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Topic: 'Hacked - Wedding and corporate hypnosis' - Stephen Simmons
Message: Posted by: Dr Ross (Aug 10, 2018 08:51AM)
Hi all,

Just come across this. http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/10687

I like that the book is focused on walkaround contexts, as this is mostly how I perform. It has good testimonials and 1 good review so far on the Penguin site. I was wondering if anyone here has this and what their thoughts are?

Cheers,

Ross
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Aug 10, 2018 09:17AM)
Since you are from the UK and a magician, it would likely be up your alley. There appears to be a lot of fake hypnosis and suggestibility stunts more than anything.
Message: Posted by: Djin (Aug 16, 2018 09:19PM)
Dr Ross, have you got it yet? If so, your thoughts?
Message: Posted by: elimagic (Aug 18, 2018 06:09AM)
[quote]On Aug 10, 2018, Mindpro wrote:
Since you are from the UK and a magician, it would likely be up your alley. There appears to be a lot of fake hypnosis and suggestibility stunts more than anything. [/quote]



Mindoro, Just curious as to what stands out as fake to you in the trailer ? Could you elaborate on that, may be helpful.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Aug 18, 2018 07:19AM)
While I don't know the author and have never heard of him, for those experienced in hypnosis it is easy to see from the trailer that is this
"magician's hypnosis." I would bet the farm he is a magician.

It's very Euro style in its presentation of what they have accepted as hypnosis these days. Things being presented as hypnosis are nothing more than suggestibility tests, the routines or examples shown are light suggestibility tests and of course, the magician's favorite "hand being stuck to (anything - table, head, etc.)" It's pseudo (fake or pretend) hypnosis. Even many reviews state the same.

Nothing wrong with it, just that for the uneducated reader who may approach this thinking they will be learning performance hypnosis, it seems a bit misleading.

Don't you think if he actually knew and had real hypnosis footage that it is what he would have put in his demo? I would think you'd feature your best, most appealing, and riveting sample material in your demo that showcases real hypnosis and his legitimacy as an actual hypnotist.

Now really, if you wanted to learn hypnosis would you learn from a magician? Who primarily features pseudo hypnosis?

Maybe to someone uneducated or who doesn't know (magicians), it may look appealing, but to anyone with even a bit of experience you see it for what it is - Euro/UK street hypnosis, done at a wedding or corporate setting. Btw, this would never fly in any corporate settings I've been in or part of in the last 35 years.

I hope that addresses your question.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 18, 2018 08:58AM)
All the footage I saw was of things many performers do before they get to the hypnosis. There is nothing wrong with it and I'm not being critical at all.
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Aug 18, 2018 09:10AM)
Exactly. What many are selling, peddling and unfortunately what many magicians are accepting as hypnosis by these types of products and releases, is all before any formal hypnosis is introduced. It's framed more like "hypno-tricks" rather than an actual learning, working, and understanding of actual hypnosis. As I said, nothing wrong with it, but to imply that "this is hypnosis" or "that this is all there is to being a hypnotist" can be terribly misleading.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 18, 2018 11:04AM)
I look at it more as a performance choice.
Message: Posted by: The Urban Entity (Aug 18, 2018 08:24PM)
While I donít have the product, but do have a fairly good knowledge of hypnosis, exactly what do you feel that hypnosis really is? Iím curious...
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 18, 2018 09:15PM)
These are more "suggestability tests". Many hypnotists will use them to find the best subjects, and to deepen the process.

Once they get to the hallucinations then it is more what people will think of as "hypnosis". (Real or not. Mind you I didn't use the word real)

This as was said is more "hypno tricks" than "trance work". (Personally I am not a fan of the stand up inductions.)

