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Topic: What a deal!
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Sep 10, 2017 11:51PM)
I just saw a TV commercial for [url=https://www.speedycash.com/]Speedy Cash[/url]. They have loans available for only – [b][i]only![/i][/b] – 8% per month.

At least they were upfront in the ad: they did say that the APR is only – [b][i]only![/i][/b] – 96%.

Such a deal!
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Sep 11, 2017 07:59AM)
My heart aches. Usury laws appear to be toothless.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Sep 11, 2017 10:26AM)
The US got rid of usury laws years ago.

Idiots.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Sep 11, 2017 10:27AM)
Because of the magic of compound interest, the effective annual rate is closer to 252%. That is, (1+.08)^12. So if you borrowed a hundred dollars and paid no payments for a year, you would owe $252.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Sep 11, 2017 10:30AM)
[quote]On Sep 11, 2017, S2000magician wrote:
The US got rid of usury laws years ago.

Idiots. [/quote]

Not idiots. Criminals bribed by criminals to vote in favor of anti-working-class legislation.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 11, 2017 10:55AM)
[quote]On Sep 10, 2017, S2000magician wrote:
I just saw a TV commercial for [url=https://www.speedycash.com/]Speedy Cash[/url]. They have loans available for only – [b][i]only![/i][/b] – 8% per month.

At least they were upfront in the ad: they did say that the APR is only – [b][i]only![/i][/b] – 96%.

Such a deal! [/quote]

We had guys in the neighborhood who went to jail for charging these rates. Now it is just good business.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Sep 11, 2017 01:19PM)
*152% interest.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Sep 11, 2017 01:44PM)
[quote]On Sep 11, 2017, S2000magician wrote:
The US got rid of usury laws years ago.

Idiots. [/quote]


My heart further aches. We have usury laws, but they are much too weak IMO.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Sep 11, 2017 02:10PM)
Poor, poor victims getting forced into paying ridiculously high interest rates on short term loans. It's obviously everyone's fault except the dummies borrowing the money. My heart just aches.
Message: Posted by: NYCTwister (Sep 11, 2017 03:01PM)
It's not that simple Rockwall.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Sep 12, 2017 09:24AM)
What's the calculated interest rate on a $35 overdraft charge on a $10 overdraft that you cover 2 days later? Does your heart ache over that charge?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 12, 2017 09:34AM)
Rockwall you're not wrong.

The problem is math skills.

Something like 62% of students in public schools could not pass basic math skills testing. Worse yet the other half didn't even show up.

(That is a joke, not a typo.)
Message: Posted by: Cliffg37 (Sep 12, 2017 11:43AM)
"In order to get a loan from a bank, first you must prove you don't need it."

- Author unknown
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Sep 12, 2017 08:54PM)
The loan in discussion is a payday loan. It's meant to be a short term loan of less than a month and the "interest rate" is really more of a service charge.

If you think it's criminal to charge what they charge, then I have a great business opportunity for you. Open up a payday loan center in your city and charge what you think is a fair interest rate on these 2 week loans and you'll have people flocking to your door. Of course, you'll more than likely soon be out of business trying to cover your overhead by charging so little.

For instance, let's say you think 12% per annum is a fair interest rate. If someone comes into your center and wishes to borrow $200 until they get paid in a week, you would be able to charge them about 46 cents for the loan. Good luck making enough to pay your $15/hour employees the 10-15 minutes it probably takes to fill out all the paperwork and handle all the processing.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 12, 2017 09:11PM)
What it is meant to be is usury, which is what it is.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Sep 12, 2017 10:36PM)
Like I said Tommy. I've got a great business opportunity for you.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Sep 12, 2017 10:41PM)
[quote]On Sep 12, 2017, rockwall wrote:
What's the calculated interest rate on a $35 overdraft charge on a $10 overdraft that you cover 2 days later? Does your heart ache over that charge? [/quote]
Last time I looked, banks actually make more on personal accounts from service charges and late fees than interest. Yes, equally usurious, thanks for pointing that out. They will miss no chance to enhance their profits at working people's expense.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Sep 12, 2017 10:45PM)
[quote]On Sep 12, 2017, Cliffg37 wrote:
"In order to get a loan from a bank, first you must prove you don't need it."

