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Topic: Scott Tokar - How to Make 6 Figures in Magic
Message: Posted by: Joe S. (May 31, 2018 02:36PM)
If you didn't hear the news... Ellusionist just released "How to Make 6 Figures in Magic" by Scott Tokar.

I'm going to come right out and say it: I REALLY hope this project gets into the hands of those who need it. Scott has given me some incredible advice over the years, and he knows the BUSINESS of magic better than almost anyone.

I was in the audience during the taped lecture segment and I believe this course could change some lives for the better:

For magicians just starting out, this could save them YEARS of trial and error. And for successful magicians, the low price makes it a total no brainer. For just a few hundred bucks, you get 18 HOURS of video instruction, contract templates, and much more.

One thing I'm personally looking forward to in this are the interviews. Scott doesn’t pretend to know everything about every magic specialty. So he finds the experts who specialize in areas he doesn't:

Scott hasn't worked cruise ships in years... so he interviews Levent.
For the business of kid shows... he interviews David Kaye.
The business of Bar Magic? Doc Eason
Street magic? Kozmo.
And on and on...

I think we all know magicians who want to do better, but just don't know how. They usually stop by this forum. I hope this helps: https://www.ellusionist.com/how-to-make-6-figures-in-magic.html

PS: There are no affiliate links in this message. I believe a rising tide lifts all boats.
Message: Posted by: the Sponge (May 31, 2018 03:39PM)
Are you his client?
How much focus is tradeshow?
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (May 31, 2018 03:48PM)
There's two "segments" focused on Scott. One is his live lecture (which Joe referenced above), one is Scott talking to the camera.

The one of Scott speaking to the camera is about 3 hours total, and applies to all kinds of performance - not just trade show.

Then considering there's 13 videos which are interviews with other top professionals, mostly around 40-60 minutes as I recall. Each of those focus on the specialty of the person being interviewed. Doc Eason talks bar magic, David Kaye talks children's magic, Garrett Thomas talks restaurants, etc.

I'm not sure how long the live lecture footage is, but it's split into 4 videos.

There is a ton of information from real world experience here.
Message: Posted by: Jerskin (May 31, 2018 04:57PM)
Scott is a friend of mine and although I haven't seen this, I know how much he works.
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (May 31, 2018 05:45PM)
I have nothing to do with the course or Scott. But I do have a personal experience with him. I've seen him 3 times work at the Castle. Each time he impressed me when he went to his spiel on how he works trade shows. In two of the shows he had anyone call out either a product they like or something they are trying to promote.

I believe in one show the person picked a laundry detergent. He then asked for the person to give details of why he like that particular product. Without a pause, Scott went into a Professor's Nightmare routine mixed with a Ring & Rope segment and instantly worked in all the things about the product that was shouted out by the spectator.

Now, maybe being wary of it being perfect, it just so happened that about a year later Scott worked at the Castle again... the close up room. When he asked if anyone had a product they wanted to pitch I raised my hand. At the time I was promoting and trying to sell my film DEN. I gave him a brief synopsis of the film and what my intent was on making it and selling it.

BOOM! He went right into that combo routine and everything he said fit with what I had just said. It was amazing!!! I was stunned on how easily he made all my facts flow into his routine.

So if his course can get you to be even one-tenth as good as pitching products that way then it's well worth it.

Greg
Message: Posted by: Joe S. (May 31, 2018 07:57PM)
Hey Sponge,

Scott didn't go in depth on trade shows in the lecture portion that I attended. I assume he addresses that in the "talking to the camera" bit of the course, but I don't know yet.

Is that a specific venue you work? I've seen Scott in action enough trade shows to know he's insanely good in that venue. He's hired me a few times, and I think I once hired him to work a corporate strolling gig with me.

He's working the Castle this weekend, and I'll probably stop by and say hi. I'm not involved with the project but I'd definitely call Scott a friend. :-)
Message: Posted by: Oscar999 (Jun 1, 2018 08:42AM)
I've seen the "talking to the camera" portion and I can say Scott delivered a ton of great information about the business of magic. He did not focus on trade show or corporate, but did draw from his real world experience for examples whenever appropriate. I found a lot of great value in that presentation - which had the feeling of Scott sitting across the table, giving you advice on how to take your magic business to the next level. Very well done.

I just started the portion of the lecture he gave in Hollywood. It's accompanied with a slide presentation (also included separately with the bonus items). During the second of what appears to be about a 3 1/2 to 4 hour lecture he dropped a tip about the kinds of businesses that might be good for him to approach that I've NEVER heard before. I can tell you there are gems among the very solid info he's relaying. I'm very happy with this purchase.

... BTW Joe, I read your wife's book, Club Deception - Awesome story... a great little murder mystery with a tie-in to one of the most legendary magic books of all time.

Oscar
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 1, 2018 09:57AM)
Out of curiosity when you say he delivered a ton of good information what do you mean? Is it information you have implemented? What made the information good to you?

I don't mean give me the exact thing. In bit looking for a short cut, but trying to understand what you mean is all.
Message: Posted by: Oscar999 (Jun 1, 2018 11:42AM)
By good, I mean it resonated with me as sound business advice.

Oscar
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jun 1, 2018 12:16PM)
Thank you.
Message: Posted by: Joe S. (Jun 1, 2018 04:53PM)
Thanks Oscar!

Really appreciate the kind words. I'm a fan of my wife as well. ;-)
Message: Posted by: charliecheckers (Jun 2, 2018 12:40PM)
Thanks for sharing the link to this product. It seems like it may provide good general information and offers what looks like interesting interviews. I think if one is serious about earning six figures though, they should go into it with the mind set that this is perhaps a start and that they will likely benefit from advice much more focused and detailed on their specific cirumstances regarding markets, talents, interests and lifestyle desires. These factors will greatly influence ones business model.

One criticism I have of the ad copy is the very first sentence that reads:
“Scott Tokar is one of the elite income-producing magicians in the world today, consistently earning far over $???,000 a year (We can't give you his actual figures for obvious reasons, and even if we could, you'd never believe us)”.
To me, this is a big turn off and makes me wonder if his style might clash with my own regarding marketing techniques. I’m not sure if it is meant to be tongue in cheek or not, but that alone is a problem. Even if it is, it’s not the place to do so. Anyway, the price is reasonable and reviews of those who have purchased it should be considered, but in the context of specific detailed benefits they share -not so much the general positive or negative comments.
Message: Posted by: Nash (Jun 2, 2018 03:09PM)
From just looking at the trailer, this seems like a really good course for anyone who wants to get started with their careers. Lots of good tidbits from people that have actually done it.
I was lucky to have people in my region that's been doing magic full time for years to get my feet wet; for those who don't have that luxury, this is great.
And if he covers how to secure a client on the phone as described, that alone is a valuable skill to learn that'll be worth the price of admission.
Message: Posted by: Sparda (Jun 12, 2018 10:41AM)
Would this course be good for someone like myself that doesn't do magic full time?
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Jun 12, 2018 10:52AM)
It's good for anyone who wants to run their magic business, as a business. Whether that's a part time business or a full time business, the tips and systems they talk about will work. However, it is geared towards people who are wanting to do this full time. As with any real business system, you'll have to adjust it to your specific needs and market.
Message: Posted by: Sparda (Jun 14, 2018 02:04PM)
Thank you!
Message: Posted by: Bill Hegbli (Jun 14, 2018 03:59PM)
I would like to hear from someone who has invested in Scott Tokar motivational material and made a 6 figure income. A copy of your tax return would be helpful.

