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Topic: New Helder Guimaraes Book - "Secret Language" - Pre-Order
Message: Posted by: Maxyedid (Dec 16, 2018 02:32PM)
Https://www.secretlanguage.com/
Message: Posted by: Wordsworth (Dec 16, 2018 03:03PM)
Ah god. I'm going to have sell the OTHER kidney to get this one. There really seems to be some great books coming out lately.
Message: Posted by: Daren (Dec 16, 2018 03:04PM)
Pre ordered!!!
Message: Posted by: Tim Cavendish (Dec 16, 2018 07:19PM)
How did you feel about signing a contract to limit your rights to perform what you're buying?
Message: Posted by: Wordsworth (Dec 16, 2018 07:46PM)
I pre-ordered too.
Message: Posted by: Maxyedid (Dec 16, 2018 08:34PM)
$99

Please remind Helder to send me one copy as a comission, thanks.
Message: Posted by: TimothyMa (Dec 16, 2018 08:58PM)
[quote]On Dec 16, 2018, Tim Cavendish wrote:
How did you feel about signing a contract to limit your rights to perform what you're buying? [/quote]
Red Mirror😭
Message: Posted by: Rachmaninov (Jan 5, 2019 02:11PM)
You just adapt the material to your style, changing little things here and there (sometimes changing a lot), and itís not the exact same thing anymore, so free from rights. If you disagree with that, Helder would not be able to publish his material as totally hisÖ I mean almost everything which is published now is derivative.
Message: Posted by: Wordsworth (Jan 13, 2019 10:52AM)
Does anyone have any information about a release date on this one?
Message: Posted by: ekins (Jan 15, 2019 03:17PM)
From the website it says, "Expected to start shipping in May 2019."
Message: Posted by: Steven Leung (Jan 15, 2019 08:01PM)
[quote]On Dec 17, 2018, TimothyMa wrote:
[quote]On Dec 16, 2018, Tim Cavendish wrote:
How did you feel about signing a contract to limit your rights to perform what you're buying? [/quote]
Red Mirror😭 [/quote]

I remember that, it will be very discourageing to see that again in the new book...
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (May 2, 2019 04:45AM)
Anyone heard anything or got any inside info on when this will ship? Not heard a peep since pre ordering in December
Message: Posted by: Daren (May 2, 2019 11:41AM)
Not heard anything either?? A bit bad not to let everyone know about the publish of the book and whether still on time?
Message: Posted by: BrandonWilliams (May 2, 2019 01:43PM)
Preordered as well and would love to have any update at all since there have been none thus far.
Message: Posted by: rnaviaux (May 3, 2019 01:21PM)
An update has been sent out. At least I received it:)
Message: Posted by: Daren (May 3, 2019 01:28PM)
Yep end of July
Message: Posted by: Wordsworth (May 3, 2019 05:08PM)
Looks like Helder was listening. As much as I want this one now,I'm okay to wait two more months. I hope Helder is as good a mentalist as he is magician, and his prediction is good. Props to him for sharing some goodies with his fans with the announcement too.
Message: Posted by: DrBrewhaha (May 4, 2019 10:29AM)
Is it too late to get in on the pre-order?
Message: Posted by: Wordsworth (May 4, 2019 11:03AM)
Looks like you can still get it. Link is up above in this chain.
Message: Posted by: DrBrewhaha (May 4, 2019 11:18AM)
Got it thanks.
Message: Posted by: ekins (May 4, 2019 11:30AM)
This is the way a seller should treat their customers. They publish an expected delivery date because people want to know when what they're buying will arrive. But for whatever reason, that date is delayed. All they need to do is what Helder has done here; communicate with his customers and be open about what happened. Adding the extra chapter and the PDF is also great customer service but I think just having open and honest communication is the best part. You can read many threads on here where customers are not treated in this way, so I have to say thank you to Helder for the way he does business and treats his customers.

-Brian
Message: Posted by: Wordsworth (May 4, 2019 11:54AM)
I agree. You have to give him marks for respecting his fans. People have handed over a chunk of their money for a product, sight unseen, based on blind trust in the artist. Too many of them take that relationship for granted, and don't show the customers any gratitude or respect. Really, people understand that delays can happen, and are generally okay to wait to get the best book that the author can deliver. Just this simple communication is all it takes to show people that he's still working on it, and knows we're all waiting eagerly.

This is the most I've looked forward to a book in a good long while. For my part, I want him to get it right, not get it out quickly to make a deadline.
Message: Posted by: DrBrewhaha (May 4, 2019 01:30PM)
I wonder if those that just pre-ordered will get the pdf.
Message: Posted by: SmittyWitty (May 4, 2019 04:52PM)
Ordered.
Message: Posted by: Daren (Jul 2, 2019 11:49AM)
Any news on release date? Feels like the longest pre order ever?
Message: Posted by: BrandonWilliams (Jul 2, 2019 01:14PM)
Waiting patiently. An update would be nice since itís supposed to ship this month.
Message: Posted by: Tim Cavendish (Jul 5, 2019 05:36PM)
[quote]On Jul 2, 2019, Daren wrote:
Feels like the longest pre order ever? [/quote]
History lesson:

Pre-orders in excess of $40,000 were taken by Todd Karr/Miracle Factory for Martin Gardner's [i]Impromptu[/i].

Karr didn't publish the book til nearly [b]ten years[/b] had passed.
Message: Posted by: Maxyedid (Jul 5, 2019 05:56PM)
I actually feel bad because I was the one to post the news. Iím sorry.

