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Topic: Deadly Mentalism By Ben Rayot, and/or Pure Effect by Derren Brown
Message: Posted by: francisco (Apr 19, 2004 04:48AM)
Has anyone bought a copy of this book?
A few days ago I posted a topic asking about any good books for pure mentalism effects, and some very helpful person PM'd me and suggested this book [Deadly Mentalism By Ben Rayot]. I have looked into it as a good buy, 7 effects and they all look pretty cool, such as one which is described as 'Being able to tell a spectator what star sign they are? How about going into more detail and revealing the spectators birthdate ?!'

I am very interested into this book but it is £20 (inc. p&p) so if it is a flop I don't want to be wasting my money!

How about 'Pure Effect by Derren Brown'?
however at £35 its a bit on the expensive side!

Can anyone say they have bought or looked at either of these books?

thanx
-Francisco
Message: Posted by: Withnail (Apr 19, 2004 05:45AM)
Pure Effect is essential reading if you want to improve as a mentalist.

Don't buy it to learn tricks, buy it to imrpove your performance, as it did mine.

DM is ok, as far as a book of routines goes, some of it is really good.

So my advice would be look at where you are now, look at where you want to go, then decide what's best for you.

(Ps - they're both worth having!)
Message: Posted by: Karswell (Apr 19, 2004 05:50AM)
They are both very different. Any decision would have to be based on what you are looking for:
DM (to abbreviate) is a short booklet with some effects. The star sign effect you mention, without giving anything away, is of the usual progressive type which I would have to say is covered much better elsewhere(E.g. TA Waters; the underground collective's 'Sensory Projection'/panagram; Doug Dyment's 'Sign Language', etc.) and clearer in almost any source(honestly, it is almost unreadable in DM). There are some good ideas though.

PE is a hardcover book. It is more of a collection of short essays on different subjects written in Derren's personal style. Nearly all the effects pertain to playing cards - but don't let that put you off. Personally and for any mentalist, I find the discussions contain invaluable instruction, advise and ideas.
Subjectively, buy PE.

Nick.
Message: Posted by: francisco (Apr 19, 2004 05:55AM)
Hi thanx 4 your input guys-but can either of you recommend any books that a beginner in mentalism [me!] could learn effects from? I have just read 13 steps to mentalism by corinda and found a lot of sleights etc in it, but a lot of it needed specialist equipment. So is there any books that would use a lot of the basic sleights from 13 steps but has a lot of effects in it?

thanx
Message: Posted by: Withnail (Apr 19, 2004 06:09AM)
Karl Fulves Self working mental magic.

That's great for beginners with some great ideas.

Which (IMVHO) is what performing mentalism is all about.

From there, buy Corrinda's 13 Steps book, which is a must read for you if you want to progress.

This will teach you all the basics and groundings to start with.

From then, there are a million and one books out there - so find your style and pick a route but above all...

Don't forget to have fun :)
Message: Posted by: Karswell (Apr 19, 2004 06:12AM)
There really aren't many beginner books. I would have a look at Fulves 'Self-working Mental Magic'.
When you are ready to jump in a bit more, take a look at Mind, Myth and Magick - TA Waters. It may seem a bit more pricey - but its probably THE most value-for-money book out there for the range that's covered (as well as being an acknowledged classic).

Nick.
Message: Posted by: JamesCheung (Apr 19, 2004 07:03AM)
The purists will say Corinda or Annemann are the best for beginners and by and large that is true. However, I do believe that Bob Cassidy's Fundamentals of Mentalism is perhaps one of the best pieces of work for the beginner (his reviews and comments on the value and content of other works is invaluable). I just wished I had access to it when I was starting out. Terrific effects, witty and engaging writing style and invaluable advice from one of mentalism's greats. I cannot recommend this text enough.

MMM is a good enough book albeit a bit dry and the effects themselves run from being so-so to the odd extremely good (if presented correctly). It's really just a book of effects with little valuable instruction on mentalism principles or thinking outside of the effects themselves. It's more of a reference book than anything and as a beginner this is not recommended.
Message: Posted by: enriqueenriquez (Apr 19, 2004 07:36AM)
No one has mentioned Annemannís Work.

