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Topic: Bottom deal
Message: Posted by: Taylor Haws (Aug 23, 2018 08:39PM)
I Know you you are all probably sick of hearing this but, I have been working on the bottom deal for about eight months now and I think I have settled on a grip and technique that I like. I would like to know what you guys have to say about it.


I've been careful to shoot it from multiple angles including from close up. I have also made sure to include stud and sail bottoms. please tell me what you think.
Message: Posted by: Cagliostro (Aug 23, 2018 09:12PM)
You evidently have put in considerable time to perfect your bottom deal and have improved greatly.

I think the move looks very good. If I had any objection at all it would be the fact that you seem to "miss" on your take of the bottom card and also top card from time to time. I would work on improving that because it detracts from you otherwise excellent execution.

Aside from that, the move looks very good.
Message: Posted by: Taylor Haws (Aug 24, 2018 01:08PM)
Thanks Cagliostro
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Aug 24, 2018 08:01PM)
I for one am glad that you included the "flaws" in your video. It enables me to make an accurate assessment. All too often I'm sent videos of some move and the guy just filmed it until he got a good take and sent that along with a question like, "How am I doing with move X?"

This is like sending a batting coach a video of all your home runs and asking him for help with your swing. Meanwhile, you neglected to send him all of the strikeouts and foul balls you hit.

The only way to properly assess a move is with an unedited video, flaws and all. Well done in that regard.

Cag is right - work on reducing your miss frequency. To do this, I'd recommend working on relaxing your left hand as much as possible after performing any loosening actions that you're using.

Message: Posted by: Taylor Haws (Aug 25, 2018 04:35PM)
Thanks Jason, other than the studs, its a strike bottom deal so I suppose that that means that I will simply have to relax my hand constantly?
Message: Posted by: JasonEngland (Aug 25, 2018 08:08PM)
If it's a pure strike then I would [i]add[/i] a loosening action. Doesn't have to be a large one - in fact, a tiny squeeze and then relaxation that moves the bottom card a fraction of an inch to the right might be all you need.

Message: Posted by: Taylor Haws (Aug 26, 2018 05:48PM)
Thanks Jason.
Message: Posted by: Thomas Gilroy (Aug 30, 2018 07:07AM)
Hi Taylor,

I think your strike bottom looks great. Your looks very natural to me and there's very little finger movement. Excepting the misses, I think it's an excellent bottom deal.

There's some pretty noticeable finger movement on some of the push-off stud bottoms, and not so much on others. Maybe you could make that a little more consistent?

I practice a strike deal from a similar grip. For me, this deal requires that the cards be in good condition, but I rarely miss. With heavily used deck, a small packet of cards will often come away with the bottom card during the strike take. Do you experience the same problem, or would this just increase your miss rate further? If you're missing more, I think this would indicate that your default grip is probably a little too tight, while mine is probably a little too loose. A gentle loosening action like Jason advocates solves my problem most of the time. A very slight squeeze with my middle finger buckles the bottom card and then relaxes again as the taking hand makes contact.

Also, when dealing to yourself, you deal the card into your pile quickly and with an audible snap. You do this with both tops and bottoms. I think you're probably doing this to give yourself an accent to internalize your rhythm, but it's very noticeable to me.

Consider the deal you begin at 1:43, the five handed with the bottoms dealt to yourself. You miss on the first round, but on the later rounds, I hear the rhythmic pattern

(ta)-(ta)-(ta)-(ta)-(TA KA DI)

where the number of syllables indicates the number of percussive sounds I hear for each card dealt, the capitalization indicates an increase in volume.

Maybe nobody else would ever notice this (I'm a musician), but for me it's as noticeable as flashing lights. Even though it doesn't necessarily indicate the bottom deal, it makes me want to want to look at your hands to figure out where those extra beats are coming from. To me, it also highlights when your rhythm slips.

I wouldn't be so fixated on this if the rhythmic pattern were


instead, this would just sound like a regular five count to me. I'm not saying that it ruins the deceptiveness of your false deal or anything like that, nor am I suggesting it's something you need to fix. It's just something I notice.