Holder has been evidently busy with his recent theater Tango show extended run.

I hope (and actually believe) everything will turn out good for everyone

Good luck

PS: Helder owes me a free copy of the book, thatís for sure 😀
Message: Posted by: BrandonWilliams (Jul 6, 2019 01:46AM)
Busy or not, if I took the better part of 100K in advance for a book that was seemingly already written, Iíd find the time to get it printed. Most of us that preordered are outside of the PayPal window to file a dispute, so weíre kind of on the hook short of taking legal action. I respect Helder and his work, but at this point frequent updates with full transparency should be the status quo. My two cents.
Message: Posted by: Daren (Jul 6, 2019 02:55AM)
I did email them yesterday and had a reply where they resent their last update so looking to ship by late July? Letís hope so it has been a long wait!
Message: Posted by: BrandonWilliams (Jul 18, 2019 11:01AM)
Weíre quickly running out of days in July, and still no official update. Youíd think weíd have a firm shipping date by now if they were actually going to ship.
Message: Posted by: Daren (Jul 18, 2019 12:58PM)
Hopefully not too much longer to wait but I agree itís been 7-8 months since we pre ordered be good to get a date for shipment?
Message: Posted by: magic11ryan (Jul 19, 2019 06:09AM)
I trust Helder - he has my respect on every product he put out before
Message: Posted by: DanielChard (Jul 19, 2019 06:30AM)
He sent an email with additional bonuses for delay, which I thought was a nice touch :) heís fairly accessible on Instagram. And did state the end of July, this book will be completely worth the wait.

His material is rock solid!
Message: Posted by: Daren (Jul 23, 2019 03:45PM)
End of September then
Message: Posted by: qkeli (Jul 23, 2019 04:00PM)
I received a newsletter for his Show and answered and I asked information about the release of the book I did preorder, here is the answer I was given

ę†That is a question for Secret Language email, not here.
Update will be send by the end of the month.

Best,
Helder†Ľ

No question about the quality of his work, iím a big fan !!! but first a releasing date that wasnít respected and then this kind of answer, well heís for sure one of the magicians I love but regarding the customer service, he has a lot to learn....you canít give this kind of answer to someone who already paid you a product and whoís waiting....

What do you think ?
Message: Posted by: learachel (Jul 23, 2019 04:10PM)
You have right...
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Jul 23, 2019 04:10PM)
He has sent an email out saying it will be the end of September. I donít personally buy all the excuses and reasons for the delay, but not a lot can be done now. Just have to continue to wait until September now
Message: Posted by: learachel (Jul 23, 2019 04:15PM)
End of septembre? Really .don't have a e mail anymore
Message: Posted by: ash2arani (Jul 23, 2019 04:31PM)
I did not get the email. Very weird!!
Message: Posted by: learachel (Jul 23, 2019 04:36PM)
If is it true,is not a serious guy,sorry
Message: Posted by: BMWGuy (Jul 23, 2019 05:23PM)
Check your spam folders, I found mine in there.

Alex
Message: Posted by: Wordsworth (Jul 23, 2019 07:46PM)
Mine went straight to spam also. Glad I always keep an eye on that. The bonus looks good. Does anyone know where these were published previously?
Message: Posted by: Featherly (Jul 23, 2019 07:58PM)
[quote]On Jul 23, 2019, BMWGuy wrote:
Check your spam folders, I found mine in there.

Alex [/quote]

Also found mine in the spam folder. Bonus material seems great at a glance.
Message: Posted by: BrandonWilliams (Jul 23, 2019 09:29PM)
Got the same email. Weíll see what happens at the end of September...
Message: Posted by: Daren (Sep 14, 2019 01:44AM)
Has anyone heard anymore at all? Must be the longest pre order, 9 months and counting
Message: Posted by: learachel (Sep 14, 2019 03:17AM)
Nothing !
Message: Posted by: silbo (Sep 14, 2019 08:57AM)
[quote]On Sep 14, 2019, Daren wrote:
Has anyone heard anymore at all? Must be the longest pre order, 9 months and counting [/quote]
Not nearly as long as Miracle Factory's version of Gardner's 'Impromptu' or Mark Elsdon's ill-fated 'Mentalism Reveals 3'
They took years - but to be fair, delivered... eventually...
The 'Secret Language' delay is nothing - remember... "Patience is a virtue" and it will undoubtedly be worth the wait!
Message: Posted by: Daren (Sep 17, 2019 10:47AM)
I asked Helder for an update this was his response
We are trying our best to have the best possible quality on everything. So, it maybe a little bit after end of September. But if you want, I can return the money of your pre-order. No worries on that. If not, just understand that nobody is delaying it on purpose, we are all doing our best.
Message: Posted by: learachel (Sep 18, 2019 06:18AM)
Nice answer , very commercial!
Message: Posted by: tenchu (Sep 18, 2019 08:43AM)
Well, stuff like that happens. Unfortunately.

(My printing company butchered my recent order. They did the first printing perfectly and fast, but they've completely messed up the second printing after a long wait.)

I'm sure the book will be great once it's released.

