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Topic: Underhanded by Atlas Brookings and Joshua Fletcher
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Aug 3, 2018 11:14AM)
Whenever Atlas Brookings releases a publication, it is worth taking note. So many of his works have become classics as well as in significantly advancing mentalism and its principles.

Atlas and Joshua Fletcher have a new publication. At the moment it is a download although a print version is, I gather, also planned. Being on Atlas's mailing list I was one of the first to buy and was greatly impressed.

It involves a stack of business cards and with a spectator writing or drawing on one. There is no restriction on what or where they write and, after some moments concentration, the spectator is given the stack of business cards to hold and with their written-on card concealed somewhere in the middle of the stack.

The performer, after suitable drama and build up, gradually divines the spectator's word.

If the spectator wishes, they can look through the stack of business cards they hold and will find their card buried in the middle. Absolutely nothing is amiss and the whole effect is delightfully clean and well-structured. Also the business card is not folded in any way and, apart from the writing, is no different from any of the other cards.

There is obviously a little something else to do but this is easy to accomplish and within the abilities of almost all. Everything is clearly explained and illustrated.

In addition to the Underhanded principle, Atlas describes one of his favourite and most performed routines, The Epic Triple Fail. This is strong and practical and packs a punch. There is also a Q & A routine included but, with Underhanded, you can divine all sorts including numbers, drawings, places, dates or anything else written on the card. Its effectiveness can also be seen in a TV clip of Joshua Fletcher performing Underhanded and in seeing the startled reaction of the presenters.

There are a lot of p**k methods available but what I particularly like about Underhanded is its cleanness, apparent fairness, ease to perform as well as there being no awkward or suspicious moves. You also get a full p**k and this need not be hurried.

Underhanded is practical, solid and will, I predict, become a firm favourite of many. I will definitely be using it and unreservedly recommend.

Another Atlas publication destined to become a classic.

Neil
Message: Posted by: jaizon (Aug 3, 2018 11:40AM)
Where to purchase?
Message: Posted by: George Hunter (Aug 3, 2018 12:06PM)
Josh and I are good friends, and possibly the only two performing mentalists in our area of Kentucky. He is a rising performer, an imaginative mind, and his business-card peek is destined to become one of the major enduring methods for gaining information. I think the ebook is available from Atlas Brooking's website, though I am waiting for a published copy.

George
Message: Posted by: jaizon (Aug 3, 2018 12:14PM)
I do not see it on his site.
Message: Posted by: cybercardmagic (Aug 3, 2018 02:03PM)
And where can I buy this on his site it isn't yet.

Wolfgang

Sorry I have obviously not updated and so not seen that in the meantime this question has already been asked
Message: Posted by: ed wood (Aug 4, 2018 06:10AM)
Hey Neils. So would you use this peak over a peak wallet? I think I saw you in the blink thread. Would you in a close up environment use this instead of blink?
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 4, 2018 06:29AM)
Hi Neil, thanks for your review!

To those who were looking for this, I'm sorry it wasn't available before - it was sent out last week to those subscribers on my email list. It is now available through my signature link below.

The ad copy is here:

"Why take a business card out of your wallet, have someone write or draw on it, and then put it back into your wallet? Unless the participant is giving you their business card, this makes little sense.

Underhanded is simply...



The Death of the Peek Wallet! (though obviously this doesn't apply to Blink - you should get that)


Underhanded is honestly the easiest, cleanest, most direct piece of peekery out there. It gives you a full business card peek, is easy to do, requires no gimmicks, and is just plain, full blown awesome super best number one! No nonsense, this thing is a beast, a straightforward, low tech workhorse that gives people a reason to hang on to your business cards. And there is nothing to find. You are so clean, it looks like you work for the CDC... ummm... because I'd expect those guys to be pretty fastidious about cleanliness. I could be totally wrong though and that analogy doesn't track.

But I think it does? Doesn't it?

Anyhow...

Apart from teaching the "Underhanded" method, this book comes with a number of routines, each truly refined through performance at numerous gigs. In fact, the book contains my drawing dupe, Epic Triple Fail, that isn't really a dupe but is probably one of the most powerful reveals I use (really, it makes the ladies hyperventilate... something I've always wanted to be able to say, but I mean it - they are frequently so unexpectedly and suddenly stunned that they forget to breathe and you get that sudden intake of breath and unrepeatable stream of sailor speak), as well as the Epic Q and A - a fantastic mind reading Q and A with three people that leaves EVERYONE floored.

Why buy expensive electronics or peek wallets? Use a low tech method that is truly Underhanded.

It is hard to envision a piece of mind reading that is any more direct!"

And George, I have to agree with you - Josh is fantastic in every respect! It has been my privilege to put together and share releases with some of the best people I've met - Andrew Brown, Josh Fletcher, Raven Gairloch. It is great to enjoy their friendship, and even better when we get the chance to bounce ideas back and forth, test them, refine and create with them. The Crusade was a success. The Solution was a success. Underhanded is every bit as amazing, and oh, so simple and convincing.

All the best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: jaizon (Aug 4, 2018 08:02AM)
Sorry, it's not there.
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 4, 2018 08:05AM)
It is - you're most likely seeing a cached version of the page. Try refreshing your browser ;)

Best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: cybercardmagic (Aug 4, 2018 10:10AM)
Found it on your site, is this the download version?????

Wolfgang
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 4, 2018 11:28AM)
[quote]On Aug 4, 2018, cybercardmagic wrote:
Found it on your site, is this the download version?????

Wolfgang [/quote]

Affirmative.

Best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Aug 4, 2018 11:47AM)
Sounds interesting! How much/long do you have to touch the stack with their card in it ?

Thanks
Sleepy
Message: Posted by: cybercardmagic (Aug 4, 2018 01:02PM)
Got it. Thanks

Wolfgang
Message: Posted by: Last Laugh (Aug 4, 2018 01:05PM)
How does this compare to the myriad other business card stack p**ks? Bold Business or one of it's variations for instance? What makes this different/better?
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Aug 4, 2018 01:15PM)
[quote]On Aug 4, 2018, SleepyMagic wrote:
Sounds interesting! How much/long do you have to touch the stack with their card in it ?

Thanks
Sleepy [/quote]


The beauty of this effect is that you control the pace of what happens and a variation of handlings is given. So the answer to the above is, it is your choice. I personally would not rush the performance, so re-enforcing the impression everything is fair and above board ;-)

A further advantage is that you get a full p**k so there is no restriction where the spectator writes or draws on the card. Again this need not be rushed.
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 4, 2018 02:15PM)
[quote]On Aug 4, 2018, Last Laugh wrote:
How does this compare to the myriad other business card stack p**ks? Bold Business or one of it's variations for instance? What makes this different/better? [/quote]


The first section of the book looks at other methods and why I don't use them in performance - a sort of pro and con list without tipping their processes. Bold business requires a lot more handling and moves and you often begin the reveal before your peek, then you've got to get the card back. Underhanded is much quicker and cleaner and you end clean, nothing looks tricky or funny and the cards are in their hands when you read their mind. Underhanded is also completely ungimmicked, no L/S, just normal business cards.

I hope that helps!

Best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: Mr. F (Aug 4, 2018 04:51PM)
First off, thank you Neil and George for all the kind words.

I thought I’d take a moment to point out/reemphasize the following points: the performer only handles the cards briefly, the reason for doing so is completely justified, and everything ends exactly as it should be. As soon as you get the p**k, you’re beyond reproach.

All you need is a stack of cards and something to write with. No setup. No cleanup. No reset.

Sincerely,

Joshua Fletcher
Message: Posted by: Manos Kartsakis (Aug 5, 2018 03:59AM)
Sounds like my kind of thing and with Atlas' name on it, I know this is going to be good. I will check this out later today when I get home. :)
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 5, 2018 11:11AM)
Thanks Manos - I know you'll like it.

My opinion is that if you're serious about mentalism, you need to know this peek. It really is just that solid and will, I predict, become one of the fundamentals like Acidus Novus and the center tear. Only, I think people will prefer Underhanded - I certainly do.

