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Topic: Erotic magic is it ok?
Message: Posted by: Senor Fabuloso (Oct 28, 2017 06:46AM)
I see sometimes magicians say not good to do magic with things like sponge whatever or bra trick. When I was the young I did them all the time. I even buy a book "Sexy Magic". So is it wrong to do this kind of things with adult people? I think it's ok but why so many magicians say no?
Message: Posted by: danaruns (Oct 28, 2017 08:38PM)
Generally, no, you shouldn't do it. It comes off as cheap, juvenile, crass and even disgusting. Not fun or funny. Especially when men do it. Women can get away with it a bit more. "Blue" magic is best when it just hints and winks at sexuality, and let's the audience draw the dirty conclusion. Like with Cody Fisher's 3 Ropes and 1000 Laughs version of professor's nightmare. Or Wayne Dobson's Sexting. These are suggestive, not overtly sexual, and they let the audience make the sexual conclusions in their own minds, without the crassness of bra tricks or rubber dongs.

Besides, it kind of says your magic or performance aren't strong enough to stand on their own.
Message: Posted by: thatmichaelguy (Oct 29, 2017 12:10AM)
I think it's important to consider consent as well. Are you performing in a space or environment where that kind of material would be welcomed by the audience? Then, maybe? I have a hard time imagining what those circumstances might be. Also, consider the consent of volunteers as well. Something that ultimately ends in embarrassment or a "gotcha" moment of a sexual nature without the volunteer's consent would be wrong (and very likely would alienate your audience as well.)
Message: Posted by: longhaired1 (Oct 29, 2017 12:11PM)
I'll go out on a limb here and say that eroticism and sexuality are completely legitimate themes for magical presentation, for the right audiences of course. I don't consider the bra trick or sponge dongs to be erotic, just smutty and crude.

Lance Burton's levitation and Copperfields water levitation were both very erotic.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 29, 2017 04:13PM)
Anyone ever see Heba do the Baffing Bra?

There are no hard and fast rules for this stuff.

In general erotic or not, performance that makes a spectator feel uncomfortable without consent is not right in my view.
Message: Posted by: Senor Fabuloso (Oct 29, 2017 04:45PM)
Danny please explain consent how? Do you have to tell them what you will do? Or is it ok to say can I do something that might embarrass you? Only if they say yes is ok? Yes?
Message: Posted by: Dave Scribner (Oct 29, 2017 05:28PM)
[quote]On Oct 29, 2017, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
Danny please explain consent how? Do you have to tell them what you will do? Or is it ok to say can I do something that might embarrass you? Only if they say yes is ok? Yes? [/quote]

You have to read your audience and know who you are performing for. In a family setting, you don't want to do sponge genitalia or bra tricks. In other settings, it may not be an easy thing to do. You must always consider who the audience is and will your performance embarrass anyone or be in poor taste.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Oct 30, 2017 12:44PM)
"wrong" isn't the right word. It's not a matter of right and wrong in most cases. Any subject is valid for artistic expression.

Context is important, as stated previously in this thread.

Think of this way - I once saw a performer, a balloon modeller, pull two people up on stage. One was a guy, one was a woman. The woman, he gave exaggerated breasts to, and the guy, he made a balloon phallus. He wanted the guy to pretend to pleasure himself until the balloon popped in a shower of powder. The guy refused and the performer popped the balloon. The guy just walked off and the audience didn't even applaud when the performer finished his "act".

Do you want to be the guy that, whenever he is thought of, people think of how embarrassing and uncomfortable it was to even see him or think of his name? To this day I am creeped out by balloon twisters in general because of this one guy.

I would hope you'd want to avoid that.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Oct 30, 2017 02:58PM)
Sorry there is right and wrong.

Doing something like that with kids in the audience would be just wrong.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Oct 30, 2017 03:43PM)
I said it right there in my post, "Context is important".
Message: Posted by: danaruns (Nov 1, 2017 12:05PM)
I disapproved of erotic magic in an earlier post, but I actually have a very raunchy "blue" act which can be done for the right audience. The right audience for my act is, for example, a cruise ship full of gay men or lesbians, who traditionally have gay themed entertainment in a venue of adults with a sexual-orientation theme setting. There are comedians who do sexual material for such audience, for instance. Doing it in that setting constitutes "consent." They know the kind of entertainment that will be there, and they go with an expectation that there will be strong sexual content.

For a general audience, it would be inappropriate.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 2, 2017 12:15PM)
That absolutely is consent.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Nov 12, 2017 07:02PM)
Years ago, you'll figure out how long ago when I tell you who I saw perform. I was in Hollywood and just decided to walk the Blvd. and check out some of the local talent in some of the small bar clubs.
I had a choice between two small bars. One was a strip bar, not my scene until I saw the Venue Board out front. On it read, Belinda the Magic Stripper. Well the Magic got my interest, the other bar would
have to wait. The show I saw was nothing short of amazing and erotic but very tasteful. I sat at my table just say 10 feet from the stage. Out came a very pretty young lady, boa and all. The lights dimmed
and the usual stripper music ensued. She began her stripping routine, but as she stripped she started to vanish. The whole act lasted about 15 minutes worth of dancing and stripping with a little bit more
and more of her vanishing. Just as the last glove came off the boa fell to the floor in sync with the lights coming on. Best act I've ever seen using black art, timing was perfect.