Mike
Message: Posted by: Wordsworth (Sep 30, 2019 04:32PM)
Looks like he's confirmed printing, and preparing for shipping. That's good news. I'm really looking forward to this one.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Oct 7, 2019 04:45AM)
Certainly will be my last ever pre-order. I understand the concept of pre-ordering, it gives you a good indication of how many may sell and gives you the cash up front to be able to produce the book, however with this needs to be clear and concise updates. Including the email we received last week (which still doesn't give a shipping date), we have received 3 emails... for a book that is now 6 months overdue and was ordered in December last year. We didn't find out until the month it was meant to ship that there was a delay, surely they knew of this prior. Then the prediction was July... end of July comes again and there was another update saying September. Again, if the books haven't been printed you would know far before the end of July, so let us know. The final update came on the last day of September, saying they are nearly ready to ship, but not saying when they are shipping.

Magic products/companies overall have quite possibly the poorest customer service I have come across. There are many other products and things that I purchase in my life, and the updates I receive are fantastic. Monthly small updates on what is happening and what stage everything is at being completely transparent. For this reason I don't get frustrated or stress over the delay. The frustrating part is the not knowing and lack of answers or openness. Magic companies or producers feel it will cause refunds or unrest if they give bad news, but I would rather something on a regular basis no matter how good or bad the news is.

Anyone who has ordered the new Jerry's Nugget playing cards from the Kickstarter project will actually have seen one positive in a production company. I wish more producers would be more like this. Updates at every stage of the way. As Magicians we shouldn't accept less, or for standards to get as bad as they are overall right now. I see countless pre-orders made and then seeing people getting frustrated.

I am looking forward to this book finally arriving, but I am disappointed in the handling of the order process. Regardless how busy anyone is, it takes less than 5 minutes to send an email
Message: Posted by: learachel (Oct 7, 2019 05:33AM)
AND IT S NOT THE FIRST TIME ...
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 12, 2019 01:56PM)
I feel that Helder has communicated very well with me about the order process and how things are progressing. I have also received lots of free routines that are great. I donít mind waiting for this book because I have a very good feeling it might be pretty good (understatement of the year). Patience is a virtue, virtue is a grace, and grace is a little girl who didnít wash her face Ł Also I think the price is very reasonable. You canít hurry Art. Iím just glad in this internet age where secrets are ***d all over Yoo-Toob that fantastic creators like Helder are still willing to share their Art with us all.
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 12, 2019 01:58PM)
They blanked *** Ł
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 12, 2019 01:59PM)
Hoard but with a W
Message: Posted by: qkeli (Oct 12, 2019 02:40PM)
Christopher, I totally agree with you.... itís really a shame !!! Helder is an incredible artist magician but I canít believe how bad his team is on customer service....hopefully a lot of great artists know also how to handle the customer service...
Message: Posted by: rodrigez (Oct 20, 2019 09:40AM)
Will still take quite some time. Got this answer asking if the book has been shipped:

Not yet! Waiting to receive them from the printer. It will still take a few weeks.
Printing alone is usually a month to get things well done.

Well well...
Message: Posted by: qkeli (Oct 20, 2019 01:08PM)
Itís a joke....
Message: Posted by: learachel (Oct 20, 2019 01:50PM)
One month for the printing? It s a great joke.
Message: Posted by: Daren (Oct 20, 2019 02:18PM)
The last time I mssaged Helder, he told me to be patient! Lmao!!!!!!!!!!!
Message: Posted by: rodrigez (Oct 23, 2019 03:26AM)
Gotta be careful when you write them. After having a conversation of what is unprofessional and what is not (promising multiple release dates and not hold on to them is unprofessional, gotta face the truth) I have been told that I can have a refund at any time. My answer was that I will think about it. Within a few minutes I got two emails, first one telling me that I have been refunded, the other telling me: "You don't need to think, we just sent you your refund." It went back and forth than, explaining that the unasked refund was a gesture, because at no time did they want to abuse my time and money. But at any time I want I can repurchase the book at the original price I paid. They have done that for a few people who reached them complaining about the delay.... I still don't see an unasked refund as a gesture, I don't want other people to think for me or tell me what or what not to think and I am really put off the way this situation was handled.
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 23, 2019 03:35AM)
I donít see why everyone is getting their panties in a twist. Heís producing the best book he can. Would you rather Helder just rushed out a rubbish product? I really donít get it. Heís offered you your money back. Take it if you think heís unprofessional. I personally think it is very professional to want to produce the best product possible for the people who are spending their hard earned money on it. If you have no patience take your money back and stop moaning to everyone.
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Oct 23, 2019 03:43AM)
From everything I have seen and heard, their customer service has been disgraceful. Had it not been for the pre-orders, the book wouldn't even be able to print. Have some respect for the people who have put down a considerable sum of money for a book nearly 12 months ago that was supposedly already written. There is no need for their hostile or 'aggressive' responses. As a consumer we are entitled to ask questions about the product and for some ETA seeing as the customer service team are not very proactive in serving their customers.

I have a large collection of Magic books, as I know many others do. I have pre-ordered a book before, however considering the last update was it was AT the printers ready to go, I've never known a book take a month to 'print'. It feels we are being fed story after story to appease us. Just update us at each stage being honest and none of us would bat an eye lid!

Updates should be:
1.) The book has gone into print today, should take approximately 2 days to print and then will be bound and quality checked (lets be honest, we all know it doesn't take a month, especially as it is meant to be a limited number of books). If you have finally been given a slot for print then that is what gets printed. Not a few pages followed by another book getting printed before a few more can get printed.

2.) The book has completed printing and is ready to be bound. This will take approx 7-10 days

3.) The books have been bound and are now being quality checked. Pending this they will then be packaged ready for sending. This will take approx 5 days however will keep you updated.

