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Topic: Dealers/Sellers Held Responsible?
Message: Posted by: garyogden1957 (Oct 30, 2018 02:52PM)
Dealers Held Responsible?

There have been a few posts/replies with regards to buyers vs dealers.
We decide to have a browse for the latest effect/trick only to find after watching the trailer video when it arrives on our doorstep it is nothing like what we expected.

We have seen this with a few items "Static Marker" (not static), Tic Tac toe, (you need to be able to stick stickers on squarely).
Self work tricks that require sleight of hand. The list goes on.

A lot of the effects we buy rely on the dealers not copying & pasting everyone else's description for their website.
The main problem is the videos we watch and say "Oh Yes I must Buy That One"!

The videos mainly are cut, edited and falsely showing what you get in your purchase.

Now I am not saying all dealers do this, they simply use the video supplied for the purchase, but I know of some reputable dealers who make their own videos and the buyer can rely on the honesty of the presentation.
These are dealers who produce their own effects and not bought in and sold en mass.

The dealers tell us they are "selling us the secret" and can't send it back if not faulty.
So the buyer has no back up if it is "not as expected".
Surely when you buy something you should get something as you expect it to be or as close as.

If it is self working then it should be. If it doesn't do as the video says then you should be able to send it back?
The times I have bought something and opened it and thought "Oh no".

So what as we the buers are looking for?

An honest description, if it needs sleight of hand the say so. If the video is edited/cut we need to be told.

Lokk at Tic Tac Toe, Static Marker, Cube 3 By Steven Brundage now that was a classic! Toss the cube in the air as done on Britain's Got talent, what a laugh! I opened the package and was so annoyed!

Slide by Steve Cook was another all that messing about to get it to work.

Ash and Ember Magic Ring - the amount of people who have said to me stay away from it.... I went and bought it!

Please all we are asking is to not to give the secret away but to at least give us an honest description before we part with our hard earned cash.
Too many of us have a bottom drawer of tricks that will never see the light of day.

If it wasn't for Magic Cafť & You Tube we would just be throwing money away. Its a good thing we can at least investigate before we buy, but should we have to?

I believe there needs to be a new seller/dealer code for magic tricks, something to protect the buyer in future.
Message: Posted by: Nevets (Oct 30, 2018 03:02PM)
Well said
Message: Posted by: Magic KL (Oct 30, 2018 03:24PM)
Also, they should tell us what "everything is examinable before and after the effect" means!! If something need to be switched, let us know in the ad copy.
Message: Posted by: garyogden1957 (Oct 30, 2018 04:21PM)
[quote]On Oct 30, 2018, Magic KL wrote:
Also, they should tell us what "everything is examinable before and after the effect" means!! If something need to be switched, let us know in the ad copy. [/quote]

Ah Yes I forgot that one, thanks very much. What they mean is ditch it before handing it out.
Message: Posted by: garyogden1957 (Oct 30, 2018 04:22PM)
[quote]On Oct 30, 2018, Nevets wrote:
Well said [/quote]

Thank you.
Message: Posted by: catweazle (Oct 30, 2018 04:46PM)
The buyers should be held responsible, we do tricks, not real magic. when you read the blurb it is only ever the perceived effect, and if you practice, and the environment is right for the effect then it should achieve the effect in the specs mind as described.
ok, so they are not always practical in the real world, read things carefully, watch the videos's - carefully, put your brain to work before you buy, the method will almost always be simple, if not 'ingenious' as we say a lot in magic

perhaps you should think about things a bit more before excitedly buying stuff you see, static marker was a classic, it was clearly stated that there were no electronics, no magnets etc, so how the heck do you think you could give someone an electric shock with it? real magic? some mega new sci fi invention only known to magicians that breaks the laws of physics, all for 20 quid or whatever it was sold for? (and to add, why is that even cool or exciting anyway? electric touch is the best way if you want to do that as there is NOTHING in your hand at all) electric shock pens are sold for less than £3, they are a joke item, not magic.

i tend to only buy things if I think I know how it works, wait for reviews, put the pieces together, if the method seems practical to me, for my standard, then I will buy it, if I think it will be too hard to do, or not practical for me, I wont buy it.
i have and do buy some things I cant work out, and that is the game we are in, we want to know how things work, but always remember this... its a trick, its a trick, its a trick,
there is nothing at all wrong with cube 3, it just takes practice... he did it live on TV....

"Ash and Ember Magic Ring - the amount of people who have said to me stay away from it.... I went and bought it! " who is the fool then? sorry, but you only have yourself to blame don't you??
be realistic, you work hard to earn money I guess, so spend it wisely.

if that sounds harsh, so be it, in time you will learn that what I say is true..
good luck with your next purchase.
Message: Posted by: magicthree (Oct 30, 2018 05:30PM)
I used to own a shop in the 90's. I would demo a trick and if they liked it, they would buy and I would show them the secret. I think it should be the same way when you buy any trick online. You should see an uncut performance of the trick in front of live spectators. If you like what you see and order it then it's yours. It's when the whole trick isn't shown you really don't know what your getting.
Message: Posted by: SleepyMagic (Oct 30, 2018 06:40PM)
[quote]On Oct 30, 2018, magicthree wrote:
I used to own a shop in the 90's. I would demo a trick and if they liked it, they would buy and I would show them the secret. I think it should be the same way when you buy any trick online. You should see an uncut performance of the trick in front of live spectators. If you like what you see and order it then it's yours. It's when the whole trick isn't shown you really don't know what your getting. [/quote]

I agree but there's a problem as many magicians would just backtrack the method and try to make up/ do the trick without buying the product..
Message: Posted by: Dannyflek (Oct 30, 2018 07:17PM)
Well then if you canít do an unedited performance then donít do one at all .
Just do an honest ad copy and let people buy or not buy on the strength of that alone and if a demo means less sales then so be it .
Itís far more honest than an edited contrived one imo :)
Message: Posted by: Last Laugh (Oct 30, 2018 07:28PM)
Most magic shops cannot and do not personally vet every single product they sell. They are retailers. They choose to carry products based on marketing, hype, and potential demand much more than based on an opinion of strength of the product.

