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Topic: Guy Hollingworth Reformation video
Message: Posted by: Yuji (Apr 17, 2004 05:14PM)
I heard there is a video for teaching Reformation. But I don't know where to order it. Please help. Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Morganite (Apr 17, 2004 05:35PM)
Hello,

You can't find it. It's sold out.
Message: Posted by: slydini62 (Apr 17, 2004 09:25PM)
I have the Reformation Video, and I put it on CD with Daniel Garcia's TORN. What a CD!
Message: Posted by: Steven Leung (Apr 17, 2004 10:15PM)
Saw it once on Ebay and the start bidding price is UK 195 Pounds. After that, I never saw that again.
Message: Posted by: MrBiddle (Apr 18, 2004 12:08AM)
195 pounds...

Wow!

And reformation is a [i]tv trick[/i], so IMHO it ain't worth it. ;)

But it's fun to know the secret of it---from DRAWING ROOM DECEPTIONS, which I take many of you already have.

:worry:
Message: Posted by: slydini62 (Apr 18, 2004 09:07AM)
IMHO it is NOT a TV trick!

It is a reputation maker for me.

I close with this effect and have won a few close-up contests with it in my act!

Spectator's jaws literally drop when they see this beauty in person! Worth the 195 pounds because it is VERY hard to learn from the book!
Message: Posted by: Jason Wethington (Apr 18, 2004 10:54AM)
I am curious as to why Mr. Biddle you think it is a TV trick? It can, has been, is being done in the real world. It is the most comprehensive piece-by-piece restoration ever created. It has become the bar for which all other T&R's are measured.

Can you give us a bit more insight as to your post?

Cheers,

jason
Message: Posted by: Geoff Weber (Apr 18, 2004 07:46PM)
While the Hollingworth video may be out of print, there is a video by Chris Kenworthy called "Free Formation" which, except for some differences during the selection and signing, is essentially the same handling as Hollingworth's. More importantly, the video can be found at an affordable price.

So between Drawing Room Deceptions and this video, you ought to be able to learn the Reformation. So even though the version I perform can best be called "The Reformation", I still adopted a few of Kenworthy's little touches that I liked, such as the way he turns the card over to show the back of it is nice.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Apr 18, 2004 08:17PM)
Why would something so good go out of print?
Message: Posted by: MrBiddle (Apr 18, 2004 08:22PM)
[quote]IMHO it is NOT a TV trick!

It is a reputation maker for me.

I close with this effect and have won a few close-up contests with it in my act!

Spectator's jaws literally drop when they see this beauty in person! Worth the 195 pounds because it is VERY hard to learn from the book! [/quote]

;)
Message: Posted by: toberman (Apr 19, 2004 12:14AM)
MagicChris, it went out of print because Guy sold it as a limited release promising never to produce any more. You have to give him credit for keeping his word. I am sure he could have made lots of money re-releasing that tape.
Message: Posted by: slydini62 (Apr 19, 2004 07:26PM)
I'm one of the original owners OF THIS MOST AWESOME video and I'm sooo glad he kept his promise!

: )
Message: Posted by: MJ Marrs (Apr 19, 2004 09:59PM)
It seems like Guy, unlike so many others out there, actually treats his word as his bond. I'm seeing less and less of this as the years go by.

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear!
Message: Posted by: Nash (Apr 19, 2004 11:35PM)
My brother, GO BUY THE BOOK.

Instead of paying 195 pounds for a video, you only need to pay 45 (right?) for his book that includes explanation for Reformation, plus all the unique magic from Hollingworth.

GET THE BOOK. YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED
Message: Posted by: Turk (Apr 20, 2004 02:14PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-18 20:46, Geoff Weber wrote:
While the Hollingworth video may be out of print, there is a video by Chris Kenworthy called "Free Formation" which, except for some differences during the selection and signing, is essentially the same handling as Hollingworth's. More importantly, the video can be found at an affordable price.

So between Drawing Room Deceptions and this video, you ought to be able to learn the Reformation. So even though the version I perform can best be called "The Reformation", I still adopted a few of Kenworthy's little touches that I liked, such as the way he turns the card over to show the back of it is nice.
[/quote]

Geoff,

Thanks for the very useful piece of information regarding the Kenworthy video. It is nice to know that an alternate source for viewing and learning most of the Hollingworth handling on this effect is available.