You should want to engage and communicate with your customers. Without customers/buyers, businesses are nothing. Maybe I should start my own business offering customer service to specific pre-orders like this!!! If Helder or anyone from his team sees this, I'm sure they will be a little miffed, but its the truth about how we all feel and is VERY easy to solve, just communicate and don't get stroppy when we ask where the product we have paid for is when it's already technically 5-6 months delayed with false updates being sent out as we aren't stupid and know certain things don't take as long as they are.
Message: Posted by: rodrigez (Oct 23, 2019 03:48AM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
I donít see why everyone is getting their panties in a twist. Heís producing the best book he can. Would you rather Helder just rushed out a rubbish product? I really donít get it. Heís offered you your money back. Take it if you think heís unprofessional. I personally think it is very professional to want to produce the best product possible for the people who are spending their hard earned money on it. If you have no patience take your money back and stop moaning to everyone. [/quote]

And you are able to speak for everyone? You are free to express your opinion, but don't tell other people what to do. Reread my post. I did not say he is unprofessional, I said it is unprofessional, meaning the business side. And it is every customers right to ask how things are going. If I want my money back than I would ask for it. So thanks for sharing your opinion too, but please stop telling other people what to do.
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 23, 2019 03:55AM)
ďItĒ is unprofessional? And that does not mean Helder and his team? What exactly does your ďitĒ refer too? A little group of pixies living in a deep dark hole in la la land. I speak for no one but myself. What I speaketh today is that I am happy with Helders customer service. Very happy. Everyone I have had dealings with on his team have been polite and courteous to me and dealt honestly with my concerns. I also say that I think yo all a bunch a whinging beaches Ł
Message: Posted by: learachel (Oct 23, 2019 04:04AM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
I donít see why everyone is getting their panties in a twist. Heís producing the best book he can. Would you rather Helder just rushed out a rubbish product? I really donít get it. Heís offered you your money back. Take it if you think heís unprofessional. I personally think it is very professional to want to produce the best product possible for the people who are spending their hard earned money on it. If you have no patience take your money back and stop moaning to everyone. [/quote]

It's so easy then, I'm a trader, if I tell to my client to be patient and if I'm not on time, believe me, I would not have many customers. We just ask to be respected! If I did not like Helder, I would not have ordered the book. I am patience and I don't want my money back , just respected.
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 23, 2019 04:10AM)
Honestly you all sound like a bunch of babies. I donít respect that. Sorry. I respect you as a person. I respect your right to be annoyed in this situation (I donít understand it). I do not respect your coming onto a public forum and whinging like a little baby because you didnít get what you want when you wanted it. Grow up. Heís doing the best he can. Respect that. Heís said you can have your money back. End of. Take it and stop moaning to me and all the other people who donít care you didnít get what you wanted for Christmas.
Message: Posted by: learachel (Oct 23, 2019 06:31AM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
Honestly you all sound like a bunch of babies. I donít respect that. Sorry. I respect you as a person. I respect your right to be annoyed in this situation (I donít understand it). I do not respect your coming onto a public forum and whinging like a little baby because you didnít get what you want when you wanted it. Grow up. Heís doing the best he can. Respect that. Heís said you can have your money back. End of. Take it and stop moaning to me and all the other people who donít care you didnít get what you wanted for Christmas. [/quote]
who are you to tell me to grow up? we do not know each other ,right ! I can not do anything for you, you do not understand, it's your problem, not mine !
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 23, 2019 07:04AM)
I am really sorry. I know I sound offensive, but I donít mean anything personal about you. Iím sure you are a lovely person. I just donít get all this. Donít see the problem with waiting patiently. If I wasnít happy with waiting, Helder would happily give me my money back and I would lbe happy happy happy to have my money money money. I would personally rather have Helders new book to read and if I have to wait till next June, so be it. Just donít understand all this Bleurgh... sorry. Iím not saying you are a whinging little baby. Just that thatís how all this sounds to me. I am sure you are very mature and apologise wholeheartedly if I have upset you.
Message: Posted by: learachel (Oct 23, 2019 07:12AM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
I am really sorry. I know I sound offensive, but I donít mean anything personal about you. Iím sure you are a lovely person. I just donít get all this. Donít see the problem with waiting patiently. If I wasnít happy with waiting, Helder would happily give me my money back and I would lbe happy happy happy to have my money money money. I would personally rather have Helders new book to read and if I have to wait till next June, so be it. Just donít understand all this Bleurgh... sorry. Iím not saying you are a whinging little baby. Just that thatís how all this sounds to me. I am sure you are very mature and apologise wholeheartedly if I have upset you. [/quote]

thank you , your are gentleman ;-)
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 23, 2019 07:13AM)
Only at the weekends Ł
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Oct 23, 2019 08:35AM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
I donít see why everyone is getting their panties in a twist. Heís producing the best book he can. Would you rather Helder just rushed out a rubbish product? I really donít get it. Heís offered you your money back. Take it if you think heís unprofessional. I personally think it is very professional to want to produce the best product possible for the people who are spending their hard earned money on it. If you have no patience take your money back and stop moaning to everyone. [/quote]

Offering a refund after the product has been MASSIVELY delayed with one convenient reason after another as excuses for why it has been delayed for months does not address the problem that hey, customers money have been TIED UP by having pre-ordered the product in the first place. So a chunk of your money has been locked by this pre-order which has gotten delayed for months, you feel that it is wholly acceptable for you to come on here to argue on his behalf telling people to basically stop whining simply because he's offering a refund? A refund that comes months after which you were expecting to receive a product for which over a hundred dollars of ones money has effectively been unusable because it's been tied up to this pre-order nonsense?