Also - differences of opinion are very common in the magic world. It's not always possible for there to be a consensus that a product is bad or good.

I'm not defending misleading marketing, but it's much more realistic to read and write reviews about particular products and creators [i]before[/i] buying than it is to try and hold the retailers accountable for something they might not even have anything to do with.

And, as disappointing as it is to buy a product and then realize they left an important part out of the demo video, it is not at all the same as watching it live in a magic store. You can't ask the demo guy at the magic store to repeat an effect 25 times while you try and figure it out. That is a very big difference. And people are much less likely to buy an effect once they figure out how it works. It's just not fair to compare internet stores with brick and mortar ones.
Message: Posted by: Jack Straw (Oct 30, 2018 07:30PM)
I'll be the mouthpiece for all of the creators and sellers here who need your money to live and say, "Sure, we'll do that for you nice folks".

Consider it done.
Message: Posted by: Tim Cavendish (Oct 30, 2018 09:21PM)
Learn patience and wait for reviews.

Buy a subscription to Genii magazine (just $35 for the digital edition) and read professional reviews.

Or try to sift and winnow the wheat from the chaff, and read reviews here...
Message: Posted by: no2ss (Oct 30, 2018 11:48PM)
I do think that there are some misleading ads, but I've certainly found that if you wait long enough here at the Cafť, the truth will out fairly quickly on things like that.

Separately, when it comes to gimmicks, I actually think that there may be real *value* in revealing the secret to prospective buyers (doesn't mean totally making it open, but coming up with some method to let prospective buyers see what it was). I understand the many arguments against this, but in many cases, when there's a gimmick involved that can't be easily constructed by oneself, seeing exactly what it is could convince more people it's worth buying. For example, you mention Static Marker, and someone in that thread very briefly had linked to an unprotected video explaining what it did... and that helped sell it for me, because once I really knew what was behind it, I was much more willing to plunk down my money to get one. I recognize that doesn't apply to all (or even most?) effects, but certainly for some, in some scenarios, letting prospective buyers know what it is they *truly* are getting could be beneficial.
Message: Posted by: Ustaad (Oct 31, 2018 03:14AM)
After getting burnt once, I have never pre-order any magic item. Most of my purchase are made only after reading an honest review and/or gaining reliable info. So the key word is ---> [b]Wait - Watch - Act[/b] ;)

:xmas:
Message: Posted by: rowdymagi5 (Oct 31, 2018 04:48AM)
My favorite false advertisement is the ones where they say it is fully examinable. Only to find out later, it is fully examinable.... after a switch!
Message: Posted by: pegasus (Oct 31, 2018 04:53AM)
Take every magic advertisement as complete BS until you here otherwise, on here, from members who frequent this forum often, not the members just here to bump their, or someone elseís product. We all know who they are. Sage advice from Ustaad.
Message: Posted by: Nevets (Oct 31, 2018 05:25AM)
My approach, and it works for me, is to wait at least 3 weeks after official launch before deciding to buy. Has saved me much $.
Message: Posted by: markhitton (Oct 31, 2018 08:34AM)
[quote]On Oct 31, 2018, Ustaad wrote:
After getting burnt once, I have never pre-order any magic item. Most of my purchase are made only after reading an honest review and/or gaining reliable info. So the key word is ---> [b]Wait - Watch - Act[/b] ;)

:xmas: [/quote]


yes and burnt often by misleading ad.
now I try to be less impulsive buyer
😶
Message: Posted by: garyogden1957 (Oct 31, 2018 12:09PM)
I agree that is what I have started to do. I still think we need to organise something to make sellers take notice?
Message: Posted by: Tom G (Oct 31, 2018 08:55PM)
Well number one, I don't put any value to "big name" endorsements, they are usually bull. As for reviews, the "first wave" seem to be the people that receives the product first and can't wait to post a review. I wait for the "second wave", people who have had the effect for a while and can give a more rounded opinion. With all the version 2's and 3's that come out, on many effects, maybe the producer should really road test it for a while instead of rushing it to market.
Message: Posted by: barts185 (Nov 1, 2018 12:08AM)
I know I posted this recently in another thread, but it seems appropriate here:


[youtube]-SpdH0XXVbI[/youtube]
Message: Posted by: garyogden1957 (Nov 16, 2018 03:46AM)
Amazing video/performance this guy tells it like I was trying to explain earlier in this thread. If it seems to good to be true.....
Message: Posted by: kardistic (Dec 26, 2018 02:54PM)
The main problem is that the dealers/creators are always talking about the pros only and doesn't mention the cons at all.

that's the reason why we are disappointed, because we usually find out the cons when we get the effect.
Message: Posted by: Firestorm60 (Nov 6, 2019 10:49AM)
I usually wait now until a convention takes place firstly to support them but secondly I like to see the item demonstrated. I have learnt
The hard way