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Topic: Advise on memorising technique
Message: Posted by: jmpmovadd (Oct 23, 2017 03:03AM)
Hello, I just begin memorizing Tamariz Mnémonica stack and I do it this way. I would like some advise to avoid common errors with nmemonics technics.

So, I already know a Major System (that is to says an association between numbers (00 to 99) and a word/object/character). When momorising my stack I associate every cards with the word/object/character corresponding to the position of the card in the deck ... e.g. the 4 of club is a "heap", the 2 of heart "a nose", ... the cards/number are "linked" through a "symbol".

IMO this advantage is that I can learn the stack order with only symbole (because I alredy have a Major System) so I do not mix in my mind the cards number (1, 8, 10, ...) with the number representing the position in the deck.

Also every cards is associated with a "symbol" so if I want to memorize any, say 5 cards, I just have to memorize a story with this 5 "items" in order.

DO yuo think this is a great way of memorising a stack ?

Thanks !
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Oct 23, 2017 08:16AM)
Ever hear of THE MEMORY BOOK, HOW TO DEVELOP A SUPER-POWER MEMORY, AGELESS MEMORY, PAGE-A-MINUTE MEMORY BOOK - and etc?
Message: Posted by: vernonscigar (Oct 23, 2017 08:24AM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2017, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Ever hear of THE MEMORY BOOK, HOW TO DEVELOP A SUPER-POWER MEMORY, AGELESS MEMORY, PAGE-A-MINUTE MEMORY BOOK - and etc? [/quote]

I never have. Can you tell me a little about them? Are they useful?
Message: Posted by: jmpmovadd (Oct 23, 2017 09:06AM)
So if you know this book, can you just say if I'm on the right track with this technique ?
Thanks.
Message: Posted by: alicauchy (Oct 23, 2017 11:44AM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2017, jmpmovadd wrote:
So if you know this book, can you just say if I'm on the right track with this technique ?
Thanks. [/quote]

The book describes, among other systems, the ideas you wrote in your initial post.

Of course, you have to invest (some) time to learn the system but, then ...
I learnt Mnemonica with the system in this book in just two mornings while attending a conference (using the time allocated to talks unrelated to my main topic).
Message: Posted by: Chris03 (Oct 23, 2017 12:53PM)
I see what you mean, but how much time you have spent for learning the system ?
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Oct 23, 2017 01:56PM)
Vernonscigar: Oh, and I assume that you also never heard of CLOSE-UP CARD MAGIC, THE MAGIC BOOK, LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Vols. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 - BEST OF FRIENDS,Vols. 1, 2, 3, JAW DROPPERS 1, JAW DROPPERS 2, ONLY MY APOCALYPSE, SPECIAL EFFECTS...and so on. All just as un-useful!
Message: Posted by: alicauchy (Oct 24, 2017 11:57AM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2017, Chris03 wrote:
I see what you mean, but how much time you have spent for learning the system ? [/quote]

Not much. Say, one week. And practice. At the beginning it looks (and is a bit) hard but, then, once you assimilate the system it gets immediate.

The most important part (and time-consuming for me) was to fix *my own* list of words and images.
Message: Posted by: vernonscigar (Oct 25, 2017 04:35PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2017, Harry Lorayne wrote:
Vernonscigar: Oh, and I assume that you also never heard of CLOSE-UP CARD MAGIC, THE MAGIC BOOK, LORAYNE: THE CLASSIC COLLECTION, Vols. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 - BEST OF FRIENDS,Vols. 1, 2, 3, JAW DROPPERS 1, JAW DROPPERS 2, ONLY MY APOCALYPSE, SPECIAL EFFECTS...and so on. All just as un-useful! [/quote]

