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Topic: Rare books in ebook format
Message: Posted by: Raum (Jan 27, 2018 11:56AM)
What books would you like to see in the ebook format? Let's make a list for sellers, like trickshop or library, who scan, make and sell pdf. Maybe they can make something from this list.
Robert Nelson - Sensational Mentalism Vol 1-4
Baskom Jones - Magick
SUPER PSYCHIC-THE INCREDIBLE DR.HOY by John Godwin
Tony Shiels - Shiels effect
Unreal - Bruce Bernstein
Maurice Fogel - In Search Of The Sensational by Chris Woodward
George B. Anderson's Lecture Notes
Peek Performances by Richard Busch
All G. W. Magnuson books
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Jan 27, 2018 02:31PM)
Personally, none. Keep them rare, and physical, so they don't get shared around and ruined.
Message: Posted by: Jerskin (Jan 27, 2018 02:57PM)
I dislike e-books + most of those you listed aren't under public domain
Message: Posted by: the Sponge (Jan 27, 2018 04:53PM)
Some of those aren't even rare they're still available if you are willing to Pony up the money for them.
Message: Posted by: the Sponge (Jan 27, 2018 06:48PM)
Actually, only two of the books are difficult to find:

Robert Nelson - Sensational Mentalism Vol 1-4 -- STILL AVAILABLE $20 a vol
Baskom Jones - Magick --STILL AVAILABLE $800 for set
SUPER PSYCHIC-THE INCREDIBLE DR.HOY by John Godwin-- $26 used
Tony Shiels - Shiels effect-- A few copies just reprinted $35
Unreal - Bruce Bernstein--In stock at PENGUIN
Peek Performances by Richard Busch-- In stock at PENGUIN
George B. Anderson's Lecture Notes -- AVAILABLE for $8

Maurice Fogel - In Search Of The Sensational by Chris Woodward
All G. W. Magnuson books -- Already in ebook format, sold on a CD. CD now hard/impossible to find.
Message: Posted by: chmara (Jan 27, 2018 06:56PM)
I have all the original Magick issues and their inserts as they were issued by Bascom. After his death IOne of the problem with PDF know it took George at Viking a good deal on money to get the rights to publish -- AND a huge bunch of cash to publish the complete set in hard cover. I hope you realize that recovery of that investment by George will take a while to realize a sell out -- and the reduced price of PDF copies must be jealously guarded against.

Used hard copies of the others on your list are often available at good prices from dealers like Andy Greget, Byron Walker and H&R Magic books.

One of the problems with PDF is its easy duplication and pirating, and with magic being a craft of supposed-to-be closely guarded secrets, professional performers and collectors, while understanding the difficulties for the young hobbyist, try to be fair in setting used and ouit of print values to those with more than mere curiosity, something not easily understood or verifiable on the net.

Sometomes guarding secrets and methods is dependent upon print versions of the work being priced out of the reach of the merely curious. This has been our tradition -- and you can see that current tricks, books and props that become too easily availabkle are not valued, spread widely and fall out of favor from over-use too quickly to let them be other than a slight hobby amusement.
Message: Posted by: Raum (Jan 27, 2018 07:27PM)
I think if you do not have books for this list, you just do not need to post something.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Woolery (Jan 27, 2018 09:11PM)
Ebooks are a mixed blessing and curse. They allow a solo operator to publish his ideas (or her ideas) and sell directly. Paul Voodini comes to mind. Sometimes these ideas are really specialized and the number of people who would use them is so limited that you can totally see why a publisher would not want to print them up and a solo operator may not have the up-front cash to print a run of a real book.

The other side of it is that there's nothing but my own conscience stopping me from sending copies to all my friends, uploading to torrent sites, or selling them on the sly to folks who would be happy to pay me $5 for what costs $50 from the author. So, there's a trust issue.