This seems a win-win situation for all concerned:

1. The people wishing to learn and master the Hollingworth effect will be better able to realize their goal.

2. The Hollingworth book sales are stimulated knowing that there is an available video aid that will assist in the learning this hard-to-explain complicated handling.

3. The Kenworthy video sales are stimulated knowing that this video will assist in the learning of the Hollingworth effect.

4. The smug holders of the Hollingworth video can continue to hold onto their precious artificially induced valued videos and let these videos continue to ripen into cult and collector status.

Mike
Message: Posted by: Joey Evans (Apr 20, 2004 04:09PM)
How similar is this Kenworthy effect to Hollingworths? I've seen numerous ones, like Ripped and Restored, Reparation, etc., but these didn't have the cleanliness of the Reformation.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Apr 20, 2004 05:10PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-19 01:14, toberman wrote:
MagicChris, it went out of print because Guy sold it as a limited release promising never to produce any more. You have to give him credit for keeping his word. I am sure he could have made lots of money re-releasing that tape.
[/quote]

Wow, you got to give him credit for standing by his word! Go, GUY!
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Apr 20, 2004 06:09PM)
Guy Hollingworth has another video, "Routines", that has a performance of Reformation. I assume that you could use this video, along with the book, to come up with a nice presentation. Since I am not familiar with the video, I am making an assumption.

The video is available from Hocus Pocus.

Amos McCormick
Message: Posted by: Turk (Apr 20, 2004 06:38PM)
Amosmc,

Wow! That is also great news. Now there is an actual alternate Guy Hollingworth video source for learning this routine. Hopefully, it follows the routine in the book. Is the Reformation effect on the "routines" video a "performance only" or is it an instructional video on this effect?

I'd also be interested to learn if his "Routines" video came before or after the "Reformation" video, and did the "Routines" Reformation have any (significant or otherwise) handling changes or improvements over the original handling on the "Reformation" tape or in his "Drawing Room Deceptions" book.

I'm guessing that the "Routines" video came out later because if the "Routines" video came out first. Then what would be the point or the motivation for then releasing a dedicated "Reformation" video?

Query: If the "Routines" video came out after the "Reformation" video and contains his "Reformation" video routine, did Guy violate his promise not to re-release the "Reformation" video?

Technically, probably not. However, if the material on the "Reformation" video is identical and is then compiled with additional material, from a practical standpoint, it might be argued by some less charitable than I that the Reformation video/material has been re-released.

Oh! The pain! Trying to figure out the answers to these convoluted questions. I'm going to go take two aspirins. Call me in the morning. I'm just glad that there is another Guy Hollingworth video source for this routine.

Mike
Message: Posted by: vwc06 (Apr 20, 2004 07:15PM)
The clip on Routines is performance-only.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Apr 20, 2004 07:35PM)
I wish I could be of more help. Since I don't own the video, and I'm not much of a card guy, I can't tell you what the similarities and differences are between the book routine and the video routine, but the video performance is described as "an unusual performance of The Reformation, his renowned torn and restored card".

Amos McCormick
Message: Posted by: Turk (Apr 20, 2004 08:53PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-20 20:15, vwc06 wrote:
The clip on Routines is performance-only.
[/quote]

Vwc06,

Performance only is perfectly fine and will probably be eagerly snapped up by the Drawing Room Deceptions owners who really wish to perfect this great routine. Releasing it as performance only is a good compromise solution to not releasing it at all and re-releasing the entire "Reformation" video again.

Mike
Message: Posted by: Pebkac (Apr 20, 2004 09:05PM)
Routines came out after The Reformation.

Routines can be somewhat considered a video version of Drawing Room Deceptions.

For those that cannot make heads or tails out of the English language in a written medium, Routines contains a performance only version of The Reformation and, alas, no explanation.

To consider the Routines performance a re-release would be overvaluing the clip. If this were the case, his performance of the effect on World's Greatest Magic videotapes all over would be of the same.