I will research. I didn't see any of these on Ellusionist but I'll keep looking. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Senor Fabuloso (Oct 26, 2017 09:43AM)
Senor Lorayne many of the young don't know about you and your work. Please be kind to them. For those who don't know Senor Lorayne is the master of memory. He write many books and even sold a course to general people on tv. Please give him respect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MivC28jxf2M&ytbChannel=Becoming%20SuperHuman
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Oct 26, 2017 10:03AM)
And vernonscigar can even go to harryloraynemagic.com to learn about all that un-useful stuff. (What the heck does Ellusionist have to do with me?!? Or with any of my magic or memory-training books?)
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Oct 26, 2017 12:03PM)
Thank you, Senor Fabuloso. And thanks for your PM - but getting difficult for me to forgive newbies who want to learn and - after my about 80 years in magic and after about 30 books over some decades - don't know me or about me. Talk about fleeting fame!!!
Message: Posted by: Senor Fabuloso (Oct 26, 2017 01:38PM)
To me and the people of my generation Senor Lorayne you have been and will remain a superstar. Thank you for all you have done for magic and us all.
Message: Posted by: Sanks (Nov 6, 2017 08:49AM)
Seems like your approach would take some time to know instantly what card is at what number. IMO a good way is to do it by brute force, learn 5 cards a day. Probably learn the stack in two weeks that way.
Message: Posted by: ddyment (Nov 6, 2017 09:05AM)
Different people have different learning styles. What works well for one may be the worst possible solution for others. There is no universal "best" way.

There are [url=https://www.deceptionary.com/aboutstacks.html]four different ways to memorize a full-deck stack[/url]. Anyone having trouble with the technique that they are using should investigate the other approaches.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Nov 6, 2017 09:36AM)
Sanks: I, and people all over the world who have learned and used my systems can do this --- have a borrowed deck shuffled. Spec. calls off the cards from top turning each face up onto a tabled pile. When done deck is squared and turned face down. Now, spec. can name any number from 1 to 52 and you tell him or her the card that's at that position. Or he names any card and you tell him its position in the deck.Tha

The way I used to end it - and I've written about this many times - how it changed my life when I was doing table magic when I was 19 years old, in NYC. "Play poker? Yes. Favorite poker hand? Royal flush. Okay; which suit? Spades? Okay - look at the 7th card, the 21st, 33rd, 38th and 42nd." Spec. does to find the five spade royal flush cards.

Taught that in my first book on memory training - 1956. Forgive me, Sanks, but your opinion is not helping most, or any. IMO.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Nov 6, 2017 10:59AM)
Some time ago there was an article in the NY Times about memory training - no mention of me. And someone wrote to the Times - the last sentence being "Writing about memory training and not mentioning Harry Lorayne is like writing about the theory of relativity without mentioning Albert Einstein." There is an excellent example of that somewhere above (nothing new with this guy) - see if you can find it. Used to bother/annoy/anger me - now it gives me my laugh for the day! So obvious, so typical, so jealousy-ridden.

You would think that someone giving advice re: training your memory would be aware of the person who has written about twenty books on the subject - which are in about 14 different languages (that I know of) and have sold many millions of copies all over the world and for decades - since 1956. Be assured - he's aware!

You'd think he'd be aware of the person who the Times called "The Yoda of memory training" and who is considered the world's foremost memory-training specialist - and who has been on every national TV show all over the world - 24 times on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. But the great "helper" above pretends not to know that person - the person whose memory-training methods are used by millions - including people like ex-NYC mayor Mike Bloomberg, ex-police commissioner Patrick Kelly, Mel Brooks, the late Anne Bancroft, Alan Alda, ex.Sec'y of State Colin Powell, Dick Cavett, and on and on and on. Difficult for me to stop laughing --- but it isn't funny that he's doing the opposite of helping people. Okay; had to get it off my mind; laughing a bit quieter now!
Message: Posted by: MrEmagic (Nov 6, 2017 11:50AM)
[quote]On Nov 6, 2017, Harry Lorayne wrote:
The way I used to end it - and I've written about this many times - how it changed my life when I was doing table magic when I was 19 years old, in NYC. "Play poker? Yes. Favorite poker hand? Royal flush. Okay; which suit? Spades? Okay - look at the 7th card, the 21st, 33rd, 38th and 42nd." Spec. does to find the five spade royal flush cards.[/quote]

