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Topic: NEWSFLASH: Copperfield Might Have Real Magical Powers (LOL)
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 21, 2004 09:49PM)
Have you ever heard some one say this. "Well, most magicians are nothing but a bunch of fakes, but that David Copperfield, man is he REALLY magic?" "I don't know, but I think he really has powers!"

Man, I've heard people say it many times, and it blows me away. What is it about him? Is it the fabulously concieved and eleborate stage illusions, or is it his voice, or perhaps, just his EYES. He has eyes that seem to be able to look right through you. (a genetic blessing in my opinion. In other words, you are either lucky enough to be born with it, or you do without. For one who chooses to be a magician, that could be an invaluable genetic trait, though.

Maybe it's his ability to "fly" like Peter Pan, huh?

So what do you speculate it is about David that he is able to achieve what the rest of us don't often experience: People believe he is GENUINELY endowed with magical powers.
Message: Posted by: The Wicked Mr. Grey (Apr 21, 2004 10:09PM)
I really like this subject. Way to go for starting it, daffydoug!!!!!!

Here are my thoughts (from a strong Copperfield fan POV):

I think that Copperfield has cultivated a legend status in pop culture and that people simply have no explanation other than real magic. I also think that its his persona and charisma that help convey the fact that he does real magic.

But this is not unique. I find that people have much of the smae opinion of David Blaine. I don't care what you think of Blaine, I'm personally neutral about him, he presents his magic in such a way that people believe its real.

Same with me. I like to make people believe in magic and I've heard from magician friends who do magic to people who have already seen me that people talk about me as having real magic.

So what is the key to creating this impression? I don't know. Copperfield jokes a lot yet people take him very seriously. Blaine is too serious and people take him seriously. There's different styles that willl achieve the same thing but there is one thing that they all have in common: a belief in real magic. I think that if someone truly believe in real magic, it exhudes in their persona. It becomes like an infectiuous energy that convinces people to think that you have real powers...... I hope you know what I mean.


Dorian Grey
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 21, 2004 11:31PM)
I'll really give that a lot of thought. The subject is a deep one, indeed. There is just so much to consider concerning this fascinating subject.
Message: Posted by: indridcold (Apr 22, 2004 03:20AM)
I think his touch is very magical, unlike alot of close up magicians who just click their fingers or wave a magic wand. His mystical presentation is just awsome, I love seeing him work.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 22, 2004 06:40AM)
Yes, his hand movements are very graceful.
Message: Posted by: ClintonMagus (Apr 22, 2004 08:59AM)
Still, the most magical thing I've ever witnessed cost five cents and a LOT of practice - Doug Henning's Vanishing Nickel. THAT was real magic...

Amos McCormick
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Apr 22, 2004 09:36AM)
I think it's his attention to details and precision. All his magic is choreographed like a dance routine or a skater's routine.

I've never seen him do anything "impropmptu" -- or at least very rarely. He is extremely aware of each and every movement; he leaves nothing to chance (which, I suppose, flies right in the face of those on this board who claim a magician must be "on" at all times). The result is magic that goes beyond "traditional" magic.

Also, he sealed his legend with the Statue vanish.

Having said all that, I think very few people actually BELIEVE has has "magical powers." I think those remarks are more a statement of the strong impression he has made on them, sort of like those who would say that Michael "Air" Jordan seemed to defy gravity as he went for the basket.
Message: Posted by: Tor Egil (Apr 22, 2004 10:54AM)
A lot of people really belive he has real magical powers. We all know that's not true.

A few years ago me and a friend of mine was watching a Copperfield special on TV. He was amazed, well so was I. He really belived that he had magical powers. I did not say any thing, did not want to rouin the moment. I still remember it today. These were his exact words. " How does he do it, where doe he get his magical powers from"
Message: Posted by: MichaelKent (Apr 22, 2004 01:35PM)
Starr,

I think you're right on target here. Copperfield is a detail freak. Everything, from lighting to blocking and movement.