For me, if you know the guy, friends with the guy, like how he looks and speaks, has nothing to do with the material and information. If you can walk out of an seminar and be on your way to a 6 figure income, that is what is being sold. Does it deliver? I doubt it, and I would bet, that there is not one person that has accomplished a 6 figure income from the lectures or seminars.

Please prove me wrong.
Message: Posted by: brehan (Jun 15, 2018 03:14AM)
Iam intrested in this only if scott talks tradeshow does hé?
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Jun 15, 2018 08:46AM)
Brehan - It covers everything. He actually doesn't talk about trade shows all that much. It's more how to build a business that has a high earning potential, rather than "Go to this place and do this thing and you'll be rich".
Message: Posted by: Joe S. (Jun 17, 2018 02:57AM)
Brehan,

Scott covers lots of different markets and specific business know-how. It's a no-brainer for lots of magicians. But if trade shows are your SOLE concern, you'd be better off with Harrison Carrol's Trade Show University. It's $500 or $600 bucks per year (annual digital subscription), but the info is extremely detailed for that specific market. Just google The Trade Show University and you should find it.

Good luck,
Joe
Message: Posted by: brehan (Jun 17, 2018 04:08AM)
Joe and Christopher,

Thanks for the tips and reaction to my question. Very helpfull.

Brehan
Message: Posted by: Stokar (Jun 18, 2018 02:34PM)
Greetings,

I hope this response will answer a few questions you might have regarding my masterclass:

This is NOT a "motivational", get rich quick, Tony Robbins type program... This is a focus on the BUSINESS of making a career out of being a magician. It will take work, daily work, many times more work than practicing a new trick... It is kinda like a "Chilton Guide" (Car repair manual) is to fixing your car... A guide will SHOW YOU how to do the work, but YOU still need to provide the hand tools, the man-hours, and elbow-grease to fix a car or build your magic career. But, the more you work on it, the easier it gets (just like fixing a car is easier for a professional mechanic than it is for a weekend tinkerer). Side note, if YOU personally get motivated by hearing other magicians tell you how THEY made it and how you can do it, I cannot be held responsible for that motivation, it is a mere side effect.

And, you are right, it would be arrogant for me to believe that I, (Scott Tokar) personally know it ALL in the magic business... Sure, I can tell you tons about tradeshow magic (and I do), but I know when to turn to the REAL experts for the many other vertical markets in the business. This is why I insisted on including focused interviews on subjects like: Magic as a General Practioner with Danny Orleans, YouTube and Leveraging you Magic with Justin Flom, Street Magic with Kosmo Kos, Gospel Magic with Greg Davidson, Working State and County Fairs with Frank Thurston, performing Sales Meetings and Speakers Bureaus with Shep Hyken, Levent on Cruise Ships, David Kaye (Silly Billy) on Kids Shows, Dana Daniels on Corporate and After Dinner Shows, Kevin James on BIG Theater Shows and Broadway, Adam Wilber on Websites and SEO, Doc Eason focusing on Bar Magic, Erick Olson talks about 4 Walling your own show, Bruce Gold - Booking with agents and Cruise ships, Garrett Thomas talks about Restaurants, Michael Carducci on CRM and automation, and David Penn on Weddings in the UK...

I have personally put my heart and soul into this Master Class, and I over delivered with SO MUCH raw footage and material that Ellusionist had to push back my release date 3 times just edit it down to only EIGHTEEN HOURS! Yes, 18 hours of solid focus on the business of magic. At times, I know the content can be dry and boring (it's business not sleights), but I tried my hardest to make it as entertaining as possible to watch… This turned out more like a college crash course in magic as an MBA than just a magic masterclass...

As a full-time tradeshow magic performer and CEO of the Corporate-Fx Tradeshow Magic Group, I don't have unlimited resources in time and energy to personally coach everyone that asks me, but I will do my best to respond to as many magicians as I can... The BEST way to reach me regarding this project, or ask me questions about the magic business is via my Instagram account and through private messaging at: https://www.instagram.com/scotttokar

Again, thanks to all my friends for all the support and encouragement in producing this class.

Scott Tokar, M.I.M.C.
Visual Communicator, Tradeshow Magician
Corporate-Fx, Inc.
Message: Posted by: Danny Kazam (Jan 2, 2019 03:37PM)
Interesting course. One thing I find most magic courses on marketing fails to address is the "how to". It's one thing to teach what needs to be done, but it's another to teach others how to do it. Scott does touch a little on the "how to", but in my opinion does not on the more important parts of marketing.

For example; We all hear how we should find our target market, but unless you go directly to an expert in marketing, (someone who has made a career in creating marketing strategies for other companies)via seminar, or books, you may not know how to go about it.

Two issues I take with the lecture part of the course. "Magicians are not our competition". This is not correct. Regardless if one wants to believe it or not, but other magicians who serve the same market as you in your local area ARE your competition. Competition isn't a bad thing. In fact, there are many positive things that come out of competition. It keeps us from becoming complacent, it motivates us to become better, helps us strive for excellence and be all that we can be. It creates friendships and relationships, and elevates the art of magic just to name a few things.

Sure, there are some who want to use unethical, and sometimes illegal means to cheat. It happens in all kinds of competition. Those people are frowned upon, and punished one way or the other when caught. Some feel so inferior that the only way they think they can compete is by belittling their competition, spreading rumors and lies. They think they have to destroy their competition at any cost.

Reality is, other local magicians who are working the same market as us are competing for local gigs. It doesn't mean we can't help each other out, or give each other support. We can even be really good friends. Our greatest competition is no doubt ourselves. We should always strive to be better than our last show.

The other issue is, trying to compete with Chuck E Cheese (which was used as an example). We are performing entertainers, we are not a catering service. The example Scott gave was illogical. 1- he suggest hiring a Princess assistant to set up the birthday show, play games with the children, and clean up after words all for the same rate she gets paid to just walking around, smile, and take pictures with children. In other words, have her work harder and do more for the same rate she gets paid for other gigs.

2- Provide pizza, snacks, games, 2 magic trick give-aways to each child (20-25) provide set-up and clean up. All this for a 2 hour birthday party to compete with Chuck E Cheese, at the cost of $500. When you break things down in price, pizza can cost about $40-60 bucks for a group of 20-25 children (2 slices each) $50 for 2 hours service of a Princess who would have to be willing to leave her other gig to work harder for the same rate, 2 tricks per child, (40-50 tricks around $1 each = $40-$50), paper plates, napkings, cups, beverages, (approx: $30), roughly totaling around $160. Subtract that from $500 = $340 in your pocket.

Ordering pizza is not a challenge to do. Any parent can simply pick up a phone and make a delivery order. Not a big selling feature, but extra work you have to do.

Here's the thing, you make that same rate by not doing all that extra stuff, by simply offering more entertainment value in your birthday packages. My top package includes all my add ons for $375 for 1 hour birthday magic show. I don't provide food, or games, or any of that stuff. I don't need to take advantage of a Princess, and believe it or not...I've been hired for a birthday party that was located at a local Chuck E Cheese.

Scott explains that balloon artists, face painters, Princesses and Super heroes are our competition. I completely disagree because I have done many, many events that not only hired me as the magician, but also hired a balloon artist, face painter, Princesses, and Super Heroes. Many events even had a bouncy tent, or several of them. Sure, there are times a parent may have to choose between a bouncy tent or a magician, which then makes them a competitor. But when has a parent ever hired 2 magicians for the same event? How many times will a parent rent a bouncy tent and a magician? I have worked several birthday parties where the parents went all out. Bouncy tent, face painter, and a magician. I've never been to an event where they hired 2 magicians. There of course is the exception of bigger events that hire several magicians for the same evening, but even then those magicians hired competed with other magicians if they are aware of it or not. Whenever someone is deciding on hire a magician for their event or party, they are choosing the one they want over the others.