- Author unknown [/quote]
Not anymore. The game for banks now is to loan to poor risks as well as good risks. The poor risks will be paying forever, or if the loans go bust, the bankers, too big to fail, get bailed out by the taxpayers. Socialized risk, Privatized profits.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 12, 2017 11:00PM)
[quote]On Sep 12, 2017, landmark wrote:
[quote]On Sep 12, 2017, rockwall wrote:
What's the calculated interest rate on a $35 overdraft charge on a $10 overdraft that you cover 2 days later? Does your heart ache over that charge? [/quote]
Last time I looked, banks actually make more on personal accounts from service charges and late fees than interest. Yes, equally usurious, thanks for pointing that out. They will miss no chance to enhance their profits at working people's expense. [/quote]

Some end up paying those fees back
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Sep 14, 2017 01:22PM)
So Tommy and landmark and anyone else who thinks they charge too much, if you were to start a business to help people out by loaning them a bit of money until their next paycheck, what would you charge to loan someone $200 for 2 weeks?
Message: Posted by: NYCTwister (Sep 14, 2017 02:31PM)
Rockwall, as I said, the issue isn't so simple.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Sep 14, 2017 08:13PM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2017, rockwall wrote:
So Tommy and landmark and anyone else who thinks they charge too much, if you were to start a business to help people out by loaning them a bit of money until their next paycheck, what would you charge to loan someone $200 for 2 weeks? [/quote]

Why would I start a business to exploit poor people?
If I wanted to help people, there are many other paths to choose.
People can choose not to exploit others. Personal responsibility.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Sep 14, 2017 08:24PM)
Lending money to help someone get by till the end of the week is exploiting people? How noble of you!
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 14, 2017 11:32PM)
Paper money in itself is a con game but as for thinking the loan sharks charge too much I don’t but I do think the people who borrow at those rates are desperate suckers being exploited.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 15, 2017 03:30AM)
In a lot of ways it is as simple as Rockwall suggests. Don't spend more than you make has been thrown out the window.

The point he makes is not totally invalid. It is easy to just say people are being taken advantage of and on some level they are. But nobody forces them to go to get the loan is I believe his point. I am not agreeing or disagreeing but it is a valid position to take.

I once took an OUTRAGEOUS loan to keep my business going. I knew what I was doing, I calculated the need vs. the cost and I do not feel as if I was "taken advantage of". Nobody forced me to take it, and certainly the business would have failed without it. We put ourselves in that position, and never have again. (The never have again part is completely credited to my wife.)

I'm not suggesting this is the position everyone is in by a long shot. But in many ways it is exactly as simple as Rockwall suggests.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Sep 15, 2017 08:00AM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2017, rockwall wrote:
Lending money to help someone get by till the end of the week is exploiting people? How noble of you! [/quote]

Your definition of "help": charging 152% interest.

Nice try. Let's call things by what they are--charging what the market will bear when people are desperate. The lenders are not Mother Teresa. The word "help" should not be debased that way.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Sep 15, 2017 08:02AM)
The problem is that often people desperate enough to agree to a 20% loan are often desperate enough to agree to a 100% loan. If they can't get the cheap loans that most people can qualify for, they take what they can get. Usurious profiteers recognize this, and gouge. In economic terms, the demand curve is nearly vertical.

It's the same situation as the [url=https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/12/pharma-bro-martin-shkreli/421083/]"pharma-bro"[/url] who bought the patent to a life-saving drug, and raised the price from $13.70 to $750. The desperate will pay, he reasoned.

And that's why he's a despised man.

In your moral system--religious or otherwise--do you have a tenet that says that the vulnerable and desperate are to be exploited for your profit?

Yes, the situation is simple. And your beliefs about it say a great deal about you.
Message: Posted by: NYCTwister (Sep 15, 2017 09:57AM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2017, rockwall wrote:
So Tommy and landmark and anyone else who thinks they charge too much, if you were to start a business to help people out by loaning them a bit of money until their next paycheck, what would you charge to loan someone $200 for 2 weeks? [/quote]

A $15.00 flat fee. 7.5% of the total.

I don't know if that's enough for a business, which only makes these types of loans, to be sufficiently profitable but that's not the major point; which is that, by nature, these types of businesses are another symptom of the moral crisis the world is facing - and has been facing for millennia.