Kenton Knepper has a great view of magic and acting. He says we pick up thousands of subcounscious cues from people that tell us about them. When someone is lying, they must lie with every part of them, or those cues will be picked up by the spectator, even if only subconsciously. So Copperfield, being attentive to detail, has covered any area that would be a "tip off" to the fact that he has anything BUT magical powers. He's 100% consistent in his character.

Now, about the people actually believing he has magical powers. Occasionally we do come across these people that believe that our magic is real. In college, I remember convincing a kid that I had "used up" all my magical powers for the day and therefore couldn't do anymore.

A lot of it has to do with how you are presenting your magic and who you are as a magician. In Copperfield's case, he doesn't come out and say "I have supernatural powers." He leaves it up to you to decide. Some entertainers (Uri Geller, Kreskin) are more blatant in wanting you to believe that what they do is real.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 22, 2004 08:30PM)
I once heard David disclaim any powers. Yup!! He actually did. I don't have the exact quote, but he said "If I had real magical powers, I'd be healing those kittle kids of cancer." And fellas, I heard him say this on national TV!

And the story that tickles me is the one about him cutting off the tip of his finger on stage during a performance. (If you haven't yet heard the story, let me know and I'll share it in detail.)

Anyway, he had the tip of his finger sewed back on, and he healed up nicely, and he said that God, who healed his finger, was the one with the REAL magic! I believe it was on Oprah that I heard him say this, a few years ago.
Message: Posted by: NFox (Apr 22, 2004 08:37PM)
I have not heard this story, could you elaborate?

Nick Fox
Message: Posted by: The Wicked Mr. Grey (Apr 22, 2004 08:58PM)
Nick,

Here is the exact script of the Oprah show:

http://magictelevision.org/archives/1996/oprah.copperfield.html

If you wanna go straight to the story about the finger, the go to find (Ctrl+F) and type finger and keep looking for the story.


______________________________________


[quote]
On 2004-04-22 10:36, Starrpower wrote:

I've never seen him do anything "impropmptu" -- or at least very rarely. He is extremely aware of each and every movement; he leaves nothing to chance (which, I suppose, flies right in the face of those on this board who claim a magician must be "on" at all times). The result is magic that goes beyond "traditional" magic.

[/quote]

Well for impromptu stuff... he does a lot of it when he does stuff for random people. I'm talking about close up. When he's at conventions or places like the Magic Castle or at Project Magic HQ.

As for his illusions.... no, there is not much impromptu but then again... you can't have much impromptu with large stage illusions. But he does have backup plans for everything. I remember reading an interview with him once where he said something to the effect of his having a Plan B, C, and D for every illusion he does in case something goes wrong. Now there's preparation.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 23, 2004 06:22AM)
That explains why he is doing over five hundred shows a year, last I heard.
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (Apr 23, 2004 08:12AM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-22 21:30, daffydoug wrote:
I once heard David disclaim any powers. Yup!! He actually did. I don't have the exact quote, but he said "If I had real magical powers, I'd be healing those kittle kids of cancer." And fellas, I heard him say this on national TV!
[/quote]

I remember doing card tricks on a bus. A woman asked where I got these things and I mentioned that there was a shop in NYC I frequented. She said; "There's a place in New York where you can sell your soul?" (Well, there are several actually, but that's not germaine!) I said; "Ma'm, if I were going to sell my soul, don't you think I'd ask for something more than the ability to do card tricks?"
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 23, 2004 05:53PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-22 21:37, NFox wrote:
I have not heard this story, could you elaborate?

Nick Fox
[/quote]

The story as he tells it goes like this: He was on stage doing a rope routine, and the scissors were extremely sharp. (Do you see it coming?)
Anyway he snipped the rope, and looked at the scissors, and to his horror, the tip of his finger was resting ON TOP of the blade. And on top of this, he was gushing blood.

He said calmly to the audience "I just cut the tip of my finger off."

The audience responded with uprorious applause! They thought it was an illusion! Part of the act!

He said "No. I REALLY cut off the tip of my finger!!

They rushed him to the hospital, and the doctors sewed it back on.

And that's the story in a nutshell.