There are times we are not competiting with anyone, or any other business. Client knows what they want, and already know who they want to hire. (regular clients, repeat clients) That magician only had to compete once to get that gig.

I know I'm not the best person to explain this as best as it can be, but I felt compelled to at least try.

Scott Tokar does a good job in addressing some important points about running a magic business, all the other video's and interviews are very interresting, some of them very informative as well, but over-all I found it lacking in real meat. By that, I mean the kind of stuff you can learn from taking a marketing course, or reading books by authors of well known experts in the field, who have helped teach the "how to" of each step of marketing your business.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jan 2, 2019 04:00PM)
Unfortunately, all of this sounds like a bunch of magician's thinking. I prefer to operate from an entertainment business and industry perspective.

The first thing that is a red flag for me is when a course pushes marketing before understanding business models, practices and operations. All the successful marketing in the world won't make a difference. This all seems to be based on the magicians thinking, beliefs, and perceptions and quite frankly that is not who purchasers of such services, in consumer or professional markets, operate - plain and simple.

I had others discuss this course with me and I see nothing new or inquire or really different here.

There are some things I agree with and disagree with. Other musicians are your competition as well as any other performers or entertainment offerings competing for that client's dollars. Including cake, catering, food, decorations, etc. Funds are usually on a budget and limited and it all becomes a concern to the prospect.

As I have said before I would never buy a magician's marketing course. I would make my wise investment into an entertainment business course, training or system. Do you want a piece of fish or learn to how to learn how to fish so you'll be set forever?

Also just because the creator is a great performer in no way qualifies him to offer business advice. Now I'm sure for beginners or one with little or no knowledge on this it would surely be helpful. I didn't care for the promotional copy and hype surrounding the course myself.

I have found it interesting that after 6 months so little has been touted about this course. I'm glad some found it helpful.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jan 2, 2019 07:06PM)
I forgot to mention that I think the interviews can be helpful to some in the very same way as David Divinci's Magic Masters Summit. Some seem to enjoy and find value in those while others come up a bit short so it really depends on what you are seeking and your current level. I can see how some would find them helpful but again, they are just talking about their way and how they did/do things.
Message: Posted by: Stokar (Jan 28, 2019 01:47AM)
Thank you for the honest review Danny Kazam! I sure hope that the other remaining 18 hours in the course were of some value to you...

Regarding your comment, you may be right, but here are my thoughts.

If I asked most people “who is competition to the Boston Redsox” most people might say “The Yankees”. This is true, in the sport, but in the BUSINESS of baseball, the competition to the Redsox is other opportunities to spend entertainment dollars... In reality, movies, concerts, even other sports are competing for those entertainment dollars... So, in answering the competition question BOTH the Yankees and a Concert are competition to the Redsox...

If a mom and dad are going to throw a birthday party for their son or daughter, everything they might spend their birthday party budget on is a Magician’s competition. If you want to compete with these other birthday party options you must understand how much the mom and dad are willing to spend and why they might go somewhere else (besides spending it on a magician). Like bounce houses, princess, clown, games, and locations like a trampoline park or Chuck E Cheeses.

I think you may be misiing the MACRO part of my Chuck e Cheeses example while focusing on the MICRO in competing with other magicians...

For example, if you want a sweet after dinner treat, you may choose from Mrs. Fields Cookies, Baskin Robins Ice Cream, or the Rocky Mountain Chocolate Factory. But once you choose from the competing deserts and select Ice Cream, you can worry about what flavor may win, Chocolate or Vanilla (if you consider the flavors competition).

I hope these examples are not too ethereal, but my point was that Chuck E Cheeses were purposely designed for kids birthday parties, and after spending two million dollars per Chuck E Cheeses franchise to host birthday parties in YOUR neighborhood, we as magicians should realise that making ONLY six figures in the same neighborhood on birthday parties is actually quite doable...

So, if you can maximize your offerings, increase your availability (by adding other employees) you can indeed make WAY more money in birthday parties. Now if you are concentrating on competing with Chuck E Cheeses, you will automatically be thinking steps ahead of the other magicians in your area, and I am willing to bet that you will no longer see them as competition.

Again, I hope my short rambling is understandable, feel free to contact me personally, I would love to help your business grow!

With respect, Scott Tokar
Message: Posted by: Oscar999 (Jan 28, 2019 03:36PM)
I actually thought the Chuck E Cheese example was "mind expanding."

I enjoyed this course and felt like Scott did an excellent job of delivering solid information. For me, the Chuck E Cheese example was a way to think "differently" about the business we're really in and to appreciate the bigger opportunity. And I think it squares with some of what Mindpro has been sharing as well.

Oscar
Message: Posted by: thomasR (Jan 28, 2019 03:55PM)
I guess it depends on what type of business you are looking to be in. Do you want to be a "we do everything chuck e. cheese does" solution to birthday parties? Ok... I mean why not buy your own pizza oven while you're at it?
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jan 28, 2019 06:33PM)
[quote]On Jan 28, 2019, thomasR wrote:
Ok... I mean why not buy your own pizza oven while you're at it? [/quote]

You may be saying that sarcastically, but I know several performers, primarily in the 2/4 walling and fundraising areas, that do carry 4-6 single pizza ovens, popcorn machines, cotton candy machines, slushy machines, hot dog wheels, etc.
Message: Posted by: cafecheckers (Jan 29, 2019 11:05AM)
[quote]On Jan 28, 2019, Stokar wrote:
I hope these examples are not too ethereal, but my point was that Chuck E Cheeses were purposely designed for kids birthday parties, and after spending two million dollars per Chuck E Cheeses franchise to host birthday parties in YOUR neighborhood, we as magicians should realise that making ONLY six figures in the same neighborhood on birthday parties is actually quite doable...

So, if you can maximize your offerings, increase your availability (by adding other employees) you can indeed make WAY more money in birthday parties. Now if you are concentrating on competing with Chuck E Cheeses, you will automatically be thinking steps ahead of the other magicians in your area, and I am willing to bet that you will no longer see them as competition.
With respect, Scott Tokar [/quote]

I agree with Scott here, in that making six figures should be doable, but also think that figuring out the micro is where the real work is. Simply following what has worked for others seldom is the answer, as we have discussed many times before. For example, there are magicians who
-charge $1,000 for a Birthday Appearance,
*show up with a small bag of props and charge $375 for 45 minutes
*have a full party service offering for $500
*have BOR add-on
*use SEO to fully book
Many of these choices cannot be used in combination because it confounds the business model. Additionally, there are many other venues and markets for children entertainers that should be understood and considered. This is why it makes most sense to invest in learning the entire spectrum of possibilities as well as your individual capabilities and interests before moving too far down any path, especially when it involves adding employees, as that adds another layer of opportunity and challenges.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jan 29, 2019 11:33AM)
There are small rural towns where you won't get more than $250 on the high end for children shows. Places like New York City you will squeak by with only a hundred grand.

The idea that one size fits all is just silly in my opinion. What works in one place is death in another. Individual markets vary tremendously in terms of absolutely everything.