Even if one took the refund, how do you account for ones money having been tied up in this for months and how do you explain the lost of leisure or productivity time from having to deal with the vendor over and over again in regards to hey, where the heck is this product that I FULLY PAID FOR months ago? It's not about patience, it's about having been provided with not a lot of information as to why the vendor has ones money for months with no product in sight.

[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
Honestly you all sound like a bunch of babies. I donít respect that. Sorry. I respect you as a person. I respect your right to be annoyed in this situation (I donít understand it). I do not respect your coming onto a public forum and whinging like a little baby because you didnít get what you want when you wanted it. Grow up. Heís doing the best he can. Respect that. Heís said you can have your money back. End of. Take it and stop moaning to me and all the other people who donít care you didnít get what you wanted for Christmas. [/quote]


You don't respect others as a person or their rights to be annoyed since your post started off with calling every disgruntled customer babies. You are effectively gaslighting folks on behalf of Helder.
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 23, 2019 08:46AM)
Iím not arguing on anyoneís behalf. I donít know Helder and have no contact with him other than his kind updates on how his book is coming along and when I can expect my copy. I am telling you that I pre ordered the book to make sure I got one of the very limited copies. Pre means pre. I ordered it with the full understanding that the product was not finished yet. I made that decision. If Helder having my money in advance has helped him to make the book even better than he first planned then I consider it an investment. Keep throwing your toys out of the pram if you want. Itís your life. Stop expecting other people to pick them back up again. Iím bored with how this thread is turning out. I for one am looking forward to receiving my copy of what should be a great book if past experience is anything to go by.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Oct 23, 2019 09:54AM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
Iím not arguing on anyoneís behalf. I donít know Helder and have no contact with him other than his kind updates on how his book is coming along and when I can expect my copy. I am telling you that I pre ordered the book to make sure I got one of the very limited copies. Pre means pre. I ordered it with the full understanding that the product was not finished yet. I made that decision. If Helder having my money in advance has helped him to make the book even better than he first planned then I consider it an investment. Keep throwing your toys out of the pram if you want. Itís your life. Stop expecting other people to pick them back up again. Iím bored with how this thread is turning out. I for one am looking forward to receiving my copy of what should be a great book if past experience is anything to go by. [/quote]

Again, you continue to gaslight. Blaming the consumers for the incompetence of the vendor. I'm glad you are happy with your purchase, but you are n=1. With your n=1 you then go on the insult the majority of posters in this thread whom are not satisfied with the quality of customer service they have experienced with their purchase.

"If Helder having my money in advance has helped him to make the book even better than he first planned then I consider it an investment."

Those are your words and it's utter rubbish. It's a book we are talking about here. The book is either mostly finished and should be completed soon or it basically is nowhere near being acceptable as a book to be published and thus you are selling people on something that literally does not exist yet and actually taking their money for something that literally does not exist. The customers of this book are not publishing companies or producers of a piece of media. A film production company will pay money for just a idea because the finished product they are hoping will make them money. They buy the rights to the idea knowing that the finished product will be a product that THEY (the production company) will then SELL and thus make money on. People in this thread are CUSTOMERS of a FINISHED PRODUCT that DOES NOT EXIST YET. You are effectively expecting people to take on the role of producers and the fact that people are well aware that they are CUSTOMERS not PRODUCERS you then turn that around and attempt to insult and shame them for a lack of "patience" when the fact of the matter is that this has not much to do with the question of patience and has everything to do with atrocious customer service.
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 23, 2019 10:08AM)
You are talking to me as if I have something to do with this books production. I am in exactly the same boat as you. I am a customer too. I am very happy with my customer service. I am very happy to wait patiently. If you are not, thatís cool with me. I was just telling you how you all sound to me. Just being honest with you. The truth hurts sometimes. Canít believe how worked up you all are over this. Like I said before I just donít get it. Insult me all you like. Call me names (gaslight) and be rude. I donít care. By the sound of one of the posts above it seems like Helder is happy to refund you your money if you are unhappy. Just take the offer and get on with your life. Iím not trying to question your sanity. Iím just saying Iíve got better things to do than wet my pants about a book being late in production.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Oct 23, 2019 10:19AM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
You are talking to me as if I have something to do with this books production. I am in exactly the same boat as you. I am a customer too. I am very happy with my customer service. I am very happy to wait patiently. If you are not, thatís cool with me. I was just telling you how you all sound to me. Just being honest with you. The truth hurts sometimes. Canít believe how worked up you all are over this. Like I said before I just donít get it. Insult me all you like. Call me names (gaslight) and be rude. I donít care. By the sound of one of the posts above it seems like Helder is happy to refund you your money if you are unhappy. Just take the offer and get on with your life. Iím not trying to question your sanity. Iím just saying Iíve got better things to do than wet my pants about a book being late in production. [/quote]

Gaslighting yet again. Nobody claimed that you had anything to do with the book production or know Helder personally. I've strictly made criticisms on what I'm observing in your posts. You're also using the refund as an excuse and as if this is some kind of grand gesture by Helder for having the incredibly frequent and long delays and apparently bad customer service. You're literally treating the refund option as if that is some sort of grand compensation for wasting the time of customers. A refund is not compensation. A refund should not be seen as a added feature to look forward to. A refund is for services or products which are not delivered in a adequate manner. It's the RIGHT of the customer to receive a refund. You're treating the subject as if the customers should be incredibly gracious that they are able to get a refund. The fact that you are insinuating such a thing effectively makes what you are doing demonstrably gaslighting. It's not a insult, I'm simply using the appropriate terms to describe exactly what you are doing.
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 23, 2019 10:33AM)
Donít you understand how silly you sound. ďItís the RIGHT of the customer to receive a refundĒ. Exactly. Take the refund and get off my back.
Iím sorry if I offend you, but to be quite frank, you offend me. It seems to me you have 2 options.