There are cleaner ways of making money.
The idea of investing considerable resources in order to go into this type of business is repugnant to me.

The fact that, in 2017, it's still a viable and profitable business is shame on us.

I've lived through periods where what I had wasn't going to make it to payday. It's a horrible feeling in general, but the worst part was how limited your possibilities seem to get. I can easily see how one can fall into a downward spiral, constantly thinking that there is no other choice - especially if your skill set is limited.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Sep 15, 2017 02:17PM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, landmark wrote:
[quote]On Sep 14, 2017, rockwall wrote:
Lending money to help someone get by till the end of the week is exploiting people? How noble of you! [/quote]

Your definition of "help": charging 152% interest.

Nice try. Let's call things by what they are--charging what the market will bear when people are desperate. The lenders are not Mother Teresa. The word "help" should not be debased that way. [/quote]

I asked what YOU would charge and you said you wouldn't do it because it would be taking advantage of people. So, you've essentially said charging ANYTHING would be taking advantage of them. (Which doesn't surprise me coming from a capitalist hating communist. Heck, you figure you'd be taking advantage of the people you hired to work for you!)
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Sep 15, 2017 02:19PM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
[quote]On Sep 14, 2017, rockwall wrote:
So Tommy and landmark and anyone else who thinks they charge too much, if you were to start a business to help people out by loaning them a bit of money until their next paycheck, what would you charge to loan someone $200 for 2 weeks? [/quote]

A $15.00 flat fee. 7.5% of the total.

I don't know if that's enough for a business, which only makes these types of loans, to be sufficiently profitable but that's not the major point; which is that, by nature, these types of businesses are another symptom of the moral crisis the world is facing - and has been facing for millennia.

There are cleaner ways of making money.
The idea of investing considerable resources in order to go into this type of business is repugnant to me.

The fact that, in 2017, it's still a viable and profitable business is shame on us.

I've lived through periods where what I had wasn't going to make it to payday. It's a horrible feeling in general, but the worst part was how limited your possibilities seem to get. I can easily see how one can fall into a downward spiral, constantly thinking that there is no other choice - especially if your skill set is limited. [/quote]


Horrors!!! Have you calculated the effective interest rate that would be on a 2 week loan!!!!

Now, what do you charge when they don't pay you back when they promised?
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 15, 2017 02:33PM)
The magic number is 72: if you are constantly lending money out at say at 10% a month then your money will double about every seven months as opposed to ten. In the world of gambling, 10% a month is not unusual. 10% a week some sharks charge.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 15, 2017 03:09PM)
So how about we close all pawn shops?
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 15, 2017 03:26PM)
In a world, where money is king, holding on to your own integrity isn’t easy. To hold on to your integrity then you must live a frugal life and once you have that, then you might help other people. But who on earth wants to live a frugal life?
Message: Posted by: landmark (Sep 15, 2017 03:55PM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, rockwall wrote:
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, landmark wrote:
[quote]On Sep 14, 2017, rockwall wrote:
Lending money to help someone get by till the end of the week is exploiting people? How noble of you! [/quote]

Your definition of "help": charging 152% interest.

Nice try. Let's call things by what they are--charging what the market will bear when people are desperate. The lenders are not Mother Teresa. The word "help" should not be debased that way. [/quote]

I asked what YOU would charge and you said you wouldn't do it because it would be taking advantage of people. So, you've essentially said charging ANYTHING would be taking advantage of them. (Which doesn't surprise me coming from a capitalist hating communist. Heck, you figure you'd be taking advantage of the people you hired to work for you!) [/quote]

Whether you are surprised or not by my views is not the point. Neither am I surprised by your views. What I think is telling is your need to cloak the obvious exploitation as "help."
Message: Posted by: landmark (Sep 15, 2017 04:02PM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
So how about we close all pawn shops? [/quote]

It would certainly be a good thing to work towards a society that doesn't need them.
Pretty interesting Rod Steiger movie if you recall from the 60s.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 15, 2017 04:28PM)
The Devil Fish used to have a pawn shop.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 15, 2017 04:43PM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, landmark wrote:
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
So how about we close all pawn shops? [/quote]

It would certainly be a good thing to work towards a society that doesn't need them.
Pretty interesting Rod Steiger movie if you recall from the 60s. [/quote]

The are the original exploitation if we follow your theory.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Sep 15, 2017 05:38PM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, landmark wrote:
...

