

Regarding Sand Frames, I bought a couple of them from David Ginn a few years ago. Although they are only large enough for a jumbo card, they worked quite well. They were pretty plain jane, so I "doctored" them up for my own use, and one for a friend. The neat thing about these is that the hinged back door allows for a rather unique subtlety, where a photo in the frame may be removed (everyone can see clear through the glass), the door closed again, frame shown empty, and have the photo (or another) reappear in the frame.

[img]http://themagiccompany.com/witchframe.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: marduk41162 (Mar 28, 2019 09:06AM)
Are there any plans out there?
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Mar 28, 2019 01:52PM)
[quote]On Mar 28, 2019, marduk41162 wrote:
Are there any plans out there? [/quote]

Are you an good wood craftsman, with a bench saw and router, know how to sand fine wood, and apply varnish?

Not to my knowledge, I never heard if they really use sand.

So I wasted my time hunting for you, I guess you don't want fine wood, and good craftsmanship anymore. Did you even look at his website, he has several different models.
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Mar 28, 2019 02:14PM)
[quote]On Mar 28, 2019, marduk41162 wrote:
Are there any plans out there? [/quote]

This is not a Sand Frame reference:
Just remembered that there was a post for the Card Frame in the Secret Section, discussing T. Nelson Downs version explained in an online book. The way it is described it should not be very hard to make up and learn the handling. If I remember correctly, you can even use a store bought frame and with a little added pieces, it should work just fine.

https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?forum=37&topic=665400#6
Message: Posted by: magician304 (Aug 20, 2019 09:35PM)
Check in on Potter and Potter Auctions, have seen one or two at auction there over the years.
Message: Posted by: marduk41162 (Aug 21, 2019 07:23AM)
There is an old (1959 - 1965) Tenyo / Mikame M-35 on eeebeigh right now.