1. Take your refund.

2. Wait for the book to be released then read it.

I choose option number 2. What you do is up to you. Peace.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Oct 23, 2019 10:51AM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
Donít you understand how silly you sound. ďItís the RIGHT of the customer to receive a refundĒ. Exactly. Take the refund and get off my back.
Iím sorry if I offend you, but to be quite frank, you offend me. It seems to me you have 2 options.

1. Take your refund.

2. Wait for the book to be released then read it.

I choose option number 2. What you do is up to you. Peace. [/quote]

LoL. There you go again, gaslighting. LOL.

Stop posting on here and you can avoid being called out on your nonsense then :D
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 23, 2019 11:05AM)
One Final Post Ł

I am very happy with the customer service I have received from Helder. I am as frustrated as everyone else about not being able to read the book yet, but I honestly feel Helder has been really good in letting me know about delays and in compensating me with free routines. To be quite honest and open myself I understand that some of my posts were over the top and more than a little rude. I have a very bad sense of humour. I apologise. I still stand by my original statements. They are how I feel about this thread but I should have found a more polite way of expressing myself. Like I say, I am sorry if I offended anyone.

All the best x
Message: Posted by: Daren (Oct 23, 2019 01:08PM)
I asked Secret Language that I think it would be a good idea for Helder to maybe post something here to keep the peace etc, their response was ĎThanks for letting us know.
We will focus our time in getting the best possible quality book insteadí
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 23, 2019 01:11PM)
Cool. Canít wait.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Oct 23, 2019 02:19PM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, Daren wrote:
I asked Secret Language that I think it would be a good idea for Helder to maybe post something here to keep the peace etc, their response was ĎThanks for letting us know.
We will focus our time in getting the best possible quality book insteadí [/quote]

That's hilarious. I like Helder and his work as well and this release if it ever materializes will likely be excellent in the material it contains. The responses that you and some others have posted on here that you've received from them however is hilarious as in I don't know if they are just arrogant or if there's likely a lost in translation when they respond in English when they are not native English speaking and reading/writing folks to begin with.

I mean, you yourself have had this book preordered almost an entire year since the announcement in December of 2018. I recall the ad-copy listed out what would be contained in the book which gives the perception from a customer POV that the book just needs finishing touches and to be physically printed. This would lead any reasonable person to believe that the book is more or less done and just needs edits, layout, and then printing. Seems to me that the more likely scenario here was that not much has been put down on the page to make a book. George R. R. Martin is notorious for being incredibly slow with each of his releases but George R. R. Martin is also not asking for preorders almost a year in advance and listing out what will be in the book, George R. R. Martin is slow because he hasn't really figured out what to put down on the page to begin with.
Message: Posted by: littlethumbtip (Oct 23, 2019 09:25PM)
Moral of this story, people? Donít put your hard earned money down on pre-orders for magic, ever...no matter who the new release is from. Is saving a couple of dollars really worth your frustration at inevitable shipment delays and seemingly disrespectful customer service to boot? Hasnít experience taught us all that itís not a matter of ďIfĒ, but ďWhenĒ that delay will happen? Just buy the ****ed product the day it hits the market and avoid all the uncomfortable mess. Do you really think it will sell out the day itís released, or even before? If you think yes, then I have a bridge to sell you. PM me.

And now your money is tied up and at the whim of Helder and Helderís minions holding all authority over it...and quite conveniently past the timeline for any recourse through PayPal. Not very smart, guys. If you are one of the many thirteen year olds or younger, on this forum, spending your allowance money, then you get a pass on being duped. For all others... Lesson learned? Wanna bet!
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 23, 2019 10:17PM)
I was under the impression Secret Language was only 1000 copies? If the number of my order is anything to go by it pretty much has sold out already. Maybe that has changed? Anyway iím looking forward to reading it. I love Helders thinking on Magic and am very grateful he is sharing his art with me. I know I will learn a lot from this book.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Oct 24, 2019 08:26AM)
[quote]On Oct 23, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
I was under the impression Secret Language was only 1000 copies? If the number of my order is anything to go by it pretty much has sold out already. Maybe that has changed? Anyway iím looking forward to reading it. I love Helders thinking on Magic and am very grateful he is sharing his art with me. I know I will learn a lot from this book. [/quote]

I've never seen it stated anywhere what the book is limited to in regards to number of copies. This is likely because when this book was announced and going on pre-sale almost a year ago now, he/they never thought about these logistics because very likely either he had not started to write or wrote very little of the book and this very much appears to be figure it out as it goes with not more than just knowing which effects you are going to include in the book.

