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Topic: Hypnosis question
Message: Posted by: Looch (Apr 29, 2004 11:27AM)
I read somewhere before that it is possible to hypnotise someone (if the conditions are right) instantly with a very strong delivery and tone, I beleieve the subject in the example I read was visibly nervous and very apprehensive, the hypnotist took advantage of this state, I beleieve I read this in Orman McGills encyclopedia of stage hypnosis.

my question is this, IF this is possible, then could a person be instantly hypnotised or put into a trance like state if they were angry? or aggressive?
Message: Posted by: Bambaladam (Apr 29, 2004 12:47PM)
You want to read Milton Erickson.

It's all there.

/Bamba
Message: Posted by: Mark Roberts (Apr 29, 2004 06:29PM)
There are also some very rapid inductions you can do by pulling down sharply on a persons arm and saying "sleep" at the same time.

A variation of this is standing behind the person, quickly placing your hand on their forehead, pulling gently back and saying "sleep"

In both of these, the subject must have been conditioned by suggestion beforehand and the word "sleep" must be said with authority and conviction.

I believe that both these methods are covered in McGill's Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnosis.

As has already been suggested, Erickson's work would be a good place to research as well. Look for Erickson's Handshake Induction.
Message: Posted by: Lee Darrow (Apr 29, 2004 10:18PM)
Please, folks, don't do hypnosis unless you have the training to handle it. Inducing hypnosis is the easiest part of working with the phenomenon. Handling the suggestions, being able to deal with abreactions, defining post hypnotic suggestion parameters all are things you should understand and be able to do as easily as you put on a thumb tip before you work unsupervised.

While the potential for serious damage to someone is pretty low, the probability of an awkward, scary or confusing situation, is actually pretty high. Have one of those happen in front of an audience and you are begging for a lawsuit if you don't know what you are doing.

Trust me, folks. This is how I make the majority of my income, and have for over 30 years. Get the training!

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
http://www.leedarrow.com
Message: Posted by: Mark Roberts (Apr 30, 2004 04:14AM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-29 23:18, Lee Darrow wrote:
Please, folks, don't do hypnosis unless you have the training to handle it. Inducing hypnosis is the easiest part of working with the phenomenon. Handling the suggestions, being able to deal with abreactions, defining post hypnotic suggestion parameters all are things you should understand and be able to do as easily as you put on a thumb tip before you work unsupervised.

While the potential for serious damage to someone is pretty low, the probability of an awkward, scary or confusing situation, is actually pretty high. Have one of those happen in front of an audience and you are begging for a lawsuit if you don't know what you are doing.

Trust me, folks. This is how I make the majority of my income, and have for over 30 years. Get the training!

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
http://www.leedarrow.com
[/quote]

I have to agree here, Lee.

I do have a Diploma in Hypnotherapy but have never really had the interest in doing a full Stage Hypnosis show. I do use suggestion as part of my routines and I do use pacing, leading, anchoring and embedded commands. However, I'm just not comfortable about doing Stage Hypnosis.

On stage you don't know the background of the participants and you don't know what traumas they may have been through. As Lee rightly says, if you happen to have an abreaction on stage you MUST have had the training to deal with it. Abreactions can be a frightening thing to witness the first time around, even for a trained therapist who is trying to help the client.

My above answer was only in response to the rapid induction question. However, as Lee said, if you have any intention in getting into this area of work, please, please, please, get the correct training.
Message: Posted by: Looch (Apr 30, 2004 10:56AM)
[quote]
On 2004-04-29 23:18, Lee Darrow wrote:
Please, folks, don't do hypnosis unless you have the training to handle it. Inducing hypnosis is the easiest part of working with the phenomenon. Handling the suggestions, being able to deal with abreactions, defining post hypnotic suggestion parameters all are things you should understand and be able to do as easily as you put on a thumb tip before you work unsupervised.

While the potential for serious damage to someone is pretty low, the probability of an awkward, scary or confusing situation, is actually pretty high. Have one of those happen in front of an audience and you are begging for a lawsuit if you don't know what you are doing.

Trust me, folks. This is how I make the majority of my income, and have for over 30 years. Get the training!

Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
http://www.leedarrow.com
[/quote]

lee, the question was aimed at people like you, who are more than qualified in the hypnosis field, I am not a hypnotist, ive never stated that I am, I was merely asking a question, hopefully I can get a reply...let me put it into context, If there was someone who was verbally aggressive towards you and you felt that you could be in phsyical danger, is there a method of inducing an hyponotic state into this person instantly? it may sound strange, almost comedic in a sketch, a big guy shouting and screaming @ you about to throw a punch and with a swift click of the fingers the guy stands frozen or drops to the floor asleep.....id this possible?

and NO I don't want to do this, although the possibilities are fun....
Message: Posted by: Karswell (Apr 30, 2004 11:49AM)
Doing the instant induction that Mcgill calls 'power hypnosis' would in this case be highly ineffectual- you would be trying to gain cooperation by means of authority. A highly angry and aggressive person is already resisting that and playing a status-based game with you as it is.

There are some commonly taught techniques that you could research for that exact situation, primarily:
Pacing and Leading.
Confusion technique.
Inducing Shock.
There are people who teach this, if you need to get in contact with them let me know.