Best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: ed wood (Aug 5, 2018 12:10PM)
How does this look from a spectator pov?
They write on a card, then what?
Do they put it in the stack or do you?
Does it appear to go in the centre or top then covered with rest of stack?
Any fiddling/mixing after this point? (From a spectator pov)
I assume this will work with blank cards as well as business cards?
Is this just an ebook or will there be a physical release?
Can I think of any more questions?
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Aug 5, 2018 12:24PM)
You can use blank cards (make sure there is no telltale bleed of ink) or business cards.
You have a choice of handling, with the spectator putting the card in the stack or yourself. At the moment this is an download but a printed version is planned and, from a spectator's pov, everything is clear, unhurried and looks very fair and with no mixing.
Neil
Message: Posted by: ed wood (Aug 5, 2018 01:31PM)
Just put an order in. Clicked on a link from an email Atlas sent out, just noticed from the link on this thread I paid a different price, have I screwed up?
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Aug 5, 2018 02:35PM)
When will a physical.version be available
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Aug 5, 2018 02:36PM)
Also, to people who have this, will this replace your imp devices and p**k devices?

Thanks
Sleepy
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 5, 2018 02:54PM)
[quote]On Aug 5, 2018, SleepyMagic wrote:
Also, to people who have this, will this replace your imp devices and p**k devices?

Thanks
Sleepy [/quote]

It replaced mine. That's part of why I'm so confident in Underhanded.

Best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Aug 5, 2018 03:02PM)
When I received Underhanded I thought about how I could use it and came up with a routine. I am willing to share this with all who buy Underhanded and, if interested, please drop me a PM.

As proof of purchase, let me have the first name that appears on Page 3, the Introduction.

Neil
Message: Posted by: ed wood (Aug 5, 2018 03:19PM)
[quote]On Aug 5, 2018, ed wood wrote:
Just put an order in. Clicked on a link from an email Atlas sent out, just noticed from the link on this thread I paid a different price, have I screwed up? [/quote]

Hey Atlas, if you look in here. Did you get an order a couple of hours ago? Like I said I think I may have ordered through an old link and now my computer wont let me send any emails. Stupid computers!
Message: Posted by: tomd (Aug 5, 2018 04:30PM)
I've ordered, just waiting for the product to be sent over via email. Looking forward to this, and I'll review at a later stage.
Message: Posted by: Last Laugh (Aug 5, 2018 06:23PM)
Okay, I took the plunge.

When I first started to read the explanation, I was a bit disappointed because the core method is the same as a Docc Hilford release (one that is much less expensive, I might add). However as I read on, I realized that there is more to Underhanded, namely the time and motivation for the p**k, and the fact that you are clean immediately after you get it. I actually did not care for the Docc release in question, but I do like Underhanded.

I can definitely see using this. The fact that you don't need to do any clean up at the end is especially nice and differentiates it from most of the other business card stack p**ks. That and you don't need any extra ruses to do the actual act, it's nicely built into the natural actions of the method.

This works well with double blank cards, so if you are in the Creasey MMM school, this will fit right in.

It is a bit expensive IMO. It's not the kind of thing where this is some super special secret that you'd like to keep out of the public's hands, it's just a nicely routined p**k using known methods. But then, cost is really relative to how useful something is to you. If I end up performing this regularly at gigs, then it will have been more than worth it. It does have some nice advantages over other similar methods, so I will definitely give it a try.

Further, there are some nice effects included. Atlas' mini Q&A is pretty cool and teaches some other strategies that you might find useful.

It's definitely a very good release. Whether the price is worth it to you is going to be relative.
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Aug 5, 2018 08:40PM)
I'll post full thoughts later, but this is simplicity itself and so effective thanks to the details Atlas has added.

I LOVE his "triple epic fail" approach. I know that will leave an amazing impression on the spectator. It seems impossible.

His Q&A is also wonderful and uses a mix of methods which totally cancel out the possibility of one ahead.

Overall, it is a great booklet with loads of valuable information!

Madison
Message: Posted by: Mr. Dural (Aug 6, 2018 03:48AM)
Here are my thoughts :

GOOD:
You can do this at any time - if you have business cards on you
You are not in a hurry to peek
You get a full peek
The move is not hard
One more method to getting a peek
Appears Natural - should glide passed the spectator if executed smoothly.

NOT SO GOOD :
I have seen this idea before
You will have to be a little careful if you're surrounded

BAD
This is overpriced.


I am sure that Atlas is sincere when he says this replaces other peeks, electronics etc for him. I don't think that will be true for everyone. This is a nice addition to any mentalists skillset but the price is ambitious.

7.5 / 10
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 6, 2018 04:41AM)
Thanks to everyone above for sharing their perspective so far, and I'm especially pleased to hear all the positive comments both here and via email.

As far as pricing is concerned - I completely understand that pricing is entirely subjective. More so when a buyer in one area of the world is held thrall to the vagaries of the currency exchange rate in another. If this saves you on a peek device or piece of electronics, it is a drop in the bucket. And so perception of value for money is always arrived at by an application of a different standard based upon who you are.

What I can say is that since 2012, I've always offered my work at a discount upon release. If you want to be kept up to date on releases, feel free to sign up for my mailing list using the link here:

http://eepurl.com/duVQ8z

The only emails I ever send to this list are announcements of new products and a link to purchase them at a discount. And, barring any unforeseen complication, you'll typically only get an email once every six months to a year.

Thanks again for all the great feedback!

All the best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: Mr. Dural (Aug 6, 2018 12:37PM)
I just want to post something in addition to my review.

Atlas contacted me and offered me a refund to bring the price to what I think is fair ,or a one of his releases.

Instead of taking a refund or a free book I would like to instead take this opportunity to publicly thank Atlas for being a gentleman, and understanding that spending money on magic is not as easy for some as it is for others. That is integrity! This means a lot to me , especially in light of the travesty that was Comprised/breached.

I wish more creators, consultants and emo -fan boys would follow the example of Atlas.

Thank you Atlas. No refund or free book is required.
Message: Posted by: C-suite magic (Aug 6, 2018 12:45PM)
Wow, great business acumen and exceptional customer service from Atlas. Love hearing these stories.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Aug 6, 2018 01:35PM)
Now I would certainly never say an item is overpriced as I respect every creators right to value their work as they see fit.
But I can say that I was a bit surprised when I saw the price of this, and I don't think I am the only one.
However, I am sure that to many it will be more than worth it.
Message: Posted by: Mr. Dural (Aug 6, 2018 02:24PM)
[quote]On Aug 6, 2018, C-suite magic wrote:
Wow, great business acumen and exceptional customer service from Atlas. Love hearing these stories. [/quote]

You love hearing these stories ? Why didn't you speak to the rubbish we received with compromised/Breached? As I remember it, you were on the side of the shills
Message: Posted by: C-suite magic (Aug 6, 2018 02:26PM)
I use that material so have no beef with the creator.
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 6, 2018 03:20PM)
[quote]On Aug 6, 2018, Mr. Dural wrote:
[quote]On Aug 6, 2018, C-suite magic wrote:
Wow, great business acumen and exceptional customer service from Atlas. Love hearing these stories. [/quote]

You love hearing these stories ? Why didn't you speak to the rubbish we received with compromised/Breached? As I remember it, you were on the side of the shills [/quote]

Just ignore his / her posts.
Message: Posted by: C-suite magic (Aug 6, 2018 03:34PM)
I do.
Message: Posted by: Manos Kartsakis (Aug 6, 2018 04:06PM)
I just finished reading Underhanded and I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised. To be honest, when I read what the basic move was I said to myself, "There must be more to it than just that", and it was! Atlas goes to great lengths to explain not just the move but the psychology behind the routine and all the fine details that make it work. Besides the basic routine and the P**k, Atlas describes 2 more routines; Triple Epic Fail and Epic Q and A.
I loved both routines and to be honest, the ideas described in those routines can be used even without the Underhanded p**k (in case you still have a different preference). I remember Atlas sharing a story about a stage version similar to Triple Epic Fail when he was performing at a college (I am not sure where I remember this from, it might have been from his podcast with Looch and Ken Dyne) and I've loved the idea ever since. Whatismore, besides method, I really liked Atlas' approach to Q and A and I was inspired to explore this idea further in my own work.
In conclusion, I will try this p**k method on some occasions, probably with a few changes to make it suit my performance style better. I am sure it will fly by lay people as it is simple to execute but deceptive at the same time but I got a lot more than just a p**k from all the additional context. I am happy I picked this up. :)
Good job Atlas and Joshua
Message: Posted by: Mr. F (Aug 6, 2018 08:42PM)
I'm so glad that people are enjoying Underhanded and appreciate all the kind things that have been said about it. I'll fully acknowledge my bias in saying so, but I truly believe this is an amazing p**k, and as stated above, everything Atlas has added to my original idea is wonderful.