It would certainly be a good thing to work towards a society that doesn't need them.
... [/quote]

Ahh yes, the never-ending quest for a communist utopia. It must be out there somewhere, if only we could find it!
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 15, 2017 06:01PM)
The world we are being taken too as we speak is a technocracy. There will be no money but rations of C02 and I am not sure if or not one will be able to lend them at interest. You will simply do as you are told to get your ration. Some will be more equal than others, like a communist utopia but not quite the same. I am not sure if Landmark would be happy with that system but I am quite sure that all the Green people would.
Message: Posted by: NYCTwister (Sep 15, 2017 10:36PM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, rockwall wrote:
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, landmark wrote:
...

It would certainly be a good thing to work towards a society that doesn't need them.
... [/quote]

Ahh yes, the never-ending quest for a communist utopia. It must be out there somewhere, if only we could find it! [/quote]

You understand what's being said.
The fact that you need to twist such a statement, in order to defend the despicable, speaks volumes about your character and it's moral base.

Let's never speak of changing what's wrong, since what we have works fine for YOU; and for those it doesn't then "suck it up - yada yada yada - bootstraps - yada yada yada - get a fourth job."

Thankfully, the majority of those who default to that rhetorical, RW BS are coming to the end of their time. Hopefully they won't do too much MORE damage on their way into infamy.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Sep 15, 2017 10:51PM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
So how about we close all pawn shops? [/quote]

How about we regulate them instead?
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 16, 2017 05:51AM)
Https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703964104575334611037072320
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 16, 2017 11:19AM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
So how about we close all pawn shops? [/quote]

How about we regulate them instead? [/quote]

More than they already are?
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Sep 16, 2017 11:43AM)
[quote]On Sep 16, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
So how about we close all pawn shops? [/quote]

How about we regulate them instead? [/quote]

More than they already are? [/quote]

I don't know the local regulations where you are, so I can't comment.

In general, pawn shops should be regulated (they certainly are here) to prevent usury. Which is the point of this discussion.

No need to shut them down. Just put some controls on the power they exert over vulnerable people. We probably agree here, Danny.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 16, 2017 12:01PM)
They are already regulated out the wazoo. But landmark seems to think it is exploitation.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 16, 2017 09:23PM)
I think you ought to know at your age that time is money.

If you charge $15.00 FLAT fee for a two-week loan of $200, then what do you think your annual interest rate is?
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Sep 17, 2017 04:49PM)
[quote]On Sep 16, 2017, tommy wrote:
I think you ought to know at your age that time is money.

If you charge $15.00 FLAT fee for a two-week loan of $200, then what do you think your annual interest rate is? [/quote]

Explain it to me. It seems to me, if he's charging a flat fee, then there IS no "interest rate."

The interest is $15.00. Not 1%, not 5%, not 9%, not 125%, $15.00
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 18, 2017 10:30AM)
Explain to the reader, what's in a name, when a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.


A flat fee of $15 on a $200 two week loan by any other name is 7.5% interest every two weeks.

That incidentally is far more than the loan sharks, which he loathes, are charging, as they are only charging 8% per month.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 18, 2017 10:40AM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
[quote]On Sep 14, 2017, rockwall wrote:
So Tommy and landmark and anyone else who thinks they charge too much, if you were to start a business to help people out by loaning them a bit of money until their next paycheck, what would you charge to loan someone $200 for 2 weeks? [/quote]

A $15.00 flat fee. 7.5% of the total.

I don't know if that's enough for a business, which only makes these types of loans, to be sufficiently profitable but that's not the major point; which is that, by nature, these types of businesses are another symptom of the moral crisis the world is facing - and has been facing for millennia.

There are cleaner ways of making money.
The idea of investing considerable resources in order to go into this type of business is repugnant to me.

The fact that, in 2017, it's still a viable and profitable business is shame on us.