I would love to see a lot of older material available in some form. Books like Mind Myth and Magick can be hard to come by at the moment. If they were out there as ebooks, it would be great to have that option. I own a hard copy, so I would not be a customer for MMM, but I think there's market potential. However, if asked, I would suggest against it because of the exclusivity aspect.

There's something rather wonderful about protected secrets. There are tricks I don't want to know because they are just too pretty. I may have an idea of how they are done, but if I am not willing to put in the effort to develop them, if I'm not going to perform them, I want to keep some mystery in my life. I think it helps me understand my casual audiences better if I do.

What would I want to see made into an ebook? New ideas sold by the originators. That's what. If things reach the point where it is truly impossible to get print copies of Magick, for example, I'd like to see efforts made to reprint, but at enough of a price point that only very serious buyers would get them. And that's not me at this time.

The list you came up with is, for the most part, not really rare material. There's no reason to sell it as PDF.

-Patrick
Message: Posted by: Samuel Catoe (Jan 28, 2018 10:11AM)
[quote]On Jan 27, 2018, Raum wrote:
I think if you do not have books for this list, you just do not need to post something. [/quote]
I completely disagree because what you are suggesting sounds basically like stealing from the authors of items that are not in the public domain. If the writers, or copyright holders, want to publish those books in ebook format then they have every right to do so, but for anyone else to do that just because they want to material available for others is not acceptable. ONLY the copyright holder has the right to do such a thing.

If you are suggesting something besides the illegal copying and dissemination of someone else's published works then I think you may want to rephrase your question because you certainly made it sound like you just wanted to give a laundry list of books that are currently available, for a lot of money in some cases, to an ebook seller to get on the cheap.
Message: Posted by: Raum (Jan 28, 2018 12:01PM)
I read a message from Chris from Lybrary.com in one topic, and decided to make this post, maybe Lybrary or somebody decide to contact the authorowner and make a pdf version from this books. Like George Anderson books for example.
Message: Posted by: Raum (Jan 28, 2018 12:08PM)
But I agree on 100% that such decisions it's a publisher and author business. That is why post begins with "Would you like" not "Must be", it's a list of suggestions. So, if you not a author or publisher, and just a another internet warrior without even a few suggestions - **** off.
I amazed by your unmotivated aggression.
Message: Posted by: Philemon Vanderbeck (Jan 28, 2018 12:53PM)
I'm an author whose works are available through Lybrary.

I realized that by making my works available via PDF, that it wouldn't take long before unauthorized copies of these PDFs would be available on pirate sites, for a lot less than even the meager asking prices that I had set and without a single penny going to me for my work.

Even worse, I've occasionally had inquiries regarding routines or ideas contained within these works, from persons who have even stated that they had acquired the PDF from a friend of theirs. I feel that if you buy the PDF, you do not have the right to resell it (or give it away) to anyone (unlike a physical book). In my opinion, you are paying for the knowledge contained within, not the medium itself. Once you've read it, you know it. Even if you've consciously forgotten it, it's still there in your subconscious waiting to be released with the proper trigger.

I do make exceptions for public libraries who purchase my works. If a person wishes to take the time to visit their local library and peruse my ideas, then I'm okay with that. They have invested some time and effort, and that's a fair price to "pay" for access to my ideas. What I object to is the easy access to ideas for little effort, and often obtained in a manner wherein someone else benefits from my labor (such as some pirate sites).

I agree that information should be available, and I don't like it when it becomes prohibitive to access the info. I don't particularly care for limited editions, and I like it when reprints are available at a reasonable price point.