Also last I checked, no one has figured out Guy's handling from a video of the performance. Legions of magicians working on it came up with "their own variation." (Though, to be fair it can be said they were working on the Copperfield torn and restored baseball card.)

The written explanation of The Reformation is quite adequate. The video simply confirms that "Yes, you do hold it just like that, and yes... the audience doesn't see it."

The best torn and restored Guy has put forward is not The Reformation, but another one mentioned in his book. Less physical work, more psychological work, and greater conviction.
Message: Posted by: Micheal Leath (Apr 20, 2004 10:18PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-20 22:05, Pebkac wrote:
Also last I checked, no one has figured out Guy's handling from a video of the performance.
[/quote]

I have his performance on The World's Greatest Magic. After watching it many, many times, it can be figured out. Yes, I'm sure I know the exact method. Of course, only those who purchased his video or book should actually perform it.
Message: Posted by: MJ Marrs (Apr 20, 2004 11:04PM)
Trust me, you aren't going to learn it by watching the World's Greatest Magic. Do yourself a favor, get the book and the "Routines" video if you want to learn Guy's handling.
Message: Posted by: Pebkac (Apr 20, 2004 11:34PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-20 23:18, Micheal Leath wrote:
[quote]
On 2004-04-20 22:05, Pebkac wrote:
Also last I checked, no one has figured out Guy's handling from a video of the performance.
[/quote]

I have his performance on The World's Greatest Magic. After watching it many, many times, it can be figured out. Yes, I'm sure I know the exact method. Of course, only those who purchased his video or book should actually perform it.
[/quote]

Last I checked, only one person has figured out Guy's exact handling from watching a video of the performance. And that person is Michael Leath.
Message: Posted by: Micheal Leath (Apr 20, 2004 11:38PM)
I'm sure there are plenty more. Most anyone who has studied magic for a while should be able to. He does not use any "top secret", never before used moves in his routine.

[quote]
On 2004-04-21 00:04, MJ Marrs wrote:
Trust me, you aren't going to learn it by watching the World's Greatest Magic. Do yourself a favor, get the book and the "Routines" video if you want to learn Guy's handling.
[/quote]

So, you are saying that it is impossible to figure out? Surely anyone who has has been in magic a while can watch it over and over and figure out the handling.
Message: Posted by: Iain Moran (Apr 21, 2004 05:23PM)
I have Guy's Reformation video for sale.

PM me if you are interested.

Iain.
Message: Posted by: MJ Marrs (Apr 21, 2004 10:43PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-21 00:44, Micheal Leath wrote:
[quote]
On 2004-04-21 00:04, MJ Marrs wrote:
Trust me, you aren't going to learn it by watching the World's Greatest Magic. Do yourself a favor, get the book and the "Routines" video if you want to learn Guy's handling.
[/quote]


So, you are saying that it is impossible to figure out? Surely anyone who has has been in magic a while can watch it over and over and figure out the handling.
[/quote]

Yeah, and I'm also saying that anyone who goes outside and flaps his arms for a long time probably won't learn how to fly either...LOL

There are lots of tips and subtlties to be learned from the book. These little details might not seem important, but they are. Like Vernon said, art isn't a detail, but the details make the art.

Anyway, if you're up for the challenge of learning the routine properly from TWGM footage, then good luck.
Message: Posted by: Micheal Leath (Apr 21, 2004 11:23PM)
[quote]

There are lots of tips and subtlties to be learned from the book. These little details might not seem important, but they are. Like Vernon said, art isn't a detail, but the details make the art.

[/quote]

I agree completely. I only said that you could figure out the moves.
Message: Posted by: MagicAces (Apr 22, 2004 12:09AM)
It is true that you can figure it out from TWGM, but if that's the way you choose then your probably missing out on, for example, the correct way to turn and hold the folded card.

Even though I spent many hours, days even, getting the Reformation down pat from watching performance only, I don't think it's the way to go. I believe that the TWGM is good if you already know the effect; it shows you how it is supposed to look.

In my opinion viewing the reformation on the video Routines is not quite as clear as the one on TWGM, but I think it was quite clever presenting it the way he did on the boat.
Message: Posted by: Geoff Weber (Apr 22, 2004 08:25AM)
Very similar...