I've lived through periods where what I had wasn't going to make it to payday. It's a horrible feeling in general, but the worst part was how limited your possibilities seem to get. I can easily see how one can fall into a downward spiral, constantly thinking that there is no other choice - especially if your skill set is limited. [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 18, 2017 10:41AM)
Is it legal and moral Ed just so you don't call it interest?
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Sep 19, 2017 04:23PM)
[quote]On Sep 18, 2017, tommy wrote:
Explain to the reader, what's in a name, when a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.


A flat fee of $15 on a $200 two week loan by any other name is 7.5% interest every two weeks.

That incidentally is far more than the loan sharks, which he loathes, are charging, as they are only charging 8% per month. [/quote]

As I understand it, the interest gets added to the principal. Slip behind and you end up paying on the interest and the principal doesn't ever diminish. A flat fee is s flat fee. You owe $215.00. Period. Not 215, then 230, then 245.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Sep 19, 2017 04:31PM)
[quote]On Sep 19, 2017, ed rhodes wrote:
[quote]On Sep 18, 2017, tommy wrote:
Explain to the reader, what's in a name, when a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

A flat fee of $15 on a $200 two week loan by any other name is 7.5% interest every two weeks.

That incidentally is far more than the loan sharks, which he loathes, are charging, as they are only charging 8% per month.[/quote]
As I understand it, the interest gets added to the principal. Slip behind and you end up paying on the interest and the principal doesn't ever diminish. A flat fee is s flat fee. You owe $215.00. Period. Not 215, then 230, then 245.[/quote]
Interest is simply the price you pay to borrow money. When it gets paid doesn't matter. What it's called doesn't matter.

If you charge $15 to lend $200, then the $15 is interest ($15 / $100 = 7.5% interest, to be exact), no matter when it's paid, and no matter what it's called.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 19, 2017 04:37PM)
Plus if you don't pay the $215 when agreed there are penalties is I'm not mistaken.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 19, 2017 08:05PM)
I don’t know what Bill means by “when it gets paid doesn't matter”.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Sep 19, 2017 09:39PM)
[quote]On Sep 19, 2017, landmark wrote:
[quote]On Sep 17, 2017, rockwall wrote:
But, lending money is immoral? That's a new one. [/quote]

New one? New Testament maybe:

http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Jesus_and_the_money_changers

And for Old Testament fans, there was the Jubilee Year, when debts were cancelled every 50 years. [/quote]

Wow. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you so misinterpret a simple bible passage. Jesus wasn't upset with them for 'lending' money. That's pretty clear even from the link you posted.
Message: Posted by: Magnus Eisengrim (Sep 19, 2017 09:40PM)
[quote]On Sep 19, 2017, tommy wrote:
I don’t know what Bill means by “when it gets paid doesn't matter”. [/quote]

I believe that he is making the distinction between interest, which is an amount of money, and interest rate, which is a percent per unity time. e.g. The interest might be $20, but the interest rate might be 12%/year.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Sep 19, 2017 09:53PM)
As landmark and NYC have pointed out, people who borrow from payday lenders are probably desperate. Maybe they had an unexpected expense and now they don’t have the cash to buy groceries for their family. Maybe they need to get their car fixed or they’ll lose their job. Who knows?

So yes, I don’t have a problem saying that a payday lender is offering them some help by lending them some money until the end of the month to help them get through the month. I’m sure the people who need the money appreciate the loan a lot more than what landmark or NYC offers them. The desire to “work towards a society that doesn’t need them” or the moralizing about how “despicable” the lender is.

Landmark asked, “why would I start a business to exploit poor people?” Which of course is a straw man. I didn’t ask landmark to start a business to exploit poor people. But I’ll answer the question anyway. You might want to start a business to lend people short term money because you feel they are being taken advantage of and you would offer them a better deal to help them out.

Of course, that would be difficult. It’s much easier to offer them nothing and claim how ‘moral’ you are because of it.
Message: Posted by: S2000magician (Sep 19, 2017 10:13PM)
[quote]On Sep 19, 2017, tommy wrote:
I don’t know what Bill means by “when it gets paid doesn't matter”. [/quote]
I do.