None of these things guys write are necessarily wrong. Not at all and in context in the right region they are probably dead on accurate. All I'm saying is it needs to be considered.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jan 29, 2019 12:06PM)
Cafécheckers and Danny's post says a lot, especially about magic marketing courses. 98% of them are nothing more than "this is what I've done, how I do it".

In reality, there is so much more to it. At the very root is understanding different business models and more than just the typical surface thinking and perceptions. Secondly is the understanding that it is not marketing that these guys need, its business skills, strategies and knowledge. I see it on a daily basis - performers put all their efforts into marketing, yet are completely unprepared on how to properly present and sell their shows and service their clients and the market. So they put their efforts into marketing, because that's what all the magic course gurus tell you to do to get more bookings, and then they are like a deer in headlights when someone does call for more information and to express interest.

The closeing/booking rate for may magicians is between 15 an 25%. This is terrible compared to 65, 70, 89 or even 85% closing/booking ratios from thos ewith the proper skills and knowledge.

I'm also constaly amazed at how little may actually know about the market they serve or specialize in.

Cafécheckers is correct, there are so many more (lucrative) markets for kids performers than most ever realize.

Also because of the general nature and approach to all of these guys is the implication or actual stating that "this information and techniques can also be used for jugglers, comedians, hypnotists, and other variety perofrmers. Rarely is that the case. If you have a course in how to be a closeup magician or a restuarant magician it is not the same if you are a hypnotist or comedian, I'm sorry. Worse yet the creators make such claims without ever personally trying or testing the information with actual comedians, DJs, jugglers, hypnotists, etc.

The firts sign of "run away as fast as you can" is when a course states that their general information is applicable across the board.

Café checkers comment "This is why it makes most sense to invest in learning the entire spectrum of possibilities as well as your individual capabilities and interests before moving too far down any path..." is the most inportant to understand of most advice offered here. Most other busiensees ential market research, industry knowledge, and a complete understanding of the busienss potential and oppotunirty BEFORE ever starting or opening a business - based on actual numbers, stats, data and reseacrch. Not for most magicians, the (the uneducated performers) decide to create and operate their busienss based on their personal beliefs and limited knowledge. This is a key for failure. This is also what separates the top 15-20% that are successfull from the remaining 80-85%.

I also agree that many performers are terrible at actually hiring (or outsourcing) others and attempting to scale. Since most are not business-inclined to begin with themselves, they are poor at hirig and traiing others employees or contracters to work with them, but that's another whole thread of its own.

Market knowledge is a major key as it dictates so much of what the foundation of your business should be based upon.

Also, if you look closely most magic marketing courses say the same things - you need a website, SEO, automation, and many other kinds of tech. These models were created for onlne marketing and infoproduct busiensses, not lactual live service-based bsuiensses.

I have a couple that I work with that made $400,000 in ten months - without a busienss card or a website, just working locally in their home area.

You won't find this in a magic marketing course.
Message: Posted by: Stokar (Jan 29, 2019 01:01PM)
Mindpro,

In this post you are square-on! Most performers ingnore the “business” aspects of magic. This is why I spent so much time in the lecture part of the course talking about business plans, expectations, and measurable results (especially at the 3 year mark).

Regarding the “this is what I’ve done and how to do it”... you can learn from those that have done it before you, but you are right that most courses cast the teacher as a know it all... This is why I spent so much time talking with so many others in the course about THEIR specialties (cruise ships, night clubs, corporate events, kid shows).

In the 18 hours, we only spent 45 minutes on web, search engines, and SEO. Frankly, if that is what interests you, you should seek a course specifically on web marketing by web marketers themselves, not their clients.

Regarding rural magicians making less than a New York magician, agreed, supply and demand. But, listen closely to my Chuck E. Cheeses example again, someone else (the person that bought the franchise) thinks there is enough birthday party money to be made in that rural community to invest nearly 2 million dollars to buy, open and run for the first year a Chuck E. Chesses. So use THEIR marketing research (by watching them, and their spending) and realize that THEY had to convince a bank (or investors) to get their loan to fill the same local birthday party market with an establishment in the same city you are selling your birthday party magic.

If you are just in love with doing magic, great I commend you... But if you are willing to work as hard at establishing your business and hire employees, and serve more than (just games for Chuck E Cheese) just a 45 minute show for a magician, you can earn way more and capture a market! Now, can we figure out how you can do more parties in the same 24 hour day, and get paid more fore each party?

I realize that my single $350 business course in magic will not in itself make you six-figures, the student has to do the work too, and part of that work is more study apart from the course, research in the vertical market, and business planning... Lke owning a 7-11, it takes more than a day’s worth of Slurpy sales to make your business a success.

By the way, I personally began my focus on tradeshow magic as my singular market in 1992 at the age of 27 (after doing kid shows from age 13-21, and then clubs and ships from 21-27 years old)... I am blessed to now own and run the most successful Tradeshow Magic Company, Corporate-Fx in the business today. I still to this day at 53 years old, study marketing and read/watch what others have to say about business in the magic community and in the greater business community. The day I stop learning is the day I should retire. I am well aware that there are smarter business people than me, my goal is to not be jealous of them, but to be motivated by them more and more each day... I hope I can do the same for others in the magic community.

A rising tide lifts all ships... My goal is to help the magic community as a whole, so that we can all benefit.

Again, thanks for the constructive criticism. I want to learn and improve from it!

Scott Tokar
Message: Posted by: cafecheckers (Jan 29, 2019 02:13PM)
Scott- I agree that knowing there is a Chuck E Cheese in town can help place some realities on the viability of owning an kids entertainment company, but not sure where the rest of what you suggest lands. People choose Chuck E Cheese because it is a no brain solution. Just covering party needs is a small part of it. How does one address the many concerns birthday party parents have that include: parking, room for guests, intrusion, house prep? Often the people hosting parties at their house with entertainment have a very different mindset regarding hosting a birthday party than those who choose Chuck E Cheese.

Adding employees is not a simple thing, when your reputation is on the lines and there is travel, uncertain hours, and high people skills required. I would think that unless you are working with family, you would need a large enough operation to account for vacation, sick leave, personal time and unforeseen circumstances (car breaks down, accident) before bringing anyone to assist at parties. It is hard enough to manage these things for oneself, while running a entertainment business.

Regarding your program, it sounds like it offers good content at a fair price and could open peoples eyes to possibilities.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jan 29, 2019 03:06PM)
Why would one want to purchase a business in which they spend a hundred plus hours a week working in the restaurant game in order to land some 45 minute shows? It is going around the block to get next door!

If one spent the time and resources needed to do the restaurant correctly on doing the business of shows correctly I bet the ROI is much better at the very least on their time.

If I want to know what time it is all I have to do is know how to tell time and buy a watch. I do not have to learn how watches work and I certainly don't have to build one. To my way of thinking that is a bit odd.
Message: Posted by: Danny Kazam (Jan 29, 2019 03:38PM)
No offense, but no where in your lecture about the business aspect of magic did you mention how to study and research the market, nor how a magician can discover more about who their market, or markets are.

When it comes to our competition, I never stated that we only compete with other magicians. I stated that you mentioned that magicians were not our competition, and disagreed with it. Providing the same services as Chuck E Cheese does not eliminate other magicians as competition either. All it does is add more value to our service that we provide. If one is willing to decide to become a catering service while also providing entertainment, that is a person's choice. As long as they fully understand all that is involved, both from the business aspect, licensing, employee wages, taxes, etc, and the extra time and effort that goes into it.