He's still accepting pre-orders for this book. I think the only difference between the initial announcement until now is that the price has gradually increased as the book continues to be delayed. This is the case as of this post as I've just checked the site.
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 24, 2019 09:05AM)
On page one of this thread there is a link to his sales site where it definitely says there will only be 1000 copies. Maybe the pre orders were so many he has changed that now, but my order number was over 900 in April so if there are still only 1000 copies there canít be too many left?
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 24, 2019 09:07AM)
It also says that he has been writing this book for over 10 years.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Oct 24, 2019 01:32PM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
On page one of this thread there is a link to his sales site where it definitely says there will only be 1000 copies. Maybe the pre orders were so many he has changed that now, but my order number was over 900 in April so if there are still only 1000 copies there canít be too many left? [/quote]

Just went back on the site to checked. I see where it says 1000 copies now. I highly doubt that he's sold through the inventory. Magic books actually take quite some time to sell through inventory. Even with hype behind them. There are exceptions but often those exceptions are for books with incredibly tiny print runs (in the 200-300 copies range).

This book when it does come out is probably going to be a great book. I've never been disappointed by his material. The delays on this book though is unfortunate.

[quote]On Oct 24, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
It also says that he has been writing this book for over 10 years. [/quote]

I highly doubt it, but the material he's including is likely to be what he has been working and working on for over 10 years. He just likely have not put pen to page and thus everyone's still waiting. LoL.
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 24, 2019 02:12PM)
The delays in this book are very fortunate indeed because without them we would be getting an inferior product. I trust Helder has been using the time wisely and will be releasing a great book and not a rushed piece of tat. It would be nice if some of the posts on this thread could be a bit more positive about his creative decisions. I for one applaud his professionalism. Having read some of his previous work I am not at all surprised that he is trying to give his customers the best book he possibly can. Canít wait for this brilliant book to be released, and if all goes well it looks like we could have it by the end of November. Happy happy happy Ł
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Oct 24, 2019 02:52PM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
The delays in this book are very fortunate indeed because without them we would be getting an inferior product. I trust Helder has been using the time wisely and will be releasing a great book and not a rushed piece of tat. It would be nice if some of the posts on this thread could be a bit more positive about his creative decisions. I for one applaud his professionalism. Having read some of his previous work I am not at all surprised that he is trying to give his customers the best book he possibly can. Canít wait for this brilliant book to be released, and if all goes well it looks like we could have it by the end of November. Happy happy happy Ł [/quote]

Wow, there you go again, spinning what is most certainly negatives as positives. LoL.

Also, how can anybody be positive about creative decisions when there's absolutely nothing to gauge creativity by since nobody has this book yet? You comment there literally made no sense. All that has transpired thus far is that he has taken the money for pre-orders since December of 2018 and the book still has no real release date nearly a year later. Are you claiming THAT is demonstrably creativity at work? Based on what? Also, how is that a sign of professionalism? Show me examples of where a vendor takes full payment of goods or services and almost a year later has not delivered any goods or services which a customer has paid for and that being an example of professionalism and creativity. Perhaps the creativity and professionalism is that such a feat was actually able to be pulled off without having been sued yet? LoL.
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 24, 2019 04:00PM)
Or maybe you are spinning positives into negatives. I am naturally a positive person. I realise everyone is different, but like I said before, I am very happy it has taken this long if it means we get a better book. If it comes through the post and is a pile of garbage I will probably change my opinion, but I reserve the right to my current opinion and allow you yours. As I also said before I base my opinion of Helder and his artistic creativity on previous work he has put out. I am sorry you find it so difficult to understand such simple language.
Message: Posted by: Magicsquared (Oct 24, 2019 05:22PM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
The delays in this book are very fortunate indeed because without them we would be getting an inferior product. I trust Helder has been using the time wisely and will be releasing a great book and not a rushed piece of tat. It would be nice if some of the posts on this thread could be a bit more positive about his creative decisions. I for one applaud his professionalism. Having read some of his previous work I am not at all surprised that he is trying to give his customers the best book he possibly can. Canít wait for this brilliant book to be released, and if all goes well it looks like we could have it by the end of November. Happy happy happy Ł [/quote]

If it gets delayed another few years, then maybe it will be REALLY good.
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 24, 2019 05:37PM)
Iíve been waiting for a copy of Flamenco for 15 years. Good things take time and money. If Juan asked for 300 quid pre order and gave no date and no guarantee of publication I would be all in with no questions asked if I thought for a second it would help him get it finished.
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Oct 25, 2019 11:01AM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
Or maybe you are spinning positives into negatives. I am naturally a positive person. I realise everyone is different, but like I said before, I am very happy it has taken this long if it means we get a better book. If it comes through the post and is a pile of garbage I will probably change my opinion, but I reserve the right to my current opinion and allow you yours. As I also said before I base my opinion of Helder and his artistic creativity on previous work he has put out. I am sorry you find it so difficult to understand such simple language. [/quote]

Your so positive that you called everybody else babies. That sounds like what a positive person would do, gaslight.
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 25, 2019 12:39PM)
I apologised for that but you seem intent on attacking me. Itís fine. I think you are funny.
Message: Posted by: asherfox (Oct 27, 2019 03:17AM)
[quote]On Oct 24, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
On page one of this thread there is a link to his sales site where it definitely says there will only be 1000 copies. Maybe the pre orders were so many he has changed that now, but my order number was over 900 in April so if there are still only 1000 copies there canít be too many left? [/quote]

I ordered it yesterday and my no. is 980.
Message: Posted by: Daren (Oct 27, 2019 04:23AM)
I hope we hear something soon?
Message: Posted by: stickmondoo (Oct 27, 2019 07:33AM)
Same here. It sounds like here is some great thinking here. I am looking forward to the essays as much as the tricks.
Message: Posted by: qkeli (Oct 27, 2019 03:27PM)
Post Icon Posted: Oct 27, 2019 03:17 am Reply with Quote Report this post to forum moderator 'Like' this post There are no likes for this post.0
Quote:
On Oct 24, 2019, stickmondoo wrote:
On page one of this thread there is a link to his sales site where it definitely says there will only be 1000 copies. Maybe the pre orders were so many he has changed that now, but my order number was over 900 in April so if there are still only 1000 copies there canít be too many left?