I left the strip bar and went to the next to see 2 goof ball magicians named Penn & Teller. After seeing their act I knew they would end up being famous, they were hilarious.

But the erotic strip show was very tastefully done. Just thought I would share.

Jake Sr.
Message: Posted by: 55Hudson (Nov 12, 2017 08:09PM)
One point that hasn't been discussed is your brand.

What is your brand image and does blue entertainment enhance or harm your brand? If you desire to entertain corporate clients, you certainly wouldn't want to be know as the guy that pulled the bra off a guest.

Hudson
Message: Posted by: StreetWalkinCheeta (Dec 13, 2017 10:10PM)
For a newbie, what is "blue entertainment"?
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Dec 13, 2017 11:59PM)
That's a term that refers to crude or crass humor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-color_humor
Message: Posted by: Senor Fabuloso (Dec 14, 2017 04:49AM)
I thought blue entertainment was this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOLBn8GKBlA
Message: Posted by: danaruns (Dec 15, 2017 08:11PM)
Here's an example from the news today about why erotic magic might be a bad idea. And I think many of us here probably know Voronin, and what a wonderful and kind magician he is, which makes this even more stark.

https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/12/14/25627463/teatro-zinzanni-audience-member-claims-performer-touched-her-sexually-but-without-consent
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 15, 2017 09:06PM)
Ouch. Yea that is sort of what I was getting at about "consent" and such. I am speechless.
Message: Posted by: Senor Fabuloso (Dec 16, 2017 05:49AM)
Not to disparage the United States but Europeans can still take a joke. The times however they are a changing. #Sad
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Dec 16, 2017 08:30AM)
Well when you look around and everyone but one person is laughing it is more like bullying or harassment than a joke.
Message: Posted by: Luke Jonas (Dec 28, 2017 10:56AM)
I think in the right setting and for the right audience it id fine. I saw a lady perform with nothing but a TT and each time she made the cloth re appear she took of another layer of clothes until she was completely naked, it was funny and really worked well.
Message: Posted by: Senor Fabuloso (Dec 30, 2017 07:17AM)
[quote]On Dec 28, 2017, Luke Jonas wrote:
I think in the right setting and for the right audience it id fine. I saw a lady perform with nothing but a TT and each time she made the cloth re appear she took of another layer of clothes until she was completely naked, it was funny and really worked well. [/quote]

I would post a link to that video but it would get deleted. Ursula is no magician but she did keep the attention of her audience.
Message: Posted by: Pop Haydn (Dec 30, 2017 03:45PM)
Ursula Martinez is a wonderful performing artist from London. She is not a variety performer.
Message: Posted by: Dick Oslund (Dec 30, 2017 05:19PM)
HeeHee...If I tried Ursula's routine, I would get a "fleeing ovation"! In vaudeville, they called it, "playing to the haircuts"...
Message: Posted by: Luke Jonas (Dec 31, 2017 10:41AM)
Magician or not she did perform an effect and turn it into a good routine which was tasteful
Message: Posted by: Ray Pierce (Jan 2, 2018 07:08PM)
I think the key to any fringe performing style is whether or not it is "appropriate" (suitable or proper in the circumstances). That is potentially a gray area as people's opinions will differ on what is appropriate and what isn't. I would suggest that it has a lot to do with the specific demographic's expectations. When you go to see a Friars Club Roast... there is an expectation of a certain type of material. If you do a 5 year old's birthday party, there is likewise a certain expectation. When you go to see Zumanity in Las Vegas, you should be well warned on the type of show it is. If there was a magic routine in that show... a lot more might be expected than in a more public show broadcast during prime time on a major network. Doing a salacious routine in a professional strolling setting would probably be unexpected to the guests and therefore not appropriate. If you were asked to perform for a Bachelor Party or something similar, there would be vastly different expectations.

I'm reminded of an act that played the Magic Castle for 1 night called "Mr Mystic & Vixon". Their act was perfectly suited for the stag parties they played in Montana but not exactly appropriate for the Castle, although once the word got out, it was certainly packed for their 2nd and final show.
Message: Posted by: Josh Riel (Jun 28, 2018 02:21PM)
If the routine is good, and the people know what they're getting I think anything (legal) goes.
But you gotta follow those fairly simple rules.

People pay money to have prostitutes perform, legally of course.

Comedians cross any number of lines (tastefully, always tastefully).
Having said that, I wouldn't find that sort of magic interesting.

What does Pop say about Morales? They're balast, you need something to throw overboard when things get too heavy?
Something like that.
Message: Posted by: Pop Haydn (Jul 11, 2018 12:25PM)
[quote]On Jun 28, 2018, Josh Riel wrote:
If the routine is good, and the people know what they're getting I think anything (legal) goes.
But you gotta follow those fairly simple rules.

People pay money to have prostitutes perform, legally of course.

Comedians cross any number of lines (tastefully, always tastefully).
Having said that, I wouldn't find that sort of magic interesting.

What does Pop say about Morales? They're balast, you need something to throw overboard when things get too heavy?
Something like that. [/quote]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/RBmFiAR.jpg[/img]
Message: Posted by: MagicalEducator (Aug 12, 2018 04:14PM)
Check out the current issue of Vanish Magazine for more discussion on this topic.