I own numerous wallets and have explored many p**k options over the past several years, but I can honestly say that none of them have served me as well as Underhanded. In fact, since developing the p**k, I no longer take anything to closeup gigs except business cards and a pen. Between the versatility of the method itself, and the routines and ideas included within the book, a person could do an entire closeup gig with nothing else. I say this with confidence because I have personally done so.

Thanks again for the interest and the feedback.

Joshua Fletcher
Message: Posted by: tricky360 (Aug 7, 2018 01:34AM)
I bought Underhanded and have to say how simple it is to perform, and it certainly packs a punch. The spectator puts their own drawing into the stack of cards and you already know what it is, what more could you ask for. Nothing is gimmicked and no set up. Is it overpriced? It's subjective. If you consider the price of electronics and other p##k devices on the market (that could fail at any time) than no.

Am I going to use it? To right I am.

Incidentally I shared an idea with Atlas which you can use with Underhanded and he loved it, I'm happy to share with you guys. Just provide proof of purchase and iin-box me. (First name in the introduction)

Regards

Michael.
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 7, 2018 08:16AM)
[quote]On Aug 7, 2018, tricky360 wrote:


Incidentally I shared an idea with Atlas which you can use with Underhanded and he loved it, I'm happy to share with you guys. Just provide proof of purchase and iin-box me. (First name in the introduction)

[/quote]

I had to chime in to say that this was really clever. Earlier on when I was mulling this over, I had a working of this - in fact, it was my original intention - but there was a problem that I couldn't solve, so I scrapped it in favor of the handling that is in the book. Then, after he read the book but before it was released, Andrew Brown said to me - "Hey, why don't you do this?!" And I said to him, "Because of this." And he went, "Oh yeah. Forgot about that." (Think about spreading the cards later - that's the problem).

And then Mick came up with this idea and it does use a gimmicked little bit, but it's not much and lets you do what both Andrew and I originally had in mind. I have to say, it is pretty smooth and worth talking to Mick about as it is a nice side option to know about.

At the very least, you'll be able to make sense of the otherwise unintelligible gibberish above.


All the best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: mxfrncs (Aug 7, 2018 11:09AM)
I thought this was great value for money. A brilliant all round utility peak that makes complete sense. Leaves the performer completely clean, super easy to do. Far cheaper than any peak or impression device. Definitely a worker with awesome routines included. You can tell the effects inside come right out their working repertoire. Good work guys👍
Message: Posted by: Mr. F (Aug 7, 2018 12:41PM)
Thanks mxfrncs! Glad you are happy with your purchase.

As Atlas stated above, Michael’s idea is a great addition. Coincidentally, I had the exact same idea that it seems Atlas and Andrew had, but I never shared it for the same reasons they never moved forward with it. Michael has found the solution. If you own Underhanded, I would definitely check it out.

Joshua Fletcher
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Aug 7, 2018 02:43PM)
Underhanded is PURE GENIUS! You have thought through every minute detail, contingency, motivation and justification in what can only be described as the full business card peek PERFECTED. There are many business card peeks on the market, and I think I have purchased most of them. Some are good, others okay, some not so great.

Underhanded is the full business card peek PERFECTED.

No more peek wallets! No more CTs!

For those who have suggested the price is a little high, everyone of course is entitled to their own opinion. And everyone's situation is different to be sure. In my opinion, Underhanded is a STEAL. In an age when far too many people slap together an e-book with what usually amounts to a slight modification of an existing move or concept and little else, Underhanded delivers something truly valuable: a simple, highly useful, very deceptive and easy to execute full business card peek that I know I will use for the rest of my life.

Thank you for releasing Underhanded. This is a high quality release.

I think I can now say with a high degree of confidence my days of buying peek wallets are now over.
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Aug 7, 2018 02:50PM)
Getting tempted to buy this...Im just not sure if it will replace my imp wallet....to those who have it, can it look/be perceived as clean as an imp wallet (froma spectators point of view)?


thanks
sleepy
Message: Posted by: Last Laugh (Aug 7, 2018 02:52PM)
[quote]On Aug 7, 2018, Stunninger wrote:


I think I can now say with a high degree of confidence my days of buying peek wallets are now over. [/quote]


Hmm, not sure if I believe that ! ;)


Underhanded has really grown on me over the last couple days as I practice it and add some of my own wrinkles.

It is really an excellent p**k.
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Aug 7, 2018 04:14PM)
[quote]On Aug 7, 2018, Last Laugh wrote:
[quote]On Aug 7, 2018, Stunninger wrote:


I think I can now say with a high degree of confidence my days of buying peek wallets are now over. [/quote]


Hmm, not sure if I believe that ! ;)


[/quote]

:)
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Aug 7, 2018 04:22PM)
Something else to add about underhanded. It's fun and easy to do. Maybe fun because it's really easy. And yet, so deceptive.

It's a truly great feeling when they place the card in the middle of the stack and you are simultaneously instantly clean. There is nothing to find and their card is in the middle of the stack.
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Aug 7, 2018 04:36PM)
[quote]On Aug 7, 2018, Stunninger wrote:
Something else to add about underhanded. It's fun and easy to do. Maybe fun because it's really easy. And yet, so deceptive.

It's a truly great feeling when they place the card in the middle of the stack and you are simultaneously instantly clean. There is nothing to find and their card is in the middle of the stack. [/quote]


What's the difference in handling when the spectator puts the card in the middle compared to when you do it?

Thanks
Sleepy
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Aug 7, 2018 04:56PM)
[quote]On Aug 7, 2018, SleepyMagic wrote:
[quote]On Aug 7, 2018, Stunninger wrote:
Something else to add about underhanded. It's fun and easy to do. Maybe fun because it's really easy. And yet, so deceptive.

It's a truly great feeling when they place the card in the middle of the stack and you are simultaneously instantly clean. There is nothing to find and their card is in the middle of the stack. [/quote]


What's the difference in handling when the spectator puts the card in the middle compared to when you do it?

Thanks
Sleepy [/quote]


Honestly, the whole handling is designed for the spectator putting their card into the middle. That's kind of what the entire premise is built on. If you do it yourself, you're missing out on perhaps the best feature of the peek.

Madison
Message: Posted by: magicinsight (Aug 7, 2018 04:59PM)
I just purchased this. It is a terrific method and routining. I think all discussions in an open forum about procedures should be restrained or at least reserved for the Inner Thoughts section.
Michael
Message: Posted by: MadisonH (Aug 7, 2018 06:50PM)
This is a very very small point, and it may have even been mentioned in the pdf,

But after you get your peek, turn your head away and say “I won’t look.”

They’ll remember it as you being turned away the whole time. Just keep them in your perepheral to see if they do the thing which suggests the alternative route.

Madison
Message: Posted by: dr.nick (Aug 7, 2018 07:39PM)
Bravo to Mr. F and Atlas! As a budding mentalist and previous customer of Atlas, I am never disappointed in his original or collaborated material. I actually paid full price because my email had changed and I didn’t receive the early adopter discount. Never the less, I am extremely pleased to own this. This is a work horse and the subtleties and routines take it to another level. Best of all, it’s not technically difficult which encourages me to use this after the requisite practice. Compared to the untold amount of magic junk I’ve purchased (don’t tell my wife) over the past 45 years, this is solid gold.
,
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 8, 2018 06:45AM)
Thanks mxfrncs, Stunninger, Last Laugh, Madison, and Dr. Nick - It is great to hear your feedback!

I really 100% stand behind Underhanded and I'm so glad you're jazzed about it too! Stunninger described it as the "full business card peek PERFECTED", and that is how I feel about it too. You really don't need anything else - especially when presentationally those extras don't make that much sense. And Madison's right as far as the reframing too.

I'm also seriously impressed that Dr. Nick has made only four posts in fourteen years and one of them was for this! That's gotta count for something!