Until such time that the access to PDFs can be carefully controlled by the creators, I am cautious about allowing certain works to be available in that format. I look forward to the day when we no longer live in a capitalist society, where everyone's needs are met, and we can all create and share our creations freely. But until that day, please give the authors (or their estates) their fair due. Or at least until the time when the work becomes public domain (which really shouldn't be too long after the author's physical death).
Message: Posted by: Raum (Jan 28, 2018 04:41PM)
Forget to add:
Real Mental Magic by Ormond McGill
Message: Posted by: Chris (Jan 28, 2018 05:43PM)
[quote]On Jan 27, 2018, chmara wrote:
I hope you realize that recovery of that investment by George will take a while to realize a sell out -- and the reduced price of PDF copies must be jealously guarded against.[/quote]
Only problem is that pirates are not stopped by print-only works. You can find pretty much any magic book on pirate sites as PDFs, even though they were never released as ebooks. Not offering a PDF version through legitimate retailers simply means you are making it much easier for pirates to make a profit. It is not the solution. A PDF can be priced such that the author/publisher makes the same amount of profit as with a printed version. I sell print and digital versions together at the same time for several titles. I think it is a much better option than print only, because it gives those who want the digital edition a legitimate option. Without it many are tempted to seek out pirate stores on the internet.

We have several of the Anderson publications as ebooks: https://www.lybrary.com/george-b-anderson-m-163920.html

And Devin Knight has built on some of the work by Manguson: https://www.lybrary.com/g-w-magnuson-m-505546.html
Message: Posted by: Samuel Catoe (Jan 28, 2018 11:36PM)
[quote]On Jan 28, 2018, Raum wrote:
But I agree on 100% that such decisions it's a publisher and author business. That is why post begins with "Would you like" not "Must be", it's a list of suggestions. So, if you not a author or publisher, and just a another internet warrior without even a few suggestions - **** off.
I amazed by your unmotivated aggression. [/quote]

Raum, as my signature says, I AM an author. I had more to say, but have decided not to keep feeding the machine.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Jan 29, 2018 08:56AM)
[quote]On Jan 28, 2018, Chris wrote:
You can find pretty much any magic book on pirate sites as PDFs, even though they were never released as ebooks.[/quote]

While many books are scanned (barely legible in most cases that I've seen), to say that any book on magic is on the pirate sites is just wrong.

I just did a quick scan of three titles on my book shelf, 2 mentalism and 1 magic from popular authors, and none of them came up. My library is by no means impressive or exclusive, either. I think there's quite a few books that are not in electronic versions, and probably never will be, because the people who buy those books aren't the types to scan and distribute them.
Message: Posted by: Chris (Jan 29, 2018 10:56AM)
[quote]On Jan 29, 2018, WitchDocChris wrote:
[quote]On Jan 28, 2018, Chris wrote:
You can find pretty much any magic book on pirate sites as PDFs, even though they were never released as ebooks.[/quote]

While many books are scanned (barely legible in most cases that I've seen), to say that any book on magic is on the pirate sites is just wrong.[/quote]
If you have been in the magic ebook business as long as I have (almost two decades), and if you have chased pirates for as long as I have, you would know that my statement is true. It doesn't mean that literally every magic book at any given moment is available on pirate sites. But if you search and look hard enough you can find pretty much anything. I have found essentially all of the Hermetic Press books and Kaufman books in various forms even though they have never been offered digitally. I have found Al Mann manuscripts even though they have only been released on paper. Before I digitized Magic and Genii magazine you could find these in various pirated editions. Don't forget that pirates move around and setup new shops. Not all can be found with a simple Google search, but their locations are traded and communicated by various folks in the magic pirate underground. We are also shutting down pirates continuously, which reduces the available pirated material. Trust me, pretty much every printed magic book has been pirated, and if you search and look hard enough you will either find places online where you can get it, or find pirates who operate without website and who trade in various other forms.
Message: Posted by: Senor Fabuloso (Jan 29, 2018 02:39PM)
[quote]On Jan 29, 2018, WitchDocChris wrote:
[quote]On Jan 28, 2018, Chris wrote:
You can find pretty much any magic book on pirate sites as PDFs, even though they were never released as ebooks.[/quote]

While many books are scanned (barely legible in most cases that I've seen), to say that any book on magic is on the pirate sites is just wrong.
[/quote]