[quote]
On 2004-04-20 17:09, Joey Brummett wrote:
How similar is this Kenworthy effect to Hollingworths? I've seen numerous ones, like Ripped and Restored, Reparation, etc., but these didn't have the cleanliness of the Reformation.


[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Michele (Apr 22, 2004 11:16AM)
I got the video. It is not easy to learn. MUST practice, practice, practice.
Message: Posted by: MJ Marrs (Apr 22, 2004 08:43PM)
The routine is very difficult to perform properly (very easy to perform poorly), however, I think that it's one of the all time great routines in magic.
Message: Posted by: MagicAces (Apr 22, 2004 09:36PM)
I second that.
Message: Posted by: slydini62 (Apr 22, 2004 10:42PM)
I'll second that also.....
Message: Posted by: iamslow (Apr 23, 2004 03:14PM)
I Learned it from the video, and I got the handling down within an hour, something that I wouldn't have been able to do with the book.
Message: Posted by: Platt (Apr 23, 2004 04:03PM)
The question still has not been answered:

How exactly does Hollingworth's effect compare to Ripped and Restored? I've been told they're almost identical in appearance, but R&R is much easier to master.
Message: Posted by: iamslow (Apr 23, 2004 05:01PM)
Ripped and restored is more similar to John Lovick's reparation in handling. I myself have never used any other methods aside from Hollingworths, so I cant give too much info.
Message: Posted by: Alex Linian (Apr 23, 2004 06:50PM)
Ripped and Restored is not as clean as the Reformation. In Ripped and Restored, the pieces are placed in a pocket, before the restoration.
Message: Posted by: MagicAces (Apr 25, 2004 12:21AM)
In the Reformation you use each piece or that what it looks like when restoring it. It's so great the way he performs it, because you cannot lay the pieces on a table. Well, if you know the trick you'll understand. He puts them in his mouth and there in full view the entire time (each piece).
Message: Posted by: Platt (Apr 26, 2004 11:37AM)
So is the Lovick effect, which is sold as "The Reparation", much different from Hollingworth's?

They say in the ad that it's easier to perform and combines the best of Hollingworth's routine with Dave Regals.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Apr 26, 2004 12:08PM)
The Lovick effect stinks! You ahve the spectator sign there name in a little border area. In a true signed-and-restored card, the signature goes across the entire face.
Message: Posted by: Micheal Leath (Apr 26, 2004 12:58PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-26 13:08, MagicChris wrote:
The Lovick effect stinks! You ahve the spectator sign there name in a little border area.
[/quote]

Isn't that how it is in Reformation?

Also, "there" should be spelled "their."

Sorry, I'm having flashbacks from another topic. LOL
Message: Posted by: Review King (Apr 26, 2004 02:50PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-26 13:58, Micheal Leath wrote:
[quote]
On 2004-04-26 13:08, MagicChris wrote:
The Lovick effect stinks! You ahve the spectator sign there name in a little border area.
[/quote]

Isn't that how it is in Reformation?

Also, "there" should be spelled "their." Sorry, I'm having flashbacks from another topic. LOL
[/quote]

See, just the mention of Lovick made me go into a poor spell frenzy!
Message: Posted by: Geoff Weber (Apr 27, 2004 08:43AM)
There are some handling differences between Lovick's and Hollingworth's. The biggest difference is the third piece is not truly restored; it's a bluff. Personally I don't think this variation makes it "easier" than Hollingworth's, just less clean.
Message: Posted by: Review King (Apr 27, 2004 10:10AM)
I'll stick with David Eldridge's quarterly returns. It's the cleanest version I know.
Message: Posted by: MacGyver (Apr 28, 2004 08:59PM)
I think that the main difference between R&R and The Reformation (the only two versions I see as good) is that each piece in R&R VISUALLY melts on, where in the Reformation it is always covered.

I like the Reformation better; there are many psychological ploys in use.

I think that doing it face-up is a big difference, and also I like that you can show the card 3/4ths of the way restored before doing the last piece.