All the best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: Mr. F (Aug 8, 2018 06:26PM)
Words on a green screen can’t truly express the gratitude and joy I feel from all the positive feedback Underhanded has received. I have spent more money and hours of practice on other p**k methods than I care to recount, and I can honestly say that I prefer Underhanded over them all. It has literally solved every problem I have with all the preexisting methods I have explored.

No presentational restrictions. No awkward moves. Amazing angles. All the time in the world to p**k.

Thank you to everyone that has taken the time to comment here and in private. It means a lot!

Sincerely,

Josh
Message: Posted by: 252life (Aug 9, 2018 01:37AM)
Just ordered and ready to dig in :)
Message: Posted by: j100taylor (Aug 9, 2018 07:45AM)
I also think this was overpriced. As someone who developed numerous ways to peek business cards using card moves - this one was nothing special - and in fact uses one the the least non-fooling card moves there is. As part of a book this would have been ok - but not a $50 standalone effect. I'm glad everyone is happy with their purchase though.
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Aug 9, 2018 07:51AM)
[quote]On Aug 9, 2018, j100taylor wrote:
I also think this was overpriced. As someone who developed numerous ways to peek business cards using card moves - this one was nothing special - and in fact uses one the the least non-fooling card moves there is. As part of a book this would have been ok - but not a $50 standalone effect. I'm glad everyone is happy with their purchase though. [/quote]

Purchased this yesterday and I agree. There's been a lot of thought behind this no doubt, but I find the price to be too expensive for what it is.

But again it's subjective.

Sleepy
Message: Posted by: Dreda (Aug 9, 2018 08:11AM)
It's like Docc Hilford's boudoir card reading. For those who already have Docc's version, look at the Last Laugh's review to make an informed purchase.
Message: Posted by: tomd (Aug 9, 2018 12:04PM)
**If you'd like to skip the details, please to the 'final verdict' section below**

Regrettably, I share the same view as the recent previous posters, this isn't for me. It's hard writing a review without performing said peek 50 or so times in front of real people first, but in this case I'm probably not ever going to reach that number of people, as I have already concluded that I prefer other peeks to this. I've performed it a few times, and yes, it's fooling, but I'll break down why this isn't my preferred method below. This review will deal with pricing also, which is normally a difficult aspect to cover, but I'll do my best, so let's cover that first:

I'm going to convert everything into USD, making it easier to understand for the majority of people. for roughly $50 you are getting the basic method for the peek, atlas' handling of this peek (including a presentation that is intergral to it), a new type of reveal for a peek, and a Q&A based on the peek. You also get Mr. Fletchers notes on the subject. The PDF runs 32 pages. At this point, it's extremely hard to evaluate worth without a subjective opinion on the peek itself. But, when I compare this to other products it becomes a bit easier to compare objectively.

Take Switchcraft as an example: 19.95 USD, over 900 pages, including the original acidus novus peek, countless contributions on the peek from external sources, and an ungodly amount of material on almost every aspect of pieces of paper used in mentalism (switches, steals, ditches, peeks, routines, Q&A's, the list goes on forever).

OK WAIT!

I understand not exactly a fair comparison. You could compare switchcraft to any modern release and it would appear that the modern release is over priced, switchcraft is underpriced by a large margin. Underhanded is actually priced fairly compared to releases in a similar vein. I use this as a comparison point for two specific reasons:

1) if you're a consumer, it's important to see how far you're money can go when investing into this art. EVERYONE in this thread will likely agree that swtichcraft is one of the vital resources for study. If you're willing to pay $50 for this release, chip in another $20 and get both. this first point was dedicated for those of you who haven't got swtichcraft yet, my second point is more important,
2) atlas directly mentioned acidus Novus on page 1 on this thread, and I must say this was the reason why I bought underhanded. I learned the basically method for Novus in switchcraft, and I was sold when he said that underhanded would become a classic like Novus, or a centre tear. This is where I Segway into the technique itself:

its a solid technique, that will likely do the job for you, no questions. My personal issue with it is that (this is very subjective) the main things it solves are elements I don't care much about solving. Firstly, it's ungimmicked.. if the gimmick is good, and does the job in an incredibly clean way, then I'm carrying it with me wherever I go. Secondly, underhanded is examinable.. if I feel like something needs to be examined by a spectator after the performance, I've failed. It's not really that much of a benefit in my eyes, because nothing is getting examined anyway. Thirdly, you end clean. Well, I kind of want to avoid ever going back to the billet they wrote on anyway, sort of try and present this as a mind to mind thing. Ending clean is irrelevant to me. I ideally want to do away with them writing down anything in the first place, by never mentioning it again... HAVING SAID THIS, objectively, this are benefits. I don't dismiss them out right. Especially point one about gimmicks, it makes it way easier to walk into a room with just pieces of paper.

Underhanded has this moment of potential failure built in.. and this is where Atlas steps in. His variation on presentation does away with the failure that may occur once in a while, in fact he embraces it, he full on encourages it. Most people who have reviewed this product like the idea, I personally don't. In order to have this moment work, you have to use a certain presentational angle (just justify this moment if it occurs), and if this moment occurs you are directly showing your audience you are using sleight of hand.

Hey, it works for atlas very well, but I can't envision it working for me. It would have been nice to see this moment (or the whole routine) on video, as through the PDF you can feel Atlas' passion for the peek and his presentation, I couldn't personally see it. But by actually seeing it, it might have helped me understand. I'm dyslexic, so it takes me a few read throughs to understand the authors intend, and even longer to write a review like this. A video normally helps me in this regard.

Acidus Novus remains my peek for stage. For close up? Maybe with my own thinking applied to this peek I'll use it. But to be honest I have my own business card peek that I'm more comfortable with that I feel is more deceptive.

The triple fail reveal is interesting. Can't say I'll ever use it, but it is indeed a pretty neat idea, with a logical explanation as to why it works. This reveal can be applied to any type of peek FYI.

If you like the peek, the Epic Q&A is for you as well. It's great that they included this.

**FINAL VERDICT**

The peek is based on an old and basic sleight of hand move. If you feel like the structure of the move and the reason why it exists is risky, Atlas offers a way to embrace that risk. They've clearly gone to considerable lengths to highlight why this peek works so well, and through the PDF you could feel the passion behind it. This was nice for me, I've read one to many PDFs where that isn't the case. It's non-gimmciked, examinable, and you end clean. If that's what you are looking for in a peek, this might be for you. Another note to consider: it's a full card peek, and it isn't a rushed one either. You have sometime to read the info. It's not a delayed peek (cassidys favourite type), but it's not centre tear levels of time.

If you're a card guy (like myself, 12 years of experience), you might dismiss this release. Or at the very least, feel like it's overpriced. I know personally that have ample ways to achieve the same end goal. They might be a bit more advanced move wise compared to underhanded, but also a bit cleaner and direct. What I will say is that it has got my creative juices flowing, and I won't be entirely ditching the idea. It has also spurned me on to work on my own way to use sleight of hand for mentalism.

With this release, I would have loved some real life performance videos WITH the peek included. We only got the reveal (the peek done pre show). This would have totally allowed me to see what Atlas was trying to convey with his presentation. Unfortunately most people aren't like me, so I can't expect to be catered for.

All the added extras are a great inclusion. I can't see anyone walking away not getting anything from this release. But I can see people feeling it's overpriced.

Side note: it was cool seeing Mr. Fletcher on TV, his demeanour is fantastic and I enjoyed his performance and interaction with the hosts. And I love his accent.

Thanks all,

Tomas
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 10, 2018 07:13AM)
Hi everyone,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts - it was pointed out that it doesn't require any difficult moves, which I view as a definite plus. When I'm performing, I like to leave behind any card moves that belong in the realm of the magician. That's a huge part of why I love this so much!

