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Topic: making a special pail
Message: Posted by: flourish dude (Jul 9, 2002 11:41AM)
I have this idea about doing a miser's dream with coins. I start by showing the pail empty and then go into the routine. At the end of the routine I would like to tip the pail over and have lots of candy come out//coins are gone.Or maybe turn into candy coins. Anyone know how I could make this pail?? Ideas?? I think it would be a wouderful routine for kids.
Message: Posted by: RangeCowboy (Jul 10, 2002 02:11PM)
I have an idea you can experiment with, if you take an empty container such as a tankard or flowerpot or pail and an empty 2-liter soda bottle.

Cut away the top and bottom of the clear plastic soda bottle and cut vertically down the side of the bottle so you have a curled sheet of plastic remaining. Now roll the sheet inside out and place inside the pail or pot and release it and the plastic will spring open and cling against the wall of the container. You can show the pail to an audience and they will see light reflected off the plastic but thats all. You can trap silks,coins etc between the plastic and the container. You could also paint the sheet the same as the pail if needed. Hope this instills some thoughts...
Message: Posted by: Ray Haddad (Jul 10, 2002 03:51PM)
The old fashioned method for making a clunk would work, too. Add a steel ball on a stiff steel wire to the outside of of the pail and drop it against the side each time. Adding a bend in the wire and a hingepoint at the bend will allow you to do it with one hand.

Fill the pail with candies, pretend to drop the coins in as you make a clunk sound and you have your pail of candy.

Best Always,
Message: Posted by: Winks (Jul 11, 2002 12:52AM)
Add a divided false bottom with a rotating cover which you can rotate from the bottom. As you rotate it open over the empty half, the coins fall in; as you rotate it open over the candy half, dump them out. The rotate the cover once more to clse the bottom. Whoever looks closely at the bottom of a pail - especially if there is candy left over in the bottom. :coffee:
Message: Posted by: Ray Haddad (Jul 11, 2002 03:09AM)
Any attempt to catch the coins in the pail and hide them inside will result in noise later unless you trap the coins individually as they drop and deaden each coin with foam or something else.

The best method is simply to have the candy secreted in the pail and fake the clunks with some sort of noisemaker.

I'm sorry to appear to make such an issue of this but if you folks want to become illusion builders you have to think beyond the visual.
When you turn a pail over, a secret compartment with coins in it is going to sound like a secret compartment with coins in it. It's unavoidable unless you can guarantee that each coin is secure.

The answer? Make a secret compartment with candy in it and fake the dropping sound of coins by using some sort of clanking device. It's far easier to secure a single clanking device than a false bottom with coins in it.

Message: Posted by: Winks (Jul 11, 2002 10:57AM)
Roy - first, you can deaden the noise issue with a little foam-core or some bubblewrap (one of my favorites). Second, you can misdirect by asking the kids to yell real loud and say a magic word and help you change these coins into something else. :dancing:
Message: Posted by: Ray Haddad (Jul 11, 2002 06:54PM)
You are making "coins against coins" noise no matter what you do unless you coat each coin with a deadening material. This is clearly impractical.

In my opinion, this type of thinking is precisely what I am describing as the wrong kind of thinking for illusion design. If the coins vanish and change into candy, there should be no noise whatever during or after the change occurs.

When you design an illusion, you must design it from the effect's ending backwards to the beginning.

Design it from the candy being poured out back to where you are catching coins.

Here are the steps:

1. Candy poured from pail.
How? Pail has false bottom or is never shown to be empty.

2. Coins change into candy.
How? Coins were never dropped into the pail. It only seems as if they were.

3. Coins are dropped in pail.
How? Make a noise like coins dropping. Keep the original coin in hand for producing over and over.

4. Coins are produced.
How? Various methods.

Covering for the noise by having kids shouting, making other noises or trying to pretend that the coins are caught in the middle of a change is just covering up for poor planning. Trust me, kids are much smarter than you think.

If you don't like the idea of having a gimmick attached to the pail to make noise, design one that will slip off after you are done.

I suggest that if you are learning how to design illusions, you learn to do it right. Learn from the experts. Learn from Alan Wakeling, Jim Steinmeyer, Paul Osborne, John Gaughan, Robert Harbin, Sharpe, Anverdi and all the other giants who have taught you and I the right way. Never allow your own personal ideas to become so important that you can't learn the right way.

Believe me, I learned the hard way before I started to educate myself from the writings of those giants who I mentioned above.

Message: Posted by: flourish dude (Jul 12, 2002 11:18PM)
I have been thinking about using the top of a chick pan. then finding a small pail the same diameter. after the coins I place the lid on and pull out a streamer or candy. I think I am going more towards the streamer side than the candy. I know it does not make sense to place a lid on but i am not sure what else I can do. If I used the chick pan I can place some felt on the bottom of the gimmick to help hold the coins but by pulling out the streamer the coins are not going to move around much. The problem with the chick pan it's not deep enough to do the classic holding of the coins. I could just use body loads but I would like a self working meathod. So thats why I was going to look for a deeper pail for the lid to fit onto.Any Ideas?
Message: Posted by: Payne (Jul 17, 2002 06:34PM)
OK try this,
Do it like a cone of flowers production. Make a shell that fits inside your pail leaving an inch or two at the bottom for the acumulated coins. Fill this shell with the desired production items and hang it behind your table or a chair. Drop the coins you produce into the pail. Finish with a big production of spring bills in such a way that your mis-direction allows the pail to go behind the chair or table for an instant to load the gimmick, Not hard if you know what your doing. Throw the candy out of the pail remembering to hold onto the gimmick as you do so otherwise you'll have the multiplying bucket trick. To keep the coins from talking pour an inch of Karo syrup into the bottom of the pail. This will keep them from talking and is also an aid in keeping the gimmick in place as well. :bigsmile:
Message: Posted by: flourish dude (Jul 25, 2002 09:48AM)
I have been working with the chick pan. I like using it just as it is. I do the miser's dream with 10 coins and a jumbo coin at the end. Then I place the lid on wave my hand over the lid take it off and a 4" by 30' streamer pours out. at the end of the streamer I have a 36" $100.00 bill silk tied to the end of the streamer---END.
What do you think?