Memorising a deck with a certain technique might have some advantages, but for most magic tricks these advantages are irrelevant as long as you memorised your stack in some way or another. Most of the effects that you can only do with your technique, such as the one you described, are amazing memory tricks, but I wouldn't consider them magical. The only 'magic' effect that I'd consider can be done with your system is being able to tell which cards are missing in a shuffled deck of cards.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Nov 6, 2017 12:01PM)
Sorry but you're "losing" me. Yes; you can do "effects" - obviously - but I thought we were discussing TIME elements. Particularly since someone really thinks that memorizing a stack - position of each card in the deck - takes about two weeks. PLEASE! You're really being just as "helpful" as the person I speak about above. And if you want to do the "magic" (which I still present as MEMORY) of one missing card in a deck - that'd be my THE EPITOME LOCATION - which does NOT entail memory. Why do I have the feeling that you never even HEARD of it!?!

My systems may have "some advantages"? Those advantages are "irrevelant"? What a great help you're being to all. Unless of course you're kidding, right?

(I'm continually amazed by the FONT OF KNOWLEDGE exhibited in some threads here!!)
Message: Posted by: MrEmagic (Nov 6, 2017 12:55PM)
I stand with my previous post that the technique by which you memorise a deck doesn't matter for most magic effects, so find the technique that works best for you. If you're looking for a fun way to test how good you know your stack, I'd suggest the Stack Master app.

To keep this thread from unnecesary drama I won't say too much about the previous post, which is unnecesary attacking, but I do find it rather funny that accusations of being unhelpful are coming from a person who advised to 'learn some impromptu card efects' on a thread asking about tricks with a memorised stack Smile.
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Nov 6, 2017 01:08PM)
And what's wrong with that? Anyone - over the quite a few decades - who've come to me to learn, for advice, whatever - I've told them, taught them, THAT. LEARN HOW TO DO "MIRACLES" WITH A BORROWED, SHUFFLED, DECK. I've received MILLIONS of thank you's about that advice.

But, hey, if that doesn't work for you, that's fine. My cliché - TO EACH HIS OWN. Most of the stuff in my quite a few books for the magic fraternity teach 99.9 percent impromptu "jaw droppers." I'd almost be willing to bet that you don't even know about them or have ever even purchased one - and that's fine. Obviously, again, stick to what you know - "to each his own." The only thing that bothers me is when unknowledgeable people try to teach. That's so wrong. IN MY OBVIOUSLY BIASED OPINION.

And I don't bother with memdeck stuff for a variety of reasons - mainly because I do NOT carry my own decks. And second on that list is - I'm willing to bet that there's no trick that can be done with a stacked deck that I can't get a better "jaw dropping" reaction from laymen with an impromptu "jaw dropper" WITH THEIR DECK.
Message: Posted by: JBSmith1978 (Nov 6, 2017 02:13PM)
There are various systems to either help one memorize, as well as stacks that have embedded structures to facilitate learning.
The nice thing about mnemonic systems is that one has another tool that translates to other areas. Not just magic, but all walks of life.

Memorized deck magic paired with impromptu card effects can also help one track initial to end states. As in to see how a deck transforms in the process.

Best,
Jed
Message: Posted by: Harry Lorayne (Nov 6, 2017 03:33PM)
My books on memory training certainly didn't "forcus" on memorizing cards. That was just one of the sort-of giveaways in my books. Basically, and IMPORTANTLY, my books give you a memory - in all areas - that you never dreamed possible! Most teach for all general areas - but some are specifically "geared." For example, SUPER MEMORY-SUPER STUDENT! specifically for school students ("There is no learning without memory") - and I don't teach playing card memory in that book. AGELESS MEMORY is geared toward older people - people with my color hair! Same basic systems - but also solves .- how to remember when (and if) you took your pill(s). And etc.

"Memorized deck magic paired with impromptu card effects can also help one track initial to end states. As in to see how a deck transforms in the process." What??!!??