Now Tom's review was pretty epic itself - thanks Tomas for sharing all your thoughts. You did mention three points that I wanted to give you my thoughts on:

[quote]On Aug 9, 2018, tomd wrote:

It's a solid technique, that will likely do the job for you, no questions. My personal issue with it is that (this is very subjective) the main things it solves are elements I don't care much about solving. Firstly, it's ungimmicked.. if the gimmick is good, and does the job in an incredibly clean way, then I'm carrying it with me wherever I go. Secondly, underhanded is examinable.. if I feel like something needs to be examined by a spectator after the performance, I've failed. It's not really that much of a benefit in my eyes, because nothing is getting examined anyway. Thirdly, you end clean. Well, I kind of want to avoid ever going back to the billet they wrote on anyway, sort of try and present this as a mind to mind thing. Ending clean is irrelevant to me. I ideally want to do away with them writing down anything in the first place, by never mentioning it again... HAVING SAID THIS, objectively, this are benefits. I don't dismiss them out right. Especially point one about gimmicks, it makes it way easier to walk into a room with just pieces of paper.[/quote]

1. Gimmicks - I perform so frequently that when I know how to do something without gimmicks, it really makes it much easier to get ready for and work a gig. There is no preparation, and no LIMIT on the number of times I can present something. If there is a gimmicked way to do something and an ungimmicked way, if the ungimmicked version is just as clean, I will always prefer the latter.

2. Examinable - I fully agree with you. If you've done the job right, nobody should be suspicious or want to look things over. But, on the one hand, knowing that something is examinable ensures that you don't telegraph any nervous energy in relation to the thing you've used. And, on the other hand, at gigs, you find that people are often pretty "handsy" (it is true - I can't tell you how many times big sweaty men have picked me up and kissed me on the cheek in delight) and, as you're coming across as friendly and cheerful, people often feel they have license to just grab things and have a look regardless of what you'd prefer - especially when they are skeptical. In those moments, it is truly a relief that there is nothing to find.

3. Ending Clean - I've got no beef with this statement either, except on a business level. You've given them your business card. You want them to keep that business card. And then you want them to use it! So whenever I use business cards, my aim is always to have that person keep it - otherwise, why use them at all? Any old scrap of paper would do instead. In this situation, when they go back to keep the card, they need to find it where it ought to be. And when they do, you get the chance to gain them as a customer in the future.

So, anyhow, those are my thoughts. On a lot of levels - including as a businessman - Underhanded was the perfect fit and that's part of why Tomas so rightly pointed out my enthusiasm for it.

All the best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: JanForster (Aug 10, 2018 10:43AM)
To be honest, it might be for some of us a good technique for a peek; no doubt about it, but it is also always a thing of personal taste, besides the fact that some handlings are (generally) simply wrong. I personal do not like at all any handlings which look like handling a deck of playing cards, and it doesn't matter if you use business cards instead. Unfortunately, here I feel exactly that, besides the fact that the basic sleight is a sleight which I never liked in card magic as well, I simply and always avoided and replaced it by another sleight to achieve the same result. So, it is not my thing; and as always, I do not care about whether it uses ungimmicked "props" or is repeatable immediately again. This is (for me) no measure for a good method at all, it is only a marketing tool, most of the time helping to sell things to the more unexperienced consumer. I do not mind to take a lot of work in order to get a really clean and undetectable peek. Jan
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Aug 10, 2018 03:21PM)
Everyone has their own unique style and preferences, to be sure. And I respect everyone's right to their opinion.

I admire Atlas' gentlemanly response above.

For me, Underhanded is a perfect fit. I love that I can pick up a small stack of ungimmicked, ungaffed business cards and perform a very entertaining routine that uses a totally deceptive peek and end completely clean. I know ending clean is not important to some, but I love it.

For those who have commented that Underhanded is similar to the Boudoir Card Reading, there definitely are some similarities, mainly with respect to the sleight used. But Underhanded has important differences that I consider significant improvements.

Just my opinion, but I remain convinced Underhanded is the full business card peek - PERFECTED.
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 11, 2018 11:52AM)
Thanks for your thoughts guys - for anyone who loves simple, direct mentalism - this will be an ideal fit.

All the best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Aug 12, 2018 08:19AM)
My addiction to peek wallets has officially been cured as a result of learning and using Underhanded.

This was proven to me when I looked at an admittedly beautiful new wallet recently released. In the past, I would have just bought it. But now my perspective has changed. I can look at a new peek wallet and admire its beauty, craftsmanship and workings, but the urge to buy is gone.
Message: Posted by: Mr. F (Aug 13, 2018 11:44AM)
Tomas, thank you for the compliments regarding my performance and my accent ;)

Just to provide a little background, Underhanded was developed to alleviate a few issues I personally encountered when performing closeup/mix and mingle gigs. For the longest time, Hollow was my go-to p**k. While I never had anyone want to examine the cards, people frequently wanted to compare drawings when performing a dupe routine. I agree that it is not ideal to move away from a written piece of info, only to return to it at the end of a routine. When doing a drawing dupe, however, I personally believe this is a natural progression. With Hollow, it is possible to retrieve the participant’s card. Although, it is quite awkward.

Another issue is reset. When I am hired to provide closeup entertainment, it is important that I hit as many groups as possible. This often only leaves the time it takes me to walk from one table to the next to prepare for the next performance. If a card wasn’t retrieved during the previous performance, it has to be done in this short transition, while walking. Again, this can be done, albeit awkward. Apart from this, there is a continuous repositioning of cards that must take place.

I have nothing against gimmicks and have used plenty in the past. However, I never liked having a Hollow stack in one pocket, a regular stack in another (to replace cards, perform Sneak Thief, etc.), a regular marker in this pocket, a gimmicked one in this pocket...(you get the idea). I love the ease and freedom of having nothing more than business cards and something to write with. I don’t have to worry if my i*p is cleared and ready. I don’t have to try and remember which pocket something is in. I don’t have to walk around with bulging pockets, looking like I’m packing heat at a corporate function.

I just wanted to clarify that Underhanded was never developed with the intent to sell it. It was created to provide a solution, and it has for me, Atlas, and countless others. Heck, it even brought one man out of the depths of wallet addiction ;) (Glad you’re enjoying the p**k, Stunninger!)

Thanks again to everyone that has purchased Underhanded and taken the time try it out.

Josh
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 14, 2018 11:00AM)
Warren T. Has some truly innovative presentations using Underhanded that he has shared with Josh and myself. I've recently had the chance to sit and read them through in their entirety and they are thoroughly impressive.

One approach allows you to divine a number of things from a single use of Underhanded, and the other lets you reveal several people's drawings at once after a single use of Underhanded. I've never seen this latter presentational idea before and have to say that it is excellent.

And very pleased, Stunninger, to hear that you have a few extra bucks in your pocket because of Underhanded. Take it from a couple of busy, knowledgeable, and experienced performers - after individual searches spanning nearly a decade each, Underhanded is what we now use - and there are unimpeachable reasons for this fervor :)

All the best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: videoman (Aug 14, 2018 02:09PM)
Atlas, this may be a small point but you should have information on your product website which makes it clear what the product is and how it will be delivered.
In many cases you use the terminology “book” but is it an e-book or a physical book?

If digital, will it be a download or will I be emailed either a link or the item itself?
How long until I receive it?
Does your system process orders automatically or do you need to manually do it?
If you need do it then that could be a fairly long wait especially if there is a time change involved.

After placing an order should I expect to receive an order confirmation? If so, when?
Again, is this done automatically or does it require someone to manually do it?

This is just basic information that any online retailer should make clear to their customers.
If it is there I could not find it and if I couldn’t then it’s likely that others couldn’t as well.

I mention these things not as criticisms but as suggestions.
Message: Posted by: dave_matkin (Aug 14, 2018 02:54PM)
[quote]On Aug 14, 2018, videoman wrote:
Atlas, this may be a small point but you should have information on your product website which makes it clear what the product is and how it will be delivered.
In many cases you use the terminology “book” but is it an e-book or a physical book?

If digital, will it be a download or will I be emailed either a link or the item itself?
How long until I receive it?
Does your system process orders automatically or do you need to manually do it?
If you need do it then that could be a fairly long wait especially if there is a time change involved.

After placing an order should I expect to receive an order confirmation? If so, when?
Again, is this done automatically or does it require someone to manually do it?

This is just basic information that any online retailer should make clear to their customers.
If it is there I could not find it and if I couldn’t then it’s likely that others couldn’t as well.