(He means that if you pay the fee/interest when you get the loan or pay the fee/interest when you repay the loan, it's still interest.)
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 19, 2017 10:22PM)
The truth is they are not payday loans to workers but are dole money loans which are given to people who cannot afford any interest at all without going hungry because they only get just enough dole money to live on. Therefore, then, these dirty no good loan sharks are starving the poor and the insane. In the interest of justice, all these bankers ought to be strung up at the nearest lamppost. All we need is a few pitchforks.
Message: Posted by: landmark (Sep 20, 2017 06:30AM)
[quote]On Sep 19, 2017, rockwall wrote:
[quote]On Sep 19, 2017, landmark wrote:
[quote]On Sep 17, 2017, rockwall wrote:
But, lending money is immoral? That's a new one. [/quote]

New one? New Testament maybe:

http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Jesus_and_the_money_changers

And for Old Testament fans, there was the Jubilee Year, when debts were cancelled every 50 years. [/quote]

Wow. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you so misinterpret a simple bible passage. Jesus wasn't upset with them for 'lending' money. That's pretty clear even from the link you posted. [/quote]

The money changers charged an extortionist fee for exchanging money. It's pretty clear that He was more than angry and called them robbers.

For hundreds of years the Christian Church left money lending to the Jews, as they believed Christians should not be involved in such activity.

Your position is completely ahistorical. Charging interest has [i]long[/i] been seen as an unsavory activity.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 22, 2017 05:45PM)
In my professional opinion, never trust anybody that tells you they wouldn't sell their self-respect for any amount of money.
Message: Posted by: stoneunhinged (Sep 23, 2017 02:27PM)
[quote]On Sep 22, 2017, tommy wrote:
In my professional opinion, never trust anybody that tells you they wouldn't sell their self-respect for any amount of money. [/quote]

I would sell my self respect, and I might even be cheap. But I'd want a low interest rate to buy myself back, or I'd lose even more self respect.
Message: Posted by: rockwall (Sep 23, 2017 05:48PM)
What is a good interest rate on self respect?
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 24, 2017 01:51PM)
It is relative to the risk - the higher the risk of default the higher the interest rate. It is like gambling odds offered by bookies - the horse with the best chance is offered at lowest odds.
Message: Posted by: NYCTwister (Sep 26, 2017 08:00AM)
[quote]On Sep 26, 2017, tommy wrote:
Well, we can only hope that the wife of the above sniveling little guttersnipe is as pleasant as he is. [/quote]

Well, we sincerely hope that you are, in fact, a professional troll.

We'd hate to think you spend hours of your days posting your sanctimonious claptrap without compensation.

We'll refrain from speaking about your wife since we doubt that any woman would be stupid enough to willingly commit to a life of such torture.
Message: Posted by: NYCTwister (Sep 26, 2017 08:32AM)
[quote]On Sep 26, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
It is hard to imagine in life you don't get punched a lot as aggressive as you are. [/quote]

Sure I'm aggressive - with good reason; but of course I'm the only one.

Go back to the beginning of the thread and see when the snarkiness started, and by whom. Then come back and tell me that I'm wrong.

Someone said - "It's immoral to be involved in a business that is designed to prey on the unfortunate."

That was met with - "It's legal! They're helping! Communist!!"

Followed by a lot of rolling on the floor laughing.

I used to think that the influence of people with subjective morals could be ignored, and that they'd learn - or die off. I know better now.

Ymmv.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 26, 2017 11:17PM)
[quote]On Sep 26, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
[quote]On Sep 26, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
It is hard to imagine in life you don't get punched a lot as aggressive as you are. [/quote]

Sure I'm aggressive - with good reason; but of course I'm the only one.

[/quote]

This is always hilarious to me. Yep "with good reason" and the famous "others do it too".

But no there is not a reason to claim non violence and all the arrogant nonsense you preach but don't practice. Words mean nothing without backing them with action. Your actions are what shine through.

And others don't claim the high ground you always want to occupy.

Like landmark for example. He seems to live his beliefs. I may disagree, but I still see how he posts and it is consistent with how he acts.

Your aggression is just so contrary to what you preach. It is stunning.
Message: Posted by: tommy (Sep 27, 2017 08:00AM)
What is going on is the governments get the people into debt, then raise taxes, cut services etcetera, then we the people go short and start borrowing and so now we a mountain of personal debt. Why philosophize when it is only the action that really matters. When the action slows down it is bad news for everybody.