Nice, huh?
Message: Posted by: Starrpower (Apr 23, 2004 07:39PM)
I twice saw him when illusions "screwed up" and I don't think he covered very well. Once he was stalling because the big "Sawing" was having problems (he finally did it but the timer clock was not working.) To fill itme, he did the "Traffic Ticket" torn-and-restored routine ... poorly. He actually turned his back on the audience and walked upstage during the "move."

Another time, he went into the Dot Card, not bad but *very* average. So, I guess he is mortal! Still, I consider him to be the best all-around magician I've ever seen.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 24, 2004 12:10PM)
Yup! If he can cut his finger off and bleed, that PROVES he is quite mortal indeed.
Message: Posted by: Joseph Martin (Apr 25, 2004 05:37AM)
In 1998, I saw him on a Spanish channel saying magicians are actors performing the role of a magician.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 25, 2004 08:03AM)
Well, that amounts to disclaiming any true powers, too.


[quote]
On 2004-04-23 20:39, Starrpower wrote:
I twice saw him when illusions "screwed up" and I don't think he covered very well. Once he was stalling because the big "Sawing" was having problems (he finally did it but the timer clock was not working.) To fill itme, he did the "Traffic Ticket" torn-and-restored routine ... poorly. He actually turned his back on the audience and walked upstage during the "move."

Another time, he went into the Dot Card, not bad but *very* average. So, I guess he is mortal! Still, I consider him to be the best all-around magician I've ever seen.
[/quote]

Those facts are very eye opening.

-----------------------------------------------

Quote:
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On 2004-04-22 21:58, Mindfreak wrote:
Nick,

Here is the exact script of the Oprah show:

http://magictelevision.org/archives/1996/oprah.copperfield.html

If you wanna go straight to the story about the finger, the go to find (Ctrl+F) and type finger and keep looking for the story.


______________________________________


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On 2004-04-22 10:36, Starrpower wrote:

I've never seen him do anything "impropmptu" -- or at least very rarely. He is extremely aware of each and every movement; he leaves nothing to chance (which, I suppose, flies right in the face of those on this board who claim a magician must be "on" at all times). The result is magic that goes beyond "traditional" magic.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Well for impromptu stuff... he does a lot of it when he does stuff for random people. I'm talking about close up. When he's at conventions or places like the Magic Castle or at Project Magic HQ.

As for his illusions.... no, there is not much impromptu but then again... you can't have much impromptu with large stage illusions. But he does have backup plans for everything. I remember reading an interview with him once where he said something to the effect of his having a Plan B, C, and D for every illusion he does in case something goes wrong. Now there's preparation.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Thanks Nick

I went back and read it, and was pleased to find out that I had the details down almost perfectly after almost eight years!!

Maybe my memory is better than I give it credit for.
Message: Posted by: MichaelKent (Apr 25, 2004 03:07PM)
I've seen some screw ups in the Copperfield show throughout the years, and have to say that if I was watching the tricks for the first time, I probably would never have been able to tell the difference. Offhand, the one that stands out most is in "Voyeur." I've seen it 4 or 5 times, and seen it screwed up at least twice.

When compared with our shows, however, that is such a small percentage! More than being meticulous with detail or thinking out everything in advance, nothing beats being able to perform the same show 500 times a year.
Message: Posted by: JAEIII (Apr 25, 2004 04:28PM)
I've heard David on numerous interviews explaining how he only did illusions. He never hides this fact. I think his exact words on one occasion: "I think calling myself an illusionist is being very honest with people." He went on to say much more explaining what an illusionist is...I don't have a good enough memory to type it out though ;)

I think people believe his powers are real because he has been dominant in this art for over 20 years. He was/is doing things that no other magician was/is doing. He has done so many 'firsts' that people can only assume he is real. Haha...I guess yearly tv specials help this. But who in the past 25 years has captivated audiences world wide in the art of magic? Sure, there have been two or three that have come and gone, but David has stayed and stands the test of time.
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 25, 2004 05:18PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-25 16:07, MichaelKent wrote:
I've seen some screw ups in the Copperfield show throughout the years, and have to say that if I was watching the tricks for the first time, I probably would never have been able to tell the difference. Offhand, the one that stands out most is in "Voyeur." I've seen it 4 or 5 times, and seen it screwed up at least twice.