I mention these things not as criticisms but as suggestions. [/quote]

erm.... I am not sure but I think in the UK there was a law change in Ebooks sales and how they are delivered. I know Ken Dyne stopped selling ebooks and Michael Murrey emails them direct. But I didn't really read the "the law is changing" email at the time. Maybe I should have...
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Aug 14, 2018 04:32PM)
[quote]On Aug 9, 2018, Dreda wrote:
It's like Docc Hilford's boudoir card reading. For those who already have Docc's version, look at the Last Laugh's review to make an informed purchase. [/quote]
Excellent find! Check out Docc's work from 2012 to see if you are comfortable with this card sleight in the first place.
Message: Posted by: Ubernutz (Aug 14, 2018 05:25PM)
[quote]On Aug 14, 2018, Atlas wrote:
Warren T. Has some truly innovative presentations using Underhanded that he has shared with Josh and myself. I've recently had the chance to sit and read them through in their entirety and they are thoroughly impressive.

One approach allows you to divine a number of things from a single use of Underhanded, and the other lets you reveal several people's drawings at once after a single use of Underhanded. I've never seen this latter presentational idea before and have to say that it is excellent.

And very pleased, Stunninger, to hear that you have a few extra bucks in your pocket because of Underhanded. Take it from a couple of busy, knowledgeable, and experienced performers - after individual searches spanning nearly a decade each, Underhanded is what we now use - and there are unimpeachable reasons for this fervor :)

Are you making these alternate routines avail to purchasers of Underhanded?
All the best,

Atlas [/quote]
Message: Posted by: Last Laugh (Aug 14, 2018 07:54PM)
[quote]On Aug 14, 2018, Nicolino wrote:
[quote]On Aug 9, 2018, Dreda wrote:
It's like Docc Hilford's boudoir card reading. For those who already have Docc's version, look at the Last Laugh's review to make an informed purchase. [/quote]
Excellent find! Check out Docc's work from 2012 to see if you are comfortable with this card sleight in the first place. [/quote]

To be fair, Docc has given permission and is credited. Also, there is more to Underhanded than Docc's BCR. Underhanded has more going on and ends clean.
Message: Posted by: Nicolino (Aug 15, 2018 03:33AM)
Fair enough. But still a good "preview" if you already own one and consider buying the other.
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Aug 15, 2018 11:38AM)
[quote]On Aug 14, 2018, Last Laugh wrote:
[quote]On Aug 14, 2018, Nicolino wrote:
[quote]On Aug 9, 2018, Dreda wrote:
It's like Docc Hilford's boudoir card reading. For those who already have Docc's version, look at the Last Laugh's review to make an informed purchase. [/quote]
Excellent find! Check out Docc's work from 2012 to see if you are comfortable with this card sleight in the first place. [/quote]

To be fair, Docc has given permission and is credited. Also, there is more to Underhanded than Docc's BCR. Underhanded has more going on and ends clean. [/quote]

I was so pleased to see in the manuscript not only crediting but permission. This really is the standard all creators of new releases should follow. Do your research, ask others for input (lots of very experienced, knowledgeable folks here on the Café), find out what else has been released that might be similar in certain ways, and different in others. Then seek permission from earlier creators BEFORE releasing the new offering, as Atlas has done. Assuming of course the previous creators are still living. If they are not, then I'm not sure how seeking permission would work. Maybe through their family?
Message: Posted by: clairvoyant (Aug 15, 2018 01:01PM)
[quote]On Aug 15, 2018, Stunninger wrote:
I was so pleased to see in the manuscript not only crediting but permission. This really is the standard all creators of new releases should follow. Do your research, ask others for input (lots of very experienced, knowledgeable folks here on the Café), find out what else has been released that might be similar in certain ways, and different in others. Then seek permission from earlier creators BEFORE releasing the new offering, as Atlas has done. Assuming of course the previous creators are still living. If they are not, then I'm not sure how seeking permission would work. Maybe through their family? [/quote]

Seance?
Message: Posted by: NeverMind (Aug 16, 2018 01:17PM)
[quote]On Aug 15, 2018, clairvoyant wrote:
[quote]On Aug 15, 2018, Stunninger wrote:
I was so pleased to see in the manuscript not only crediting but permission. This really is the standard all creators of new releases should follow. Do your research, ask others for input (lots of very experienced, knowledgeable folks here on the Café), find out what else has been released that might be similar in certain ways, and different in others. Then seek permission from earlier creators BEFORE releasing the new offering, as Atlas has done. Assuming of course the previous creators are still living. If they are not, then I'm not sure how seeking permission would work. Maybe through their family? [/quote]

Seance? [/quote]


I almost spilled my coffee laughing....good one, Clairvoyant :rotf:
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 21, 2018 10:11AM)
[quote]On Aug 14, 2018, Ubernutz wrote:
[quote]On Aug 14, 2018, Atlas wrote:
Warren T. Has some truly innovative presentations using Underhanded that he has shared with Josh and myself. I've recently had the chance to sit and read them through in their entirety and they are thoroughly impressive.

One approach allows you to divine a number of things from a single use of Underhanded, and the other lets you reveal several people's drawings at once after a single use of Underhanded. I've never seen this latter presentational idea before and have to say that it is excellent.

And very pleased, Stunninger, to hear that you have a few extra bucks in your pocket because of Underhanded. Take it from a couple of busy, knowledgeable, and experienced performers - after individual searches spanning nearly a decade each, Underhanded is what we now use - and there are unimpeachable reasons for this fervor :)

Are you making these alternate routines avail to purchasers of Underhanded?
All the best,

Atlas [/quote] [/quote]

Sorry - I missed the question at the end of the quote on my first reading!!

Yes, I am happy to do this.

Best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Aug 27, 2018 05:42PM)
One thing I noticed while practicing Underhanded in front of a mirror is you can execute the complete handling in slow motion and the peek is as undetectable as at full speed. Not that you would need or want to perform it in slow motion, but it goes to how deceptive the method truly is.

I never liked tearing-up my business cards (I know, different topic, discussed ad nauseam). Problem solved.

Also never liked folding my business cards or having the spectator write in one corner. Problems again solved.

Prior to Underhanded I came up with my own unpublished full business card peek that I thought was near-perfect. And is quite good, but does require some minor preparation. Underhanded is superior. Different method, different handling completely. Zero prep.

I've decided to sell off my collection of peek wallets now.
Message: Posted by: Last Laugh (Aug 27, 2018 07:53PM)
[quote]On Aug 27, 2018, Stunninger wrote:


I've decided to sell off my collection of peek wallets now. [/quote]

Surely not the Jaks!


Also side note for other Underhanded purchasers. I've decided I prefer a slightly different handling of the first 'move'. It feels more natural to me. I'd be happy to share if anyone wants to PM. Please include in the PM the last word on the 'Introduction' page so I can verify purchase.
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Aug 27, 2018 08:32PM)
[quote]On Aug 27, 2018, Last Laugh wrote:
[quote]On Aug 27, 2018, Stunninger wrote:


I've decided to sell off my collection of peek wallets now. [/quote]

Surely not the Jaks!

[/quote]

:) Yeah, not the Jaks or the Complete Peeks. I have a few of each and probably won't part with them.
Message: Posted by: phedonbilek (Aug 28, 2018 05:17AM)
I love peeks. The idea of having a stack of business cards doesn't appeal to me. I discarded numerous methods using such stacks, and I've been using ONE card for years now, natural selection over countless performances finally making of A.N. my peek of choice.

However I am confident that this is good. I will buy it, upon recommendation of Warren THACKERAY and Madison HAGLER, who both get my trust and respect.

It IS pricey, but quality has a cost, and I am expecting this to deliver.


Love, always


Phedon
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 28, 2018 01:06PM)
[quote]On Aug 27, 2018, Stunninger wrote:


I've decided to sell off my collection of peek wallets now. [/quote]

Exactly. There really isn't any reason to own one when you've got this. It isn't some super duper new amazing secret - just a nicely choreographed, quiet little workhorse that is so easy to do that it lets you just focus on presentation - and offers a lot of versatility there too.

Matthew, I'd love to see what you've come up with - especially as it seems clear that you have become fond of Underhanded once you got the cards out and worked through the procedure a few times. It really is something that you just fall in love with as you work with it.

Phedon, sounds great!