I ordered it yesterday and my no. is 980.


On the 8th of january, they were 120 copy left....
Message: Posted by: ricardo carpenter (Oct 28, 2019 03:25PM)
Hope to receive it before Christmas :hmm:

"the limits of my language are the limits of my world " : so true
Message: Posted by: Christopher Williams (Oct 29, 2019 05:20AM)
On 30th September the update was that the book was finally in the printing process... here we are a month later, no update on how the printing went and when shipping is likely to occur. I don't want a refund or anything like that, I just want an update on how the printing has gone and when they are likely to ship. I am fully expecting there to be an email soon saying there has been some form of malfunction with the printers, or the books haven't passed quality standards so they are going to throw them all away and start again etc, perhaps even another chapter added!
Message: Posted by: ricardo carpenter (Oct 29, 2019 01:04PM)
Got an email from Helder.

Forget this year, maybe mid january to the USÖ and when to Europe ?

Seriously ?

It has been a long journey, dixit HelderÖ looks more like A Very Bad Trip.

and what to think of that :
"I promise that with future releases I will not forget this delay and compensate each one of you even further for your patience with it."

Why not compensate NOW ?


First thought : What a joke !

And with the new price : 150$ plus shipping, it would be a bigger benefit for Helder to have refunds. Sorry guys !

Have I been used like a sort of bait?

Difficult no to be paranoid, but above all disapointed

Time to have a walk to calm down

Need time to digest the thing.
Message: Posted by: Wordsworth (Oct 29, 2019 05:23PM)
[quote]On Oct 29, 2019, Christopher Williams wrote:
On 30th September the update was that the book was finally in the printing process... here we are a month later, no update on how the printing went and when shipping is likely to occur. I don't want a refund or anything like that, I just want an update on how the printing has gone and when they are likely to ship. I am fully expecting there to be an email soon saying there has been some form of malfunction with the printers, or the books haven't passed quality standards so they are going to throw them all away and start again etc, perhaps even another chapter added! [/quote]


Think you won the 'open prediction' award on this one. I'm just reading through the details in his email.
Message: Posted by: Wordsworth (Oct 29, 2019 09:32PM)
Guys,

I've reread Helder's email a couple of times, and I have to say I'm okay with the explanation he's shared.

In my day job I work at a large company with some of the top experts in their fields, and have been involved in many projects big and small. And I can say that in EVERY project I have seen, there are always unforeseen delays and complications. I can forgive Helder that he's hit some of those as well, and recognize that he's really just one guy with probably a pretty limited 'staff' and budget behind him to help this process along. It feels like he just got a little over his head on some of this. Personally I bought this book on the strength of his past material, and also to some degree to support him as he continues to create and share his material. And I'm still in his corner now.

Hopefully he can hit the Jan date and we can move on to some more positive dialogue about the book.
Message: Posted by: zuicdr (Oct 29, 2019 10:19PM)
I just send email for updating address, how can I know it has been changed successful or not ?
Message: Posted by: Wordsworth (Oct 30, 2019 07:11AM)
[quote]On Oct 29, 2019, zuicdr wrote:
I just send email for updating address, how can I know it has been changed successful or not ? [/quote]

I'd say give it 4 to 5 days and then follow up. My suspicion is he's probably receiving more feedback about the book this week than in the entire past year combined. So he might not have seen your note yet but will probably get back to you.
Message: Posted by: dyoung (Oct 30, 2019 07:18AM)
Limited budget?! He's taken 1000 x $100 (or thereabouts)... that's not limited funds.


//Dan
Message: Posted by: kissdadookie (Nov 8, 2019 06:38PM)
[quote]On Oct 29, 2019, Wordsworth wrote:
Guys,

I've reread Helder's email a couple of times, and I have to say I'm okay with the explanation he's shared.

In my day job I work at a large company with some of the top experts in their fields, and have been involved in many projects big and small. And I can say that in EVERY project I have seen, there are always unforeseen delays and complications. I can forgive Helder that he's hit some of those as well, and recognize that he's really just one guy with probably a pretty limited 'staff' and budget behind him to help this process along. It feels like he just got a little over his head on some of this. Personally I bought this book on the strength of his past material, and also to some degree to support him as he continues to create and share his material. And I'm still in his corner now.

Hopefully he can hit the Jan date and we can move on to some more positive dialogue about the book. [/quote]

The big question is since this is a book, thereís literally no cost associated out of pocket until the time it goes to the printer, so why collect payment about a year in advance if you donít have any idea when the book will get printed.
Message: Posted by: littlethumbtip (Nov 8, 2019 10:25PM)
Meanwhile, in the ďDavid Regal New Book: Interpreting MagicĒ thread...people are happily reporting receiving their copies in a timely manner and with David Regal himself checking in on the thread to respond personally to any questions that may arise. I was one of the buyers who took a chance when the presale window was momentarily opened for Interpreting Magic. The book is absolutely a delight to read and certainly a labor of love for the writer. Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned here, by those in question, on how to do the entire book selling process right...and how to do it well. Thanks Mr. Regal for your gift of magic and for a job well done.