It is simply a different performance style is all. Not wrong, not bad, just different. (In my opinion that is.)
Message: Posted by: Djin (Aug 20, 2018 08:02PM)
The description does use the word "pseudo" at least four times, so it's not mud slinging to or anything of the sort to say it's pseudo hypnosis. That's what he's selling. The authenticity isn't what's in question, what I'd like to know is how entertaining it is. Does it "knock 'm dead" or is it lame?
Message: Posted by: Mindpro (Aug 20, 2018 08:27PM)
Have you ever seen any fake hypnosis "knock 'em dead?"
Message: Posted by: Djin (Aug 20, 2018 09:03PM)
I've seen lousy music sell out stadiums in multiple cities. Does that count?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 20, 2018 09:12PM)
No. Hypnosis is not music.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Aug 21, 2018 10:15AM)
[quote]On Aug 20, 2018, Mindpro wrote:
Have you ever seen any fake hypnosis "knock 'em dead?" [/quote]

Yes. If the performer is entertaining, it is just another tool.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 21, 2018 10:49AM)
You say "if". HAVE you seen it done?

I have seen it done quite effectively, but not sold as "hypnosis". I have seen guys use the 4 chair stunt, the impossible lift and other pseudo stuff quite effectively. BUT often if it is sold as "hypnosis" and people have something to compare it with it will fall flat as a pancake. Because with the word often comes a certain expectation. If you only do the build up and people are waiting for more they are left feeling like they are waiting for the punch line of a joke that never comes. Or waiting for the band you love to play your favorite song and they never get to it.

I say it can be done, just not sold as hypnosis.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Aug 21, 2018 11:01AM)
Ah. Well, I've personally used many 'fake hypnosis' techniques to, as they say, 'knock 'em dead'. But I've never claimed it was hypnosis.

When you say it can't be "sold as hypnosis" - do you mean sold as in sold to the booking agent, or sold as in the audience won't buy that it's real hypnosis?
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 21, 2018 11:53AM)
I'm speaking of selling it to an audience.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Aug 21, 2018 01:21PM)
Heh. I've edited this response so many times trying to word my position clearly without seeming to discount your experience and expertise.

So I'll just put it plain -

My audiences often describe what I do as hypnosis even when I'm not doing (or claiming to do) hypnosis. So my experience is somewhat the opposite of what you're describing - it's sometimes harder for me to sell a routine that's not hypnosis, as not-hypnosis, than it would be to sell a pseudo-hypnotic routine as real.

I do recognize that your audiences and my audiences are probably vastly different, though. I suspect your audiences (Both Danny and Mindpro) are significantly more "hypnosis savvy" than mine are. That could well account for the difference in perception.

So, my personal belief, admittedly only backed by my personal experience, is that anything that's presented with confidence, and which is congruent with what the audience expects from "hypnosis" will be perceived as the real deal by most audiences. As long as they are not trained hypnotists themselves (which means more training/experience than a YouTube video) they will recognize the broad strokes and apply the label that makes sense to them.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 21, 2018 01:47PM)
Yea no.

Audiences come to conclusions based on what they see. You are in control of what they see.

Now I don't think you lose any credibility by not saying it is hypnosis and letting them draw the conclusion to a point. But an audience is not dunb. At some point you cross a line and look like you're simply playing at stuff you can't do.

Now I don't do hypnosis or magic shows for people who do not want to see them. I don't perform casual hypnosis or have a day job until performance works out. I don't approach people on the street or in bars to show I know hypnosis. I'm talking strictly about the performance of hypnosis as stage entertainment for a fee.
Message: Posted by: WitchDocChris (Aug 21, 2018 02:15PM)
The only time I perform for free is at ECSS and special occasions for friends and family. I never do Blaine-style Guerrilla performance. I just don't have as many gigs as you folks.

Anyway. I'm in no way saying you're wrong. I just have a different experience thus far, and I'm totally open to the idea that were I performing in similar situations to you, my opinion would change. For the time being, this is my experience.
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Aug 21, 2018 03:43PM)
Yea after the first thousand shows it tends to change perception.