Iím with James in his praise for Cassidyís Fundamentals.

Francisco, you will find Pure Effect very inspiring, as well as Absoulte Magic, also by Derren Brown.

Try to study an undestad the thinking behind mentalism. If you really understand that, you will be able to do miracles even with a swengali deck.
Message: Posted by: mrfluffy (Apr 19, 2004 07:47AM)
Deadly mentalism has effects that are really just variations on other well known effects.

The star sign effect is just T.A Waters progressive anagram with an extra bit added.

As a resource it's OK but there are better out there

fluff
Message: Posted by: Xia (Apr 19, 2004 11:50AM)
Or even Doug Dyment, but lets not go there.
Message: Posted by: francisco (Apr 19, 2004 01:18PM)
Thanks everyone, from the information here, the two books that are now on my list of 'wished-for books' are

Karl Fulves Self working mental magic
Bob Cassidy's Fundamentals of Mentalism

Thanks everyone you have all been a great help!
Message: Posted by: Niko (Apr 19, 2004 03:53PM)
I think you should get a Derren Brown book too. Doesn't have to be now but wait a while til you get some money.
-Nik
Message: Posted by: Mark Roberts (Apr 19, 2004 06:20PM)
Have to agree with everyone on Pure Effect.

However, I don't think it's a book for the beginner.

As has already been mentioned previously 13 Steps and Annemann are a good way to get the basics. I'm a big fan of Bob Cassidy and Richard Busch has the ultimate take on peeks and billet work. There are others, of course, but I think that these are a great way to start.

With DB's Pure Effect you get more out of the book on advice on performing style and methods. Derren's work on the Verbal Card Forces and some embedded command suggestion routines are pure genius.

Anyone who has the book and has read the phrasing that Derren uses when flirting with a female spectator, will know what I mean when I say that the way the phrasing and embedded commands are structured is pure gold :)

I also have Deadly Mentalism and there are some good routines in there, although as someone else has already mentioned, they are mainly variations on a theme.

Francisco, if you are just starting out. Get Corinda and Anneman first. After that, save up for Pure Effect. Derren's in depth thinking on the presentaion of mentalism is essential.

After that, well... the world is your oyster..... and mentalism can seriously damage your bank balance :)
Message: Posted by: sir_hugo (Apr 20, 2004 05:34PM)
I found the Ben Rayot book very thin and very lame. I'd save your money.
Message: Posted by: gerard1973 (Dec 23, 2006 05:54AM)
I agree with sir_hugo about Deadly Mentalism By Ben Rayot. Pure Effect by Derren Brown is a much better purchase.
Message: Posted by: Bedford (Dec 23, 2006 08:24AM)
For the basics, Practical Mental Magic by Annemann is good, along the lines of 13 Steps. You can find it in paperback, if you check your local shop or look online. Also, don't forget that there is a lot of good basic mentalism in Tarbell, which is often overlooked these days.

Pure Effect is very good, but I agree that it is for those with a little more experience. Once you get the basics under your belt I would go there; also The Artful Mentalism of Bob Cassidy, Paramiracles by Ted Lesley, and the above-mentioned Mind, Myth and Magic by T.A. Waters.
Message: Posted by: mesmer (Dec 23, 2006 08:48AM)
Fransisco, if you are a Working Pro, You should aford to get both books,
£20 + £35 is not expensive for a working Pro...especialy if they are Busy!.....you may not need one of them at the present time, but you can accumulate a Great amount of Knowledge in terms of Presentation & Ideas....to put your act ahead of the game
Message: Posted by: LLL (Jun 29, 2007 08:21AM)
Pure effect is now selling for around £100 + on ebay... gutted I sold my copy for £30
Message: Posted by: Mesaboogie (Jun 29, 2007 08:57AM)
Why on earth has the thread started up again two and a half years later. Something tells me Fransisco may have made his mind up by now :)
Message: Posted by: bevbevvybev (Jun 29, 2007 09:02AM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-20 18:34, sir_hugo wrote:
I found the Ben Rayot book very thin and very lame. I'd save your money.
[/quote]

me too

also have no idea why gerard1973 dug up this incredibly boring thread from 2004
Message: Posted by: ChristopherM (Jun 29, 2007 03:40PM)
Pure Effect seems by far the more popular book; I guess one should make of that what one will, and leave it at that.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jun 29, 2007 07:03PM)
[quote]
On 2006-12-23 09:24, Bedford wrote:
For the basics, Practical Mental Magic by Annemann is good, along the lines of 13 Steps. You can find it in paperback, if you check your local shop or look online. Also, don't forget that there is a lot of good basic mentalism in Tarbell, which is often overlooked these days.