With R&R, I get the feeling from spectators that they would like to see the pieces more closely, because they know that the seconnd piece isn't really fused, I just feel that that piece especially is easily seen through.

With the Reformation, things are very logical; you only ever show four pieces, you can flash both your hands empty at multiple points in the routine, and at different points you can show the signature during the ripping and reformation phases.

Say what you will about other routines, but most piece by piece TR are based off of the Reformation, and none of the "improvements" are actually better than the original, imho.

That really says something about Guy's genious with the cards.
Message: Posted by: MagicAces (Apr 29, 2004 09:56PM)
Well said, Macgyver. His every move has a meaning, and no movement that he does is wasted. Even putting the pieces in his mouth you know every piece is being used.
Message: Posted by: M Pitcher (Apr 30, 2004 08:58AM)
I tried to learn the GH version. It takes some time to practise. The easiest to learn and work with version is for me is "Ripped and Restored" by Yves Doumergue
Message: Posted by: Yuji (Apr 30, 2004 06:03PM)
I got an email and offer me the video at US$90. Any thought? Is this a good buy?
Message: Posted by: MacGyver (Apr 30, 2004 07:32PM)
It is an AMAZING buy if it is not a pirated copy.

But my guess is that whatever tape you get at that price has probably already been copied. I've heard of prices in the hundreds for the video.

Remember, only 100 were ever made.
Message: Posted by: MJ Marrs (Apr 30, 2004 07:43PM)
I would be highly suspicious of a Reformation video (original) selling for only $90.

Guy stuck by his word, even though he could have made thousands and thousands of dollars selling more than the 100 he made initially. Personally, I wouldn't feel right about buying a bootleg. Learning from the book is tedious, but it's the right thing to do.

Who knows, though, maybe this video is legit...

Good luck.
Message: Posted by: magicmann (May 1, 2004 03:07AM)
I am lucky enough to have the original video and believe me there is nothing out there to compete with the Reformation.
Message: Posted by: sharpace (May 2, 2004 06:03AM)
I heard there is a Guy Hollingworth DVD forth coming. It is too good if Reformation routine also included.
Message: Posted by: Yuji (May 2, 2004 03:24PM)
MJ Marrs,

I hope it is not a pirated copy! As a Japanese it is not easy for me to understand and learn from the book. I must go for his video.
Message: Posted by: MJ Marrs (May 2, 2004 08:51PM)
Good Luck!

The Reformation is sort of like the cups and balls. It takes some skill (lots of practice) to do well, but it's so much fun to do.
Message: Posted by: MagicAces (May 3, 2004 12:15AM)
I heard Danny Garcia has a excellent version as well.
Message: Posted by: joseph (May 8, 2004 06:56AM)
He does. Torn is awesome, easy to learn, and my favorite so far.
Message: Posted by: ABlair36 (May 12, 2004 07:04PM)
Reformation was rated one of the 50 greatest magic tricks of all time. That includes Sage as well so that is quite amazing.
Message: Posted by: ljgrant (Oct 17, 2004 06:45PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-12 20:04, ABlair36 wrote:
Reformation was rated one of the 50 greatest magic tricks of all time. That includes Sage as well so that is quite amazing.
[/quote]

Who rated Reformation one of the top 50 tricks?

I'm not really disagreeing with you. I would just like to know the source.
Message: Posted by: ljgrant (Oct 17, 2004 07:04PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-17 23:15, Ambitious Card Freak wrote:
Saw it once on Ebay and the start bidding price is UK 195 Pounds. After that, I never saw that again.
[/quote]

What was the original list price for the video?

And how did those few who bought the video find out about it?
Message: Posted by: SamChak (Oct 15, 2005 05:30AM)
Reformation is truly Guy Hollingworth's masterpiece!
Message: Posted by: NiallTL (Aug 23, 2006 11:18AM)
Slydini62,
give me a copy!!
I'm serious.