All the best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 28, 2018 02:43PM)
Hallelujah. An effect that does away with “he’s using a trick wallet’ routine. Thank you Atlas. Everyone do me a favour and do not buy any of Stunningers peek wallets. Buy this instead. No one will be looking this up on YouTube.
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Aug 29, 2018 01:26PM)
[quote]On Aug 28, 2018, pegasus wrote:
Hallelujah. An effect that does away with “he’s using a trick wallet’ routine. Thank you Atlas. Everyone do me a favour and do not buy any of Stunningers peek wallets. Buy this instead. No one will be looking this up on YouTube. [/quote]

Thanks very much Pegasus! I know you have exacting standards, so I do appreciate such a kind comment. Though I do hope Stunninger can sell his wallets :)

All the best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Aug 29, 2018 02:02PM)
I have to agree with Pegasus. Anyone would be much better off buying underhanded than a peek wallet. I've decided to hold off selling my collection for now, anyway, just because I'm way too busy. But I will sell them off eventually.

Cannot tell you how much I am loving underhanded. Everything about it works so well. So incredibly well thought through. Every last detail.

As much as I loved wallets in the past, I didn't like carrying something expensive and gimmicked. I didn't like expensive because expensive props do get lost, go missing, need to be replaced, etc. Didn't like gimmicked because if you perform enough, some people will grab the wallet or ask "can I see the wallet?" after the effect. I know, I know, asking to see the wallet shouldn't be an issue "with proper audience management" but some will ask, and others will think it - even if they don't verbalize it.

These issues, and so many others are all resolved with Underhanded.

Pure genius.
Message: Posted by: Mr. F (Aug 29, 2018 08:22PM)
LL, I’d love to see what you’ve come up with! Please do share.

Phedon, with Underhanded, the use of a stack is completely natural and justified.

Stunninger and Pegasus, I have the same feelings regarding wallets, pads, etc. I am not adamantly opposed to using gimmicked items, and of course, with proper audience management and routining these items can fly under the radar. However, when you provide an experience that doesn’t align with a person’s preexisting worldview, it is only natural for them to seek answers and understanding. With Underhanded, the participant convinces themselves that everything is fair and above board, and you are truly left beyond reproach.

Thanks,
Josh
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Aug 29, 2018 10:10PM)
Absolutely Josh. To me (now) it’s only performing magic that cannot be back tracked further down the line by visiting YouTube.
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Sep 11, 2018 01:04PM)
I just saw a very nice review on Favebook: "Underhanded is hands down a method and effect you will have infinite returns from."

Lovely comment and it was a pleasure to see such high praise given for Underhanded! Thanks Warren :)

All the best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Sep 15, 2018 08:20AM)
After learning Underhanded I now use it daily. Have not used any of my p@@k wallets since.

Weeks after purchasing Underhanded I'm just as excited about it as the day I got it, but more importantly I'm using every day.

This is one of the best investments I've ever made in my mind reading education.
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Sep 16, 2018 06:34AM)
[quote]On Sep 15, 2018, Stunninger wrote:
After learning Underhanded I now use it daily. Have not used any of my p@@k wallets since.

Weeks after purchasing Underhanded I'm just as excited about it as the day I got it, but more importantly I'm using every day.

This is one of the best investments I've ever made in my mind reading education. [/quote]

Heck of a follow up comment right there. This is exactly how I felt and why I'm so high on Underhanded.

Don't just read it - try it - you'll be a convert.

Stunninger, have you tried the Epic Triple Fail yet?

All the best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Sep 16, 2018 05:16PM)
[quote]On Sep 16, 2018, Atlas wrote:
[quote]On Sep 15, 2018, Stunninger wrote:
After learning Underhanded I now use it daily. Have not used any of my p@@k wallets since.

Weeks after purchasing Underhanded I'm just as excited about it as the day I got it, but more importantly I'm using every day.

This is one of the best investments I've ever made in my mind reading education. [/quote]

Heck of a follow up comment right there. This is exactly how I felt and why I'm so high on Underhanded.

Don't just read it - try it - you'll be a convert.

Stunninger, have you tried the Epic Triple Fail yet?

All the best,

Atlas [/quote]

Atlas, I've not tried Epic Triple Fail yet, and will work on that next.
Message: Posted by: no2ss (Sep 16, 2018 11:28PM)
I recognize this may be totally different, but how does this compare to Lewis Le Val's AOK? Seems similar conceptually, though it sounds like the methods are very different. Curious if anyone has any thoughts on one compared to the other? Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Mr. F (Sep 18, 2018 11:41AM)
No2ss,
Thank you for your interest in Underhanded. It is quite a bit different than AOK. Without going into too much detail, a couple differences worth noting are that Underhanded is more flexible presentationally and requires much less handling of the cards. I hope that helps.

Thanks,
Josh
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Sep 18, 2018 12:53PM)
It's been a while since I have used AOK. I recall AOK is more geared towards multiple spectators/participants and is intended to be used while sitting at a table. You could do AOK standing at a table, but you need a table or flat surface to place the cards on.

Agree with Josh that Underhanded is more flexible and requires less handling. I use Underhanded while standing (no need to be sitting and no need for a table), and it is great for walk-around. Underhanded is also ideal for one-on-one performances, but can also be performed for a group.

With Underhanded, everything occurs right out in the open. No need to drop your hands to your sides, under a table, or anything similar.

I recall really liking AOK when I learned it, but I did stop using it after a while. Underhanded I use daily.
Message: Posted by: videoman (Sep 18, 2018 03:08PM)
Well, I put off buying this for quite some time because in all honesty I felt it was overpriced compared to similar effects on the market. But finally, I could put it off no longer and had to somewhat begrudgingly "bite the bullet". Happily, I discovered that I liked it quite a lot and will certainly use it. So at the end of the day I was glad I took the plunge and that the cost was worth it to me as it will be something I will use and therefore had tremendous value to me. It will replace my current gimmicked stack which is saying a lot.

Something perhaps worth mentioning, that I don't believe has been mentioned before (but at 5 pages it could well be in this thread and I overlooked it) is that the one "move" required in this method can be a tad difficult for some people. Or maybe it's just me. But I've always had a bit of trouble with it or anything remotely like it even outside of magic. It's difficult for me when using playing cards but it is made much worse when trying to use business cards. There is simply no way even if I practiced every day for 10 years I would ever do it consistently with my current business cards.

But I liked the method enough and wanted to use it so I actually bought new business cards which have a quality that is more conducive to doing what is required. This was not a big deal as I buy them online for under $35.00 and I was about due for new ones anyway. I'm certainly not saying that YOU will need to buy new business cards as I highly doubt you will. It's just me. But it was worth it. I have nicer cards now, not only for the this effect but they are nicer in general.

Long story short, this really is an amazing (and amazingly simple) method that I would highly recommend.
Message: Posted by: no2ss (Sep 19, 2018 12:11AM)
Videoman... can you say anything about which kinds of business cards work better for Underhanded? Not trying to fish for the method, but now just curious if my current cards will work to make the "move" easier. And, not knowing the move, not sure if it's one that I have the knack for or one that I curse everyone else for being able to do. ;) So any note on what kinds of cards work better would be useful (also, thanks to Stunninger and Mr. F for the comparisons to AOK -- very useful. I like AOK a lot, but it is true that it's limited mostly to being at a table, and it is better with multiple reveals, though I've used it for one-on-one as well).
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Sep 19, 2018 12:30AM)
Videoman, thanks for your review - I am thrilled to hear your feedback.

No2ss - Somewhat glossy cards work best. Though flat finish cards can work well if you take a moment to rub them against each other so that their natural tendency to grab one another is somewhat negated.

All the best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: no2ss (Sep 19, 2018 12:37AM)
Atlas: thanks. I generally have used blank cards that are in that range of "somewhat glossy" so that should work... Trying to budget my spending, but will put this on the list to pick up at some point hopefully later this year. The reviews do seem great.
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Sep 19, 2018 03:04AM)
I really am glad so many are appreciating Underhanded. It is such a brilliant and effective method and, while I have not ditched certain peek wallets, CT and billet manipulations are (thankfully) for me a thing of the past.

In using Underhanded I have found a very small dab of fanning powder is very effective, especially when using my own non-glossy business cards or plain cards (bought from Rymans in the UK.) This ensures everything goes smoothly, in more ways than one.

Neil
Message: Posted by: Mr. F (Sep 20, 2018 11:26AM)
Videoman,
I too always struggled with the move in question. That is what led to the alternate handling that is discussed in “The P**** P***” section of the book. I find it to be significantly easier and more deceptive. There is also a two-stage handling discussed in that section that eliminates the problem altogether. Feel free to contact me if you need further clarification.