Nick.
Message: Posted by: Looch (Apr 30, 2004 12:01PM)
I'm aware of a confusion technique described in "lift", can you point me in the direction of further resources for that and "inducing shock" and again let me reiterate I'm not wanting to try these out.....
Message: Posted by: mesmer (May 1, 2004 09:32PM)
I agree with nick! anyway can someone explain to me more about Abreaction? and what to do if this happen?
Message: Posted by: salsa_dancer (May 2, 2004 05:52AM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-01 22:32, mesmer wrote:
I agree with nick! anyway can someone explain to me more about Abreaction? and what to do if this happen?

[/quote]

Yeah whilst you are at it can you give us a diploma in hypnotherapy..........!!

Surely you would be better off studying the subject in full, rather than asking advice on what to do if something goes wrong on a magic website....
Message: Posted by: MIC (May 2, 2004 06:09AM)
Just out of curiosity... Where can someone study (be taught) hypnosis.. (stage hypnosis that is...) .. lets say in london. and how much does it cost?? how much time will it take and so on..

thanks
M I C
Message: Posted by: MagicalPirate (May 2, 2004 05:00PM)
I would say that calling this a magic website is very narrow minded. If you have bothered to read the details under penny for your thoughts you would have read this section is for the discussion of mentalism and hypnosis. Therefore, mesmer question is proper to ask and has been placed in the correct section.

Martin :pirate:
Message: Posted by: salsa_dancer (May 3, 2004 01:47AM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-02 18:00, MagicalPirate wrote:
I would say that calling this a magic website is very narrow minded. If you have bothered to read the details under penny for your thoughts you would have read this section is for the discussion of mentalism and hypnosis. Therefore, mesmer question is proper to ask and has been placed in the correct section.

Martin :pirate:
[/quote]

there is always one........ apologies for using the broad term of 'magic' but I was just pointing out that maybe the person that was asking what to do if someone has an abreaction should seek training rather than asking for the answers on The Magic Café - Magicians helping Magicians.... website ;)
Message: Posted by: jezza pk magic (May 3, 2004 11:04AM)
Mic,
good question there.i too would like to know more about learning this subject properly.are there any places in the sw,somewhere near bristol?college course etc.i do feel that one would have to be fully knowledged in this field before attempting to use it as an act.i have once been hypnotised on stage,by paul mckenna,but I had a few drinks that night,and came out of it half way through...luckily for me,it was seconds before he got people to do ridiculous stuff.can anybody pm me with info on where to get real training,
to go along with books I will be ordering.thanks

jezza
Message: Posted by: Mark Roberts (May 3, 2004 07:16PM)
[quote]
On 2004-05-02 06:52, salsa_dancer wrote:
Yeah whilst you are at it can you give us a diploma in hypnotherapy..........!!

Surely you would be better off studying the subject in full, rather than asking advice on what to do if something goes wrong on a magic website....
[/quote]

Sorry if I sound obtuse but I have to agree with Salsa here.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Stage Hypnosis ( and most trained hypnotherapists are).

However, if you are going to study and work in this area then I believe that you must be properly qualified.

To answer a previous question about abreactions. Abreactions are the release of supressed or repressed emotions within a subject that have been caused by (mainly)a very traumatic experience. If one of these should occur, you need to know how to deal with it in a controlled way. It is here that I believe that correct training is of the utmost importance.

To give you a few examples...what if you were to ask your subjects to imagine they were five years old ( to create an extremely funny and entertaining scenario).....

Ok....what if they had been sexually abused at five years of age? What if they witnessed their parents die in a car crash at five years of age? Get the idea?

There are many more examples of this and this is why I ask anyone interested to get the correct training. If anyone in the UK wants to know more about correct training, please send me a PM.

I do not offer training myself ( before anyone asks ) but I can point interested parties in the right direction.
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (May 6, 2004 04:15AM)
I hope this does not sound like I am slamming anyone in particular because I am not really BUT why is it that so many magicians that think "oh that lookks easy and since I can do a few magic tricks I MUSt be good at anything else I try" do think that? Mentalism as they soon find out (although some are too daft to see that too) is not so easy even if the methods are simple. They find out that they are not such good entertainers as they thought and they go back to doing magic. Now the bandwagon has changed and they are assuming that hypnosis is the way to go, which is in my opinion even more difficult to perform than mentalism. In fact, some even assume that all that is entailed is to say "you are getting sleepy", snap their fingers and they are under a so called trance. NOT possible, ev er. Despite reading in the back of a magazine that you too can have complete control over your women (apparently some magicians feel it is the only way to get that girl because the rumours of them being nerds is true) that it MUST be so. It isn't.

Mentalism is NOT magic. It is not similar either. They may share similar methods BUT they are diametrically opposite as far as philosophy goes. Hypnosis is a branch of performing arts BUT that is the ONLY similarity it may have to any of this. A good hypnotist is a brilliant entertainer BUT it has NOTHING to do with what happens to a magician. Unless you are that strong at it and unless you have the time to spend to learn this and we are not talking about reading a book and then practicing each night for an hour, DO NOT TRY IT.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
AB Stagecraft