(By the way, Chuck E Cheese thrives on much more than just hosting birthday parties. It is a family restaurant with a carnival like atmosphere. Birthday parties is just a small percentage of their over-all business.)

Danny Doyle says it really well when it comes to what works in one place, may not work well in another place. That's why it's so important to study and research your market, know how to figure out who are the people that will benefit from your service the most, know how to directly reach them, and how to get them to see the value in what you have to offer them.

Birthday parties are just one type of service I offer. Other markets I focus on is schools, libraries, festivals, and fundraisers. Each of those markets required me to study and research each one separately to better understand with whom I was dealing with, what their wants were, and how to create a show that would be of most value to them. Knowing this also helps me when putting together ads, or promoting myself to successfully target those markets directly without wasting effort or money.

I think we are quick to always think outside the box, but the box is pretty big, and plenty of idea's within the box to work with. I'm not focused on making a whole bunch of money. I gave up my painting company that was doing that for me to pursue my real passion in life, which is performing and entertainers others. It has brought me tremendous joy and fulfillment. It has been that passion that has fueled my journey of success so far, and has led me to being able to make a very good living at it.

One of the things I did like about your lecture is when you talked about working with other service providers. Personally, I think it's a great idea to contact Chuck E Cheese and work out some kind of business collaboration. Perhaps Chuck E Cheese can include the entertainers service in one of their birthday party packages? Or, cross promote with the local bouncy tent company, party supply store, etc.

I can reach out to face painters, balloon artists, super hero characters, princess', etc, and market myself to festivals and fundraisers as the person who can book all their entertainment needs. One shop provides it all.

Anyhow, for all the hours of video's in your lecture series, there is some value in it. I just personally believe it brings nothing new to the table, and fails to hit the mark on what's really important. I think you are a great speaker, and very talented.

Just want to add that I personally think Mindpro is dead on accurate in everything he has stated.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jan 29, 2019 03:58PM)
One danger of the partnership thing is that a company as savvy as that will soon realize that they can provide what you do for FAR less than they would pay you. I have seen it happen to balloon twisters.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jan 29, 2019 04:49PM)
House Acts, exactly.

The problem with such types of interviews of other performers is it becomes a collection of everyone's individual "this is what I've done" and nothing more. Its then is up to the listener/viewer to put and piece together all of it into something possibly applicable to their business. Then they soon find that what one person was talking about in their interview is how it applied directly to them in their area and in the market they serve. More than likely it will be much different from your personal interests, markets, and performance area.

Same for summits. It can be a nice collection of interviews from a bunch of guys trying to make a living in magic, but it is just a collection of thoughts and things a sit pertains to them (usually by friends of the host which limits the knowledgebase and topics being covered).

Rarely if ever, do I see any of these guys operate from an industry position or perspective. It is always from a peer perspective. They mistakenly believe that if I have one guy that does restaurants, another that does kids parties, another that does schools, another that does festivals or fairs, and another one that does cruise ships, that they are somehow covering everything that needs to be covered. Again, they're not. They're in fact offer the majority of information that WILL NOT apply to most of the readers/viewers, so while it looks like so much info in the program, it creates less actual usable content for most. Hence the reviews they always get. Nothing about the industry or industry operations - only personal insight, thoughts, and opinions. Based only on their own experience.

Sure it can possibly be helpful to a newbie, but these guys rarely invest in this type of information and education. The worker that is stuck or has seemed to peak is who needs assistance needs help but they don't need it from others thoughts as it pertains to their own business. They want information specifically as it pertains to their business and their current situation (hence coaching and individual education) and from an industry perspective. truth be told, most are not qualified to teach this as most don't know and understand this.

Magicians must stop thinking like magicians if they ever want to cross the default threshold. Also, conventional business approaches and thinking also has great limitations. This is why I often lump all of these magic courses together. Many of them I have been asked to review and that is the problem I often have is they all come from the same place. Also just because a performer may be successful in their own business in no way makes them an authority to teach or train business. Again, at best they can only teach the limited version of what they know and have experienced, and it is almost always from the perspective of a magician.

I agree with Danny Kazam, just because something is covered in an interview or mentioned in text in no way makes it actual valid research or learnable content. So many focus on the "what" and rarely the "why" and "how".

Magician's would rather listen to online information marketers than entertainment industry professionals. They would rather base their efforts and beliefs on guru online marketers than credible entertainment industry (not magic) professionals. I would much rather sit down and listen to an entertainment company executive than an online guru.

Good thoughts.
Message: Posted by: Stokar (Jan 29, 2019 05:44PM)
[quote]On Jan 29, 2019, Cafécheckers wrote:

Adding employees is not a simple thing, when your reputation is on the lines and there is travel, uncertain hours, and high people skills required. I would think that unless you are working with family, you would need a large enough operation to account for vacation, sick leave, personal time and unforeseen circumstances (car breaks down, accident) before bringing anyone to assist at parties. It is hard enough to manage these things for oneself, while running a entertainment business.
[/quote]

Exactly! Thank you for helping me make my point! "It is hard enough to manage these things for oneself, while running an entertainment business", but that is what I am saying, if you want to make more money, you will be "running an entertainment business", not just doing the performing! Being in show business requires BOTH show and business. If you want to GROW in the SHOW eventually you WILL be hiring assistants, marketing people, PR people, etc. Ask David Blaine, David Copperfield, or even PIFF... Treat your magic offerings as a business, with a business plan, and have measurable goal points to see if the direction your business is going is the right direction... This is NOT a get rich quick course, if you want to make $$$ and that is all, go spend the time to become a lawyer, it will take about the same amount of time as growing the magic business, and it is a more guaranteed success than being a magician.

It was hard to write a basic enough marketing program to sell to the general magic population on Ellusionist while also trying to explain more critical business foundational truths for more experienced magicians. If you are already making $100,000+ per year maybe what I am teaching is too basic for you... Also, maybe a careful review of the fundamentals could kick someone's magic business into higher gear. Either way, That is OK, I can't be everything to everyone, even college courses have a 101, 201, etc. You can't get an MBA from an eighteen-hour course.

In "How to make six figures", I talk about many "vertical specialties" within magic. The hardest one is "general practitioner", but Danny Orleans does a great job of giving advice on that subject in the interviews. Hopefully, the course will help you focus on a specialty, and market specifically to it.

Please keep in mind, the course is only $350, if you are doing things right that should be around 1 show's income (or less). In the 4 hours of lecture alone we cover so much that is critical, I hope that you can get your money's worth out of it... The main thing is to INSPIRE you and to show you that making a solid living as a magician is doable, as much as it is fun.

The reviews thus far in magic magazines, and in THIS thread from those that have seen the course speak for themselves. But again, I can't please everybody.

Thanks again for your focused interest in the course. I appreciate and respect you.

Scott Tokar
Message: Posted by: Stokar (Jan 29, 2019 06:06PM)
[quote]On Jan 29, 2019, Danny Kazam wrote:
No offense, but no where in your lecture about the business aspect of magic did you mention how to study and research the market, nor how a magician can discover more about who their market, or markets are....

Danny Doyle says it really well when it comes to what works in one place, may not work well in another place. That's why it's so important to study and research your market, know how to figure out who are the people that will benefit from your service the most, know how to directly reach them, and how to get them to see the value in what you have to offer them...

Birthday parties are just one type of service I offer. Other markets I focus on is schools, libraries, festivals, and fundraisers. Each of those markets required me to study and research each one separately to better understand with whom I was dealing with, what their wants were, and how to create a show that would be of most value to them. Knowing this also helps me when putting together ads, or promoting myself to successfully target those markets directly without wasting effort or money...