Thanks,
Josh
Message: Posted by: videoman (Sep 23, 2018 01:14AM)
Hey Josh, yes I had overlooked that section. Thanks for pointing it out. Great handling for it.
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Sep 26, 2018 02:45PM)
I have to know - has anyone using Underhanded tried the Epic Triple Fail yet?!?! I have to believe the answer is no, because if anyone had, there'd definitely be some noise here about it!

Seriously - someone let me know how it went down for you.

All the best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Oct 6, 2018 09:22AM)
Still haven't tried the Epic Triple Fail yet, but did re-read that section of the manuscript and will give it a try soon.

Was tempted to buy one of the new peek envelopes released in the last few days (it does look very nice), but was able to resist the temptation thanks to Underhanded. So I continue to save money thanks to my investment in Underhanded.
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Feb 9, 2019 01:20PM)
[quote]On Sep 26, 2018, Atlas wrote:
I have to know - has anyone using Underhanded tried the Epic Triple Fail yet?!?! I have to believe the answer is no, because if anyone had, there'd definitely be some noise here about it!

Seriously - someone let me know how it went down for you.

All the best,

Atlas [/quote]

So I FINALLY tried the EPIC Triple Fail. I guess I was reluctant to fail. But now that I've tried it, there is no turning back. Not only does the Epic Triple Fail pack a wallop, it makes for a much more entertaining experience.

Wonderful thinking here, Atlas.
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Feb 9, 2019 01:26PM)
Oh, and something else worth noting. I had given my spectator the stack of cards to hold while I attempted to re-create her drawing. Instead of holding the stack, she set it down.

After the routine, a few moments went by, and she picked up the stack of cards to find her drawing, which was right in the middle of the stack where it should be.
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Apr 4, 2019 08:59AM)
Recently I discovered that having the spectator write on the glossy side of the double blank business card makes the workings easier, smoother. If you have dry hands you may want to give this a try.

When using a sharpie, no issue having them write on the glossy side.
Message: Posted by: Seth speaks (Apr 4, 2019 01:07PM)
I’ve been using Underhanded a lot since first learning it last year, and I think it is tops! Two things I’ve discovered—it works just fine without having to hand the card to the spec before placing it in the stack... I generally just set it down briefly and then put it back in. Also—I find there is generally no need for the “get ready” when doing the alternative move that folks are saying looks more natural. I do it both ways without much difficulty. Two thumbs up for me!
Message: Posted by: NeilS (Apr 5, 2019 03:40AM)
[quote]On Apr 4, 2019, Seth speaks wrote:
I’ve been using Underhanded a lot since first learning it last year, and I think it is tops! Two things I’ve discovered—it works just fine without having to hand the card to the spec before placing it in the stack... I generally just set it down briefly and then put it back in. Also—I find there is generally no need for the “get ready” when doing the alternative move that folks are saying looks more natural. I do it both ways without much difficulty. Two thumbs up for me! [/quote]

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Underhanded is a real delight and worker.
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Apr 5, 2019 07:50AM)
[quote]On Apr 4, 2019, Seth speaks wrote:
it works just fine without having to hand the card to the spec before placing it in the stack... I generally just set it down briefly and then put it back in. [/quote]

This is a great idea, Seth! Thank you for sharing.
Message: Posted by: Sudo Nimh (Apr 5, 2019 08:45AM)
Or...you could skip the [i]entirely illogical[/i] moment of removing the signed card from the bottom altogether (because it is entirely illogical) by supposedly cutting the stack to center it. After all, if you actually wanted to lose it "for real", that's what you'd do. So simply give the cards a single cut - a "HaLo cut" specifically. It's a [b]genuine[/b] cut, but retains the bottom card in place. Get your peek as you pocket or place the stack of business cards away. Short, fast, and simple... and [i]exactly[/i] what you'd do in real life without any illogical moves. Removing the signed card from bottom to insert it into the center of the stack only a moment later, is not only illogical and time-consuming, but it draws attention to something that should be a "non-moment". Just cut the darn stack of cards and be done with it.
Message: Posted by: Atlas (Apr 7, 2019 12:30PM)
Stunninger - I'm glad you finally tried the Epic Triple Fail! There really isn't any going back once you have - it gets the best reactions!

And I'm glad Seth and NeilS are also enjoying Underhanded!

As far as Sudo's idea, that's a pretty smooth peek! A HaLo cut and glimpse as you pocket. I'll stick with Underhanded, though for the reasons I outlined in my post earlier:


[quote]On Aug 10, 2018, Atlas wrote:
Hi everyone,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts - it was pointed out that it doesn't require any difficult moves, which I view as a definite plus. When I'm performing, I like to leave behind any card moves that belong in the realm of the magician. That's a huge part of why I love this so much!

Now Tom's review was pretty epic itself - thanks Tomas for sharing all your thoughts. You did mention three points that I wanted to give you my thoughts on:

[quote]On Aug 9, 2018, tomd wrote:

It's a solid technique, that will likely do the job for you, no questions. My personal issue with it is that (this is very subjective) the main things it solves are elements I don't care much about solving. Firstly, it's ungimmicked.. if the gimmick is good, and does the job in an incredibly clean way, then I'm carrying it with me wherever I go. Secondly, underhanded is examinable.. if I feel like something needs to be examined by a spectator after the performance, I've failed. It's not really that much of a benefit in my eyes, because nothing is getting examined anyway. Thirdly, you end clean. Well, I kind of want to avoid ever going back to the billet they wrote on anyway, sort of try and present this as a mind to mind thing. Ending clean is irrelevant to me. I ideally want to do away with them writing down anything in the first place, by never mentioning it again... HAVING SAID THIS, objectively, this are benefits. I don't dismiss them out right. Especially point one about gimmicks, it makes it way easier to walk into a room with just pieces of paper.[/quote]

1. Gimmicks - I perform so frequently that when I know how to do something without gimmicks, it really makes it much easier to get ready for and work a gig. There is no preparation, and no LIMIT on the number of times I can present something. If there is a gimmicked way to do something and an ungimmicked way, if the ungimmicked version is just as clean, I will always prefer the latter.

2. Examinable - I fully agree with you. If you've done the job right, nobody should be suspicious or want to look things over. But, on the one hand, knowing that something is examinable ensures that you don't telegraph any nervous energy in relation to the thing you've used. And, on the other hand, at gigs, you find that people are often pretty "handsy" (it is true - I can't tell you how many times big sweaty men have picked me up and kissed me on the cheek in delight) and, as you're coming across as friendly and cheerful, people often feel they have license to just grab things and have a look regardless of what you'd prefer - especially when they are skeptical. In those moments, it is truly a relief that there is nothing to find.

3. Ending Clean - I've got no beef with this statement either, except on a business level. You've given them your business card. You want them to keep that business card. And then you want them to use it! So whenever I use business cards, my aim is always to have that person keep it - otherwise, why use them at all? Any old scrap of paper would do instead. In this situation, when they go back to keep the card, they need to find it where it ought to be. And when they do, you get the chance to gain them as a customer in the future.

So, anyhow, those are my thoughts. On a lot of levels - including as a businessman - Underhanded was the perfect fit and that's part of why Tomas so rightly pointed out my enthusiasm for it.[/quote]



All the best,

Atlas
Message: Posted by: Stunninger (Apr 9, 2019 06:10PM)
I'll stick with Underhanded, too, for those same 3 reasons. Love the freedom of #1, but #2 & #3 make Underhanded as good as I've seen.

Plus, since I've started using Underhanded, I STILL have not bought another wallet!! Tempted a couple of times, but was able to resist the temptation :)
Message: Posted by: Ori Ascher (May 15, 2019 12:02PM)
This p**k actually makes me wanna perform it all the time.
So easy to do, the angles are very easy to manage and the p**k is clear as hell.
The best thing for me, is that you finish super clean.
Recommended.
Message: Posted by: Mr. F (May 19, 2019 06:15AM)
I’m so glad to see people are still enjoying and using Underhanded. I consider myself a much better performer than creator, and the thought of releasing this p**k never even crossed my mind. Underhanded was developed through much real world trial and error to alleviate issues I encountered when using previously available methods. I have used Underhanded literally hundreds of times, and I assure you that, when done correctly, nothing is perceived as illogical.