When compared with our shows, however, that is such a small percentage! More than being meticulous with detail or thinking out everything in advance, nothing beats being able to perform the same show 500 times a year.
[/quote]

I am familiar with the title voyeur for one of his effects, but I don't recall what the illusion is. Could you refresh my memory on this one, and tell a little about the nature of the screw -up?
Message: Posted by: NFox (Apr 26, 2004 12:41AM)
Voyeur was the illusion in which DC took two beautiful young ladies from a bed, walked them across the stage, covered them for what seemed like 1 second. Long story short, they vanished and reappeared on the bed.

I saw DC screw up "Anthrax" (he dropped the cards). When I asked a [lay] person who saw the show the very next night, he said that he dropped the cards twice. But being a layperson he thought that it was simply something that DC did. He barely had patter to compensate for one dropping of the cards, I don't know how he filled time after dropping them a second time. Mortal? Yes. In-freakin-credible? Yes. Truly magical? No.

Nick Fox
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 26, 2004 07:57PM)
NFox,

Do you recall which Special Voyeur was performed on?

And also, what is the Anthrax effect that you mentioned?
Message: Posted by: NFox (Apr 26, 2004 08:18PM)
Voyeur was on "Tornado of Fire." And anthrax is a trick that he is currently touring with on his "An Intimate Evening of Grand Illusion" tour. If I remember correctly he has a few people on stage, one holding a box with a scorpion named Anthrax in it, the other picks a card and returns it to the deck. David fans the cards into a spiral, and clips them that way with one of those big metal spring clips/clamps. He picks up Anthrax by the tail and has him pick the card out. I could be wrong on this, but I believe it was invented by a Mexician magician, who still holds the rights to perform it in Mexico, but David has the rights everywhere else.

Nick Fox
Message: Posted by: The Wicked Mr. Grey (Apr 26, 2004 09:33PM)
As a matter of fact, David seems to be screwing up the Anthrax trick a lot. When I went to see his show when he came here in Toronto, he dropped the cards twice. But I throught it was still a neat way of revealing the card. Oh David when will you ever do something that's not impressive..... I mean... he's got a normal haircut now... what's next?!?!?!? ;)

Dorian Grey
Message: Posted by: NFox (Apr 26, 2004 11:02PM)
Although I like that he has a normal haircut, I still want to see him bring back his shiny silver jacket that he had for the Lear Jet and Statue of Liberty Vanishes. That jacket was the best thing to happen to magic.

Nick Fox

PS: Mindfreak, was he using the joke of "I am going to spiral these cards, yes spiral just like Martha Stewart's (or Michael Jackson's) career." I'm just curious to see how/if his show and patter evolve.
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Apr 27, 2004 12:18AM)
You know I find this topic very intresting as well. I actually know people who fear David (Im not joking) because they really think he is the devil.

Right now people are looking at David thinking he has real magical powers because of things like cutting himself in half and going to Hawaii...but back in the day they probably would have said the same things about illusions many of us "regular" magicians/illusionists do now...such as the Oragami, the Head Mover, Cardiographic, and even smaller things such as The Crazy Mans Handcuffs just to name a few.

The reason people think he has all these magical powers is probably for a few different reasons. First off because he has great showmanship, great lighting and blocking (as mentioned in an earlier post)...but the bigger reason is probably because he is the innovator of so many different tricks and illusions. Instead of doing something old, he is the one to do it first and make the reputation for the trick. If he got on stage now and did a Zig-Zag woman, I don't think many people would think he had any special powers.....but send someone to Hawaii and we've got the devil.
Message: Posted by: Daniel Faith (Apr 27, 2004 12:42AM)
YOU MEAN HE'S NOT?!
Message: Posted by: The Wicked Mr. Grey (Apr 27, 2004 04:17PM)
Hahahahaahahhah. (2 above post)


Nick,

He didn't say that no. He just said something along the lines of "I'll spiral these cards, just like this and...." (cards fall). hhahahha But it was cool. Many people thought it was just part of the show from what I overheard. Some woman was saying how she thought it very suspensful. Just goes to show ya.....