[/quote]

Where did we discuss researching and studying a particular market?
It starts in slide #15 "Learn all aspects of your specialty" Study your market first. We talk about why you should first work in the market to learn how to sell to it. How to become a recognized expert (outside of magic), and we go deeper in module II.

"That's why it's so important to study and research your market, know how to figure out who are the people that will benefit from your service the most, know how to directly reach them, and how to get them to see the value in what you have to offer them..." In slide #39 we talk about: "What is your potential?" and How big is your market/location/population? How are other businesses selling to the same market? Do your customers exist already or do you have to make a new market? How much did it cost to enter the same market? Estimated Start-Up Capital: $100K+ is needed when opening an indoor bounce-house business. PLUS first-year cash reserves of at least $300,000 to cover operating expenses like rent, payroll, marketing, and insurance.

And, a BIG part of what I teach is to focus and specialize in ONE aspect of magic. In slide #48 I specifically address the benefits of being a "specialist". I say something like "when you have an emergency, any doctor will do. But, when you are diagnosed with cancer, you will take the time to seek out THE specialist and pay him more. We need to do the same thing in magic. To be sought after as THE specialist in our vertical market, it will make you more marketable and profitable."

In just these three examples, I am sure you can see that I am not just teaching SEO and a "get rich quick scheme".

I attempt to teach the REAL world of making magic your business. I hope it can lift the entire industry, even if that is too lofty a goal...

With respect, and appreciation.

Scott Tokar
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jan 29, 2019 06:24PM)
[quote]On Jan 29, 2019, Stokar wrote:


Please keep in mind, the course is only $350, if you are doing things right that should be around 1 show's income (or less). In the 4 hours of lecture alone we cover so much that is critical, I hope that you can get your money's worth out of it... The main thing is to INSPIRE you and to show you that making a solid living as a magician is doable, as much as it is fun.

Scott Tokar [/quote]

This particular quote makes me nervous every time I see it.
Message: Posted by: Danny Kazam (Jan 29, 2019 07:03PM)
[quote]On Jan 29, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
One danger of the partnership thing is that a company as savvy as that will soon realize that they can provide what you do for FAR less than they would pay you. I have seen it happen to balloon twisters. [/quote]

Good point. I remember when I was a kid, me and a friend came up with this money making idea. We would stand outside of our local Drive-Inn theatre and wash windows on Fridays and Saturdays. Sometimes on Sundays if Monday was a holiday. We made great money at it. Both of us would have around $75 after just a few hours. The owner of the Drive-Inn discovered what we were doing, and how much we were making. The next year he wanted to hire us for $3 an hour. We declined, but we had no idea that he was going to make it impossible to work the next year by kicking us off the property and hiring others to do it.
Message: Posted by: Stokar (Jan 29, 2019 08:15PM)
Yes, I think it is better to be hiring the staff than to be hired as staff.

I don’t go into much detail (or recommendations) in working at a Chuck E Cheeses. We just use them as an example of how vast the Birthday market is. I think a kid can only have one birthday party a Chuck E Cheeses, you can be the next party highlight. And since you know how much the parents paid, you know how much you can charge THIS YEAR! Now, if you can figure out how to make the experience last just 2 hours and provide clean-up and some games along with pizza, parents will be happy to spend the same or more!

But all this talk about kids shows? You are missing the other verticals we cover like: Sales meetings, Tradeshows, Gospel Magic, 4-walling, Cruise Ships, clubs, big theater productions, street magic, restaurants, and more in the course.

Yes, we don’t do all 18 hours on just one specialty. This is “business” focused with an overview of many potential vertical markets.

Oh, and Eternital Order, if you want, I am happy to mark it up to $1,350 if you demand. 😜
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jan 29, 2019 08:18PM)
Buying a pizza place to do a kids show seems a bit much.
Message: Posted by: Stokar (Jan 29, 2019 08:31PM)
[quote]On Jan 29, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Buying a pizza place to do a kids show seems a bit much. [/quote]

Agreed.

Never suggested that.

Maybe we have run this whole Chuck E. Cheeses example into the ground.

🤐
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jan 29, 2019 10:37PM)
You are playing both sides of this fence. Is it a good idea or not
Message: Posted by: Danny Kazam (Jan 29, 2019 10:50PM)
I've actually performed a birthday party at Chuck E Cheese, even McDonald's. I also performed a birthday party held at the Science Center. I've performed birthdays several times at Rec Centers and community halls.

I can make the same amount you suggest in your lecture without doing anything more than offering magic. No need to take advantage of a girl Princess, or become a birthday party planner and organizer. Most parents I deal with don't have an issue with organizing, planning, and running a birthday party. In fact, they love it. They even get the birthday child involved with the planning. They have friends and family who also help out.

Offering to plan their child's birthday party and run it is not something my birthday market finds of any value. Parents I deal with want to be hands on in every aspect of their child's birthday. And, I encourage that as well.

Mindpro hit on it in a previous post. It's one thing to state the "what" as you do, but the "why's" and "how" is where the real meat is. Telling someone they need to research their market is one thing, teaching the many optional ways they can do that is another.

I think the 18 hours of video is to compensate for the lack of real quality content. Stuff as much into the program to create the perception of value by means of quantity rather than quality.
Message: Posted by: Stokar (Jan 29, 2019 11:53PM)
[quote]On Jan 29, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
You are playing both sides of this fence. Is it a good idea or not [/quote]

Danny,

I said that if you add more things as a package to your birthday party “experience” (like an assistant to play games, clean-up and serve pizza) you can ask for the same price (or more) than a Chuck E Cheese birthday party. This way, a magician can do a 30 minute show, but have the “magicians assistant “ stay on site to complete the experience. The magician can then cram more shows into a single day and charge more for each show...

To prove my point, I used the opening and operating expenses from a Chuck E Cheese franchise (that makes 75% of their income from birthday parties).

Magic as a business, to make $100k + requires the same amount of work as running any other business (like a 7-11), but I never said go buy a 7-11 or a Chuck E Cheeses.

But again, kid shows is like 5% of the course.

Hope that clears it up...

Scott Tokar
Message: Posted by: Stokar (Jan 30, 2019 12:03AM)
[quote]On Jan 29, 2019, Danny Kazam wrote:

I think the 18 hours of video is to compensate for the lack of real quality content. Stuff as much into the program to create the perception of value by means of quantity rather than quality. [/quote]

Danny

Are you just trolling?

That kinda stung...

You did say:
Scott Tokar does a good job in addressing some important points about running a magic business, all the other video's and interviews are very interresting, some of them very informative as well, but over-all I found it lacking in real meat. By that, I mean the kind of stuff you can learn from taking a marketing course, or reading books by authors of well known experts in the field, who have helped teach the "how to" of each step of marketing your business.

Question, if I answered the things that you would also get by taking a marketing course, or reading books, perhaps you could admit that it is a concise or focused look at applying these things without having to take a semester class or trying to find books on the subject?

Scott Tokar
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jan 30, 2019 10:42AM)
Danny Kazam is not a troll. If something stung it is not his fault.
Message: Posted by: Stokar (Jan 30, 2019 10:50AM)
I guess you are right.

You can’t please everybody. I guess I was tired. Sorry Danny....

Scott Tokar.
Message: Posted by: Danny Kazam (Jan 30, 2019 10:54AM)
100% of my business comes from kid shows, but you are right, it takes the same amount of work as running any other business.