What seems wrong here is that you have seen scans of books not authorized as eBooks by the authors or publishers. How would one have seen such books without having the bootlegs themselves? #NotGood
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Jan 29, 2018 02:48PM)
Because I work for a company that received regular reports of piracy and takes efforts to remove it?
Message: Posted by: Chris (Jan 29, 2018 03:02PM)
[quote]On Jan 29, 2018, WitchDocChris wrote:
Because I work for a company that received regular reports of piracy and takes efforts to remove it? [/quote]
Can you tell us the company?
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Jan 29, 2018 03:06PM)
I work for Ellusionist. When customers report piracy, I either report it to have it taken down myself, or I verify it and pass it on to the legal team, if it's not something I can report myself.
Message: Posted by: Senor Fabuloso (Jan 29, 2018 03:29PM)
Why would one need to see the scan of a book to know it had been pirated? Wouldn't the existence of the scan be enough?
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Jan 30, 2018 07:55AM)
Because if it's not actually what it claims to be there's no grounds for action.
Message: Posted by: RealityRocks (Jan 30, 2018 01:30PM)
[quote]On Jan 29, 2018, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
Why would one need to see the scan of a book to know it had been pirated? Wouldn't the existence of the scan be enough? [/quote]

Lol. Are you a mathematician by any chance? Just pondering the existence of an object might suffice in a mathematical proof, but try that in court my friend and see what happens...
Message: Posted by: Reuben Dunn (Mar 5, 2018 07:46AM)
[quote]On Jan 27, 2018, Mr. Woolery wrote:
Ebooks are a mixed blessing and curse. They allow a solo operator to publish his ideas (or her ideas) and sell directly. [/quote]

Given the availability of Print on Demand and the costs involved, I tend to disagree with this.

Amazon.com, for example, has a POD arm "Createspace". No cost for print, no miminiums etc.

If I ever got to the point of either wanting to publish any ideas, I would RUN away from PDF and head towards POD, better control, better set up.
Message: Posted by: Chris (Mar 5, 2018 10:30AM)
[quote]On Mar 5, 2018, Reuben Dunn wrote:
No cost for print, ...
[/quote]
That is certainly not true. Createspace and any other POD company charges for printing. And those charges are very high, because POD is much more expensive than a standard print run when calculated on a per copy basis. On top you have shipping costs, deal with lost packages, returns, errors in the print, delays until it is printed and shipped. POD has its place, but it is hardly a perfect solution.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 21, 2019 12:09AM)
I must chime in here. I have had several of my publications released legally through Lybrary.com. All of these are totally legal. Chris is scrupulously honest about making sure the right people get the royalties.

I am aware of sites that sell bootleg copies of some of my material. I don't need to have actual copies in hand to know that this is being done. My friends tell me about them. I know who I can trust.
Message: Posted by: hcs (Jun 13, 2019 08:46AM)
I publish almost all of my works on Lybrary.com. Perfect service and Chris is a man of honor!
Message: Posted by: asherfox (Jun 14, 2019 12:19PM)
[quote]On Jan 27, 2018, WitchDocChris wrote:
Personally, none. Keep them rare, and physical, so they don't get shared around and ruined. [/quote]
agree totally.
Message: Posted by: DrIlluminatus (Jun 24, 2019 01:12AM)
Keep the out of the hands of hobby people
Message: Posted by: ringmaster (Jun 29, 2019 02:34PM)
"It Must Be Mindreading" is page for page the best mentalist book, hands down.
Message: Posted by: docguitarman (Oct 25, 2019 02:30PM)
[quote]On Jun 29, 2019, ringmaster wrote:
"It Must Be Mindreading" is page for page the best mentalist book, hands down. [/quote]
Just bought a copy of this at a close out sell. Haven't read it cover to cover yet. But I like what I have read so far. Several effects have indeed caught my eye. Do you have any favorites you have performed?
Thanks
Phil