Dorian Grey
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 27, 2004 04:46PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-26 21:18, NFox wrote:
Voyeur was on "Tornado of Fire." And anthrax is a trick that he is currently touring with on his "An Intimate Evening of Grand Illusion" tour. If I remember correctly he has a few people on stage, one holding a box with a scorpion named Anthrax in it, the other picks a card and returns it to the deck. David fans the cards into a spiral, and clips them that way with one of those big metal spring clips/clamps. He picks up Anthrax by the tail and has him pick the card out. I could be wrong on this, but I believe it was invented by a Mexician magician, who still holds the rights to perform it in Mexico, but David has the rights everywhere else.

Nick Fox
[/quote]

So it's basicly the card finding duck plot, gone hyper modern?

-----------------------------------------

[quote]
On 2004-04-27 01:18, dovemagic9 wrote:
You know I find this topic very intresting as well. I actually know people who fear David (Im not joking) because they really think he is the devil.

Right now people are looking at David thinking he has real magical powers because of things like cutting himself in half and going to Hawaii...but back in the day they probably would have said the same things about illusions many of us "regular" magicians/illusionists do now...such as the Oragami, the Head Mover, Cardiographic, and even smaller things such as The Crazy Mans Handcuffs just to name a few.

The reason people think he has all these magical powers is probably for a few different reasons. First off because he has great showmanship, great lighting and blocking (as mentioned in an earlier post)...but the bigger reason is probably because he is the innovator of so many different tricks and illusions. Instead of doing something old, he is the one to do it first and make the reputation for the trick. If he got on stage now and did a Zig-Zag woman, I don't think many people would think he had any special powers.....but send someone to Hawaii and we've got the devil.
[/quote]

Well I guess that puts me in good company. I've been accused of being "old slewfoot" a time or two.

But That was just by church people. Other folks have been kinder to me.

If they think Copperfield is the devil, then I shudder to think what they think about Max Maven!

Anyway, when I was around those people, I had a pastor say to me " Copperfield is an EXPERT liar!" (well, DUH!!)
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Apr 28, 2004 02:00AM)
This brings up another interesting topic that I thought about posting on here before asking magicians some of the names they have been called. I, personally, have never been given the status of devil...(that must be reserved for Copperfield), but to date I have been called all of the following at least once; liar, cheat, evil, a fake, and my personal favorite, "Con-Artist".

Granted alot of the people who called me these names were the people heavy into church and all that, but some of them werent. The thing that really gets me, is the magic that I perform is mostly comedy magic and doves...which I think anyways is just pretty magic. I have never yet had anyone be really impolite or run screaming or anything, but there are definatly alot of people who hate magic and magicians or are scared of them. I think I can break them down into categories actually.

There is always the one who hates magic because they cant understand it - Im sure we all know at least one of these people...they sit around and make up the most absurd explanations for tricks and illusions because it makes them feel stupid or something because they have witnessed something they cant explain.

Then there is the person who thinks magic is the work of the devil - Once again I think alot of these people feel this way because they have seen something they cant understand...(these are the same people who burn Harry Potter books) Alot of the time you will hear them say things like "I don't beleive in magic", or "magic isn't real"...which I usually follow up with asking them what their definition of "real" is.

And finally there is the person who think all magicians are clowns - Some of you might never have experinced this one, but I get it alot...They think that only clowns do magic...not that there is anything wrong with clowning, just that there is a definate difference.

Im really interested in hearing other people tell some of the stories and encounters they have had with people...I don't know maybe I am the only one...
Message: Posted by: The Wicked Mr. Grey (Apr 28, 2004 09:14PM)
Dovemagic,

I too have theorised somewhat about this subject. I think you've more or less nailed it on the head with ur three categories. But I think that they can be refiend even more. Here's my breakdown

1) Realist: These people hate magic simply because they do not understand and because magic is something that completely defies what they have been taught to believe. These people do not take in the jo and wonder that is around us and they are very 'conditioned' by society.