Pure Effect is very good, but I agree that it is for those with a little more experience. Once you get the basics under your belt I would go there; also The Artful Mentalism of Bob Cassidy, Paramiracles by Ted Lesley, and the above-mentioned Mind, Myth and Magic by T.A. Waters.
[/quote]

Just for the record, [i]Practical Mental Magic[/i] or its original version [i]Practical Mental Effects[/i] is not by Annemann. It's by John J. Crimmins. Crimmins compiled the book from writing that Annemann did in several of his publications, such as the Jinx.

This guy is not ready for [i]Paramiracles[/i]. If he can't handle the simple constructions that are called for in Corinda, then the Lesley material will be too advanced for him.

My own advice would be this. Reread Corinda. Learn one routine from it. Then learn another. Do this until you have seven routines. You will have plenty of material then. Learn how to do a Billet S----- and a center tear.
Message: Posted by: camamos (Apr 9, 2008 01:21PM)
I am a beginner and so it is possible that my question could appears ingenuous to the expert performers.
I bought Ben Rayot's "Dead mentalism". I think it's an expensive but good booklet, but I couldn't understant a specific point: to realize the first effect "ESPecially for you" the author writes that is necessary to draw some symbols on a card with a "white candle" and that during the conclusive final of the effect, "the white wax" of the candle remain invisible until the card catches the light. At last, the spectator will literally see the image appear on the card.
Now, I have never seen a design made by a candle white wax appear on a card on account of the light. I am not able to perform it.
Maybe Ben Rayot refers to a special wax light-sensible? And where can I found it?
Is there anyone able to help me about this detail?
Message: Posted by: beds (Apr 9, 2008 02:15PM)
Wish I could find pure effect for £35!!!
Message: Posted by: tmoca (Apr 9, 2008 03:10PM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-09 15:15, beds wrote:
Wish I could find pure effect for £35!!!
[/quote]

You could in 2004!!!
Message: Posted by: beds (Apr 9, 2008 03:15PM)
I'm still searching every 100 year old bookshop in hope of a 1st edition for £5 from a dealer with no clue, but doubt I'll find it!
Message: Posted by: close_up_act (Apr 14, 2008 06:55PM)
Kinda funny huh? I don't wanna flop $35 or whatever for it and a few years later the book is worth $100's...
Message: Posted by: beds (Apr 15, 2008 12:30AM)
Don't think anyone realised how big he would get.
Message: Posted by: RickDangerous (Apr 15, 2008 05:42AM)
Btw... have you seen this?: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Derren-Brown-Absolute-Magic-1st-Edition_W0QQitemZ270226812197QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item270226812197
Message: Posted by: beds (Apr 15, 2008 03:15PM)
Yea I'm watching it lol
not gonna buy it as not got enough cash but curious to see what it goes for
Message: Posted by: close_up_act (Apr 17, 2008 12:06AM)
Wow, I feel really bad though, I ended up buying this as a pdf file when it came out...i shoulda just bought the book when it was $50...
Message: Posted by: markthorold (Apr 17, 2008 01:22AM)
As far as I recall it was never put out as a PDF file.
Message: Posted by: RickDangerous (Apr 17, 2008 07:17AM)
[quote]
On 2008-04-17 01:06, close_up_act wrote:
Wow, I feel really bad though, I ended up buying this as a pdf file when it came out...i shoulda just bought the book when it was $50...
[/quote]
You've been ripped off!
Message: Posted by: birdie (Apr 18, 2008 08:16AM)
Is there a pdf file available? If so were can I get it?
Message: Posted by: close_up_act (Apr 22, 2008 01:09AM)
Wow...i know I got it.....a buddy of mine has the book and we compared it page for page...took a while to print out too.