F.D.
Message: Posted by: magicdudey (Aug 25, 2006 08:14AM)
Many many years ago at Ron MacMillians International weekend, Guy showed me this and did it just for me at the side of my car, out in the open under a street light in London and it blew me away.
I bought one there and then.
I moved house and have found it again.
I may start a bid on it somewhere.
Message: Posted by: celebrity (Jun 18, 2011 03:34PM)
A copy of the VHS is up for grabs on eBay ;)
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Jun 19, 2011 09:14AM)
When I have seen this on video (I know different then live) to me it looks "movey" even in Guy's incredible hands. A display of skill rather than magic.
Message: Posted by: Martino (Jun 20, 2011 03:25PM)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Reformation-Guy-Hollingworth-VHS-Limited-Edition-/150620689566?pt=UK_DVD_Film_TV_Videos&hash=item2311b1549e
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Jun 20, 2011 06:24PM)
That's quite a deal especially this side of the pond
Message: Posted by: Martino (Jun 21, 2011 11:45AM)
Movey or not, it's still, in my opinion, the best version of torn and restored card currently available. There are others that come close (Wayne Houchin's version for example) but none have yet raised the bar on Guy's original.

Incidentally, if you want to learn Reformation, buy Guy's book "Drawing Room Deceptions". Read the description through a few times then go back and watch either the Youtube clip from World's Greatest Magic or from his old VHS tape "Routines". You'll get it!

ljgrant, it was shown on the TV programme "The 50 Greatest Magic Tricks" which was I believe produced by John Fisher. I think the tricks were voted for by members of the Magic Circle or something?!
Message: Posted by: Xcath1 (Jun 21, 2011 12:49PM)
I have the book, read the description, seen the youtube performances, it is awesome but not for me.
Message: Posted by: celebrity (Jun 23, 2011 01:58PM)
The video tutorial differs slightly than the book version on one step. Guy does a great job of teaching it in both but the video made things a lot more clear for me personally. So far there are three people watching the eBay sale no bids so far ;)
Message: Posted by: SmittyWitty (Jun 26, 2011 03:49PM)
Bidding up close to $240. Worth it? For a VHS?
Message: Posted by: celebrity (Jul 9, 2011 01:17PM)
The Video didn't sell so is re-listed at half the price! :)
Message: Posted by: Steven Leung (Jul 9, 2011 08:58PM)
[quote]
On 2011-07-09 14:17, celebrity wrote:
The Video didn't sell so is re-listed at half the price! :)
[/quote]

not availavle for except UK... well.
Message: Posted by: celebrity (Jul 10, 2011 11:19AM)
If this doesn't sell this time round I'll consider shipping outside the UK pm me if your interested and I'll keep you in the loop!

;)
Message: Posted by: Kendrix (Jul 23, 2011 08:09AM)
What does that say about your ethics that you don't mind bidding on a "copy" of the VHS? I have an original of the trick and it offends me that folks seems to think its OK to pirate his work.
Message: Posted by: Zap (Jul 23, 2011 10:19AM)
Here's a random example of the legitimate use of the word "copy": "Pre-Order Your Copy of Star Wars: The Old Republic Today for Early Access to the MMO" (from GameSpy.com, June 21, 2011). I presume that GameSpy is not selling pirated copies, but are instead using the word "copy" to denote that the book mentioned is, in fact, one of many duplicates, as opposed to,say, the unique manuscripts written by monks in medieval times.

Presumably the seller above is using this word with the same meaning.
Message: Posted by: Savels (Jul 30, 2011 10:52PM)
Mr. Hollingworth has a lecture scheduled on Aug. 2nd here in Los Angeles at the Magic Apple. I hope he performs this trick at the lecture. I'd be surprised if he discusses the methodology.
Message: Posted by: Savels (Aug 3, 2011 11:06AM)
As an update to the lecture regarding the Reformation DVD.

Mr. Hollingworth did perform and explain pieces from Drawing Room Deceptions and did the same with a gambling piece from his show. Maybe a couple other bits. Upon request, he did perform Reformation and explained his history with it, but stated that the explanation of the method would take too long for the time allotted. He said he might consider in the future putting out another DVD with a revised version of Reformation....someday. Not sure if that is a priority for him right now since he is performing his one man show.

Very articulate speaker and definitely knows how to break down a method to the student.

He also displayed the most graceful and scary talented card dexterity. I was just thinking how many years of practice he must have dedicated to get to his skill level.

Savels