Once again I have to correct you. The reason why Chuck E Cheese is successful is because it does not rely on birthday parties for the majority of it's business. A little bit of research shows birthday parties make up only around 15% of their business. They didn't come up with new ways to draw up more birthday party bookings. They understand their market, and who their competition are and have created an environment that competes with other family style restaurants. Including changing their menus to add more selections.

My point is, there are ways an entertainer can increase the value of their birthday show without putting themselves into direct competition with restaurants such as Chuck E Cheese. We can offer a magic class as an add on, balloon animals, (if one chooses to learn how to make them) goodie bags, personalized invitations, extra routines such as the chair suspension, or a puppet show, or face painting, just to name a few off the top of my head.

Rather than try and offer my clients what Chuck E Cheese can offer them, I prefer to offer my clients things that Chuck E Cheese can't offer them. Danny Doyle made a good point when I brought up working with Chuck E Cheese as part of one of their birthday packages. All they have to do is see the financial opportunity of it and hire their own in house entertainer.

I apologize if some of my comments stung, but I'm not trolling. I have over 1500 post compared to your 10.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jan 30, 2019 11:00AM)
With the birthday party business in their model only being 15% of total it makes em LESS sense to buy one to do parties.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jan 30, 2019 11:02AM)
This is exactly why I would never release a product to the mass magic community. This is not what they need. Between so many different levels of magicians, so many different types of specialty, so many different and available performance markets, such limiting "magician's thinking," and the copy-cat approach so common in magic, you are just setting yourself up for problems and limited success if any.

Most that I've talked to that have released courses or programs have come to this realization on their own and discovered it is just not worth it. More problems and dissatisfaction occurs than the originally expected positive results. I ask many if they would ever do it again or revise their program and I usually get a "no, it's just not worth it, financially, emotionally or as expected."

When I discuss with them many of the things I've mentioned here they usually have come that that realization and agree claiming it was actually quite disappointing, unfulfilling and very eye-opening. (I usually tell them "well if you had just listened to what I was saying BEFORE you did all of this you would have saved a lot of frustration, aggravation, time money and frustrated belief in the magic community, lol).

You are right, you can't please everyone, especially when they don't truly know what they want or need themselves. Of all types of performers, I work with this is very unique to the magic community. They don't know what they don't know, and often times don't want to learn what they don't know.
Message: Posted by: thomasR (Jan 30, 2019 01:26PM)
Another problem with these courses is they really start to repeat themselves. A lot of the guests for Scott's course were guests on Davinci's online seminar, and have also been guests on various podcasts. If I can get the general idea for free by listening to podcasts, why am I buying your course which is just another set of the same interviews?

I enjoy the interviews and hearing about what has worked for individual performers. But that's not really a course... I think of a course as being more along the lines of what John Kaplan offered with his Fundraising Magic. It was all about 1 thing.. fundraising shows. The entire course was designed to teach you how to do 1 thing... fundraising shows. If you followed the course, you could easily make money doing that.
Message: Posted by: Stokar (Jan 30, 2019 02:37PM)
This is a magic as a business course. Marketing is also covered (to a lesser extent), but it was designed to show someone the potential vertical markets, and help see that in all specialties you can easily make a solid living in magic.

Your criticism is valid if you are already making 6 figures, but if you are looking to start a magic carrer, I am confident this is the right course for you. If you have an MBA I may not be able to help you. But time and time again I have received emails from young magicians beaming with joy because they have doubled their income by implementing just part of what I teach here.

I have one of the earliest copies of Joel Bower’s “Hustle Hustle” and remember the value of Joel talking about the various specialties back in the late 1980’s. This course is an updated view of some of the same ideas (with some more specifics). Critically it received praise in Genii and other magazines when it was released (so for some I am on the right track) Just look at the reviews on THIS thread on page 1.

If you are criticizing my course without seeing it, or pre-judging it because you were at one time scamed by a marketing course, please give it a chance.

By the way, ELLUSIONIST relased a LITE version of the course at just $39 per episode. Maybe that would be a good place for someone to start. (Again, if you are already making $100,000+ and you are set in your business, no need to listen to what I am saying).

Wishing you all success and increased profitability.

Scott Tokar, MIMC
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Jan 30, 2019 02:46PM)
The weird thingis you have 12 posts and 10 are about your course.

Danny HAS bought the course. He DOES have opinions about it.

I was reacting to your claim in this thread that somehow it is a good idea to spend millions in a franchise, run it and all that goes worth it just to have kid spews available. It is in my view not the best route. As I said going around the block to get next door.

So the criticism is valid no matter what he is making.
Message: Posted by: charliecheckers (Jan 30, 2019 06:19PM)
Danny- in fairness, I did not read it that way. I read his post to say that if someone is willing to put down the cash (and a bank is willing to sign off on a substantial loan) to operate a Chuck E Cheese franchise it is a good indicator that a kids magician can make $100,000 in that area if they can implement ways to better (beyond just a performance) satisfy birthday parents.

I agree we once again have someone who could contribute in meaningful ways to the Tricky Business section who only chooses to do so when it directly involves their offering (too bad because Scott seems like one who is passionate about helping others).

I do think there is a lot to be gained from exposure to things described in his program that offer ideas to those who are trying to understand how they can create a viable business when they have little experience. I do not doubt his sincerity when he shares there are those who have greatly increased their business as a result of his ideas. I know early on we benefited from this type of material. I was glad someone shared how they built a business, booked shows and increased their close ratio. I think Scott has been fair here in saying what his course is and what it is not as well as his own limitations.

I like that the whole discussion of Chuck E Cheese came up because I was able to compare our approach vs what others are looking at doing to monetize this market. To me, it is great to be having these discussions here. It also confirms my belief that there is much to be learned from an industry perspective, as Mindpro articulated.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Jan 30, 2019 07:58PM)
Like so many of these types of courses and programs released and promoted here in Tricky Business, I had reservations about this primarily due to what Charliechekcer's mentioned about someone popping in here only to promote and sell their course without being an actual contributor (I understand Scott didn't start the tread it was done by a friend who on occasion may pop in). These people could further insight and discussion here on the forum, allow us to get to know them and their experience while building credibility that in the bigger picture would help them on many levels. But as we see regularly these guys only have their personal agenda as it pertains to promoting and selling their wares, with little concern for the actual TB community. It is such a shame.

These same guys will tell you that they are so busy working that they don't have time to post here regularly. I call BS on this as well as I have been on the road typically 42-46 weeks a year and never have trouble finding any time to contribute. Danny is on the road to countries all around the world 3/4ths of the year again without any problem either.

Also, I have problems with the way it is being released and initially promoted. A course like this should be reviewed by an unbiased, credible source. That speaks volumes more than testimonials (that may or may not be manufactured or fake, solicited) the creator, Ellusionists and any of their friends and customers could speak. This is followed by those unbiased who have actually purchased the program offering their thoughts (after all they spent the money and can state it's value and if it was worth it to them, why and why not.

When a product is released and promoted improperly it is an IMMEDIATE red flag to me. If they can't properly and effectively promote their new program that they strongly believe in, how good can they actually be in offering sound business advice and information? They must know their target audience which is exactly what Tricky Business is here, yet their approach misses the mark greatly.

Initially, I was asked by several for my opinion on this and refrained for the longest time out of respect and to see how it would be promoted here, and until this thread allowed change for either of these two things to occur. Until Danny Kazams recent post, I refrained.