2) Satanist: These people fear magic because they believe IN IT. Whether they think magic is good or evil doesn't matter. The fact is that they're scared of it because they believe that it can be used to harm people.

3) Childists (?): These people believe magic is for children. They therefore look down upon anyone who does magic as simply a stupid kids entertainer. Not necessarily clowns.. but they do not take it seriously.

4) Liars: These people think magicians are all liars and should be treated as such. These are the worst hecklers. Horrbile. They often feel the need to try to screw a magician up just for the hell of it and to prove to others that they are better than the magician.

I too have been called many names due to my magic. Especially because I do a lot of magic that is not necessarily 'preety magic' (more like... shock magic) and because of the fact that I present my magic as being completely real. No tricks no nothing. Just real. I don't come out and say it but my attitude and character when I do magic convey this very effectively.

I have been called a demon, a devil worshipper, a con-artist, a charlatan, a liar, a guru, a highly meditative man, an angel, a paradox... (I'm most proud of that last one. I don't understand it myself....)

Dorian Grey
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 28, 2004 09:48PM)
The last two posts are two of the most insightful and enlightening that I have yet heard on this Café'.
Message: Posted by: latentimage (Apr 29, 2004 12:41AM)
Thanks you very much for the compliment daffydoug. I like MindFreaks categories alot too. Through the several years that I have been performing magic, I have always wanted to be somewhere where I could let that off of my chest to other magicians...thanks for the opportunity :)
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (Apr 29, 2004 07:07PM)
You're welcome. I'm a smarter magician after reading it!
Message: Posted by: The Wicked Mr. Grey (Apr 29, 2004 08:52PM)
Thanks as well.....

If you're truly a smarter magician after reading that, then I guess dovemagic and I have done our theorizing properley. So if it helps, then I'm glad I wrote it.

Dorian Grey
Message: Posted by: daffydoug (May 1, 2004 08:15AM)
Well, if not smarter, then surely WISER and more well informed!
Message: Posted by: MichaelKent (May 6, 2004 04:32PM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-25 18:18, daffydoug wrote:

I am familiar with the title voyeur for one of his effects, but I don't recall what the illusion is. Could you refresh my memory on this one, and tell a little about the nature of the screw -up?
[/quote]

On the road, he eventually scaled this down to the vanish of one girl instead of two. But the part where it went wrong was the vanish. She just stood there forever, waiting for <insert method here> and it didn't happen, so she moved to the wings, threw up the cloth and jumped offstage! I'm serious! The second time this happened that I saw, she eventually was able to vanish like normal, but had to wait a LONG time.

As far as the scorpion trick, I'm convinced that dropping the cards is somehow part of the bit. I say this because it happened when I saw the bit, both in Las Vegas and in Columbus.

But think about it, when he dropped the cards, didn't it make you a bit nervous and anxious? And isn't that exactly how David wants you to feel during the trick?
Message: Posted by: NFox (May 6, 2004 06:54PM)
Everyone there kept screaming, "Watch the scorpion!" when he dropped the cards. That still doesn't explain why he has dropped the cards as many as 3 times, and why he never seems to drop them at the same time each show. I would expect that with someone as well timed as DC there would be some consistency to when he does something that big. And having personal experience with it, I saw [i]the look[/i], you know the one, the look that says, "Oh poo!" But hey I have been wrong in the past.

Nick Fox
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (May 17, 2004 10:41AM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-28 03:00, dovemagic9 wrote:
This brings up another interesting topic that I thought about posting on here before asking magicians some of the names they have been called. I, personally, have never been given the status of devil...(that must be reserved for Copperfield), but to date I have been called all of the following at least once; liar, cheat, evil, a fake, and my personal favorite, "Con-Artist".
[/quote]

I've already mentioned the lady on the bus. (Although she didn't call me anything; she just thought I'd sold my soul to Satan.) I remember doing stuff at our local community theatre and having one of the actors turn to my wife and say, "So, what's it like being married to a spawn of Satan?" We laughed, but he didn't and as I recall, he didn't talk to either of us a lot after that!