Here's the problem, and I am not speaking specifically to Scott but to these guys that try to pass off their personal experience (and magicians thinking) as entertainment industry knowledge. To me, this is one of the secrets to entertainment business success. That is learning and education must be done in the right and proper sequential order. Practically every course I see fails on this point. Just like beginners just want to "get to the performing" with disregard to originality, community protocol, etc., when it comes to business everyone just wants to get to the marketing and getting bookings. Many lead performers to believe this is all they need.)

In reality, marketing is one of the last steps to success in entertainment business. There are soooooo many other things that needs to be learned, known, understood, and in place before ever getting to marketing. Every course I have seen fails on this.

Same for the verticle moves Scott keeps talking about to explore other markets. How can this even be done without first a clear understanding of the business, markets available and all they entail (in order to make the right and proper choices and decisions). Most reading may not even know what verticle moves are or what this means, and even before any of this learning about the different possible business models that are available and again, the differences. How can people make proper decisions on things they don't truly understand on the level required to make those decisions?

As with almost every course I have seen, the very crucial and important elements that comprise the foundational level are rarely offered, never completely to get a true understanding, and never in the proper sequential order.

Also, learning occurs on different levels. What is of interest and appealing to beginners is completely different than to a current working professional. Most try to blanket cover both in the same effort and more times than not it becomes confusing, unclear, and overwhelming to the newbie and only minimally beneficial to the experienced pro.

I could go on and say more but we'll leave it at that. I'm betting even without reading the course my response would be quite similar.

Now with that said I am NOT saying a course like this can't be helpful on several levels. But it usually is in different ways than expected when the buyer purchased. Because of this, they may find less value than expected. This is something that both parties should understand and be aware of.
Message: Posted by: Danny Kazam (Jan 30, 2019 11:20PM)
I'm just speaking from my own experience. First, I gave up my small painting business which was earning me close to 200,000 a year. I was making that because I began working for myself when the housing market boomed where I lived. I had more work than I could handle.

I gave it up though to pursue my dream full time. Entertaining was my real passion, my purpose. It wasn't about making a lot of money, it was about what brought me real joy, happiness, and fulfillment in my life. It was my goals of being the best that I can be, and providing the best entertainment I could possibly create for my audience, knowing full well that my dream depended on them. It was my - and still is my passion that drives me to be all that I can be. To continue learning, practicing, studying, and working on the business aspect of my career. The sheer love of the attention and admiration I receive from my audience is what inspires me grow and continue providing the most value I can. It was this mentality that got me booked, and re-booked. And, like a domino effect, it has earned me a very good living.

I never focused on making money, but what I did focus on just so happened to earn me enough money to continue living my dream, provide for my family, make some investments, and plan for my retirement. My business sense has helped me to get bookings, how to research my area to understand my market, who to approach, how to approach them, and where to approach them. It has taught me who to network with, how to create and build a brand, how to create value in my service beyond my skills, and how to research out new markets, just to name a few.

So why did I spend over $300 for the course? Because I am willing to invest in my dream, and to find new, innovative ways to stay on top of my competition. I don't want to become complacent, or too comfortable. I want to be moving forward all the time. I thought there might be something in the course that would help. The course wasn't what I thought it would be. It wasn't the idea of making a $100,000 that enticed me, like it probably did for others. It was my thinking that I would learn some valuable tips and strategies to further my career.

I knew I was taking a chance on it, as I have read a few books on marketing by other magicians, and share the exact same opinion as Mindpro does about them. Mindpro's just more articulate than me when explaining it. He really knows his stuff, and I've come to admire him for his intelligence and wisdom. I also respect and admire Danny Doyle for his insights and knowledge as well.

For any beginner out there, my advice is to ask yourself why you want to be a magician. Why do you do what you do? Do you really love it? Are you willing to put everything you got into it, and work real hard to make it happen? Does it fulfill you? Do you feel it's your purpose in life? It does for me. When others said I couldn't make a living as a kids performer, I only tried harder. I'm also extremely blessed to be married to a woman who absolutely believes in me. When I felt things getting tough, she was there to help remind me of my purpose, my why. And, my why is what kept me going, and keeps me going.

Some of the magicians interviewed in the course never spoke about how they subsidize their income writing books, producing dvd's, doing lectures internationally, or marketing tricks and routines. I wonder why? As someone else pointed out, their interviews were close to being the same as other interviews they have done. I did enjoy most of them though. I just didn't take from them what I was looking for, what I was hoping for.

If success means to someone making a lot of money, fine, but there are much more easier ways of doing it. Making good money at what I do is not what success means to me, nor is it my why. It just happens to be one of the benefits resulting from knowing my purpose, and following my dream with a real deep love and passion for it. I may never reach the stars, but I'm enjoying every minute of the journey just trying to get there. That's all I expect from myself.

I hope others find their purpose, and follow their dreams.
Message: Posted by: AdamStone (Sep 20, 2019 08:00AM)
Hi Café,

This is my first post on the Café and I just want to say how much I have enjoyed the How to Make 6 Figures in Magic video series. The videos are well made and Scott Tokar has brought together an amazing team of talent and knowledge that any and everyone can benefit from. Using some of the techniques covered in the series I have already been making more money performing and each time I do I have Scott to thank. This is a purchase any performer can benefit from and well worth the money. Thanks to Scott for such a helpful tool for the magic community.
Adam Stone
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Sep 20, 2019 10:32AM)
Nothing suspicious about that. I wonder if Scott is going to offer a sale or an extension or something.
Message: Posted by: thomasR (Sep 20, 2019 01:13PM)
[quote]On Sep 20, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Nothing suspicious about that. I wonder if Scott is going to offer a sale or an extension or something. [/quote]

One would hope... the course is over a year old now. This reminds me.... I'm sad that David Davinci's online magic summit only went 2 years... while not perfect, I thought he was on to something. The reason I mention it here is because a course like this is frozen in time and instantly becomes dated. The Davinci model would basically update itself each year.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Sep 20, 2019 03:17PM)
Yes, I agree - with both the first post f a new member here to dig up an old thread for the purpose of endorsement, and with thomasR's thoughts on David's Magic Summit. I know the amount of work (literally months) to produce something like that the way he did. I too was hoping it was only a one-year hiatus and that it would return. The behind the scenes and business aspects are so important to the industry and they did wander into this area, even though I thought it could've been done differently and deeper, rather than just everyone's own stories.
Message: Posted by: KC Cameron (Dec 5, 2019 11:14PM)
Well, I bought the course before I saw this thread. $350 is a lot of money and very little money - depending on how useful it is. I found $350 worth of advice in this course, but it in no way what it markets itself as six figures. It points you in the right directions many times . . . but I wanted more info. In the interviews, many of the magicians were not willing to "spill the beans". It DOES NOT go into detail I wanted but is more than a motivational download. I see the problem as it was trying to do too many things. That being said, a couple of interviews were VERY helpful.

The big thing to me is he was way out of touch with the birthday market and web work. I think he was just offering advice on things he doesn't have a good handle on. The web was the worst. I cringed.

On the other hand, I did find it motivational. It motivated me to hire Mindpro.

Is it worth $350. It was to me. Was it the best $350 I have spent? No.If you are new to magic and serious about making it a business but don't know which way to go, this is a good starting point.
Message: Posted by: thomasR (Dec 6, 2019 12:03AM)
Thanks for the review. I feel good about not buying it. I’ve bought similar products and figured this would be about the same, although a few of those names are new and would be interesting to listen to I’m sure.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Dec 6, 2019 12:41AM)
Anyone here earn 6 figures after purchasing and using this?